If I were a Tory, Chuka would be the one I feared. The guy just oozes confidence and entrepreneurial charm. I predict that jobs and investment will be the overwhelming political issue of the post-Brexit years. If Chuka can charm the doers and the makers, and the Tories are being led by a Luddite, then Chuka's presence could prove deadly for them.
Stand back a moment. Imagine Chukka trying to sell himself to Mrs. Duffy in Rochdale...
Labour needs somebody who knows what the inside of a Working Mens Club looks like, not another mushy-pea/guacomole mistaker...
What are the Shadow Cabinet playing at? Are they having arguments about whether to jump on the count of 3 or after the count of 3?
They've agreed that while they respect the collective decision to jump, they don't actually think jumping is a very good idea, and maybe a little hop on the spot would be sufficient to fulfil the terms of the democratic mandate.
Surely UKIP would dissolve now as a threat against the Tory right with a Leave leader and have to ruthlessly target the Labour Party working class that have voted Leave.
If we're out of the EU, or if the Conservative Party have a committed Leave leader, I would expect UKIP's support to fizzle.
I would too, I fully expected UKIP to dissolve and disappear. But I didn't count on Labour and the Lib Dems deciding to go "double or quits" on backing Remain. Who's going to take seats in places like Sunderland if Labour pledge to ignore the referendum result?
Labour's leadership won't change now because the membership won't have it, Corbyn will only be replaced by McDonnell who was never a passionate Europhile anyway. If people want to keep the EU banner flying they should join the LDs!
If there is another Labour leadership election then I don't think a Corbynite winner is an absolute given. Favourite certainly but thousands of people like SO and myself would rejoin to vote for a credible leader.
You would still be comfortably outvoted by the rest of the membership. Until Corbyn and McDonnell are rejected in a general election the Labour membership will not even consider a more electable centrist so there is no point even trying!
IDS has said that the new Tory Leader/PM should be a Leaver. That would be a mistake. If the economy goes into recession or slows significantly it will be blamed on Brexit, true or not. The Leader will lose authority and perhaps the next GE. Theresa May is the logical choice.
I am coming round to May even though I don't like the authoritarian streak in her.
Richard What about Lynn Truss? I have only just read Buncos piece about her-I have always thought she performed well and was disappointed when she support remain but she is clearly made of strong stuff.
Surely UKIP would dissolve now as a threat against the Tory right with a Leave leader and have to ruthlessly target the Labour Party working class that have voted Leave.
If we're out of the EU, or if the Conservative Party have a committed Leave leader, I would expect UKIP's support to fizzle.
I would too, I fully expected UKIP to dissolve and disappear. But I didn't count on Labour and the Lib Dems deciding to go "double or quits" on backing Remain. Who's going to take seats in places like Sunderland if Labour pledge to ignore the referendum result?
Labour's leadership won't change now because the membership won't have it, Corbyn will only be replaced by McDonnell who was never a passionate Europhile anyway. If people want to keep the EU banner flying they should join the LDs!
If there is another Labour leadership election then I don't think a Corbynite winner is an absolute given. Favourite certainly but thousands of people like SO and myself would rejoin to vote for a credible leader.
You would still be comfortably outvoted by the rest of the membership. Until Corbyn and McDonnell are rejected in a general election the Labour membership will not even consider a more electable centrist so there is no point even trying!
Not so sure. If a genuine leader emerges, they will win.
If I were a Tory, Chuka would be the one I feared. The guy just oozes confidence and entrepreneurial charm. I predict that jobs and investment will be the overwhelming political issue of the post-Brexit years. If Chuka can charm the doers and the makers, and the Tories are being led by a Luddite, then Chuka's presence could prove deadly for them.
Stand back a moment. Imagine Chukka trying to sell himself to Mrs. Duffy in Rochdale...
Labour needs somebody who knows what the inside of a Working Mens Club looks like, not another mushy-pea/guacomole mistaker...
If I were a Tory, Chuka would be the one I feared. The guy just oozes confidence and entrepreneurial charm. I predict that jobs and investment will be the overwhelming political issue of the post-Brexit years. If Chuka can charm the doers and the makers, and the Tories are being led by a Luddite, then Chuka's presence could prove deadly for them.
Stand back a moment. Imagine Chukka trying to sell himself to Mrs. Duffy in Rochdale...
Labour needs somebody who knows what the inside of a Working Mens Club looks like, not another mushy-pea/guacomole mistaker...
I'm sure I just heard someone on the news say that Benn has ruled himself out of the Labour leadership. Anyone confirm this? Might be important for betting...
Yes.
Thanks. I'll put my money on McDonnell. The membership won't wear anyone who isn't from the left.
The PLP won't nominate anyone who is from the left. The Left only keeps the Leadership by Corbyn keeping it as auto-nominated in any leadership contest, or getting an agreement signed in blood that he goes only on condition that Person X gets on the ballot - that wouldn't be one of the old guard, maybe Nandy or Lewis.
This is the most cogent interview i have seen in the last 3 days from any politician with Blair on the Sunday politics. Not talking the country down. Saying everybody should calm down and take stock.
Blair was very good indeed.
Pity he shat in his own bed over Iraq. He would still have a role. Not now.
I wonder whose legacy will be tarnished more; Blair by Iraq Cameron by Brexit
Gordon Brown has the best reputation of all C21 Prime Ministers.
IDS has said that the new Tory Leader/PM should be a Leaver. That would be a mistake. If the economy goes into recession or slows significantly it will be blamed on Brexit, true or not. The Leader will lose authority and perhaps the next GE. Theresa May is the logical choice.
