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Punters increasingly think Trump will be the WH2024 GOP nominee – politicalbetting.com

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  • Foxy said:

    Cracking Messi goal. Class from PSG.

    PSG, City and Liverpool are in a different class to the rest
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Time to tap into the PB Brains Trust. I probably have my first ever trip to Baku coming up in November - 2 weeks. Anything on the recommended activity/places to visit must do list?

    Baku is brilliant

    Check out the Zoroastrian fire-shrines, the burning hill, the amazing Soviet oil industry dereliction. Go drinking, it has a fab atmos. The food is intriguing and the Iran-Slav mixed race women often stunning

    The markets were also great when I was there, but this is well over a decade ago, and oil money has changed it rapidly, I have been told

    With two weeks you have the chance to explore. Azerbaijan is tremendously weird. The higher you get into the hills and the countryside, the better and stranger it is. Check the mad Jewish towns surviving from the 5th century BC. Entire villages in the Caucasus where, suddenly, everyone is ginger

    Superb place. Have fun
    Thanks, Leon. I intend to try. My first trip since Dec 2019. Need to shake off that cabin fever.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    I like Ed Miliband but he allowed the Tories that majority in 2015 when his brother David would have done much better . From there with the majority Cameron called his stupid referendum and the rest is history .

    I cannot blame him for not seeing that his brother 'would have done much better'. Narrowly, under their system, the party disagreed. If he thought he would do better he shouldn't have stood aside to let his brother have his turn.
    We can only guess the psycho drama behind it. Both brothers seem to have an exaggerated view of their own abilities even for politicians. I am no fan of either but David would probably have prevented Cameron getting a majority so no Brexit referendum. To add to the charge sheet Ed was leader when the disastrous LP voting changes were introduced.
    With no referendum in 2016 we might well be living under a Tory-Ukip coalition right now.
    I think with a different Labour leader in 2016, Remain would have won. Corbyn was pathetic in the campaign, and any of the alternatives would have been better.
    I thought this alternative history game was if David took over in 2010 not Ed?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686

    Foxy said:

    Cracking Messi goal. Class from PSG.

    PSG, City and Liverpool are in a different class to the rest
    Tonight is almost certainly the most expensive football match in history. A billion quid in each team perhaps.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748
    Farooq said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    I like Ed Miliband but he allowed the Tories that majority in 2015 when his brother David would have done much better . From there with the majority Cameron called his stupid referendum and the rest is history .

    I cannot blame him for not seeing that his brother 'would have done much better'. Narrowly, under their system, the party disagreed. If he thought he would do better he shouldn't have stood aside to let his brother have his turn.
    We can only guess the psycho drama behind it. Both brothers seem to have an exaggerated view of their own abilities even for politicians. I am no fan of either but David would probably have prevented Cameron getting a majority so no Brexit referendum. To add to the charge sheet Ed was leader when the disastrous LP voting changes were introduced.
    With no referendum in 2016 we might well be living under a Tory-Ukip coalition right now.
    We are.
    Chortle. Yes I suppose so.

    I just remembered Philip Hammond. Had forgotten about him. You see, things have been worse!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,094
    edited September 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    I know this was posted this morning



    and here we are...

    They've called in the army. https://twitter.com/bealejonathan/status/1442902971818262530

    Only 23% blame HMG

    Whereas 22% the public and 47% the media which must hurt you to the core in view of your constant tweeting
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Tres said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic, if Trump wants the nomination, he will get it and it is increasingly clear he does. Also, he is playing a smart game by keeping relatively quiet. That might not be a popular idea on here given the consensus that Trump is a stupid buffoon but he is a lot smarter than many give him credit for.

    There was also a good piece by Conrad Black today, which won’t please many on here but the link is below. With regards to his comments on the 2020 election, they will make many here choke but, quite frankly, that’s not important - this is what the GOP is thinking about what happened in November:

    https://amgreatness.com/2021/09/27/democrats-repeat-the-mistakes-of-2016/

    Final point. I’m noticing a worrying trend on here that, if Trump does run again in 2024, the only way he will win is by fraud / illegitimate means ie his election will be illegitimate. Ironically, there is a fair bit of overlap between those who are the strongest in pushing this view and those who are most shrill about saying how the GOP’s conduct remains the biggest threat to American democracy. It doesn’t seem to occur to many on here that Trump may win because people will be sick of Biden’s incompetence but it is worrying that we are starting to see the building blocks being out in place to claim any Trump 2024 win is, by default, illegitimate.

    "I’m noticing a worrying trend on here that, if Trump does run again in 2024, the only way he will win is by fraud / illegitimate means"

    Really?

    Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen a single comment along those lines.

    Presumably you have plenty of examples.
    I think you have just had a few examples post your question with one poster admirably admitting his comments could be interpreted as such. And that Trump is a cheat. Plus another one who said that Republican cheating had been going on for years. It’s clear there will be a good solid group - as post-2016 - who would take the view that Trump could not have won legitimately and therefore must have cheated
    Anyone who plays golf knows that Trump is a cheat.
    Yes, and cheating at golf is a massive red flag. Hence the infamous scene from Goldfinger.

    (Filmed at Stoke Poges GC - they are quite proud of it there)

    Trump does bear a resemblance.
    Stoke Poges was the site of the most perfectly timed, funniest double entendres in my entire life. There was a gong at the entrance to one of the Corporate offices there, and as we ambled out one evening myself and a colleague were spotting a middle aged receptionist bending over picking something up, whilst a second colleague was eying the gong

    And the second colleague then, anticipating our return the next day, uttered, in childlike innocence, the line " I wouldn't mind banging that in the morning."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686
    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    I like Ed Miliband but he allowed the Tories that majority in 2015 when his brother David would have done much better . From there with the majority Cameron called his stupid referendum and the rest is history .

    I cannot blame him for not seeing that his brother 'would have done much better'. Narrowly, under their system, the party disagreed. If he thought he would do better he shouldn't have stood aside to let his brother have his turn.
    We can only guess the psycho drama behind it. Both brothers seem to have an exaggerated view of their own abilities even for politicians. I am no fan of either but David would probably have prevented Cameron getting a majority so no Brexit referendum. To add to the charge sheet Ed was leader when the disastrous LP voting changes were introduced.
    With no referendum in 2016 we might well be living under a Tory-Ukip coalition right now.
    I think with a different Labour leader in 2016, Remain would have won. Corbyn was pathetic in the campaign, and any of the alternatives would have been better.
    I thought this alternative history game was if David took over in 2010 not Ed?
    Better still if it were Balls.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,842
    Going to Greece tomorrow, can't fucking wait. Eight of us are going to Crete and we've booked a gigantic beach villa and private chef for 5 out of the 10 days.

    It's probably the last time all 8 of us will be able to get away as a big group of mates+WAGs going on holiday together so we're going all out with the villa and chef.

    It's been too long and we have up our freedoms far too easily. I do feel as though we need a "never again" moment. If there's another virus that targets old people then young people can't be asked to sacrifice two of the best years of their lives for it.
  • interesting thread:


    Torsten Bell
    @TorstenBell
    Main Labour conference take-away: we now know what the next election is going to be about

    https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1442946364669788161
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    I like Ed Miliband but he allowed the Tories that majority in 2015 when his brother David would have done much better . From there with the majority Cameron called his stupid referendum and the rest is history .

    I cannot blame him for not seeing that his brother 'would have done much better'. Narrowly, under their system, the party disagreed. If he thought he would do better he shouldn't have stood aside to let his brother have his turn.
    We can only guess the psycho drama behind it. Both brothers seem to have an exaggerated view of their own abilities even for politicians. I am no fan of either but David would probably have prevented Cameron getting a majority so no Brexit referendum. To add to the charge sheet Ed was leader when the disastrous LP voting changes were introduced.
    With no referendum in 2016 we might well be living under a Tory-Ukip coalition right now.
    I think with a different Labour leader in 2016, Remain would have won. Corbyn was pathetic in the campaign, and any of the alternatives would have been better.
    If remain won and there was a different labour leader, we would have been stuck with a bland neoliberal government trying to restart the world order that existed prior to 2007. Eventually it would fail and something else would come in its wake.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Time to tap into the PB Brains Trust. I probably have my first ever trip to Baku coming up in November - 2 weeks. Anything on the recommended activity/places to visit must do list?

    Baku is brilliant

    Check out the Zoroastrian fire-shrines, the burning hill, the amazing Soviet oil industry dereliction. Go drinking, it has a fab atmos. The food is intriguing and the Iran-Slav mixed race women often stunning

    The markets were also great when I was there, but this is well over a decade ago, and oil money has changed it rapidly, I have been told

    With two weeks you have the chance to explore. Azerbaijan is tremendously weird. The higher you get into the hills and the countryside, the better and stranger it is. Check the mad Jewish towns surviving from the 5th century BC. Entire villages in the Caucasus where, suddenly, everyone is ginger

    Superb place. Have fun
    Thanks, Leon. I intend to try. My first trip since Dec 2019. Need to shake off that cabin fever.
    In my experience the first foreign trip after Covid is weird, and maybe not completely great. Too nervy. The second and third are fantastic, as the nerves have gone and you are FREEEEEEEE. The sensation of escape is wonderful

    Friends of mine have said the exact same

    However you have a good 2 weeks in Baku which is time to shake off the cobwebs and really enjoy yourself. And Baku is sufficiently mad and strange to distract anyone
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Interesting programme about Kim Philby on BBC4 atm.
  • Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    I like Ed Miliband but he allowed the Tories that majority in 2015 when his brother David would have done much better . From there with the majority Cameron called his stupid referendum and the rest is history .

