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Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

MaxPB said:

felix said:

not_on_fire said:

PlatoSaid said:

Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

Jashvina Shah
I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.

You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.

Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.

I'm not lookin for a cheerleader, I can get excited about British success all by myself thank you very much. I'm lookin for commentary, an explanation of what is going on so that I get a fuller appreciation of what is going on. Especially for niche sports that I may not be familiar with.

I suppose that if we get an expert commentator for each niche sporting event we will all complain about BBC overmanning.

frpenkridge said:

MaxPB said:

felix said:

not_on_fire said:

PlatoSaid said:

Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

Jashvina Shah
I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.

You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.

Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.

Frank Skinner, "It's not often one is proud of this country, I think, because that pride in your country, in this country, always sounds a little like borderline fascism".

From the country that did more than anything else to stand up to fascism.

That's basically it: they think patriotism means nationalism, which means racism and being insular,
xenophobic and a bit right-wing. There's also a lot of intellectual (and actual) snobbery in it because it's seen as a disease of the unenlightened working classes.

But, they are wrong: if we'd listened to these numbskulls we'd have, ironically, weaselled out of standing up to Nazi Germany and much else besides.

Alistair said:

MaxPB said:

felix said:

not_on_fire said:

PlatoSaid said:

Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

Jashvina Shah
I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.

You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.

Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.

I'm not lookin for a cheerleader, I can get excited about British success all by myself thank you very much. I'm lookin for commentary, an explanation of what is going on so that I get a fuller appreciation of what is going on. Especially for niche sports that I may not be familiar with.

Well I watched the whole of the gymnastics final last night and I thought the presenters were excellent at explaining the routines, the scoring and the difficulty levels. Obviously they were in favour of Max Whitlock, but I wouldn't expect it to be any other way. They also didn't go out of their way to bash the other gymnasts there, they were just in favour of our boys in the final. Nothing wrong with that.

Gabriel Debenedetti of "Politico" looks at Clinton's struggle to put away Iowa as a swing state :

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/hillary-clinton-iowa-battleground-226890

david_herdson said:

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

David Cameron is the most popular prime minister since Margaret Thatcher according to a new poll for The Times, despite losing the referendum and the controversy over his resignation honours list.

Mr Cameron was rated a “good or great” prime minister by 32 per cent of voters, higher than Tony Blair on 20 per cent, John Major on 14 per cent and Gordon Brown on 9 per cent. He was only outstripped by Mrs Thatcher, who was popular with 43 per cent of voters.

Who are these 43%? I've never met one. Possibly my age and circles I move in.

There are plenty on this site alone - or does that not count as having met us?

Fair point.

Casino_Royale said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.

As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

YouGov

The Tories were on 38 per cent, down 4 percentage points, with Labour on 31 per cent, up 3, Ukip on 13, up 1, and the Lib Dems unchanged on 8 per cent.

31% is a good number for Labour, these days.

Interesting that UKIP seem to have a solid base of 12-13%

One wonders what would move that.

Brexit not turning out to be the panacea for the nation's ills that they think it is?

Although we political "sophisticates" knew the £350m a week for the NHS was rubbish I have seen a couple of pieces recently pointing out how many people believed it and are still expecting it to happen.

Add to the fact that immigration will look unchanged (i.e. nobody going home) and I think by the GE the WWC that won this for Leave are likely to be very disillusioned indeed particularly if the economy has declined as well.

Much as I dislike him there is definitely a chance for a hard left Corbyn party to argue that UKIP and the Tory right lied to them. Won't be enough to win a GE but I expect Labour to get to 30% comfortably.

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.

As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.

I pass the Norman Tebbitt Cricket Test with flying colours.

Despite being Welsh, I support England and whoever happens to be playing Australia.

peter_from_putney said:

There's not much happening betting-wise on the political scene at present and I'm surprised therefore that the likes of Shadsy haven't introduced a market for the share of the vote won by Owen Smith in the forthcoming Labour leadership election, split into 5% bands.
My money would be on him winning 40% - 45% at somewhere around 3/1. How's about it Mr. Shadwick?

