politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » ComRes becomes the 6th successive pollster to report moves

Dave and George's strategy working once again it appears, despite the doubts.

Remain shouldn't get complacent.

The Day The Polls Turned (copyright The Guardian)

To reiterate and develop a point from previous thread:
Gove and pals say delay invocation of Article 50 (formal departure procedure from the EU) until... unspecified date at which every duck will be positioned rowwise.
That is tantamount to ignoring the referendum.
Specifically, REMAIN forces could stall as all the inevitable breakup issues arise, then get the government after the next election to renegotiate an EU membership deal and put it to the people.

One bit of good news: my wife (who's Bulgarian) has moved from Remain to undecided.

She's very worried about restricting immigration at all (she and I slightly at odds here) but likes Vote Leave's message on democracy, science, innovation and entrepreneurial dynamism.

She is also open to admitting the best people from across the world.

The polling doesn't stop today. But both sides need to consider why they have apparently moved in the next few days and what to do next accordingly. Leave have the much bigger challenge, obviously.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dave and George's strategy working once again it appears, despite the doubts.

Naught but Europhile propaganda!

GIN1138 said:

When Labour gets their act together

Dave and George will have retired by then...

Scott_P said:

GIN1138 said:

When Labour gets their act together

Dave and George will have retired by then...

Not if they are forcibly retired, as it were, rather than by choice.

watford30 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dave and George's strategy working once again it appears, despite the doubts.

I trust they're looking forward to 3 years of Tory squabbling, before Corbyn's successor gets the keys to No 10.

No, in June, the Deputy Prime Minister will forget that the Chancellor called him economically illiterate, and the other Great Officers that the Deputy Prime Minister called them scaremongers. In particular, no media will ever refer to these comments again.

GIN1138 said:

The Tories are a busted flush. They've nailed their colours to the mast and they are as devoted to the EU project as the rest.

This is a very good point. Even if we vote to stay in the EU I'm glad this referendum has happened for the very reason that it's flushed out where the politicians really stand on this. If Ukip play their cards right after the referendum they should be able to get something of a boost as they will be the only party for out.

If net immigration remains at the current levels for the next few years (and the next stats release is May 26 - so that could be key in the debate), the Tories are going to have a big problem convincing Tory-Ukip undecideds to vote Tory to keep out Labour and the SNP.

FPT - Whoever this Simon Kelner is, he is a total and utter tosspot.

If the vote is to leave, then we leave, and we will also need a new PM to take charge of the process of withdrawal.

I am now a firm Remainer but if the people decide otherwise, then no obstacle must be placed to frustrate their decision.

tlg86 said:

GIN1138 said:

The Tories are a busted flush. They've nailed their colours to the mast and they are as devoted to the EU project as the rest.

This is a very good point. Even if we vote to stay in the EU I'm glad this referendum has happened for the very reason that it's flushed out where the politicians really stand on this. If Ukip play their cards right after the referendum they should be able to get something of a boost as they will be the only party for out.

If net immigration remains at the current levels for the next few years (and the next stats release is May 26 - so that could be key in the debate), the Tories are going to have a big problem convincing Tory-Ukip undecideds to vote Tory to keep out Labour and the SNP.

UKIP's a waste of space IMO (with Farage leading it anyway)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36094575

Will this affect remains chances even though Norway is not in the E.U?

Hopefully after this huge lead for remain, leave will finaly get their s*it together, and it looks like crosby was right the propaganda leaflet has had an effect.

Danny565 said:

Isn't the Remain lead still smaller than the No Campaign's lead in the Scottish Referendum at this stage?

Kinda, but there were fewer Yes leads at the equivalent stage.

tlg86 said:

GIN1138 said:

The Tories are a busted flush. They've nailed their colours to the mast and they are as devoted to the EU project as the rest.

This is a very good point. Even if we vote to stay in the EU I'm glad this referendum has happened for the very reason that it's flushed out where the politicians really stand on this. If Ukip play their cards right after the referendum they should be able to get something of a boost as they will be the only party for out.

