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Will Gavin Williamson still be in the cabinet on 31/12/2021? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 5 in General
imageWill Gavin Williamson still be in the cabinet on 31/12/2021? – politicalbetting.com

Gavin Williamson is here to stay?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Joe Root the Gavin Williamson of cricket captains.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I like about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5

    Joe Root the Gavin Williamson of cricket captains.

    Gavin Williamson is really bad, but he isn't that bad.....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 95,999
    edited September 5

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I think about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    He's another one who read PPE at the dump and self confessed choker.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,714

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I think about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    His podcast, Sideways, is excellent.
  • Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I think about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    He's another one who read PPE at the dump.
    In his case, I think it is a despite that...
  • 1 Johnstone
    2 James
    6 Mings
    5 Coady
    3 Trippier
    7 Bellingham
    8 Henderson
    4 Alexander-Arnold
    10 Lingard
    9 Bamford
    11 Saka

    BBC think TAA will play in midfield.
  • Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I think about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    He's another one who read PPE at the dump.
    In his case, I think it is a despite that...
    He's the son of a Pakistani immigrant as well, the black marks against him just keep adding up.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 11,406
    edited September 5
    FPT

    Just in case anyone needs the summary:

    People receive three kinds of services:

    1. Nursing care, be that in your own home, in specially designed accommodation, in care homes, nursing homes, or hospital;
    2. Social care;
    3. Accommodation.

    There are five general sources of funding:

    1. NHS (DHSC)
    2. Benefits (DWP)
    3. Local authorities (DCHLG/local tax)
    4. The individual.
    5. Charity and voluntary sectors (inc. hospices)

    The current system:

    1. The NHS funds nursing care on a needs-based system.

    This is a highly debatable statement. You are referring to NHS Continuing Care.

    NHS Continuing Care is not an easy process to go through or to understand.

    What is certainly true, is that many, many dementia patients are not assessed as eligible for NHS Continuing Care.

    My experience on behalf of a family member is that you need skilful, educated and articulate people willing to argue repeatedly on your behalf, to prepare documents and appeals.

    If you don't have family members on the spot to argue for you (eligibility is re-appraised yearly), then you have little or no chance.
    I don't know if you quoted the right bit, but NHS Continuing Healthcare is point 2, that is, people with complex needs where the NHS is being asked to fund something that isn't 'just' nursing care. The NHS funds nursing care in nursing homes directly to the accommodation provider.

    (I should of course pointed out this is in England albeit I think the above is also correct for Wales. )



  • Joe Root the Gavin Williamson of cricket captains.

    Gavin Williamson is really bad, but he isn't that bad.....
    I don't know, I switch over to the grand prix for the entirety of the afternoon and when I switched back dearie me.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 19,632
    What I want to know is, what was it that David Cameron saw in Gavin Williamson? He was his PPS for three years after all.
  • tlg86 said:

    What I want to know is, what was it that David Cameron saw in Gavin Williamson? He was his PPS for three years after all.

    I suspect Dave's view was that's where Williamson could do the least damage.

    PPS to the PM is a sinecure.
  • tlg86 said:

    What I want to know is, what was it that David Cameron saw in Gavin Williamson? He was his PPS for three years after all.

    Given recent events, Cameron's judgement has rather been called into question (remember he also hired Andy Coulson).
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,119

    FPT

    Just in case anyone needs the summary:

    People receive three kinds of services:

    1. Nursing care, be that in your own home, in specially designed accommodation, in care homes, nursing homes, or hospital;
    2. Social care;
    3. Accommodation.

    There are five general sources of funding:

    1. NHS (DHSC)
    2. Benefits (DWP)
    3. Local authorities (DCHLG/local tax)
    4. The individual.
    5. Charity and voluntary sectors (inc. hospices)

    The current system:

    1. The NHS funds nursing care on a needs-based system.

    This is a highly debatable statement. You are referring to NHS Continuing Care.

    NHS Continuing Care is not an easy process to go through or to understand.

    What is certainly true, is that many, many dementia patients are not assessed as eligible for NHS Continuing Care.

    My experience on behalf of a family member is that you need skilful, educated and articulate people willing to argue repeatedly on your behalf, to prepare documents and appeals.

