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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Voters are as opposed to Royal Mail privatisation as they a

SystemSystem Posts: 12,458
edited September 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Voters are as opposed to Royal Mail privatisation as they are to British missile attacks on Syria

The overall polling looks very similar to that carried out ahead of the Commons vote on Syria though I doubt whether here public opinion be listened to quite so much. All three main parties have got their thumb prints in some ways on this in one way or another.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307
    RM should have been privatised 25 years ago.

    Too many people have had their minds twisted by The BBC, Postman Pat.

    Is The Royal Mail still the largest single contributor to the current strike records in GB?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Telling how UKIP's figures look like the LDs and Labour instead of the Tories. Their support-base is more nostalgic about the past than it is supportive of the free market.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Why do we need Royal Mail or Post Office Counters in the public sector ?

    Parcel force should be the first to go to the private sector.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    FPT

    Fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 5m
    Bob Crow calls for General Strike... murmurings of coordinated strike action elsewhere.... Crow also launching a No to EU party tomorrow

    Chris Mason ‏@ChrisMasonBBC 9m
    Prentice of Unison: "the focus now should be election, not a special conference contemplating our navel. That is cloud cuckoo land."
    Bob Crow eh??

    We also have this

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5122960/Red-Len-McCluskey-strike-plot-to-cripple-Britain.html

    "BRITAIN’S biggest union has drawn up a secret masterplan to drag the country to its knees with a wave of strikes.

    Unite boss Red Len McCluskey put activists on an industrial war footing, saying: “Prepare for crisis.”

    His plot to wreak havoc is revealed in a leaked memo obtained by The Sun."

    Same old unions
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307
    edited September 2013
    @Fitalass Adrian Harpur - always worth a read.

    Apologies to all for not writing FIRST.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,335
    The Unite boss would be taking one hell of a brave gamble with public opinion if he tries this kind of stunt just as the UK economy has finally turned the corner after such deep recession. He would also be in real danger of further undermining the Labour party in the run up to the next GE.
    Floater said:

    FPT

    Fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 5m
    Bob Crow calls for General Strike... murmurings of coordinated strike action elsewhere.... Crow also launching a No to EU party tomorrow

    Chris Mason ‏@ChrisMasonBBC 9m
    Prentice of Unison: "the focus now should be election, not a special conference contemplating our navel. That is cloud cuckoo land."
    Bob Crow eh??

    We also have this

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5122960/Red-Len-McCluskey-strike-plot-to-cripple-Britain.html

    "BRITAIN’S biggest union has drawn up a secret masterplan to drag the country to its knees with a wave of strikes.

    Unite boss Red Len McCluskey put activists on an industrial war footing, saying: “Prepare for crisis.”

    His plot to wreak havoc is revealed in a leaked memo obtained by The Sun."

    Same old unions

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Do the unions even have the membership and clout to organise a general strike these days? I'm doubtful they could go through with this if they tried.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Fitalass

    The FBU going on strike , I imagine will be blamed on Ed as well.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,335
    Daily Mail - The humiliation of Ed Miliband: Labour leader's new crisis as he makes U-turn on union vote-rigging row after Unite 'threatens to bankrupt the party'

    "Ed Miliband is facing the gravest crisis of his leadership after former Home Secretary David Blunkett warned that he was putting the ‘entire Labour project’ at risk, amid claims that the party was just ‘days away from bankruptcy’.

    Mr Miliband was last night said to have been forced into a humiliating climbdown in his battle with the union barons because he feared the loss of their vital funds.

    One Labour MP publicly described the situation as a ‘catastrophe’ which had put the party’s ‘very existence’ at risk.

    The party was plunged into open warfare this weekend after an internal probe cleared the Unite union over allegations that it had ‘packed’ the Falkirk constituency with its members in an attempt to fix the selection of Karie Murphy, a close friend of Unite leader Len McCluskey.

    Senior party sources have claimed that the report reached its conclusion because Mr Miliband feared the union would follow the lead of the GMB, which last week slashed its funding of Labour by more than £1 million. Such a move would lead to the party going bust within days – and in the week in which Mr Miliband is due to give a crunch speech to the TUC conference."



  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,335
    What is Ed Miliband's position on the FBU going on strike, or will I just add that one to the every growing pending pile of decisions yet to be made by the Labour Leader?
    Yorkcity said:

    Fitalass

    The FBU going on strike , I imagine will be blamed on Ed as well.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,773
    Worth taking a look at the UKPR graph of the rolling average of all polls.

    It's been updated this morning and, whilst it's hard to measure the lead precisely, the Lab lead does appear to be smaller now than at any time since the 2012 Budget.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    fitalass said:

    What is Ed Miliband's position on the FBU going on strike, or will I just add that one to the every growing pending pile of decisions yet to be made by the Labour Leader?

    Yorkcity said:

    Fitalass

    The FBU going on strike , I imagine will be blamed on Ed as well.

    Does David Cameron have a position?

    Personally I don't think that the PM and LotO need to have a position on everything.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307
    Has John Kerry worked out that the Munich Agreement ruled out military action?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24004687
  • Interesting article here on the Australian Senate here:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-08/minor-parties-to-play-key-role-in-senate-make-up/4944188

    They have an STV system for the senate but as the system requires voters to number all the candidates even if there are 100 of them, most voters just tick a box for their main party and allow their main party to distribute their 100 preferences for them.