He does have that market up.

Well in terms of what share bands Jez will get

Mr. T, you are aware we haven't left yet?

Judging leaving the EU a failure before we've left the EU, let alone had time for new trade deals to be negotiated, might be considered a shade partisan.

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.

As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.

I pass the Norman Tebbitt Cricket Test with flying colours.

Despite being Welsh, I support England and whoever happens to be playing Australia.

Well the England national team is really England and Wales anyway, no Tebbit test for you to pass! Though I have to say, I support England vs India, but I'll support India in any other series.

MaxPB said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.

As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.

I pass the Norman Tebbitt Cricket Test with flying colours.

Despite being Welsh, I support England and whoever happens to be playing Australia.

Well the England national team is really England and Wales anyway, no Tebbit test for you to pass! Though I have to say, I support England vs India, but I'll support India in any other series.

Only 2 Welshman picked in 20 years doesn't make it England and Wales.

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.

As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.

I pass the Norman Tebbitt Cricket Test with flying colours.

Despite being Welsh, I support England and whoever happens to be playing Australia.

Well the England national team is really England and Wales anyway, no Tebbit test for you to pass! Though I have to say, I support England vs India, but I'll support India in any other series.

Only 2 Welshman picked in 20 years doesn't make it England and Wales.

The ECB is the England and Wales Cricket Board, and England play home games in Cardiff. I'm not sure that Wales even have a national cricket team!

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.

As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.

I pass the Norman Tebbitt Cricket Test with flying colours.

Despite being Welsh, I support England and whoever happens to be playing Australia.

Wales is part of England for cricketing purposes, though certainly not for rugby union.

Pulpstar said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.

As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.

I pass the Norman Tebbitt Cricket Test with flying colours.

Despite being Welsh, I support England and whoever happens to be playing Australia.

Wales is part of England for cricketing purposes, though certainly not for rugby union.

If Wales continue to not win a World Cup I can see the Welsh begging to form an England & Wales rugby team.

OllyT said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

felix said:

not_on_fire said:

PlatoSaid said:

Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

Jashvina Shah
I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.

You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.

Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.

Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.

Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.

I Vow To Thee My Country?

"Olympic gold rush sends Britain storming into top ten"

Is today's front page headline in The Times just ever so slightly over the top? After the first five days of competition, following a number of notable failures, part compensated by a couple of pleasant surprises we lie in ninth place, having amassed a grand total of three golds.
I remain confident of my pre-Olympic bet at 10/11 on Team GB winning fewer than 19.5 golds, but it's a bet I'd be happy to lose!

TheScreamingEagles said:

Pulpstar said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.

As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.

I pass the Norman Tebbitt Cricket Test with flying colours.

Despite being Welsh, I support England and whoever happens to be playing Australia.

Wales is part of England for cricketing purposes, though certainly not for rugby union.

If Wales continue to not win a World Cup I can see the Welsh begging to form an England & Wales rugby team.

But when England next get hammered in the Six Nations, which admittedly they haven't for a few years, you'll be begging us to rescue you

Robert Croft said that playing for Glamorgan was his equivalent to playing for Wales and playing for England was his equivalent to playing for the British Lions.

MaxPB said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.

As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.

I pass the Norman Tebbitt Cricket Test with flying colours.

Despite being Welsh, I support England and whoever happens to be playing Australia.

Well the England national team is really England and Wales anyway, no Tebbit test for you to pass! Though I have to say, I support England vs India, but I'll support India in any other series.

It's actually the British Isles. Anyone born in the UK or Ireland automatically qualifies to play for England in cricket.

SouthamObserver said:

MaxPB said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.

As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.

I pass the Norman Tebbitt Cricket Test with flying colours.

Despite being Welsh, I support England and whoever happens to be playing Australia.

Well the England national team is really England and Wales anyway, no Tebbit test for you to pass! Though I have to say, I support England vs India, but I'll support India in any other series.

