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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Introducing the “33rd most influential person in the over 5

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited January 2014 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Introducing the “33rd most influential person in the over 50s on Twitter”

See the top 60 list here from the Telegraph

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited January 2014
    There are only 34 people over 50 on Twitter. Vince Cable is #34.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited January 2014
    You're more influential than Rupert Murdoch, we're lucky to be able to read your thoughts on a regular basis for free.
  • Hmmmm

    The Liberal Democrats have today sent an email to those on their approved Parliamentary candidates list.

    Titled 'strictly confidential', it states that "we need to be prepared for any eventuality" and the party has "decided to expedite the selection of a candidate" in Ribble Valley.

    The local party says it will consider all applications from approved candidates.

    Interviews "are planned for Saturday 18th January from 3pm" and will be held in Stockport. The members meeting and vote will then take place on Sunday 19th January at 2pm in Clitheroe.

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/91204/lib_dems_gear_up_in_ribble_valley.html
  • And you were mentioned on Sky News last night by Kevin Maguire
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    How did they calculate it?
  • I would be impressed with 32nd.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    TOPPING said:

    How did they calculate it?

    PR².
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited January 2014
    TOPPING said:

    How did they calculate it?

    In the past PeerIndex have calculated in other fields, by the number of twitter followers and who else follows you. For example being followed by David Cameron and Ed Miliband is worth more than being followed by 100,000 plebs normal people.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited January 2014

    And you were mentioned on Sky News last night by Kevin Maguire

    Mike should wear the anorak more often!
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Wasn't it.. "most under the influence" (of alchohol)?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    The sad thing is there are only thirty-three over-50s on Twitter....
  • Just think, eight years ago on Friday, Mike was being criticised in the Guardian by Jackie Ashley

    We may be betting animals but politicians aren't horses

    The latest absurdity in the self-referential world of politics is a fashion for treating the bookies as neutral commentators.

    There is a new sound in the background music of politics. It goes: ping! Day in, day out, whether the issue is David Cameron's latest move or the Liberal Democrat leadership race, my computer pings away like a fruit machine. And each ping brings me the latest thoughts of influential political commentators - people such as Robin Hutchinson, David Williams, Graham Sharpe and Mike Smithson.

    It is possible that you may not have heard of these gents. You can scan all the papers you like and you won't find them writing earnest columns from the Westminster lobby. However doggedly you channel-hop, you won't find them standing under umbrellas on Downing Street.

    For they don't work for the Telegraph or the Observer, or the BBC or Sky. They work for Ladbrokes, William Hill and politicalbetting.com. But their influence is the latest ingredient in the perpetual, accelerating loop of commentary that politicians struggle to break.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/jan/16/politicalcolumnists.comment
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    RodCrosby said:

    The sad thing is there are only thirty-three over-50s on Twitter....

    Get your own jokes!

  • Go Smithson!

    I agree with this actually. ‘Influence’ is a word much abused. Some actresses are on the US ‘top 100’ list. That’s a crock. ‘Influence’ implies that the holder of influence is able to help shape the decision making outcomes of someone with real power. (So in the lefty world of Obama maybe it’s not a crock to call Susan Sarandon influential!).

    But PB is rather unique. It is the only site I know of where UK politics gets an intelligent live no-holds-barred discussion. No wonder it is the most read political blog. One day we’re talking about UK mineral rights not belonging to private landowners and that we must find ways to ‘share the proceeds’ and the next day we see the a Telegraph leader on this and government initiatives spewing forth.

    PB is read by a very large number of people in the Westminster bubble and ideas/criticisms/opinions are seen by eyeballs at the most senior level. So actually it’s not Mike who is influential so much as all of us. Go tim! Go SeanT!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    *DEFINITELY OFF TOPIC* (!)

    Bad day for my schoolboy memories with all these celebs trooping into court today.
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited January 2014

    Hmmmm

    The Liberal Democrats have today sent an email to those on their approved Parliamentary candidates list.

    Titled 'strictly confidential', it states that "we need to be prepared for any eventuality" and the party has "decided to expedite the selection of a candidate" in Ribble Valley.

    The local party says it will consider all applications from approved candidates.