    This means a party like the Sport party can get elected with 225 first choice votes if the other parties like them enough!
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,335
    I would expect David Cameron and the Government to have more than a position on the FBU going on strike, in fact they will have contingency plans drawn up to deal with such strike action.
    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    What is Ed Miliband's position on the FBU going on strike, or will I just add that one to the every growing pending pile of decisions yet to be made by the Labour Leader?

    Yorkcity said:

    Fitalass

    The FBU going on strike , I imagine will be blamed on Ed as well.

    Does David Cameron have a position?

    Personally I don't think that the PM and LotO need to have a position on everything.
  • A less in-depth post-race analysis than usual up here: http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/italy-post-race-analysis.html
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,471
    FPT

    This is interesting, and a bit depressing.

    Humanity appears to be just clever enough to work out how stupid it is.

    Anyone paying any attention to pb.com would have reached this conclusion already, but it's nice to have a more concise exposition.

    @OblitusSumMe Thanks for posting that link. It is really, really interesting.
  • FPT:
    But more – the source is a nice example of a simple psycho-social experiment that is pertinent to many of the discussions here. A few pb.com egos might deflate if they read it with humility.
    Ok geoffw, I'll bite.

    How do you read "with humility" (sans Sven's infamous "eat-my-feet" venality). In my mind 'humility' is an emotive rather than an action 'to be under-taken'. I understand that you may be able to "comprehend" with a sense of "humility"; reading with such-like...?

    :off-to-actually-read-article: >>>>
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,024
    FPT
    Post of the day!


    Humanity appears to be just clever enough to work out how stupid it is.

    But more – the source is a nice example of a simple psycho-social experiment that is pertinent to many of the discussions here. A few pb.com egos might deflate if they read it with humility.
  • MikeL said:

    Worth taking a look at the UKPR graph of the rolling average of all polls.

    It's been updated this morning and, whilst it's hard to measure the lead precisely, the Lab lead does appear to be smaller now than at any time since the 2012 Budget.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2

    I would imagine one worrying aspect for that poll is that there's been no uptick in Libdem figures yet. It will come, maybe not by much but they will claw back some of their voters lost to Labour.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,024
    @FluffyThoughts By asking themselves "could I be wrong?" before posting. The Kahan paper demonstrates that your political standpoint can affect how you interpret numerical data even if you are numerically literate.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    fitalass said:

    I would expect David Cameron and the Government to have more than a position on the FBU going on strike, in fact they will have contingency plans drawn up to deal with such strike action.

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    What is Ed Miliband's position on the FBU going on strike, or will I just add that one to the every growing pending pile of decisions yet to be made by the Labour Leader?

    Yorkcity said:

    Fitalass

    The FBU going on strike , I imagine will be blamed on Ed as well.

    Does David Cameron have a position?

    Personally I don't think that the PM and LotO need to have a position on everything.
    But there you are mixing up the government role (contingency plans) with the political role.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    geoffw said:

    FPT
    Post of the day!


    Humanity appears to be just clever enough to work out how stupid it is.

    But more – the source is a nice example of a simple psycho-social experiment that is pertinent to many of the discussions here. A few pb.com egos might deflate if they read it with humility.
    All that study shows is that 41% of people are too stupid to be allowed out of their homes.

    Utterly depressing they could even reach the conclusion they did after using such a simple example.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    maaarsh said:

    geoffw said:

    FPT
    Post of the day!


    Humanity appears to be just clever enough to work out how stupid it is.

    But more – the source is a nice example of a simple psycho-social experiment that is pertinent to many of the discussions here. A few pb.com egos might deflate if they read it with humility.
    All that study shows is that 41% of people are too stupid to be allowed out of their homes.

    Utterly depressing they could even reach the conclusion they did after using such a simple example.
    Add on some people guessing either way and it says a majority of people can't work that out (or just see it because it is so very obvious).

    No wonder we end up with the governments we do.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Quincel said:

    Telling how UKIP's figures look like the LDs and Labour instead of the Tories. Their support-base is more nostalgic about the past than it is supportive of the free market.

    Replacing public monopolies with private monopolies and cartels has got nothing to do with free markets.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,024
    @maaarsh It's the simplicity that makes the point.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    geoffw said:

    FPT
    Post of the day!


    Humanity appears to be just clever enough to work out how stupid it is.

    But more – the source is a nice example of a simple psycho-social experiment that is pertinent to many of the discussions here. A few pb.com egos might deflate if they read it with humility.
    All that study shows is that 41% of people are too stupid to be allowed out of their homes.

    Utterly depressing they could even reach the conclusion they did after using such a simple example.
    Add on some people guessing either way and it says a majority of people can't work that out (or just see it because it is so very obvious).

    No wonder we end up with the governments we do.
    Sorry, 59% got it wrong! Staggering.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited September 2013
    Welcome back OGH.

    Just in time to see the final denouement of Yvette replacing Ed and my shed coming in.... ????

    The PB Tories led by Cohen, Hodges, Blunkett, Rentoul, Aaronovitch are all putting in the foundations for me in the garden!
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    geoffw said:

    @maaarsh It's the simplicity that makes the point.

    But look at the graphs at the bottom - most people get it wrong in the apolitical form. Most people are innumerate cretins.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    MrJones said:

    Quincel said:

    Telling how UKIP's figures look like the LDs and Labour instead of the Tories. Their support-base is more nostalgic about the past than it is supportive of the free market.

