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  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,129
    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    "The subsidised price for solar is below the meter cost, so people are just putting solar on their roofs and seeing their bills come down sharply. It's a real problem for the utilities, because they are seeing domestic demand collapse."

    A bit like the PCs versus the IBM monoliths of yesteryear.

    That's an excellent analogy that I'm going to steal, if that's OK.
    Phoenix doing a clean-room reverse engineer of the PC BIOS has to be one of the greatest pieces of engineering of all time - certainly in terms of economic impact.
    That's fabulously off topic, buy very true...
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    Land of Hope and Glory?

    Mind you, those wanting to change God Save the Queen from the British anthem can bugger off. Fiddling with the anthem for the sake of inclusivity is Monbiotic moonbattery of the first water.

    God Save The Queen is The UK anthem, I want an English anthem.

    Jerusalem is a bloody dirge, I want something like Bohemian Rhapsody as our national anthem.
    I love Jerusalem. Had it at my wedding.
    Jerusalem was our (Grammar) school song. So mixed feelings.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Max, every morris dancer is a champion - of style and charisma.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,436

    Having golf in the Olympics but not jousting is ridiculous.

    Bring back cannon shooting, I say!
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634

    rcs1000 said:

    "The subsidised price for solar is below the meter cost, so people are just putting solar on their roofs and seeing their bills come down sharply. It's a real problem for the utilities, because they are seeing domestic demand collapse."

    A bit like the PCs versus the IBM monoliths of yesteryear.

    That's an excellent analogy that I'm going to steal, if that's OK.
    Could it be that the British Government have belatedly come to realise that the virtually inexhaustible supply of gas available from fracking, difficult though it may be to sell to the public, is many times cheaper, many times safer and very much more readily available than the 15-20 year time frame, blank cheque prospect involved in building hyper-expensive nuclear plants?
    Also a reactor design that is completely untested. The EPR hasn't been successfully build yet. The Finnish one is now 7 years late and counting.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    I Vow To Thee My Country? :D
    Not for me. "Land of dope and Tories" is more stirring. I happen to have been born in these islands and I there are a lot worse places to live as well as a lot better. I genuinely can't get excited about patriotism and flag waving either way and if I never saw another picture of "cute" Prince George or Kate Middleton's latest outfit to my dying day I would die happy!
    The liberal white embarrassed to be British left. Now I see why you're so scared of Brexit.
    One of the mysteries of modern life is that now, more than ever before, it's easy to find one's optimal country and move there. Especially if you're a Brit, a native speaker of the global lingua franca.

    I could understand people railing against the UK in times past when emigration was difficult and expensive, but now? The world is literally our oyster.

    This isn't a cri de couer of 'if you don't like it here, fuck off', just puzzlement as to why there are more Brits in Oz than all of the EU27. I'll be very interested to see if emigration to Europe rises post-Brexit vote.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634

    Land of Hope and Glory?

    Mind you, those wanting to change God Save the Queen from the British anthem can bugger off. Fiddling with the anthem for the sake of inclusivity is Monbiotic moonbattery of the first water.

    God Save The Queen is The UK anthem, I want an English anthem.

    Jerusalem is a bloody dirge, I want something like Bohemian Rhapsody as our national anthem.
    I love Jerusalem. Had it at my wedding.
    Jerusalem was our (Grammar) school song. So mixed feelings.
    Ours was I Vow To Thee My Country. Jerusalem was saved for founders day.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Herdson, good idea. A real sport, with real cannons, for real men.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,129

    rcs1000 said:

    "The subsidised price for solar is below the meter cost, so people are just putting solar on their roofs and seeing their bills come down sharply. It's a real problem for the utilities, because they are seeing domestic demand collapse."

    A bit like the PCs versus the IBM monoliths of yesteryear.

    That's an excellent analogy that I'm going to steal, if that's OK.
    Could it be that the British Government have belatedly come to realise that the virtually inexhaustible supply of gas available from fracking, difficult though it may be to sell to the public, is many times cheaper, many times safer and very much more readily available than the 15-20 year time frame, blank cheque prospect involved in building hyper-expensive nuclear plants?
    Even better: CCGTs are incredibly flexible, have low capital cost, and can be turned on or off according to whether the sun is shining, out the wind is blowing.
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    ydoethur said:

    Land of Hope and Glory?

    Mind you, those wanting to change God Save the Queen from the British anthem can bugger off. Fiddling with the anthem for the sake of inclusivity is Monbiotic moonbattery of the first water.

    Could hum The Dambusters, whistle the Great Escape tune, or have the RAF band playing the Battle of Britain theme.
    There are some quite good words to The Dambusters, but they are an adaptation of Psalm 46 and therefore not very patriotic in tone unless you read them in an Evangelical Victorian way.

    'Jerusalem the Golden', by contrast, is only ever sung from about verse 5 because the first four verses (added to the medieval hymn in 1861) are absolutely cringe-inducingly jingoistic. They say an awful lot about Victorian religion...
    Interesting. Original Latin by Bernard of Cluny. I didn't know that song, nor that the CofE had a thing about Jerusalem before WW1, when Robert Bridges and Hubert Parry appropriated William Blake's words for a war anthem even before the British army conquered that Arab city in 1917. But if that weren't enough to make Blake turn in his grave, they also took the phrase "THESE dark Satanic mills" - the poem's only non-imperative reference to the present time - and altered it to "THOSE dark Satanic mills", thereby changing the meaning enormously. One can understand why Tories, industrialists and imperialists preferred the new version.

    A true Blakean always sings "THESE"!
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,129
    Coal currently producing next to none of the UK's electricity

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    Having golf in the Olympics but not jousting is ridiculous.

    Bring back cannon shooting, I say!
    What about bouncy castle storming? Make it like "Jeux Sans Frontières".
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,129
    John_M said:



    One of the mysteries of modern life is that now, more than ever before, it's easy to find one's optimal country and move there. Especially if you're a Brit, a native speaker of the global lingua franca.

