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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Forget Paul Ryan, it’s Cruz or bust for the NeverTrump camp

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  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,770
    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
    Loads of people read the Guardian. That's not their problem. They are one of the world's biggest websites.

    Their problem is that no one pays for it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Hilarious market :)
  • FattyBolgerFattyBolger Posts: 299

    Anecdotage... 4or5 REMAIN campaigners out and about in Ledbury centre on Saturday morning.... Not obviously promising territory for them. From my brief observations while MrsFB was in and out of shops they were getting a distinctly less encouraging reaction than the OUT types the other week. A lot of curt headshakes when leaflets were offered, people movingtothe outside of the pavement and averting their gaze when passing them.... Totally subjective iknow

    Also Mrs FB educated professional generally interested and well informed lady thatshe is has already declared herself heartedly fed up to the back teeth with all this referendum stuff.... Bored to tears by it. It seems excitement maynot be building!, outside this site that is. I forecast a low turnout

    .... and what would that forecast be Mr. FB?
    Perhaps 50-55% or thereabouts...... It all strikes me as a situation where a great many people genuinely do not know on the merits whichof the numerous arguments of a very complicated multi faceted situation to believe or give weight to.... And therefore blanking it and hiding it in the mental"too difficult drawer"....and simply disengaging. The chances of these people getting off their bottomsto traipse down the pollingstation on a nice summers evening are slight.



  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.

    I believe Panama is one of the very few, possibly the only, country in which bearer shares are still legal. Makes is pretty hard tax someone when you don't know who is the shareholder of the company from day to day. Attempts have been made to get the to clear it up before, but it's the only industry in the country that makes significant money and they are not about to cast their population back into the dark ages.

    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.

    There have been rumours for a while that China is considering making either HK or Macau a tax haven for international clients. Lots of nice liquidity for them. Be interesting to see what people try an do about a tax haven with a superpower backing it. Infact there already is one, Panama is only 13th on the world Bank Secrecy Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Secrecy_Index) The third is the USA, try getting them to tell you about accounts held in the USA by foreigners.
    Considering the Chinese are neck-deep in the Panama story, that wouldn't be a surprise: they'd have much more control.

    However isn't part of the reason that all these dictators, despots and criminals (*) put their money offshore from their own countries is access? Once it's out of their country it's harder for people in their own country to discover about it, and it's more accessible if the worst comes and they need to flee.

    Now a question: would it be possible for (say) the UK to ask Panama to freeze accounts belonging to terrorists and/or criminals? I'm guessing not.

    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Chortle .. :sunglasses:
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The Guardian is adds to the gaiety of the nation through achingly right on articles, every one of which seeks to find a new way to be an oppressed minority.
    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,004

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.

    Never confuse a huge story with a huge event (if it is: I remain to be convinced there).

    The former depends on what the public and media find fascinating; the latter depends on its influence on history. Quite a lot of work has been ongoing for years to tighten up on banking secrecy internationally; no-one in the media's cared beyond the financial pages. The leaks might have given that process a bit of a boost but once all the celeb-interest is mined out of them, the world will carry on much as before.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    .
    Pulpstar said:

    RUBIO RISING

    Back into 90 / 130 for GOP Nom !

    Cromwell was right
  • One aspect nobody seems to have mentioned yet is the impact this will have on Panama itself. Panama has no currency of its own and uses the US dollar. With no lender of last resort its banks are forced to maintain eye-wateringly high reserve ratios - they simply cannot be allowed to fail. Thus Panama has some of the world's most well capitalised but nonetheless risky banks. Banks which rely massively on trust and reputation to survive. I'm guessing the whole issue of trust and reputation in Panama and its financial services industry has taken a massive hit this week. A run on Panamanian banks would see the country sink.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited April 2016
    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
    I really enjoy reading the Guardian. How did a teacher become so embedded in right-wingery? Makbe this site makes people go native? Give or take some punctuation you're becming indistinguishable from Doddy
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    Patrick said:

    One aspect nobody seems to have mentioned yet is the impact this will have on Panama itself. Panama has no currency of its own and uses the US dollar. With no lender of last resort its banks are forced to maintain eye-wateringly high reserve ratios - they simply cannot be allowed to fail. Thus Panama has some of the world's most well capitalised but nonetheless risky banks. Banks which rely massively on trust and reputation to survive. I'm guessing the whole issue of trust and reputation in Panama and its financial services industry has taken a massive hit this week. A run on Panamanian banks would see the country sink.

    Is all the money held in Panama though? I might misremember, but I think they said on R4 this morning that much of the actual money passed through the Panamanian firm is held in other territories, such as the British Virgin Islands.

    It was very kind of Branson to patriotically brand a whole set of islands... ;)
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Alistair said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    RUBIO RISING

    Back into 90 / 130 for GOP Nom !

    Cromwell was right
    Many lost their head for saying so.

    Literally hundreds of years ago and financially hundreds of days ago ....
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited April 2016
    Roger..has the Butler forgotten to bring your brekky this morning..you seem a little tetchy....have the blighter flogged.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.



    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.

    There have been rumours for a while that China is considering making either HK or Macau a tax haven for international clients. Lots of nice liquidity for them. Be interesting to see what people try an do about a tax haven with a superpower backing it. Infact there already is one, Panama is only 13th on the world Bank Secrecy Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Secrecy_Index) The third is the USA, try getting them to tell you about accounts held in the USA by foreigners.
    Considering the Chinese are neck-deep in the Panama story, that wouldn't be a surprise: they'd have much more control.

    However isn't part of the reason that all these dictators, despots and criminals (*) put their money offshore from their own countries is access? Once it's out of their country it's harder for people in their own country to discover about it, and it's more accessible if the worst comes and they need to flee.

    Now a question: would it be possible for (say) the UK to ask Panama to freeze accounts belonging to terrorists and/or criminals? I'm guessing not.