    Replacing public monopolies with private monopolies and cartels has got nothing to do with free markets.
    I'd be inclined to agree, but the issue is often framed like it does (hence the slightly more favourable Tory views).
  • Can we have a "politicalbetting" voodoo-poll OGH? Nothing complex: A simple binary question...?
    The question before the House is: Does correlation equal causation?
    If you need to fill-out another thread please add the following:
    Please show your workings....
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRHZOL9O0UQ
    fitalass said:

    What is Ed Miliband's position on the FBU going on strike, or will I just add that one to the every growing pending pile of decisions yet to be made by the Labour Leader?

    Yorkcity said:

    Fitalass

    The FBU going on strike , I imagine will be blamed on Ed as well.

  • "The UK Labour Party faces an election meltdown like that experienced by its Australian counterpart unless it stops its "squabbles" with the unions, leader Ed Miliband has been warned.

    Dave Prentis, general secretary of the public sector union Unison, said the party had to "get its act together".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24009526
  • I must stop watching Bale's best goals for Spurs.

    Like clips of Brown as comedy PM, neither of them are coming back home again and it's a loss that's easier to take with one than the other....

    Soldado's best Spurs penalties isn't quite doing it yet. Still plenty of time.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,335
    Thanks Carlotta. :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRHZOL9O0UQ

    fitalass said:

    What is Ed Miliband's position on the FBU going on strike, or will I just add that one to the every growing pending pile of decisions yet to be made by the Labour Leader?

    Yorkcity said:

    Fitalass

    The FBU going on strike , I imagine will be blamed on Ed as well.

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    fitalass said:

    I would expect David Cameron and the Government to have more than a position on the FBU going on strike, in fact they will have contingency plans drawn up to deal with such strike action.

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    What is Ed Miliband's position on the FBU going on strike, or will I just add that one to the every growing pending pile of decisions yet to be made by the Labour Leader?

    Yorkcity said:

    Fitalass

    The FBU going on strike , I imagine will be blamed on Ed as well.

    Does David Cameron have a position?

    Personally I don't think that the PM and LotO need to have a position on everything.
    Same as the Labour Government in 2002 and 1977 , I would guess without the green godesses.
    Army with retained firefighters and police escort.

    The loto and the Government of the day, always have some difficulty with emergency workers going on strike in a free society.
  • How would VI be affected if we had another winter of discontent, dead bodies piled up in the streets, people being spat at for going into work, and Labour unable to condemn the strikers?
  • How would VI be affected if we had another winter of discontent, dead bodies piled up in the streets, people being spat at for going into work, and Labour unable to condemn the strikers?

    Dunno - but last time Labour was in power, so much easier to blame 100% - this time the govt might easily cop some of the blame itself.......

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    I would expect David Cameron and the Government to have more than a position on the FBU going on strike, in fact they will have contingency plans drawn up to deal with such strike action.

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    What is Ed Miliband's position on the FBU going on strike, or will I just add that one to the every growing pending pile of decisions yet to be made by the Labour Leader?

    Yorkcity said:

    Fitalass

    The FBU going on strike , I imagine will be blamed on Ed as well.

    Does David Cameron have a position?

    Personally I don't think that the PM and LotO need to have a position on everything.
    But there you are mixing up the government role (contingency plans) with the political role.
    Very true , I think fitalss is aware of that .

    It is the sound bites, and the response to the FBU strike action, she will condemn.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited September 2013
    In a surprise reaction - Carswell:

    "The lesson from Tony Abbott's victory in Australia: Tories, stop drifting to the soggy centre"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/douglascarswellmp/100234389/the-lesson-from-tony-abbotts-victory-in-australia-tories-stop-drifting-to-the-soggy-centre/

    While Carswell is right that voters respond well to authenticity - I fear he may not like where most of them are - the 'soggy centre'......
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited September 2013
    Is this Bob Crow new anti-EU party, the same as the Alan Sked new anti-EU party?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,335
    James Forsyth at the Coffee House Blog - Miliband has to win the fight that he’s started
  • "There are now only 21 months until the next election. The last thing Miliband wants is to fighting his party reform battle right up until polling day. But it looks like this is what the unions are going to force him to do. This is a real problem for Miliband as, having staked his political reputation on this fight, he can’t back down."

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/09/miliband-has-to-win-the-fight-that-hes-started/
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    No complaints today on PB regarding the MSM. Sky going very heavy with the problems with the NHS.

    BBC on the Unions.

    Role reversal.

  • redcliffe62redcliffe62 Posts: 342
    edited September 2013

    In a surprise reaction - Carswell:

    "The lesson from Tony Abbott's victory in Australia: Tories, stop drifting to the soggy centre"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/douglascarswellmp/100234389/the-lesson-from-tony-abbotts-victory-in-australia-tories-stop-drifting-to-the-soggy-centre/

    While Carswell is right that voters respond well to authenticity - I fear he may not like where most of them are - the 'soggy centre'......

    The lesson is do not promise a surplus and then produce a 30 billion dollar debt 11 weeks later, and do not change PM's without bothering with elections and then slag each other off in public like primary school kids.
    Unity is strength.

    Abbott is 4/10, sadly for Labor Rudd was 3/10.

    Had Turnbull led the Liberals on current data he would have almost had a whitewash, and certainly left Labor with only a rump.

