Also - I think that it's a mistake to think that Gordon Brown was an unmitigated electoral liability. Of course, in my personal opinion he was was an unmitigated disaster as PM, and senior civil servants and his colleagues seem to agree, but as far as the average Labour or Labour-leaning voter is concerned, I'm not sure it was that clear cut. He was quite cunning and, at his best, came over as a serious figure (I know, I know... but I'm talking about how voters who didn't take too much notice would have viewed him). It's not obvious to me that Miliband vs Brown as a comparison is going to be favourable to Miliband in pure electoral terms.
SO is locked into the infantile and meaningless ""blame meme.. no surprise there then .. It's not working SO ..Have a chat wih the Cheshire Farmer after he has brought tbe cows in, work on another one
Because Labour was tired, tainted, discredited and led by Gordon Brown. Labour lost in 2010 for reasons that were entirely its own fault.
Who are you going to blame next time?
Should it happen it will be Labour's fault, just as it is every time Labour loses. If you cannot persuade enough people to embrace your message, then instead of blaming others you have to ask yourself why not enough voters were prepared to listen. You have to ask what you did wrong. As Jonathan says, Labour spent years blaming everyone else for its own failings and as it did so it kept on losing. I suspect that the Tories will continue to fall short while they look outside their party for why they have not secured a majority for over 20 years; we shall see.
SO is locked into the infantile and meaningless ""blame meme.. no surprise there then .. It's not working SO ..Have a chat wih the Cheshire Farmer after he has brought tbe cows in, work on another one
I would start by asking the question, how do I win Eastleigh. Until you answer that question you will be losing not gaining seats in May 2015.
Yes, that's a fair point. Eastleigh is the kind of seat where we should be doing better, although the LibDems do have a good record of digging in.
At the risk of starting tim off: I met a number of would-beTory candidates the other day (i.e. people on the approved list and still looking for a seat to contest). The standard seemed pretty high - it made me wonder how some of the less impressive candidates of 2010 got selected...
@MichaelLCrick: Senior Labour source in Falkirk says Miliband "hasn't a backbone" + did U-turn "purely on the basis that the GMB took their funding away"
This is turning into a massive potential victory for Ed. Now he just has to sell it....
Theoretically it shouldn't be difficult as leaders accross the globe are falling in behind him. The latest being the Pope the head of the UN and even Congress
Cameron is isolated and becoming enfeebled. His Yougov numbers are going down again. It's never been so true that a week is a long time in politics.
Just checking the BBC news site, and found this as top comment on the USA/Russia disagree story: "Watching Obama's post summit press conference
Cheap shot about helping the British when London was being bombed
The US didn't intervene militarily when London was being bombed in 1940
The US helped the UK with military supplies, which we paid for using US loans, which we paid back & handing over UK overseas territories to the US.
The US only joined the war fully in 41 after they were bombed"
I wonder what words, precisely, Obama used. I don't know the term for the opposite of a Pyrrhic victory (Leonidine defeat?), but increasingly Cameron's 'failure' in the Commons is looking helpful rather than harmful.
If I understood Obama's remarks correctly, he was referring to the fact that people in the US were not keen to join the war when London was being bombed. In the same way, people in the US may not want to take action against Syria for using CW on civilians even though some leaders like himself think it should be done.
Clearly you believe the Tories *should* coast to victory in 2015 and secure a pretty large majority. What on earth will it say about them if they cannot do so, first against Gordon Brown and then Ed Miliband?
I imagine it will be someone else's fault.
It will be a combination of the skewed boundaries which no person of integrity could accept as reasonable, the difficulty of getting re-elected if you are in government at a time when the world economy is the worst in living memory and you inherited the worst legacy of any major economy in Europe, the long-standing anti-Tory prejudice (which you yourself have pointed to many times) which was so brilliantly stoked up by Alastair Campbell, a large body of payroll voters, a state broadcaster which is on any objective measure is heavily biased to the left and yet which is widely trusted as being impartial, and a rather self-destructive lack of party discipline and disunity on the right, most notably the bizarre antics of UKIP trying to work for a Labour government.
The Tories will not win outright until they take ownership of their under performance. As your post demonstrates, there seems to be a tendency to blame everyone and everything else.
IMO your appeal is far too focussed towards a section the south-east middle class. Cameron had a crack at widening your party's appeal, but has since peddled back.
Your party resembles Labour if it had won in 92. It took that extra defeat for Labour to ask the really difficult questions and stop blaming everyone else.