    I could understand people railing against the UK in times past when emigration was difficult and expensive, but now? The world is literally our oyster.

    This isn't a cri de couer of 'if you don't like it here, fuck off', just puzzlement as to why there are more Brits in Oz than all of the EU27. I'll be very interested to see if emigration to Europe rises post-Brexit vote.

    Weather, the English language, and a booming economy might have something to do with it...
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    The monarchy is massively popular in this country.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. Herdson, good idea. A real sport, with real cannons, for real men.

    With real morris men as targets .... :smiley:
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634
    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:



    One of the mysteries of modern life is that now, more than ever before, it's easy to find one's optimal country and move there. Especially if you're a Brit, a native speaker of the global lingua franca.

    I could understand people railing against the UK in times past when emigration was difficult and expensive, but now? The world is literally our oyster.

    This isn't a cri de couer of 'if you don't like it here, fuck off', just puzzlement as to why there are more Brits in Oz than all of the EU27. I'll be very interested to see if emigration to Europe rises post-Brexit vote.

    Weather, the English language, and a booming economy might have something to do with it...
    And it being Britain in the southern hemisphere as well. To me it was Britain with sunshine, at least the few times I've been.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    "The subsidised price for solar is below the meter cost, so people are just putting solar on their roofs and seeing their bills come down sharply. It's a real problem for the utilities, because they are seeing domestic demand collapse."

    A bit like the PCs versus the IBM monoliths of yesteryear.

    That's an excellent analogy that I'm going to steal, if that's OK.
    Could it be that the British Government have belatedly come to realise that the virtually inexhaustible supply of gas available from fracking, difficult though it may be to sell to the public, is many times cheaper, many times safer and very much more readily available than the 15-20 year time frame, blank cheque prospect involved in building hyper-expensive nuclear plants?
    Also a reactor design that is completely untested. The EPR hasn't been successfully build yet. The Finnish one is now 7 years late and counting.
    Crikey .... I'd like to see how the economics of that installation compares with its original plan, always assuming it ever actually functions.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634
    Sean_F said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    The monarchy is massively popular in this country.
    I think the Queen, Will and Kate, and lately Harry are popular. Republicanism had one chance to succeed, they have to hope that Charles doesn't abdicate and proves to be as bad as I fear and they hope.
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    We might get early warning of the likelihood of a snap general election being called if the Conservatives were filling any vacant prospective parliamentary candidate posts.

    Anyone any local evidence of this?

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    rcs1000 said:

    Coal currently producing next to none of the UK's electricity

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

    That's why we no longer have a coal industry ..... it's amazing how things have changed over the past 40 years.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MaxPB said:

    Land of Hope and Glory?

    Mind you, those wanting to change God Save the Queen from the British anthem can bugger off. Fiddling with the anthem for the sake of inclusivity is Monbiotic moonbattery of the first water.

    God Save The Queen is The UK anthem, I want an English anthem.

    Jerusalem is a bloody dirge, I want something like Bohemian Rhapsody as our national anthem.
    I love Jerusalem. Had it at my wedding.
    Jerusalem was our (Grammar) school song. So mixed feelings.
    Ours was I Vow To Thee My Country. Jerusalem was saved for founders day.
    Clarior Ex Obscura
    Floreat Etona
    Jolly Boating Weather
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Chocks away at the Oval ....
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,328
    Dromedary said:

    Having golf in the Olympics but not jousting is ridiculous.

    Bring back cannon shooting, I say!
    What about bouncy castle storming? Make it like "Jeux Sans Frontières".
    The UK has exhausted (I hope) its supplies of paedo presenters necessary to host such events. Plus its Euro-ness may not be quite à la mode.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    John_M said:

    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    I Vow To Thee My Country? :D
    The liberal white embarrassed to be British left. Now I see why you're so scared of Brexit.
    One of the mysteries of modern life is that now, more than ever before, it's easy to find one's optimal country and move there. Especially if you're a Brit, a native speaker of the global lingua franca.

    I could understand people railing against the UK in times past when emigration was difficult and expensive, but now? The world is literally our oyster.

    This isn't a cri de couer of 'if you don't like it here, fuck off', just puzzlement as to why there are more Brits in Oz than all of the EU27. I'll be very interested to see if emigration to Europe rises post-Brexit vote.
    There are not many better countries to live in the UK, and there are a lot that are worse. I expect that privately most people who rail against the UK know that, which is why they stay.
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    Dromedary said:

    Having golf in the Olympics but not jousting is ridiculous.

    Bring back cannon shooting, I say!
    What about bouncy castle storming? Make it like "Jeux Sans Frontières".
    We'll have none of that Frenchy talk here please.

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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,694
    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    I Vow To Thee My Country? :D
    Not for me. "Land of dope and Tories" is more stirring. I happen to have been born in these islands and I there are a lot worse places to live as well as a lot better. I genuinely can't get excited about patriotism and flag waving either way and if I never saw another picture of "cute" Prince George or Kate Middleton's latest outfit to my dying day I would die happy!
    Why don't you go and live in one of your better countries then?
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    Sean_F said:

    The monarchy is massively popular in this country.

    Indeed. Of course it is, in a country where downward pointing class contempt is so strong. It was the monarchy that won the vote for Brexit. The front page of the Sun the day before the referendum:

    image

    That built on this:

    image


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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,903

    Labour's 26% today is their party's lowest vote share in opposition since September 1983.

    If memory serves, the Conservatives managed some impressively low shares in opposition from 1997-99.

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    Even the Edinburgh tattoo has dropped disembling and reassembling a canon after carrying the parts through a wall before firing it.

    We will be out of practice.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,694

    Land of Hope and Glory?

    Mind you, those wanting to change God Save the Queen from the British anthem can bugger off. Fiddling with the anthem for the sake of inclusivity is Monbiotic moonbattery of the first water.

    God Save The Queen is The UK anthem, I want an English anthem.