    Labor people loved him, Liberals loved him as he is so damned cool in his leather jacket. His honesty and integrity helps too.
    I think Abbott will be better than many think. Firefighter, lifesaver and supporter of indigenous rights, and tough on economic waste.
  • fitalass said:

    James Forsyth at the Coffee House Blog - Miliband has to win the fight that he’s started

    "The last thing Miliband wants is to be fighting his party reform battle right up until polling day. But it looks like this is what the unions are going to force him to do."

    Miliband may have lost the first battle, but he may yet win the war. - It will be interesting to see what reception he receives at conference from the Unions.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,471

    How would VI be affected if we had another winter of discontent, dead bodies piled up in the streets, people being spat at for going into work, and Labour unable to condemn the strikers?

    It was rubbish that was piled up in the streets. I forget where they stored all the dead bodies - commercial freezer-warehouses?

    But times are very different now. H&S would prevent people from having candles lit on their desks to work by, and anyway the computers would be down, in those far-off days it was paper-pushing.

    If the power was off for long enough, mobile phones & everything else battery-dependent would go dead.

  • So many new Political Party's... have they all heard about the state funding
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,737
    The British Electorate: opposed to everything except handouts.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    How would VI be affected if we had another winter of discontent, dead bodies piled up in the streets, people being spat at for going into work, and Labour unable to condemn the strikers?

    Dunno - but last time Labour was in power, so much easier to blame 100% - this time the govt might easily cop some of the blame itself.......

    I would agree, be a hard one to call condemning low paid workers, with many feeling the balance is not like the the 1970`s.

    The FBU would be a totally seperate case, there is always a certain unease, on both sides of the dispute about emergency workers striking. It is very difficult for politicians to set the right tone, and how far to get involved in solving the differences between employer and the union.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    fitalass said:

    James Forsyth at the Coffee House Blog - Miliband has to win the fight that he’s started

    "The last thing Miliband wants is to be fighting his party reform battle right up until polling day. But it looks like this is what the unions are going to force him to do."

    Miliband may have lost the first battle, but he may yet win the war. - It will be interesting to see what reception he receives at conference from the Unions.
    I would be amazed if the whole thing isn't fudged - neither side can afford to back down so it'll be a messy fudge. However, I'd be even more amazed if the whole thing had much impact on polling - the public have largely made up their mind on Miliband and internal party wrangles are of zero interest outside the 'bubble'.
  • Sky's poll in a hospital
    What do you think of the staff... wonderful
    Do you think you have waited too long in emergency .. Yes.
    Do you think the Governments cuts have made it worse..Yes.
    Do the staff work hard .. Yes
    Says it all really
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,737

    In a surprise reaction - Carswell:

    "The lesson from Tony Abbott's victory in Australia: Tories, stop drifting to the soggy centre"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/douglascarswellmp/100234389/the-lesson-from-tony-abbotts-victory-in-australia-tories-stop-drifting-to-the-soggy-centre/

    While Carswell is right that voters respond well to authenticity - I fear he may not like where most of them are - the 'soggy centre'......

    The lesson is do not promise a surplus and then produce a 30 billion dollar debt 11 weeks later, and do not change PM's without bothering with elections and then slag each other off in public like primary school kids.
    Unity is strength.

    Abbott is 4/10, sadly for Labor Rudd was 3/10.

    Had Turnbull led the Liberals on current data he would have almost had a whitewash, and certainly left Labor with only a rump.

    Labor people loved him, Liberals loved him as he is so damned cool in his leather jacket. His honesty and integrity helps too.
    I think Abbott will be better than many think. Firefighter, lifesaver and supporter of indigenous rights, and tough on economic waste.
    Abbott will have to make sure he isn't too extreme or he'll be replaced by Turnbull. In fact the chances of that happening just before the next election must be quite high.
  • Sk*'s poll in a prison.
    Is your cell too small..yes
    How bad is the food..very bad
    Do you think your sentence is too long .. Yes
    Do you think you should be let out at weekends ..Yes
    Are the wardens horrible...Yes
    Says it all really
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,737
    Labor leads in McEwen by 73 votes with 58 of 64 booths counted:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/guide/mcew/
  • Yorkcity said:

    How would VI be affected if we had another winter of discontent, dead bodies piled up in the streets, people being spat at for going into work, and Labour unable to condemn the strikers?

    Dunno - but last time Labour was in power, so much easier to blame 100% - this time the govt might easily cop some of the blame itself.......

    I would agree, be a hard one to call condemning low paid workers, with many feeling the balance is not like the the 1970`s.

    The FBU would be a totally seperate case, there is always a certain unease, on both sides of the dispute about emergency workers striking. It is very difficult for politicians to set the right tone, and how far to get involved in solving the differences between employer and the union.
    Depends which low paid workers, the ones who are unionised or not. It is likely that the baby eaters will be on the side of the non-unionised.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited September 2013
    For those investing or have invested in windmills and all things cosily green, prepare to lose millions and please sob quietly in the corner.

    The Global warming scam comes to a crashing halt.
    All we need for confirmation is a thickening of Alpine glaciers this winter reversing a few years of decline.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/10294082/Global-warming-No-actually-were-cooling-claim-scientists.html

  • AnneJGP said:

    How would VI be affected if we had another winter of discontent, dead bodies piled up in the streets, people being spat at for going into work, and Labour unable to condemn the strikers?

    It was rubbish that was piled up in the streets. I forget where they stored all the dead bodies - commercial freezer-warehouses?