If net immigration remains at the current levels for the next few years (and the next stats release is May 26 - so that could be key in the debate), the Tories are going to have a big problem convincing Tory-Ukip undecideds to vote Tory to keep out Labour and the SNP.

Well the Conservatives will certainly have a very difficult time attracting eurosceptic votes again, after their leadership has turned into something resembling the EU's propaganda department.

It's one thing backing REMAIN, but the extreme arguments and tone they have used means they have burnt their bridges as far as even moderate eurosceptics are concerned.

Scott_P said:

GIN1138 said:

I'm willing Labour to ditch Corbyn and get someone credible

No sign of it any time soon

There will be no moves before the referendum. Most Labour MPs want to stay in the EU even more than they want to get rid of Corbyn. All efforts will be directed to that end until 24th June.

However, I do believe that it is as certain as these things can be that there will be an attempt by the PLP to oust Corbyn in the not too distant future but not, I think, in 2016.

GIN1138 said:

Dixie said:

An utter disgrace. Our money being used to back the reaminers

Make sure you remember it on polling day in 2020. No matter what else is going on THE number one priority in 2020 will be:

GET OSBORNE OUT

Even if it means we have to let Jezza in.

Osborne will be out in 2016 IMO,

Dixie said:

GIN1138 said:

Dixie said:

An utter disgrace. Our money being used to back the reaminers

Make sure you remember it on polling day in 2020. No matter what else is going on THE number one priority in 2020 will be:

GET OSBORNE OUT

Even if it means we have to let Jezza in.

Osborne will not make the top 2 in the race from backbenchers. Most are leavers so he has no chance.

I wouldn't be so sure of that... I think the Tories will give it to Osborne as Labour gave it to Brown... And the outcome will be similar (but hopefully even more humiliating for Osborne than it was for Brown)

JohnO said:

FPT - Whoever this Simon Kelner is, he is a total and utter tosspot.

If the vote is to leave, then we leave, and we will also need a new PM to take charge of the process of withdrawal.

I am now a firm Remainer but if the people decide otherwise, then no obstacle must be placed to frustrate their decision.

Exactly my attitude as a remainer

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dave and George's strategy working once again it appears, despite the doubts.

Yes, but they are destroying their party in the process. It will be a Pyrrhic victory... When Labour gets their act together the Tories are facing a long time in the wilderness, IMO.

Country before Party some might say.

Riddle me this:

When Labour forms it's next government and they're doing everything they can to submerge us into the Euro and the USE how on Earth will the Tory Party be able to go from their absolute devotion and love for all thing EU that we currently see to defending the Pound and British government?

The Tories are a busted flush. They've nailed their colours to the mast and they are as devoted to the EU project as the rest. There will be absolutely nobody left to defend this country from the next impending wave of integration.

You can see where the End Game is and it'll be all thanks to Cameron and Osborne.

Still we've got the destruction, humiliation and evisceration of Osborne to savor first so it's not all bad news...

This is all very reminiscent of ConHome in the run up to the 2007 Tory conference, when every Dave and George hater were predicting Dave would be out by 2008.

You're a traitor. There. I said it

And right now, I believe it

And if I am thinking this, then who else thinks the same. OK maybe 2%.

But it's enough. You think this country isn't good enough to survive on her own? VILE.

Oh hun.

This country is awesome and the bestest in the whole world.

What other country could see a former drug addict become such a successful author?

And I really enjoyed your Bhutan piece.

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dave and George's strategy working once again it appears, despite the doubts.

Yes, but they are destroying their party in the process. It will be a Pyrrhic victory... When Labour gets their act together the Tories are facing a long time in the wilderness, IMO.

Country before Party some might say.

Riddle me this:

When Labour forms it's next government and they're doing everything they can to submerge us into the Euro and the USE how on Earth will the Tory Party be able to go from their absolute devotion and love for all thing EU that we currently see to defending the Pound and British government?

The Tories are a busted flush. They've nailed their colours to the mast and they are as devoted to the EU project as the rest. There will be absolutely nobody left to defend this country from the next impending wave of integration.

You can see where the End Game is and it'll be all thanks to Cameron and Osborne.

