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SystemSystem Posts: 12,678
edited April 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As Trump’s favourability ratings get worse there are now suggestions that he doesn’t want the nomination after all

There’s an interesting article by John Fund just out in National Review speculating that really Mr. Trump doesn’t want the nomination and what we are seeing at the moment is what it describes as “self-sabotage”. Fund observes:

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    First like Leave.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    2nd like Remain
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    On topic. The Donald's odds have edged in a touch since yesterday.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,026
    I'd have thought the male/female gap would be bigger. Quite reassuring.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited April 2016
    Although I think the abortion blunder was a particularly serious one, I'm not sure that in general Trump's recent outrageous statements are any more outrageous than ones he's made all through the contest.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited April 2016
    Those graphs suggest shouldn't even be a contendah, let alone the leading contendah.

    And yet he is.

    Which is strange.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,727
    I said it the other night.

    Trump is Brewster from Brewster's Millions.

    He doesn't want to win, keeps on saying outrageous things so he has to quit, except all it does is boost his popularity.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,888
    Alright. So Trump will lose amongst men. And amongst women. But apart from that, he's doing well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,097
    Donald Trump will most likely end up at around 1220 delegates I think.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Sounds like bollocks.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,360
    How do Trump's favourability figures compare against Hillary's?

    Or Osborne's for that matter?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,097
    Mike is aware that the National Review is a very anti-Trump/pro-Cruz leaning publication ?

    Trump wants it alright. Whether he'll get it is another matter.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    I don't normally re-post from a previous thread but I don't normally put up betting tips either.
    so this time I will: FPT

    Tata's plan to reverse their inward direct investment (which we were all supposed to be so pleased about a few years ago) seems to have brought the fore several issues that our politicians have been trying to ignore or hide for a long time.

    Running a massive current account deficit for years on end actually does matter. Politicians prancing about on the "world stage", and introducing policies so they can "lead" on climate change has real costs that are carried by ordinary people. Politicians trying to organise, for their own electoral prospects, feel good factors warps policy and leads to poor governance.

    Then we have the crisis in public services. The word crisis is much over-used, but when it comes to health and education there is no other word that fits. Much of that is caused by the over-expansion of the size of the population without the commensurate investment in essential services, let alone long-term necessities like transport.

    All of this has been bubbling away for years but now, possibly because the EU Referendum is focusing minds on essentials, it seems to coming to the boil. A fecking great crash is on the horizon, I think.

    Politically, Labour ought to be steaming into the lead about now but, and forget Corbyn, they ain't because Labour have, for decades, been in favour of the issues that are driving this, possible, crash. Betting wise, I would, if I still thought I'd be around to collect, be putting money into the "angry" parties winning over the next ten years or so.

    As it is the next time I pass the betting shop I'll try and get a bet on that George Osborne won't be Chancellor in six months time.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    HurstLlama said:

    I don't normally re-post from a previous thread but I don't normally put up betting tips either.
    so this time I will: FPT

    Tata's plan to reverse their inward direct investment (which we were all supposed to be so pleased about a few years ago) seems to have brought the fore several issues that our politicians have been trying to ignore or hide for a long time.

    Running a massive current account deficit for years on end actually does matter. Politicians prancing about on the "world stage", and introducing policies so they can "lead" on climate change has real costs that are carried by ordinary people. Politicians trying to organise, for their own electoral prospects, feel good factors warps policy and leads to poor governance.

    Then we have the crisis in public services. The word crisis is much over-used, but when it comes to health and education there is no other word that fits. Much of that is caused by the over-expansion of the size of the population without the commensurate investment in essential services, let alone long-term necessities like transport.

    All of this has been bubbling away for years but now, possibly because the EU Referendum is focusing minds on essentials, it seems to coming to the boil. A fecking great crash is on the horizon, I think.

    Politically, Labour ought to be steaming into the lead about now but, and forget Corbyn, they ain't because Labour have, for decades, been in favour of the issues that are driving this, possible, crash. Betting wise, I would, if I still thought I'd be around to collect, be putting money into the "angry" parties winning over the next ten years or so.

    As it is the next time I pass the betting shop I'll try and get a bet on that George Osborne won't be Chancellor in six months time.

    For the music to stop, a refusenik election victory is necessary. Like Trump or Brexit. The signs aren;t that promising.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,026
    HurstLlama - it's noticeable how harsh even the Telegraph is being on Osborne. Looking into the tea leaves?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,888
    Mr. Llama, not sure it'll be that soon that Osborne goes.

    The timeframe requires Cameron to axe him. That seems unlikely.

    I do agree Osborne's goose is cooked.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Interestingly, US stocks are up today, even though crude's getting kicked again.

    The jobs report today showed that wage growth (finally!) may be starting to stir.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,781
    HurstLlama said:



    Politically, Labour ought to be steaming into the lead about now but, and forget Corbyn, they ain't because Labour have, for decades, been in favour of the issues that are driving this, possible, crash. Betting wise, I would, if I still thought I'd be around to collect, be putting money into the "angry" parties winning over the next ten years or so.

    We'll see. The media have for some time been portraying Corbyn as the bonkers outsider who favours outdated things like nationalisation and opposition to carefree globalisation. I think it'll be quite hard to portray him as part of the cosy Economist-style free trade consensus. Similarly, when the Iraq report finally staggers out, he'll be in a better position than most (including me, but also most front-benchers on both sides) if it's critical. He seems to me to be doing quite well over the steel issue in particular.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,097
    Interesting news from North Dakota

    It'll have 28 delegates, all unbound to the convention.