    Jerusalem is a bloody dirge, I want something like Bohemian Rhapsody as our national anthem.
    I love Jerusalem. Had it at my wedding.
    As a regular England cricket watcher, they play it before each day's play, it does nothing for me, I guess a song that laments the industrial revolution is not for me.
    I get misty eyed about our green and pleasant land. As a country boy I find it moving and stirring.

    Clearly, the Austrian national anthem should be by Ultravox
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088

    Even the Edinburgh tattoo has dropped disembling and reassembling a canon after carrying the parts through a wall before firing it.

    We will be out of practice.

    A canon??????
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    Dromedary said:

    Sean_F said:

    The monarchy is massively popular in this country.

    Indeed. Of course it is, in a country where downward pointing class contempt is so strong. It was the monarchy that won the vote for Brexit. The front page of the Sun the day before the referendum:

    image

    That built on this:

    image


    I think that did help Brexit.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    rcs1000 said:

    Coal currently producing next to none of the UK's electricity

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

    That's why we no longer have a coal industry ..... it's amazing how things have changed over the past 40 years.
    But the pits! miners! Thatcher!
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    Europe was a lot simpler when Gennaro Olivieri and Guido Pancaldi decided all the rules.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    rcs1000 said:

    Coal currently producing next to none of the UK's electricity

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

    Pinched that for a tweet. The contrast is that in 1913 UK coal production peaked at 287 million tons. Amazing what a difference a century can make. Oh, and nice weather as well!
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Dromedary said:

    Having golf in the Olympics but not jousting is ridiculous.

    Bring back cannon shooting, I say!
    What about bouncy castle storming? Make it like "Jeux Sans Frontières".
    We'll have none of that Frenchy talk here please.

    That we called it It's A Knockout - rather than the poncy Games Without Frontiers always makes me :lol:
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    MaxPB said:

    Land of Hope and Glory?

    Mind you, those wanting to change God Save the Queen from the British anthem can bugger off. Fiddling with the anthem for the sake of inclusivity is Monbiotic moonbattery of the first water.

    God Save The Queen is The UK anthem, I want an English anthem.

    Jerusalem is a bloody dirge, I want something like Bohemian Rhapsody as our national anthem.
    I love Jerusalem. Had it at my wedding.
    Jerusalem was our (Grammar) school song. So mixed feelings.
    Ours was I Vow To Thee My Country. Jerusalem was saved for founders day.
    You've forced me to put the Planets Suite on. Love that melody.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    I Vow To Thee My Country? :D
    If England ever does have an anthem, I would love it to be 'There'll always be an England'. It's not terribly jingoistic, while at the same time being extremely English and eminently hummable.
    That's not saying very much - there'll always be a North Pole, if some dangerous clown doesn't melt it. (M. Flanders)
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Who ate all the pies at the cricket .... the Oval Mike Gatting !! .. :smile:
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,328
    edited August 2016

    Even the Edinburgh tattoo has dropped disembling and reassembling a canon after carrying the parts through a wall before firing it.

    We will be out of practice.

    A canon??????
    The anti-clerical strain in Scottish society can get a bit overheated..
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,436
    Dromedary said:

    Having golf in the Olympics but not jousting is ridiculous.

    Bring back cannon shooting, I say!
    What about bouncy castle storming? Make it like "Jeux Sans Frontières".
    You jest (but not joust). Cannon shooting was a real Olympic (demonstration) sport in 1900:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_shooting_at_the_1900_Summer_Olympics

    France won, being the only country taking part.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    That TNS poll is horrendous for Labour. It would produce 361 Conservative seats to 198 for Labour, according to Electoral Calculus.

    In terms of vote share, it would be Labour's worst result since 1918.
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    PlatoSaid said:

    Dromedary said:

    Having golf in the Olympics but not jousting is ridiculous.

    Bring back cannon shooting, I say!
    What about bouncy castle storming? Make it like "Jeux Sans Frontières".
    We'll have none of that Frenchy talk here please.

    That we called it It's A Knockout - rather than the poncy Games Without Frontiers always makes me :lol:
    If looks could kill they probably will
    In games without frontiers :grin:
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,139
    MaxPB said:

    Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

    Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

    To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

    Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.
    As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.


    that is a laugh , given the vitriol and bile on here piled on Scottish people who support Scotland.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,903
    Sean_F said:


    There are not many better countries to live in the UK, and there are a lot that are worse. I expect that privately most people who rail against the UK know that, which is why they stay.

    Indeed and while I consider myself fortunate to have born British, Mrs Stodge, who was born in New Zealand, loves her country and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I draw the line at the point where the notion that our country is somehow "superior" to other countries heaves into view. I don't regard myself as "better" than a Frenchman, a German or an Italian who loves their country and wants their sportsmen and women to do well.

    At the same time, I can admire a great sporting performance from someone like Usain Bolt even if he beats British athletes. I suppose it's the line between patriotism and nationalism - I love my country and want it to do well but I understand you love yours and respect you want the best for it.

    I appreciate many countries in the world are badly or poorly governed but that doesn't stop a Libyan, Syrian or Venezuelan loving their country and wanting the best for it - governance and patriotism can and often have to be mutually exclusive. In the same way, you don't have to be a Conservative to be a patriot - as to whether you have to be a patriot to be a Conservative, I'll leave that for others to answer.


  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088

    Even the Edinburgh tattoo has dropped disembling and reassembling a canon after carrying the parts through a wall before firing it.

    We will be out of practice.

    A canon??????
    The anti-clerical strain in Scottish society can get a bit overheated..
    Is it something to do with the Knox’s?
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    BudGBudG Posts: 711


    Clearly, the Austrian national anthem should be by Ultravox

    ??

    It means nothing to me..
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    You jest (but not joust). Cannon shooting was a real Olympic (demonstration) sport in 1900:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_shooting_at_the_1900_Summer_Olympics

    France won, being the only country taking part.