Still we've got the destruction, humiliation and evisceration of Osborne to savor first so it's not all bad news...

This is all very reminiscent of ConHome in the run up to the 2007 Tory conference, when every Dave and George hater were predicting Dave would be out by 2008.

You're a traitor. There. I said it

And right now, I believe it

And if I am thinking this, then who else thinks the same. OK maybe 2%.

But it's enough. You think this country isn't good enough to survive on her own? VILE.

Yes, but your earlier post certainly conveyed the impression that you yourself could vote no safe in the knowledge that remain will win.

BTW I must be one of the infinitesimal number of posters who is already out and about campaigning, albeit for the local elections. Naturally we don't ourselves raise the referendum on the doorstep but a fair few of our residents bring it up spontaneously and 90% of them are for Leave. And this is a prosperous part of Surrey. I'm a Remainer but increasingly I don't trust the polls.

SeanT said:

I fear this mirrors my personal observation.

Literally in the last couple of days I've see convinced LEAVERS start to mumble and haver, and REMAINIANS look more convinced. I speak of friends and relatives. Project BRICK YOURSELF is working

Ah well. At least I get to vote OUT while maintaining London property values, thus ensuring my own prosperity, while I still get to call the REMAINIANS vile and despicable traitors, until the very end of time.

Which I will. Because you are.

The best thing to do is make the positive case for a self-governing democracy and then ask Remainers to explain why they think we're incapable of that.

JohnO said:

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dave and George's strategy working once again it appears, despite the doubts.

Yes, but they are destroying their party in the process. It will be a Pyrrhic victory... When Labour gets their act together the Tories are facing a long time in the wilderness, IMO.

Country before Party some might say.

Riddle me this:

When Labour forms it's next government and they're doing everything they can to submerge us into the Euro and the USE how on Earth will the Tory Party be able to go from their absolute devotion and love for all thing EU that we currently see to defending the Pound and British government?

The Tories are a busted flush. They've nailed their colours to the mast and they are as devoted to the EU project as the rest. There will be absolutely nobody left to defend this country from the next impending wave of integration.

You can see where the End Game is and it'll be all thanks to Cameron and Osborne.

Still we've got the destruction, humiliation and evisceration of Osborne to savor first so it's not all bad news...

This is all very reminiscent of ConHome in the run up to the 2007 Tory conference, when every Dave and George hater were predicting Dave would be out by 2008.

You're a traitor. There. I said it

And right now, I believe it

And if I am thinking this, then who else thinks the same. OK maybe 2%.

But it's enough. You think this country isn't good enough to survive on her own? VILE.

Yes, but your earlier post certainly conveyed the impression that you yourself could vote no safe in the knowledge that remain will win.

BTW I must be one of the infinitesimal number of posters who is already out and about campaigning, albeit for the local elections. Naturally we don't ourselves raise the referendum on the doorstep but a fair few of our residents bring it up spontaneously and 90% of them are for Leave. And this is a prosperous part of Surrey. I'm a Remainer but increasingly I don't trust the polls.

Argh, goddamn it. You were my litmus test for the referendum result.

Here in NE Hants, I think the split I'm "feeling" exactly reflects the polls. I think we'll break 55:45 Remain atm.

Danny565 said:

Isn't the Remain lead still smaller than the No Campaign's lead in the Scottish Referendum at this stage?

The campaign is only just emerging into people's consciousness and I think it is too early to be certain but if the trend continues over the next fortnight and especially post the may elections I think remain may well win on 58%+

SeanT said:

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

I'm already there if you hadn't noticed!

SeanT said:

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

Problem is, after this referendum the Tories will be busted flush. Nobody will believe a eurosceptic word that comes out of these so called eurosceptics mouths.

Scott_P said:

GIN1138 said:

When Labour gets their act together

Dave and George will have retired by then...

Yep and it will be funny if we still have a PB and your still on it posting away for the new tory leader like Boris.

Luckyguy1983 said:

I'm afraid that's what comes of putting idealistic ivory tower Tories in charge of anything. Haven't got the balls or the brains they were born with, or Daniel Hannan would be running the Tory party.