I don't think Mr Cameron has peddled back. He's just picked the wrong group of voters for the Conservative Party to pitch to: Guardian readers.
Which makes a mockery of both the anti-AV people who tell us we voted against PR when we voted against AV, and the pro-AV people who in some way think it's better than FPTP
Speaking of Lib Dems - At a council election last night in Dorset, the local Lib Dem leader decided to stand as an independent, rather than a Lib Dem ..... it didn't help him though, he came fourth of five. Can't fault his effort.
Which makes a mockery of both the anti-AV people who tell us we voted against PR when we voted against AV, and the pro-AV people who in some way think it's better than FPTP
Hmmm... What about those of us who voted against AV because we quite like the idea of PR?
My critique of Labour is that with a few exceptions - Cruddas, Adonis, Hopi - it has almost totally failed to engage with the realities of the 21st century, not just over the last three years but ever since this century started. Far too many people in Labour do not seem to get aspiration; they fail to properly comprehend why the Tories do genuinely speak for many millions of voters; too many of their priorities are not the priorities of most people; there is too much triangulation (which is how Labour ended up with EdM). Labour can win elections by not being the Tories, but that is not good enough.
Sunil/Andy JS It depends on whether it is 54/46 as Newspoll and Nielsen suggests, in which case the ALP will fall below 60 seats, or 53/47 or so as Galaxy, Reachtel and Essential Research suggests in which case they should just about stay above it. Morgan is in-between.
@JGForsyth: Labour clearing Unite just ahead of TUC, awful 4 Miliband. Makes it easy for the Tories to say that whatever he says, he’ll fold in the end
Lefties ponder this on the Non story in Falkirk... If the people involved had been right and followed procedure they would have stuck to their guns or principles.. they did not . They are not shrinking political violets. Very much a NON story..
The Non story from Falkirk should fill a few column inches in the w/ends papers. Why back down if everything was above board ..even junior reporters would be after that one
@JGForsyth: Falkirk now reeks of the ‘old politics’ even more badly than it did before. But the problem 4 Mili is that Labour now looks complicit in it
@MichaelLCrick: Falkirk Labour executive member Brian Capaloff says constituency party have not yet been told whether they're still in "special measures"
BBC - “Labour has cleared Unite of trying to rig the selection of a party candidate in Falkirk, claims which led to a major row between the union and Ed Miliband.
The party has decided no organisation or individual broke its rules after evidence of wrongdoing was withdrawn.”
So, not cleared at all then. – does Scotland not have a witness protection programme?
@DAaronovitch: The statement on Falkirk: "No organisation or individual has been found to have breached the rules as they stood at the time." At the time?
Any Newspaper Editor worth his salt will be all over the NON story from Falkirk.. Watergate was a Non Story too..
Not sure it’s a Watergate sized scandal, but it certainly is not a ‘non-story’. Here’s what Iain Watson Political correspondent, BBC News has to say about it
“The process of selecting a Labour candidate in Falkirk provoked the bitterest row between the party and the trade unions in a generation.
This was no local difficulty. It had national and wide-ranging personal and political implications.”
S.St.S.. Never said it was the same magnitude as Watergate.. it is the cover up that will interest reporters.. If it was all above board , why pull out?... sniff..sniff..sniff.. ..somewhere out there is an e-mail or recorded telephone conversation..as SO says "House"
To coin a phrase I guess one could say that Ed"rushed to War" with the Unions and chaos has followed. What was it Ed said last week "I believe in following the evidence and basing my decision and judgement on that !"
One day someone will write a good book about what happened in Falkirk. From this distance it just seems plain weird.
It'd be interesting for all us anoraks if Miliband was to release the report, redacted for names if necessary. But he hasn't so far, and I doubt he will now. But if he does not, there will always be questions about what it contained and how professional it was.
However, the timing of this announcement is dire. On a Friday afternoon, whilst a G20 discussing possible war is ongoing, and the BBC Trust in trouble. It does smack of trying to hide the story.
However, the timing of this announcement is dire. On a Friday afternoon, whilst a G20 discussing possible war is ongoing, and the BBC Trust in trouble. It does smack of trying to hide the story.
No, no. Ed swiftly and decisively tried (and failed) to bury bad news.
And it's clearly a non-story. There is no way this story can possibly be bigger than
Man on a boat Man on a train Man gets out of a car Man eats a burger Man cries at a funeral
Ed might as well have called every newspaper editor and said "Please be gentle with me"
Sadly that right wing rag The Independent did not get his call...