    If they go according to the online straw poll conducted:

    http://www.inforum.com/news/3982984-nd-rep-cramers-straw-poll-sees-strong-support-trump

    Then 12 should vote for Trump, 9 for Cruz, 6 for Marco, 1 for Kasich. Whether they do or not is another matter entirely !
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,888
    F1: second practice starts in about quarter of an hour. Got an inkling of a possible bet, but we'll see how things stack up. Things are a few hours later than usual in Bahrain, so the pre-qualifying piece will be in the early afternoon.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,971
    @Roger Just read the previous thread header, very interesting & thank you. Shall read the comments later.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,097
    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_28700919/colorado-republicans-cancel-2016-presidential-caucus-vote

    Colorado comes back into play...

    With the change, the only way Colorado Republican delegates would remain relevant is the remote chance that no candidate emerges as a clear winner in the primary contest. In this case, the state's unbound delegates would receive significant attention and may hold the key to victory in a floor fight.

    37 unbound delegates
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,914
    "While everyone is focusing on the collapse of Trump’s popularity, no one has really noticed that Cruz’s numbers are plummeting too."

    http://www.salon.com/2016/04/01/ted_cruz_is_no_savior_sorry_republicans_youre_probably_still_screwed_and_stuck_with_trump/
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    taffys said:

    Those graphs suggest shouldn't even be a contendah, let alone the leading contendah.

    And yet he is.

    Which is strange.

    The graphs don't measure primary or caucus participation. Winning nominations is about either getting about a quarter to a third of those who'll turn out in your primary strongly behind you or being a strong enough second favourite to be able to knock off challengers with enough weak points. Overall popularity doesn't necessarily come into it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,914
    The same Salon article also notes that:

    "His entire political persona is built around a zero-compromise approach to far-right conservative politics, and his general election game plan is to win by mobilizing conservative voters who allegedly “stayed home” in 2012"

    Change this to far-left and stay-at-home UK voters in 2015 and you have Corbyn's gameplan.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,727
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_28700919/colorado-republicans-cancel-2016-presidential-caucus-vote

    Colorado comes back into play...

    With the change, the only way Colorado Republican delegates would remain relevant is the remote chance that no candidate emerges as a clear winner in the primary contest. In this case, the state's unbound delegates would receive significant attention and may hold the key to victory in a floor fight.

    37 unbound delegates

    Don't forget South Carolina's 50 delegates

    http://time.com/4278295/donald-trump-loyalty-pledge-south-carolina-delegates/
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    david_herdson said:

    taffys said:

    Those graphs suggest shouldn't even be a contendah, let alone the leading contendah.

    And yet he is.

    Which is strange.

    The graphs don't measure primary or caucus participation. Winning nominations is about either getting about a quarter to a third of those who'll turn out in your primary strongly behind you or being a strong enough second favourite to be able to knock off challengers with enough weak points. Overall popularity doesn't necessarily come into it.
    Behold your Trump. Can there ever have been a bigger disconnect between US voters in Primaries and US voters in a potential election?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    SandyRentool said:

    How do Trump's favourability figures compare against Hillary's?

    Or Osborne's for that matter?

    Last tracker I saw was Trump -31. Hilary -13.

    Chasm.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    NickPalmer said:

    HurstLlama said:



    Politically, Labour ought to be steaming into the lead about now but, and forget Corbyn, they ain't because Labour have, for decades, been in favour of the issues that are driving this, possible, crash. Betting wise, I would, if I still thought I'd be around to collect, be putting money into the "angry" parties winning over the next ten years or so.

    We'll see. The media have for some time been portraying Corbyn as the bonkers outsider who favours outdated things like nationalisation and opposition to carefree globalisation. I think it'll be quite hard to portray him as part of the cosy Economist-style free trade consensus. Similarly, when the Iraq report finally staggers out, he'll be in a better position than most (including me, but also most front-benchers on both sides) if it's critical. He seems to me to be doing quite well over the steel issue in particular.
    When you say "doing well", what is he doing?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    "How the Virgin Islands could decide the GOP presidential nomination"

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/03/31/unbound-gop-delegates-picking-nominee/82430436/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,097
    Just under

    57% of delegates decided in the Democratic primaries btw
    75% for the GOP.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,888
    Meanwhile, in safe space land:
    https://twitter.com/CDP1882/status/715897893186568192
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,097
    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    China has 21 times our population. It's overproduced too much for it's own good, let alone ours.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,387
    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no meaningful indigenous iron ore deposits, and have no economic coal mines, we are never going to be a major player on the world steel stage. China, believe it or not, is moving back to being a coal exporter.

    Of course, some of our energy policies have made things worse, but ultimately we have no competitive advantage in steel production. Political policy designed to make the uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,387
    taffys said:

    Interestingly, US stocks are up today, even though crude's getting kicked again.

    The jobs report today showed that wage growth (finally!) may be starting to stir.

    We had good PMIs out of Europe this morning (except the UK and France too). There was some weak data out of Japan, mind.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,781
    I think Trump needs to make a few boring conventional speeches at this point, as otherwise the perception will be that he turned out in the final stages to be much screwier than had been thought, so cheating him out of the nomination is the right thing to do. To be a proper victim he needs to look less mad.

