politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Forget Paul Ryan, it’s Cruz or bust for the NeverTrump camp

malcolmg said:

richardDodd said:

I wonder if MG has a drawer full of medals from risking his life serving the UK right through WW2...or any other war conflict..

Old doddery bumping his stupid gums again , why not regale us on hopw you were a miner and had your finger on the nuclear button when you commanded your submarine and assorted other dribble that you post ad nauseum. You get more dittery by the day doddery, unfortunately just as odious and nasty as ever. "Richard" by nature as well as name.

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:

JosiasJessop said:

malcolmg said:

JosiasJessop said:

Indigo said:

SouthamObserver said:

Indigo said:

SouthamObserver said:

Roger said:

Indigo said:

The story behind the story of PanamaGate is fascinating.

http://www.wired.com/2016/04/reporters-pulled-off-panama-papers-biggest-leak-whistleblower-history/

Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.

Panama may not have a choice.

Its still pushing water up hill.

(*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...

Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we

Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme.

Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant

I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?

Alan, simple , it is a bit like George's deals with the Chinese , it is borrowing money , except ours will not be used for nuclear power stations and excessive electricity prices. Kind of beats the paltry sum Westminster allows them to borrow by a country mile.

Right, but who is lender of last resort ? It can be the UK govt or you would have had Osborne grinning all over the place. So if it's the people of Scotland it looks like you've all agreed to send £2000 each to the Chinese. Why ?

We are loaded Alan, oil on way back up , soon we will be lighting our fags with twenties.

Theuniondivvie said:

Wanderer said:

Roger said:

Nick

"Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

(Of course Junior has no responsibility for the actions of his father)

Because paying tax is not a question of private morality, it's simply a matter of obeying the law. If the law allows people to pay less tax then it's not immoral for them to take advantage.

If we think this kind of activity is objectionable it is our governments we to need look to.

Isn't it quite possible to obey the letter of the law while also being immoral? I'm sure most massive tax avoiders will consider being called 'immoral' by the powerless as a price well worth paying.

Pulpstar said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

ydoethur said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Moses_ said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

peter_from_putney said:

Moses_ said:

It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.

Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?

LOL
Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .

The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

Hooray, quote working again.

The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.

Loads of people read the Guardian. That's not their problem. They are one of the world's biggest websites.

Their problem is that no one pays for it.

Who would have thought that after years of deriding people who paid for news and websites who charged for it they would build up a user base which was comfortable getting it all for free and blocking their adverts at the same time. The sanctimonious gits deserve it and all of those who predicted that it would be The Times that was looking at winding up after they introduced the pay wall should refrain from making further predictions about this.

Adblock is a great invention, I only turn it off for this website and a few other "chosen ones"

Moses_ said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

NickPalmer said:

Both Brown and Osborne have shown some signs of concern about this, and as a result of their efforts with some support from the US, places like the Channel Islands are at least a bit more transparent.

Both Channel Islands are more transparent than either Britain or the US......

Ha Ha Ha

Oh dear, who to believe?

The Turnip Tourette from Ayrshire, or The Economist and the Financial Action Task Force......

http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21571554-some-onshore-jurisdictions-can-be-laxer-offshore-sort-not-palm-tree-sight

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:

JosiasJessop said:

malcolmg said:

JosiasJessop said:

Indigo said:

SouthamObserver said:

Indigo said:

SouthamObserver said:

Roger said:

Indigo said:

The story behind the story of PanamaGate is fascinating.

http://www.wired.com/2016/04/reporters-pulled-off-panama-papers-biggest-leak-whistleblower-history/

Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.

Panama may not have a choice.

Its still pushing water up hill.

(*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...

Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we

Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme.

Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant

I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?

Alan, simple , it is a bit like George's deals with the Chinese , it is borrowing money , except ours will not be used for nuclear power stations and excessive electricity prices. Kind of beats the paltry sum Westminster allows them to borrow by a country mile.