I am coming round to May even though I don't like the authoritarian streak in her.
Richard What about Lynn Truss? I have only just read Buncos piece about her-I have always thought she performed well and was disappointed when she support remain but she is clearly made of strong stuff.
If I were a Tory, Chuka would be the one I feared. The guy just oozes confidence and entrepreneurial charm. I predict that jobs and investment will be the overwhelming political issue of the post-Brexit years. If Chuka can charm the doers and the makers, and the Tories are being led by a Luddite, then Chuka's presence could prove deadly for them.
Maybe but Labour's membership will not even consider Chuka until they lose a general election
This really cannot go on in the face of the current uncertainty. Cameron needs to accelerate the transfer of power to days rather than months. Whether that will allow the party the full membership ballot I am not sure. They would need to move very fast. It may be that the MP who gets the most support in the Parliamentary party could take over as interim leader pending the membership's decision but even that would increase the period of uncertainty in a dangerous way.
It's tricky - as a country it would probably help us to delay making the article 50 until all our ducks are in a row, a period of several months at least, but it's getting to be utter chaos before then and government will cease. ..
But the article 50 is a 2 year process with possible extensions so starting it is not definitive. What I want our new government to look for is: -Access to the Single Market for both goods and services and _ Some control on immigration from the EU such as having to have a confirmed ....
I genuinely believe that this is a doable deal but it needs clear leadership and cool heads. At the moment our political class are providing neither.
The hints from Germany who tend to have a lot of sway are for a deal that is less than the EEA. reduced access to the single market but probably no supranational court and possibly a reduced freedom of movement requirement. I'm wondering if they would tie the UK into the EU's international trade deals. I can see advantages for both sides to that.
The Germans want to sell us cars and other engineering products without tariffs or hindrance. Fair enough but there has to be a quid pro quo for that and that means the single passport remains for our financial services. Obviously our financial services industry will have to comply with EU regs when dealing within the EU and they will need to accept ultimate supervision by the ECB.
There will be a haggle and Britain has cards to play and a deal will be struck although it's not clear who is going to strike the deal from our side. The strong indications are that the EEA is off the table. It is highly unlikely to include the Financial Passport. That's one benefit to the rEU of us flouncing off. In any case it requires ECJ and ECB oversight. No-one will trust on that, even if we wanted it ourselves. So that's the space in which the haggle will take place.
If I were a Tory, Chuka would be the one I feared. The guy just oozes confidence and entrepreneurial charm. I predict that jobs and investment will be the overwhelming political issue of the post-Brexit years. If Chuka can charm the doers and the makers, and the Tories are being led by a Luddite, then Chuka's presence could prove deadly for them.
Stand back a moment. Imagine Chukka trying to sell himself to Mrs. Duffy in Rochdale...
Labour needs somebody who knows what the inside of a Working Mens Club looks like, not another mushy-pea/guacomole mistaker...
Yes, I'm sure Mrs Duffy would cry 'You're one of them bleedin' immigrants' and run off. I'm not a Labour supporter, but I suspect all those urging them to become Red BNP (and there are several around here) don't necessarily have the party's best interests at heart.
Fox calling for a 2005 style leadership contest. I am gobsmacked!
Have the Tories completely lost the plot?
I wonder if they'll say that on Monday if the markets are in turmoil.
I get that no one wants to put their head above the parapet, but someone needs to say that this is bonkers. I'm all in favour of not rushing into anything, but this is not about the Tory Party - this is about the country.
Talk of another seven resignations in the pipeline for Jezza...
I have wondered whether a lot of this is because they want to get him out of the leaders chair before Chilcot... Just in case he demands Tony Blair's arrest and prosecution for war crimes?
The UK, soon to be late UK, is definitely going nuts. It would be nice if we could take a few years out from the world to sort ourselves out, but we don't have time. So I hope we are only temporarily nuts - I will be very embarrassed in 6-12 months if I have to apologise to Mr Meeks and say he was right.
I wonder how many Regrexiters there are....3 days after? Sterling and the markets will go into melt down next week- the 20% Brexit correction that we were warned of may come much sooner than anticipated.
Sterling rallied by the end of trading last week
Can't make any real judgement either way on the economic consequences of Brexit based on 1 day's trading.
Funny, that is what the whole Remain camp on here seemed to be doing on Friday.
Yes small details like the Nikkei falling by twice the FTSE and the Dow falling by slightly more were completely ignored. An incredibly parochial view.
To be fair, I don't think anyone was ever suggesting that the economic consequences of Brexit would be contained within Britain's borders.
Exactly. And FTSE 250 - far more reflective of sentiment around UK companies - fell around 8%.
The real danger posed by Brexit is the flow of capital out of the UK by foreign industry as businesses look for other countries to access the single market. This risk particularly affects London, but will affect the whole economy.
And, the EU will only give us access to the common market if we accept free movement of labour. That is fundamentally why the political crisis we are in is greater than the economic crisis. Brexit has let the immigration genie out of the bottle.
My guess is that Johnson will understand this.....and go for an early election on this mandate and trust that the Labour party takes the fallout, a reasonable assumption to make.
You've got to admire the Leave Tories' honesty - we've now had complete row-back from every major Leave commitment.........
I had not noticed any statement from a member of the Government on this. Could you please link to that or are you refering to people for LEAVE that are not actually in Cabinet or in a more junior role of Government?