I think this is right.

Michael Gove's speech, with all his high-flown abstract stuff about "democratic liberation", is not sell-able to Joe Public. They want to hear what specifically what leaving the EU will do (on immigration, national security, NHS, etcetc.), not grand flowery rhetoric which is only "inspiring" to political wonks.

Remain have gotten quite good at saying what specifically they think the EU does (even if their claims are very dubious), with their claims of "Brexit will cost every household £x000" - a marked improvement on the abstract stuff like "Britain's place in the world" which they were trying to peddle early in the campaign.

PeterC said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

anothernick said:

Scott_P said:

GIN1138 said:

I'm willing Labour to ditch Corbyn and get someone credible

No sign of it any time soon

There will be no moves before the referendum. Most Labour MPs want to stay in the EU even more than they want to get rid of Corbyn. All efforts will be directed to that end until 24th June.

However, I do believe that it is as certain as these things can be that there will be an attempt by the PLP to oust Corbyn in the not too distant future but not, I think, in 2016.

I reckon next May, post August/September 2016, the hope is the three quidder/entryists who joined to elect Corby won't renew.

What's to stop them rejoining if their hero is threatened? Where is the evidence of a yearning for another Blairite suit?

Perhaps not a Blairite in trouser suit. But a soft-left candidate??

Casino_Royale said:

JohnO said:

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dave and George's strategy working once again it appears, despite the doubts.

Yes, but they are destroying their party in the process. It will be a Pyrrhic victory... When Labour gets their act together the Tories are facing a long time in the wilderness, IMO.

Country before Party some might say.

The Tories are a busted flush. They've nailed their colours to the mast and they are as devoted to the EU project as the rest. There will be absolutely nobody left to defend this country from the next impending wave of integration.

You can see where the End Game is and it'll be all thanks to Cameron and Osborne.

Still we've got the destruction, humiliation and evisceration of Osborne to savor first so it's not all bad news...

This is all very reminiscent of ConHome in the run up to the 2007 Tory conference, when every Dave and George hater were predicting Dave would be out by 2008.

You're a traitor. There. I said it

And right now, I believe it

And if I am thinking this, then who else thinks the same. OK maybe 2%.

But it's enough. You think this country isn't good enough to survive on her own? VILE.

Yes, but your earlier post certainly conveyed the impression that you yourself could vote no safe in the knowledge that remain will win.

BTW I must be one of the infinitesimal number of posters who is already out and about campaigning, albeit for the local elections. Naturally we don't ourselves raise the referendum on the doorstep but a fair few of our residents bring it up spontaneously and 90% of them are for Leave. And this is a prosperous part of Surrey. I'm a Remainer but increasingly I don't trust the polls.

Argh, goddamn it. You were my litmus test for the referendum result.

Here in NE Hants, I think the split I'm "feeling" exactly reflects the polls. I think we'll break 55:45 Remain atm.

Look, I honestly don't know and this very evening a resident asked me directly how I would vote in June. Shame on me, I was convinced he was an outer and that by saying I was likely a Remainer I would forfeit his vote. My fellow candidate said she was likely to be a leaver (we are very close friends). The resident said he was equally torn between yes or no and we all agreed that it was an incredibly difficult decision but that we shouldn't fall out over it.

Democracy is Wonderful and Trust the People almost an axiom. Collectively, they seldom get it wrong.

Danny565 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

I'm afraid that's what comes of putting idealistic ivory tower Tories in charge of anything. Haven't got the balls or the brains they were born with, or Daniel Hannan would be running the Tory party.

I think this is right.

Michael Gove's speech, with all his high-flown abstract stuff about "democratic liberation", is not sell-able to Joe Public. They want to hear what specifically what leaving the EU will do (on immigration, national security, NHS, etcetc.), not grand flowery rhetoric.

I thought that as I listened to it

watford30 said:

SeanT said:

Aside from the fact that all these IN or YES or TAKE ME NOW FRANCE voters are UTTER traitors we need to factor in the emotional backlash from all this.