    Interviews "are planned for Saturday 18th January from 3pm" and will be held in Stockport. The members meeting and vote will then take place on Sunday 19th January at 2pm in Clitheroe.

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/91204/lib_dems_gear_up_in_ribble_valley.html

    The trial date for the incumbent member is 10 March. The plea and case management hearing has been fixed for 24 January at the Crown Court at Preston, before King J.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    @Patrick

    PB is read by a very large number of people in the Westminster bubble and ideas/criticisms/opinions are seen by eyeballs at the most senior level. So actually it’s not Mike who is influential so much as all of us. Go tim! Go SeanT!

    We are all OGH's children on PB.

    In other words, unrepentant, right wing, libertarian capitalists.

    Where did he go wrong?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    What a nice day. My accountant called to say I was getting an £8,600 tax rebate.
  • Does this site make money? It's got thousands of views, but (fortunately) you don't see it plastered with adverts.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I don't get it.

    How can OGH, lovely though he is, be placed 33rd with only 11K followers, beat Rupert Murdoch with 480K followers?

    These pollsters must live a tiny world of their own, conjuring lists of lists of lists..............
  • TOPPING said:

    *DEFINITELY OFF TOPIC* (!)

    Bad day for my schoolboy memories with all these celebs trooping into court today.

    Tell me about it.

    CourtNewsUK ‏@CourtNewsUK 47m

    One of the Chuckle Brothers disrupted DLT as he groped a worker at Crawley Theatre, court hears
  • Tell me about it.

    CourtNewsUK ‏@CourtNewsUK 47m

    One of the Chuckle Brothers disrupted DLT as he groped a worker at Crawley Theatre, court hears

    There's a hell of a lot riding on these trials for the CPS, who appear to some to be applying Bracton's doctrine that nullum tempus occurrit regi to an extent unseen since the Quo Warranto proceedings under Edward I.
  • Tell me about it.

    CourtNewsUK ‏@CourtNewsUK 47m

    One of the Chuckle Brothers disrupted DLT as he groped a worker at Crawley Theatre, court hears

    There's a hell of a lot riding on these trials for the CPS, who appear to some to be applying Bracton's doctrine that nullum tempus occurrit regi to an extent unseen since the Quo Warranto proceedings under Edward I.
    There should be no statute of limitations when it comes to these types of crimes according to the court of public opinion.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    What a nice day. My accountant called to say I was getting an £8,600 tax rebate.

    Joining the elite now I see. Soon you'll be comparing tax avoidance notes with Jimmy Carr and the glitterati.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    Does this site make money? It's got thousands of views, but (fortunately) you don't see it plastered with adverts.

    I think it would be fair to say that it is a labour of love.

    Which means I get particularly tetchy when people are rude to me.

    Just saying...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    Hmmmm

    The Liberal Democrats have today sent an email to those on their approved Parliamentary candidates list.

    Titled 'strictly confidential', it states that "we need to be prepared for any eventuality" and the party has "decided to expedite the selection of a candidate" in Ribble Valley.

    The local party says it will consider all applications from approved candidates.

    Interviews "are planned for Saturday 18th January from 3pm" and will be held in Stockport. The members meeting and vote will then take place on Sunday 19th January at 2pm in Clitheroe.

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/91204/lib_dems_gear_up_in_ribble_valley.html

    On its current boundaries, there's an outside chance Labour could take Ribble Valley , in by-election conditions. UKIP should be eyeing it too.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    rcs1000 said:

    Does this site make money? It's got thousands of views, but (fortunately) you don't see it plastered with adverts.

    I think it would be fair to say that it is a labour of love.

    Which means I get particularly tetchy when people are rude to me.

    Just saying...
    Robert have there been any (disclosable) developments in your ebay dispute?
  • Congratulations, Mike!
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    Are we expecting Mme. Valérie Trierweiler, the First Mistress of France, to time her departure from hospital for the middle of the President's press conference?

    Will she have a staff and office at L'Élysée if she leaves it too late?

    Or will the Second Mistress, Julie Gayet, have already moved in?

    And what role is being played by the Corsican Connection?

    All to be revealed in our next episode of Citoyen Hollande at 3:30 pm.

    Tune in folks and have your popcorn ready.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Patrick said:

    Go tim! Go SeanT!