There is no official spokesman for Leave so sadly we aren't going to get any definitive responses any time soon . However it is very clear that every Leaver I have seen interviewed is saying something different to what they were saying this time last week. Practically every Leaver has admitted that the £350m a week for the NHS was bollocks and Leave spokesman have been all over the shop regarding immigration. Interesting times
This really cannot go on in the face of the current uncertainty. Cameron needs to accelerate the transfer of power to days rather than months. Whether that will allow the party the full membership ballot I am not sure. They would need to move very fast. It may be that the MP who gets the most support in the Parliamentary party could take over as interim leader pending the membership's decision but even that would increase the period of uncertainty in a dangerous way.
It's tricky - as a country it would probably help us to delay making the article 50 until all our ducks are in a row, a period of several months at least, but it's getting to be utter chaos before then and government will cease. ..
But the article 50 is a 2 year process with possible extensions so starting it is not definitive. What I want our new government to look for is: -Access to the Single Market for both goods and services and _ Some control on immigration from the EU such as having to have a confirmed ....
I genuinely believe that this is a doable deal but it needs clear leadership and cool heads. At the moment our political class are providing neither.
The hints from Germany who tend to have a lot of sway are for a deal that is less than the EEA. reduced access to the single market but probably no supranational court and possibly a reduced freedom of movement requirement. I'm wondering if they would tie the UK into the EU's international trade deals. I can see advantages for both sides to that.
The Germans want to sell us cars and other engineering products without tariffs or hindrance. Fair enough but there has to be a quid pro quo for that and that means the single passport remains for our financial services. Obviously our financial services industry will have to comply with EU regs when dealing within the EU and they will need to accept ultimate supervision by the ECB.
There will be a haggle and Britain has cards to play and a deal will be struck although it's not clear who is going to strike the deal from our side. The strong indications are that the EEA is off the table. It is highly unlikely to include the Financial Passport. That's one benefit to the rEU of us flouncing off. In any case it requires ECJ and ECB oversight. No-one will trust on that, even if we wanted it ourselves. So that's the space in which the haggle will take place.
I think we will get a Financial Passport but as I have indicated we will need to accept terms of regulation that are ok now but may become more onerous as the EZ integrates further. A FTT has to be a risk.
IDS has said that the new Tory Leader/PM should be a Leaver. That would be a mistake. If the economy goes into recession or slows significantly it will be blamed on Brexit, true or not. The Leader will lose authority and perhaps the next GE. Theresa May is the logical choice.
I am coming round to May even though I don't like the authoritarian streak in her.
Richard What about Lynn Truss? I have only just read Buncos piece about her-I have always thought she performed well and was disappointed when she support remain but she is clearly made of strong stuff.
Honestly she has not even really been on my radar so I would need to read up a lot more about her before saying anything.
Talk of another seven resignations in the pipeline for Jezza...
I have wondered whether a lot of this is because they want to get him out of the leaders chair before Chilcot... Just in case he demands Tony Blair's arrest and prosecution for war crimes?
Nope. People want Corbyn out because he is a poor leader and the country needs strong opposition and a viable alternative government.
If I were a Tory, Chuka would be the one I feared. The guy just oozes confidence and entrepreneurial charm. I predict that jobs and investment will be the overwhelming political issue of the post-Brexit years. If Chuka can charm the doers and the makers, and the Tories are being led by a Luddite, then Chuka's presence could prove deadly for them.
Stand back a moment. Imagine Chukka trying to sell himself to Mrs. Duffy in Rochdale...
Labour needs somebody who knows what the inside of a Working Mens Club looks like, not another mushy-pea/guacomole mistaker...
I'm sure I just heard someone on the news say that Benn has ruled himself out of the Labour leadership. Anyone confirm this? Might be important for betting...
He ruled himself out on Marr.
McDonnell did the same on Sunday Politics.
2 non starters there.
On the Tory side it looks the same. No one wants to be incharge of disaster.
Boris not got experience? He has been executive president of a "country" with a bigger population than Belgium for 8 years.
1) Belgium's less of a real country than London
2) I said gravitas and experience.
He doesn't have gravitas? I thought that three months ago sure, but he has surely developed gravitas in leading a campaign to get 17 million to vote for what he was fronting. Even his somber 'victory speech' showed class and gravitas.
Boris is two faced.. there for everyone to see. Sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver.
17 million people say you're wrong. BoJo has beaten John Major's long-standing 1992 record.
they were not voting for Boris....
It is true that the 17 million were not voting for Boris but look at it from the hard-headed point of view of a Tory backbench MP, especially in a marginal seat. Boris led Leave, the underdog, to a famous victory. Boris twice won the London mayoralty, in a Labour-leaning city. Boris has voter-appeal.
So leave aside thoughts of trust and betrayal -- who is best placed to save your neck and your seat? Boris or the colourless and cynically low-profile pair of May and Hammond? Boris or some yet to be determined acolyte of George Osborne? Boris or defeat?
Of course, if MPs are high-minded and vote on who is best placed to negotiate Brexit and beyond, Boris is stuffed. But are they?
Good post. A month ago, I didn't think Boris was in anyway qualified - Hell even a week ago I wasn't convinced. However, he's been much more together and serious since Thursday's result.
Seriously, do the PB Leavers honestly believe the EU campaign was fought on the substantive issues. This is a serious question. Will at least one of them with half a brain cell please answer this?
Yes.
To be fair, Richard has been posting here about the technicalities of the common market post exit, and what deals could be made. But that represented 0.00001% of the campaign. The other 99.99% was devoted to immigration, lies like the 350 million for the NHS, and empty slogans....let's get back control.
So, 0.00001% discussed a sensible post Brexit future. The rest was utter tosh.