    But times are very different now. H&S would prevent people from having candles lit on their desks to work by, and anyway the computers would be down, in those far-off days it was paper-pushing.

    If the power was off for long enough, mobile phones & everything else battery-dependent would go dead.

    You're right about the bodies of course, Ms AGP. I was at Uni at the time and wasn't sober enough to remember.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307

    I must stop watching Bale's best goals for Spurs.

    Like clips of Brown as comedy PM, neither of them are coming back home again and it's a loss that's easier to take with one than the other....

    Soldado's best Spurs penalties isn't quite doing it yet. Still plenty of time.

    I suppose Soldado will not play 24 games before ending up on the winning side.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Sky's poll in a hospital
    What do you think of the staff... wonderful
    Do you think you have waited too long in emergency .. Yes.
    Do you think the Governments cuts have made it worse..Yes.
    Do the staff work hard .. Yes
    Says it all really

    Actually it says f**k all!
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Sk*'s poll in a prison.
    Is your cell too small..yes
    How bad is the food..very bad
    Do you think your sentence is too long .. Yes
    Do you think you should be let out at weekends ..Yes
    Are the wardens horrible...Yes
    Says it all really

    And this says even less.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,356
    edited September 2013
    Andy JS - Or Julie Bishop, his deputy leader. It looks like the new ALP leader will be Anthony Albanese who is just about the only ALP figure who can unite both the Rudd and Gillard factions, having been a Rudd supporter but served Gillard loyally in Cabinet. He is a heavy hitter, if austerity hits Abbott's ratings the ALP could get a poll lead again in a shorter than expected time, as Labour did after 2010 here. What are the odds of a Julie being PM just a few years after Julia, may be worth a punt if any odds are given!
  • It is the equivalat of goinfg to aleper colot and asking
    Is Leprosy awful..yes
    Should the government do something about it before Christmas..yes
    Result.. 100% of leper victims blame the government for their awful condition and demand a cure by Christmas.Duh
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MikeK said:

    Sky's poll in a hospital
    What do you think of the staff... wonderful
    Do you think you have waited too long in emergency .. Yes.
    Do you think the Governments cuts have made it worse..Yes.
    Do the staff work hard .. Yes
    Says it all really

    Actually it says f**k all!
    To be fair, it highlights the disconnect between the statistics / reality and the view that people take.

    One of the core functions of nursing is the caring aspect, building a bond with patients and simply providing company. All of these factors help with the healing rates and help with spotting problems early.

    By encouraging nurses to act more like doctors, and by encouraging agency staff, they have loosened the bond nurses establish with patients - and in many cases some nurses have lost sight of the importance of the "caring functions". Giving an elderly patient a bed bath, for instance, is a horrible job, but it needs to be done quickly and in such a way as to preserve dignity to the extent possible. The intention was to save money, but the consequences expensive.

    Give nurses more independence / authority (I quite like senior nurses having ward responsibility rather than centralised management) and hold them accountable for the results.
  • felix said:

    fitalass said:

    James Forsyth at the Coffee House Blog - Miliband has to win the fight that he’s started

    "The last thing Miliband wants is to be fighting his party reform battle right up until polling day. But it looks like this is what the unions are going to force him to do."

    Miliband may have lost the first battle, but he may yet win the war. - It will be interesting to see what reception he receives at conference from the Unions.
    "the public have largely made up their mind on Miliband and internal party wrangles are of zero interest outside the 'bubble'.
    Oh I quite agree – however it is meat and drink to the inhabitants of PB, it will be a diverting change from the Scottish independence vote next year and the joys of electoral reform. :-)
  • AnneJGP said:

    How would VI be affected if we had another winter of discontent, dead bodies piled up in the streets, people being spat at for going into work, and Labour unable to condemn the strikers?

    It was rubbish that was piled up in the streets. I forget where they stored all the dead bodies - commercial freezer-warehouses?
    Leicester Square was piled high with rubbish - and Liverpool looked at - but backed away from - people burying their own relatives:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/dec/30/liverpool-gravedigger-strikes
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,270
    edited September 2013
    Surely our biggest concern must be the serious effect that Miliband is having on the efforts of the England cricket team. A totally lacklustre performance today with bat and ball.

    If Ed were more decisive and authoritative we simply would not have these kinds of disasters.

    Similarly, it is clearly Ed's fault that Unions are talking about general strikes and the other nonsense they talk about every year before the TUC conference in an ever more desperate attempt to get some attention. The tiny and insignificant detail that he has no control over the Unions or England's cricket team is absolutely no excuse. This is all his fault.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2013
    like asking lepers if they dont like being lepers and could the government do more
    Sk*s verdict '' Ioo percent of leper victims blame the government for not doing more .
    Talk about a captive audience..
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    How would VI be affected if we had another winter of discontent, dead bodies piled up in the streets, people being spat at for going into work, and Labour unable to condemn the strikers?

    Dunno - but last time Labour was in power, so much easier to blame 100% - this time the govt might easily cop some of the blame itself.......

    I would agree, be a hard one to call condemning low paid workers, with many feeling the balance is not like the the 1970`s.

    The FBU would be a totally seperate case, there is always a certain unease, on both sides of the dispute about emergency workers striking. It is very difficult for politicians to set the right tone, and how far to get involved in solving the differences between employer and the union.
    Depends which low paid workers, the ones who are unionised or not. It is likely that the baby eaters will be on the side of the non-unionised.
    Non unionised workers will not go on strike. How could they in todays work place.

