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  • Patrick said:

    SO

    Economically he has kept the USA's P&L account alive by destroying its balance sheet.
    Legislatively his only 'achievement' was the ACA (aka Obamacare) and how's that hopeychangey stuff working out for him?
    Foreign policy wrt to allies and enemies....don't even go there.

    History will not be kind to Obama.

    The deficit is being reduced, unemployment has been falling steadily, the economy has been growing for most of his presidency. I understand that the swivel-eyed right hates all this, but them's the facts.
  • Miss Plato, surely the video should've ended with Ed Miliband saying the French President speaks for Britain? :p
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,305
    Could be worse, The finale of Elgar's Coronation Ode has words by A C Benson, which contrast the wonderful theme, with third rate doggerel.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QysIbmSZB8

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,902
    edited September 2013
    Tony Abbott is probably a bit too right wing for UKIP.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    Andy_JS said:

    "If Abbott is elected, Australia's natural wonders will gradually be rubbed away

    Tony Abbott's climate policies are about removing the social and environmental protections enjoyed by all Australians to allow the filthy rich to become richer – and filthier":


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/05/abbott-climate-change-election

    should keep Blair and Mandelson happy then.
  • Off topic, can we launch into the English Channel, via trebuchet the person who thought scheduling one day cricket matches in September was a good idea?

    As I had tickets for today and Sunday.

    To be fair, the weather in Yorkshire (as in much of the rest of the country) was excellent this month up until last night!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ed's speech would be to Kenny Rogers..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4ZSds0GT64
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    tim said:

    Miss Plato, surely the video should've ended with Ed Miliband saying the French President speaks for Britain? :p


    Cameron's recall of Parliament cock up has ensured that Hollande really does speak for him.
    Win Win.

    Either France steps up to the mark with the US and does it's world policeman role - no bodybags for the UK.

    Or Hollande fluffs his lines and Obama has a crash course in why Europe doesn't work.
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    tim said:

    Miss Plato, surely the video should've ended with Ed Miliband saying the French President speaks for Britain? :p


    Cameron's recall of Parliament cock up has ensured that Hollande really does speak for him.
    If Ed Miliband had kept his word, there would not have been a problem.
  • antifrank said:

    Exciting though I find the Scottish referendum, today my thoughts keep turning back to the impending votes in Washington on strikes in Syria. If the House of Representatives is as opposed to military action as the ABC report suggests, Barack Obama is going to need an extraordinary turn-around to get a positive vote from here.

    A few thoughts:

    1) If the vote fails, will the precedent for seeking Congressional approval nevertheless have been set?
    2) How the hell is Barack Obama going to carry any credibility internationally if he has the rug pulled from under him by Congress? Or for that matter, domestically?
    3) Hillary Clinton must be hugging herself with glee at how good she is being made to look in retrospect.

    I do believe a certain piece on pbc last Sunday was one of the first articles to point out that Obama could well be the biggest loser from the Commons vote.

    Politicalbetting leading the way. Not for the first time.
  • Mr. Herdson, I recall reading that. It was a very interesting piece, which I think I posted that I agreed with. Can't remember who the chap was who wrote it, though...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,742
    Slightly nervous of entering into this music thing but is Ed not more Tracy Chapman?

    Sorry
    Is all that you can't say
    Years gone by and still
    Words don't come easily
    Like sorry like sorry

    Forgive me
    Is all that you can't say
    Years gone by and still
    Words don't come easily
    Like forgive me forgive me
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Next said:


    If Ed Miliband had kept his word, there would not have been a problem.

    There is no problem, for Cameron. It's Ed that weally, weally, weally wants the vote again.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,103
    DavidH

    "I do believe a certain piece on pbc last Sunday was one of the first articles to point out that Obama could well be the biggest loser from the Commons vote."

    I'm glad to see you following the tradition of self effacing modesty pioneered on PB.com by SeanT
  • Patrick said:

    SO

    Economically he has kept the USA's P&L account alive by destroying its balance sheet.
    Legislatively his only 'achievement' was the ACA (aka Obamacare) and how's that hopeychangey stuff working out for him?
    Foreign policy wrt to allies and enemies....don't even go there.

    History will not be kind to Obama.

    History will largely forget what Obama did in office. He will be remembered solely for the fact of his reaching it in the first place (unless he seriously cocks up in the next three years, which is not inconceivable).
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited September 2013

    SeanT said:

    Panelbase. A small furniture company from Forfar, with some bloke at the back who conducts occasional polls to finance his smack habit.

    It's not ICM, is it?

    But good enough for the Sunday Times.
    I can't remember where your gadfly opinions currently lie regarding Murdoch, but presumably you accept the ST is still a major newspaper.