    If you don't have family members on the spot to argue for you (eligibility is re-appraised yearly), then you have little or no chance.
    I don't know if you quoted the right bit, but NHS Continuing Healthcare is point 2, that is, people with complex needs where the NHS is being asked to fund something that isn't 'just' nursing care. The NHS funds nursing care in nursing homes directly to the accommodation provider.

    (I should of course pointed out this is in England albeit I think the above is also correct for Wales. )



    NHS CHC is extremely difficult to secure and requires the patient to pass a 'test' demonstrating several incapacities. This maybe because the cost to the NHS if providing this care ie paying all the care home fees is a lot per patient.
  • Two minutes of Boris's economy with the truth. Is he the Gavin Williamson of Prime Ministers?
    https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1434089915038457860
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,473
    edited September 5
    I see Lindsay Hoyle is clamping down on the wearing of casual dress in the Commons chamber. I don't disagree with that myself - though do note that Denis Healey was wearing trainers there in his last Parliament - ie the early 1990s.
  • I knew it was coming but still a shocker to hear that Sarah Harding has died.

    Saw Girls Aloud live many many times.

    Their version of Call Me Maybe on their final tour was amazing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,398
    FPT - Tip. If anyone recommends you should read Robin Diangelo, Afua Hirsch, Renni Eddo-Lodge, Akala, or June Sarpong your antenna should immediately go up. It's a massive warning sign.

    Suggesting those texts should be the core curriculum to learn about race is like suggesting you should read Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Vladimir Lenin, John Stuart Mill and Noam Chomsky as your core curriculum to learn about economics.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,066
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Cabinet in open dissent over PM's plans to fund social care... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1434471240333500419

    How many more times can they kick social care policy announcement into touch? The current policy of Blair’s already out there is Dementia Tax don’t forget. The vote loser is do nothing.

    Has HY commented whether he can sell this on the doorstep?
    HY has time now to get out on the doorstep. I wonder if he will try to come back.
    @HYUFD is posting again if that is your query
    HY, welcome back, I have always read and learnt from your posts, 99% honest Joe answers, informed too.

    What it harder sell on doorstep HY - extra money for NHS to clear COVID backlogs, and stop loved ones waiting years in pain, gall stones etc, as any tax rise will be sold, because of course when promises were made COVID and the chaos it’s caused to waiting for care was never imagined, to stick to out of date promise and leave people in pain for years and years is actually easier to sell?

    Or is the do nothing yet again on Social Care, kick it in the long grass, leave the status quo with all its hideous faults the less damaging of the Key promises broken? Really?
    Maybe those in Tory party not sure about what Rishi, Javid and BoJo doing just not thought the bigger picture.
  • I don't understand England tactics to tail enders.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 3,386
    justin124 said:

    I see Lindsay Hoyle is clamping down on the wearing of casual dress in the Commons chamber. I don't disagree with that myself - though do note that Denis Healey was wearing trainers there in his last Parliament - ie the early 1990s.

    While I agree on the need for standards, in the modern age I think there is a discrepancy about smart male vs female attire. Time for the end of the tie, for starters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5
    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England. And that is before a lot of the super spreaders go back to school / they start to show up in the figures.
  • TresTres Posts: 545
    justin124 said:

    I see Lindsay Hoyle is clamping down on the wearing of casual dress in the Commons chamber. I don't disagree with that myself - though do note that Denis Healey was wearing trainers there in his last Parliament - ie the early 1990s.

    Another institution ripe for dragging kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,119

    I knew it was coming but still a shocker to hear that Sarah Harding has died.

    Saw Girls Aloud live many many times.

    Their version of Call Me Maybe on their final tour was amazing.

    Yes indeed absolutely dreadful news. Very sad.
  • 37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    Murder Tuesday it is then.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 3,386

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    England cases pretty flat I’d say. This week will be interesting with the schools back and thus increased lft usage.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,119

    I don't understand England tactics to tail enders.

    England are well known for the inability to wrap up the tail. It has cost us many test matches.

    Not this one though, the game has been long gone! 😠
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    England cases pretty flat I’d say. This week will be interesting with the schools back and thus increased lft usage.
    Past 3 days, they have been up ~5k week on week each day.