As I've been saying for months - when I first predicted a REMAIN win - I cannot see how it fails to follow the Scottish model. REMAIN wins, and then Britain, especially the rightwing, will be engulfed in turmoil and self hatred, as we deal with out national inability to defeat these europhile quislings, and, let's be fair, our own failure of nerve.

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

Even if such a person won the leadership election, they'll have a devil of a job getting at least half the party to trust and believe them, and then stay as members.

Hence while uniting any time soon looks unachievable. Some have outright said things would be fine if the leader were for Leave, no trouble in the party, but as much as people talk about the payroll vote and threats from the leadership, since Cameron and his clique are being called out as ardent europhiles, it is inconceivable to me that some of those backing Remain are not, you know, genuine Remainers. I don't doubt some of the 150+ Tory Mps backing Remain are gutless and backing the leadership, but even optimistically for Leave plenty of them must be true believers.

If Cameron is knifed after a Remain win, those Remainer MPs don't seem likely to take it kindly (if Leave win I think the fight will go out of them in the short term at least). Take him out too soon after a Remain win and the trouble flares up even under a more skeptic but acceptable figure, but if he remains in place too long, on his current schedule, and the Leavers would I guess not see the point in pretending unity, since the longer Cameron stays on the better chance he can hand over to a successor of his ilk.

So really I think they would be well served in holding off the Letters to spark a contest for a bit, let the anger simmer, then make sure he knows he ain't lasting till 2019/20 and force a contest in 2017.

SeanT said:

Aside from the fact that all these IN or YES or TAKE ME NOW FRANCE voters are UTTER traitors we need to factor in the emotional backlash from all this.

As I've been saying for months - when I first predicted a REMAIN win - I cannot see how it fails to follow the Scottish model. REMAIN wins, and then Britain, especially the rightwing, will be engulfed in turmoil and self hatred, as we deal with out national inability to defeat these europhile quislings, and, let's be fair, our own failure of nerve.

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

It fails to follow the Scottish model because for most voters it's not a big issue. It is for some and they will be very angry about it. As you imply, they will mainly be dyed-in-the-wool Tories and UKIPers, so a relatively small part of the population. Turnout for the EU referendum will not be close to the turnout in Scotland back in 2014.

taffys said:

watford30 said:

SeanT said:

Aside from the fact that all these IN or YES or TAKE ME NOW FRANCE voters are UTTER traitors we need to factor in the emotional backlash from all this.

As I've been saying for months - when I first predicted a REMAIN win - I cannot see how it fails to follow the Scottish model. REMAIN wins, and then Britain, especially the rightwing, will be engulfed in turmoil and self hatred, as we deal with out national inability to defeat these europhile quislings, and, let's be fair, our own failure of nerve.

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

Even if such a person won the leadership election, they'll have a devil of a job getting at least half the party to trust and believe them, and then stay as members.

Cameron and Osborne have salted the earth.

Whilst a waverer at times I've voted tory all my life but would never again believe any conservative leader who said he or she was a eurosceptic.

This referendum is revealing a great deal and for me it's an extremely bitter experience already.

I sincerely hope no tory canvassers come to my door in E&W, Mr John O.

I wouldn't say I'll never vote Tory again but Labour will have to %^&* the economy big time to get me to swing back to Con's (which of course they will because they always do but until it happens I won't vote Con again)

GIN1138 said:

Tykejohnno said:

Scott_P said:

GIN1138 said:

When Labour gets their act together

Dave and George will have retired by then...

Yep and it will be funny if we still have a PB and your still on it posting away for the new tory leader like Boris.

Part of my desire to see Osborne become leader and then defeated badly in the subsequent election is to see how much Scott frantically posts and retweets during the doomed election campaign!

That would be funny.

John)

Democracy is Wonderful and Trust the People almost an axiom. Collectively, they seldom get it wrong.

-------------------------

Nice sentiments John but it's a shame your party leadership doesn't share them. Force-feeding the public blatant propaganda isn't about trusting the people.

taffys said:

watford30 said:

SeanT said:

Aside from the fact that all these IN or YES or TAKE ME NOW FRANCE voters are UTTER traitors we need to factor in the emotional backlash from all this.