    The unionised will be in the public sector.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,173
    Yorkcity said:

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    I would expect David Cameron and the Government to have more than a position on the FBU going on strike, in fact they will have contingency plans drawn up to deal with such strike action.

    Charles said:

    fitalass said:

    What is Ed Miliband's position on the FBU going on strike, or will I just add that one to the every growing pending pile of decisions yet to be made by the Labour Leader?

    Yorkcity said:

    Fitalass

    The FBU going on strike , I imagine will be blamed on Ed as well.

    Does David Cameron have a position?

    Personally I don't think that the PM and LotO need to have a position on everything.
    But there you are mixing up the government role (contingency plans) with the political role.
    Very true , I think fitalss is aware of that .

    It is the sound bites, and the response to the FBU strike action, she will condemn.
    More like thinks the contingency plans are their political opinions
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,173
    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    How would VI be affected if we had another winter of discontent, dead bodies piled up in the streets, people being spat at for going into work, and Labour unable to condemn the strikers?

    Dunno - but last time Labour was in power, so much easier to blame 100% - this time the govt might easily cop some of the blame itself.......

    I would agree, be a hard one to call condemning low paid workers, with many feeling the balance is not like the the 1970`s.

    The FBU would be a totally seperate case, there is always a certain unease, on both sides of the dispute about emergency workers striking. It is very difficult for politicians to set the right tone, and how far to get involved in solving the differences between employer and the union.
    Depends which low paid workers, the ones who are unionised or not. It is likely that the baby eaters will be on the side of the non-unionised.
    Non unionised workers will not go on strike. How could they in todays work place.

    The unionised will be in the public sector.
    95% of whom will not be missed, so it will be a massive flop
  • On topic: I was very surprised by the lack of any serious opposition to the Royal Mail privatisation when the plans were being finalised and voted on in parliament in 2011. I think I'm right in saying that everything is already in place and no further parliamentary votes are necessary, so it's basically a bit late for campaigners to start making a fuss now, even though in the case of Labour at least the fuss is entirely synthetic. All three main parties of course have come to the same conclusion when looking at the financial and business case for privatisation, but no doubt there will be much noise about it when the IPO is launched (which may be very soon). However, I very much doubt is will shift any votes, any more than BT privatisation did.

    There's a good factual summary of the status of the privatisation plans here:

    http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN06668.pdf
  • What we have no sense of here is how passionately the public oppose (or support) this privatisation. My suspicion is that this will raise the passions of many, especially elderly voters. This cannot be good news for either coalition party.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    antifrank said:

    What we have no sense of here is how passionately the public oppose (or support) this privatisation. My suspicion is that this will raise the passions of many, especially elderly voters. This cannot be good news for either coalition party.

    Really ?

    Passion to recieve your bills by post, and your pension in cash.

    About time we moved on.
  • FPT Charles:

    "In my industry, at least, without QA/QC you don't have a product."

    You musn't mistake produce a quality product with producing a QAed product.

    In my experience most of the time spent following QA procedures in accordance with the latest British Standard or government regulation is pointless, even counterproductive.

  • An interesting analysis of the mountain the Scottish separatists have to climb:

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/eddie-barnes-reasons-for-backing-the-union-1-3081868
  • RN

    Apolgies for my error last week in thinking you had joined Avery in suggesting that EdM wanted a second Syria vote.

    IIRC you had linked to a newspaper article suggesting so and I had mistakenly assumed that you agreed with it.

    I should have known better than that you would join Avery in his somewhat erratic behaviour of that day.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    On topic, Royal Mail needs a massive dose of private sector discipline,management,and access to finance. The finance will only come with the discipline.
    The future is online shopping and delivery,mail through the door is 90% junk for the domestic market,emails etc have killed the old letter market. They need to gear up more for the home delivery market.
    I have all the usual complaints about RM,I am convinced that some days they cannot be arsed making a delivery round,as I get no mail,and nor do my neighbours,and next day,I get a bumper delivery,parcels are just not delivered,you have to go to the local centre etc.
    I sell stuff on ebay,and I always avoid RM,they cannot compete at the moment.
    Sorry to our Scottish friends,but if you choose to live in remote places,you have to pay for it.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Andy_JS said:
    Has anyone read this article? The Gun-Loving Liberal Democrats sound amazing:

    He said Tony Abbott faces challenges to some of his landmark policies.
    "We wouldn't stop him from getting rid of the carbon tax," he said.
    "But when it comes to his big spending plans he may be in trouble, such as direct action on climate change and his paid parental leave - he won't be getting any support from us.
    "We would much rather have tax cuts."
    Mr Leyonhjelm described his party as libertarian and said it advocated less government control, assisted suicide, a flat 20 per cent income tax rate and giving people right to carry concealed weapons for their personal safety.
    I want to vote for these people. This. Is. My. Party.

  • FPT Charles:

    " We have a number of advantages - language, location etc. Additionally, we have easy access to the global law of business (English), and a relatively predictable and attractive tax and regualtory system.

    This means we attract more than our fair share of talented international individuals to London to work in financial services. There's nothing fundamental keeping them there - but there is the classic "cluster" effect where it makes sense for competing companies to group together in the same geographical area. "

    Certainly the City has numerous advantages at this time - as once did the British shipbuilding and motorcycle making industries.