    Cases are going to go very high in the next month. For most of us, that is fine, I am personally not overly concerned, but I think if I was somebody who was isolating back last year, I would be very careful until they get a booster.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,398

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I like about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    That's because he's a free-thinking intelligent bloke who is willing to be influenced and is thus more influential himself - he's far from trying to push an ideology on anyone and, indeed, has vociferously criticised many aspects of Wokeness in the past. I'm not even convinced he's particularly left-wing, despite having stood as a Labour candidate in the past.

    When he talks about his experiences I listen, because I know he has no hidden agenda and his intentions are wholly positive.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 3,386

    I don't understand England tactics to tail enders.

    England are well known for the inability to wrap up the tail. It has cost us many test matches.

    Not this one though, the game has been long gone! 😠
    I’ll be amazed if we’re are less 4 down at close.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 95,999
    edited September 5
    Two years ago I saw England successfully chase down 359.

    We can do this.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,215

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I like about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    That's because he's a free-thinking intelligent bloke who is willing to be influenced and is thus more influential himself - he's far from trying to push an ideology on anyone and, indeed, has vociferously criticised many aspects of Wokeness in the past. I'm not even convinced he's particularly left-wing, despite having stood as a Labour candidate in the past.

    When he talks about his experiences I listen, because I know he has no hidden agenda and his intentions are wholly positive.
    So if he started talking about CRT would you be receptive to it?

    Note I still don't really know what CRT is.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 3,386

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    England cases pretty flat I’d say. This week will be interesting with the schools back and thus increased lft usage.
    Past 3 days, they have been up ~5k week on week each day.

    Cases are going to go very high in the next month. For most of us, that is fine, but I think if I was somebody who was isolating back last year, I would be very careful until they get a booster.
    Beware BH effects, but yes it may be the schools testing already creeping in.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 19,632

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    Murder Tuesday it is then.
    So? I'm sure this piece by Harris will resonate but he's wide of the mark. Us English know that the vaccines work (and if they don't for you, bad luck) and that's that. If the Welsh and Scots think their politicians are better, good for them. But this is over and now the next battle (public finances) is about to begin.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/05/boris-johnson-incompetence-uk-westminster-normality
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 3,386

    Two years ago I saw England successfully chase down 359 to win.

    We can do this.

    We will NOT do this. Not with this team.
  • Two years ago I saw England successfully chase down 359 to win.

    We can do this.

    A certain Mr B Stokes unfortunately isn't playing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,013

    FPT - Tip. If anyone recommends you should read Robin Diangelo, Afua Hirsch, Renni Eddo-Lodge, Akala, or June Sarpong your antenna should immediately go up. It's a massive warning sign.

    Suggesting those texts should be the core curriculum to learn about race is like suggesting you should read Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Vladimir Lenin, John Stuart Mill and Noam Chomsky as your core curriculum to learn about economics.

    Ignorance is Strength.

    All of those are worth reading, or at least the 2/3 on both lists that I have read. I have also read the works of a number of white supremacists (after all, such views were commonplace and mainstream in my lifetime) and of libertarian and free market theorists. It is useful to read works you disagree with. It helps shape your own arguments and sharpens your thinking, and occasionally completely changes your opinion of something.
  • tlg86 said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    Murder Tuesday it is then.
    So? I'm sure this piece by Harris will resonate but he's wide of the mark. Us English know that the vaccines work (and if they don't for you, bad luck) and that's that. If the Welsh and Scots think their politicians are better, good for them. But this is over and now the next battle (public finances) is about to begin.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/05/boris-johnson-incompetence-uk-westminster-normality
    I'm expecting our media to go OTT on case numbers in the next fortnight with the seemingly inevitable school based infections.

    They don't do nuance.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,022
    edited September 5
    England need 368 to win in 126 overs. Run rate required = 2.92.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/55023933
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 5,942

    FPT

    Just in case anyone needs the summary:

    People receive three kinds of services:

    1. Nursing care, be that in your own home, in specially designed accommodation, in care homes, nursing homes, or hospital;
    2. Social care;
    3. Accommodation.

    There are five general sources of funding:

    1. NHS (DHSC)
    2. Benefits (DWP)
    3. Local authorities (DCHLG/local tax)
    4. The individual.
    5. Charity and voluntary sectors (inc. hospices)

    The current system:

    1. The NHS funds nursing care on a needs-based system.

    so

    This is a highly debatable statement. You are referring to NHS Continuing Care.