Right, but who is lender of last resort ? It can be the UK govt or you would have had Osborne grinning all over the place. So if it's the people of Scotland it looks like you've all agreed to send £2000 each to the Chinese. Why ?

We are loaded Alan, oil on way back up , soon we will be lighting our fags with twenties.

If you're lighting them sat beside an oil terminal that might not be a good idea.

Moses_ said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.

MaxPB said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Wanderer said:

Roger said:

Nick

"Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

(Of course Junior has no responsibility for the actions of his father)

Because paying tax is not a question of private morality, it's simply a matter of obeying the law. If the law allows people to pay less tax then it's not immoral for them to take advantage.

If we think this kind of activity is objectionable it is our governments we to need look to.

Isn't it quite possible to obey the letter of the law while also being immoral? I'm sure most massive tax avoiders will consider being called 'immoral' by the powerless as a price well worth paying.

Then it is up to the government to tighten up the law and close the loopholes. Part of the reason our tax code is so exploitable is because it's 17,000 pages long according to the ICAEW. We should bin it and start again from zero.

Theuniondivvie said:

Moses_ said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.

Eh?!

ydoethur said:

While it is annoying that wealthy people avoid tax, it is much more annoying that we have a 1,000 page tax code that is so opaque avoiding tax becomes easy. The German tax code is less than 300 pages. Guess which country it's easier to avoid tax in.

JosiasJessop said:

MaxPB said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Wanderer said:

Roger said:

Nick

"Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

(Of course Junior has no responsibility for the actions of his father)

Because paying tax is not a question of private morality, it's simply a matter of obeying the law. If the law allows people to pay less tax then it's not immoral for them to take advantage.

If we think this kind of activity is objectionable it is our governments we to need look to.

Isn't it quite possible to obey the letter of the law while also being immoral? I'm sure most massive tax avoiders will consider being called 'immoral' by the powerless as a price well worth paying.

Then it is up to the government to tighten up the law and close the loopholes. Part of the reason our tax code is so exploitable is because it's 17,000 pages long according to the ICAEW. We should bin it and start again from zero.

Like the NHS, the tax book is something you can probably only tinker with rather than start afresh. Doing so would cause vested interests on all sides to scream so much that progress would be impossible. If you did progress, you might end up with something bigger than we have now. Look at the madness over the spare room subsidy (which was not even a tax) for a start.

The public (including myself) don't understand tax, and especially the detail. All people know is that they should be paying less, whilst unnamed others (usually 'the rich') should be paying more. Oddly, the line where people class others as 'rich' is usually above their own income.

Moses_ said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Moses_ said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.

Eh?!

Oops Getting the battles mixed up. Battle of Matapan. WW2

Sorry I was just reading a book recently about naval battles in WW1

malcolmg said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:

JosiasJessop said:

malcolmg said:

JosiasJessop said:

Indigo said:

SouthamObserver said:

Indigo said:

SouthamObserver said:

Roger said:

Indigo said:

The story behind the story of PanamaGate is fascinating.

http://www.wired.com/2016/04/reporters-pulled-off-panama-papers-biggest-leak-whistleblower-history/

Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.

Panama may not have a choice.

Its still pushing water up hill.

(*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...

Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we

Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme.

Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant

I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?

Alan, simple , it is a bit like George's deals with the Chinese , it is borrowing money , except ours will not be used for nuclear power stations and excessive electricity prices. Kind of beats the paltry sum Westminster allows them to borrow by a country mile.

Right, but who is lender of last resort ? It can be the UK govt or you would have had Osborne grinning all over the place. So if it's the people of Scotland it looks like you've all agreed to send £2000 each to the Chinese. Why ?

We are loaded Alan, oil on way back up , soon we will be lighting our fags with twenties.

Good news. Now the rest of the UK can stop subsidizing you.

Normal service resumed, we will be once again , as per last 40 years , be paying for London and the spivs.

Moses_ said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Moses_ said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.

Eh?!