    All this reminds me of the wonderful play-by-email game Illuminati (an extrapolation of a simpler card game), in which you try to take over the world by influencing everyone from the environmentalists to the boy scouts by adjusting your image to fit them (and then changing once you've got them under your control). Image is measured by 9 different criteria, from conventional things like conservative/liberal to more exotic things like Weirdness, which will attract some groups and repel others. Trump needs to tone down the Weirdness a bit at this point.

    http://www.flyingbuffalo.com/illumin.htm
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Pulpstar said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    China has 21 times our population. It's overproduced too much for it's own good, let alone ours.
    You see this is where it gets confusing, you say there's too much steel around yet people are saying we don't make enough. Tata, losing £1m a day, are the bad guys.

    Basket case.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,387
    blackburn63 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    China has 21 times our population. It's overproduced too much for it's own good, let alone ours.
    You see this is where it gets confusing, you say there's too much steel around yet people are saying we don't make enough. Tata, losing £1m a day, are the bad guys.

    Basket case.
    I bet you their 'loss' includes depreciation and amortization.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no meaningful indigenous iron ore deposits, and have no economic coal mines, we are never going to be a major player on the world steel stage. China, believe it or not, is moving back to being a coal exporter.

    Of course, some of our energy policies have made things worse, but ultimately we have no competitive advantage in steel production. Political policy designed to make the uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
    You see now we're talking. I'm going on Dragon's Den to invite them to invest in a steel plant, if they say no I'll ask the govt.

    Basket case
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,387
    edited April 2016
    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no meaningful indigenous iron ore deposits, and have no economic coal mines, we are never going to be a major player on the world steel stage. China, believe it or not, is moving back to being a coal exporter.

    Of course, some of our energy policies have made things worse, but ultimately we have no competitive advantage in steel production. Political policy designed to make the uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
    You see now we're talking. I'm going on Dragon's Den to invite them to invest in a steel plant, if they say no I'll ask the govt.

    Basket case
    I'll bet you 50 quid that a new steel plant will be built in the UK in the next five years, if you like.

    It'll be a mini-mill, built next to a modern CCGT, based around an arc furnace, and using recycled steel as its feedstock, but it'll be built. Compared to Port Talbot, it'll need one-fifth the number of employees per tonne of rolled steel, and will have lower energy costs too.

    The problem with Port Talbot - and all big, old, integrated plants - is that it is cheaper to start anew than to modernise what was built 70 years ago.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,051
    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no meaningful indigenous iron ore deposits, and have no economic coal mines, we are never going to be a major player on the world steel stage. China, believe it or not, is moving back to being a coal exporter.

    Of course, some of our energy policies have made things worse, but ultimately we have no competitive advantage in steel production. Political policy designed to make the uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
    You see now we're talking. I'm going on Dragon's Den to invite them to invest in a steel plant, if they say no I'll ask the govt.

    Basket case
    I'll bet you 50 quid that a new steel plant will be built in the UK in the next five years, if you like.

    It'll be a mini-mill, built next to a modern CCGT, based around an arc furnace, and using recycled steel as its feedstock, but it'll be built. Compared to Port Talbot, it'll need one-fifth the number of employees per tonne of rolled steel, and will have lower energy costs too.

    The problem with Port Talbot - and all big, old, integrated plants - is that it is cheaper to start anew than to modernise what was built 70 years ago.
    But the problem with mini mills is you can't make the highest grade steels. For that you need a blast furnace.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,387
    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no meaningful indigenous iron ore deposits, and have no economic coal mines, we are never going to be a major player on the world steel stage. China, believe it or not, is moving back to being a coal exporter.

    Of course, some of our energy policies have made things worse, but ultimately we have no competitive advantage in steel production. Political policy designed to make the uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
    You see now we're talking. I'm going on Dragon's Den to invite them to invest in a steel plant, if they say no I'll ask the govt.

    Basket case
    I'll bet you 50 quid that a new steel plant will be built in the UK in the next five years, if you like.

    It'll be a mini-mill, built next to a modern CCGT, based around an arc furnace, and using recycled steel as its feedstock, but it'll be built. Compared to Port Talbot, it'll need one-fifth the number of employees per tonne of rolled steel, and will have lower energy costs too.

    The problem with Port Talbot - and all big, old, integrated plants - is that it is cheaper to start anew than to modernise what was built 70 years ago.
    But the problem with mini mills is you can't make the highest grade steels. For that you need a blast furnace.
    Hmmmm: when I last met Nucor management, they were of the view that they covered more than 90% of the value spectrum. (Which is probably 99% of the volume.)

    And, frankly, Port Talbot doesn't make the highest quality steels either.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    If Trump does win the nomination, then it could be the best result yet for the Libertarian Party. Which is some consolation.

    For those that might be interested, there is going to be the first ever televised Libertarian Party debate tonight on Fox.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,051
    rcs1000 said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no meaningful indigenous iron ore deposits, and have no economic coal mines, we are never going to be a major player on the world steel stage. China, believe it or not, is moving back to being a coal exporter.

    Of course, some of our energy policies have made things worse, but ultimately we have no competitive advantage in steel production. Political policy designed to make the uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
    You see now we're talking. I'm going on Dragon's Den to invite them to invest in a steel plant, if they say no I'll ask the govt.