    NHS Continuing Care is not an easy process to go through or to understand.

    What is certainly true, is that many, many dementia patients are not assessed as eligible for NHS Continuing Care.

    My experience on behalf of a family member is that you need skilful, educated and articulate people willing to argue repeatedly on your behalf, to prepare documents and appeals.

    If you don't have family members on the spot to argue for you (eligibility is re-appraised yearly), then you have little or no chance.
    I don't know if you quoted the right bit, but NHS Continuing Healthcare is point 2, that is, people with complex needs where the NHS is being asked to fund something that isn't 'just' nursing care. The NHS funds nursing care in nursing homes directly to the accommodation provider.

    (I should of course pointed out this is in England albeit I think the above is also correct for Wales. )

    The problem is that, when a patient has complex needs, it is not clear where "nursing care" ends and "social care" begins.

    If you need care because you are doubly incontinent because of late-stage Parkinson's, is that "nursing care" or "social care"?

    You need the care because you are unlucky to have a very cruel disease -- but the NHS will normally classify it as social care, so you will have to pay, if you have resources.

    NHS Continuing Care comes from the NHS budget, I think. In which case, I assumed it was under point 1.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5

    tlg86 said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    Murder Tuesday it is then.
    So? I'm sure this piece by Harris will resonate but he's wide of the mark. Us English know that the vaccines work (and if they don't for you, bad luck) and that's that. If the Welsh and Scots think their politicians are better, good for them. But this is over and now the next battle (public finances) is about to begin.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/05/boris-johnson-incompetence-uk-westminster-normality
    I'm expecting our media to go OTT on case numbers in the next fortnight with the seemingly inevitable school based infections.

    They don't do nuance.
    No no no, you have it all wrong, Prof Peston is very very keen on science and well read and always ahead of the government ministers and their experts.....so he will be very careful to keep the situation in perspective.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 19,632

    tlg86 said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    Murder Tuesday it is then.
    So? I'm sure this piece by Harris will resonate but he's wide of the mark. Us English know that the vaccines work (and if they don't for you, bad luck) and that's that. If the Welsh and Scots think their politicians are better, good for them. But this is over and now the next battle (public finances) is about to begin.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/05/boris-johnson-incompetence-uk-westminster-normality
    I'm expecting our media to go OTT on case numbers in the next fortnight with the seemingly inevitable school based infections.

    They don't do nuance.
    Oh I'm sure it'll be a pain for the government. But it's done. There's no way people will respect any attempt to impose another lockdown (and it would need to be more severe than anything we've had before for it to make much difference).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,013
    edited September 5

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    England cases pretty flat I’d say. This week will be interesting with the schools back and thus increased lft usage.
    Not so much flat as showing the dip last week was a fluctuation rather than a real decline in numbers. I expect cases to go up in September, and think it quite possible that we will grind through to the winter on similar numbers. Let's hope that I am right in my hunch that there won't be a big effect of vaccine fade. I was wrong last year, I didn't expect much of a second wave.

    This is the graph of Israeli cases. The dark green is the fully vaccinated, the blue the unvaccinated:


  • I knew it was coming but still a shocker to hear that Sarah Harding has died.

    Saw Girls Aloud live many many times.

    Their version of Call Me Maybe on their final tour was amazing.

    You can relive your lost, glorious past on Youtube, where GA's Call Me Maybe from the 2013 tour has been uploaded many times.
  • TresTres Posts: 545

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I like about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    That's because he's a free-thinking intelligent bloke who is willing to be influenced and is thus more influential himself - he's far from trying to push an ideology on anyone and, indeed, has vociferously criticised many aspects of Wokeness in the past. I'm not even convinced he's particularly left-wing, despite having stood as a Labour candidate in the past.

    When he talks about his experiences I listen, because I know he has no hidden agenda and his intentions are wholly positive.
    So if he started talking about CRT would you be receptive to it?

    Note I still don't really know what CRT is.
    CRT brings out symptoms of hot flushes, sweats and mood swings in middle age, it’s the male equivalent of the menopause.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,398

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I like about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    That's because he's a free-thinking intelligent bloke who is willing to be influenced and is thus more influential himself - he's far from trying to push an ideology on anyone and, indeed, has vociferously criticised many aspects of Wokeness in the past. I'm not even convinced he's particularly left-wing, despite having stood as a Labour candidate in the past.