    Watching the 'near perfect' idiots rubbish all Ashcroft polling because of the partisan nature of who is behind it will prove most amusing. (once PB does as it is told and features it) As will all other polling carried out for those papers and proprietors who never even try to hide their right-wing bias.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,902
    Bit rich of Putin to make jokes about the UK when Russia is at about number 50 in the world for GDP per head:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
  • Mr. Roger, it's legitimate to point out if one has been ahead of the game. On the numerous times this year my F1 bets have gone awry I've conceded my misjudgement, and when they've gone well I've acknowledged that too.

    Particularly on a betting site, it's no bad thing to hark back and see how good or bad predictions turned out.
  • Roger said:

    DavidH

    "I do believe a certain piece on pbc last Sunday was one of the first articles to point out that Obama could well be the biggest loser from the Commons vote."

    I'm glad to see you following the tradition of self effacing modesty pioneered on PB.com by SeanT

    Naturally. Not least because I can't get my facts right: it was published on Saturday, not Sunday.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Oooh Iain Martin takes on Ukip..

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100234660/well-done-david-cameron-for-sticking-it-to-putin-and-the-defeatist-ukip-moaners-who-hate-modern-britain/

    "The only people more dismissive of modern Britain than tiny Vladimir Putin, are the most extreme of the Ukippers who think that Britain is a thoroughly miserable place disappearing down the lavatory of history. "
  • Next said:

    tim said:

    Miss Plato, surely the video should've ended with Ed Miliband saying the French President speaks for Britain? :p


    Cameron's recall of Parliament cock up has ensured that Hollande really does speak for him.
    If Ed Miliband had kept his word, there would not have been a problem.

    Tut, tut. I can think of a few posters on here who would now be receiving considerable abuse had they made something up like you've just done.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
    Shocker. RT @paulhutcheon BREAKING: Karie Murphy formally withdraws from @UKLabour race in the Falkirk selection
  • @Plato

    Actually, as islands go, Great Britain is quite a big one - it is usually reckoned as the ninth largest in the world, and the third most populous. It's population is only just under half Russia's (63m vs 143m).

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Plato said:

    Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
    Shocker. RT @paulhutcheon BREAKING: Karie Murphy formally withdraws from @UKLabour race in the Falkirk selection

    Non story.
  • @david_herdson That was a very impressive judgement call.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:


    Non story.

    Ed's fight with the unions will be great for him...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    TGOHF said:

    Plato said:

    Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
    Shocker. RT @paulhutcheon BREAKING: Karie Murphy formally withdraws from @UKLabour race in the Falkirk selection

    Non story.
    It'll have no impact at all - whatsoever.

    I'm called Len and so is my wife.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I note that the Falkirk pair have had their party suspension lifted..
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    There is more to the Falkirk story. Katie has not only withdrawn as candidate, she has been readmitted to membership of the Labour party and they don't say whether she will be barred from participation in the new selection procedure. Maybe she has withdrawn so Labour can select Eric Joyce as their candidate.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @iainmartin1: @DPJHodges So massive Falkirk row was all for, er, nothing. But generally quite expensive?

    @DPJHodges: That is a staggering climb down from Ed Miliband. I can't believe it.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited September 2013
    Kevin Maguire@Kevin_Maguire
    Labour-union crisis a Miliband own goal: Unite's Karie Murphy & Stephen Deans reinstated,
    no disciplinary charges. She quits Falkirk race

    Owen Jones@OwenJones84
    Labour reinstate Karie Murphy, say "not guilty of any wrongdoing" and "no organisation or individual breached the rules". Finally: the truth
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Scott_P said:

    @iainmartin1: @DPJHodges So massive Falkirk row was all for, er, nothing. But generally quite expensive?

    @DPJHodges: That is a staggering climb down from Ed Miliband. I can't believe it.

    Bargain. Bit too late to decide to change the GMB's decision and everything else like the Spring Conf special on funding!

    What an omiscrambles :^ )

    A whole box worth. Can't wait to see the wriggling and Look Squid!!! next.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,305

    There is more to the Falkirk story. Katie has not only withdrawn as candidate, she has been readmitted to membership of the Labour party and they don't say whether she will be barred from participation in the new selection procedure. Maybe she has withdrawn so Labour can select Eric Joyce as their candidate.

    Has Eric The Slugger returned from his walking holiday. Must be one of the most unusual excuses for not appearing in court.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @LabourList: Update: Here’s Karie Murphy’s statement withdrawing from the selection http://labli.st/17KnfAl
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited September 2013
    Scrapheap's conclusion on Falkirk

    tim was right, it was a non-story.

    problem was Ed M made it a massive one.