DavidL - German industry might want to sell us cars but I'm sure their financial sector and France's too would be quite keen to take some of the City's business. Another reason why I think Scotland might be disappointed.
Talk of another seven resignations in the pipeline for Jezza...
I have wondered whether a lot of this is because they want to get him out of the leaders chair before Chilcot... Just in case he demands Tony Blair's arrest and prosecution for war crimes?
Nope. People want Corbyn out because he is a poor leader and the country needs strong opposition and a viable alternative government.
I think we will get a Financial Passport but as I have indicated we will need to accept terms of regulation that are ok now but may become more onerous as the EZ integrates further. A FTT has to be a risk.
The City could run parallel markets: the official EU one (with FTT or anything else), and the London pseudo-Euro one based on UK rules.
You've got to admire the Leave Tories' honesty - we've now had complete row-back from every major Leave commitment.........
I had not noticed any statement from a member of the Government on this. Could you please link to that or are you refering to people for LEAVE that are not actually in Cabinet or in a more junior role of Government?
There is no official spokesman for Leave so sadly we aren't going to get any definitive responses any time soon . However it is very clear that every Leaver I have seen interviewed is saying something different to what they were saying this time last week. Practically every Leaver has admitted that the £350m a week for the NHS was bollocks and Leave spokesman have been all over the shop regarding immigration. Interesting times
There were official Vote Leave spokespeople (which does not include Farage), eg the three who took part on the BBC Great Debate. On that they were specifically asked if they were talking of particular number for immigration and they said no they would not get into numbers they were talking about control.
Now people are reacting with mock horror that people have said they were talking about control and not numbers.
Maybe if pundits and Remainers were listening to what Leavers were actually saying, rather than what they pretended Leave was saying, they wouldn't be so surprised today now that they're suddenly listening.
This is the most cogent interview i have seen in the last 3 days from any politician with Blair on the Sunday politics. Not talking the country down. Saying everybody should calm down and take stock.
Blair was very good indeed.
Pity he shat in his own bed over Iraq. He would still have a role. Not now.
I wonder whose legacy will be tarnished more; Blair by Iraq Cameron by Brexit
Gordon Brown has the best reputation of all C21 Prime Ministers.
and he kept us out of the Euro!
Yes and he saved the world too.
Which is ironic as its his social engineering which created our unrepairable structural deficit and this mess....
I'm sure I just heard someone on the news say that Benn has ruled himself out of the Labour leadership. Anyone confirm this? Might be important for betting...
So, has McDonnell apparentoly but about as credible as Heseltine's 'I can see no circumstances'
Pretty good spread on the second ref petition - dominated by the usual suspects, naturally, but getting thousands in constituencies across the board. I feel sorry for Remainer MPs in any debate on it 'We'd like to everyone, but it ain't gonna happen'.
A second Referendum would give a more decisive win for Leave.
t No evidence at all for that. If anything there are precedents about 2nd referenda getting different results. Not going to happen though.
The UK, soon to be late UK, is definitely going nuts. It would be nice if we could take a few years out from the world to sort ourselves out, but we don't have time. So I hope we are only temporarily nuts - I will be very embarrassed in 6-12 months if I have to apologise to Mr Meeks and say he was right.
Oh cheer up ffs! Aston Martin are building a new factory in Wales, Bloomberg and Morgan Stanley aren't leaving, Sturgeon has been refused Scotland's continued EU membership without re-applying, and some people are making utter tits of themselves with a democratic petition to overturn a democratic referendum! I am sure the forces of IN aren't going to go quietly, but fate is not on their side. We didn't snag a truly miraculous win for nothing.
IDS has said that the new Tory Leader/PM should be a Leaver. That would be a mistake. If the economy goes into recession or slows significantly it will be blamed on Brexit, true or not. The Leader will lose authority and perhaps the next GE. Theresa May is the logical choice.
I am coming round to May even though I don't like the authoritarian streak in her.
If I were a Tory, Chuka would be the one I feared. The guy just oozes confidence and entrepreneurial charm. I predict that jobs and investment will be the overwhelming political issue of the post-Brexit years. If Chuka can charm the doers and the makers, and the Tories are being led by a Luddite, then Chuka's presence could prove deadly for them.
He oozes snake oil and smugness. I have yet to see a more dodgy looking/sounding character. For sure you would need to count your fingers after shaking hands with him.
I can't imagine anyone less likely to appeal to ordinary Labour voters than Chuka. Even Tristram Hunt is more in touch.
So given the cavalcade of Brexit Leaders who have now said there is no more money for the NHS, immigration won't be lowered and voters who didn't understand that are stupid it seems the only people who have contempt for the electorate are them.
Maybe if pundits and Remainers were listening to what Leavers were actually saying, rather than what they pretended Leave was saying, they wouldn't be so surprised today now that they're suddenly listening.
Probably true for many of those who voted Leave as well.
The UK, soon to be late UK, is definitely going nuts. It would be nice if we could take a few years out from the world to sort ourselves out, but we don't have time. So I hope we are only temporarily nuts - I will be very embarrassed in 6-12 months if I have to apologise to Mr Meeks and say he was right.
Oh cheer up ffs! Aston Martin are building a new factory in Wales, Bloomberg and Morgan Stanley aren't leaving, Sturgeon has been refused Scotland's continued EU membership without re-applying, and some people are making utter tits of themselves with a democratic petition to overturn a democratic referendum! I am sure the forces of IN aren't going to go quietly, but fate is not on their side. We didn't snag a truly miraculous win for nothing.