    When he talks about his experiences I listen, because I know he has no hidden agenda and his intentions are wholly positive.
    So if he started talking about CRT would you be receptive to it?

    Note I still don't really know what CRT is.
    He has spoken about it, and to criticise it.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pit-my-truth-against-your-truth-and-its-a-terrifying-race-to-the-bottom-z9898s8xd

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/what-its-like-to-be-an-anti-racist-accused-of-racism-t2x59t6j2

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,398
    Foxy said:

    FPT - Tip. If anyone recommends you should read Robin Diangelo, Afua Hirsch, Renni Eddo-Lodge, Akala, or June Sarpong your antenna should immediately go up. It's a massive warning sign.

    Suggesting those texts should be the core curriculum to learn about race is like suggesting you should read Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Vladimir Lenin, John Stuart Mill and Noam Chomsky as your core curriculum to learn about economics.

    Ignorance is Strength.

    All of those are worth reading, or at least the 2/3 on both lists that I have read. I have also read the works of a number of white supremacists (after all, such views were commonplace and mainstream in my lifetime) and of libertarian and free market theorists. It is useful to read works you disagree with. It helps shape your own arguments and sharpens your thinking, and occasionally completely changes your opinion of something.
    I don't disagree with that, and have read Chomsky and Marx too.

    But, I disagree with a selective list being presented to you as the sole authority on a subject - anyone genuinely interested in education should be presenting to you a wide range of different texts so you can make up your own mind.
  • Foxy said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    England cases pretty flat I’d say. This week will be interesting with the schools back and thus increased lft usage.
    Not so much flat as showing the dip last week was a fluctuation rather than a real decline in numbers. I expect cases to go up in September, and think it quite possible that we will grind through to the winter on similar numbers. Let's hope that I am right in my hunch that there won't be a big effect of vaccine fade. I was wrong last year, I didn't expect much of a second wave.

    This is the graph of Israeli cases. The dark green is the fully vaccinated, the blue the unvaccinated:


    Is that classing "fully vaccinated" as 3 doses?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,215

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I like about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    That's because he's a free-thinking intelligent bloke who is willing to be influenced and is thus more influential himself - he's far from trying to push an ideology on anyone and, indeed, has vociferously criticised many aspects of Wokeness in the past. I'm not even convinced he's particularly left-wing, despite having stood as a Labour candidate in the past.

    When he talks about his experiences I listen, because I know he has no hidden agenda and his intentions are wholly positive.
    So if he started talking about CRT would you be receptive to it?

    Note I still don't really know what CRT is.
    He has spoken about it, and to criticise it.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pit-my-truth-against-your-truth-and-its-a-terrifying-race-to-the-bottom-z9898s8xd

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/what-its-like-to-be-an-anti-racist-accused-of-racism-t2x59t6j2

    Yeah, but that wasn't my point.

    My intention was to highlight the difference between liking someone because you like what they say and liking someone even if you sometimes don't like what they say.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 2,323
    Shout out to all the smart cookies who knew vaccine passports were just a bluff to increase take up. Overton window keeps moving 1 step at a time but everyone is far too clever and ironically detatched to ever worry about the next step taken.
  • tlg86 said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    Murder Tuesday it is then.
    So? I'm sure this piece by Harris will resonate but he's wide of the mark. Us English know that the vaccines work (and if they don't for you, bad luck) and that's that. If the Welsh and Scots think their politicians are better, good for them. But this is over and now the next battle (public finances) is about to begin.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/05/boris-johnson-incompetence-uk-westminster-normality
    I'm expecting our media to go OTT on case numbers in the next fortnight with the seemingly inevitable school based infections.

    They don't do nuance.
    No no no, you have it all wrong, Prof Peston is very very keen on science and well read and always ahead of the government ministers and their experts.....so he will be very careful to keep the situation in perspective.
    His medical and science expertise is only matched by his expertise on photographs, particularly photographs involving mirrors.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,013
    edited September 5

    Foxy said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    England cases pretty flat I’d say. This week will be interesting with the schools back and thus increased lft usage.
    Not so much flat as showing the dip last week was a fluctuation rather than a real decline in numbers. I expect cases to go up in September, and think it quite possible that we will grind through to the winter on similar numbers. Let's hope that I am right in my hunch that there won't be a big effect of vaccine fade. I was wrong last year, I didn't expect much of a second wave.