It's actually the British Isles. Anyone born in the UK or Ireland automatically qualifies to play for England in cricket.

Not Ireland - Joyce and Morgan had to qualify although they could still play for Ireland while they were doing it. Joyce also had to requalify to play for Ireland although I think the process was shortened.

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

OllyT said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

felix said:

not_on_fire said:

PlatoSaid said:

Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

Jashvina Shah
I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.

You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.

Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.

Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.

Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.

I Vow To Thee My Country?

If England ever does have an anthem, I would love it to be 'There'll always be an England'. It's not terribly jingoistic, while at the same time being extremely English and eminently hummable.

If England ever got its own national anthem for sporting events then it would have to be Jerusalem. No other song would get a look in.

NickPalmer said:

For info: Islington North CLP had its advisory leadership vote last night - 73% Corbyn, 27% Smith. There are lots of senior Labour people in the constituency with strong views of their own and I think it's a reasonable Smith showing, but the outcome wasn't in doubt.

Incidentally, I agree with Don that the court judgment today won't make a huge difference either way.

Were you there for the debate about the Jews, Nick?

MaxPB said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

OllyT said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

felix said:

not_on_fire said:

PlatoSaid said:

Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

Jashvina Shah
I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.

You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.

Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.

Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.

Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.

I Vow To Thee My Country?

If England ever does have an anthem, I would love it to be 'There'll always be an England'. It's not terribly jingoistic, while at the same time being extremely English and eminently hummable.

If England ever got its own national anthem for sporting events then it would have to be Jerusalem. No other song would get a look in.

Ah, the famous song which poses four questions in four lines - the answer to all of them being of course 'no'.

It's also a git of a song to play, near-impossible on the piano and phenomenally hard on the organ.

ydoethur said:

If England ever does have an anthem, I would love it to be 'There'll always be an England'. It's not terribly jingoistic, while at the same time being extremely English and eminently hummable.

How about "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life ?". Uplifting, positive, hummable and has sh1t in it, what could be wrong with that ?

OllyT said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

YouGov

The Tories were on 38 per cent, down 4 percentage points, with Labour on 31 per cent, up 3, Ukip on 13, up 1, and the Lib Dems unchanged on 8 per cent.

31% is a good number for Labour, these days.

Interesting that UKIP seem to have a solid base of 12-13%

One wonders what would move that.

Brexit not turning out to be the panacea for the nation's ills that they think it is?

Although we political "sophisticates" knew the £350m a week for the NHS was rubbish I have seen a couple of pieces recently pointing out how many people believed it and are still expecting it to happen.

Add to the fact that immigration will look unchanged (i.e. nobody going home) and I think by the GE the WWC that won this for Leave are likely to be very disillusioned indeed particularly if the economy has declined as well.

Much as I dislike him there is definitely a chance for a hard left Corbyn party to argue that UKIP and the Tory right lied to them. Won't be enough to win a GE but I expect Labour to get to 30% comfortably.

My donations to the Leave campaign totalled one millionth of what we send to the EU every week.

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2m2 minutes ago
LAB down to 26% with TNS - most accurate #EURef pollster
CON 39%, LAB 26%, UKIP 11%, LIB DEM 10%, GRN 7%,

stodge said:

ydoethur said:

If England ever does have an anthem, I would love it to be 'There'll always be an England'. It's not terribly jingoistic, while at the same time being extremely English and eminently hummable.

How about "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life ?". Uplifting, positive, hummable and has sh1t in it, what could be wrong with that ?

An admirable thought, but wouldn't that mean Eric Idle would collect a massive royalty from every sporting event, and even turn up to lead the singing?

A new poll by TNS BMRB shows that 44% of people think Theresa May is a better leader for Britain than Jeremy Corbyn (16%). It also gives the Conservative party a 13 point lead over Labour.

The full voter intention figures are:

CON 39%, LAB 26%, UKIP 11%, LIB DEM 10%, Green 7%, Other 7%
Support for Theresa May is strongest amongst women over 55, with 68% thinking she makes the best leader for Britain and only 9% of this group thinking Jeremy Corbyn would be best.