    Rumour has it that Britain wanted to enter a team for the cannon shooting at the 1900 Paris Olympics with HMS Victory sailing up the River Seine .... never happened for some strange reason .... :sunglasses:
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
  • Options
    Michael Crick

    Labour source says TUSC/Socialist Party cands in both the Bethnal Green & Poplar seats in 2015 have applied to be affiliated Labour members
  • Options
    On topic, so far two Labour MPs have tweeted Don's piece.

    Just saying.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:


    There are not many better countries to live in the UK, and there are a lot that are worse. I expect that privately most people who rail against the UK know that, which is why they stay.

    Indeed and while I consider myself fortunate to have born British, Mrs Stodge, who was born in New Zealand, loves her country and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I draw the line at the point where the notion that our country is somehow "superior" to other countries heaves into view. I don't regard myself as "better" than a Frenchman, a German or an Italian who loves their country and wants their sportsmen and women to do well.

    At the same time, I can admire a great sporting performance from someone like Usain Bolt even if he beats British athletes. I suppose it's the line between patriotism and nationalism - I love my country and want it to do well but I understand you love yours and respect you want the best for it.

    I appreciate many countries in the world are badly or poorly governed but that doesn't stop a Libyan, Syrian or Venezuelan loving their country and wanting the best for it - governance and patriotism can and often have to be mutually exclusive. In the same way, you don't have to be a Conservative to be a patriot - as to whether you have to be a patriot to be a Conservative, I'll leave that for others to answer.


    That's well put, and while I prefer British sportsmen and women to win, I certainly admire truly great performances by foreign nationals.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,328
    What a carry on in the Kingdom o' Fife.

    https://twitter.com/GrantStott973/status/763680531523506177
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    rcs1000 said:

    Coal currently producing next to none of the UK's electricity

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

    Still a different story in winter, of course.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,436

    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    I Vow To Thee My Country? :D
    If England ever does have an anthem, I would love it to be 'There'll always be an England'. It's not terribly jingoistic, while at the same time being extremely English and eminently hummable.
    That's not saying very much - there'll always be a North Pole, if some dangerous clown doesn't melt it. (M. Flanders)
    The pole itself would still be there, irrespective of whether it's on land or sea.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Mr. Royale, that's why we must embrace the diversity of other cultures.

    Some aspects of which are fine. Others include FGM [with a 0% conviction rate] and honour killings.

    To me it's like not loving your own family and putting their needs first.

    Very few suggest that doing that means you don't give a toss about anyone else.
    As a friend of mine always points out, we support Indian, Pakistani, West Indian, African and other assorted nationalism as multi-cultural, but should English or British people take pride in their country it is instantly labelled as racist. It is one peculiarity of white people in this country I will never understand. I guess being an outsider to that gives me a different perspective, but I think there are more people who share it now than when I was growing up when it was almost a taboo to have a Union Flag or a George Cross hanging from a window.


    that is a laugh , given the vitriol and bile on here piled on Scottish people who support Scotland.
    Not from me malc, I am still a supporter of Scottish independence, I'm just not sure that the majority of Scots are.
  • Options

    What a carry on in the Kingdom o' Fife.

    twitter.com/GrantStott973/status/763680531523506177

    Fnarr
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    edited August 2016
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:


    There are not many better countries to live in the UK, and there are a lot that are worse. I expect that privately most people who rail against the UK know that, which is why they stay.

    Indeed and while I consider myself fortunate to have born British, Mrs Stodge, who was born in New Zealand, loves her country and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I draw the line at the point where the notion that our country is somehow "superior" to other countries heaves into view. I don't regard myself as "better" than a Frenchman, a German or an Italian who loves their country and wants their sportsmen and women to do well.

    At the same time, I can admire a great sporting performance from someone like Usain Bolt even if he beats British athletes. I suppose it's the line between patriotism and nationalism - I love my country and want it to do well but I understand you love yours and respect you want the best for it.

    I appreciate many countries in the world are badly or poorly governed but that doesn't stop a Libyan, Syrian or Venezuelan loving their country and wanting the best for it - governance and patriotism can and often have to be mutually exclusive. In the same way, you don't have to be a Conservative to be a patriot - as to whether you have to be a patriot to be a Conservative, I'll leave that for others to answer.


    That's well put, and while I prefer British sportsmen and women to win, I certainly admire truly great performances by foreign nationals.
    One set of my grandchildren are half-Thai and they celebrate success by both British and Thai sportspeople. They were here for the London Olympics and my son, their father, took them to events where Thai athletes were likely to do well.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,436
    stodge said:

    Labour's 26% today is their party's lowest vote share in opposition since September 1983.

    If memory serves, the Conservatives managed some impressively low shares in opposition from 1997-99.

    'Tis true. All the three historic Westminster parties have plunged the depths as much in opposition as in government. The Lib Dems' worst post-1990 score came this year, with a 4%.

    What made the Hague Tories' shares so bad was that Labour was regularly polling 50%+ at the time and occasionally into the sixties.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    JackW said:

    You jest (but not joust). Cannon shooting was a real Olympic (demonstration) sport in 1900:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_shooting_at_the_1900_Summer_Olympics

    France won, being the only country taking part.

    Rumour has it that Britain wanted to enter a team for the cannon shooting at the 1900 Paris Olympics with HMS Victory sailing up the River Seine .... never happened for some strange reason .... :sunglasses:
    I read somewhere (I'll have to try and refind it) during I think the Opium Wars, where Johnny Foreigner was massing under a large flag on a hilltop. One of the Her Majesty's warships fired a single shot - that snapped the flagpole.

    Gold!
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    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:


    There are not many better countries to live in the UK, and there are a lot that are worse. I expect that privately most people who rail against the UK know that, which is why they stay.

    Indeed and while I consider myself fortunate to have born British, Mrs Stodge, who was born in New Zealand, loves her country and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I draw the line at the point where the notion that our country is somehow "superior" to other countries heaves into view. I don't regard myself as "better" than a Frenchman, a German or an Italian who loves their country and wants their sportsmen and women to do well.