    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253

    Patrick said:

    One aspect nobody seems to have mentioned yet is the impact this will have on Panama itself. Panama has no currency of its own and uses the US dollar. With no lender of last resort its banks are forced to maintain eye-wateringly high reserve ratios - they simply cannot be allowed to fail. Thus Panama has some of the world's most well capitalised but nonetheless risky banks. Banks which rely massively on trust and reputation to survive. I'm guessing the whole issue of trust and reputation in Panama and its financial services industry has taken a massive hit this week. A run on Panamanian banks would see the country sink.

    Is all the money held in Panama though? I might misremember, but I think they said on R4 this morning that much of the actual money passed through the Panamanian firm is held in other territories, such as the British Virgin Islands.

    It was very kind of Branson to patriotically brand a whole set of islands... ;)
    Just like the Channel Islands UK politicians complain amount.....is the money deposited in Jersey & Guernsey:

    1) Stored in a HUGE warehouse you can see from space, or
    2) Funnelled into the City of London.....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,004

    ydoethur said:

    The problem with this article is that it assumes the Republicans will literally choose anyone but Trump. However, by all accounts the Republican hierarchy are even more afraid of Cruz as candidate than they are at the thought of Trump being President. Cruz's policy positions make Trump's comments on abortion and mass construction look positively sane. He's not that different from Sarah Palin and he's not nearly as good-looking.

    Therefore, if the votes do fall as Keiran suggests, Trump will surely be the unenthusiastically endorsed nominee in order to stop Cruz.

    The only way I can see Trump being stopped under this scenario is if a late surge from Kasich brings him into play. But he's got a lot to do if he's to manage that.

    Mr Herdson has previously assured us that Kasich has no chance of securing the nomination, absolutely none whatsoever.
    Do you have the quote for that?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2016

    Roger..has the Butler forgotten to bring your brekky this morning..you seem a little tetchy....

    Peasant.

    The butler does not "bring your brekky"

    Standards clearly falling in PB households .. :frowning:
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    JQ..its me peasant upbringing guv..I am ever so sorry...and desperately humble
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited April 2016
    SkyNews
    Military dog who lost leg in Afghanistan to receive animal equivalent of Victoria Cross https://t.co/HfDMjXSTiI https://t.co/eD7URGiPmi

    Even a cat has one :astonished:
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.



    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.

    There have been rumours for a while that China is considering making either HK or Macau a tax haven for international clients. Lots of nice liquidity for them. Be interesting to see what people try an do about a tax haven with a superpower backing it. Infact there already is one, Panama is only 13th on the world Bank Secrecy Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Secrecy_Index) The third is the USA, try getting them to tell you about accounts held in the USA by foreigners.
    Considering the Chinese are neck-deep in the Panama story, that wouldn't be a surprise: they'd have much more control.

    However isn't part of the reason that all these dictators, despots and criminals (*) put their money offshore from their own countries is access? Once it's out of their country it's harder for people in their own country to discover about it, and it's more accessible if the worst comes and they need to flee.

    Now a question: would it be possible for (say) the UK to ask Panama to freeze accounts belonging to terrorists and/or criminals? I'm guessing not.

    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant
    I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

    Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited April 2016
    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner


    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178
    Roger said:

    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
    I really enjoy reading the Guardian. How did a teacher become so embedded in right-wingery? Makbe this site makes people go native? Give or take some punctuation you're becming indistinguishable from Doddy
    The lazy assumption that Teachers are left wing? Sir, you sound like Michael Gove. More than twice as many teachers read the Daily Mail as read all left wing newspapers (Guardian, Mirror, TES, Daily Sport*) combined. Moreover we are all fiercely competitive and wish government would get the f*** out of our lives - solidly libertarian sentiments.

    And who the heck is Doddy?

    *That is a joke, by the way.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JQ..its me peasant upbringing guv..I am ever so sorry...and desperately humble

    Indeed so.

    You have much to be "desperately humble" about .. :smile:
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    ydoethur said:

    The problem with this article is that it assumes the Republicans will literally choose anyone but Trump. However, by all accounts the Republican hierarchy are even more afraid of Cruz as candidate than they are at the thought of Trump being President. Cruz's policy positions make Trump's comments on abortion and mass construction look positively sane. He's not that different from Sarah Palin and he's not nearly as good-looking.

    Therefore, if the votes do fall as Keiran suggests, Trump will surely be the unenthusiastically endorsed nominee in order to stop Cruz.

    The only way I can see Trump being stopped under this scenario is if a late surge from Kasich brings him into play. But he's got a lot to do if he's to manage that.

    Mr Herdson has previously assured us that Kasich has no chance of securing the nomination, absolutely none whatsoever.
    Do you have the quote for that?
    I seem to remember you were arguing that Kasich had a slight chance the other day (which he does, imo).
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    ydoethur said:

    The problem with this article is that it assumes the Republicans will literally choose anyone but Trump. However, by all accounts the Republican hierarchy are even more afraid of Cruz as candidate than they are at the thought of Trump being President. Cruz's policy positions make Trump's comments on abortion and mass construction look positively sane. He's not that different from Sarah Palin and he's not nearly as good-looking.

    Therefore, if the votes do fall as Keiran suggests, Trump will surely be the unenthusiastically endorsed nominee in order to stop Cruz.

    The only way I can see Trump being stopped under this scenario is if a late surge from Kasich brings him into play. But he's got a lot to do if he's to manage that.

    Mr Herdson has previously assured us that Kasich has no chance of securing the nomination, absolutely none whatsoever.
    Do you have the quote for that?
    I seem to remember you were arguing that Kasich had a slight chance the other day (which he does, imo).
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Jack W.. Perhaps you should contact Madge..she has just advertised for a Butler..whose specific duties would be to deliver and collect her breakfast..Roger might be getting rid of his soon...Madge is such a peasant..
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE4EU Referendum Projection :

    Should The United Kingdom Remain A Member Of The European Union Or Leave The European Union?