As I've been saying for months - when I first predicted a REMAIN win - I cannot see how it fails to follow the Scottish model. REMAIN wins, and then Britain, especially the rightwing, will be engulfed in turmoil and self hatred, as we deal with out national inability to defeat these europhile quislings, and, let's be fair, our own failure of nerve.

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

Even if such a person won the leadership election, they'll have a devil of a job getting at least half the party to trust and believe them, and then stay as members.

Cameron and Osborne have salted the earth.

Whilst a waverer at times I've voted tory all my life but would never again believe any conservative leader who said he or she was a eurosceptic.

This referendum is revealing a great deal and for me it's an extremely bitter experience already.

I sincerely hope no tory canvassers come to my door in E&W, Mr John O.

Well, as you live in one of the safest RA wards, I think I can safely say this is unlikely. Which probably suits us both in the circumstances.

But we still run a pretty good council though, wouldn't you agree?

Corbyn or McDonnell or their replacement will promise to raise some taxes for well-off people, and all 2016's grousers will vote Conservative.

watford30 said:

taffys said:

watford30 said:

SeanT said:

Aside from the fact that all these IN or YES or TAKE ME NOW FRANCE voters are UTTER traitors we need to factor in the emotional backlash from all this.

As I've been saying for months - when I first predicted a REMAIN win - I cannot see how it fails to follow the Scottish model. REMAIN wins, and then Britain, especially the rightwing, will be engulfed in turmoil and self hatred, as we deal with out national inability to defeat these europhile quislings, and, let's be fair, our own failure of nerve.

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

Even if such a person won the leadership election, they'll have a devil of a job getting at least half the party to trust and believe them, and then stay as members.

Cameron and Osborne have salted the earth.

Whilst a waverer at times I've voted tory all my life but would never again believe any conservative leader who said he or she was a eurosceptic.

This referendum is revealing a great deal and for me it's an extremely bitter experience already.

I sincerely hope no tory canvassers come to my door in E&W, Mr John O.

Local and Police Commissioner elections coming up in a few weeks in this part of Surrey, and I shall be thinking long and hard about sticking it to them here.
.

I hope they don't take my probable spoiled ballot in the PCC election as sticking it to them. For that one at least I want it clear that I wish to stick it to the concept of PCCs.

Question - if I decided to mark the boxes in valid fashion, but then also wrote on the paper that picking party hacks for PCCs is a terrible idea, would that remain a valid vote? I couldn't be identified from it and my choice would still be clear.

I know no-one would care what I wrote, but with the PCCs I begin to see why people have the urge to write things on their ballots.

taffys said:

watford30 said:

SeanT said:

Aside from the fact that all these IN or YES or TAKE ME NOW FRANCE voters are UTTER traitors we need to factor in the emotional backlash from all this.

As I've been saying for months - when I first predicted a REMAIN win - I cannot see how it fails to follow the Scottish model. REMAIN wins, and then Britain, especially the rightwing, will be engulfed in turmoil and self hatred, as we deal with out national inability to defeat these europhile quislings, and, let's be fair, our own failure of nerve.

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

Even if such a person won the leadership election, they'll have a devil of a job getting at least half the party to trust and believe them, and then stay as members.

Cameron and Osborne have salted the earth.

Whilst a waverer at times I've voted tory all my life but would never again believe any conservative leader who said he or she was a eurosceptic.

This referendum is revealing a great deal and for me it's an extremely bitter experience already.

I sincerely hope no tory canvassers come to my door in E&W, Mr John O.

Just like today with crabb , blaming brexit for the rise in unemployment,moved priti patel out of the way to get the remain propaganda out,if I was her I would resign.

Watched a interview with crabb and you could tell even he didn't believe the bull of what he was saying,he looked very uneasy.

This today and with cameron/osborne bull has made me realise what a bunch of lying bast*rds we have in power.

taffys said:

JohnO said:

taffys said:

watford30 said:

SeanT said:

Aside from the fact that all these IN or YES or TAKE ME NOW FRANCE voters are UTTER traitors we need to factor in the emotional backlash from all this.