    I cannot blame him for not seeing that his brother 'would have done much better'. Narrowly, under their system, the party disagreed. If he thought he would do better he shouldn't have stood aside to let his brother have his turn.
    We can only guess the psycho drama behind it. Both brothers seem to have an exaggerated view of their own abilities even for politicians. I am no fan of either but David would probably have prevented Cameron getting a majority so no Brexit referendum. To add to the charge sheet Ed was leader when the disastrous LP voting changes were introduced.
    David is the better media performer, but Ed has grown on me over the years and he is an astute judge of the problems of the country.
    So Ed should have been one of the key thinkers in a David M Cabinet. Not running for leader.

  • Councillor Nick Small‏
    @CllrNickSmall
    ·
    2m
    Clause 1 of the Labour Party - to win elections to bring about change.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    I like Ed Miliband but he allowed the Tories that majority in 2015 when his brother David would have done much better . From there with the majority Cameron called his stupid referendum and the rest is history .

    I cannot blame him for not seeing that his brother 'would have done much better'. Narrowly, under their system, the party disagreed. If he thought he would do better he shouldn't have stood aside to let his brother have his turn.
    We can only guess the psycho drama behind it. Both brothers seem to have an exaggerated view of their own abilities even for politicians. I am no fan of either but David would probably have prevented Cameron getting a majority so no Brexit referendum. To add to the charge sheet Ed was leader when the disastrous LP voting changes were introduced.
    With no referendum in 2016 we might well be living under a Tory-Ukip coalition right now.
    I think with a different Labour leader in 2016, Remain would have won. Corbyn was pathetic in the campaign, and any of the alternatives would have been better.
    I thought this alternative history game was if David took over in 2010 not Ed?
    Better still if it were Balls.
    I come to the conclusion that Ed Balls was a good administrator but a poor politician. He put the heebie jeebies in me when he was Shadow Chancellor but now comes across as a good bloke with his head screwed on. A total giant versus what’s on offer from the red team now.
  • nico679 said:

    I like Ed Miliband but he allowed the Tories that majority in 2015 when his brother David would have done much better . From there with the majority Cameron called his stupid referendum and the rest is history .

    You know what was really stupid, the EU and Junckers not seeing the danger and refusing to negotiate a sensible compromise with Cameron

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

  • Tom Harwood
    @tomhfh
    Big cheers for Angela Rayner at the LGBT+ Labour fringe. She ends by saying “women’s rights are not in conflict with trans rights, your struggle is our struggle”.

    ===


    Er, yes they are according to leading feminists.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559

    Evening all. As someone some of us remember used to say.

    Topped up with petrol this evening prior to a long drive Thursday.
    No queue, no limit of what I could buy.

    What a mess the USA is in. I suspect Trump won't be able to run again, either as a result of health problems, or legal ones

    Come to that, what a mess UK is in.

    Of the three petrol stations within a few miles of me, two were out of fuel today.

    I did a 10-mile run in Peterborough today, whilst Mrs J's car was having its service and MOT.
    A few random thoughts:
    *) A petrol station I passed had all fuel and no queues. £30 limit on transactions.
    *) Peterborough isn't the prettiest places, but I managed to run three miles south to the centre on good roadside cycle paths, with no on-level road crossings. Impressive.
    *) Six or seven men drinking from cans of lager in various places. All alone. Quite a sad sight in the early afternoon.
    *) On the way back, I ran through an underpass where three youths on bikes with hoods up were smoking something a little heavy on the nose. A young woman cycled past me, saw the youths, stopped, turned around, and headed back past me.

    The latter was particularly poignant. I have little fear in running or walking anywhere - I feel as though I face more danger from traffic than I do people. Yet I know female friends who are fearful of being out and about alone. It's easy for me, as a man, to forget that ...
    Men are far more likely to be attacked than women. Of 96 murders in London so far this year, 83 of the victims have been men/boys. You wouldn't guess that from the news coverage. (Saying that the perpetrators were also men doesn't make it any better if you're one of the victims as far as I can see).
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    With respect to the thread header Florida's 7-day moving average of Covid deaths hit 364, the UK equivalent of 1200 on the 2nd of September. A truly astonishing achievement with a vaccine freely available to all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    MaxPB said:

    Going to Greece tomorrow, can't fucking wait. Eight of us are going to Crete and we've booked a gigantic beach villa and private chef for 5 out of the 10 days.

    It's probably the last time all 8 of us will be able to get away as a big group of mates+WAGs going on holiday together so we're going all out with the villa and chef.

    It's been too long and we have up our freedoms far too easily. I do feel as though we need a "never again" moment. If there's another virus that targets old people then young people can't be asked to sacrifice two of the best years of their lives for it.

    Have a good time but some young people were also severely affected by Covid, including a few who died.

    It is the vaccinations which have allowed us our freedoms again for all ages
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686
    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    I like Ed Miliband but he allowed the Tories that majority in 2015 when his brother David would have done much better . From there with the majority Cameron called his stupid referendum and the rest is history .

    I cannot blame him for not seeing that his brother 'would have done much better'. Narrowly, under their system, the party disagreed. If he thought he would do better he shouldn't have stood aside to let his brother have his turn.
    We can only guess the psycho drama behind it. Both brothers seem to have an exaggerated view of their own abilities even for politicians. I am no fan of either but David would probably have prevented Cameron getting a majority so no Brexit referendum. To add to the charge sheet Ed was leader when the disastrous LP voting changes were introduced.
    With no referendum in 2016 we might well be living under a Tory-Ukip coalition right now.
    I think with a different Labour leader in 2016, Remain would have won. Corbyn was pathetic in the campaign, and any of the alternatives would have been better.
    I thought this alternative history game was if David took over in 2010 not Ed?
    Better still if it were Balls.
    I come to the conclusion that Ed Balls was a good administrator but a poor politician. He put the heebie jeebies in me when he was Shadow Chancellor but now comes across as a good bloke with his head screwed on. A total giant versus what’s on offer from the red team now.
    I think though that his Portillo moment made him far more human and likeable.

    The opposite of Trumps reaction to electoral rejection.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748

    nico679 said:

    I like Ed Miliband but he allowed the Tories that majority in 2015 when his brother David would have done much better . From there with the majority Cameron called his stupid referendum and the rest is history .

    You know what was really stupid, the EU and Junckers not seeing the danger and refusing to negotiate a sensible compromise with Cameron

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit
    What was also stupid was Cameron playing bluff with the EU with his hand on full display. He’d still be PM now if he’d wanted to be, if he’d gone full throttle for Brexit when the renegotiation failed. Or even if he stood above the referendum debate and vowed to enact whatever the result.
  • Burnham...



  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,994
    I: Petrol rage takes hold with queues to last days #TomorrowsPapetsToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1442956707357859840/photo/1
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cracking Messi goal. Class from PSG.

    PSG, City and Liverpool are in a different class to the rest
    Tonight is almost certainly the most expensive football match in history. A billion quid in each team perhaps.
    It's obscene
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,994
    German TV news editorial on UK fuel shortages: “The British government and media are looking for the causes elsewhere. Just not at their own door.” https://twitter.com/tagesthemen/status/1442942190225969152
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Going to Greece tomorrow, can't fucking wait. Eight of us are going to Crete and we've booked a gigantic beach villa and private chef for 5 out of the 10 days.

    It's probably the last time all 8 of us will be able to get away as a big group of mates+WAGs going on holiday together so we're going all out with the villa and chef.

    It's been too long and we have up our freedoms far too easily. I do feel as though we need a "never again" moment. If there's another virus that targets old people then young people can't be asked to sacrifice two of the best years of their lives for it.

    Have a good time but some young people were also severely affected by Covid, including a few who died.

    It is the vaccinations which have allowed us our freedoms again for all ages
    Next time we have a quarantine, it ought to be the medically vulnerable who are subject to it, not the healthy.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686
    Sheriff 2, Real Madrid 1 !

    A team that doesn't even come from a real country.
  • Alistair said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1442923393288847361

    "We never would have lost two elections in a row"

    2017 was the biggest increase in vote for Labour since WW2

    2019 was about Labour's stupid 2nd referendum policy courtesy of SKS.

    2023/4 is going to be a massive disappointment for you CHB.
    It was Ed Miliband in 2015 (not as left wing as Corbyn) who wrecked Labour.
    He lost Scotland, and took enough votes off the LDs in the LD/Con marginals to give the Cons their majority.
    I don't think Miliband is really responsible for Scotland. The SNP passed Labour back in 2006 (polling). 2010 was the anomaly, with Labour clinging to its vote in the FPTP system. The other Scotland-wide votes, in 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019, and 2021 all saw the SNP finish with the most votes.
    Yes, I think it was having Brown as PM that meant Labour held Scotland in 2010.

    It was SLAB campaigning with the Tories in 2014 that put a bucket full of nails in their coffin.
    I honestly think 2014 is overplayed. It's an easy story to reach for, but the rot was set in before then. Any understanding of what went wrong for Labour in Scotland needs to take 2011 into account.
    So yes, you're right, nails in the coffin. But why was Labour in the coffin in the first place?
    The Better Together campaign was (from a party political point of view) an enormous and total disaster for Scottish Labour. They actively campaigned against about 40% of their voting base and repeatedly insulted them and called the Nazis.
    Marvellous how SLab have learned lessons and moved on from this.
  • MaxPB said:

    Going to Greece tomorrow, can't fucking wait. Eight of us are going to Crete and we've booked a gigantic beach villa and private chef for 5 out of the 10 days.

    It's probably the last time all 8 of us will be able to get away as a big group of mates+WAGs going on holiday together so we're going all out with the villa and chef.

    It's been too long and we have up our freedoms far too easily. I do feel as though we need a "never again" moment. If there's another virus that targets old people then young people can't be asked to sacrifice two of the best years of their lives for it.

    I thought Crete has just had an earthquake

    Keep safe
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    Burnham...