    So they, er, went....

    Shame tim ain't still around. He gave the Chancellor so much stick when inflation rose that I'm sure he would want to congratulate him on achieving 2%.

    Yeah, right...

  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    How are you influencing them ?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    And some of us have been roped in to pay for Mr. Smithson's tax refund with a requirement to hand over some more. Harrrrumph....
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    And some of us have been roped in to pay for Mr. Smithson's tax refund with a requirement to hand over some more. Harrrrumph....

    I suspect you've just made OGH's day that little bit sweeter ;)

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Spare a thought for the poor, younger generation (me). Probably going to sell several PS3 games to buy some more gruel...

    Just kidding. Well, about the gruel. I am thinking of selling a dozen or so PS3 games.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    TOPPING said:

    How did they calculate it?

    Heh heh. Is it because we're on it?

    Seriously Mike and Robert, congrats.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Does this site make money? It's got thousands of views, but (fortunately) you don't see it plastered with adverts.

    I think it would be fair to say that it is a labour of love.

    Which means I get particularly tetchy when people are rude to me.

    Just saying...
    Robert have there been any (disclosable) developments in your ebay dispute?
    My new plan - fwiw - is that when the buyer (finally) returns it to me, I will immediately sue him in the small claims court.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Danny Blanchflower - LEADING economist.

    If he's leading I'd hate to think where the others are.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The Standard has a story that M Hollande is MORE popular with women in the polls following the latest news reports

    Ladies........ladies!!!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Does this site make money? It's got thousands of views, but (fortunately) you don't see it plastered with adverts.

    I think it would be fair to say that it is a labour of love.

    Which means I get particularly tetchy when people are rude to me.

    Just saying...
    Robert have there been any (disclosable) developments in your ebay dispute?
    My new plan - fwiw - is that when the buyer (finally) returns it to me, I will immediately sue him in the small claims court.
    tyvm
  • taffys said:

    The Standard has a story that M Hollande is MORE popular with women in the polls following the latest news reports

    Ladies........ladies!!!

    Only in La France...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    You'd have thought that the Telegraph could have put an audio track with "At The Sign of the Swinging Cymbal" playing in the background and Harry Enfield doing his best Alan Fluff Freeman impression to unveil this.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Congrats, Mike.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    New youth unemployment numbers:

    Euro Area: 24.2%
    France: 25.6%
    Italy: 41.6%
    Spain: 57.7% (!)
    Portugal: 36.8%
    Ireland: 24.8%

    Euro crisis over!

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited January 2014
    Poor Francois, those telly cameras on Sky news are not broadcasting his press conference to gain a greater understanding of the French budget deficit.

    It could never happen here ^)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Francois sounding a bit like Dave here on "production" or perhaps Stalin...

    (and apologies for this:
    Journalist: are you having an affair with that actress?
    FH: I won't answer that question
    Journalist: Ok how's the economy doing?
    FH: yes I'm having an affair with that actress)
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    LOL.
    TOPPING said:

    Francois sounding a bit like Dave here on "production" or perhaps Stalin...

    (and apologies for this:
    Journalist: are you having an affair with that actress?
    FH: I won't answer that question
    Journalist: Ok how's the economy doing?
    FH: yes I'm having an affair with that actress)

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Congrats to OGH.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014

    Poor Francois, those telly cameras on Sky news are not broadcasting his press conference to gain a greater understanding of the French budget deficit.

    It could never happen here ^)

    I am surprised the press conference is being held in (or adjacent to) L'Élysée Palais.

    I was expecting it to have been broadcast from Le Moulin Rouge.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Update on my job situation guys!

    I start in April! :D

    Congratulations as well Mike. Pb.com is definitely a leading website for political trends. Anyone who has a serious book needs to at least read it if not participate.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    MaxPB said:

    Update on my job situation guys!

    I start in April! :D

    Congratulations as well Mike. Pb.com is definitely a leading website for political trends. Anyone who has a serious book needs to at least read it if not participate.

    Congratulations, Max.

    I hope it works out well for you.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Socrates said:

    New youth unemployment numbers:

    Euro Area: 24.2%
    France: 25.6%
    Italy: 41.6%
    Spain: 57.7% (!)
    Portugal: 36.8%
    Ireland: 24.8%

    Euro crisis over!