Ed Miliband made an embarrassing retreat tonight over allegations of vote-rigging by the Unite union in a parliamentary selection contest in Falkirk, Scotland.
The bitter dispute was the catalyst for Mr Miliband’s plans to recast the relationship between Labour and its trade union founders. He wants union members to “opt in” to affiliating to the party rather that the present system of “opting out” if they do not wish to support it financially.
Miliband aides vowed that his radical reforms will go ahead even though furious union leaders have begun to cut their cash support to Labour, which could provoke a financial crisis for the party at the 2015 election.
Allegations in Falkirk that union members were signed up as party members without their knowledge to support Karie Murphy, Unite’s favoured candidate, have been withdrawn after complainants changed their evidence. Labour referred the claims to the Scottish Police, who in July found no grounds for a criminal investigation.
In a major climbdown by Labour, Ms Murphy and Stevie Deans, chairman of the local party in Falkirk and Unite in Scotland, who had been suspended by Labour during its own investigation, were reinstated as party members last night.
Pretty car. Looks like a cross between a London taxi and an Austin Mini. With a boot. But I was thinking more of the diplomatic service. I recently read that book of valedictory Ambassadors' letters compiled by Matthew Parris. The spat reminds me of that a bit. I expect our diplomats will be not unpleased with Cameron's riposte.
Ed is swift and decisive, right? There have been multiple posts praising this quality...
party insiders have questioned Ed Miliband's judgment in calling in the police and allowing Murphy's suspension before party officials had fully examined the allegations.
One said: "Ed Miliband was not in full possession of the facts but still rushed to judgment in the middle of a media frenzy. He made the wrong call."
"That nice Mr Putin was absolutely right. We agree with him that Assad should be left in peace to gas his own people. Please Sir, may I have another..."
..any speech that even hints at Patriotism really hacks off the lefties .. They hate the UK/GB and its history ..no idea why they stick around .. lots of room in Russia..
..any speech that even hints at Patriotism really hacks off the lefties .. They hate the UK/GB and its history ..no idea why they stick around .. lots of room in Russia..
A back room official says something, best just ignore it rather than expose just how conscious you are that you're a self castrated eunuch at the G20
I pefer chasing the Prez round the kitchens it's more dignified.
@RicHolden Four days ago: Unite threaten to boycott Labour conference unless Murphy and Deans are reinstated. Today: they are reinstated. #WeakWeakWeak
..any speech that even hints at Patriotism really hacks off the lefties .. They hate the UK/GB and its history ..no idea why they stick around .. lots of room in Russia..
A back room official says something, best just ignore it rather than expose just how conscious you are that you're a self castrated eunuch at the G20
It looks like noone chatted to Dave and Merkel even took his chair at the G20,so the lame-duck PM had to feign offence at some imaginary official and give a speech to make his presence felt.
The Tories are going to be in big trouble if the Lib Dems agree with Labour on pushing through a £5k donations limit
Does the £5k limit apply to union donations as well?
Yes
Really? I am surprised. No getting round it by calling union donations thousands of individual ones?
If that is the case I think Labour have absolutely no plans to implement this rule at all.
Do you bet?
Not really.
You're telling me that Labour are going to cut off their union money tap forever for no apparent reason? I just find it quite hard to believe, what is their thinking behind it? Where is the rest of their money going to come from?
The Tories are going to be in big trouble if the Lib Dems agree with Labour on pushing through a £5k donations limit
Does the £5k limit apply to union donations as well?
Yes
Really? I am surprised. No getting round it by calling union donations thousands of individual ones?
If that is the case I think Labour have absolutely no plans to implement this rule at all.
If you want fair and competitive politics, cap spending. Funding is nothing more than a red herring.
That's just a dying party mantra. The Tories are obviously reliant on a dozen hedge funds to donate ten times what their entire membership does, but that isn't healthy is it?
no. I like fair and wide competition. Not the monopoly of money and
Comments
Labour have strengths and weakness.
Strengths
Better organised and diciplined
Only party with national reach
Better campaigners and have been winning by-elections.
Weaknesses
Questions over leader
Needs an answer to economic questions
Lacking positive big idea that resonates with electorate.
DPJHodges: Falkirk stays in special measures. New Unite activists not allowed to vote in new selection. Unite cleared on singing up without knowledge.