    This is the graph of Israeli cases. The dark green is the fully vaccinated, the blue the unvaccinated:


    Is that classing "fully vaccinated" as 3 doses?
    I don't think so, but there isn't any evidence of fade in the light green partially vaxxed either.

    Apologies, the graph is admissions with severe illness, not cases.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 19,632
    maaarsh said:

    Shout out to all the smart cookies who knew vaccine passports were just a bluff to increase take up. Overton window keeps moving 1 step at a time but everyone is far too clever and ironically detatched to ever worry about the next step taken.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58452953

    Asked about vaccine passports, Mr Zahawi referred to Premier League football clubs asking some fans to show proof they have been jabbed, which allowed stadiums to reopen to capacity crowds last month.

    However, only a small number of clubs have made Covid-19 checks a mandatory condition of entry.


    I heard him mention the Premier League, and I've not seen anyone checking so far. I'm also not sure which clubs have made it mandatory. I was under the impression that they can't make it mandatory for the fans if it's not also mandatory for the staff including the players.

    But, yes, I think it's thoroughly appalling.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5

    tlg86 said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    Murder Tuesday it is then.
    So? I'm sure this piece by Harris will resonate but he's wide of the mark. Us English know that the vaccines work (and if they don't for you, bad luck) and that's that. If the Welsh and Scots think their politicians are better, good for them. But this is over and now the next battle (public finances) is about to begin.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/05/boris-johnson-incompetence-uk-westminster-normality
    I'm expecting our media to go OTT on case numbers in the next fortnight with the seemingly inevitable school based infections.

    They don't do nuance.
    No no no, you have it all wrong, Prof Peston is very very keen on science and well read and always ahead of the government ministers and their experts.....so he will be very careful to keep the situation in perspective.
    His medical and science expertise is only matched by his expertise on photographs, particularly photographs involving mirrors.
    The utter arse had the absolute cheek to be on the radio this week saying well I don't ask technical questions at the briefings, because the government ministers and their experts don't really understand them.

    How many times is it now that JVT has had to correct his dangerous bullshit?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,022

    I don't understand England tactics to tail enders.

    England are well known for the inability to wrap up the tail. It has cost us many test matches.

    Not this one though, the game has been long gone! 😠
    Betfair Exchange odds:

    England 5.5
    India 1.8
    Draw 3.6

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/cricket/market/1.186995118
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5
    Foxy said:


    Foxy said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    England cases pretty flat I’d say. This week will be interesting with the schools back and thus increased lft usage.
    Not so much flat as showing the dip last week was a fluctuation rather than a real decline in numbers. I expect cases to go up in September, and think it quite possible that we will grind through to the winter on similar numbers. Let's hope that I am right in my hunch that there won't be a big effect of vaccine fade. I was wrong last year, I didn't expect much of a second wave.

    This is the graph of Israeli cases. The dark green is the fully vaccinated, the blue the unvaccinated:


    Is that classing "fully vaccinated" as 3 doses?
    I don't think so, but there isn't any evidence of fade in the light green partially vaxxed either.

    Apologies, the graph is admissions with severe illness, not cases.
    I was going to say, I was fairly certain cases among those with two shots was fairly high. And that it is those that had 3 shots, where it has dropped off.

    They are now talking about a 4th shot early next year.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 23,883

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I like about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    Like Begbie in Trainspotting.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,013
    tlg86 said:

    maaarsh said:

    Shout out to all the smart cookies who knew vaccine passports were just a bluff to increase take up. Overton window keeps moving 1 step at a time but everyone is far too clever and ironically detatched to ever worry about the next step taken.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58452953

    Asked about vaccine passports, Mr Zahawi referred to Premier League football clubs asking some fans to show proof they have been jabbed, which allowed stadiums to reopen to capacity crowds last month.

    However, only a small number of clubs have made Covid-19 checks a mandatory condition of entry.


    I heard him mention the Premier League, and I've not seen anyone checking so far. I'm also not sure which clubs have made it mandatory. I was under the impression that they can't make it mandatory for the fans if it's not also mandatory for the staff including the players.