    Basket case
    I'll bet you 50 quid that a new steel plant will be built in the UK in the next five years, if you like.

    It'll be a mini-mill, built next to a modern CCGT, based around an arc furnace, and using recycled steel as its feedstock, but it'll be built. Compared to Port Talbot, it'll need one-fifth the number of employees per tonne of rolled steel, and will have lower energy costs too.

    The problem with Port Talbot - and all big, old, integrated plants - is that it is cheaper to start anew than to modernise what was built 70 years ago.
    But the problem with mini mills is you can't make the highest grade steels. For that you need a blast furnace.
    Hmmmm: when I last met Nucor management, they were of the view that they covered more than 90% of the value spectrum. (Which is probably 99% of the volume.)

    And, frankly, Port Talbot doesn't make the highest quality steels either.
    Of course it doesn't which is part of the problem, but the issue of mini mills is gaining access to high grade scrap which isn't so freely available, hence why a lot of it is made from new in blast furnaces.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,097
    BigRich said:

    If Trump does win the nomination, then it could be the best result yet for the Libertarian Party. Which is some consolation.

    For those that might be interested, there is going to be the first ever televised Libertarian Party debate tonight on Fox.

    I thought Gary Johnson was 100% to win that gig, and 0% to subsequently get POTUS !
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,888
    Mr. Rich, but does the Libertarian Party have a shot at breaking the stranglehold the two big parties have?

    I don't mean imminently, I mean over the next few elections.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,097
    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no meaningful indigenous iron ore deposits, and have no economic coal mines, we are never going to be a major player on the world steel stage. China, believe it or not, is moving back to being a coal exporter.

    Of course, some of our energy policies have made things worse, but ultimately we have no competitive advantage in steel production. Political policy designed to make the uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
    You see now we're talking. I'm going on Dragon's Den to invite them to invest in a steel plant, if they say no I'll ask the govt.

    Basket case
    I'll bet you 50 quid that a new steel plant will be built in the UK in the next five years, if you like.

    It'll be a mini-mill, built next to a modern CCGT, based around an arc furnace, and using recycled steel as its feedstock, but it'll be built. Compared to Port Talbot, it'll need one-fifth the number of employees per tonne of rolled steel, and will have lower energy costs too.

    The problem with Port Talbot - and all big, old, integrated plants - is that it is cheaper to start anew than to modernise what was built 70 years ago.
    But the problem with mini mills is you can't make the highest grade steels. For that you need a blast furnace.
    Hmmmm: when I last met Nucor management, they were of the view that they covered more than 90% of the value spectrum. (Which is probably 99% of the volume.)

    And, frankly, Port Talbot doesn't make the highest quality steels either.
    Of course it doesn't which is part of the problem, but the issue of mini mills is gaining access to high grade scrap which isn't so freely available, hence why a lot of it is made from new in blast furnaces.
    Is 321 considered "high grade" ?
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no meaningful indigenous iron ore deposits, and have no economic coal mines, we are never going to be a major player on the world steel stage. China, believe it or not, is moving back to being a coal exporter.

    Of course, some of our energy policies have made things worse, but ultimately we have no competitive advantage in steel production. Political policy designed to make the uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
    You see now we're talking. I'm going on Dragon's Den to invite them to invest in a steel plant, if they say no I'll ask the govt.

    Basket case
    I'll bet you 50 quid that a new steel plant will be built in the UK in the next five years, if you like.

    It'll be a mini-mill, built next to a modern CCGT, based around an arc furnace, and using recycled steel as its feedstock, but it'll be built. Compared to Port Talbot, it'll need one-fifth the number of employees per tonne of rolled steel, and will have lower energy costs too.

    The problem with Port Talbot - and all big, old, integrated plants - is that it is cheaper to start anew than to modernise what was built 70 years ago.
    Why would I bet £50?

    Look, we can't make steel as cheap as others, asking the govt to subsidise it is bonkers (I'm not suggesting that is your stance).

    Corbyn and Nick Palmer seem to think nationalisation cures everything when actually its the opposite
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,051
    Pulpstar said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no meaningful indigenous iron ore deposits, and have no economic coal mines, we are never going to be a major player on the world steel stage. China, believe it or not, is moving back to being a coal exporter.

    Of course, some of our energy policies have made things worse, but ultimately we have no competitive advantage in steel production. Political policy designed to make the uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
    You see now we're talking. I'm going on Dragon's Den to invite them to invest in a steel plant, if they say no I'll ask the govt.

    Basket case
    I'll bet you 50 quid that a new steel plant will be built in the UK in the next five years, if you like.

    It'll be a mini-mill, built next to a modern CCGT, based around an arc furnace, and using recycled steel as its feedstock, but it'll be built. Compared to Port Talbot, it'll need one-fifth the number of employees per tonne of rolled steel, and will have lower energy costs too.

    The problem with Port Talbot - and all big, old, integrated plants - is that it is cheaper to start anew than to modernise what was built 70 years ago.
    But the problem with mini mills is you can't make the highest grade steels. For that you need a blast furnace.
    Hmmmm: when I last met Nucor management, they were of the view that they covered more than 90% of the value spectrum. (Which is probably 99% of the volume.)