    Those numbers are - of course - horrendous.

    Let's take the big three and compare them to what they were on 31/1/1999, when the Euro was first created.

    France: 23.6%
    Italy: 30.4%
    Spain: 29.4%

    Horrendous also.

    I'm not saying the numbers are not truly awful (they are). But they were also pretty terrible before the Euro was created.

    Let me surprise you for a second: the proportion of people in Spain above the age of 18 in work is higher today than it was in 1994.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I was expecting it to have been broadcast from Le Moulin Rouge.

    Surely, the Hotel de Ville??? (rooms by the hour)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,190
    "the proportion of people in Spain above the age of 18 in work is higher today than it was in 1994"

    Must be because of fewer pensioner immigrants from the UK turning up to swamp their health service and refusing the integrate with the indigenous community.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    MaxPB said:

    Update on my job situation guys!

    I start in April! :D

    Congratulations as well Mike. Pb.com is definitely a leading website for political trends. Anyone who has a serious book needs to at least read it if not participate.

    Congratulations Max. Hope it goes well.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    "the proportion of people in Spain above the age of 18 in work is higher today than it was in 1994"

    Must be because of fewer pensioner immigrants from the UK turning up to swamp their health service and refusing the integrate with the indigenous community.

    Ummm... that's one possibility...

    As an aside, in Ireland (the most advanced of the reforming PIIGS), the youth unemployment rate has dropped 7% or so in the last year, from 32% to 25%. Portugal has seen its drop 5% (although it's still at an utterly horrendous level).
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ed, are you watching?

    BBCBreaking: French President #Hollande promises to slash 50bn euros (£41.5bn) in public spending in next 3 years http://t.co/AwDTMnMCZf
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Scott_P said:

    Ed, are you watching?

    BBCBreaking: French President #Hollande promises to slash 50bn euros (£41.5bn) in public spending in next 3 years http://t.co/AwDTMnMCZf

    In France government spending is 56% of GDP.

    In the UK it is 47%, in Spain it is 41%, in Ireland 42% and in the US it is 39%.

    France is - it is fair to say - the outlier. (Although we could probably do with reducing our spending a bit too.)
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Scott_P said:

    Ed, are you watching?

    BBCBreaking: French President #Hollande promises to slash 50bn euros (£41.5bn) in public spending in next 3 years http://t.co/AwDTMnMCZf

    I like this from the live BBC Feed from Paris:

    Jonathan Rugman, Channel 4 foreign affairs correspondent, tweets: "Hollande is talking about croissance (growth) rather than croissants. The foreign hacks want more on the croissants."

    But here we go ...
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I hope you enjoy your new job.
    MaxPB said:

    Update on my job situation guys!

    I start in April! :D

    Congratulations as well Mike. Pb.com is definitely a leading website for political trends. Anyone who has a serious book needs to at least read it if not participate.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited January 2014
    Socrates said:

    New youth unemployment numbers:

    Euro Area: 24.2%
    France: 25.6%
    Italy: 41.6%
    Spain: 57.7% (!)
    Portugal: 36.8%
    Ireland: 24.8%

    Euro crisis over!

    Hang on our youth unemployment is a shade over 20% last time I looked, so we have nothing to boast about.

    On the other hand youth unemployment in Germany is about 7.5%. One would hope that Cable and Gove are both trying to find out how Germany does it and bring the lessons back to the UK. However, I am not going to hold my breath. It probably doesn't involve increasing taxes or immigration so Cable won't be interested and it probably doesn't involve trying improving education in non-core subjects so Gove isn't likely to be fussed either, add to which Germany runs a selective system so our education establishment won't want to know.

    In the 1870s a parliamentary commission looked at education in Germany found how successful it was and suggested we replicate it here. We still haven't done it, though there was chance after the '44 Act that we might have got close.
  • Are Spanish unemployment rates skewed the same way USA ones are? The US stats ignore the plumettingrate of labour participation. So unemployed divided by workforce hasn't fallen that fast (they're at 7%+/- now). But the workforce as a % population has collapsed (people just give up and don't register on workforce stats). Factoring this back in to give a 'real' unemployment figure of unemployed divided by people of working age you get a figure over 11% for the USA. That's a huge difference!