    At the same time, I can admire a great sporting performance from someone like Usain Bolt even if he beats British athletes. I suppose it's the line between patriotism and nationalism - I love my country and want it to do well but I understand you love yours and respect you want the best for it.

    I appreciate many countries in the world are badly or poorly governed but that doesn't stop a Libyan, Syrian or Venezuelan loving their country and wanting the best for it - governance and patriotism can and often have to be mutually exclusive. In the same way, you don't have to be a Conservative to be a patriot - as to whether you have to be a patriot to be a Conservative, I'll leave that for others to answer.


    Yes, I'd agree with that.

    I see nationalism as akin to religion, but with personality cults taking the place of gods and other countries in place of unbelievers. Both are irrational, but have been useful for human development.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    "The subsidised price for solar is below the meter cost, so people are just putting solar on their roofs and seeing their bills come down sharply. It's a real problem for the utilities, because they are seeing domestic demand collapse."

    A bit like the PCs versus the IBM monoliths of yesteryear.

    That's an excellent analogy that I'm going to steal, if that's OK.
    Could it be that the British Government have belatedly come to realise that the virtually inexhaustible supply of gas available from fracking, difficult though it may be to sell to the public, is many times cheaper, many times safer and very much more readily available than the 15-20 year time frame, blank cheque prospect involved in building hyper-expensive nuclear plants?
    Even better: CCGTs are incredibly flexible, have low capital cost, and can be turned on or off according to whether the sun is shining, out the wind is blowing.
    Did you see that article in this morning's Telegraph about the current advances being made in battery storage? If the author has got the story even half right it very much looks like Hinkley Point will be un-needed before it is even built.

    What I cannot understand is why the building regs are not changed to make solar panels, geo-thermal and/or heat exchangers mandatory on all new builds.

    My cousin has taken his house "off-grid" all together. The solar panels on a East-South-East facing roof generate enough electricity that he gets a cheque from the electricity company each quarter rather than a bill and the heat exchanger in the garden provides sufficient energy to heat the house and provide all the hot water they can use. He has now taken out his gas boiler as it was redundant. Ok there are only two of them but a family of four would see a massive reduction in energy bills. The whole set-up cost him a shade under £30k, which on the price of a new build is neither here nor there.

    A simple change to building regs would make Hinkley Point, and nuclear in general, a non-starter.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    edited August 2016
    Our grammar school had a school song. I still remember most of the words but the only ones I could understand were "Floreat Bostona" - it was a bit of a dirge.

    What's wrong with Jerusalem? At least we know what it's on about.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Llama, I'd guess geothermal is very geographically limited.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    Hales out already in the Test.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    "The subsidised price for solar is below the meter cost, so people are just putting solar on their roofs and seeing their bills come down sharply. It's a real problem for the utilities, because they are seeing domestic demand collapse."

    A bit like the PCs versus the IBM monoliths of yesteryear.

    That's an excellent analogy that I'm going to steal, if that's OK.
    Could it be that the British Government have belatedly come to realise that the virtually inexhaustible supply of gas available from fracking, difficult though it may be to sell to the public, is many times cheaper, many times safer and very much more readily available than the 15-20 year time frame, blank cheque prospect involved in building hyper-expensive nuclear plants?
    Even better: CCGTs are incredibly flexible, have low capital cost, and can be turned on or off according to whether the sun is shining, out the wind is blowing.
    Did you see that article in this morning's Telegraph about the current advances being made in battery storage? If the author has got the story even half right it very much looks like Hinkley Point will be un-needed before it is even built.

    What I cannot understand is why the building regs are not changed to make solar panels, geo-thermal and/or heat exchangers mandatory on all new builds.

    My cousin has taken his house "off-grid" all together. The solar panels on a East-South-East facing roof generate enough electricity that he gets a cheque from the electricity company each quarter rather than a bill and the heat exchanger in the garden provides sufficient energy to heat the house and provide all the hot water they can use. He has now taken out his gas boiler as it was redundant. Ok there are only two of them but a family of four would see a massive reduction in energy bills. The whole set-up cost him a shade under £30k, which on the price of a new build is neither here nor there.

    A simple change to building regs would make Hinkley Point, and nuclear in general, a non-starter.
    If his house is off-grid, how does he manage to get the electricity he generates to the electricity company? Also, how does he manage to generate enough power from solar panels in the depths of winter?
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    "The subsidised price for solar is below the meter cost, so people are just putting solar on their roofs and seeing their bills come down sharply. It's a real problem for the utilities, because they are seeing domestic demand collapse."

    A bit like the PCs versus the IBM monoliths of yesteryear.

    That's an excellent analogy that I'm going to steal, if that's OK.
    Could it be that the British Government have belatedly come to realise that the virtually inexhaustible supply of gas available from fracking, difficult though it may be to sell to the public, is many times cheaper, many times safer and very much more readily available than the 15-20 year time frame, blank cheque prospect involved in building hyper-expensive nuclear plants?
    Even better: CCGTs are incredibly flexible, have low capital cost, and can be turned on or off according to whether the sun is shining, out the wind is blowing.
    Did you see that article in this morning's Telegraph about the current advances being made in battery storage? If the author has got the story even half right it very much looks like Hinkley Point will be un-needed before it is even built.

    What I cannot understand is why the building regs are not changed to make solar panels, geo-thermal and/or heat exchangers mandatory on all new builds.

    My cousin has taken his house "off-grid" all together. The solar panels on a East-South-East facing roof generate enough electricity that he gets a cheque from the electricity company each quarter rather than a bill and the heat exchanger in the garden provides sufficient energy to heat the house and provide all the hot water they can use. He has now taken out his gas boiler as it was redundant. Ok there are only two of them but a family of four would see a massive reduction in energy bills. The whole set-up cost him a shade under £30k, which on the price of a new build is neither here nor there.