    Well done Ed! Great party management again....
  • Moral: Don't mess with Tom Watson
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Sounds pretty juicy

    Hayley Barlow @Hayley_Barlow
    Tonight fmr DG Mark Thompson speaks on camera for 1st time & admits to #c4news he did have conversation with Helen Boaden about Savile. #BBC
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Owen Jones ‏@OwenJones84

    So - as I and others said from the beginning - the whole Falkirk crisis over Labour's union links was based on a load of nonsense.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    edited September 2013
    Plato said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iainmartin1: @DPJHodges So massive Falkirk row was all for, er, nothing. But generally quite expensive?

    @DPJHodges: That is a staggering climb down from Ed Miliband. I can't believe it.

    Bargain. Bit too late to decide to change the GMB's decision and everything else like the Spring Conf special on funding!

    What an omiscrambles :^ )

    A whole box worth. Can't wait to see the wriggling and Look Squid!!! next.
    I think you'll find it's of no interest to anyone, which is why they announced it late on a Friday afternoon in the middle of a diplomatic crisis. ;-)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Scrapheap's conclusion on Falkirk

    tim was right, it was a non-story.

    problem was Ed M made it a massive one.

    Well done Ed!

    Ed Miliband, just a teeny, tiny bit crap.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IsabelOakeshott: If nobody did anything wrong re.Falkirk, then let's see the internal report @Ed_Miliband ? Why is there such paranoia about it?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Should be no problem releasing the Labour report now then should there ?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Scott_P said:

    @IsabelOakeshott: If nobody did anything wrong re.Falkirk, then let's see the internal report @Ed_Miliband ? Why is there such paranoia about it?

    And call in the polis?

    This is just such fun.
  • Just checking the BBC news site, and found this as top comment on the USA/Russia disagree story:
    "Watching Obama's post summit press conference

    Cheap shot about helping the British when London was being bombed

    The US didn't intervene militarily when London was being bombed in 1940

    The US helped the UK with military supplies, which we paid for using US loans, which we paid back & handing over UK overseas territories to the US.

    The US only joined the war fully in 41 after they were bombed"

    I wonder what words, precisely, Obama used. I don't know the term for the opposite of a Pyrrhic victory (Leonidine defeat?), but increasingly Cameron's 'failure' in the Commons is looking helpful rather than harmful.
  • Scrapheap's conclusion on Falkirk

    tim was right, it was a non-story.

    problem was Ed M made it a massive one.

    Well done Ed! Great party management again....

    Ross Hawkins@rosschawkins

    Ed Miliband 9 July: "What we saw in Falkirk is part of the death-throes of the old politics."

  • 5 July: Miliband said: "Instead of defending what happened in Falkirk, Len McCluskey should be facing up to his responsibilities. He should not be defending the machine politics involving bad practice that went on there, he should be facing up to it."
    ...
    One senior figure said: "Ed didn't choose this battle. But you can be absolutely certain that, now it has started, Ed will win."


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/jul/05/ed-miliband-unite-falkirk-selection
  • Milliband..Word..Kept..does not compute...
  • Red Ed's back. Following Russia's foreign policy, buckling before the unions. Next he'll be wanting us to have monetary policy set in Frankfurt.

    ... oh.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Ross Hawkins@rosschawkins

    Ed Miliband 9 July: "What we saw in Falkirk is part of the death-throes of the old politics."

    Did he mean "What we saw in Falkirk is part of the death-throes of my leadership"?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,003

    Just checking the BBC news site, and found this as top comment on the USA/Russia disagree story:
    "Watching Obama's post summit press conference

    Cheap shot about helping the British when London was being bombed

    The US didn't intervene militarily when London was being bombed in 1940

    The US helped the UK with military supplies, which we paid for using US loans, which we paid back & handing over UK overseas territories to the US.

    The US only joined the war fully in 41 after they were bombed"

    I wonder what words, precisely, Obama used. I don't know the term for the opposite of a Pyrrhic victory (Leonidine defeat?), but increasingly Cameron's 'failure' in the Commons is looking helpful rather than harmful.

    Serendipity ?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,283
    I find it fascinating, as well as incomprehensible, that anyone would have their opinion on Independence swayed in either direction by a transitory thing like the make-up of a government at that point in time.

    Now if the premise were "if there were never to be a Tory UK government ever again" I could understand it.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    If nothing happened will Labour be charged with wasting police time ?
  • Mr. Pulpstar, that fits, but lacks the military theme.
  • SO

    Actually the real USA unemployment figure is awful:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-06/real-unemployment-rate-rises-114-difference-between-reported-and-real-data-rises-

    The reported figure ignores the fact that millions are leaving the labour force - and the statistics. But they're still there and not working. They've given up.


  • So, the 2015 proposition is: "Having demonstrated that I can screw up the Labour Party's historic links with the unions, and that I can screw up the historic Western alliance, I'm asking for your vote so I can screw up the entire United Kingdom".
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756

    So, the 2015 proposition is: "Having demonstrated that I can screw up the Labour Party's historic links with the unions, and that I can screw up the historic Western alliance, I'm asking for your vote so I can screw up the entire United Kingdom".