    But, yes, I think it's thoroughly appalling.
    I had an email from LCFC today. For Saturdays match vs MCFC we will be spotchecked for evidence of negative LFT or vaccination.

    https://www.lcfc.com/news/2242997/covid-19-spot-checks-to-be-in-place-for-man-city
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    maaarsh said:

    Shout out to all the smart cookies who knew vaccine passports were just a bluff to increase take up. Overton window keeps moving 1 step at a time but everyone is far too clever and ironically detatched to ever worry about the next step taken.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58452953

    Asked about vaccine passports, Mr Zahawi referred to Premier League football clubs asking some fans to show proof they have been jabbed, which allowed stadiums to reopen to capacity crowds last month.

    However, only a small number of clubs have made Covid-19 checks a mandatory condition of entry.


    I heard him mention the Premier League, and I've not seen anyone checking so far. I'm also not sure which clubs have made it mandatory. I was under the impression that they can't make it mandatory for the fans if it's not also mandatory for the staff including the players.

    But, yes, I think it's thoroughly appalling.
    I had an email from LCFC today. For Saturdays match vs MCFC we will be spotchecked for evidence of negative LFT or vaccination.

    https://www.lcfc.com/news/2242997/covid-19-spot-checks-to-be-in-place-for-man-city
    I got instructions for a gig I was supposed to be going shortly that proof of vaccination or negative LFT would be required for entry.

    I won't however be going.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 13,923
    justin124 said:

    I see Lindsay Hoyle is clamping down on the wearing of casual dress in the Commons chamber. I don't disagree with that myself - though do note that Denis Healey was wearing trainers there in his last Parliament - ie the early 1990s.

    Trainers might have been for a foot problem, mind.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 20,898

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I like about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    I find Syed tediously predictable.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 67,572
    At some point infections amongst the vaccinated and unvaxxed should be in broad proportion to the population because the unvaxxed are getting infected faster so their proportion of protected via prior infection should head north quicker than the vaxxed
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 67,572
    Pulpstar said:

    At some point infections amongst the vaccinated and unvaxxed should be in broad proportion to the population because the unvaxxed are getting infected faster so their proportion of protected via prior infection should head north quicker than the vaxxed

    We might still be a long way from that though
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,119
    Andy_JS said:

    I don't understand England tactics to tail enders.

    England are well known for the inability to wrap up the tail. It has cost us many test matches.

    Not this one though, the game has been long gone! 😠
    Betfair Exchange odds:

    England 5.5
    India 1.8
    Draw 3.6

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/cricket/market/1.186995118
    I don't bet or know anything about betting but I would have thought England would be closer to 50 than 5.
  • Iraq, WMDs and the dodgy dossier (FPT). Andrew Gilligan, Radio 4 and Dr David Kelly.

    Tom Mangold's account:-
    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/do-you-remember-what-happened-to-david-kelly/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,398

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I like about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    That's because he's a free-thinking intelligent bloke who is willing to be influenced and is thus more influential himself - he's far from trying to push an ideology on anyone and, indeed, has vociferously criticised many aspects of Wokeness in the past. I'm not even convinced he's particularly left-wing, despite having stood as a Labour candidate in the past.

    When he talks about his experiences I listen, because I know he has no hidden agenda and his intentions are wholly positive.
    So if he started talking about CRT would you be receptive to it?

    Note I still don't really know what CRT is.
    He has spoken about it, and to criticise it.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pit-my-truth-against-your-truth-and-its-a-terrifying-race-to-the-bottom-z9898s8xd

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/what-its-like-to-be-an-anti-racist-accused-of-racism-t2x59t6j2

    Yeah, but that wasn't my point.

    My intention was to highlight the difference between liking someone because you like what they say and liking someone even if you sometimes don't like what they say.
    Oh, I fully agree with engaging with uncomfortable subjects and viewpoints with which you disagree. That's a core tenet of a liberal democracy for me.

    However, I do object to being given a reading list and told, in effect," you need to agree with this", which is all 'educate yourself' really means.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 20,898

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England.

    England cases pretty flat I’d say. This week will be interesting with the schools back and thus increased lft usage.
    Past 3 days, they have been up ~5k week on week each day.