    Remain 54% (-1) .. Leave 46% (+1)

    Turnout Projection 61% (NC)

    ......................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE4EU - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors For European Union
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    IIRC Lib Dems read the Mail most.
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
    I really enjoy reading the Guardian. How did a teacher become so embedded in right-wingery? Makbe this site makes people go native? Give or take some punctuation you're becming indistinguishable from Doddy
    The lazy assumption that Teachers are left wing? Sir, you sound like Michael Gove. More than twice as many teachers read the Daily Mail as read all left wing newspapers (Guardian, Mirror, TES, Daily Sport*) combined. Moreover we are all fiercely competitive and wish government would get the f*** out of our lives - solidly libertarian sentiments.

    And who the heck is Doddy?

    *That is a joke, by the way.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,312
    JackW said:

    Remain 54% (-1) .. Leave 46% (+1)

    Turnout Projection 61% (NC)

    Squeaky Bum Time.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    They've always gone in for fancy dress.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Wanderer said:

    I seem to remember you were arguing that Kasich had a slight chance the other day (which he does, imo).

    *** ANECDOTE ALERT ***

    Spoke to a US colleague yesterday who said he would vote for Kasich ahead of all the others
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178

    IIRC Lib Dems read the Mail most.

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
    I really enjoy reading the Guardian. How did a teacher become so embedded in right-wingery? Makbe this site makes people go native? Give or take some punctuation you're becming indistinguishable from Doddy
    The lazy assumption that Teachers are left wing? Sir, you sound like Michael Gove. More than twice as many teachers read the Daily Mail as read all left wing newspapers (Guardian, Mirror, TES, Daily Sport*) combined. Moreover we are all fiercely competitive and wish government would get the f*** out of our lives - solidly libertarian sentiments.

    And who the heck is Doddy?

    *That is a joke, by the way.
    Presumably for the same reason I read the Guardian :lol:

    Not that I should be churlish. I got my present job through an advert in the Guardian. Problem with advertising there is that so few teachers read it you don't get many applicants in shortage subjects - sometimes not enough to shortlist - unlike in the TES.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
    I really enjoy reading the Guardian. How did a teacher become so embedded in right-wingery? Makbe this site makes people go native? Give or take some punctuation you're becming indistinguishable from Doddy
    The lazy assumption that Teachers are left wing? Sir, you sound like Michael Gove. More than twice as many teachers read the Daily Mail as read all left wing newspapers (Guardian, Mirror, TES, Daily Sport*) combined. Moreover we are all fiercely competitive and wish government would get the f*** out of our lives - solidly libertarian sentiments.

    And who the heck is Doddy?

    *That is a joke, by the way.
    "twice as many read the Daily Mail as read all left wing papers........" Not a good indication of the quality of our teachers.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Guido Fawkes twists the knife on Guardian hypocrisy - https://t.co/eFprGfMOXH
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    edited April 2016

    I think we're all sickened by the selfish and greedy behaviour of a good chunk of the super rich.

    From a centre-right perspective, it means a far heavier tax burden on middle earners as well.
    Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more.

    Why Britain in particular? Because a number of tax havens come under the British crown, and using them is an integral part of City business. When I came back from working in Switzerland, I went for advice to a reputable IFA on where to put my savings etc., but specified that they should not go to a tax haven or anywhere else that would look suspicious even if it was perfectly legal. He said that was "an unusual request".

    Both Brown and Osborne have shown some signs of concern about this, and as a result of their efforts with some support from the US, places like the Channel Islands are at least a bit more transparent. But the basic system remains clearly broken, and it's against the interest on mainstream governments of every colour as well as the vast majority of taxpayers, both individuals and smaller companies.

    What seems to be needed in the long run is a global effort to set minimum tax rates, with places that don't comply subject to the sort of financial sanctions applied to Russia and Iran in recent years. (Yes, that means interfering with the sovereignty of the Virgin Islands. Tough.) In the short term, it means weighting taxation to address share of turnover and global income in the country where a company or individual is earning income.

    Difficult? Certainly. But a lot of people would vote for a party willing to make a ruthless effort to crack down on this (hello Jeremy, hello Bernie, maybe even hello Donald), and an unwillingness to do it does raise the question of whether the friends and financiers of governing parties are complicit.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Number Cruncher
    Rallings and Thrasher local election forecast:

    CON +50
    LAB -150
    LIB +40
    UKIP +40
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    IIRC Lib Dems read the Mail most.

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
    I really enjoy reading the Guardian. How did a teacher become so embedded in right-wingery? Makbe this site makes people go native? Give or take some punctuation you're becming indistinguishable from Doddy
    The lazy assumption that Teachers are left wing? Sir, you sound like Michael Gove. More than twice as many teachers read the Daily Mail as read all left wing newspapers (Guardian, Mirror, TES, Daily Sport*) combined. Moreover we are all fiercely competitive and wish government would get the f*** out of our lives - solidly libertarian sentiments.

    And who the heck is Doddy?

    *That is a joke, by the way.
    There are plenty of people who read the Daily Mail, but also condemn it on social media and tell their friends they hate it.

    The Daily Mail understands this perfectly.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE4EU Referendum Projection :

    Should The United Kingdom Remain A Member Of The European Union Or Leave The European Union?

    Remain 54% (-1) .. Leave 46% (+1)

    Turnout Projection 61% (NC)

    ......................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE4EU - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors For European Union

    Unlike previous ARSES I suspect this will experience greater fluctuations as we get closer. The campaign hasn't started yet and I sense few are thinking about it. I think the gap is going to be wide once the various arguments are professionally presented
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178
    perdix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
    I really enjoy reading the Guardian. How did a teacher become so embedded in right-wingery? Makbe this site makes people go native? Give or take some punctuation you're becming indistinguishable from Doddy
    The lazy assumption that Teachers are left wing? Sir, you sound like Michael Gove. More than twice as many teachers read the Daily Mail as read all left wing newspapers (Guardian, Mirror, TES, Daily Sport*) combined. Moreover we are all fiercely competitive and wish government would get the f*** out of our lives - solidly libertarian sentiments.