    A simple change to building regs would make Hinkley Point, and nuclear in general, a non-starter.
    The article is by AEP, who I always take with lashings of salt.

    However, we'll get there simply because the drivers are so powerful. Everyone wants lower power consumption - even if it's only a desirable side effect (e.g. in computing we want to maximise performance/watt). However, tackling domestic demand (as you highlight) is just part of the problem. Only 29% of UK energy requirements are for domestic use.
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    Sean_F said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    The monarchy is massively popular in this country.
    Don't confuse respect for the Queen and a tabloid obsession with the younger royals as "massive popularity"

    Give Charles 3 years and he will rival Jezza for declining popularity.
  • Options

    Australia has blocked Chinese bidders from taking a controlling stake in an electricity grid:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37043119

    I can't understand why Australia don't go 100% solar and be done with it. Speaking of renewables, when travelling up the M1 recently it was startling to see just how many wind turbines have sprung up over recent years.
    Even more surprising are the number of Yorkshire farmers (at least around the Huddersfield area in my experience) who have installed their own personal windmills - they're canny folk those Tykes, not renowned for throwing their money around, so I reckon their investment must make sound economic sense.
    I've also noticed, through gallivanting around the UK rail network over the last couple of years, loads and loads of solar panel farms.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,375
    edited August 2016

    Michael Crick

    Labour source says TUSC/Socialist Party cands in both the Bethnal Green & Poplar seats in 2015 have applied to be affiliated Labour members

    For that matter, the Green candidate who arguably was responsible for my losing (IIRC his vote was 0.7%, I lost by 0.4%) in 2010 has joined Labour - it's irritating in a way, but basically he's got a right to do it. I don't really see any reason why people shouldn't change their parties if they want to (I never got hot under the collar about defectors from Labour either), especially if the beneficiaries are seen to have changed - it's the converse of the line, "I haven't changed, but the party has moved away from me". Organised infiltration while retaining membership of a hostile organisation would be another matter.
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    Jerusalem, that old socialist anthem, unites everyone:

    http://socialistreview.org.uk/372/blakes-jerusalem

    It would be great to have it playing before England games and when English sportsmen and women win medals when they compete for England. It would also place England on an equal footing with the other home nations. England is not the UK.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,436

    Sean_F said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    The monarchy is massively popular in this country.
    Don't confuse respect for the Queen and a tabloid obsession with the younger royals as "massive popularity"

    Give Charles 3 years and he will rival Jezza for declining popularity.
    Charles will surprise many in his popularity, on the upside. The ceremonial of the role will of itself help make the man into the monarch and the elderly always get treated with more affection, Charles being nearly 70.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Reports of there being a new Micheal Howard are oft repeated, and grossly exaggerated.

    Howard only won 198 seats and 32% in 2005, he did not set a very high bar for Smith to leap to match him even if he did stabilise the Tories
    Howard did manage to gain 33 seats and only lost the popular vote by 3% - ie 33% to Labour's 36%. It also represented a 3% swing from 2001. Smith would probably be happy with that.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,010
    This is some run rate. England should have a ton up before lunch.
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    Sean_F said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    The monarchy is massively popular in this country.
    Don't confuse respect for the Queen and a tabloid obsession with the younger royals as "massive popularity"

    Give Charles 3 years and he will rival Jezza for declining popularity.
    I'll be surprised if he ever gets 3 years as King ..... 68 years of age in November, would he ascend the throne at say 75 years old or more? I very much doubt it.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    If his house is off-grid, how does he manage to get the electricity he generates to the electricity company? Also, how does he manage to generate enough power from solar panels in the depths of winter?

    Did you see the quotation marks around the expression "Off-grid"? He is generating more electricity than he uses, winter and summer alike. At night he draws in from the grid during the day he contributes to it. The balance works in his favour so he gets a cheque.

    If building regs were changed so that all new builds were required to have solar panels and heat exchangers/geothermal then it would, over a few years, make a massive difference to that country's energy demands. I am sure you can think through why.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634

    Sean_F said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    The monarchy is massively popular in this country.
    Don't confuse respect for the Queen and a tabloid obsession with the younger royals as "massive popularity"

    Give Charles 3 years and he will rival Jezza for declining popularity.
    I think he'll abdicate after a couple of years and hand over to William who is as popular as the Queen. If he stays in longer than that he risks republicanism winning key battles and possibly forcing a referendum on the royals.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978
    edited August 2016

    Michael Crick

    Labour source says TUSC/Socialist Party cands in both the Bethnal Green & Poplar seats in 2015 have applied to be affiliated Labour members

    For that matter, the Green candidate who arguably was responsible for my losing (IIRC his vote was 0.7%, I lost by 0.4%) in 2010 has joined Labour - it's irritating in a way, but basically he's got a right to do it. I don't really see any reason why people shouldn't change their parties if they want to (I never got hot under the collar about defectors from Labour either), especially if the beneficiaries are seen to have changed - it's the converse of the line, "I haven't changed, but the party has moved away from me". Organised infiltration while retaining membership of a hostile organisation would be another matter.

    Do you think Tom Watson is wrong? Where do you stand on this, Nick?

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/10/leader-expelled-leftwing-group-militant-peter-taaffe-readmission-labour-corbyn

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    Dromedary said:

    Sean_F said:

    The monarchy is massively popular in this country.

    Indeed. Of course it is, in a country where downward pointing class contempt is so strong. It was the monarchy that won the vote for Brexit. The front page of the Sun the day before the referendum:


    That built on this:




    It's the Sunil wot won it!
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    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Reports of there being a new Micheal Howard are oft repeated, and grossly exaggerated.

    Howard only won 198 seats and 32% in 2005, he did not set a very high bar for Smith to leap to match him even if he did stabilise the Tories
    Howard did manage to gain 33 seats and only lost the popular vote by 3% - ie 33% to Labour's 36%. It also represented a 3% swing from 2001. Smith would probably be happy with that.
    IDS NEVER lost a GE as Tory Leader!
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I'll be surprised if he ever gets 3 years as King ..... 68 years of age in November, would he ascend the throne at say 75 years old or more? I very much doubt it.