    What an odd photo of them both. Gods knows what Starmer is doing to him.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,994

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,528
    Leon said:



    Suddenly and belatedly more aware of this issue, I was walking down the Regent's Canal towpath in Camden about 3 hours ago, before dusk, and two blonde young female joggers came past a large group of quite druggy young men (I'm not libelling them, the guys were clearly dealing, and rolling big joints etc)

    One of the guys leered and said "you look nice in your runners, darling" in a faintly aggressive but also friendly-sexual way - ie to my mind, if the girl was in the right mood, she could have seen it merely as a verbal wolf-whistle, and a compliment to her good looks

    But as I walked on I imagined what that interaction might feel like later, if the girl was, say, alone, jogging, at night - it would surely feel deeply threatening, and nothing else. A large group of young men, making overtly sexual remarks? By a canal?

    Hmm. Men just never get this, or very rarely, anyway

    Agreed. If strangers encounter each other, they have no way of knowing what's scary to the other, even if they are sure in their own minds that they don't mean any harm.

    A West Indian friend living in a village near here says he crosses the road if he sees an elderly single woman coming towards him, because "she might feel that a big black guy was a threat, and it's no big deal to cross the road, so why risk worrying her?" Shouldn't he just smile amiably? No, he feels - she might think that was threatening too.

    Life is difficult if you want to be sure not to worry anyone, isn't it? But within reason, we do need to try.
  • Scott_xP said:

    German TV news editorial on UK fuel shortages: “The British government and media are looking for the causes elsewhere. Just not at their own door.” https://twitter.com/tagesthemen/status/1442942190225969152

    And 69% disagree
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Scott_xP said:

    German TV news editorial on UK fuel shortages: “The British government and media are looking for the causes elsewhere. Just not at their own door.” https://twitter.com/tagesthemen/status/1442942190225969152

    Totally unique behaviour from a government, I am sure.
  • Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cracking Messi goal. Class from PSG.

    PSG, City and Liverpool are in a different class to the rest
    Tonight is almost certainly the most expensive football match in history. A billion quid in each team perhaps.
    It's obscene
    Why is it?
    2 billion pounds is not obscene for 22 footballers

    Well it's a view
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686

    Leon said:



    Suddenly and belatedly more aware of this issue, I was walking down the Regent's Canal towpath in Camden about 3 hours ago, before dusk, and two blonde young female joggers came past a large group of quite druggy young men (I'm not libelling them, the guys were clearly dealing, and rolling big joints etc)

    One of the guys leered and said "you look nice in your runners, darling" in a faintly aggressive but also friendly-sexual way - ie to my mind, if the girl was in the right mood, she could have seen it merely as a verbal wolf-whistle, and a compliment to her good looks

    But as I walked on I imagined what that interaction might feel like later, if the girl was, say, alone, jogging, at night - it would surely feel deeply threatening, and nothing else. A large group of young men, making overtly sexual remarks? By a canal?

    Hmm. Men just never get this, or very rarely, anyway

    Agreed. If strangers encounter each other, they have no way of knowing what's scary to the other, even if they are sure in their own minds that they don't mean any harm.

    A West Indian friend living in a village near here says he crosses the road if he sees an elderly single woman coming towards him, because "she might feel that a big black guy was a threat, and it's no big deal to cross the road, so why risk worrying her?" Shouldn't he just smile amiably? No, he feels - she might think that was threatening too.

    Life is difficult if you want to be sure not to worry anyone, isn't it? But within reason, we do need to try.
    Yes, but the low level harassment that Leon describes is very common. What purpose was there except intimidation? Did he really expect the jogger to stop and ask him out on a date?
  • Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cracking Messi goal. Class from PSG.

    PSG, City and Liverpool are in a different class to the rest
    Tonight is almost certainly the most expensive football match in history. A billion quid in each team perhaps.
    It's obscene
    Why is it?
    2 billion pounds is not obscene for 22 footballers

    Well it's a view
    No, I didn't offer a view because I don't have one.
    Just interested in yours.
    2 billion could fund a huge number of HGV drivers!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cracking Messi goal. Class from PSG.

    PSG, City and Liverpool are in a different class to the rest
    Tonight is almost certainly the most expensive football match in history. A billion quid in each team perhaps.
    It's obscene
    Why is it?
    2 billion pounds is not obscene for 22 footballers

    Well it's a view
    Not really. These are exceptional athletes and providing great entertainment that harms no one.

    Footballers are like anyone else in show business, worth what the customers will pay for.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Time to tap into the PB Brains Trust. I probably have my first ever trip to Baku coming up in November - 2 weeks. Anything on the recommended activity/places to visit must do list?

    Baku is brilliant

    Check out the Zoroastrian fire-shrines, the burning hill, the amazing Soviet oil industry dereliction. Go drinking, it has a fab atmos. The food is intriguing and the Iran-Slav mixed race women often stunning

    The markets were also great when I was there, but this is well over a decade ago, and oil money has changed it rapidly, I have been told

    With two weeks you have the chance to explore. Azerbaijan is tremendously weird. The higher you get into the hills and the countryside, the better and stranger it is. Check the mad Jewish towns surviving from the 5th century BC. Entire villages in the Caucasus where, suddenly, everyone is ginger

    Superb place. Have fun
    Thanks, Leon. I intend to try. My first trip since Dec 2019. Need to shake off that cabin fever.
    In my experience the first foreign trip after Covid is weird, and maybe not completely great. Too nervy. The second and third are fantastic, as the nerves have gone and you are FREEEEEEEE. The sensation of escape is wonderful

    Friends of mine have said the exact same

    However you have a good 2 weeks in Baku which is time to shake off the cobwebs and really enjoy yourself. And Baku is sufficiently mad and strange to distract anyone
    The hilarious thing is that, because this work is ultimately funded by a US government department, I have to take a 6 hour online course and be certified on knowing how to travel internationally!! Only being doing the international travel thing since 1959. They must think that I am a slow learner.

    Almost as idiotic as Notre Dame requiring me to pass English as a Foreign Language exam to go do an MBA there. Needless to say, I told ND to FO and went to INSEAD instead, who did not need me to prove that I spoke French. But this is a paying gig to a fascinating country I've never visited, so I'll swallow my scorn.
  • kle4 said:

    Burnham...

    What an odd photo of them both. Gods knows what Starmer is doing to him.
    Serving a writ?

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Evening all. As someone some of us remember used to say.

    Topped up with petrol this evening prior to a long drive Thursday.
    No queue, no limit of what I could buy.

    What a mess the USA is in. I suspect Trump won't be able to run again, either as a result of health problems, or legal ones

    Come to that, what a mess UK is in.

    Of the three petrol stations within a few miles of me, two were out of fuel today.

    I did a 10-mile run in Peterborough today, whilst Mrs J's car was having its service and MOT.
    A few random thoughts:
    *) A petrol station I passed had all fuel and no queues. £30 limit on transactions.
    *) Peterborough isn't the prettiest places, but I managed to run three miles south to the centre on good roadside cycle paths, with no on-level road crossings. Impressive.
    *) Six or seven men drinking from cans of lager in various places. All alone. Quite a sad sight in the early afternoon.
    *) On the way back, I ran through an underpass where three youths on bikes with hoods up were smoking something a little heavy on the nose. A young woman cycled past me, saw the youths, stopped, turned around, and headed back past me.

    The latter was particularly poignant. I have little fear in running or walking anywhere - I feel as though I face more danger from traffic than I do people. Yet I know female friends who are fearful of being out and about alone. It's easy for me, as a man, to forget that ...
    There was a good thread on this on Twitter. Men just don't realise how scary it is for women to run or jog or walk alone at night, even in fairly safe neighbourhoods.

    I confess I seldom consider it. I would walk anywhere in London alone, at any time. Sure there are sketchier places where I would be watchful, and cross the road maybe, and certainly not get a flashy iPhone out to call and browse, but yeah I would walk anywhere, at any time, in London, without too much worry

    For some women they just won't go out alone after dark. That's it

    The people who get angry about what to call people with or without penises / vaginas or who can use which public convenience would be better getting exercised about this inequality.
    Yes indeed. And to my shame I had never properly considered it. Grown women scared to go out after dark?

    I guess I generally know younger women who are more confident? - but also more likely to be attacked. Hmm

    And I have usually lived in nicer neighborhoods, but still London is London, a massive world city, with a hint of edginess, everywhere

    For once, the term "privilege" is justified. Male privilege means you can mostly walk out of the door at night, for a walk or a jog or some late night shopping, and feel pretty fine. Many women simply cannot do that, alone, or feel too scared to do it, either way. When you realise this - as a man - it is quite a shock

    What took you so long? I pointed this out in March - see here: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/14/one-womans-perspective/.

    I pointed it out on earlier occasions - when German women were being attacked during NY's Eve celebrations. It is (dare I say it) one of the reasons women, some of them, anyway, value female only spaces - so they don't have to make any sort of assessment about whether a man is being simply friendly or something worse.

    It is something all women learn to take account of from a young age.

    Would that it were different.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,161
    edited September 2021
    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I suspect that opinion polls are going to start reflecting that in a very big way in the party polling soon, as well. Labour are having a difficult time of it too, however. I'm beginning to get a strong feeling we might see some of the kind of polling from two or three years ago, with both main parties peforming poorly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:



    Suddenly and belatedly more aware of this issue, I was walking down the Regent's Canal towpath in Camden about 3 hours ago, before dusk, and two blonde young female joggers came past a large group of quite druggy young men (I'm not libelling them, the guys were clearly dealing, and rolling big joints etc)

    One of the guys leered and said "you look nice in your runners, darling" in a faintly aggressive but also friendly-sexual way - ie to my mind, if the girl was in the right mood, she could have seen it merely as a verbal wolf-whistle, and a compliment to her good looks

    But as I walked on I imagined what that interaction might feel like later, if the girl was, say, alone, jogging, at night - it would surely feel deeply threatening, and nothing else. A large group of young men, making overtly sexual remarks? By a canal?