    So how are Eurozone or UK stats compiled?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AveryLP said:

    "Hollande is talking about croissance (growth) rather than croissants.

    Has he mentioned croissover yet?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @HurstLlama

    Germany does it by being in a currency union with terrible economies, meaning they effectively have a currency that's hugely undervalued.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    rcs1000 said:

    "the proportion of people in Spain above the age of 18 in work is higher today than it was in 1994"

    Must be because of fewer pensioner immigrants from the UK turning up to swamp their health service and refusing the integrate with the indigenous community.

    Ummm... that's one possibility...

    As an aside, in Ireland (the most advanced of the reforming PIIGS), the youth unemployment rate has dropped 7% or so in the last year, from 32% to 25%. Portugal has seen its drop 5% (although it's still at an utterly horrendous level).
    I wonder how much emigration has contributed to the drop in both Ireland and Portugal.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    rcs1000 said:

    "the proportion of people in Spain above the age of 18 in work is higher today than it was in 1994"

    Must be because of fewer pensioner immigrants from the UK turning up to swamp their health service and refusing the integrate with the indigenous community.

    Ummm... that's one possibility...

    As an aside, in Ireland (the most advanced of the reforming PIIGS), the youth unemployment rate has dropped 7% or so in the last year, from 32% to 25%. Portugal has seen its drop 5% (although it's still at an utterly horrendous level).
    Ireland and Portugal have both done it through huge emigration of young people. It's not exactly a healthy economic strategy.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    edited January 2014
    Socrates said:

    @HurstLlama

    Germany does it by being in a currency union with terrible economies, meaning they effectively have a currency that's hugely undervalued.

    So presumably the Euro has been weaker than sterling since the GFC?

    Actually, the Euro has been significantly stronger than sterling, so that argument doesn't really hold.

    EDIT:

    Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that.

    If you count the GFC as starting in on 1/1/2008, then a Euro has strengthened from buying 67p to buying 83p, but in that period it's also bought a whole pound, so it's a little hard to hang your hat on it and say the Euro has been consistently strong.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    "the proportion of people in Spain above the age of 18 in work is higher today than it was in 1994"

    Must be because of fewer pensioner immigrants from the UK turning up to swamp their health service and refusing the integrate with the indigenous community.

    Ummm... that's one possibility...

    As an aside, in Ireland (the most advanced of the reforming PIIGS), the youth unemployment rate has dropped 7% or so in the last year, from 32% to 25%. Portugal has seen its drop 5% (although it's still at an utterly horrendous level).
    Ireland and Portugal have both done it through huge emigration of young people. It's not exactly a healthy economic strategy.
    That's simply not true Socrates.
    The absolute number of people EMPLOYED under the age of 25 has increased in both countries - quite substantially in the case of Ireland.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ed, are you watching?

    BBCBreaking: French President #Hollande promises to slash 50bn euros (£41.5bn) in public spending in next 3 years http://t.co/AwDTMnMCZf

    In France government spending is 56% of GDP.

    In the UK it is 47%, in Spain it is 41%, in Ireland 42% and in the US it is 39%.

    France is - it is fair to say - the outlier. (Although we could probably do with reducing our spending a bit too.)
    Robert, I assume your 47[.5]% figure includes Public Sector Gross Investment at 2.8% for 2012-13.

    Interesting to see the forecast path of government expenditure (TME) as a % of GDP over the next five years in the UK:
    2012-13  44.7%  ONS Outturn
    2013-14 43.7% OBR Forecast
    2014-15 42.7%
    2015-16 41.9%
    2016-17 40.7%
    2017-18 39.4%
    2018-19 38.2%
    Above figures net of PSGI. Based on current announced policies.

    This shows that the current costed policy of the UK government is to reduce government expenditure as a percentage of GDP in the next five years to a level which is below that of the US's current ratio.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    @HurstLlama

    Germany does it by being in a currency union with terrible economies, meaning they effectively have a currency that's hugely undervalued.

    So presumably the Euro has been weaker than sterling since the GFC?