Oops Getting the battles mixed up. Battle of Matapan. WW2

Sorry I was just reading a book recently about naval battles in WW1

dr_spyn said:

Wasn't Prince Philip mentioned in dispatches during The Battle of Cape Matapan in 1941.

malcolmg said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Moses_ said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.

Eh?!

Got a bagful at Trafalgar as well no doubt. These Royals get them easy.

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Moses_ said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.

Lots of officers got mentions based on the bravery of their men, some deserved some maybe not so.

malc

did you escape the great cull ?

Theuniondivvie said:

Moses_ said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Moses_ said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.

Eh?!

Oops Getting the battles mixed up. Battle of Matapan. WW2

Sorry I was just reading a book recently about naval battles in WW1

Perhaps since they've run out of contemporaneous medals for Phil they'll start awarding retrospective ones.

The Order of King Alfred for gallantry against the beastly Norsemen.

ydoethur said:

david_herdson said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

Not to the extent of deserving more medals than Wavell or Charles Upham.

Philip is technically still a serving officer of the RN so picks up all the Jubilee medals, the same as anyone else (quite remarkably, he has both the George VI Coronation medal and the Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee medal). Inevitably, that adds up to quite a lot, on top of, for example the Atlantic Star, Burma Star, Africa Star, Italy Star, 1939-45 Star and so on.

So the general was right- he did get quite a lot for marrying his wife! (He wouldn't still be a serving officer if he hadn't married her, and for 70-odd years his duties have been purely ceremonial anyway.)

Nobody disputes he had a distinguished war record. But the point was, he was mocking somebody for having medals some of which he presumably hadn't earned, when he also has medals he hasn't earned in any meaningful sense.

richardDodd said:

MG..I was a miner and did some time on a Nuclear Submarine..never got near the red button tho..have you ever done anything exciting or adventurous..be lovely to know ..

dr_spyn said:

Moses_ said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.

Prince Philip had many qualities as a naval officer, but serving his country before 1921 wasn't one of his achievements.

MonikerDiCanio said:

malcolmg said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:

JosiasJessop said:

malcolmg said:

JosiasJessop said:

Indigo said:

SouthamObserver said:

Indigo said:

SouthamObserver said:

Roger said:

Indigo said:

The story behind the story of PanamaGate is fascinating.

http://www.wired.com/2016/04/reporters-pulled-off-panama-papers-biggest-leak-whistleblower-history/

Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.

Panama may not have a choice.

Its still pushing water up hill.

(*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...

Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we

Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme.

Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant

I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?

?

We are loaded Alan, oil on way back up , soon we will be lighting our fags with twenties.

Good news. Now the rest of the UK can stop subsidizing you.

Normal service resumed, we will be once again , as per last 40 years , be paying for London and the spivs.

Those nasty spivs at RBS and BoS, it was a rotten business.

Confused Monica , surely you meant Lloyd's and Nat West

ydoethur said:

Roger said:

ydoethur said:

Roger said:

Nick

"Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

(Of course Junior has no esponsibility for the actions of his father)

While it is annoying that wealthy people avoid tax, it is much more annoying that we have a 1,000 page tax code that is so opaque avoiding tax becomes easy. The German tax code is less than 300 pages. Guess which country it's easier to avoid tax in.

That is why, to coin a phrase, I agree with Nick that clamping down on it, by tax reform for preference, would be popular and a good move. The problem is that the only people advocating it at the moment are written out of politics by the public for other reasons.

As it happens I believe the German 'tax book' is among the most complicated and full in the world. I know this from having worked with two well known ones who unfortunately for them never got to the end.

Indeed? I was told otherwise. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. That will teach me the valuable lesson never to trust an international financier sound he ever so plausible. The fact remains that ours is too big and unwieldy, and accepting the earlier point that laws are easier to add than remove, a wholesale rewrite would be better than what's happening now.