    And who the heck is Doddy?

    *That is a joke, by the way.
    "twice as many read the Daily Mail as read all left wing papers........" Not a good indication of the quality of our teachers.

    It doesn't say much for the quality of the left wing press either. All those spelling mistakes, for a start. When we read the news, we don't want to have to get our red pens out and continue marking.

    Must be a left wing thing. For example, would you believe somebody in this very thread criticised somebody else's punctuation and then forgot to put an 'o' in 'becoming'?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
    Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786

    Number Cruncher
    Rallings and Thrasher local election forecast:

    CON +50
    LAB -150
    LIB +40
    UKIP +40

    That would be a disaster for labour.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Nothing beats Kenny Everett here

    https://youtu.be/dMHDBL7CNA4
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
  • Roger said:

    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE4EU Referendum Projection :

    Should The United Kingdom Remain A Member Of The European Union Or Leave The European Union?

    Remain 54% (-1) .. Leave 46% (+1)

    Turnout Projection 61% (NC)

    ......................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE4EU - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors For European Union

    I think the gap is going to be wide once the various arguments are professionally presented
    Leave 60%
    Remain 40% ?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    Remain 54% (-1) .. Leave 46% (+1)

    Turnout Projection 61% (NC)

    Squeaky Bum Time.
    Hardly a rizla paper between them
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178
    edited April 2016



    Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more.

    Why Britain in particular? Because a number of tax havens come under the British crown, and using them is an integral part of City business. When I came back from working in Switzerland, I went for advice to a reputable IFA on where to put my savings etc., but specified that they should not go to a tax haven or anywhere else that would look suspicious even if it was perfectly legal. He said that was "an unusual request".

    Both Brown and Osborne have shown some signs of concern about this, and as a result of their efforts with some support from the US, places like the Channel Islands are at least a bit more transparent. But the basic system remains clearly broken, and it's against the interest on mainstream governments of every colour as well as the vast majority of taxpayers, both individuals and smaller companies.

    What seems to be needed in the long run is a global effort to set minimum tax rates, with places that don't comply subject to the sort of financial sanctions applied to Russia and Iran in recent years. (Yes, that means interfering with the sovereignty of the Virgin Islands. Tough.) In the short term, it means weighting taxation to address share of turnover and global income in the country where a company or individual is earning income.

    Difficult? Certainly. But a lot of people would vote for a party willing to make a ruthless effort to crack down on this (hello Jeremy, hello Bernie, maybe even hello Donald), and an unwillingness to do it does raise the question of whether the friends and financiers of governing parties are complicit.

    A fair series of points there Nick. Thing is though, while people like that policy, they won't vote for Jeremy or Bernard or Donald for other reasons.

    What's needed is for a party of boring competence to make this a big issue, not necessarily of fairness even but of efficiency. Then it would be an election winner.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999

    Nothing beats Kenny Everett here

    (Snip)

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
    Thanks! That was the show I was thinking of.

    Not that I'm comparing Prince Philip and Kenny Everett ... ;)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567
    Morning all,

    Interesting article, but I don't entirely buy it. If there are rules that allow a second (or more) ballots at a contested convention, then someone will attempt to use them, such is the antipathy to Trump. The politics can go hang. I'm not saying it'll work, but someone will something.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
    Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.
    Not to the extent of deserving more medals than Wavell or Charles Upham.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Matthew Goodwin
    How Britain's parties have performed since 2015 GE in Rallings & Thrasher local by-election model -> https://t.co/TYXSPJ8rN5

    Nice graph
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited April 2016
    Start again
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,004
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    They've always gone in for fancy dress.
    He earned most of them the hard way.

    The belt on Mrs Xi (?) looks like something she picked up from Primark.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited April 2016
    At this stage of the referendum cycle for SIndy the most wildly outlandish polls (Ipsos Mori and Yougov) were the ones showing 20 point wins for No/Remain.

    The debate/scare process will be the same from here on in, surely?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.



    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.

    There have been rumours for a while that China is considering making either HK or Macau a tax haven for international clients. Lots of nice liquidity for them. Be interesting to see what people try an do about a tax haven with a superpower backing it. Infact there already is one, Panama is only 13th on the world Bank Secrecy Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Secrecy_Index) The third is the USA, try getting them to tell you about accounts held in the USA by foreigners.
    Considering the Chinese are neck-deep in the Panama story, that wouldn't be a surprise: they'd have much more control.

    However isn't part of the reason that all these dictators, despots and criminals (*) put their money offshore from their own countries is access? Once it's out of their country it's harder for people in their own country to discover about it, and it's more accessible if the worst comes and they need to flee.

    Now a question: would it be possible for (say) the UK to ask Panama to freeze accounts belonging to terrorists and/or criminals? I'm guessing not.

    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant
    Ha Ha Ha , Toom Tabard takes time off from the cauldron to indulge in her obsessive hatred of Scotland. Everybody knows corrupt is spelt T O R Y.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
    Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.
    LOL, not that old chestnut.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.



    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.

    There have been rumours for a while that China is considering making either HK or Macau a tax haven for international clients. Lots of nice liquidity for them. Be interesting to see what people try an do about a tax haven with a superpower backing it. Infact there already is one, Panama is only 13th on the world Bank Secrecy Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Secrecy_Index) The third is the USA, try getting them to tell you about accounts held in the USA by foreigners.
    Considering the Chinese are neck-deep in the Panama story, that wouldn't be a surprise: they'd have much more control.