    Hmm. Men just never get this, or very rarely, anyway

    Agreed. If strangers encounter each other, they have no way of knowing what's scary to the other, even if they are sure in their own minds that they don't mean any harm.

    A West Indian friend living in a village near here says he crosses the road if he sees an elderly single woman coming towards him, because "she might feel that a big black guy was a threat, and it's no big deal to cross the road, so why risk worrying her?" Shouldn't he just smile amiably? No, he feels - she might think that was threatening too.

    Life is difficult if you want to be sure not to worry anyone, isn't it? But within reason, we do need to try.
    Yes, but the low level harassment that Leon describes is very common. What purpose was there except intimidation? Did he really expect the jogger to stop and ask him out on a date?
    I believe Nick is agreeing with you

    I don't think it is acceptable for men to make sexually suggestive remarks to women in the street, especially if they are in a big group and the girl is alone or with just one friend. It is obviously quite menacing, even if "well meant"

    But nor do we want a generation of neutered men too scared to approach a woman ever.

    In a bar, it is fine. Do it in a bar. The girl can always walk out and she is also surrounded by people so will feel safer
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
  • moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    I like Ed Miliband but he allowed the Tories that majority in 2015 when his brother David would have done much better . From there with the majority Cameron called his stupid referendum and the rest is history .

    I cannot blame him for not seeing that his brother 'would have done much better'. Narrowly, under their system, the party disagreed. If he thought he would do better he shouldn't have stood aside to let his brother have his turn.
    We can only guess the psycho drama behind it. Both brothers seem to have an exaggerated view of their own abilities even for politicians. I am no fan of either but David would probably have prevented Cameron getting a majority so no Brexit referendum. To add to the charge sheet Ed was leader when the disastrous LP voting changes were introduced.
    With no referendum in 2016 we might well be living under a Tory-Ukip coalition right now.
    I think with a different Labour leader in 2016, Remain would have won. Corbyn was pathetic in the campaign, and any of the alternatives would have been better.
    I thought this alternative history game was if David took over in 2010 not Ed?
    Right now, I want an alt history where the egos of Boris and Jo Johnson were more equally balanced, so that both parties were dealing with fraternal psychodramas. Or better still, where Rachel's career in the Lib Dems took off.

    In my dreams, I want the world to burn properly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Evening all. As someone some of us remember used to say.

    Topped up with petrol this evening prior to a long drive Thursday.
    No queue, no limit of what I could buy.

    What a mess the USA is in. I suspect Trump won't be able to run again, either as a result of health problems, or legal ones

    Come to that, what a mess UK is in.

    Of the three petrol stations within a few miles of me, two were out of fuel today.

    I did a 10-mile run in Peterborough today, whilst Mrs J's car was having its service and MOT.
    A few random thoughts:
    *) A petrol station I passed had all fuel and no queues. £30 limit on transactions.
    *) Peterborough isn't the prettiest places, but I managed to run three miles south to the centre on good roadside cycle paths, with no on-level road crossings. Impressive.
    *) Six or seven men drinking from cans of lager in various places. All alone. Quite a sad sight in the early afternoon.
    *) On the way back, I ran through an underpass where three youths on bikes with hoods up were smoking something a little heavy on the nose. A young woman cycled past me, saw the youths, stopped, turned around, and headed back past me.

    The latter was particularly poignant. I have little fear in running or walking anywhere - I feel as though I face more danger from traffic than I do people. Yet I know female friends who are fearful of being out and about alone. It's easy for me, as a man, to forget that ...
    There was a good thread on this on Twitter. Men just don't realise how scary it is for women to run or jog or walk alone at night, even in fairly safe neighbourhoods.

    I confess I seldom consider it. I would walk anywhere in London alone, at any time. Sure there are sketchier places where I would be watchful, and cross the road maybe, and certainly not get a flashy iPhone out to call and browse, but yeah I would walk anywhere, at any time, in London, without too much worry

    For some women they just won't go out alone after dark. That's it

    The people who get angry about what to call people with or without penises / vaginas or who can use which public convenience would be better getting exercised about this inequality.
    Yes indeed. And to my shame I had never properly considered it. Grown women scared to go out after dark?

    I guess I generally know younger women who are more confident? - but also more likely to be attacked. Hmm

    And I have usually lived in nicer neighborhoods, but still London is London, a massive world city, with a hint of edginess, everywhere

    For once, the term "privilege" is justified. Male privilege means you can mostly walk out of the door at night, for a walk or a jog or some late night shopping, and feel pretty fine. Many women simply cannot do that, alone, or feel too scared to do it, either way. When you realise this - as a man - it is quite a shock

    What took you so long? I pointed this out in March - see here: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/14/one-womans-perspective/.

    I pointed it out on earlier occasions - when German women were being attacked during NY's Eve celebrations. It is (dare I say it) one of the reasons women, some of them, anyway, value female only spaces - so they don't have to make any sort of assessment about whether a man is being simply friendly or something worse.

    It is something all women learn to take account of from a young age.

    Would that it were different.
    I was actually thinking of you, in part, when I made these comments

    You strike me as a fairly forthright and confident woman (tho of course your real persona may be very different). I can't imagine you being too scared to walk or jog around Hampstead (admittedly a pretty safe place) at 10pm or even 1am?

    But are you happy to do that? Genuine question
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited September 2021
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cracking Messi goal. Class from PSG.

    PSG, City and Liverpool are in a different class to the rest
    Tonight is almost certainly the most expensive football match in history. A billion quid in each team perhaps.
    It's obscene
    Why is it?
    2 billion pounds is not obscene for 22 footballers

    Well it's a view
    No, I didn't offer a view because I don't have one.
    I'd like to see someone say that on Question Time, particularly on a more trivial, topical question.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,349
    edited September 2021
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Time to tap into the PB Brains Trust. I probably have my first ever trip to Baku coming up in November - 2 weeks. Anything on the recommended activity/places to visit must do list?

    Baku is brilliant

    Check out the Zoroastrian fire-shrines, the burning hill, the amazing Soviet oil industry dereliction. Go drinking, it has a fab atmos. The food is intriguing and the Iran-Slav mixed race women often stunning

    The markets were also great when I was there, but this is well over a decade ago, and oil money has changed it rapidly, I have been told

    With two weeks you have the chance to explore. Azerbaijan is tremendously weird. The higher you get into the hills and the countryside, the better and stranger it is. Check the mad Jewish towns surviving from the 5th century BC. Entire villages in the Caucasus where, suddenly, everyone is ginger

    Superb place. Have fun
    Thanks, Leon. I intend to try. My first trip since Dec 2019. Need to shake off that cabin fever.
    In my experience the first foreign trip after Covid is weird, and maybe not completely great. Too nervy. The second and third are fantastic, as the nerves have gone and you are FREEEEEEEE. The sensation of escape is wonderful

    Friends of mine have said the exact same

    However you have a good 2 weeks in Baku which is time to shake off the cobwebs and really enjoy yourself. And Baku is sufficiently mad and strange to distract anyone
    The hilarious thing is that, because this work is ultimately funded by a US government department, I have to take a 6 hour online course and be certified on knowing how to travel internationally!! Only being doing the international travel thing since 1959. They must think that I am a slow learner.

    Almost as idiotic as Notre Dame requiring me to pass English as a Foreign Language exam to go do an MBA there. Needless to say, I told ND to FO and went to INSEAD instead, who did not need me to prove that I spoke French. But this is a paying gig to a fascinating country I've never visited, so I'll swallow my scorn.
    You're going to have a marvellous time

    If I had to choose a new country to visit right now, Azerbaijan would be right up there, as it is so unusual, peculiar, exotic
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    I can't really understand hatred at all, at least not long-term hatred. It requires too much energy for me to maintain.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Where do we think COVID is going in the UK in the coming weeks? I can't quite decide between stop/start or England succumbing to a full on Scot/Wales/NI peak in the coming couple of weeks:

    1. A lot of Northern and Midland England, in particular, showing big increases in COVID rates off average baselines.
    2. It's not the usual suspects - most of the core Northern and Midland cities, plus early Delta wave places like Blackburn, Bolton and Dewsbury are now quite obvious cold spots (very obvious when the HMG map is zoomed in to show local rates). Southern cities outside London, a less obvious distinction.
    3. Possible reasons for cities doing OK, population denominators too high in student areas out of term time, students not yet back long enough for the exponent to really kick in, students most recently vaccinated cohort with best current immunity, lower numbers of kids / parents overall in these areas.
    4. My impression is that low rates spread a bit from the city centres into more mixed city communities, so maybe it is herd immunity as well.
    5. The cities could, of course, just follow suit and get high rates in the next couple of weeks, especially if students are vulnerable.
    6. Demograhically, Malmesbury's 10-15 age group increase is starting to slow, but 5-9s could catch up and make the next increase pulse (Hospitalisations then go off how that spreads through parents into the community).
    7. And the weather has dropped well below 18C and is set to stay down for a while - but does a child's indoor/ outdoor / contact / ventilation behaviour vary less than an adult's

    There is potential for another big increase in cases and hospitalisations through October, though I think it will be running out of people to infect after that and half term / early November could see a very big drop and Christmas approaching on a much lower baseline.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,059

    Tres said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic, if Trump wants the nomination, he will get it and it is increasingly clear he does. Also, he is playing a smart game by keeping relatively quiet. That might not be a popular idea on here given the consensus that Trump is a stupid buffoon but he is a lot smarter than many give him credit for.