    But whether it keeps them is another matter as economic and political power shifts to Asia.

    And even though being at the top is a nice place to be it still requires continuous improvment to maintain that position.

    Is the City capable of that anymore or is it like most things that reached a peak liable to fall prey to complacency, self congratulation and self-indulgance. Six years ago many people would have argued that British retail banks were world leaders, we know what has happened since. How much of the City might go the same way over the next generation or two?

    And if the City isn't able to achieve continuous improvement it will still be in a high cost, high tax, high regulation area vulnerable to overseas competitors able to provide a cheaper and/or better product.

    Remember that Amsterdam, Lisbon and Venice were once among the great centres of financial services, where are they now?



  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,335
    Tom Watson writing in Comment is Free - The Labour party must get ready for the next generation
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    antifrank said:

    What we have no sense of here is how passionately the public oppose (or support) this privatisation. My suspicion is that this will raise the passions of many, especially elderly voters. This cannot be good news for either coalition party.

    Despite the fact (as I understand it) Royal Mail [which is to be privatised] is nothing to do with Post Office Counters [which will remain in public ownership].

    I suspect more people care about POC - which has a real impact on their day-to-day life - than Royal Mail
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,173

    An interesting analysis of the mountain the Scottish separatists have to climb:

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/eddie-barnes-reasons-for-backing-the-union-1-3081868

    LOL, you are easily taken in
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    FPT Charles:

    "In my industry, at least, without QA/QC you don't have a product."

    You musn't mistake produce a quality product with producing a QAed product.

    In my experience most of the time spent following QA procedures in accordance with the latest British Standard or government regulation is pointless, even counterproductive.

    I'll accept my industry has specific regulations and requirements.

    But if you don't meet QA standards then the regulators will shut the manufacturing plant. Inspections are at least every 3 years plus on an ad hoc basis in between. And it's an absolute bugger to get them up and running again once they are shut.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    FPT Charles:

    " We have a number of advantages - language, location etc. Additionally, we have easy access to the global law of business (English), and a relatively predictable and attractive tax and regualtory system.

    This means we attract more than our fair share of talented international individuals to London to work in financial services. There's nothing fundamental keeping them there - but there is the classic "cluster" effect where it makes sense for competing companies to group together in the same geographical area. "

    Certainly the City has numerous advantages at this time - as once did the British shipbuilding and motorcycle making industries.

    But whether it keeps them is another matter as economic and political power shifts to Asia.

    And even though being at the top is a nice place to be it still requires continuous improvment to maintain that position.

    Is the City capable of that anymore or is it like most things that reached a peak liable to fall prey to complacency, self congratulation and self-indulgance. Six years ago many people would have argued that British retail banks were world leaders, we know what has happened since. How much of the City might go the same way over the next generation or two?

    And if the City isn't able to achieve continuous improvement it will still be in a high cost, high tax, high regulation area vulnerable to overseas competitors able to provide a cheaper and/or better product.

    Remember that Amsterdam, Lisbon and Venice were once among the great centres of financial services, where are they now?



    There's no complacency, believe me. It's why there is so much focus on regulations drafted by Eurocrats who don't understand and don't care about the financial services industry.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited September 2013
    And in other news...

    the last survivor of the Führerbunker has died aged 96.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochus_Misch
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    On Topic.

    I assume the Tories are going to write in a rigged market to subsidise rural voters, despite all their free market rhetoric?

    It's not a rigged market. Royal Mail will be free to compete as it sees fit, subject to a requirement to maintain a single universal price. This obligation will likely reduce the value of the asset to be sold.

    That's a legitimate political choice. Not one I agree with, as it happens, but it's not a rigged market.
  • Charles said:

    FPT Charles:

    " We have a number of advantages - language, location etc. Additionally, we have easy access to the global law of business (English), and a relatively predictable and attractive tax and regualtory system.

    This means we attract more than our fair share of talented international individuals to London to work in financial services. There's nothing fundamental keeping them there - but there is the classic "cluster" effect where it makes sense for competing companies to group together in the same geographical area. "

    Certainly the City has numerous advantages at this time - as once did the British shipbuilding and motorcycle making industries.

    But whether it keeps them is another matter as economic and political power shifts to Asia.

    And even though being at the top is a nice place to be it still requires continuous improvment to maintain that position.

    Is the City capable of that anymore or is it like most things that reached a peak liable to fall prey to complacency, self congratulation and self-indulgance. Six years ago many people would have argued that British retail banks were world leaders, we know what has happened since. How much of the City might go the same way over the next generation or two?

    And if the City isn't able to achieve continuous improvement it will still be in a high cost, high tax, high regulation area vulnerable to overseas competitors able to provide a cheaper and/or better product.

    Remember that Amsterdam, Lisbon and Venice were once among the great centres of financial services, where are they now?



    There's no complacency, believe me. It's why there is so much focus on regulations drafted by Eurocrats who don't understand and don't care about the financial services industry.
    Its complacent to claim there's no complacency.

    So you have shown that you are complacent.

    What you should have said was "becoming complacent is a worry and one which we must continually guard against".

    RBS etc would have said "There's no complacency, believe me" in 2007 and prior.