    Why wouldn't the Prince of Wales ascend the throne at 75?
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    TNS Subsample: SE/East England

    Con 52%: Lab 15%: UKIP 14%: LD 9%: Green 9%

    Tory dominance as strong, maybe stronger, than the SNP in Scotland, while Labour are only half a dozen points off fifth.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    A useful level-headed article by Charlie Cook on the US elections:

    https://www.nationaljournal.com/s/640214?unlock=8GPDHEXDMFB3NIU5&mref=homepage-free
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,468
    chestnut said:

    TNS Subsample: SE/East England

    Con 52%: Lab 15%: UKIP 14%: LD 9%: Green 9%

    Tory dominance as strong, maybe stronger, than the SNP in Scotland, while Labour are only half a dozen points off fifth.

    Calling John Denham.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, I'd guess geothermal is very geographically limited.

    That just isn't the case, Mr. D.. There are a few places where geothermal doesn't really work, but they are rare. Drill down 60 feet or so and the temperature difference is all you need.

    That said I am really impressed by my cousin's heat exchanger. It is the size of maybe two large suitcases laid on their side one on top of the other and stands in the garden underneath the kitchen window. It requires trivial amounts of electricity to drive the pumps but heats a four-bedroomed house and provides all the hot water they need.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,468

    Michael Crick

    Labour source says TUSC/Socialist Party cands in both the Bethnal Green & Poplar seats in 2015 have applied to be affiliated Labour members

    For that matter, the Green candidate who arguably was responsible for my losing (IIRC his vote was 0.7%, I lost by 0.4%) in 2010 has joined Labour - it's irritating in a way, but basically he's got a right to do it. I don't really see any reason why people shouldn't change their parties if they want to (I never got hot under the collar about defectors from Labour either), especially if the beneficiaries are seen to have changed - it's the converse of the line, "I haven't changed, but the party has moved away from me". Organised infiltration while retaining membership of a hostile organisation would be another matter.

    Do you think Tom Watson is wrong? Where do you stand on this, Nick?

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/10/leader-expelled-leftwing-group-militant-peter-taaffe-readmission-labour-corbyn

    As a point of information the Green candidate in question in Broxtowe had left Labour to join the Greens a few years prior to 2010. He was a Labour town councillor IIRC.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Llana, really?

    I was under the impression it was much less common.

    In that case we should be putting vast resources into geothermal.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    YouGov

    The Tories were on 38 per cent, down 4 percentage points, with Labour on 31 per cent, up 3, Ukip on 13, up 1, and the Lib Dems unchanged on 8 per cent.

    August poll. Ignore I say. Tories all on holiday (and grouse shooting from tomorrow).
    Such a poll would still see the Tories up 1% on the general election
    YouGov gives us GB data so on that basis the Tories are up 0.2% and Labour down 0.2%. Clearly MOE. Why has the Tory lead suddenly crashed? Perhaps May's honeymoon is starting to wear off.!
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    MaxPB said:

    I think he'll abdicate after a couple of years and hand over to William who is as popular as the Queen. If he stays in longer than that he risks republicanism winning key battles and possibly forcing a referendum on the royals.

    Like his mother, the new king will not break the coronation oath. Unlike some overseas sovereigns monarchy is for life not just Christmas (broadcasts).

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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    John_M said:


    The article is by AEP, who I always take with lashings of salt.

    However, we'll get there simply because the drivers are so powerful. Everyone wants lower power consumption - even if it's only a desirable side effect (e.g. in computing we want to maximise performance/watt). However, tackling domestic demand (as you highlight) is just part of the problem. Only 29% of UK energy requirements are for domestic use.

    Yes it is AEP but he is on this occasion simply reporting rather than forecasting, so I am inclined to cut him a bit more slack.

    If the storage problem can be solved, then we will indeed enter a new world. However, while we are waiting a simple change to building regs would render Hinkley Point unnecessary. I cannot understand why those changes are not being made.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    JackW said:

    I'll be surprised if he ever gets 3 years as King ..... 68 years of age in November, would he ascend the throne at say 75 years old or more? I very much doubt it.

    Why wouldn't the Prince of Wales ascend the throne at 75?
    The Queen Month lived until 101, so her daughter could easily do so. Charles would by then be 78. However, as the offspring of long-lived parents, with top-class health care on tap, he could reasonably expect to live another 20 years or so.
    William would by then be in his mid-60’s!
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,694

    Sean_F said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Am I the only one who hasn't got used to the time difference re Rio?

    Haven't tuned into a single event so far, and it's just passing me by bar clips floating about on Twitter.

    Jashvina Shah
    I mean come on look at the opening to Raisman's floor routine. Insane #olympics #USA https://t.co/SQsPGSitzx

    Nope, it's ideal for us - plenty of Olympics to watch before bed after a hard day's work.

    Finding the jingoistic BBC commentators quite cringe worthy though.
    You should hear the Spanish on RTVE - I don't think the Beeb is unusual.
    Only in this country do people get upset with the national broadcaster with British presenters and pundits cheer on British athletes at a sporting event. It goes beyond ordinary liberal white guilt.
    Being ashamed to take pride in your own country is a badge of basic decency and respect amongst much of the intelligentsia.

    Nothing Orwell said many decades ago has changed and, in fact, it's got worse.
    Patriotism in this country is too closely associated with Daily Mail style fawning over Kate Middleton and the Royals. It is a turn-off to many people. We need an anthem that that is more inclusive not still prattling on about "God save the Queen" in 2016 when half the population don't believe in God and many more think Monarchy is an outdated concept.