    There was also a good piece by Conrad Black today, which won’t please many on here but the link is below. With regards to his comments on the 2020 election, they will make many here choke but, quite frankly, that’s not important - this is what the GOP is thinking about what happened in November:

    https://amgreatness.com/2021/09/27/democrats-repeat-the-mistakes-of-2016/

    Final point. I’m noticing a worrying trend on here that, if Trump does run again in 2024, the only way he will win is by fraud / illegitimate means ie his election will be illegitimate. Ironically, there is a fair bit of overlap between those who are the strongest in pushing this view and those who are most shrill about saying how the GOP’s conduct remains the biggest threat to American democracy. It doesn’t seem to occur to many on here that Trump may win because people will be sick of Biden’s incompetence but it is worrying that we are starting to see the building blocks being out in place to claim any Trump 2024 win is, by default, illegitimate.

    "I’m noticing a worrying trend on here that, if Trump does run again in 2024, the only way he will win is by fraud / illegitimate means"

    Really?

    Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen a single comment along those lines.

    Presumably you have plenty of examples.
    I think you have just had a few examples post your question with one poster admirably admitting his comments could be interpreted as such. And that Trump is a cheat. Plus another one who said that Republican cheating had been going on for years. It’s clear there will be a good solid group - as post-2016 - who would take the view that Trump could not have won legitimately and therefore must have cheated
    Anyone who plays golf knows that Trump is a cheat.
    Yes, and cheating at golf is a massive red flag. Hence the infamous scene from Goldfinger.

    (Filmed at Stoke Poges GC - they are quite proud of it there)

    Trump does bear a resemblance.
    Of course in the novel it was Bridge he was cheating at. Can't really imagine Trump playing Bridge.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    Probably about as much effect as your "ooh, someone in Labour has said something inconvenient".

    Or anything I've said, ever.

    The vast bulk of the British electorate have got far more sense than to watch the daily ups and downs. If in 2023/4, this government has been seen to do a good job, they will get another term. If not, they GBP will look at the alternative and see if they can be trusted.

    We sit here like pigeons on Nelson's column, convinced that people are interested in us, rather than the statue we sit upon.

    But where's the fun in acknowledging that?
    Nonsense, people hang on my opinions. You should see how happy people's faces are after they see I have finished my lengthy speeches about the latest political minutiae. Sometimes they even sigh expansively, I assume as I have just blown their minds.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    You know I just do not hate any politician, as hate takes too much energy

    Dislike most certainly, and Trump and Corbyn top my list but to be honest believe it or not I just cannot hate
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    edited September 2021
    CatMan said:

    Tres said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic, if Trump wants the nomination, he will get it and it is increasingly clear he does. Also, he is playing a smart game by keeping relatively quiet. That might not be a popular idea on here given the consensus that Trump is a stupid buffoon but he is a lot smarter than many give him credit for.

    There was also a good piece by Conrad Black today, which won’t please many on here but the link is below. With regards to his comments on the 2020 election, they will make many here choke but, quite frankly, that’s not important - this is what the GOP is thinking about what happened in November:

    https://amgreatness.com/2021/09/27/democrats-repeat-the-mistakes-of-2016/

    Final point. I’m noticing a worrying trend on here that, if Trump does run again in 2024, the only way he will win is by fraud / illegitimate means ie his election will be illegitimate. Ironically, there is a fair bit of overlap between those who are the strongest in pushing this view and those who are most shrill about saying how the GOP’s conduct remains the biggest threat to American democracy. It doesn’t seem to occur to many on here that Trump may win because people will be sick of Biden’s incompetence but it is worrying that we are starting to see the building blocks being out in place to claim any Trump 2024 win is, by default, illegitimate.

    "I’m noticing a worrying trend on here that, if Trump does run again in 2024, the only way he will win is by fraud / illegitimate means"

    Really?

    Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen a single comment along those lines.

    Presumably you have plenty of examples.
    I think you have just had a few examples post your question with one poster admirably admitting his comments could be interpreted as such. And that Trump is a cheat. Plus another one who said that Republican cheating had been going on for years. It’s clear there will be a good solid group - as post-2016 - who would take the view that Trump could not have won legitimately and therefore must have cheated
    Anyone who plays golf knows that Trump is a cheat.
    Yes, and cheating at golf is a massive red flag. Hence the infamous scene from Goldfinger.

    (Filmed at Stoke Poges GC - they are quite proud of it there)

    Trump does bear a resemblance.
    Of course in the novel it was Bridge he was cheating at. Can't really imagine Trump playing Bridge.
    Partner sacked after every lost hand.
    And he'd try to re-negotiate every contract. Then not honour it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    Indeed. It seems so all consuming. I’ve no love for Johnson, and there must be millions of more able people in the country, but he is PM now, and there is little we can do about it until the next election. Endlessly reposting someone else’s thoughts won’t shift the dial an inch, but if it makes him/her happy so be it. We are all free to ignore his posts, as you all are to ignore mine...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    TimT said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    I can't really understand hatred at all, at least not long-term hatred. It requires too much energy for me to maintain.
    There's something in that. I guess it depends on your personal definition of 'hatred'. How far does it differ from 'deep dislike' for example.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    Unless you are comparing Johnson to Hitler, I don't see how that is at all relevant.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,577
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Time to tap into the PB Brains Trust. I probably have my first ever trip to Baku coming up in November - 2 weeks. Anything on the recommended activity/places to visit must do list?

    Baku is brilliant

    Check out the Zoroastrian fire-shrines, the burning hill, the amazing Soviet oil industry dereliction. Go drinking, it has a fab atmos. The food is intriguing and the Iran-Slav mixed race women often stunning

    The markets were also great when I was there, but this is well over a decade ago, and oil money has changed it rapidly, I have been told

    With two weeks you have the chance to explore. Azerbaijan is tremendously weird. The higher you get into the hills and the countryside, the better and stranger it is. Check the mad Jewish towns surviving from the 5th century BC. Entire villages in the Caucasus where, suddenly, everyone is ginger

    Superb place. Have fun
    Thanks, Leon. I intend to try. My first trip since Dec 2019. Need to shake off that cabin fever.
    In my experience the first foreign trip after Covid is weird, and maybe not completely great. Too nervy. The second and third are fantastic, as the nerves have gone and you are FREEEEEEEE. The sensation of escape is wonderful

    Friends of mine have said the exact same

    However you have a good 2 weeks in Baku which is time to shake off the cobwebs and really enjoy yourself. And Baku is sufficiently mad and strange to distract anyone
    The hilarious thing is that, because this work is ultimately funded by a US government department, I have to take a 6 hour online course and be certified on knowing how to travel internationally!! Only being doing the international travel thing since 1959. They must think that I am a slow learner.

    Almost as idiotic as Notre Dame requiring me to pass English as a Foreign Language exam to go do an MBA there. Needless to say, I told ND to FO and went to INSEAD instead, who did not need me to prove that I spoke French. But this is a paying gig to a fascinating country I've never visited, so I'll swallow my scorn.
    You're going to have a marvellous time

    If I had to choose a new country to visit right now, Azerbaijan would be right up there, as it is so unusual, peculiar, exotic
    Certainly a country I have not spent long enough in.

    Had an interesting "negotiation", with a former Greco-Roman wrestling champion. He would politely (at first at least) listen to my case as to why we should make a change to their contract, say "No - next...." and wait for me to make the case on the next point with an identical outcome....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    You know I just do not hate any politician, as hate takes too much energy

    Dislike most certainly, and Trump and Corbyn top my list but to be honest believe it or not I just cannot hate
    I think that's generally a good philosophy but then I think of someone like Hitler or Stalin, or Mao...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Pro_Rata said:

    Where do we think COVID is going in the UK in the coming weeks? I can't quite decide between stop/start or England succumbing to a full on Scot/Wales/NI peak in the coming couple of weeks:

    1. A lot of Northern and Midland England, in particular, showing big increases in COVID rates off average baselines.
    2. It's not the usual suspects - most of the core Northern and Midland cities, plus early Delta wave places like Blackburn, Bolton and Dewsbury are now quite obvious cold spots (very obvious when the HMG map is zoomed in to show local rates). Southern cities outside London, a less obvious distinction.
    3. Possible reasons for cities doing OK, population denominators too high in student areas out of term time, students not yet back long enough for the exponent to really kick in, students most recently vaccinated cohort with best current immunity, lower numbers of kids / parents overall in these areas.
    4. My impression is that low rates spread a bit from the city centres into more mixed city communities, so maybe it is herd immunity as well.
    5. The cities could, of course, just follow suit and get high rates in the next couple of weeks, especially if students are vulnerable.
    6. Demograhically, Malmesbury's 10-15 age group increase is starting to slow, but 5-9s could catch up and make the next increase pulse (Hospitalisations then go off how that spreads through parents into the community).
    7. And the weather has dropped well below 18C and is set to stay down for a while - but does a child's indoor/ outdoor / contact / ventilation behaviour vary less than an adult's

    There is potential for another big increase in cases and hospitalisations through October, though I think it will be running out of people to infect after that and half term / early November could see a very big drop and Christmas approaching on a much lower baseline.

    Personally think cases will carry on at a similar level, mainly due to the kids, but I’m hopeful that hospitalisation and in hospital numbers will carry on falling, especially with the boosters going in. We are reaching, if we haven’t already, the time to stop worrying about cases.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Where do we think COVID is going in the UK in the coming weeks? I can't quite decide between stop/start or England succumbing to a full on Scot/Wales/NI peak in the coming couple of weeks:

    1. A lot of Northern and Midland England, in particular, showing big increases in COVID rates off average baselines.
    2. It's not the usual suspects - most of the core Northern and Midland cities, plus early Delta wave places like Blackburn, Bolton and Dewsbury are now quite obvious cold spots (very obvious when the HMG map is zoomed in to show local rates). Southern cities outside London, a less obvious distinction.
    3. Possible reasons for cities doing OK, population denominators too high in student areas out of term time, students not yet back long enough for the exponent to really kick in, students most recently vaccinated cohort with best current immunity, lower numbers of kids / parents overall in these areas.
    4. My impression is that low rates spread a bit from the city centres into more mixed city communities, so maybe it is herd immunity as well.
    5. The cities could, of course, just follow suit and get high rates in the next couple of weeks, especially if students are vulnerable.
    6. Demograhically, Malmesbury's 10-15 age group increase is starting to slow, but 5-9s could catch up and make the next increase pulse (Hospitalisations then go off how that spreads through parents into the community).
    7. And the weather has dropped well below 18C and is set to stay down for a while - but does a child's indoor/ outdoor / contact / ventilation behaviour vary less than an adult's

    There is potential for another big increase in cases and hospitalisations through October, though I think it will be running out of people to infect after that and half term / early November could see a very big drop and Christmas approaching on a much lower baseline.