    I'm afraid Blair got there first, this is about stopping any recovery chances the nation might have.
  • So, the 2015 proposition is: "Having demonstrated that I can screw up the Labour Party's historic links with the unions, and that I can screw up the historic Western alliance, I'm asking for your vote so I can screw up the entire United Kingdom".

    I'm afraid Blair got there first, this is about stopping any recovery chances the nation might have.
    True, but Blair did a jolly good job of disguising it, at least until Iraq.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    TGOHF said:

    If nothing happened will Labour be charged with wasting police time ?

    I think wasting journalists time might be the tougher sanction.
  • Patrick said:

    SO

    Actually the real USA unemployment figure is awful:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-06/real-unemployment-rate-rises-114-difference-between-reported-and-real-data-rises-

    The reported figure ignores the fact that millions are leaving the labour force - and the statistics. But they're still there and not working. They've given up.


    The potentially good news is that the total number of involuntary underemployed (part time for economic reasons) declined dramatically in August. This was due to a sharp drop in those on slack work. The number of workers who could only find part time work rose slightly. The drop in slack work may signal an increase in production.

    "http://www.athenaalliance.org/weblog/?



  • Surely even the most stalwart Labour supporter can plainly see that Ed Milliband is a total disaster for their Party
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited September 2013
    Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick
    Tom Watson on Falkirk: "these members have had their lives turned inside out a a media frenzy based on an inaccurate report and I'm glad ...

    Glad for what one wonders!?

    Ah...

    Tom Watson on Falkirk 2/2 ... I'm glad the party has finally done the right thing."
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Surely even the most stalwart Labour supporter can plainly see that Ed Milliband is a total disaster for their Party

    Those of which you speak of have apparently gone to ground.
  • So, the 2015 proposition is: "Having demonstrated that I can screw up the Labour Party's historic links with the unions, and that I can screw up the historic Western alliance, I'm asking for your vote so I can screw up the entire United Kingdom".

    Clearly you believe the Tories *should* coast to victory in 2015 and secure a pretty large majority. What on earth will it say about them if they cannot do so, first against Gordon Brown and then Ed Miliband?

    I imagine it will be someone else's fault.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft
    Have completed one of the largest poll on Scottish politics. Pls register at lordashcroftpolls.com to receive a copy.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756

    Surely even the most stalwart Labour supporter can plainly see that Ed Milliband is a total disaster for their Party

    How do you work that out Richard ? This has been a blazing start to parliament, Ed's defeated Obama, stuck his head in the sand on the economy, seen his funding plans realised courtesy of the GMB and has put Falkirk to bed. And done all of that without a single policy.

    I really can't wait for next week.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    So, the 2015 proposition is: "Having demonstrated that I can screw up the Labour Party's historic links with the unions, and that I can screw up the historic Western alliance, I'm asking for your vote so I can screw up the entire United Kingdom".

    Clearly you believe the Tories *should* coast to victory in 2015 and secure a pretty large majority. What on earth will it say about them if they cannot do so, first against Gordon Brown and then Ed Miliband?

    I imagine it will be someone else's fault.

    A repeat of the 2010 result would suit me fine thanks.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    Plato said:

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft
    Have completed one of the largest poll on Scottish politics. Pls register at lordashcroftpolls.com to receive a copy.

    When's that due for release ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,165
    edited September 2013

    Just checking the BBC news site, and found this as top comment on the USA/Russia disagree story:
    "Watching Obama's post summit press conference

    Cheap shot about helping the British when London was being bombed

    The US didn't intervene militarily when London was being bombed in 1940

    The US helped the UK with military supplies, which we paid for using US loans, which we paid back & handing over UK overseas territories to the US.

    The US only joined the war fully in 41 after they were bombed"

    I wonder what words, precisely, Obama used. I don't know the term for the opposite of a Pyrrhic victory (Leonidine defeat?), but increasingly Cameron's 'failure' in the Commons is looking helpful rather than harmful.

    Mr Dancer, I can think of at least two squadrons of American Volunteer "Eagles" at North Weald in 1940-41. Nos. 71 and 121 Squadrons.

    http://www.northwealdairfieldhistory.org/content/eagle-squadrons
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    FFS - are no amusing weirdos not paedos?

    "A Star Trek fan who converted his flat into a replica of the Starship Enterprise has been jailed for downloading thousands of images of child abuse.

    Anthony Alleyne, from Hinckley, Leicestershire, was jailed at Leicester Crown Court for 34 months.

    The 60-year-old spent 10 years and thousands of pounds converting his home, which was inspired by the long-running TV series" >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-23994131#
  • Dr. Prasannan, I bow to your superior knowledge of modern history.