    Actually, the Euro has been significantly stronger than sterling, so that argument doesn't really hold.
    Does Germany have a strong economy because of its superior technical and vocational education/training or does it a superior technical/vocational education because it has a strong economy? Whichever way round it is, it was true before the days of the Euro so I rather suspect that currency exchange rates have at best a marginal effect.
  • It is possible for employment to be up AND workforce to be down due to emigration or non-participation. Will have a big effect on reported unemployment rates.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Now Ed's worship of Hollande makes sense...

    @afneil: Is this what a Leveson-compliant press looks like?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Socrates said:

    New youth unemployment numbers:

    Euro Area: 24.2%
    France: 25.6%
    Italy: 41.6%
    Spain: 57.7% (!)
    Portugal: 36.8%
    Ireland: 24.8%

    Euro crisis over!

    Hang on our youth unemployment is a shade over 20% last time I looked, so we have nothing to boast about.

    On the other hand youth unemployment in Germany is about 7.5%. One would hope that Cable and Gove are both trying to find out how Germany does it and bring the lessons back to the UK. However, I am not going to hold my breath. It probably doesn't involve increasing taxes or immigration so Cable won't be interested and it probably doesn't involve trying improving education in non-core subjects so Gove isn't likely to be fussed either, add to which Germany runs a selective system so our education establishment won't want to know.

    In the 1870s a parliamentary commission looked at education in Germany found how successful it was and suggested we replicate it here. We still haven't done it, though there was chance after the '44 Act that we might have got close.
    I'm on my phone right now so I won't go into full detail. But essentially Germany has a very strong apprenticeship system that effectively locks immigrants out of semi-skilled positions. The Swiss do the same. There is literally an apprenticeship for every semi-skilled job. It makes the labour market very inflexible, but has the effect of protecting jobs for young people.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Patrick said:

    Are Spanish unemployment rates skewed the same way USA ones are? The US stats ignore the plumettingrate of labour participation. So unemployed divided by workforce hasn't fallen that fast (they're at 7%+/- now). But the workforce as a % population has collapsed (people just give up and don't register on workforce stats). Factoring this back in to give a 'real' unemployment figure of unemployed divided by people of working age you get a figure over 11% for the USA. That's a huge difference!

    So how are Eurozone or UK stats compiled?

    That is a very interesting question. I always use ILO statistics (which are consistently collected).

    The alternative, which I quite like, is to look at employment statistics, rather than unemployment ones. You can look at labour market participation (ie. employed people between 15 and 70). See: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.TOTL.SP.ZS
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    rcs1000 said:


    If you count the GFC as starting in on 1/1/2008, then a Euro has strengthened from buying 67p to buying 83p, but in that period it's also bought a whole pound, so it's a little hard to hang your hat on it and say the Euro has been consistently strong.

    Technically a high of 98.035p according to my Bloomberg (30th Dec 2008). (I had to go and check as I was sure that it had never actually hit parity, which your understandably lax wording implied)
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    France produces a very strange and unhelpful set of unemployment statistics, as well.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    rcs1000 said:


    The absolute number of people EMPLOYED under the age of 25 has increased in both countries - quite substantially in the case of Ireland.

    Are you sure? I make employment for <25s in Ireland down over 40% in absolute numbers in Ireland since the pre-crisis peak but I could have made a mistake somewhere.
  • rcs1000

    I believe the ILO stats are on the '7%' basis rather than the '11%' basis (but happy to be corrected). Which means real unemployment is worse in Euroland than even the terrible published stats. MAybe someone has workforce participation stats and could produce a merged 'real' rate.

    Of course one thing that is endemic is the move into the black economy across Euroland. Try getting a non-handwritten receipt for many things in Greece or Spain. There is a huge parallel economy (incl the criminal world) that is not part of any official statistics. This is likely to be alot healthier than the official world and may gove some support to demand in the real world (even illegals and crims need to eat and fill up their cars).

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I wish more British politicians had affairs. If they were kept busy in the bedroom, perhaps they wouldn't have time to come up with so many hare-brained ideas.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    Scott_P said:

    Ed, are you watching?

    BBCBreaking: French President #Hollande promises to slash 50bn euros (£41.5bn) in public spending in next 3 years http://t.co/AwDTMnMCZf

    Perhaps Ed should take a leaf out of Hollande's book and have an affair with an actress. It'd gain him press conference coverage on BBC and Sky, and also appeal to female voters.