Two well known tax books who never got to the end of themselves or is there a word missing?

ydoethur said:

Roger said:

Nick

"Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

(Of course Junior has no esponsibility for the actions of his father)

While it is annoying that wealthy people avoid tax, it is much more annoying that we have a 1,000 page tax code that is so opaque avoiding tax becomes easy. The German tax code is less than 300 pages. Guess which country it's easier to avoid tax in.

That is why, to coin a phrase, I agree with Nick that clamping down on it, by tax reform for preference, would be popular and a good move. The problem is that the only people advocating it at the moment are written out of politics by the public for other reasons.

Roger said:

ydoethur said:

Roger said:

ydoethur said:

Roger said:

Nick

"Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

(Of course Junior has no esponsibility for the actions of his father)

While it is annoying that wealthy people avoid tax, it is much more annoying that we have a 1,000 page tax code that is so opaque avoiding tax becomes easy. The German tax code is less than 300 pages. Guess which country it's easier to avoid tax in.

That is why, to coin a phrase, I agree with Nick that clamping down on it, by tax reform for preference, would be popular and a good move. The problem is that the only people advocating it at the moment are written out of politics by the public for other reasons.

As it happens I believe the German 'tax book' is among the most complicated and full in the world. I know this from having worked with two well known ones who unfortunately for them never got to the end.

Indeed? I was told otherwise. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. That will teach me the valuable lesson never to trust an international financier sound he ever so plausible. The fact remains that ours is too big and unwieldy, and accepting the earlier point that laws are easier to add than remove, a wholesale rewrite would be better than what's happening now.

Two well known tax books who never got to the end of themselves or is there a word missing?

Sorry should have read 'i worked with two well known Germans who were not as well versed in their own tax book as they should have been'. As the cases are well known it's not a secret but it still feels a bit like gossip and I like them both.

richardDodd said:

MG...yet another sophisticated response..shouldn't you be out doing some turnip weeding or whatever it is you do

Plato_Says said:

Norman Smith
Labour leader @jeremycorbyn says direct rule cd be imposed "within days" on British overseas territories over tax avoidance

Erm isn't that colonialism? What a nitwit.

FrancisUrquhart said:

And todays of so usual story from Germany...

Two Afghanistan migrant men force 14-year-old boy to perform sex acts on them at a swimming pool in Germany

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3524048/Two-Afghanistan-migrant-men-force-14-year-old-boy-perform-sex-acts-swimming-pool-Germany.html

MonikerDiCanio said:

malcolmg said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

malcolmg said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:

JosiasJessop said:

malcolmg said:

JosiasJessop said:

Indigo said:

SouthamObserver said:

Indigo said:

SouthamObserver said:

Roger said:

Indigo said:

The story behind the story of PanamaGate is fascinating.

http://www.wired.com/2016/04/reporters-pulled-off-panama-papers-biggest-leak-whistleblower-history/

Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

Panama may not have a choice.

Its still pushing water up hill.

(*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...

Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we

Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme.

Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant

I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?

?

We are loaded Alan, oil on way back up , soon we will be lighting our fags with twenties.

Good news. Now the rest of the UK can stop subsidizing you.

Normal service resumed, we will be once again , as per last 40 years , be paying for London and the spivs.

Those nasty spivs at RBS and BoS, it was a rotten business.

Confused Monica , surely you meant Lloyd's and Nat West

Salmond's " Celtic Lion " speech.
" With RBS and HBoS .......Scotland has global leaders today, tomorrow and for long-term."

Another loser on here obsessed with Salmond, can you turkeys not get a life rather than fixating on a man that lives in another country and has no connection with you or your paranoia.

watford30 said:

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Moses_ said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.

Lots of officers got mentions based on the bravery of their men, some deserved some maybe not so.

malc

did you escape the great cull ?

Yes I am classed as client facing/not disposable, today is the last day for victims to be told they are walking the plank.
I expect there to be more this year for sure , it is a real cull for sure this year.

You're client facing?!!!