    However, some volunteers us not the same as a national effort in a war.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,103
    edited September 2013
    @Moniker

    "The villians of this awful affair are principally Kerry and Hague. Both of whom should either resign or be sacked."

    I agree that if the vote fails Kerry should go and if standards hadn't slumped Hague would already have gone but I don't agree that it's an 'awful affair'.

    Anything which forces the US and it's willing poodle to take account of public opinion before dropping bombs must be a good thing
  • The opposite of a Pyrrhic victory is a Laevinic defeat. Obvious really.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    Roger said:

    @Moniker

    "The villians of this awful affair are principally Kerry and Hague. Both of whom should either resign or be sacked."

    I agree that if the vote fails Kerry should go and if standards hadn't slumped Hague would have gone a week ago but I dont agree that it's an 'awful affair'.

    Anything which forces the US and it's willing poodle to take account of public opinion before dropping bombs is a good thing

    Stop picking on France Roger, they're enjoying poodle status.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,902
    edited September 2013
    Plato said:

    FFS - are no amusing weirdos not paedos?

    "A Star Trek fan who converted his flat into a replica of the Starship Enterprise has been jailed for downloading thousands of images of child abuse.

    Anthony Alleyne, from Hinckley, Leicestershire, was jailed at Leicester Crown Court for 34 months.

    The 60-year-old spent 10 years and thousands of pounds converting his home, which was inspired by the long-running TV series" >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-23994131#

    Anyone else think it's a bit odd how looking at images is now regarded as such a terrible crime whereas taking girls to foreign countries to be subjected to FGM hasn't led to a single prosecution since being made illegal in 1985?

    In my opinion the latter is far worse than the former.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,165
    edited September 2013

    Roger said:

    @Moniker

    "The villians of this awful affair are principally Kerry and Hague. Both of whom should either resign or be sacked."

    I agree that if the vote fails Kerry should go and if standards hadn't slumped Hague would have gone a week ago but I dont agree that it's an 'awful affair'.

    Anything which forces the US and it's willing poodle to take account of public opinion before dropping bombs is a good thing

    Stop picking on France Roger, they're enjoying poodle status.
    Good moaning! I was bruising the threads and I brung you a massage: The Fronch are now Obummer's piddle.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    edited September 2013

    Surely even the most stalwart Labour supporter can plainly see that Ed Milliband is a total disaster for their Party

    How do you work that out Richard ? This has been a blazing start to parliament, Ed's defeated Obama, stuck his head in the sand on the economy, seen his funding plans realised courtesy of the GMB and has put Falkirk to bed. And done all of that without a single policy.

    I really can't wait for next week.
    Obviously there is a lot of knee jerk criticism of EdM from the usual suspects. But there is a point to be made about his ability to form alliances and coalitions.

    Whist he likes to take a "brave" stance against vested power, this really ought to be balanced by another side of the coin where he forms coalitions. Can't think of any group that is particularly on his side at the moment.

    Contrasts significantly from Blair who liked to build alliances.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756

    Roger said:

    @Moniker

    "The villians of this awful affair are principally Kerry and Hague. Both of whom should either resign or be sacked."

    I agree that if the vote fails Kerry should go and if standards hadn't slumped Hague would have gone a week ago but I dont agree that it's an 'awful affair'.

    Anything which forces the US and it's willing poodle to take account of public opinion before dropping bombs is a good thing

    Stop picking on France Roger, they're enjoying poodle status.
    Good moaning! I was bruising the threads and I brung you a massage: The Fronch are now Obummer's piddle.
    On the scale of animal symbols it's a step up from a scrawny coq.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited September 2013

    Clearly you believe the Tories *should* coast to victory in 2015 and secure a pretty large majority. What on earth will it say about them if they cannot do so, first against Gordon Brown and then Ed Miliband?

    I imagine it will be someone else's fault.

    It will be a combination of the skewed boundaries which no person of integrity could accept as reasonable, the difficulty of getting re-elected if you are in government at a time when the world economy is the worst in living memory and you inherited the worst legacy of any major economy in Europe, the long-standing anti-Tory prejudice (which you yourself have pointed to many times) which was so brilliantly stoked up by Alastair Campbell, a large body of payroll voters, a state broadcaster which on any objective measure is heavily biased to the left and yet which is widely trusted as being impartial, and a rather self-destructive lack of party discipline and disunity on the right, most notably the bizarre antics of UKIP trying to work for a Labour government.

    Of course, as you well know, despite all the huge disadvantages Cameron did gain a record number of seats in 2010, and got a share of the vote which was considerably better than Labour's majority-winning share in 2005, so it's a bit of a false argument to point at the fact that he didn't get a majority as evidence of anything much.

    But, yes, it's going to be tough. Arguably, we are still in 1974 not 1979 - i.e. the country hasn't yet come to terms with the problems it faces and is still trying to pretend they will all go away if they're ignored.