    However isn't part of the reason that all these dictators, despots and criminals (*) put their money offshore from their own countries is access? Once it's out of their country it's harder for people in their own country to discover about it, and it's more accessible if the worst comes and they need to flee.

    Now a question: would it be possible for (say) the UK to ask Panama to freeze accounts belonging to terrorists and/or criminals? I'm guessing not.

    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant
    Ha Ha Ha , Toom Tabard takes time off from the cauldron to indulge in her obsessive hatred of Scotland. Everybody knows corrupt is spelt T O R Y.
    It appears that Scottish education is in a worse state than I feared ...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited April 2016
    Nick

    "Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

    How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

    (Of course Junior has no responsibility for the actions of his father)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
    Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.
    LOL, not that old chestnut.
    Why is it wrong?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip,_Duke_of_Edinburgh#Naval_and_wartime_service

    Even allowing for connections, it appears he did quite well.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    edited April 2016
    malcolmg said:


    Ha Ha Ha , Toom Tabard takes time off from the cauldron to indulge in her obsessive hatred of Scotland. Everybody knows corrupt is spelt T O R Y.

    I guess Nicola is as blind as you.....

    We know that Alex Salmond made a habit of deferring to China on issues like the Dalai Lama. It seems that Nicola Sturgeon is following his example. We need to understand what level of scrutiny this deal received before it was signed.

    "The SNP have repeatedly used this Norwegian fund as a model for Scotland to follow. If they won’t do business with the parent company due to evidence of bribery and kickbacks, shouldn’t have that set alarm bells ringing?"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567

    Matthew Goodwin
    How Britain's parties have performed since 2015 GE in Rallings & Thrasher local by-election model -> https://t.co/TYXSPJ8rN5

    Nice graph

    Excellent material. If Labour fail to turn this flatlining into a substantial lead (say 8-10 points) by mid-term then Tories are safe IMHO.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE4EU Referendum Projection :

    Should The United Kingdom Remain A Member Of The European Union Or Leave The European Union?

    Remain 54% (-1) .. Leave 46% (+1)

    Turnout Projection 61% (NC)

    ......................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE4EU - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors For European Union



    The JackW ARSE projection looks about right to me (the winner of PBs competition for the Scottish referendum)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.



    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.

    Considering the Chinese are neck-deep in the Panama story, that wouldn't be a surprise: they'd have much more control.

    However isn't part of the reason that all these dictators, despots and criminals (*) put their money offshore from their own countries is access? Once it's out of their country it's harder for people in their own country to discover about it, and it's more accessible if the worst comes and they need to flee.

    Now a question: would it be possible for (say) the UK to ask Panama to freeze accounts belonging to terrorists and/or criminals? I'm guessing not.

    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant
    I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

    Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?
    Alan, simple , it is a bit like George's deals with the Chinese , it is borrowing money , except ours will not be used for nuclear power stations and excessive electricity prices. Kind of beats the paltry sum Westminster allows them to borrow by a country mile.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178
    edited April 2016
    Roger said:

    Nick

    "Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

    How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

    (Of course Junior has no esponsibility for the actions of his father)

    While it is annoying that wealthy people avoid tax, it is much more annoying that we have a 1,000 page tax code that is so opaque avoiding tax becomes easy. The German tax code is less than 300 pages. Guess which country it's easier to avoid tax in.

    That is why, to coin a phrase, I agree with Nick that clamping down on it, by tax reform for preference, would be popular and a good move. The problem is that the only people advocating it at the moment are written out of politics by the public for other reasons.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.



    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.

    Considering the Chinese are neck-deep in the Panama story, that wouldn't be a surprise: they'd have much more control.

    However isn't part of the reason that all these dictators, despots and criminals (*) put their money offshore from their own countries is access? Once it's out of their country it's harder for people in their own country to discover about it, and it's more accessible if the worst comes and they need to flee.

    Now a question: would it be possible for (say) the UK to ask Panama to freeze accounts belonging to terrorists and/or criminals? I'm guessing not.

    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant
    I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

    Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?
    Alan, simple , it is a bit like George's deals with the Chinese , it is borrowing money , except ours will not be used for nuclear power stations and excessive electricity prices.
    Paying bribes, by the looks of it......
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253

    Both Brown and Osborne have shown some signs of concern about this, and as a result of their efforts with some support from the US, places like the Channel Islands are at least a bit more transparent.

    Both Channel Islands are more transparent than either Britain or the US......
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.



    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.

    Considering the Chinese are neck-deep in the Panama story, that wouldn't be a surprise: they'd have much more control.

    However isn't part of the reason that all these dictators, despots and criminals (*) put their money offshore from their own countries is access? Once it's out of their country it's harder for people in their own country to discover about it, and it's more accessible if the worst comes and they need to flee.

    Now a question: would it be possible for (say) the UK to ask Panama to freeze accounts belonging to terrorists and/or criminals? I'm guessing not.

    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant
    I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

    Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?
    Alan, simple , it is a bit like George's deals with the Chinese , it is borrowing money , except ours will not be used for nuclear power stations and excessive electricity prices.
    Paying bribes, by the looks of it......
    Now you , A TORY , are accusing the government of being corrupt , back to your stirring and reading CHQ propaganda.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    Number Cruncher
    Rallings and Thrasher local election forecast:

    CON +50
    LAB -150
    LIB +40
    UKIP +40

    Is there a NEV for that lot ?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,004
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
    Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.
    Not to the extent of deserving more medals than Wavell or Charles Upham.
    Philip is technically still a serving officer of the RN so picks up all the Jubilee medals, the same as anyone else (quite remarkably, he has both the George VI Coronation medal and the Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee medal). Inevitably, that adds up to quite a lot, on top of, for example the Atlantic Star, Burma Star, Africa Star, Italy Star, 1939-45 Star and so on.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    I wonder if MG has a drawer full of medals from risking his life serving the UK right through WW2...or any other war conflict..
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    malcolmg said:



    Now you , A TORY , are accusing the government of being corrupt , back to your stirring and reading CHQ propaganda.