As I've been saying for months - when I first predicted a REMAIN win - I cannot see how it fails to follow the Scottish model. REMAIN wins, and then Britain, especially the rightwing, will be engulfed in turmoil and self hatred, as we deal with out national inability to defeat these europhile quislings, and, let's be fair, our own failure of nerve.

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

Even if such a person won the leadership election, they'll have a devil of a job getting at least half the party to trust and believe them, and then stay as members.

Cameron and Osborne have salted the earth.

Whilst a waverer at times I've voted tory all my life but would never again believe any conservative leader who said he or she was a eurosceptic.

This referendum is revealing a great deal and for me it's an extremely bitter experience already.

I sincerely hope no tory canvassers come to my door in E&W, Mr John O.

Well, as you live in one of the safest RA wards, I think I can safely say this is unlikely. Which probably suits us both in the circumstances.

But we still run a pretty good council though, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, Esher and Walton is great to live in. Recently there was an incident with some travellers pitching up near me and I was extremely impressed with the way the whole thing was handled efficiently and yet with a light touch, so to speak.

I'm surprised its 90% out, what you hear on the doorstep, very interesting nevertheless.

Thanks and that is encouraging to hear. BTW, after six years which I have enjoyed enormously and hope to have done some good, I'm stepping down as leader, though I hope my residents in Hersham will see me returned. But fair do's if I've outstayed my welcome.

GIN1138 said:

taffys said:

watford30 said:

SeanT said:

Aside from the fact that all these IN or YES or TAKE ME NOW FRANCE voters are UTTER traitors we need to factor in the emotional backlash from all this.

As I've been saying for months - when I first predicted a REMAIN win - I cannot see how it fails to follow the Scottish model. REMAIN wins, and then Britain, especially the rightwing, will be engulfed in turmoil and self hatred, as we deal with out national inability to defeat these europhile quislings, and, let's be fair, our own failure of nerve.

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

Even if such a person won the leadership election, they'll have a devil of a job getting at least half the party to trust and believe them, and then stay as members.

Cameron and Osborne have salted the earth.

Whilst a waverer at times I've voted tory all my life but would never again believe any conservative leader who said he or she was a eurosceptic.

This referendum is revealing a great deal and for me it's an extremely bitter experience already.

I sincerely hope no tory canvassers come to my door in E&W, Mr John O.

I wouldn't say I'll never vote Tory again but Labour will have to %^&* the economy big time to get me to swing back to Con's (which of course they will because they always do but until it happens I won't vote Con again)

It isn't that cameron and osborne are remainers, I get that and it is fine. Its the way they have conducted their campaign. Very revealing, and very shocking.

JohnO said:

taffys said:

JohnO said:

taffys said:

watford30 said:

SeanT said:

Aside from the fact that all these IN or YES or TAKE ME NOW FRANCE voters are UTTER traitors we need to factor in the emotional backlash from all this.

As I've been saying for months - when I first predicted a REMAIN win - I cannot see how it fails to follow the Scottish model. REMAIN wins, and then Britain, especially the rightwing, will be engulfed in turmoil and self hatred, as we deal with out national inability to defeat these europhile quislings, and, let's be fair, our own failure of nerve.

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

Even if such a person won the leadership election, they'll have a devil of a job getting at least half the party to trust and believe them, and then stay as members.

Cameron and Osborne have salted the earth.

Whilst a waverer at times I've voted tory all my life but would never again believe any conservative leader who said he or she was a eurosceptic.

This referendum is revealing a great deal and for me it's an extremely bitter experience already.

I sincerely hope no tory canvassers come to my door in E&W, Mr John O.

Well, as you live in one of the safest RA wards, I think I can safely say this is unlikely. Which probably suits us both in the circumstances.

But we still run a pretty good council though, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, Esher and Walton is great to live in. Recently there was an incident with some travellers pitching up near me and I was extremely impressed with the way the whole thing was handled efficiently and yet with a light touch, so to speak.

I'm surprised its 90% out, what you hear on the doorstep, very interesting nevertheless.