    We shall see. I'm moderately optimistic, hoping for the best but planning for the worst. Still, one thing is certain: if, God forbid, we do end up with PM Miliband, it will not only be a disaster in itself (he'll be worse than Brown IMO), but will lead to a precipitate loss of popularity for Labour. What happens after that will depend on whether the Conservative Party remains united.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    Jonathan said:

    Surely even the most stalwart Labour supporter can plainly see that Ed Milliband is a total disaster for their Party

    How do you work that out Richard ? This has been a blazing start to parliament, Ed's defeated Obama, stuck his head in the sand on the economy, seen his funding plans realised courtesy of the GMB and has put Falkirk to bed. And done all of that without a single policy.

    I really can't wait for next week.
    Obviously there is a lot of knee jerk criticism of EdM from the usual suspects. But there is a point to be made about his ability to form alliances and coalitions.

    Whist he likes to take a "brave" stance against vested power, this really ought to be balanced by another side of the coin where he forms coalitions. Can't think of any group that is particularly on his side at the moment.

    Contrasts significantly from Blair who like to build alliances.
    Jonathan as I've said before the Syria fiasco is a 1-1 with both leaders scoring own goals. Though as time progresses it's looking like advantage Cameron. Ed's had a bad week.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Andy_JS said:

    Plato said:

    FFS - are no amusing weirdos not paedos?

    "A Star Trek fan who converted his flat into a replica of the Starship Enterprise has been jailed for downloading thousands of images of child abuse.

    Anthony Alleyne, from Hinckley, Leicestershire, was jailed at Leicester Crown Court for 34 months.

    The 60-year-old spent 10 years and thousands of pounds converting his home, which was inspired by the long-running TV series" >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-23994131#

    Anyone else think it's a bit odd how looking at images is now regarded as such a terrible crime whereas taking girls to foreign countries to be subjected to FGM hasn't led to a single prosecution since being made illegal in 1985?

    In my opinion the latter is far worse than the former.
    I find it really weird - and weirder than aborting girls because you don't want one - yet its not the *public interest* to prosecute.

    Still - let's jail the grieving wife of a terminal cripple who wants to die a bit earlier at Dignitas... I despair.
  • Clearly you believe the Tories *should* coast to victory in 2015 and secure a pretty large majority. What on earth will it say about them if they cannot do so, first against Gordon Brown and then Ed Miliband?

    I imagine it will be someone else's fault.

    It will be a combination of the skewed boundaries which no person of integrity could accept as reasonable, the difficulty of getting re-elected if you are in government at a time when the world economy is the worst in living memory and you inherited the worst legacy of any major economy in Europe, the long-standing anti-Tory prejudice (which you yourself have pointed to many times) which was so brilliantly stoked up by Alastair Campbell, a large body of payroll voters, a state broadcaster which is on any objective measure is heavily biased to the left and yet which is widely trusted as being impartial, and a rather self-destructive lack of party discipline and disunity on the right, most notably the bizarre antics of UKIP trying to work for a Labour government.

    Of course, as you well know, despite all the huge disadvantages Cameron did gain a record number of seats in 2010, and got a share of the vote which was considerably better than Labour's majority-winning share in 2005, so it's a bit of a false argument to point at the fact that he didn't get a majority as evidence of anything much.

    But, yes, it's going to be tough. Arguably, we are still in 1974 not 1979 - i.e. the country hasn't yet come to terms with the problems it faces and is still trying to pretend they will all go away if they're ignored.

    We shall see. I'm moderately optimistic, hoping for the best but planning for the worst. Still, one thing is certain: if, God forbid, we do end up with PM Miliband, it will not only be a disaster in itself (he'll be worse than Brown IMO), but will lead to a precipitate loss of popularity for Labour. What happens after that will depend on whether the Conservative Party remains united.

    As I thought, just about everyone will be to blame except the Tories. But as you imply, if they do somehow not manage to see off someone who I agree is a truly awful leader, there could be carnage in Tory ranks.

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited September 2013

    As I thought, just about everyone will be to blame except the Tories.

    No, you must have missed the bit about party discipline, and also the bit about the objective difficulty of getting reelected when you're having to do tough things:

    “We all know what to do, we just don’t know how to get re-elected after we’ve done it.” - Jean-Claude Juncker
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OMW

    The Media Blog @TheMediaTweets
    Don't be fooled by her expensive moon / She's still Cheryl from the toon -> RT @MetroUK: Cheryl Cole’s bum tattoo cost a staggering £14,000
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    Clearly you believe the Tories *should* coast to victory in 2015 and secure a pretty large majority. What on earth will it say about them if they cannot do so, first against Gordon Brown and then Ed Miliband?

    I imagine it will be someone else's fault.