More than half of those interviewed (54%) said they thought Theresa May is performing well as leader of the Conservative Party. In contrast, over half (51%) of those surveyed said Jeremy Corbyn is not performing in his job as leader of the Labour Party. Indeed, 45% of those who voted for Labour at the last general election say he is performing badly in his role as party leader.

A large number of those interviewed (43%) were uncertain about the future of the Labour party. Only a quarter (24%), think the Labour party can survive its current divisions while a third (33%) believe the Labour Party will split.

Some stuff about Brexit too here

http://www.tnsglobal.co.uk/press-release/may-better-britain-corbyn-tories-have-13pt-lead-over-labour

ydoethur said:

An admirable thought, but wouldn't that mean Eric Idle would collect a massive royalty from every sporting event, and even turn up to lead the singing?

I don't mind Eric Idle leading the singing but only on condition all the other Pythons are there as well and they do the Fish Slapping Dance as an encore.

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

MaxPB said:

thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/chinese-hinkley-backer-is-accused-of-espionage-nrgbq3d6q

"China General Nuclear Power (CGN), a state-owned energy giant, is accused of leading a conspiracy to steal American power industry secrets to speed up the development and production of Chinese reactor technology. Szuhsiung Ho, a senior adviser to CGN, is due in court next week accused of recruiting American experts to obtain sensitive nuclear technology for China in a plot that threatened US security."

The real reason why May has backed out of the Hinkley deal?

Doubt it: i suspect Areva would happily build an EPR in China is asked

Sure, but China have the right to build their own reactor in the UK after Hinkley completes, I'm not sure the Americans would look to kindly on a UK reactor built using stolen designs.

Also, Areva is now part of EDF, the French government nationalised it after the failure to build the EPR in Finland.

Gosh, I am out of date

More seriously, it's a bit of a long way around to steal a reactor design: put up financing for a nuclear power plant in a third country. If they want the plans, I'm fairly sure EDF would licence them to CGN for exclusive use in China for a fraction of the cost of Hinckley Point.

(And it's not like China doesn't have nuclear weapons. They'd basically be getting hold of plans for a nuclear reactor that no one has gotten to work yet. Without any of the original designers. Why bother?)

MaxPB said:

OllyT said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

felix said:

not_on_fire said:

PlatoSaid said:

Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

Jashvina Shah
I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.

You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.

Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.

Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.

Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.

I Vow To Thee My Country?

Not for me. "Land of dope and Tories" is more stirring. I happen to have been born in these islands and I there are a lot worse places to live as well as a lot better. I genuinely can't get excited about patriotism and flag waving either way and if I never saw another picture of "cute" Prince George or Kate Middleton's latest outfit to my dying day I would die happy!

If Bohemiam Rhapsody becomes our anthem I would recommend that sporting teams keep on their tracksuits for the ceremony.

tlg86 said:

DanSmith said:

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2m2 minutes ago
LAB down to 26% with TNS - most accurate #EURef pollster
CON 39%, LAB 26%, UKIP 11%, LIB DEM 10%, GRN 7%,

Lib Dem surge!

I think we will see the LibDems slowly tick up over the course of this parliament.

ydoethur said:

It's also a git of a song to play, near-impossible on the piano and phenomenally hard on the organ.

I've come over all Carry On..

Theuniondivvie said:

ydoethur said:

It's also a git of a song to play, near-impossible on the piano and phenomenally hard on the organ.

I've come over all Carry On..

I realised rather belatedly I could perhaps have phrased it better...

Theuniondivvie said:

ydoethur said:

It's also a git of a song to play, near-impossible on the piano and phenomenally hard on the organ.

I've come over all Carry On..

You're not the only one.

DanSmith said:

tlg86 said:

DanSmith said:

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2m2 minutes ago
LAB down to 26% with TNS - most accurate #EURef pollster
CON 39%, LAB 26%, UKIP 11%, LIB DEM 10%, GRN 7%,

Lib Dem surge!

I think we will see the LibDems slowly tick up over the course of this parliament.