"We didn't snag a truly miraculous win for nothing."
No, you did it at the price of other people's jobs and almost certainly a shrunken NHS as our GDP falls.
This really cannot go on in the face of the current uncertainty. Cameron needs to accelerate the transfer of power to days rather than months. Whether that will allow the party the full membership ballot I am not sure. They would need to move very fast. It may be that the MP who gets the most support in the Parliamentary party could take over as interim leader pending the membership's decision but even that would increase the period of uncertainty in a dangerous way.
It's tricky - as a country it would probably help us to delay making the article 50 until all our ducks are in a row, a period of several months at least, but it's getting to be utter chaos before then and government will cease. ..
But the article 50 is ....
The hints from Germany who tend to have a lot of sway are for a deal that is less than the EEA. reduced access to the single market but probably no supranational court and possibly a reduced freedom of movement requirement. I'm wondering if they would tie the UK into the EU's international trade deals. I can see advantages for both sides to that.
The Germans want to sell us cars and other engineering products without tariffs or hindrance. Fair enough but there has to be a quid pro quo for that and that means the single passport remains for our financial services. Obviousl . . y
There will be a haggle and Britain has cards to play and a deal will be struck although it's not clear who is going to strike the deal from our side. The strong indications are that the EEA is off the table. It is highly unlikely to include the Financial Passport. That's one benefit to the rEU of us flouncing off. In any case it requires ECJ and ECB oversight. No-one will trust on that, even if we wanted it ourselves. So that's the space in which the haggle will take place.
I think we will get a Financial Passport but as I have indicated we will need to accept terms of regulation that are ok now but may become more onerous as the EZ integrates further. A FTT has to be a risk.
Sorry, I meant financial services will mostly be excluded from the deal. So no Financial Passport and no ECB oversight. No-one will trust is on that anyway. Other people here have said the UK would never agree to that deal. I believe it will on the basis that it's better than nothing and there is just enough haggle room to make it acceptable.
The UK, soon to be late UK, is definitely going nuts. It would be nice if we could take a few years out from the world to sort ourselves out, but we don't have time. So I hope we are only temporarily nuts - I will be very embarrassed in 6-12 months if I have to apologise to Mr Meeks and say he was right.
Oh cheer up ffs! Aston Martin are building a new factory in Wales, Bloomberg and Morgan Stanley aren't leaving, Sturgeon has been refused Scotland's continued EU membership without re-applying, and some people are making utter tits of themselves with a democratic petition to overturn a democratic referendum! I am sure the forces of IN aren't going to go quietly, but fate is not on their side. We didn't snag a truly miraculous win for nothing.
I've been out and about in "The Shires" this morning and everyone seems perfectly calm and happy.
The UK, soon to be late UK, is definitely going nuts. It would be nice if we could take a few years out from the world to sort ourselves out, but we don't have time. So I hope we are only temporarily nuts - I will be very embarrassed in 6-12 months if I have to apologise to Mr Meeks and say he was right.
Oh cheer up ffs! Aston Martin are building a new factory in Wales, Bloomberg and Morgan Stanley aren't leaving, Sturgeon has been refused Scotland's continued EU membership without re-applying, and some people are making utter tits of themselves with a democratic petition to overturn a democratic referendum! I am sure the forces of IN aren't going to go quietly, but fate is not on their side. We didn't snag a truly miraculous win for nothing.
I think we're going to see a lot more of this kind of post in the coming months and years - no Brexit benefits, merely anything just short of a cosmic calamity being hailed as a triumph.
The UK, soon to be late UK, is definitely going nuts. It would be nice if we could take a few years out from the world to sort ourselves out, but we don't have time. So I hope we are only temporarily nuts - I will be very embarrassed in 6-12 months if I have to apologise to Mr Meeks and say he was right.
I wonder how many Regrexiters there are....3 days after? Sterling and the markets will go into melt down next week- the 20% Brexit correction that we were warned of may come much sooner than anticipated.
Sterling rallied by the end of trading last week
Can't make any real judgement either way on the economic consequences of Brexit based on 1 day's trading.
Funny, that is what the whole Remain camp on here seemed to be doing on Friday.
Yes small details like the Nikkei falling by twice the FTSE and the Dow falling by slightly more were completely ignored. An incredibly parochial view.
To be fair, I don't think anyone was ever suggesting that the economic consequences of Brexit would be contained within Britain's borders.
Exactly. And FTSE 250 - far more reflective of sentiment around UK companies - fell around 8%.
The FTSE 250 usually suffers much larger % swings than the 100. As recently as 16th June it was lower than it closed Friday. In February it was 900 points lower than it is now, having just suffered an 11% drop over 10 days. The only way to really look at this - as Tyson has said - is over a longer period.
Which doesn’t help Boris Johnson but does help Theresa May, who you can still back as 3/1 as next Tory leader, or you might consider like the many mistresses of Boris, should you be laying him?
TSE- undoubtedly the cleverest line I have read in pbCOM in my 12 years of venturing onto this site. So, I can guess you are on the anyone but Boris group.
FWIW- I know that you threatened to leave the Tory Party- but you won't. Like me with Corbyn, you'll stick around. Loyalty to your political party is too hard to shake off.
Lastly, New Order weren't that great last night. I hate myself for this, but Adele was much better.
I'm very proud of that line.
As for your last line, I'll pretend you didn't say that
TSE, I don't know if you saw my comment on the previous thread. Congratulations on working the T-Empo classic into the thread header.
It was more a reference to Richard Nixon, but I'll take any plaudits
That's my point. It was soooo subtle not even the legend that is TSE realised it was being made.