    It comes to something when the SNP Fantasy Time Machine 'Norwegian Oil Fund' backs a company that the real Norwegian Oil fund won't invest in:

    A lengthy report published by the Norwegian ethics council in October 2014 found that it is likely that China's railway minister was bribed to secure contracts for CRG, and that there was an "unacceptable future risk of corruption". Civil servants were likely to have been paid off for railways and housing projects - two areas in which the Scottish Government agreement highlights as possible areas of cooperation with the subsidiary.

    CRG was implicated in one of China's largest corruption cases, uncovered after 40 people were killed in a crash between high-speed trains in 2011 in the industrial city of Wenzhou, the document reveals.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Roger.. it is perfectly legal to avoid paying taxes where possible..and you no doubt do it yourself..evasion is a criminal offense..
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited April 2016
    Roger said:

    Nick

    "Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

    How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

    (Of course Junior has no responsibility for the actions of his father)

    Because paying tax is not a question of private morality, it's simply a matter of obeying the law. If the law allows people to pay less tax then it's not immoral for them to take advantage.

    If we think this kind of activity is objectionable it is our governments we to need look to.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,004
    Pulpstar said:

    Number Cruncher
    Rallings and Thrasher local election forecast:

    CON +50
    LAB -150
    LIB +40
    UKIP +40

    Is there a NEV for that lot ?
    Con 31 / Lab 30 / LD 16 / UKIP 12.

    LD 16 looks high to me. It might be what by-elections suggest but fighting a full set of elections is a different deal. That said, *targetting* gains may not be that different from by-elections, if starting at a low base.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    Nick

    "Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

    How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

    (Of course Junior has no esponsibility for the actions of his father)

    While it is annoying that wealthy people avoid tax, it is much more annoying that we have a 1,000 page tax code that is so opaque avoiding tax becomes easy. The German tax code is less than 300 pages. Guess which country it's easier to avoid tax in.

    That is why, to coin a phrase, I agree with Nick that clamping down on it, by tax reform for preference, would be popular and a good move. The problem is that the only people advocating it at the moment are written out of politics by the public for other reasons.
    There is certainly a lot of scope for tax reform, an area in which the current Chancellor has very little interest, unfortunately.

    But I think we need to be careful about suggesting there is scope for some vast rise in revenues from reducing evasion/avoidance.

    There are some very big numbers put out there by various left wing pressure groups but they are not based on very much. Is the UK's current tax yield very different from countries with similar GDP per head, average tax rates, etc.? I doubt it.

    I suspect the biggest 'tax break' by far relates to pension tax relief..hence Osborne casting his greedy eyes over that area recently.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    Nick

    "Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

    How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

    (Of course Junior has no esponsibility for the actions of his father)

    While it is annoying that wealthy people avoid tax, it is much more annoying that we have a 1,000 page tax code that is so opaque avoiding tax becomes easy. The German tax code is less than 300 pages. Guess which country it's easier to avoid tax in.

    That is why, to coin a phrase, I agree with Nick that clamping down on it, by tax reform for preference, would be popular and a good move. The problem is that the only people advocating it at the moment are written out of politics by the public for other reasons.
    The Gov'ts job is not to be a moral arbiter, it's to make law - and good law which brings in tax, and compels individuals and companies to pay what is due.
    A ratchet effect - as with benefits always takes place though, very easy to add more law; very hard to get rid of misformed law. Gordon Brown's tax film industry tax dodges spring to mind, Osborne at least tries.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Guido Fawkes twists the knife on Guardian hypocrisy - https://t.co/eFprGfMOXH

    LOL.....

    Those in glasshouses shouldn't throw squirrels ?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Number Cruncher
    Rallings and Thrasher local election forecast:

    CON +50
    LAB -150
    LIB +40
    UKIP +40

    Is there a NEV for that lot ?
    Con 31

    Lab 30

    LD 16

    UKIP 12
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723

    Both Brown and Osborne have shown some signs of concern about this, and as a result of their efforts with some support from the US, places like the Channel Islands are at least a bit more transparent.

    Both Channel Islands are more transparent than either Britain or the US......
    Ha Ha Ha
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    More ammunition for the LEAVE side here

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/04/health-tourists-cost-uk-taxpayers-nearly-6billion-in-eight-years/

    ...and evidence that Nicky Morgan's claims about young people feeling 'European' and being the 'Easyjet generation' are hot air

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/04/uk-jobs-wildly-popular-with-europeans--but-few-brits-want-to-mov/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    Pulpstar said:

    Number Cruncher
    Rallings and Thrasher local election forecast:

    CON +50
    LAB -150
    LIB +40
    UKIP +40

    Is there a NEV for that lot ?
    Con 31 / Lab 30 / LD 16 / UKIP 12.

    LD 16 looks high to me. It might be what by-elections suggest but fighting a full set of elections is a different deal. That said, *targetting* gains may not be that different from by-elections, if starting at a low base.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/05/27/guest-slot-rod-crosby-the-bell-tolls-for-labour-and-miliband/

    Labour have 4 years to improve the situation, but if that is the result, we're starting at a 13% lead for the Tories at the next election.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
    Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.
    Not to the extent of deserving more medals than Wavell or Charles Upham.
    Philip is technically still a serving officer of the RN so picks up all the Jubilee medals, the same as anyone else (quite remarkably, he has both the George VI Coronation medal and the Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee medal). Inevitably, that adds up to quite a lot, on top of, for example the Atlantic Star, Burma Star, Africa Star, Italy Star, 1939-45 Star and so on.
    So the general was right- he did get quite a lot for marrying his wife! (He wouldn't still be a serving officer if he hadn't married her, and for 70-odd years his duties have been purely ceremonial anyway.)