    Of course right wingers love it but surely its not too hard to understand why others don't.
    The monarchy is massively popular in this country.
    Don't confuse respect for the Queen and a tabloid obsession with the younger royals as "massive popularity"

    Give Charles 3 years and he will rival Jezza for declining popularity.
    Charles will surprise many in his popularity, on the upside. The ceremonial of the role will of itself help make the man into the monarch and the elderly always get treated with more affection, Charles being nearly 70.
    I hope you are right.
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    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,912
    edited August 2016



    If his house is off-grid, how does he manage to get the electricity he generates to the electricity company? Also, how does he manage to generate enough power from solar panels in the depths of winter?

    Did you see the quotation marks around the expression "Off-grid"? He is generating more electricity than he uses, winter and summer alike. At night he draws in from the grid during the day he contributes to it. The balance works in his favour so he gets a cheque.

    If building regs were changed so that all new builds were required to have solar panels and heat exchangers/geothermal then it would, over a few years, make a massive difference to that country's energy demands. I am sure you can think through why.
    "Off-grid" has a pretty clear meaning, quotation marks or not. So you cousin is not actually off-grid, but, like many others, generates some of his electricity from solar panels, selling any surplus and relying on the grid to top up at other times. I can believe that he makes a net profit in the summer, but I find it hard to believe that he can still rely exclusively on solar power during the winter without some hardship.

    Obviously I'd like to see more use of solar power, but I'm not convinced that mandating the incorporation of solar panels into newbuilds is a good idea. Some buildings may not be suitable, and I'd rather people had the choice. I'm open to persuasion though. Presumably, by geothermal you actually mean heat-pumps used to extract heat from the ground and surroundings, like an inside-out fridge. These are indeed an efficient way to warm a house, but they are usually expensive to install and, again, may not be suitable for all locations.

    On the whole, I'd rather see a free-market approach driven by higher energy prices (through taxation), with, of course, assistance for those who need it. The additional income could be used to reduce the deficit/income taxes.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited August 2016
    Know we've a few who travelled around here, lovely clip

    BBC Archive
    #OTD 1981 The tricky complexities of taking a train from West Germany to West Berlin
    https://t.co/a7YvaWMm7K
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503



    If his house is off-grid, how does he manage to get the electricity he generates to the electricity company? Also, how does he manage to generate enough power from solar panels in the depths of winter?

    Did you see the quotation marks around the expression "Off-grid"? He is generating more electricity than he uses, winter and summer alike. At night he draws in from the grid during the day he contributes to it. The balance works in his favour so he gets a cheque.

    If building regs were changed so that all new builds were required to have solar panels and heat exchangers/geothermal then it would, over a few years, make a massive difference to that country's energy demands. I am sure you can think through why.
    I read a good piece about Californian & European energy utilities a few months ago. Wish I could recall where. It's about the law of unintended consequences. Key points:

    1. Electricity grids are designed to distribute, not collect.
    2. Off-grid (even partial) homes are destroying the investment case for new build of base load and ruining the return curve for existing plant.

    My takeaway was that energy policy is complicated and messy.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,010
    Regional polling (SW, SE, Yorks and Humber, East Mids etc) would be very useful.

    National polling (Especially England) is too broad and individual seats too hard to get the mix right in/sample.

    The Comres SW poll was one of the best at the GE.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,694

    Jerusalem, that old socialist anthem, unites everyone:

    http://socialistreview.org.uk/372/blakes-jerusalem

    It would be great to have it playing before England games and when English sportsmen and women win medals when they compete for England. It would also place England on an equal footing with the other home nations. England is not the UK.

    And deeply religious, hence the name of the hymn.

    If Labour wish for a renaissance in England they would be well advised to get back in touch with their radical / Christian socialist roots in the English civil war. Of a love of England that has its roots in the land and the people, seeking their liberation and freedom within a peaceful and more equal land, rather than the institutional conservatism of the high church, army and establishment.
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    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov

    The Tories were on 38 per cent, down 4 percentage points, with Labour on 31 per cent, up 3, Ukip on 13, up 1, and the Lib Dems unchanged on 8 per cent.

    August poll. Ignore I say. Tories all on holiday (and grouse shooting from tomorrow).
    Such a poll would still see the Tories up 1% on the general election
    YouGov gives us GB data so on that basis the Tories are up 0.2% and Labour down 0.2%. Clearly MOE. Why has the Tory lead suddenly crashed? Perhaps May's honeymoon is starting to wear off.!
    Labour are truly in the brown stuff if people are celebrating the Tory lead being reduced to just 7%.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    A new poll by TNS BMRB shows that 44% of people think Theresa May is a better leader for Britain than Jeremy Corbyn (16%). It also gives the Conservative party a 13 point lead over Labour.

    The full voter intention figures are:

    CON 39%, LAB 26%, UKIP 11%, LIB DEM 10%, Green 7%, Other 7%
    Support for Theresa May is strongest amongst women over 55, with 68% thinking she makes the best leader for Britain and only 9% of this group thinking Jeremy Corbyn would be best.

    More than half of those interviewed (54%) said they thought Theresa May is performing well as leader of the Conservative Party. In contrast, over half (51%) of those surveyed said Jeremy Corbyn is not performing in his job as leader of the Labour Party. Indeed, 45% of those who voted for Labour at the last general election say he is performing badly in his role as party leader.

    A large number of those interviewed (43%) were uncertain about the future of the Labour party. Only a quarter (24%), think the Labour party can survive its current divisions while a third (33%) believe the Labour Party will split.

    Some stuff about Brexit too here

    http://www.tnsglobal.co.uk/press-release/may-better-britain-corbyn-tories-have-13pt-lead-over-labour

    The LD+Grn share - some 17% - is particularly notable when set against Labour's declining share. That the Greens have hit 7% without any effort at all (indeed, with Corbyn parking Labour's tanks on the Greens' lawn), shows both the potential Labour support with a competent leader and also the potential for another party of the centre-left to capitalise on the floating oppositionist voters if they don't.
    The 7% Green figure looks very doubtful and makes the poll rather suspect.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
This discussion has been closed.