Where the hell is the govt today? Have they run away?
I get the impression Cameron is sulking and no one else currently has the authority to step up and do anything. He is after all still Prime Minister for the next 3 months.
He was at some veterans' event yesterday - he looked like he was being held hostage. He really doesn't want to the day job right now. Hopefully he'll pick himself back up and get on with it until a new leader is chosen.
You've got to admire the Leave Tories' honesty - we've now had complete row-back from every major Leave commitment.........
I had not noticed any statement from a member of the Government on this. Could you please link to that or are you refering to people for LEAVE that are not actually in Cabinet or in a more junior role of Government?
There is no official spokesman for Leave so sadly we aren't going to get any definitive responses any time soon . However it is very clear that every Leaver I have seen interviewed is saying something different to what they were saying this time last week. Practically every Leaver has admitted that the £350m a week for the NHS was bollocks and Leave spokesman have been all over the shop regarding immigration. Interesting times
There were official Vote Leave spokespeople (which does not include Farage), eg the three who took part on the BBC Great Debate. On that they were specifically asked if they were talking of particular number for immigration and they said no they would not get into numbers they were talking about control.
Now people are reacting with mock horror that people have said they were talking about control and not numbers.
Maybe if pundits and Remainers were listening to what Leavers were actually saying, rather than what they pretended Leave was saying, they wouldn't be so surprised today now that they're suddenly listening.
Ah yes , the famous control which means no change.
If I were a Tory, Chuka would be the one I feared. The guy just oozes confidence and entrepreneurial charm. I predict that jobs and investment will be the overwhelming political issue of the post-Brexit years. If Chuka can charm the doers and the makers, and the Tories are being led by a Luddite, then Chuka's presence could prove deadly for them.
Maybe but Labour's membership will not even consider Chuka until they lose a general election
Agree Chuka ticks a lot of boxes. Bit of a leap from.Corbyn though!
For Kremlinologists here, would Labour be ill advised to elect a Blairite pre-Chilcott Report?
If I were a Tory, Chuka would be the one I feared. The guy just oozes confidence and entrepreneurial charm. I predict that jobs and investment will be the overwhelming political issue of the post-Brexit years. If Chuka can charm the doers and the makers, and the Tories are being led by a Luddite, then Chuka's presence could prove deadly for them.
Stand back a moment. Imagine Chukka trying to sell himself to Mrs. Duffy in Rochdale...
Labour needs somebody who knows what the inside of a Working Mens Club looks like, not another mushy-pea/guacomole mistaker...
Yes, I'm sure Mrs Duffy would cry 'You're one of them bleedin' immigrants' and run off. I'm not a Labour supporter, but I suspect all those urging them to become Red BNP (and there are several around here) don't necessarily have the party's best interests at heart.
Duffy is a bigot. One of the very few things Brown did get right. Great line about Red BNP. That is a term that deserves to stick. If there is one good thing about this referendum, it's that liberal, pro-market, pro-immigration Europhile Labourites have realised that they have much more in common with the Tories' Europhile moderates than the traditionalist wing of their own party. Chuka can pick up Tory votes in the sensible centre ground if the Tories choose a eurosceptic right winger.
The UK, soon to be late UK, is definitely going nuts. It would be nice if we could take a few years out from the world to sort ourselves out, but we don't have time. So I hope we are only temporarily nuts - I will be very embarrassed in 6-12 months if I have to apologise to Mr Meeks and say he was right.
I wonder how many Regrexiters there are....3 days after? Sterling and the markets will go into melt down next week- the 20% Brexit correction that we were warned of may come much sooner than anticipated.
Sterling rallied by the end of trading last week
Can't make any real judgement either way on the economic consequences of Brexit based on 1 day's trading.
Funny, that is what the whole Remain camp on here seemed to be doing on Friday.
Yes small details like the Nikkei falling by twice the FTSE and the Dow falling by slightly more were completely ignored. An incredibly parochial view.
To be fair, I don't think anyone was ever suggesting that the economic consequences of Brexit would be contained within Britain's borders.
Exactly. And FTSE 250 - far more reflective of sentiment around UK companies - fell around 8%.
The FTSE 250 usually suffers much larger % swings than the 100. As recently as 16th June it was lower than it closed Friday. In February it was 900 points lower than it is now, having just suffered an 11% drop over 10 days. The only way to really look at this - as Tyson has said - is over a longer period.
I completely agree. Just pointing out that we need to look beyond the FTSE 100, which is not very reflective of sentiment around UK economy.
IDS has said that the new Tory Leader/PM should be a Leaver. That would be a mistake. If the economy goes into recession or slows significantly it will be blamed on Brexit, true or not. The Leader will lose authority and perhaps the next GE. Theresa May is the logical choice.
I am coming round to May even though I don't like the authoritarian streak in her.
What an odd libertarian.
Not really. "Coming round to" doesn't mean I will support her. It just means I have an open mind - which I would hope most people on here would have. In the end I suspect her authoritarian streak will mean she is not my choice (although of course I have no choice as I am not in the Tory party and do not intend being an Entryist)
This is the most cogent interview i have seen in the last 3 days from any politician with Blair on the Sunday politics. Not talking the country down. Saying everybody should calm down and take stock.
Blair was very good indeed.
Pity he shat in his own bed over Iraq. He would still have a role. Not now.
I wonder whose legacy will be tarnished more; Blair by Iraq Cameron by Brexit
Gordon Brown has the best reputation of all C21 Prime Ministers.
and he kept us out of the Euro!