    So which British actresses do we have? Glenda Jackson might be a bit too left-wing for him (and besides, imagine Hodge's columns after that!)

    He really needs to get down with his core voter. So may I suggest the cig-smoking, pint-swilling Kathy Burke?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Neil said:

    rcs1000 said:


    The absolute number of people EMPLOYED under the age of 25 has increased in both countries - quite substantially in the case of Ireland.

    Are you sure? I make employment for <25s in Ireland down over 40% in absolute numbers in Ireland since the pre-crisis peak but I could have made a mistake somewhere.</p>
    You are absolutely right compared to the pre-crisis peak. I am pointing out that over the last year there has been about (reading off the chart rather than working it out exactly) about a 10% increase in the absolute number of employed Irish people under the age of 25.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    antifrank said:

    I wish more British politicians had affairs. If they were kept busy in the bedroom, perhaps they wouldn't have time to come up with so many hare-brained ideas.

    No., Just no.

    Imagine the hare-brained ideas they'd come up with about bedrooms ...
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    antifrank said:

    I wish more British politicians had affairs. If they were kept busy in the bedroom, perhaps they wouldn't have time to come up with so many hare-brained ideas.

    Your theory falls apart in two words:

    John, and Prescott.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    rcs1000 said:

    Neil said:

    rcs1000 said:


    The absolute number of people EMPLOYED under the age of 25 has increased in both countries - quite substantially in the case of Ireland.

    Are you sure? I make employment for <25s in Ireland down over 40% in absolute numbers in Ireland since the pre-crisis peak but I could have made a mistake somewhere.</p>
    You are absolutely right compared to the pre-crisis peak. I am pointing out that over the last year there has been about (reading off the chart rather than working it out exactly) about a 10% increase in the absolute number of employed Irish people under the age of 25.
    Even over the last year (up to 2013Q3 which is what I can see CSO data for) I am seeing a 4% reduction in the number (about 10k). And Ireland is losing about 40k people from this age group through emigration.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Patrick said:

    rcs1000

    I believe the ILO stats are on the '7%' basis rather than the '11%' basis (but happy to be corrected). Which means real unemployment is worse in Euroland than even the terrible published stats. MAybe someone has workforce participation stats and could produce a merged 'real' rate.

    Of course one thing that is endemic is the move into the black economy across Euroland. Try getting a non-handwritten receipt for many things in Greece or Spain. There is a huge parallel economy (incl the criminal world) that is not part of any official statistics. This is likely to be alot healthier than the official world and may gove some support to demand in the real world (even illegals and crims need to eat and fill up their cars).

    I agree completely. And that's been the case for some time.

    Probably a positive for my bitcoin position...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Neil said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Neil said:

    rcs1000 said:


    The absolute number of people EMPLOYED under the age of 25 has increased in both countries - quite substantially in the case of Ireland.

    Are you sure? I make employment for <25s in Ireland down over 40% in absolute numbers in Ireland since the pre-crisis peak but I could have made a mistake somewhere.</p>
    You are absolutely right compared to the pre-crisis peak. I am pointing out that over the last year there has been about (reading off the chart rather than working it out exactly) about a 10% increase in the absolute number of employed Irish people under the age of 25.
    Even over the last year (up to 2013Q3 which is what I can see CSO data for) I am seeing a 4% reduction in the number (about 10k). And Ireland is losing about 40k people from this age group through emigration.
    What's your email? I will send you the chart from Bloomberg
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @rcs100

    I am using the tables that the CSO website allows users to create:

    http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=QNQ24

    (Why is the CSO website 100 times more user friendly than the ONS one? Should we pay them to revamp the monstrosity that UK stats users have to wade through?)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    rcs1000 said:

    Neil said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Neil said:

    rcs1000 said:


    The absolute number of people EMPLOYED under the age of 25 has increased in both countries - quite substantially in the case of Ireland.