    It will be a combination of the skewed boundaries which no person of integrity could accept as reasonable, the difficulty of getting re-elected if you are in government at a time when the world economy is the worst in living memory and you inherited the worst legacy of any major economy in Europe, the long-standing anti-Tory prejudice (which you yourself have pointed to many times) which was so brilliantly stoked up by Alastair Campbell, a large body of payroll voters, a state broadcaster which on any objective measure is heavily biased to the left and yet which is widely trusted as being impartial, and a rather self-destructive lack of party discipline and disunity on the right, most notably the bizarre antics of UKIP trying to work for a Labour government.

    Of course, as you well know, despite all the huge disadvantages Cameron did gain a record number of seats in 2010, and got a share of the vote which was considerably better than Labour's majority-winning share in 2005, so it's a bit of a false argument to point at the fact that he didn't get a majority as evidence of anything much.

    But, yes, it's going to be tough. Arguably, we are still in 1974 not 1979 - i.e. the country hasn't yet come to terms with the problems it faces and is still trying to pretend they will all go away if they're ignored.

    We shall see. I'm moderately optimistic, hoping for the best but planning for the worst. Still, one thing is certain: if, God forbid, we do end up with PM Miliband, it will not only be a disaster in itself (he'll be worse than Brown IMO), but will lead to a precipitate loss of popularity for Labour. What happens after that will depend on whether the Conservative Party remains united.
    It's quicker to type "society is to blame" every time rather than that lot.

    Told you Falkirk was overblown.
    LOL.

    What's the special conference for then ? Happenstance ?

    LOL.
  • As I thought, just about everyone will be to blame except the Tories.

    No, you must have missed the bit about party discipline.

    Great stuff!! :-D

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    Clearly you believe the Tories *should* coast to victory in 2015 and secure a pretty large majority. What on earth will it say about them if they cannot do so, first against Gordon Brown and then Ed Miliband?

    I imagine it will be someone else's fault.

    It will be a combination of the skewed boundaries which no person of integrity could accept as reasonable, the difficulty of getting re-elected if you are in government at a time when the world economy is the worst in living memory and you inherited the worst legacy of any major economy in Europe, the long-standing anti-Tory prejudice (which you yourself have pointed to many times) which was so brilliantly stoked up by Alastair Campbell, a large body of payroll voters, a state broadcaster which is on any objective measure is heavily biased to the left and yet which is widely trusted as being impartial, and a rather self-destructive lack of party discipline and disunity on the right, most notably the bizarre antics of UKIP trying to work for a Labour government.

    The Tories will not win outright until they take ownership of their under performance. As your post demonstrates, there seems to be a tendency to blame everyone and everything else.

    IMO your appeal is far too focussed towards a section the south-east middle class. Cameron had a crack at widening your party's appeal, but has since peddled back.

    Your party resembles Labour if it had won in 92. It took that extra defeat for Labour to ask the really difficult questions and stop blaming everyone else.
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    Jonathan said:

    Surely even the most stalwart Labour supporter can plainly see that Ed Milliband is a total disaster for their Party

    How do you work that out Richard ? This has been a blazing start to parliament, Ed's defeated Obama, stuck his head in the sand on the economy, seen his funding plans realised courtesy of the GMB and has put Falkirk to bed. And done all of that without a single policy.

    I really can't wait for next week.
    Obviously there is a lot of knee jerk criticism of EdM from the usual suspects. But there is a point to be made about his ability to form alliances and coalitions.

    Whist he likes to take a "brave" stance against vested power, this really ought to be balanced by another side of the coin where he forms coalitions. Can't think of any group that is particularly on his side at the moment.

    Contrasts significantly from Blair who like to build alliances.
    Jonathan as I've said before the Syria fiasco is a 1-1 with both leaders scoring own goals. Though as time progresses it's looking like advantage Cameron. Ed's had a bad week.
    The White House wanted the UK to hold a "quick vote" on Syria

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23961195

    It looks like Obama scored an own goal as well.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @TGOHF

    I think over £1m from the GMB is nothing either.

    Move along now, nothing to see here.
  • Jonathan said:

    Clearly you believe the Tories *should* coast to victory in 2015 and secure a pretty large majority. What on earth will it say about them if they cannot do so, first against Gordon Brown and then Ed Miliband?

    I imagine it will be someone else's fault.

    It will be a combination of the skewed boundaries which no person of integrity could accept as reasonable, the difficulty of getting re-elected if you are in government at a time when the world economy is the worst in living memory and you inherited the worst legacy of any major economy in Europe, the long-standing anti-Tory prejudice (which you yourself have pointed to many times) which was so brilliantly stoked up by Alastair Campbell, a large body of payroll voters, a state broadcaster which is on any objective measure is heavily biased to the left and yet which is widely trusted as being impartial, and a rather self-destructive lack of party discipline and disunity on the right, most notably the bizarre antics of UKIP trying to work for a Labour government.