And sold all our Gold reserves at their lows and stole many people pensions
pluses and minuses...
also not sure why Maude didn't say which way he voted. Seems a bit sneaky...
I know he's meant to be a Grade A monster - but Francis Maude did some excellent arse kicking over HMG contracts. I mentioned him as a possible person to get involved in the Brexit negotiations.
Can I just say that the arguments around 'what will happen next' have been more profound and informative here than at any other media outlet. Which is amazing really.
Just as in the run up to the EU Referendum, where the debate was terrific.
Well done people. The politicians failed miserably to educate us Welsh, perhaps they should make us all read PB.
Where the hell is the govt today? Have they run away?
I get the impression Cameron is sulking and no one else currently has the authority to step up and do anything. He is after all still Prime Minister for the next 3 months.
He was at some veterans' event yesterday - he looked like he was being held hostage. He really doesn't want to the day job right now. Hopefully he'll pick himself back up and get on with it until a new leader is chosen.
There's an awful photo of Cameron on the front of the Sunday Telegraph. He looks like the guy on a used car franchise who has been perennially passed over for promotion...
Labour could do worse than elect Frank Field or Gisela Stuart but they won't for obvious reasons. It would bring the North back faster than John Snow managed.
Del Piero is the prettiest ... but that's all I can add really. Yes, I'm shallow, I know.
If I were a Tory, Chuka would be the one I feared. The guy just oozes confidence and entrepreneurial charm. I predict that jobs and investment will be the overwhelming political issue of the post-Brexit years. If Chuka can charm the doers and the makers, and the Tories are being led by a Luddite, then Chuka's presence could prove deadly for them.
He oozes snake oil and smugness. I have yet to see a more dodgy looking/sounding character. For sure you would need to count your fingers after shaking hands with him.
I can't imagine anyone less likely to appeal to ordinary Labour voters than Chuka. Even Tristram Hunt is more in touch.
I'm not sure Tristram Hunt deserves such grief. Yes he's posh and yes Mandelson helped get him into Parliament. But I think he's a genuine old school social democrat. I don't think he's someone who would prioritise the City over the provincial economy.
I thought Marr's own piece at the beginning of his show today was excellent.
The French cannot be complacent when Marine Le Pen presently leads polls for their presidential election next year
Spending the weekend in Somerset with my French contacts. France is livid with us but Germany doing their best (and will succeed) in keeping them under control.
French anger driven by fact that Brexit materially increases risk of Le Pen winning - also why they want to make Brexit painful. View from establishment is that why I'm can survive Brexit France could not survive Frexit (Le Pen's policy - although she will just write off the debt).
Other concern is she had been bought and paid for by Putin. I don't know NATO Article 5 but my contact said that certain countries can veto collective action under Article 5, France being one of them. If Le Pen is president Putin will annex the Baltics. U.S. alone can only put in 0.5m and can't beat Russia. NATO collectively can do 3.0m and would win...
The UK, soon to be late UK, is definitely going nuts. It would be nice if we could take a few years out from the world to sort ourselves out, but we don't have time. So I hope we are only temporarily nuts - I will be very embarrassed in 6-12 months if I have to apologise to Mr Meeks and say he was right.
I wonder how many Regrexiters there are....3 days after? Sterling and the markets will go into melt down next week- the 20% Brexit correction that we were warned of may come much sooner than anticipated.
Sterling rallied by the end of trading last week
Can't make any real judgement either way on the economic consequences of Brexit based on 1 day's trading.
Funny, that is what the whole Remain camp on here seemed to be doing on Friday.
Yes small details like the Nikkei falling by twice the FTSE and the Dow falling by slightly more were completely ignored. An incredibly parochial view.
To be fair, I don't think anyone was ever suggesting that the economic consequences of Brexit would be contained within Britain's borders.
Exactly. And FTSE 250 - far more reflective of sentiment around UK companies - fell around 8%.
The FTSE 250 usually suffers much larger % swings than the 100. As recently as 16th June it was lower than it closed Friday. In February it was 900 points lower than it is now, having just suffered an 11% drop over 10 days. The only way to really look at this - as Tyson has said - is over a longer period.
I often end up liking and listening to those posters who engage with me more. LuckyGuy and his rice crispies tip won me over.
I did think 6 months, but I think the political crisis is going to make the 20% Brexit correction come in much harder and faster.
Monday is going to be chaotic I guess.
The Tory leadership contenders need to make a commitment to keeping the single market and fast, even if this includes free movement of Labour. Politically it represents a free hit, because the fallout will be in Labour heartlands. And I guess next week the Tory party will be much less Eurosceptic as people see the ensuing chaos.
The UK, soon to be late UK, is definitely going nuts. It would be nice if we could take a few years out from the world to sort ourselves out, but we don't have time. So I hope we are only temporarily nuts - I will be very embarrassed in 6-12 months if I have to apologise to Mr Meeks and say he was right.
I wonder how many Regrexiters there are....3 days after? Sterling and the markets will go into melt down next week- the 20% Brexit correction that we were warned of may come much sooner than anticipated.
Sterling rallied by the end of trading last week
Can't make any real judgement either way on the economic consequences of Brexit based on 1 day's trading.
Funny, that is what the whole Remain camp on here seemed to be doing on Friday.
Yes small details like the Nikkei falling by twice the FTSE and the Dow falling by slightly more were completely ignored. An incredibly parochial view.
To be fair, I don't think anyone was ever suggesting that the economic consequences of Brexit would be contained within Britain's borders.
Exactly. And FTSE 250 - far more reflective of sentiment around UK companies - fell around 8%.