    I think a large part of our country considers it over, and it is not featuring in the media anything like it was with the huge bonus that we do not have to listen to iSage nonsense anymore
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686
    edited September 2021
    Pro_Rata said:

    Where do we think COVID is going in the UK in the coming weeks? I can't quite decide between stop/start or England succumbing to a full on Scot/Wales/NI peak in the coming couple of weeks:

    1. A lot of Northern and Midland England, in particular, showing big increases in COVID rates off average baselines.
    2. It's not the usual suspects - most of the core Northern and Midland cities, plus early Delta wave places like Blackburn, Bolton and Dewsbury are now quite obvious cold spots (very obvious when the HMG map is zoomed in to show local rates). Southern cities outside London, a less obvious distinction.
    3. Possible reasons for cities doing OK, population denominators too high in student areas out of term time, students not yet back long enough for the exponent to really kick in, students most recently vaccinated cohort with best current immunity, lower numbers of kids / parents overall in these areas.
    4. My impression is that low rates spread a bit from the city centres into more mixed city communities, so maybe it is herd immunity as well.
    5. The cities could, of course, just follow suit and get high rates in the next couple of weeks, especially if students are vulnerable.
    6. Demograhically, Malmesbury's 10-15 age group increase is starting to slow, but 5-9s could catch up and make the next increase pulse (Hospitalisations then go off how that spreads through parents into the community).
    7. And the weather has dropped well below 18C and is set to stay down for a while - but does a child's indoor/ outdoor / contact / ventilation behaviour vary less than an adult's

    There is potential for another big increase in cases and hospitalisations through October, though I think it will be running out of people to infect after that and half term / early November could see a very big drop and Christmas approaching on a much lower baseline.

    At a million cases per month split between vaxxed and unvaxxed, there will still be plenty of cases until at least Christmas. There are 5 million unvaxxed.

    I reckon cases will bump up and down at much the same numbers that we have had for the last 2 months for another few months yet.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667
    Black Labour group say the party is ‘no longer a safe space’ for black members: Starmer faces claims that anti-black racism is being ignored.

    Jeremy Corbyn: Keir Starmer wants to prop up the wealthy and the powerful
    Labour membership and trade unions are under attack because they want social change
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    edited September 2021

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    You know I just do not hate any politician, as hate takes too much energy

    Dislike most certainly, and Trump and Corbyn top my list but to be honest believe it or not I just cannot hate
    I think that's generally a good philosophy but then I think of someone like Hitler or Stalin, or Mao...
    Sure, but those are very much outliers, and while they certainly engaged in politics, are not what people are thinking of when they talk in an everyday context of liking or hating politicians. I don't think everyday casual expressions such as 'I do not hate any poltician' needs an explicit caveat of 'unless they are Hitler'.

    One reason I dislike Trump so much is precisely because he stirs up my emotions so much more than any other politician, even those I like or dislike.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    Unless you are comparing Johnson to Hitler, I don't see how that is at all relevant.
    Of course not.

    But you said "I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician" Not specifically Johnson but 'a politician'.

    I inferred from that that you could think of no politician deserving of hate. Hitler was a politician. I rest my case.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Farooq said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Where do we think COVID is going in the UK in the coming weeks? I can't quite decide between stop/start or England succumbing to a full on Scot/Wales/NI peak in the coming couple of weeks:

    1. A lot of Northern and Midland England, in particular, showing big increases in COVID rates off average baselines.
    2. It's not the usual suspects - most of the core Northern and Midland cities, plus early Delta wave places like Blackburn, Bolton and Dewsbury are now quite obvious cold spots (very obvious when the HMG map is zoomed in to show local rates). Southern cities outside London, a less obvious distinction.
    3. Possible reasons for cities doing OK, population denominators too high in student areas out of term time, students not yet back long enough for the exponent to really kick in, students most recently vaccinated cohort with best current immunity, lower numbers of kids / parents overall in these areas.
    4. My impression is that low rates spread a bit from the city centres into more mixed city communities, so maybe it is herd immunity as well.
    5. The cities could, of course, just follow suit and get high rates in the next couple of weeks, especially if students are vulnerable.
    6. Demograhically, Malmesbury's 10-15 age group increase is starting to slow, but 5-9s could catch up and make the next increase pulse (Hospitalisations then go off how that spreads through parents into the community).
    7. And the weather has dropped well below 18C and is set to stay down for a while - but does a child's indoor/ outdoor / contact / ventilation behaviour vary less than an adult's

    There is potential for another big increase in cases and hospitalisations through October, though I think it will be running out of people to infect after that and half term / early November could see a very big drop and Christmas approaching on a much lower baseline.

    I think a large part of our country considers it over, and it is not featuring in the media anything like it was with the huge bonus that we do not have to listen to iSage nonsense anymore
    You know what, I've never seen anything about iSage ever, apart from on here. I can't imagine why you think you "had" to listen to them.
    There members have frequently been on the bbc and sky etc, usually spitting out worst case scenarios. It’s been very noticeable.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    You know I just do not hate any politician, as hate takes too much energy

    Dislike most certainly, and Trump and Corbyn top my list but to be honest believe it or not I just cannot hate
    I think that's generally a good philosophy but then I think of someone like Hitler or Stalin, or Mao...
    I just do not do hate and I am not being self righteous or religious but I do dislike, even intensely in the case if Trump and Corbyn
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    Farooq said:

    CatMan said:

    Tres said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic, if Trump wants the nomination, he will get it and it is increasingly clear he does. Also, he is playing a smart game by keeping relatively quiet. That might not be a popular idea on here given the consensus that Trump is a stupid buffoon but he is a lot smarter than many give him credit for.

    There was also a good piece by Conrad Black today, which won’t please many on here but the link is below. With regards to his comments on the 2020 election, they will make many here choke but, quite frankly, that’s not important - this is what the GOP is thinking about what happened in November:

    https://amgreatness.com/2021/09/27/democrats-repeat-the-mistakes-of-2016/

    Final point. I’m noticing a worrying trend on here that, if Trump does run again in 2024, the only way he will win is by fraud / illegitimate means ie his election will be illegitimate. Ironically, there is a fair bit of overlap between those who are the strongest in pushing this view and those who are most shrill about saying how the GOP’s conduct remains the biggest threat to American democracy. It doesn’t seem to occur to many on here that Trump may win because people will be sick of Biden’s incompetence but it is worrying that we are starting to see the building blocks being out in place to claim any Trump 2024 win is, by default, illegitimate.

    "I’m noticing a worrying trend on here that, if Trump does run again in 2024, the only way he will win is by fraud / illegitimate means"

    Really?

    Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen a single comment along those lines.

    Presumably you have plenty of examples.
    I think you have just had a few examples post your question with one poster admirably admitting his comments could be interpreted as such. And that Trump is a cheat. Plus another one who said that Republican cheating had been going on for years. It’s clear there will be a good solid group - as post-2016 - who would take the view that Trump could not have won legitimately and therefore must have cheated
    Anyone who plays golf knows that Trump is a cheat.
    Yes, and cheating at golf is a massive red flag. Hence the infamous scene from Goldfinger.

    (Filmed at Stoke Poges GC - they are quite proud of it there)

    Trump does bear a resemblance.
    Of course in the novel it was Bridge he was cheating at. Can't really imagine Trump playing Bridge.
    Tiny hands can't hold 13 cards.
    He'd be an excellent dummy though.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    Unless you are comparing Johnson to Hitler, I don't see how that is at all relevant.
    Of course not.

    But you said "I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician" Not specifically Johnson but 'a politician'.

    I inferred from that that you could think of no politician deserving of hate. Hitler was a politician. I rest my case.
    Of course, there have been some pretty nasty politicians in history. But that's not really the context of what I was saying, is it? But for the avoidance of any doubt "I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a non-dictator, mainstream politician".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Farooq said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Where do we think COVID is going in the UK in the coming weeks? I can't quite decide between stop/start or England succumbing to a full on Scot/Wales/NI peak in the coming couple of weeks:

    1. A lot of Northern and Midland England, in particular, showing big increases in COVID rates off average baselines.
    2. It's not the usual suspects - most of the core Northern and Midland cities, plus early Delta wave places like Blackburn, Bolton and Dewsbury are now quite obvious cold spots (very obvious when the HMG map is zoomed in to show local rates). Southern cities outside London, a less obvious distinction.
    3. Possible reasons for cities doing OK, population denominators too high in student areas out of term time, students not yet back long enough for the exponent to really kick in, students most recently vaccinated cohort with best current immunity, lower numbers of kids / parents overall in these areas.
    4. My impression is that low rates spread a bit from the city centres into more mixed city communities, so maybe it is herd immunity as well.
    5. The cities could, of course, just follow suit and get high rates in the next couple of weeks, especially if students are vulnerable.
    6. Demograhically, Malmesbury's 10-15 age group increase is starting to slow, but 5-9s could catch up and make the next increase pulse (Hospitalisations then go off how that spreads through parents into the community).
    7. And the weather has dropped well below 18C and is set to stay down for a while - but does a child's indoor/ outdoor / contact / ventilation behaviour vary less than an adult's

    There is potential for another big increase in cases and hospitalisations through October, though I think it will be running out of people to infect after that and half term / early November could see a very big drop and Christmas approaching on a much lower baseline.