    The Tories will not win outright until they take ownership of their under performance. As your post demonstrates, there seems to be a tendency to blame everyone and everything else.

    IMO your appeal is far too focussed towards a section the south-east middle class. Cameron had a crack at widening your party's appeal, but has since peddled back.

    Your party resembles Labour if it had won in 92. It took that extra defeat for Labour to ask the really difficult questions and stop blaming everyone else.

    It's not the Tories' fault they blame everyone else for their own failings.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Why did Labour lose in 2010 then ? It started in America ?

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2013
    'in the interests of Party unity " Labour speak for "Shit, we have blown this, been found out , lets get out of here quick before the polis get here"
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,103
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited September 2013
    Jonathan said:

    The Tories will not win outright until they take ownership of their under performance. As your post demonstrates, there seems to be a tendency to blame everyone and everything else.

    IMO your appeal is far too focussed towards a section the south-east middle class. Cameron had a crack at widening your party's appeal, but has since peddled back.

    Maybe it can't be done. If a large portion of the country hasn't yet accepted that there's a problem (and that may be the case, we'll see in 2015), the Conservatives can't realistically out-Labour Labour by promising bread and circuses, even if they wanted to. All they can do is govern well - which they are doing - and stop having stupid internal squabbles (which I agree they are not doing so well).

    Of course I do also accept that there is an element in the party which is, shall we say, old-fashioned and out of touch with the way society has moved on in the last twenty years. I meet a lot of them at party events (!). They are charming and good people, but don't see enough of how most people live. Oddly, the criticism that Cameron and the leadership are out of touch strikes me as the wrong way round; they seem to me to be the ones who are in touch, at least on the social-policy side.
  • It was the fog.



    Biased fog with a payroll ensnaring poor, innocent, pure as the driven snow Tories with its lies. There is no other conceivable objective reading possible.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,902
    Someone called Dr Kevin Bonham has a projection model for the Australian election.

    Latest seats projection:

    Coalition: 96
    Labor: 51
    Others: 3

    http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/
  • TGOHF said:

    Why did Labour lose in 2010 then ? It started in America ?

    Because Labour was tired, tainted, discredited and led by Gordon Brown. Labour lost in 2010 for reasons that were entirely its own fault.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mr Nabavi gives an critique of his own side -fair play.

    Unheard of from PB lefties.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    Jonathan said:

    The Tories will not win outright until they take ownership of their under performance. As your post demonstrates, there seems to be a tendency to blame everyone and everything else.

    IMO your appeal is far too focussed towards a section the south-east middle class. Cameron had a crack at widening your party's appeal, but has since peddled back.

    Maybe it can't be done. If a large portion of the country hasn't yet accepted that there's a problem (and that may be the case, we'll see in 2015), the Conservatives can't realistically out-Labour Labour by promising bread and circuses, even if they wanted to. All they can do is govern well - which they are doing - and stop having stupid internal squabbles (which I agree they are not doing so well).

    Of course I do also accept that there is an element in the party which is, shall we say, old-fashioned and out of touch with the way society has moved on in the last twenty years. I meet a lot of them at party events (!). They are charming and good people, but don't see enough of how most people live. Oddly, the criticism that Cameron and the leadership are out of touch strikes me as the wrong way round; they seem to me to be the ones who are in touch, at least on the social-policy side.
    I would start by asking the question, how do I win Eastleigh. Until you answer that question you will be losing not gaining seats in May 2015.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Because Labour was tired, tainted, discredited and led by Gordon Brown. Labour lost in 2010 for reasons that were entirely its own fault.

    Who are you going to blame next time?
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Tories will not win outright until they take ownership of their under performance. As your post demonstrates, there seems to be a tendency to blame everyone and everything else.

    IMO your appeal is far too focussed towards a section the south-east middle class. Cameron had a crack at widening your party's appeal, but has since peddled back.

    Maybe it can't be done. If a large portion of the country hasn't yet accepted that there's a problem (and that may be the case, we'll see in 2015), the Conservatives can't realistically out-Labour Labour by promising bread and circuses, even if they wanted to. All they can do is govern well - which they are doing - and stop having stupid internal squabbles (which I agree they are not doing so well).

    Of course I do also accept that there is an element in the party which is, shall we say, old-fashioned and out of touch with the way society has moved on in the last twenty years. I meet a lot of them at party events (!). They are charming and good people, but don't see enough of how most people live. Oddly, the criticism that Cameron and the leadership are out of touch strikes me as the wrong way round; they seem to me to be the ones who are in touch, at least on the social-policy side.
    I would start by asking the question, how do I win Eastleigh. Until you answer that question you will be losing not gaining seats in May 2015.

    Richard's analysis is rooted in the SE of England.

This discussion has been closed.