    Nobody disputes he had a distinguished war record. But the point was, he was mocking somebody for having medals some of which he presumably hadn't earned, when he also has medals he hasn't earned in any meaningful sense.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.



    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.

    Considering the Chinese are neck-deep in the Panama story, that wouldn't be a surprise: they'd have much more control.

    However isn't part of the reason that all these dictators, despots and criminals (*) put their money offshore from their own countries is access? Once it's out of their country it's harder for people in their own country to discover about it, and it's more accessible if the worst comes and they need to flee.

    Now a question: would it be possible for (say) the UK to ask Panama to freeze accounts belonging to terrorists and/or criminals? I'm guessing not.

    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant
    I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

    Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?
    Alan, simple , it is a bit like George's deals with the Chinese , it is borrowing money , except ours will not be used for nuclear power stations and excessive electricity prices. Kind of beats the paltry sum Westminster allows them to borrow by a country mile.
    Right, but who is lender of last resort ? It can be the UK govt or you would have had Osborne grinning all over the place. So if it's the people of Scotland it looks like you've all agreed to send £2000 each to the Chinese. Why ?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723
    edited April 2016

    I wonder if MG has a drawer full of medals from risking his life serving the UK right through WW2...or any other war conflict..

    Old doddery bumping his stupid gums again , why not regale us on hopw you were a miner and had your finger on the nuclear button when you commanded your submarine and assorted other dribble that you post ad nauseum. You get more dittery by the day doddery, unfortunately just as odious and nasty as ever. "Richard" by nature as well as name.

    PS;the royal family have hundreds of medals between them all well earned I am sure, much like all those backroom generals/admirals etc.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,178
    edited April 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Number Cruncher
    Rallings and Thrasher local election forecast:

    CON +50
    LAB -150
    LIB +40
    UKIP +40

    Is there a NEV for that lot ?
    Con 31 / Lab 30 / LD 16 / UKIP 12.

    LD 16 looks high to me. It might be what by-elections suggest but fighting a full set of elections is a different deal. That said, *targetting* gains may not be that different from by-elections, if starting at a low base.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/05/27/guest-slot-rod-crosby-the-bell-tolls-for-labour-and-miliband/

    Labour have 4 years to improve the situation, but if that is the result, we're starting at a 13% lead for the Tories at the next election.
    And surely a new Labour leader is inevitable on those numbers, coupled to a loss of control in Wales, possibly third in Scotland. An awful lot must be riding on London. If that is lost on top of all these it would be surprising were Corbyn not to face an immediate putsch.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.



    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.


    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant
    I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

    Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?
    Alan, simple , it is a bit like George's deals with the Chinese , it is borrowing money , except ours will not be used for nuclear power stations and excessive electricity prices. Kind of beats the paltry sum Westminster allows them to borrow by a country mile.
    Right, but who is lender of last resort ? It can be the UK govt or you would have had Osborne grinning all over the place. So if it's the people of Scotland it looks like you've all agreed to send £2000 each to the Chinese. Why ?
    We are loaded Alan, oil on way back up , soon we will be lighting our fags with twenties.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,347
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
    Loads of people read the Guardian. That's not their problem. They are one of the world's biggest websites.

    Their problem is that no one pays for it.
    Who would have thought that after years of deriding people who paid for news and websites who charged for it they would build up a user base which was comfortable getting it all for free and blocking their adverts at the same time. The sanctimonious gits deserve it and all of those who predicted that it would be The Times that was looking at winding up after they introduced the pay wall should refrain from making further predictions about this.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,390
    edited April 2016
    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    Nick

    "Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

    How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

    (Of course Junior has no responsibility for the actions of his father)

    Because paying tax is not a question of private morality, it's simply a matter of obeying the law. If the law allows people to pay less tax then it's not immoral for them to take advantage.

    If we think this kind of activity is objectionable it is our governments we to need look to.
    Isn't it quite possible to obey the letter of the law while also being immoral? I'm sure most massive tax avoiders will consider being called 'immoral' by the powerless as a price well worth paying.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    Nick

    "Yes, that's the point. I also don't blame Cameron for his father, and I'm not sure I even blame his father. The issue is that governments generally and the British Governments (of all parties) in particular tolerate a system in which people with good advice and certain types of income can entirely avoid tax, which means that everyone else has to pay MUCH more."

    How can you not blame a very wealthy person for trying to avoid tax? Do you really need the government to teach you morality? Shouldn't you take some responsibility for your own behaviour?

    (Of course Junior has no responsibility for the actions of his father)

    Because paying tax is not a question of private morality, it's simply a matter of obeying the law. If the law allows people to pay less tax then it's not immoral for them to take advantage.

    If we think this kind of activity is objectionable it is our governments we to need look to.
    The law doesn't tell you to find a law firm in Panama because there may be loopholes the ultra slippery can glide through. In my experience people are either honest or they're not. The law doesn't come into it
  • ComRes London Mayoral poll

    Sadiq Khan remains ahead of Zac Goldsmith in the race to be Mayor of London. The Labour candidate receives 44% of first round preferences - two points higher than in the last ComRes poll for ITV News and LBC in March. Zac Goldsmith is on 37% - two points lower. While these differences are within the margin of error, it supports the trend that Khan is ahead with a month to go.

    After second preferences have been re-allocated, Khan leads Goldsmith 55% to 45%.

    http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/itv-news-london-lbc-london-mayoral-poll/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Number Cruncher
    Rallings and Thrasher local election forecast:

    CON +50
    LAB -150
    LIB +40
    UKIP +40

    Is there a NEV for that lot ?
    Con 31 / Lab 30 / LD 16 / UKIP 12.