    I think a large part of our country considers it over, and it is not featuring in the media anything like it was with the huge bonus that we do not have to listen to iSage nonsense anymore
    You know what, I've never seen anything about iSage ever, apart from on here. I can't imagine why you think you "had" to listen to them.
    There members have frequently been on the bbc and sky etc, usually spitting out worst case scenarios. It’s been very noticeable.
    Even more worrying, they are everywhere without revealing their affiliation.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    You know I just do not hate any politician, as hate takes too much energy

    Dislike most certainly, and Trump and Corbyn top my list but to be honest believe it or not I just cannot hate
    I think that's generally a good philosophy but then I think of someone like Hitler or Stalin, or Mao...
    I just do not do hate and I am not being self righteous or religious but I do dislike, even intensely in the case if Trump and Corbyn
    Tbh Big_G, I'm with you.

    I am arguing with @RobD and @kle4 for the sake of a bit of challenge and discussion really. Sorry guys!

    I agree, hate is not the answer. Intense dislike, distrust, distaste and probably a few other dis-es is what I feel for these people. Not hate - hate breeds hate.
  • Farooq said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Where do we think COVID is going in the UK in the coming weeks? I can't quite decide between stop/start or England succumbing to a full on Scot/Wales/NI peak in the coming couple of weeks:

    1. A lot of Northern and Midland England, in particular, showing big increases in COVID rates off average baselines.
    2. It's not the usual suspects - most of the core Northern and Midland cities, plus early Delta wave places like Blackburn, Bolton and Dewsbury are now quite obvious cold spots (very obvious when the HMG map is zoomed in to show local rates). Southern cities outside London, a less obvious distinction.
    3. Possible reasons for cities doing OK, population denominators too high in student areas out of term time, students not yet back long enough for the exponent to really kick in, students most recently vaccinated cohort with best current immunity, lower numbers of kids / parents overall in these areas.
    4. My impression is that low rates spread a bit from the city centres into more mixed city communities, so maybe it is herd immunity as well.
    5. The cities could, of course, just follow suit and get high rates in the next couple of weeks, especially if students are vulnerable.
    6. Demograhically, Malmesbury's 10-15 age group increase is starting to slow, but 5-9s could catch up and make the next increase pulse (Hospitalisations then go off how that spreads through parents into the community).
    7. And the weather has dropped well below 18C and is set to stay down for a while - but does a child's indoor/ outdoor / contact / ventilation behaviour vary less than an adult's

    There is potential for another big increase in cases and hospitalisations through October, though I think it will be running out of people to infect after that and half term / early November could see a very big drop and Christmas approaching on a much lower baseline.

    I think a large part of our country considers it over, and it is not featuring in the media anything like it was with the huge bonus that we do not have to listen to iSage nonsense anymore
    You know what, I've never seen anything about iSage ever, apart from on here. I can't imagine why you think you "had" to listen to them.
    With respect if you followed the news media they were never off it, and many on here will concur we are better served with less noise from them
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686

    Black Labour group say the party is ‘no longer a safe space’ for black members: Starmer faces claims that anti-black racism is being ignored.

    Jeremy Corbyn: Keir Starmer wants to prop up the wealthy and the powerful
    Labour membership and trade unions are under attack because they want social change

    Is it all about Black members being disciplined for alleged anti-semitism? That is what it sounds like:

    https://www.voice-online.co.uk/news/2021/09/26/labour-is-no-longer-a-safe-space-for-black-members/

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    Unless you are comparing Johnson to Hitler, I don't see how that is at all relevant.
    Of course not.

    But you said "I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician" Not specifically Johnson but 'a politician'.

    I inferred from that that you could think of no politician deserving of hate. Hitler was a politician. I rest my case.
    Of course, there have been some pretty nasty politicians in history. But that's not really the context of what I was saying, is it? But for the avoidance of any doubt "I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a non-dictator, mainstream politician".
    Acknowledged. See my apology upthread.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,091
    Identification of a gene variant affecting the innate immune response, which appears to protect against severe Covid.

    A prenylated dsRNA sensor protects against severe COVID-19
    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abj3624

    Its incidence has an interesting geographic variability in humans (and it’s completely absent in horseshoe bats).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    You know I just do not hate any politician, as hate takes too much energy

    Dislike most certainly, and Trump and Corbyn top my list but to be honest believe it or not I just cannot hate
    I think that's generally a good philosophy but then I think of someone like Hitler or Stalin, or Mao...
    I just do not do hate and I am not being self righteous or religious but I do dislike, even intensely in the case if Trump and Corbyn
    Tbh Big_G, I'm with you.

    I am arguing with @RobD and @kle4 for the sake of a bit of challenge and discussion really. Sorry guys!

    I agree, hate is not the answer. Intense dislike, distrust, distaste and probably a few other dis-es is what I feel for these people. Not hate - hate breeds hate.
    No need to be sorry!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845

    Black Labour group say the party is ‘no longer a safe space’ for black members: Starmer faces claims that anti-black racism is being ignored.

    Jeremy Corbyn: Keir Starmer wants to prop up the wealthy and the powerful
    Labour membership and trade unions are under attack because they want social change

    He's working on that readmission thing with all the skill and poise he brought to a GE campaign. What the hell were Labour smoking?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Where do we think COVID is going in the UK in the coming weeks? I can't quite decide between stop/start or England succumbing to a full on Scot/Wales/NI peak in the coming couple of weeks:

    1. A lot of Northern and Midland England, in particular, showing big increases in COVID rates off average baselines.
    2. It's not the usual suspects - most of the core Northern and Midland cities, plus early Delta wave places like Blackburn, Bolton and Dewsbury are now quite obvious cold spots (very obvious when the HMG map is zoomed in to show local rates). Southern cities outside London, a less obvious distinction.
    3. Possible reasons for cities doing OK, population denominators too high in student areas out of term time, students not yet back long enough for the exponent to really kick in, students most recently vaccinated cohort with best current immunity, lower numbers of kids / parents overall in these areas.
    4. My impression is that low rates spread a bit from the city centres into more mixed city communities, so maybe it is herd immunity as well.
    5. The cities could, of course, just follow suit and get high rates in the next couple of weeks, especially if students are vulnerable.
    6. Demograhically, Malmesbury's 10-15 age group increase is starting to slow, but 5-9s could catch up and make the next increase pulse (Hospitalisations then go off how that spreads through parents into the community).
    7. And the weather has dropped well below 18C and is set to stay down for a while - but does a child's indoor/ outdoor / contact / ventilation behaviour vary less than an adult's

    There is potential for another big increase in cases and hospitalisations through October, though I think it will be running out of people to infect after that and half term / early November could see a very big drop and Christmas approaching on a much lower baseline.

    At a million cases per month split between vaxxed and unvaxxed, there will still be plenty of cases until at least Christmas. There are 5 million unvaxxed.

    I reckon cases will bump up and down at much the same numbers that we have had for the last 2 months for another few months yet.
    That's my feeling too, with deaths and hospitalizations continuing to fall off a bit as a greater proportion of new cases are amongst kids.

    I think we still have to follow (at least the public health community should) the case data as this virus has continually surprised us and shown us just how much we have yet to learn about viruses, viral evolution, and epidemiology. But I think the time for the public to worry about case numbers is over, at least in the UK and other countries with similar levels of vaccination and seropositivity.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    Unless you are comparing Johnson to Hitler, I don't see how that is at all relevant.
    Of course not.

    But you said "I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician" Not specifically Johnson but 'a politician'.

    I inferred from that that you could think of no politician deserving of hate. Hitler was a politician. I rest my case.
    Of course, there have been some pretty nasty politicians in history. But that's not really the context of what I was saying, is it? But for the avoidance of any doubt "I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a non-dictator, mainstream politician".
    Acknowledged. See my apology upthread.
    Not accepted because it isn't needed. Good practice not to speak in such broad generalities lol.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    edited September 2021
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    You know I just do not hate any politician, as hate takes too much energy

    Dislike most certainly, and Trump and Corbyn top my list but to be honest believe it or not I just cannot hate
    I think that's generally a good philosophy but then I think of someone like Hitler or Stalin, or Mao...
    I just do not do hate and I am not being self righteous or religious but I do dislike, even intensely in the case if Trump and Corbyn
    Tbh Big_G, I'm with you.

    I am arguing with RobD and kle4 for the sake of a bit of challenge and discussion really. Sorry guys!

    I agree, hate is not the answer. Intense dislike, distrust, distaste and probably a few other dis-es is what I feel for these people. Not hate - hate breeds hate.
    No need to be sorry!
    Speak for yourself, I demand total obeisance if I am to be mollified. My wrath is legendary, like the fury of a thousand suns, or a less cliched simile.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,091
    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    Tres said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    On topic, if Trump wants the nomination, he will get it and it is increasingly clear he does. Also, he is playing a smart game by keeping relatively quiet. That might not be a popular idea on here given the consensus that Trump is a stupid buffoon but he is a lot smarter than many give him credit for.

    There was also a good piece by Conrad Black today, which won’t please many on here but the link is below. With regards to his comments on the 2020 election, they will make many here choke but, quite frankly, that’s not important - this is what the GOP is thinking about what happened in November:

    https://amgreatness.com/2021/09/27/democrats-repeat-the-mistakes-of-2016/

    Final point. I’m noticing a worrying trend on here that, if Trump does run again in 2024, the only way he will win is by fraud / illegitimate means ie his election will be illegitimate. Ironically, there is a fair bit of overlap between those who are the strongest in pushing this view and those who are most shrill about saying how the GOP’s conduct remains the biggest threat to American democracy. It doesn’t seem to occur to many on here that Trump may win because people will be sick of Biden’s incompetence but it is worrying that we are starting to see the building blocks being out in place to claim any Trump 2024 win is, by default, illegitimate.