    And, frankly, Port Talbot doesn't make the highest quality steels either.
    Of course it doesn't which is part of the problem, but the issue of mini mills is gaining access to high grade scrap which isn't so freely available, hence why a lot of it is made from new in blast furnaces.
    Is 321 considered "high grade" ?
    Do you mean stainless 321 ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,097
    edited April 2016
    Alanbrooke said:

    Do you mean stainless 321 ?

    Yep
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,051
    edited April 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Do you mean stainless 321 ?

    Yep
    That would be higher grade. stainless sells at about 3 to 5 times the price of mild steel due to the addition of other metals such as chrome. It's also more difficult to produce.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,690
    Totally O/T, but according to the local news a Lancashire woman is spending £20k....K....on "marrying" her chihauhau bitch to it's sweetheart".
    The "groom" lives in Essex; they met a dog show three years ago and have kept in touch through FaceTime and at dog-shows.
    Got to be one of the biggest April 1st wind-ups ever..
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,888
    A slightly random steel question: do they ever add vanadium?

    Unbeknownst to medieval chaps, vanadium impurities in Syrian (Damascus) steel was what gave it superior properties to standard steel.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,727
    OldKingCole said:

    Totally O/T, but according to the local news a Lancashire woman is spending £20k....K....on "marrying" her chihauhau bitch to it's sweetheart".
    The "groom" lives in Essex; they met a dog show three years ago and have kept in touch through FaceTime and at dog-shows.
    Got to be one of the biggest April 1st wind-ups ever..

    People from Essex, they are weirdos.

    I once watched a documentary about them. The Only Way Is Essex.

    Frightening.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,781
    blackburn63 said:



    Corbyn and Nick Palmer seem to think nationalisation cures everything when actually its the opposite

    I've not expressed an opinion! I'd need to know a lot more about the steel industry than I do to venture one. I merely observed that Corbyn's view seems closer to the public on this issue.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,727
    edited April 2016
    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,883
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    TSE, Chancellor Palpatine Osborne is evil!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,883
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Totally O/T, but according to the local news a Lancashire woman is spending £20k....K....on "marrying" her chihauhau bitch to it's sweetheart".
    The "groom" lives in Essex; they met a dog show three years ago and have kept in touch through FaceTime and at dog-shows.
    Got to be one of the biggest April 1st wind-ups ever..

    People from Essex, they are weirdos.

    I once watched a documentary about them. The Only Way Is Essex.

    Frightening.
    Or, while I volunteered on the heritage railway to North Weald and Ongar, "The Only Way is Epping" :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,883
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    "How the Virgin Islands could decide the GOP presidential nomination"

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/03/31/unbound-gop-delegates-picking-nominee/82430436/

    US Virgin Islands, presumably - not sure if the British Virgin Islands get a vote ;)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    It's customary to tip the staff when they've given particularly good service.
  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    Morris Dancer

    Vanadium is added to a few high value specialised steels, such as those used for tools. It is also sometimes used in concrete reinforcing steel, especially for use in buildings in earthquake zones. Bu bog standard steel contains no vanadium.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,690
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Totally O/T, but according to the local news a Lancashire woman is spending £20k....K....on "marrying" her chihauhau bitch to it's sweetheart".
    The "groom" lives in Essex; they met a dog show three years ago and have kept in touch through FaceTime and at dog-shows.
    Got to be one of the biggest April 1st wind-ups ever..

    People from Essex, they are weirdos.

    I once watched a documentary about them. The Only Way Is Essex.

    Frightening.
    It's a Lancashire woman who is apparentlyspending a small fortune or her bitch. Remember it's the "brides" family which pays for the wedding!
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Meanwhile, in safe space land:
    https://twitter.com/CDP1882/status/715897893186568192

    The SNP Think Police.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    I rather fancy Corby sees what the public's views are perceived to be and then adopts them...much like his predecessor..in both cases they were usually quite wrong
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Morris_Dancer said:

    A slightly random steel question: do they ever add vanadium?

    Unbeknownst to medieval chaps, vanadium impurities in Syrian (Damascus) steel was what gave it superior properties to standard steel.

    Thank you, Mr. Dancer, that is another five minutes of my life I will never get back. I couldn't remember Vanadium so I went off and googled it. As I result I now know that "German chemist Martin Henze discovered vanadium in the blood cells (or coelomic cells) of Ascidiacea (sea squirts) in 1911". Now, as penance for making me waste time and accepting yet another useless fact in to my memory (to join the millions already there) you are hereby condemned to watch the following video about the the periodic table ( and let that be a lesson to you):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGM-wSKFBpo

  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Rich, but does the Libertarian Party have a shot at breaking the stranglehold the two big parties have?

    I don't mean imminently, I mean over the next few elections.

    Good question, and although I find it hard to be fully objective on the matter, the answer is probably no. But to an extent that is not necessarily the point, the point it to give exposer to and advocate for liberty, 'free minds and free markets' the individual ect... so that the other party's are inflowanced, and there have been some successes, e.g. the legalisation of gay marriage and legalisation of Pot in some states. admittedly this is not a lot in a sea of new regulation and ballooning government deficits, and a rise in nativism.

    That sead if ever there was an opportunity, this year may be it, the libertarian party are going to have their debate tonight on TV, they have got on all 50 states ballots, (48 in 2012), they are tacking legal action (anti monopoly) to get in the Presidential debates, and perhaps most impotently, 'Trump' I could see a lot of former republican votes, being tempted by an ex republican governor, over Trump, and at least some young Sanders supporters, preferring to switch to somebody has been advocating for drug legalisation, over Hillary.