    Likewise the support that the City has shown for all things EU was itself complacent as it didn't allow for the possibility that the EU would act in an anti-City manner.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    An interesting analysis of the mountain the Scottish separatists have to climb:
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/eddie-barnes-reasons-for-backing-the-union-1-3081868

    malcolmg said:


    LOL, you are easily taken in

    It's just a series of NO anecdotes strung together with some editorial. You could write an entirely different article based on another five people you've met in the SNP pub next door. Whatever the politics of any situation I really get irritated by lazy journalism like this. The BBC are past-masters at it.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,173
    Charles said:

    tim said:

    On Topic.

    I assume the Tories are going to write in a rigged market to subsidise rural voters, despite all their free market rhetoric?

    It's not a rigged market. Royal Mail will be free to compete as it sees fit, subject to a requirement to maintain a single universal price. This obligation will likely reduce the value of the asset to be sold.

    That's a legitimate political choice. Not one I agree with, as it happens, but it's not a rigged market.
    So they have to provide the expensive single universal price, the others have a free hand to cherry pick, you have a strange idea of a fair market. Bit like making one bank pay 5% interest on savings and the rest do as they wish , very fair indeed. Do you realise how stupid that makes you sound
  • Veronica King won Elmet & Rothwell Labour selection.

    Running total of Unite backed candidates

    15 won
    19 lost
    6 to go
  • Charles said:

    FPT Charles:

    "In my industry, at least, without QA/QC you don't have a product."

    You musn't mistake produce a quality product with producing a QAed product.

    In my experience most of the time spent following QA procedures in accordance with the latest British Standard or government regulation is pointless, even counterproductive.

    I'll accept my industry has specific regulations and requirements.

    But if you don't meet QA standards then the regulators will shut the manufacturing plant. Inspections are at least every 3 years plus on an ad hoc basis in between. And it's an absolute bugger to get them up and running again once they are shut.
    QA is the business equivalent of the box ticking social worker.

    "I know that the child died / product was crap but all the procedures were adhered to."

  • MrJones said:

    Quincel said:

    Telling how UKIP's figures look like the LDs and Labour instead of the Tories. Their support-base is more nostalgic about the past than it is supportive of the free market.

    Replacing public monopolies with private monopolies and cartels has got nothing to do with free markets.
    True, although a public-sector organisation operating in a free market is likely to be hamstrung by all sorts of factors, from ministerial meddling to a lack of investment to overly powerful unions. They can get away with it to start with if they are by far the dominant player but even then, others will chip away at that position and they'll erode in time.

    But yes, the important thing is a regulated and competitive market, rather than who owns the participants.
  • @another_richard - No problem!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,687
    Doesn't Bob Crow already have a left-wing anti-Eu party, the TUSC?

    On topic, I was one of the rebels on Mandelson's plan to privatise 49% and got called in for a personal appeal. We talked through the politics of it, which were awful - the party was solidly opposed, and the other parties were just itching to go 100%. I wasn't impressed. Then he said, "And there's also the point that it's right, though. That should still count for something, don't you think? The Mail does need new technology and energy, and the 49-51% split is a reasonable compromise."

    I'd so bought into the image of Mandy as a brilliant schemer and nothing but that it impressed me that, 12 years into the government, he was still searching for new policies that would make things better rather than just maneuvering. (I still didn't buy it, mainly because I was sure the Tories and Libdems would then top it up to 100%, which IMO is against the public interest.)

    The main snag as far as popular opinion goes is that the Bill doesn't guarantee the Post Office link for long. People probably don't care that much who delivers the post, but they like their POs, especially in the smaller townms and villages.
  • GeoffM said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Has anyone read this article? The Gun-Loving Liberal Democrats sound amazing:

    He said Tony Abbott faces challenges to some of his landmark policies.
    "We wouldn't stop him from getting rid of the carbon tax," he said.
    "But when it comes to his big spending plans he may be in trouble, such as direct action on climate change and his paid parental leave - he won't be getting any support from us.
    "We would much rather have tax cuts."
    Mr Leyonhjelm described his party as libertarian and said it advocated less government control, assisted suicide, a flat 20 per cent income tax rate and giving people right to carry concealed weapons for their personal safety.
    I want to vote for these people. This. Is. My. Party.

    Mr Abbott's mob sounds like a pretty Good Egg party too:

    "Abbott next pledged to deliver: "A government of no surprises and no excuses. A government that understands the limits of power as well as its potential."

    Key phrase: "the limits of power." To Australians who are justifiably sick of governments using our money for everything from defining art to changing the weather, Abbott's embrace of limits is a delicious moment."

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/mr-deeds-comes-to-town-with-real-plan/story-fni0cwl5-1226714771096
  • The main snag as far as popular opinion goes is that the Bill doesn't guarantee the Post Office link for long. People probably don't care that much who delivers the post, but they like their POs, especially in the smaller townms and villages.

    I'm sure you'll be assiduous in pointing out to anyone who asks that there isn't the faintest connection between Royal Mail privatisation and the future of post offices.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited September 2013



    Its complacent to claim there's no complacency.

    So you have shown that you are complacent.

    What you should have said was "becoming complacent is a worry and one which we must continually guard against".

    RBS etc would have said "There's no complacency, believe me" in 2007 and prior.

    Likewise the support that the City has shown for all things EU was itself complacent as it didn't allow for the possibility that the EU would act in an anti-City manner.

    I spend my life worrying about regulation and competition.

    Believe me there is no complacency - of course we guard against it developing.

    I just didn't feel the need to point out the flaming obvious.
This discussion has been closed.