No wonder the business is going down.

david_herdson said:

ydoethur said:

david_herdson said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

Roger said:

"Is that a Panama Hat?"

The Queen picks another winner

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.

He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'

Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.

Not to the extent of deserving more medals than Wavell or Charles Upham.

Philip is technically still a serving officer of the RN so picks up all the Jubilee medals, the same as anyone else (quite remarkably, he has both the George VI Coronation medal and the Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee medal). Inevitably, that adds up to quite a lot, on top of, for example the Atlantic Star, Burma Star, Africa Star, Italy Star, 1939-45 Star and so on.

So the general was right- he did get quite a lot for marrying his wife! (He wouldn't still be a serving officer if he hadn't married her, and for 70-odd years his duties have been purely ceremonial anyway.)

Nobody disputes he had a distinguished war record. But the point was, he was mocking somebody for having medals some of which he presumably hadn't earned, when he also has medals he hasn't earned in any meaningful sense.

In one sense, yes; in another sense, no.

Philip was tipped to go right to the top had he not married Elizabeth (as his uncle and grandfather did). Philip graduated as top cadet on his course and became the one of the youngest lieutenants in the fleet in 1942, having previously finished top in four of his five exam classes. There has to be a good chance that he would have ended up an admiral on merit and that far from enhancing his career, his marriage cut it short.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Plato_Says said:

Norman Smith
Labour leader @jeremycorbyn says direct rule cd be imposed "within days" on British overseas territories over tax avoidance

Erm isn't that colonialism? What a nitwit.

He has in mind the Turks and Caicos, I asuume.

I like to imagine our direct rule there being preceded by "now where did we leave the Governor's villa again?"

ydoethur said:

Alistair said:

Wanderer said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Wanderer said:

Because paying tax is not a question of private morality, it's simply a matter of obeying the law. If the law allows people to pay less tax then it's not immoral for them to take advantage.

If we think this kind of activity is objectionable it is our governments we to need look to.

Isn't it quite possible to obey the letter of the law while also being immoral? I'm sure most massive tax avoiders will consider being called 'immoral' by the powerless as a price well worth paying.

Yes, things can be legal but immoral. Cheating on your partner, for example.

I don't think legal tax avoidance falls into that category primarily because the obligation to pay tax in the first place is legal, not moral. That's to say, if there were no taxes at all (say, if the state financed its activities by selling carpets) there would be no moral obligation to donate money to the state. I think it's also interesting that people do not instinctively feel that small scale legal tax avoidance is immoral. If you told me you had an ISA I wouldn't look askance at you.

I would also say that paying tax is part of the individual's relationship with the state and that we should regulate that relationship by law, not by appeals to personal morality or name-and-shame.

None of this implies that we shouldn't raise taxes or close loopholes that allow legal avoidance.

Because an ISA isn't tax avoidance!

Tax avoidance is adding economically unnecessary steps to financial transactions for the sole purpose of generating a tax relief.

No, it is tax avoidance. It is a legal way of arranging your affairs to minimise the tax you pay. That meets the definition.

You are talking about aggressive tax avoidance schemes. Legally, if not morally, there is no difference between the two.

Which is why a simpler law, making these schemes much harder, would be A Good Thing and Memorable.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Indigo, I wonder what he thinks of the Falklands. Probably still wants direct rule, albeit from Buenos Aires.

MonikerDiCanio said:

taffys said:

What the left thinks about offshore havens is irrelevant.

Its what the aspirational middle classes think that counts. I reckon many are utterly sick of being tax soaked by the wealthy elite to pay for their consciences.

Quite.

" David Cameron yesterday named the massive increase in Britain’s foreign aid budget as his ‘proudest achievement’ in Government."

Sickening.

runnymede said:

Selling coffees in Italy probably doesn't appeal all that much to our youngsters.

On a serious note, this again shows how out of touch with reality our top politicians are. They generalise to the whole country from their own incredibly narrow, upper middle-class existences.