    I may be wrong, but I wonder if there are odds on the Libertarian candidate gating over 10% ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,015
    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no meaningful indigenous iron ore deposits, and have no economic coal mines, we are never going to be a major player on the world steel stage. China, believe it or not, is moving back to being a coal exporter.

    Of course, some of our energy policies have made things worse, but ultimately we have no competitive advantage in steel production. Political policy designed to make the uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
    You see now we're talking. I'm going on Dragon's Den to invite them to invest in a steel plant, if they say no I'll ask the govt.

    Basket case
    I'll bet you 50 quid that a new steel plant will be built in the UK in the next five years, if you like.

    It'll be a mini-mill, built next to a modern CCGT, based around an arc furnace, and using recycled steel as its feedstock, but it'll be built. Compared to Port Talbot, it'll need one-fifth the number of employees per tonne of rolled steel, and will have lower energy costs too.

    The problem with Port Talbot - and all big, old, integrated plants - is that it is cheaper to start anew than to modernise what was built 70 years ago.
    But the problem with mini mills is you can't make the highest grade steels. For that you need a blast furnace.
    Hmmmm: when I last met Nucor management, they were of the view that they covered more than 90% of the value spectrum. (Which is probably 99% of the volume.)

    And, frankly, Port Talbot doesn't make the highest quality steels either.
    Of course it doesn't which is part of the problem, but the issue of mini mills is gaining access to high grade scrap which isn't so freely available, hence why a lot of it is made from new in blast furnaces.
    Just before my dad retired, there was a large spike in the price of scrap - so much so one of his friendly dealers asked him if there were any demo contracts he could bring forwards. Allegedly the reason for the price rise was that there was a massive demand for scrap from China.

    He also had a friendly retired metallurgist who was able to detect special non-ferrous alloys and metals - very handy when he came across a job lot of tantalum. :)
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Oi, Mr. Dancer!

    Just found this video for you to watch as well, better I think that the Lehrer's effort and more up to date.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgVQKCcfwnU&ebc=ANyPxKquS-mgv9bFmD6OesNK6DYNYdWXi3NNQEeLDdtyB_V8CZWT-h_2cAiW2bxTukno6Hq5YiLtbN7FrFwiN_Gl-lpNhFTWfw

    If you watch both, excellent my revenge is complete.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,313
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,781
    richardDodd said:

    I rather fancy Corby sees what the public's views are perceived to be and then adopts them...much like his predecessor..in both cases they were usually quite wrong

    Do not be ridiculous. Seriously. I don't know a politician anywhere who is less prone to adapt his expressed views to fit with public opinion. Even some of his keenest supporters would like him to do it a little bit more.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    Depends how generous you are, obv
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,313
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    Depends how generous you are, obv
    A fiver for a Barony, perhaps a tenner for an Earldom (though sadly that doesn't confer membership of the Upper House these days)?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Pulpstar said:

    BigRich said:

    If Trump does win the nomination, then it could be the best result yet for the Libertarian Party. Which is some consolation.

    For those that might be interested, there is going to be the first ever televised Libertarian Party debate tonight on Fox.

    I thought Gary Johnson was 100% to win that gig, and 0% to subsequently get POTUS !
    Gary Johnson, is the presumptive favourite, by a long way, especially considering he won the nomination last time, but there have not been any poling that I know off, in the 4 states that have voted so far he is ahead of his closest rival Austin Peterson, by 2 to 1, but the votes are non binding. I suspect that John MacAfee has more name recognition than most in miner party's candidates.

    So far I have been watching the debates on YouTube, and I like all the candidates, Austin Peterson comes closest to my way of thinking, but Gary Johnson, probably cares more credibility with his list of life achievements, including being a governor for 2 terms of New Mexico.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited April 2016
    JohnO said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    Depends how generous you are, obv
    A fiver for a Barony, perhaps a tenner for an Earldom (though sadly that doesn't confer membership of the Upper House these days)?
    I think you must be working off an out-of-date price list.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,727
    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    I think our peerages are dependent on how much we donate and if I stop with the George is crap threads.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,313
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    JohnO said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    Depends how generous you are, obv
    A fiver for a Barony, perhaps a tenner for an Earldom (though sadly that doesn't confer membership of the Upper House these days)?
    I think you must be working off an out-of-date price list.
    Surely a discount for a viscount tough?
  • LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    Alistair said:

    SandyRentool said:

    How do Trump's favourability figures compare against Hillary's?

    Or Osborne's for that matter?

    Last tracker I saw was Trump -31. Hilary -13.

    Chasm.
    -15, and moving in the wrong direction, just like her other polling too. Terrible numbers with men and historically horribly lopsided gender numbers in the primaries, rare when she breaches 40%.