    "I’m noticing a worrying trend on here that, if Trump does run again in 2024, the only way he will win is by fraud / illegitimate means"

    Really?

    Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen a single comment along those lines.

    Presumably you have plenty of examples.
    I think you have just had a few examples post your question with one poster admirably admitting his comments could be interpreted as such. And that Trump is a cheat. Plus another one who said that Republican cheating had been going on for years. It’s clear there will be a good solid group - as post-2016 - who would take the view that Trump could not have won legitimately and therefore must have cheated
    Anyone who plays golf knows that Trump is a cheat.
    Yes, and cheating at golf is a massive red flag. Hence the infamous scene from Goldfinger.

    (Filmed at Stoke Poges GC - they are quite proud of it there)

    Trump does bear a resemblance.
    Of course in the novel it was Bridge he was cheating at. Can't really imagine Trump playing Bridge.
    Partner sacked after every lost hand.
    And he'd try to re-negotiate every contract. Then not honour it.
    Fake news - he never bid five no trumps.
  • Pretty stark graphic as to how the Trump cult states are unvaxxed.

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1442842796453363716



    To be brutal, maybe there is hope for 2024 election.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    DavidL said:

    Black Labour group say the party is ‘no longer a safe space’ for black members: Starmer faces claims that anti-black racism is being ignored.

    Jeremy Corbyn: Keir Starmer wants to prop up the wealthy and the powerful
    Labour membership and trade unions are under attack because they want social change

    He's working on that readmission thing with all the skill and poise he brought to a GE campaign. What the hell were Labour smoking?
    Corbyn is where he belongs, speaking to the people be belongs with, and is surely much more comfortable and happy there. What a waste of 4 years for him, never mind all the other impacts.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited September 2021
    ..
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited September 2021
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    Unless you are comparing Johnson to Hitler, I don't see how that is at all relevant.
    Of course not.

    But you said "I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician" Not specifically Johnson but 'a politician'.

    I inferred from that that you could think of no politician deserving of hate. Hitler was a politician. I rest my case.
    Of course, there have been some pretty nasty politicians in history. But that's not really the context of what I was saying, is it? But for the avoidance of any doubt "I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a non-dictator, mainstream politician".
    I don't hate Johnson, but I admit I can't stand him. This has nothing to do with his politics. The perhaps illogical reason is that I don't find him in the slightest bit amusing or charming. This isn't a problem for Theresa May, but that wasn't her schtick either. A charmer that doesn't charm has nothing to offer.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That stupidity is the reason for Brexit

    Stupidity is certainly the driving force behind Brexit.
    A polite question this time

    Do you really believe your huge anti brexit output has changed any minds rather than the opposite
    If anyone has had a good fuel crisis, it's been Scott. He's been right on form, and yes, moving me further towards the Brexit-is-being-done-badly position.
    Sorry that isn't the answer you wanted.
    I know Scott gets a lot of stick on here but I for one value his posts - it saves me bothering with Twitter first-hand, which is a big plus.
    He deserve some of that stick too. Not everything is about Brexit. But when there are clearly negative Brexit related issues, Scott's right in his element.
    Not everything he posts is about Brexit either - see the earlier 'Don't Panic' Johnson cartoon.
    No, his hatred of Johnson gets a look in every now and again.
    And a very understandable hatred it is too ;-)
    Not really. I can't understand how someone can have such a visceral hatred of a politician.
    What, never?!

    Ok I get that you can't understand it about Johnson, or maybe Corbyn, or Trump even... but cast your mind back 80 or 90 years.
    You know I just do not hate any politician, as hate takes too much energy

    Dislike most certainly, and Trump and Corbyn top my list but to be honest believe it or not I just cannot hate
    I think that's generally a good philosophy but then I think of someone like Hitler or Stalin, or Mao...
    I just do not do hate and I am not being self righteous or religious but I do dislike, even intensely in the case if Trump and Corbyn
    Tbh Big_G, I'm with you.

    I am arguing with RobD and kle4 for the sake of a bit of challenge and discussion really. Sorry guys!

    I agree, hate is not the answer. Intense dislike, distrust, distaste and probably a few other dis-es is what I feel for these people. Not hate - hate breeds hate.
    No need to be sorry!
    Speak for yourself, I demand total obeisance if I am to be mollified. My wrath is legendary, like the fury of a thousand suns, or a less cliched simile.
    Ok - just promise not to hate me for it!
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Where do we think COVID is going in the UK in the coming weeks? I can't quite decide between stop/start or England succumbing to a full on Scot/Wales/NI peak in the coming couple of weeks:

    1. A lot of Northern and Midland England, in particular, showing big increases in COVID rates off average baselines.
    2. It's not the usual suspects - most of the core Northern and Midland cities, plus early Delta wave places like Blackburn, Bolton and Dewsbury are now quite obvious cold spots (very obvious when the HMG map is zoomed in to show local rates). Southern cities outside London, a less obvious distinction.
    3. Possible reasons for cities doing OK, population denominators too high in student areas out of term time, students not yet back long enough for the exponent to really kick in, students most recently vaccinated cohort with best current immunity, lower numbers of kids / parents overall in these areas.
    4. My impression is that low rates spread a bit from the city centres into more mixed city communities, so maybe it is herd immunity as well.
    5. The cities could, of course, just follow suit and get high rates in the next couple of weeks, especially if students are vulnerable.
    6. Demograhically, Malmesbury's 10-15 age group increase is starting to slow, but 5-9s could catch up and make the next increase pulse (Hospitalisations then go off how that spreads through parents into the community).
    7. And the weather has dropped well below 18C and is set to stay down for a while - but does a child's indoor/ outdoor / contact / ventilation behaviour vary less than an adult's

    There is potential for another big increase in cases and hospitalisations through October, though I think it will be running out of people to infect after that and half term / early November could see a very big drop and Christmas approaching on a much lower baseline.

    I think a large part of our country considers it over, and it is not featuring in the media anything like it was with the huge bonus that we do not have to listen to iSage nonsense anymore
    You know what, I've never seen anything about iSage ever, apart from on here. I can't imagine why you think you "had" to listen to them.
    With respect if you followed the news media they were never off it, and many on here will concur we are better served with less noise from them
    Never off it? Goodness, it's a wonder you keep tuning in.
    I am retired and not as mobile as I was and either BBC or Sky news are on in the background constantly

    Unless you keep yourself informed across the media, then how can you understand the nuance of the debates and discussions and try to come to a fair conclusion
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    Pretty stark graphic as to how the Trump cult states are unvaxxed.

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1442842796453363716

    To be brutal, maybe there is hope for 2024 election.

    I see it is also government shutdown season soon according to that. Bizarre such a major economy can face such political deadlock over everyday operation.
  • One for those of us who wonder why Yvette is not on the front bench at the very least*:


    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    Surprise here that Keir Starmer hasn't been shouting from rooftops about cost of living crisis.

    Yvette Cooper:"It's what we should be talking about most. It's going to be devastating for families right across the country. I don't know how many are going to manage this Christmas"



    * Yes, we know about HIPs - it was 20 years ago for christ sake.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686
    TimT said:

    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Where do we think COVID is going in the UK in the coming weeks? I can't quite decide between stop/start or England succumbing to a full on Scot/Wales/NI peak in the coming couple of weeks:

    1. A lot of Northern and Midland England, in particular, showing big increases in COVID rates off average baselines.
    2. It's not the usual suspects - most of the core Northern and Midland cities, plus early Delta wave places like Blackburn, Bolton and Dewsbury are now quite obvious cold spots (very obvious when the HMG map is zoomed in to show local rates). Southern cities outside London, a less obvious distinction.
    3. Possible reasons for cities doing OK, population denominators too high in student areas out of term time, students not yet back long enough for the exponent to really kick in, students most recently vaccinated cohort with best current immunity, lower numbers of kids / parents overall in these areas.
    4. My impression is that low rates spread a bit from the city centres into more mixed city communities, so maybe it is herd immunity as well.
    5. The cities could, of course, just follow suit and get high rates in the next couple of weeks, especially if students are vulnerable.
    6. Demograhically, Malmesbury's 10-15 age group increase is starting to slow, but 5-9s could catch up and make the next increase pulse (Hospitalisations then go off how that spreads through parents into the community).
    7. And the weather has dropped well below 18C and is set to stay down for a while - but does a child's indoor/ outdoor / contact / ventilation behaviour vary less than an adult's

    There is potential for another big increase in cases and hospitalisations through October, though I think it will be running out of people to infect after that and half term / early November could see a very big drop and Christmas approaching on a much lower baseline.

    At a million cases per month split between vaxxed and unvaxxed, there will still be plenty of cases until at least Christmas. There are 5 million unvaxxed.

    I reckon cases will bump up and down at much the same numbers that we have had for the last 2 months for another few months yet.
    That's my feeling too, with deaths and hospitalizations continuing to fall off a bit as a greater proportion of new cases are amongst kids.

    I think we still have to follow (at least the public health community should) the case data as this virus has continually surprised us and shown us just how much we have yet to learn about viruses, viral evolution, and epidemiology. But I think the time for the public to worry about case numbers is over, at least in the UK and other countries with similar levels of vaccination and seropositivity.
    The pressure on hospitals like mine won't be insignificant. Currently we have between 90 and 140 patients, 20 in ICU. That is about 25% of the February peak, but still quite a major drag on performance. It is about 40% of our ICU capacity for example, so a lot of major planned surgery in cardio-thoracic and major cancer work cannot continue.
This discussion has been closed.