    LD 16 looks high to me. It might be what by-elections suggest but fighting a full set of elections is a different deal. That said, *targetting* gains may not be that different from by-elections, if starting at a low base.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/05/27/guest-slot-rod-crosby-the-bell-tolls-for-labour-and-miliband/

    Labour have 4 years to improve the situation, but if that is the result, we're starting at a 13% lead for the Tories at the next election.
    And surely a new Labour leader is inevitable on those numbers, coupled to a loss of control in Wales, possibly third in Scotland. An awful lot must be riding on London. If that is lost on top of all these it would be surprising were Corbyn not to face an immediate putsch.
    The good ol' medja won't be looking at that - Khan's success in London will be the story for Labour !
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Nothing would entertain me more than Labour coming third in Scotland. Entirely self inflicted. And after all their crowing.
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Number Cruncher
    Rallings and Thrasher local election forecast:

    CON +50
    LAB -150
    LIB +40
    UKIP +40

    Is there a NEV for that lot ?
    Con 31 / Lab 30 / LD 16 / UKIP 12.

    LD 16 looks high to me. It might be what by-elections suggest but fighting a full set of elections is a different deal. That said, *targetting* gains may not be that different from by-elections, if starting at a low base.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/05/27/guest-slot-rod-crosby-the-bell-tolls-for-labour-and-miliband/

    Labour have 4 years to improve the situation, but if that is the result, we're starting at a 13% lead for the Tories at the next election.
    And surely a new Labour leader is inevitable on those numbers, coupled to a loss of control in Wales, possibly third in Scotland. An awful lot must be riding on London. If that is lost on top of all these it would be surprising were Corbyn not to face an immediate putsch.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited April 2016

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
    Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.
    For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    It's good that these Panama Papers have exposed this tax evasion or is it avoidance? Interesting that the Guardian should be jumping up and down in indignation though?

    http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

    Oh Dear! Stones and glass houses, etc.
    Stones, glass houses and -- what is the collective noun for Look, Squirrels?
    LOL
    Ahh.. Tax avoidance by right bad ... Tax avoidance by left " look squirrel" . What's actually the difference between the Guardian and Cameron's Pops? The Guardian refuse to answer the same questions they demand others themselves answer openly .
    The sooner it's banned & its readers exterminated the sooner Britain will be Great again. Or am I missing something?

    Hooray, quote working again.

    The irony of the Grauniad, of course, is that without its - ahem - efficient tax arrangements it would have gone out of business years ago because almost nobody reads it. It looks though as if its final demise is approaching rapidly, tax arrangements or no. Personally I shall be rather sorry when that happens, as it is always useful to know what its 124 readers are thinking. All you have to do then is think the opposite and you'll usually be right.
    Loads of people read the Guardian. That's not their problem. They are one of the world's biggest websites.

    Their problem is that no one pays for it.
    Who would have thought that after years of deriding people who paid for news and websites who charged for it they would build up a user base which was comfortable getting it all for free and blocking their adverts at the same time. The sanctimonious gits deserve it and all of those who predicted that it would be The Times that was looking at winding up after they introduced the pay wall should refrain from making further predictions about this.
    Adblock is a great invention, I only turn it off for this website and a few other "chosen ones"
  • Off topic Mike is so biased against Remain he's ignored yet another poll showing Remain winning/Project Fear working.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,390
    edited April 2016
    Moses_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
    Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.
    For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.
    Eh?!
  • On topic I agree with Keiran.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Indigo said:
    Interesting and you really think this is a non story?

    It is a huge story. It increases the likelihood of concerted international action to prevent this kind of avoidance in such opaque jurisdictions. The choice of Panama by avoiders, as opposed to other offshore locations, is one of the fascinating aspects of this.



    Panama may not have a choice.

    Its still pushing water up hill.


    (*) Naturally not including Cameron's dad ...
    Naturally , we don't want any of the nasty Tory money tied up do we
    Naturally, no true Scotsman would have any money tied up in Panama. They learnt their lesson after the Darien Scheme. ;)
    Sturgeon's £10bn deal with firm owned by "grossly corrupt" Chinese construction giant

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14403389.Sturgeon_s___10bn_deal_with_firm_owned_by__quot_grossly_corrupt_quot__Chinese_construction_giant
    I'm still scratching my head as to what these deals are.

    Is it a kind of Scottisg PFI arrangement ?: And why does the hoots haggis party not want to use its local suppliers ?
    Alan, simple , it is a bit like George's deals with the Chinese , it is borrowing money , except ours will not be used for nuclear power stations and excessive electricity prices. Kind of beats the paltry sum Westminster allows them to borrow by a country mile.
    Right, but who is lender of last resort ? It can be the UK govt or you would have had Osborne grinning all over the place. So if it's the people of Scotland it looks like you've all agreed to send £2000 each to the Chinese. Why ?
    We are loaded Alan, oil on way back up , soon we will be lighting our fags with twenties.
    If you're lighting them sat beside an oil terminal that might not be a good idea.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    malcolmg said:

    Both Brown and Osborne have shown some signs of concern about this, and as a result of their efforts with some support from the US, places like the Channel Islands are at least a bit more transparent.

    Both Channel Islands are more transparent than either Britain or the US......
    Ha Ha Ha
    Oh dear, who to believe?

    The Turnip Tourette from Ayrshire, or The Economist and the Financial Action Task Force......

    http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21571554-some-onshore-jurisdictions-can-be-laxer-offshore-sort-not-palm-tree-sight
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    Moses_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    "Is that a Panama Hat?"

    The Queen picks another winner

    https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/2015/10/21/banquet-queen-a.jpg

    That bar of medals on Prince Philip's jacket is so long it looks like something out of a comedy sketch show.
    He once teased a Brazilian general for the number of medals he wore, suggesting Brazil hadn't done much fighting, only to get the retort, 'at least I didn't get them for marrying my wife.'
    Isn't that slightly unfair on him? He served with fair distinction in WWII, as I recall.
    For the record and balance he was also mentioned in dispatches for his conduct and bravery at the Battle of Jutland.
    Her wasn't even a trinkle in his father's eye when the Battle of Jutland took place ...
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