    Of course if favourables were the be all and end all then Carson and Sanders would be winning.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/04/01/delegate_hunter_manafort_brings_savvy_to_trump_camp_130167.html

    People not appreciating the importance of the Paul Manafort hire. If Trump comes up a little short he will do a deal, whether with Kasich or someone else.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,313
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    I think our peerages are dependent on how much we donate and if I stop with the George is crap threads.
    Anyway, we could do with some dosh FROM George and his mates to fight our all-out elections on May 5th. We have a fight on our hands to retain control. And if Elmbridge goes....well, forget about 2020.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited April 2016
    NP Then why does he read out letters from Joe Public at PMQs..what is that but bandwaggon jumping..and Miliband would jump on any waggon that passed his front door..
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Did it say how much extra we have to donate to get him to piss off?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,727
    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    I think our peerages are dependent on how much we donate and if I stop with the George is crap threads.
    Anyway, we could do with some dosh FROM George and his mates to fight our all-out elections on May 5th. We have a fight on our hands to retain control. And if Elmbridge goes....well, forget about 2020.
    He's sending all the money to the Northern Powerhouse.

    I'm so tempted to become Manchester's Directly Elected Mayor.

    So much power.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,914
    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/cameron-assumes-steel-workers-just-become-male-strippers-20160331107633
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    HurstLlama said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Did it say how much extra we have to donate to get him to piss off?
    Make it ritual harakiri as well and I will chip in a few quid.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,051
    JosiasJessop said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Apparently China has made more steel in the last 2 years than we have ever.

    What a basket case we are.

    Why does that surprise you?

    We are 1% of world population.
    China produces half the world's steel. (And mines half the world's iron ore.)

    As we have no methe uneconomic economic is doomed to failure.
    You see now we're talking. I'm going on Dragon's Den to invite them to invest in a steel plant, if they say no I'll ask the govt.

    Basket case
    I'll bet you 50 quid that a new steel plant will be built in the UK in the next five years, if you like.

    It'll be a mini-mill, built next to a myears ago.
    But the problem with mini mills is you can't make the highest grade steels. For that you need a blast furnace.
    Hmmmm: when I last met Nucor management, they were of the view that they covered more than 90% of the value spectrum. (Which is probably 99% of the volume.)

    And, frankly, Port Talbot doesn't make the highest quality steels either.
    Of course it doesn't which is part of the problem, but the issue of mini mills is gaining access to high grade scrap which isn't so freely available, hence why a lot of it is made from new in blast furnaces.
    Just before my dad retired, there was a large spike in the price of scrap - so much so one of his friendly dealers asked him if there were any demo contracts he could bring forwards. Allegedly the reason for the price rise was that there was a massive demand for scrap from China.

    He also had a friendly retired metallurgist who was able to detect special non-ferrous alloys and metals - very handy when he came across a job lot of tantalum. :)
    Steel prices went mad in 2003-2005 and practically doubled. Steel scrap followed; at one point it was hitting £250-300 a tonne for prime sorted scrap. Today I get about £65-70 a tonne which is about £100 tonne less than 2 years ago and reflects the steep falls in steel prices.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,888
    Mr. Hemmelig, thanks for that answer.

    Mr. Llama, I shall watch the video, but as I have, for reasons we needn't get into, memorised the 118 elements I doubt it'll prove a hardship :p
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,781
    richardDodd said:

    NP Then why does he read out letters from Joe Public at PMQs..what is that but bandwaggon jumping..and Miliband would jump on any waggon that passed his front door..

    Rofl. I invite you to find any of the people here who really, really dislike Corbyn and what he's doing (Southam Observer? Cyclefree?) to agree with you that he shamelessly changes his mind to pander to public opinion.

    The letters are people who agree with him, rather than the other way round. You could I suppose criticise him for not reading out letters from people who disagree with him - the ultimate masochism strategy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,591
    I'm calling bullshit on Trump being worried about getting 'savaged' by the Clintons. Bill Clinton is nothing in US power terms, George W Bush wiped his hand down Bill Clinton's shirt to get rid of poor people germs when they toured the Haiti wreckage together. Hillary is more of a tough old bird, but not to a degree of intimidating someone like Trump.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    I think our peerages are dependent on how much we donate and if I stop with the George is crap threads.
    Anyway, we could do with some dosh FROM George and his mates to fight our all-out elections on May 5th. We have a fight on our hands to retain control. And if Elmbridge goes....well, forget about 2020.
    That can't be right. Many have repeatedly told us that a donkey wearing a blue rosette could lead the Tories to an assured victory in 2020. Are you begging to differ?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I'm calling bullshit on Trump being worried about getting 'savaged' by the Clintons. Bill Clinton is nothing in US power terms, George W Bush wiped his hand down Bill Clinton's shirt to get rid of poor people germs when they toured the Haiti wreckage together. Hillary is more of a tough old bird, but not to a degree of intimidating someone like Trump.

    Soon to be jailbird more like.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I'm calling bullshit on Trump being worried about getting 'savaged' by the Clintons. Bill Clinton is nothing in US power terms, George W Bush wiped his hand down Bill Clinton's shirt to get rid of poor people germs when they toured the Haiti wreckage together. Hillary is more of a tough old bird, but not to a degree of intimidating someone like Trump.

    The source is Cheri Jacobus;

    http://twitchy.com/2016/01/27/gop-consultant-cheri-jacobus-unloads-on-trump-corey-lewandowski-and-fox-news/

    Ignore.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,591
    edited April 2016
    By the way, surely the only way to get a buyer for a priced out of the market steel company is to place an order for the overpriced steel in question. It's very socialistic, but there it is. My suggestion would be to build that bridge to Northern Ireland and tell the contracter to design for that steel specifically. At least there's an added economic benefit. Obviously someone more knowledgeable than I on engineering may tell me that won't work.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    watford30 said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    I think our peerages are dependent on how much we donate and if I stop with the George is crap threads.
    Anyway, we could do with some dosh FROM George and his mates to fight our all-out elections on May 5th. We have a fight on our hands to retain control. And if Elmbridge goes....well, forget about 2020.
    That can't be right. Many have repeatedly told us that a donkey wearing a blue rosette could lead the Tories to an assured victory in 2020. Are you begging to differ?
    It must be all those Lib Dem winning here bar charts putting the frighteners on.