At the risk of starting tim off: I met a number of would-beTory candidates the other day (i.e. people on the approved list and still looking for a seat to contest). The standard seemed pretty high - it made me wonder how some of the less impressive candidates of 2010 got selected...
http://www.libdemvoice.org/economist-political-map-of-uk-34188.html
@MichaelLCrick: Senior Labour source in Falkirk says Miliband "hasn't a backbone" + did U-turn "purely on the basis that the GMB took their funding away"
"Because Labour was tired, tainted, discredited and led by Gordon Brown. Labour lost in 2010 for reasons that were entirely its own fault."
Perfect timing :-)
tim=SO
BINGO
Theoretically it shouldn't be difficult as leaders accross the globe are falling in behind him. The latest being the Pope the head of the UN and even Congress
Cameron is isolated and becoming enfeebled. His Yougov numbers are going down again. It's never been so true that a week is a long time in politics.
Falkirk Labour source claims witnesses to wrongdoing were persuaded to withdraw their evidence under pressure
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/09/06/galaxy-and-reachtel-53-47-essential-research-52-48/?comment_page=47/#comments
@JGForsyth: Labour clearing Unite just ahead of TUC, awful 4 Miliband. Makes it easy for the Tories to say that whatever he says, he’ll fold in the end
What is your preferred electoral voting system for Westminster elections.
a) FPTP
b) AV
c) STV
d) Mixture of constituency and list as used in devolved governments in the UK
e) Directly Elected Dictator
They are not shrinking political violets.
Very much a NON story..
g) EU decide
Why back down if everything was above board ..even junior reporters would be after that one
Show trials of those that claim wrongdoing ?
As a farmer, that's hilarious. The PB Kinnocks will be all over that.
Oh, wait...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyRxOdGW4Ys
The party has decided no organisation or individual broke its rules after evidence of wrongdoing was withdrawn.”
So, not cleared at all then. – does Scotland not have a witness protection programme?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23993368
Non-story
@DPJHodges: Strange. I'm now being tweeted by lots of lefties criticising me for not attacking Ed Miliband enough...
@DPJHodges: Big strategic problem for Ed is Falkirk was basis for reforms. Can't say "well, I was wrong about Falkirk after all. But...".
Watergate was a Non Story too..
What is it SO says "House"
“The process of selecting a Labour candidate in Falkirk provoked the bitterest row between the party and the trade unions in a generation.
This was no local difficulty. It had national and wide-ranging personal and political implications.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindustan_Ambassador
If it was all above board , why pull out?...
sniff..sniff..sniff.. ..somewhere out there is an e-mail or recorded telephone conversation..as SO says "House"
It'd be interesting for all us anoraks if Miliband was to release the report, redacted for names if necessary. But he hasn't so far, and I doubt he will now. But if he does not, there will always be questions about what it contained and how professional it was.
However, the timing of this announcement is dire. On a Friday afternoon, whilst a G20 discussing possible war is ongoing, and the BBC Trust in trouble. It does smack of trying to hide the story.
Worked a treat last time
And it's clearly a non-story. There is no way this story can possibly be bigger than
Man on a boat
Man on a train
Man gets out of a car
Man eats a burger
Man cries at a funeral
Pretty car. Looks like a cross between a London taxi and an Austin Mini. With a boot. But I was thinking more of the diplomatic service. I recently read that book of valedictory Ambassadors' letters compiled by Matthew Parris. The spat reminds me of that a bit. I expect our diplomats will be not unpleased with Cameron's riposte.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/06/karie-murphy-labour-candidate-falkirk
As indecisive and unprincipled over Falkirk as he is over Syria.
The left wing leader who makes Citoyen Hollande look like a statesman.
Ah, in yesterday's news, the MET found no evidence of malpractice in Lewisham Deptford selection.
What I don't understand is how does Labour think it's going to get through a Special Conference on all this next year? It will be mayhem.
What an embarrassing speech!
"That nice Mr Putin was absolutely right. We agree with him that Assad should be left in peace to gas his own people. Please Sir, may I have another..."
Four days ago: Unite threaten to boycott Labour conference unless Murphy and Deans are reinstated. Today: they are reinstated. #WeakWeakWeak
If that is the case I think Labour have absolutely no plans to implement this rule at all.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23186851
Must be a case of follow the money. POEMWAS. Will he be rehiring Watson? Looks like utter horlicks c. Jack Straw.
You're telling me that Labour are going to cut off their union money tap forever for no apparent reason? I just find it quite hard to believe, what is their thinking behind it? Where is the rest of their money going to come from?
Don't know what my phone has done here.