Thanks and that is encouraging to hear. BTW, after six years which I have enjoyed enormously and hope to have done some good, I'm stepping down as leader, though I hope my residents in Hersham will see me returned. But fair do's if I've outstayed my welcome.

Best of luck Mr O!

SeanT said:

JohnO said:

SeanT said:

JohnO said:

Casino_Royale said:

JohnO said:

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dave and George's strategy working once again it appears, despite the doubts.

Yes, but they are destroying their party in the process. It will be a Pyrrhic victory... When Labour gets their act together the Tories are facing a long time in the wilderness, IMO.

Country before Party some might say.

You can see where the End Game is and it'll be all thanks to Cameron and Osborne.

Still we've got the destruction, humiliation and evisceration of Osborne to savor first so it's not all bad news...

This is all very reminiscent of ConHome in the run up to the 2007 Tory conference, when every Dave and George hater were predicting Dave would be out by 2008.

You're a traitor. There. I said it

And right now, I believe it

And if I am thinking this, then who else thinks the same. OK maybe 2%.

But it's enough. You think this country isn't good enough to survive on her own? VILE.

Yes, but your earlier post certainly conveyed the impression that you yourself could vote no safe in the knowledge that remain will win.

n't trust the polls.

Argh, goddamn it. You were my litmus test for the referendum result.

Here in NE Hants, I think the split I'm "feeling" exactly reflects the polls. I think we'll break 55:45 Remain atm.

Look, I honestly don't know and this very evening a resident asked me directly how I would vote in June. Shame on me, I was convinced he was an outer and that by saying I was likely a Remainer I would forfeit his

Democracy is Wonderful and Trust the People almost an axiom. Collectively, they seldom get it wrong.

No. You're a traitor.

You know I seriously thought we might have an adult exchange of views on what might be happening at the grass roots but I guess it iwill soon be back to the colestomy bag insults. OK.

Try not being a traitor then. Just an idea.

Consider it as a new hobby: ooh look, I can NOT betray my country. This is fun! We can govern ourselves!

But at least I can say that I wouldn't betray my country because of the property prices in my already hugely expensive part of town. Oh the anguish of being a patriot.

taffys said:

JohnO said:

taffys said:

JohnO said:

taffys said:

watford30 said:

SeanT said:

Aside from the fact that all these IN or YES or TAKE ME NOW FRANCE voters are UTTER traitors we need to factor in the emotional backlash from all this.

As I've been saying for months - when I first predicted a REMAIN win - I cannot see how it fails to follow the Scottish model. REMAIN wins, and then Britain, especially the rightwing, will be engulfed in turmoil and self hatred, as we deal with out national inability to defeat these europhile quislings, and, let's be fair, our own failure of nerve.

The emotional reaction will be identical to that in Scotland, certainly on the right. Tories will turn on Cameron. He will be hated as The Great Betrayer. Worse than Heath. C*nts like Matthew Parris will endure intolerable scorn.

The Tories will need a very seriously eurosceptic leader to unite behind.

Even if such a person won the leadership election, they'll have a devil of a job getting at least half the party to trust and believe them, and then stay as members.

Cameron and Osborne have salted the earth.

Whilst a waverer at times I've voted tory all my life but would never again believe any conservative leader who said he or she was a eurosceptic.

This referendum is revealing a great deal and for me it's an extremely bitter experience already.

I sincerely hope no tory canvassers come to my door in E&W, Mr John O.

Well, as you live in one of the safest RA wards, I think I can safely say this is unlikely. Which probably suits us both in the circumstances.

But we still run a pretty good council though, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, Esher and Walton is great to live in. Recently there was an incident with some travellers pitching up near me and I was extremely impressed with the way the whole thing was handled efficiently and yet with a light touch, so to speak.

I'm surprised its 90% out, what you hear on the doorstep, very interesting nevertheless.

Thanks and that is encouraging to hear. BTW, after six years which I have enjoyed enormously and hope to have done some good, I'm stepping down as leader, though I hope my residents in Hersham will see me returned. But fair do's if I've outstayed my welcome.

Best of luck Mr O!

Thanks, that's kind of you.