The FTSE 250 usually suffers much larger % swings than the 100. As recently as 16th June it was lower than it closed Friday. In February it was 900 points lower than it is now, having just suffered an 11% drop over 10 days. The only way to really look at this - as Tyson has said - is over a longer period.
I completely agree. Just pointing out that we need to look beyond the FTSE 100, which is not very reflective of sentiment around UK economy.
Posted the same yesterday. Next week is a big week to get through.
The UK, soon to be late UK, is definitely going nuts. It would be nice if we could take a few years out from the world to sort ourselves out, but we don't have time. So I hope we are only temporarily nuts - I will be very embarrassed in 6-12 months if I have to apologise to Mr Meeks and say he was right.
I wonder how many Regrexiters there are....3 days after? Sterling and the markets will go into melt down next week- the 20% Brexit correction that we were warned of may come much sooner than anticipated.
Sterling rallied by the end of trading last week
Can't make any real judgement either way on the economic consequences of Brexit based on 1 day's trading.
Funny, that is what the whole Remain camp on here seemed to be doing on Friday.
Yes small details like the Nikkei falling by twice the FTSE and the Dow falling by slightly more were completely ignored. An incredibly parochial view.
The FTSE 250 fell rather more and you know exactly the reason the FTSE fell less. Do you seriously think that the economic fallout from Brexit has now finished? - if so you need to cut down on the whisky in the cornflakes.
The French cannot be complacent when Marine Le Pen presently leads polls for their presidential election next year
Spending the weekend in Somerset with my French contacts. France is livid with us but Germany doing their best (and will succeed) in keeping them under control.
French anger driven by fact that Brexit materially increases risk of Le Pen winning - also why they want to make Brexit painful. View from establishment is that why I'm can survive Brexit France could not survive Frexit (Le Pen's policy - although she will just write off the debt).
Other concern is she had been bought and paid for by Putin. I don't know NATO Article 5 but my contact said that certain countries can veto collective action under Article 5, France being one of them. If Le Pen is president Putin will annex the Baltics. U.S. alone can only put in 0.5m and can't beat Russia. NATO collectively can do 3.0m and would win...
Comments
Labour needs somebody who knows what the inside of a Working Mens Club looks like, not another mushy-pea/guacomole mistaker...
This is a full on popcorn morning.
What about Lynn Truss?
I have only just read Buncos piece about her-I have always thought she performed well and was disappointed when she support remain but she is clearly made of strong stuff.
Person says is my mistresses line is interesting when you read this story
Project smear: Boris Johnson hit by revenge plot as PM loyalists take aim at his turbulent private life
Allies of David Cameron coming at PM-in-waiting with simple message: You've killed off the PM, we'll get you
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1342796/boris-johnson-hit-by-revenge-plot-as-pm-loyalists-take-aim-at-his-turbulent-private-life/
I'll get my coat.
Oh and we need to increase spending on the Foreign Office and recreate the Trade department...
A nation mourns....
http://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/politics_and_society/2016/06/25/brexit_is_good_news_says_president_of_iceland/
And, the EU will only give us access to the common market if we accept free movement of labour. That is fundamentally why the political crisis we are in is greater than the economic crisis. Brexit has let the immigration genie out of the bottle.
My guess is that Johnson will understand this.....and go for an early election on this mandate and trust that the Labour party takes the fallout, a reasonable assumption to make.
Jim Pickard @PickardJE · 13m13 minutes ago
Apparently David Davis wants another tilt at the Tory leadership, probably. Interesting times.
McDonnell did the same on Sunday Politics.
2 non starters there.
On the Tory side it looks the same. No one wants to be incharge of disaster.
I see now we have the hashtag #Jexit
The City could run parallel markets: the official EU one (with FTT or anything else), and the London pseudo-Euro one based on UK rules.
Customers can make their own choice which to use.
Now people are reacting with mock horror that people have said they were talking about control and not numbers.
Maybe if pundits and Remainers were listening to what Leavers were actually saying, rather than what they pretended Leave was saying, they wouldn't be so surprised today now that they're suddenly listening.
No, you did it at the price of other people's jobs and almost certainly a shrunken NHS as our GDP falls.
The Bubble may be in meltdown but life goes on...
For Kremlinologists here, would Labour be ill advised to elect a Blairite pre-Chilcott Report?
Just as in the run up to the EU Referendum, where the debate was terrific.
Well done people. The politicians failed miserably to educate us Welsh, perhaps they should make us all read PB.
Del Piero is the prettiest ... but that's all I can add really. Yes, I'm shallow, I know.
I thought Marr's own piece at the beginning of his show today was excellent.
French anger driven by fact that Brexit materially increases risk of Le Pen winning - also why they want to make Brexit painful. View from establishment is that why I'm can survive Brexit France could not survive Frexit (Le Pen's policy - although she will just write off the debt).
Other concern is she had been bought and paid for by Putin. I don't know NATO Article 5 but my contact said that certain countries can veto collective action under Article 5, France being one of them. If Le Pen is president Putin will annex the Baltics. U.S. alone can only put in 0.5m and can't beat Russia. NATO collectively can do 3.0m and would win...
I did think 6 months, but I think the political crisis is going to make the 20% Brexit correction come in much harder and faster.
Monday is going to be chaotic I guess.
The Tory leadership contenders need to make a commitment to keeping the single market and fast, even if this includes free movement of Labour. Politically it represents a free hit, because the fallout will be in Labour heartlands. And I guess next week the Tory party will be much less Eurosceptic as people see the ensuing chaos.