    Are you sure? I make employment for <25s in Ireland down over 40% in absolute numbers in Ireland since the pre-crisis peak but I could have made a mistake somewhere.</p>
    You are absolutely right compared to the pre-crisis peak. I am pointing out that over the last year there has been about (reading off the chart rather than working it out exactly) about a 10% increase in the absolute number of employed Irish people under the age of 25.
    Even over the last year (up to 2013Q3 which is what I can see CSO data for) I am seeing a 4% reduction in the number (about 10k). And Ireland is losing about 40k people from this age group through emigration.
    What's your email? I will send you the chart from Bloomberg
    Ah, my data is December estimate compared to previous December, while you are comparing September with the previous September...
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    rcs1000 said:



    I agree completely. And that's been the case for some time.

    Probably a positive for my bitcoin position...

    Somewhat OT, but can I ask what Exchange you use (or would recommend) for Bitcoin? Also, do you see any other Digital Currencies as being worth looking at?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Neil said:

    @rcs100

    I am using the tables that the CSO website allows users to create:

    http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=QNQ24

    (Why is the CSO website 100 times more user friendly than the ONS one? Should we pay them to revamp the monstrosity that UK stats users have to wade through?)

    I'm pulling my numbers off Bloomberg. I'm assuming they are accurate, but they may (of course) be completely wrong...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited January 2014
    @rcs

    Care to tell me what has happened to the denominator (i.e the number of under 25s seeking work) in both countries? Both over the last year, and in previous years?

    Here's the Irish success in one graph:

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2014/01/13/opinion/011314krugman3/011314krugman3-blog480.png

    As for Germany and currency, are you seriously saying that, should the Eurozone fall apart, the new German currency wouldn't appreciate significantly?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    Neil said:

    @rcs100

    I am using the tables that the CSO website allows users to create:

    http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=QNQ24

    (Why is the CSO website 100 times more user friendly than the ONS one? Should we pay them to revamp the monstrosity that UK stats users have to wade through?)

    The ONS site was excellent until around mid 2007, when it received a mandate from the new Prime Minister to obscure and hide rather than to explain and reveal.

    There were higher priorities on George's 'To Do' list when he assumed office in 2010 but, as with most other problems he inherited, we just need to be patient and the ONS site problems will be solved in due course.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    By the way rcs, here are the number of 15-24 year olds in the work force for Ireland.

    2007 Q3: 393,300
    2013 Q3: 227,400

    Like I said, emigration.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Congratulations OGH. Surely Nick will have to include you in the next bunch of LibDem working peers :)
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited January 2014
    In comments that are beyond satire, Hollande is quoted as saying that he'll provide an 'update' on the status of the first lady by 11 February.

    What's he going to do in the meantime, have a final eliminator sh*g-off??
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Socrates said:

    By the way rcs, here are the number of 15-24 year olds in the work force for Ireland.

    2007 Q3: 393,300
    2013 Q3: 227,400

    Like I said, emigration.

    My 21 year old Godson hopes to move from Dublin to England later this year when he finishes his apprenticeship as a painter. His 29 year old brother left Ireland 5 years ago to work in London. Almost none of their friends have remained in Ireland. They are all working and living in England, Australia or the USA.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    I wish more British politicians had affairs. If they were kept busy in the bedroom, perhaps they wouldn't have time to come up with so many hare-brained ideas.

    Your theory falls apart in two words:

    John, and Prescott.
    I don't recall him ever having any ideas.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited January 2014
    re those interested in PR^2...

    Here's my draft paper, including worked example for Wales, 2010.
    http://www.titanictown.plus.com/PR-Squared[Draft].doc
  • antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    I wish more British politicians had affairs. If they were kept busy in the bedroom, perhaps they wouldn't have time to come up with so many hare-brained ideas.

    Your theory falls apart in two words:

    John, and Prescott.
    I don't recall him ever having any ideas.
    Wasn't the Pathfinder scheme where they bulldozed loads of perfectly good houses to prop up house prices one of his?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    I wish more British politicians had affairs. If they were kept busy in the bedroom, perhaps they wouldn't have time to come up with so many hare-brained ideas.

    Your theory falls apart in two words:

    John, and Prescott.
    I don't recall him ever having any ideas.
    Oh, he did.

    Who can remember the hideousness of Pathfinder, which Labour and Miliband seem to have whitewashed from their memory whenever they talk about housing?

    How in God's name did Prescott ever become DPM? I mean, can anyone actually defend the guy?
This discussion has been closed.