I think the key is the UKIP/LD/Green combined vote has overhauled the Labour vote so perhaps we are seeing a new pattern emerging.

The controlling 35-40% Conservative bloc, a substantial 25-35% Non-Tory, Non-Labour bloc and 25-30% residual Labour.

"The subsidised price for solar is below the meter cost, so people are just putting solar on their roofs and seeing their bills come down sharply. It's a real problem for the utilities, because they are seeing domestic demand collapse."

A bit like the PCs versus the IBM monoliths of yesteryear.

TheScreamingEagles said:

A new poll by TNS BMRB shows that 44% of people think Theresa May is a better leader for Britain than Jeremy Corbyn (16%). It also gives the Conservative party a 13 point lead over Labour.

The full voter intention figures are:

CON 39%, LAB 26%, UKIP 11%, LIB DEM 10%, Green 7%, Other 7%
Support for Theresa May is strongest amongst women over 55, with 68% thinking she makes the best leader for Britain and only 9% of this group thinking Jeremy Corbyn would be best.

More than half of those interviewed (54%) said they thought Theresa May is performing well as leader of the Conservative Party. In contrast, over half (51%) of those surveyed said Jeremy Corbyn is not performing in his job as leader of the Labour Party. Indeed, 45% of those who voted for Labour at the last general election say he is performing badly in his role as party leader.

A large number of those interviewed (43%) were uncertain about the future of the Labour party. Only a quarter (24%), think the Labour party can survive its current divisions while a third (33%) believe the Labour Party will split.

Some stuff about Brexit too here

http://www.tnsglobal.co.uk/press-release/may-better-britain-corbyn-tories-have-13pt-lead-over-labour

The LD+Grn share - some 17% - is particularly notable when set against Labour's declining share. That the Greens have hit 7% without any effort at all (indeed, with Corbyn parking Labour's tanks on the Greens' lawn), shows both the potential Labour support with a competent leader and also the potential for another party of the centre-left to capitalise on the floating oppositionist voters if they don't.

My CLP voted 93 to 25 for Corbyn last night. I was not there as I'm on holiday.

England win the toss and bat.

The Labour peer Lord Falconer, who resigned from Jeremy Corbyn’s shadow cabinet, has said his party must unify after the leadership election or it will “cease to be a proper contender for power”.

Speaking on the Today programme on BBC Radio 4, Falconer, former shadow justice secretary, said the Labour party would have to come together and present a coherent case for government to the public otherwise it would be “incredibly vulnerable”.

His comments come as Labour’s ruling body challenges a high court decision allowing new party members to vote in the forthcoming leadership election, and leadership contender Owen Smith calls for an extension to the leadership campaign.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/11/labour-leadership-vote-dispute-appeal-court

I shocked and stunned that TSE didn't opt for an English national anthem from the "Steps" discography !!

SouthamObserver said:

My CLP voted 93 to 25 for Corbyn last night. I was not there as I'm on holiday.

You could have swung them around SO!! But then you're a dirty Blairite, only Tories go on holiday.

OllyT said:

MaxPB said:

OllyT said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

felix said:

not_on_fire said:

PlatoSaid said:

Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

Jashvina Shah
I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.

You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.

Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.

Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.

Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.

I Vow To Thee My Country?

Not for me. "Land of dope and Tories" is more stirring. I happen to have been born in these islands and I there are a lot worse places to live as well as a lot better. I genuinely can't get excited about patriotism and flag waving either way and if I never saw another picture of "cute" Prince George or Kate Middleton's latest outfit to my dying day I would die happy!

The liberal white embarrassed to be British left. Now I see why you're so scared of Brexit.

Like Mike's source last week, today in The Times, Montie is talking about an (April) 2017 general election, because of the smallness of the majority and the Brexit headbangers

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/may-has-an-open-goal-if-she-calls-an-election-7j9kg9js8

Morris_Dancer said:

Having golf in the Olympics but not jousting is ridiculous.

Next you'll be asking for Morris Dancing!