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    NP...You do a lot of ROTFL..it reminds me of the time when you were at a private function where a fellow MP..a Conservative,..made an off colour joke in his speech ...you immediately alerted the press..I asked if you would have reported a Labour MP if he had done the same at a private function..and you said you would..Sorry NP.. On that day you lost all credibility and thankfully your seat..even the constituents saw through that one ..
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,313
    watford30 said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    I think our peerages are dependent on how much we donate and if I stop with the George is crap threads.
    Anyway, we could do with some dosh FROM George and his mates to fight our all-out elections on May 5th. We have a fight on our hands to retain control. And if Elmbridge goes....well, forget about 2020.
    That can't be right. Many have repeatedly told us that a donkey wearing a blue rosette could lead the Tories to an assured victory in 2020. Are you begging to differ?
    I guess the infinite subtlety of my humour can occasionally inadvertantly mislead. In truth the prospect of defeat in Esher and Walton (Elmbridge) is not unduly alarming.

    However, I am among the number that can envisage the Conservatives losing nationally in 2020, should the party revert to the good old days of nineties style self-immolation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,386
    edited April 2016
    There have been suggestions he didn't want the nomination this whole time. Personally I thought it was like Corbyn - he didn't think he would get as far as he did, but when it became a real possibility he committed to it and now really wants it.
    NickPalmer said:

    richardDodd said:

    I rather fancy Corby sees what the public's views are perceived to be and then adopts them...much like his predecessor..in both cases they were usually quite wrong

    Do not be ridiculous. Seriously. I don't know a politician anywhere who is less prone to adapt his expressed views to fit with public opinion. Even some of [Corbyn's] keenest supporters would like him to do it a little bit more.
    Well, quite. Honestly, his touted inflexibility (or consistency if one likes it) is one of the things I dislike about Corbyn, but while I also don't think he is as revolutionary as some of his supporters think in style, he is different, and not adjusting his views is part of that.

    Totally off topic, this story made me smile

    Skimmed milk can be described as an "imitation milk product", a Florida judge has ruled - unless vitamins are added - in a long-running dispute

    https://consumerist.com/2016/03/31/court-agrees-with-florida-skim-milk-is-imitation-milk-product-unless-you-add-vitamins/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,386
    watford30 said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    I think our peerages are dependent on how much we donate and if I stop with the George is crap threads.
    Anyway, we could do with some dosh FROM George and his mates to fight our all-out elections on May 5th. We have a fight on our hands to retain control. And if Elmbridge goes....well, forget about 2020.
    That can't be right. Many have repeatedly told us that a donkey wearing a blue rosette could lead the Tories to an assured victory in 2020. Are you begging to differ?
    I certainly am. Far too much complacency from the Tories.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    By the way, surely the only way to get a buyer for a priced out of the market steel company is to place an order for the overpriced steel in question. It's very socialistic, but there it is. My suggestion would be to build that bridge to Northern Ireland and tell the contracter to design for that steel specifically. At least there's an added economic benefit. Obviously someone more knowledgeable than I on engineering may tell me that won't work.

    Agree with you.

    I think the words 'socialism' and 'nationalise' have become so toxic that they aren't even in government rule books anymore (banks aside).

    Personally, I'd nationalise the steel industry and its losses. I think the government would find it liberating to do so. And it wouldn't necessarily have to be for ever.

    I'd fed up of uber capitalism and globalisation equating to the UK losing its whole manufacturing base, and I'm fed up of successive governments talking big and delivering bugger all.

    March of the makers, my arse! Osborne has hit the steel industry with even more green taxes and sucked up to the Chinese as they have devastated the market.

    Time to hit back in spectacular and surprising style, by nationalising the steel industry, putting forward a dramatic project built with UK steel (as you've suggested) and putting a big two fingers up to the globalisation vultures.

    It might not be entirely financially sensible in the short term, but may well be socially and culturally magnificent in the long term.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,214
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    By the way, surely the only way to get a buyer for a priced out of the market steel company is to place an order for the overpriced steel in question. It's very socialistic, but there it is. My suggestion would be to build that bridge to Northern Ireland and tell the contracter to design for that steel specifically. At least there's an added economic benefit. Obviously someone more knowledgeable than I on engineering may tell me that won't work.

    I probably shouldn't do this but what the hell. I have heard a whisper that the rail for HS2 has already been purchased. From China.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,690
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    JohnO said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    JohnO said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just received an email from Osborne asking for me for a donation for him to continue his brilliant stewardship of the economy.

    Do you think that if it's just you and I who have received that very personal message (and I'm sure it is), then, well, could it just be, dare we hope, that our peerages may soon be next?
    Depends how generous you are, obv
    A fiver for a Barony, perhaps a tenner for an Earldom (though sadly that doesn't confer membership of the Upper House these days)?
    I think you must be working off an out-of-date price list.
    ???Lloyd George knew my (?your) father?
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