    Cases are going to go very high in the next month. For most of us, that is fine, I am personally not overly concerned, but I think if I was somebody who was isolating back last year, I would be very careful until they get a booster.
    Someone on the shielding list with a school age child might well be back at the "very concerned" stage.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5

    Andy_JS said:

    I don't understand England tactics to tail enders.

    England are well known for the inability to wrap up the tail. It has cost us many test matches.

    Not this one though, the game has been long gone! 😠
    Betfair Exchange odds:

    England 5.5
    India 1.8
    Draw 3.6

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/cricket/market/1.186995118
    I don't bet or know anything about betting but I would have thought England would be closer to 50 than 5.
    I believe it would be the 2nd highest run chase ever for England if successful.....5.5 is ridiculously low odds. Especially given the batting line-up is hardly stacked with dependent individuals will a long track record in batting well under pressure. Its not like its Strauss, Cook, Bell, Root, KP, Flintoff, Stokes, to have a bat.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 19,632
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    maaarsh said:

    Shout out to all the smart cookies who knew vaccine passports were just a bluff to increase take up. Overton window keeps moving 1 step at a time but everyone is far too clever and ironically detatched to ever worry about the next step taken.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58452953

    Asked about vaccine passports, Mr Zahawi referred to Premier League football clubs asking some fans to show proof they have been jabbed, which allowed stadiums to reopen to capacity crowds last month.

    However, only a small number of clubs have made Covid-19 checks a mandatory condition of entry.


    I heard him mention the Premier League, and I've not seen anyone checking so far. I'm also not sure which clubs have made it mandatory. I was under the impression that they can't make it mandatory for the fans if it's not also mandatory for the staff including the players.

    But, yes, I think it's thoroughly appalling.
    I had an email from LCFC today. For Saturdays match vs MCFC we will be spotchecked for evidence of negative LFT or vaccination.

    https://www.lcfc.com/news/2242997/covid-19-spot-checks-to-be-in-place-for-man-city
    To ensure the safety of everyone in attendance and to minimise the risk of COVID-19 transmission, the spot checks, which are part of new Premier League protocols, will ask everyone over the age of 18 to provide one of the below:

    - Proof of full vaccination for a period of more than two weeks
    - A negative lateral flow or PCR test result from within the previous 48 hours
    - An exemption from COVID-19 vaccinations

    The spot check rules apply to everyone attending fixtures at King Power Stadium over the age of 18 and are in place to help supporters prepare for a future scenario where COVID certification becomes mandatory.


    So not mandatory...yet. I think I'd better write to my MP again. Vaccine passports make me angry, "exemptions from vaccinations" makes me apoplectic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 87,889
    edited September 5
    Williamson will survive, he is canny enough to have made himself a Cameron loyalist, then jumped ship to be a May loyalist now jumped ship again to be a Boris loyalist. Raab even Sunak are more likely to be moved, Boris prizes loyalty above all else, even competence.

    As for NI remember there are actually a higher percentage of homewners in the North and Midlands than the South now so rehashing May's plan to make all assets above £100,000 liable for at home care would have hit even those new Tory voters and their heirs, even if their properties do not reach the £325,000 in value those in London and the South would to make them liable for IHT.

    Also, O/T we had lunch today in a pub in Oxfordshire and John Simpson and his wife and son were also eating at the next table plus one, obviously a little less busy this weekend then the last few weekends with all the Afghanistan commentary
  • FPT

    Just in case anyone needs the summary:

    People receive three kinds of services:

    1. Nursing care, be that in your own home, in specially designed accommodation, in care homes, nursing homes, or hospital;
    2. Social care;
    3. Accommodation.

    There are five general sources of funding:

    1. NHS (DHSC)
    2. Benefits (DWP)
    3. Local authorities (DCHLG/local tax)
    4. The individual.
    5. Charity and voluntary sectors (inc. hospices)

    The current system:

    1. The NHS funds nursing care on a needs-based system.

    This is a highly debatable statement. You are referring to NHS Continuing Care.

    NHS Continuing Care is not an easy process to go through or to understand.

    What is certainly true, is that many, many dementia patients are not assessed as eligible for NHS Continuing Care.

    My experience on behalf of a family member is that you need skilful, educated and articulate people willing to argue repeatedly on your behalf, to prepare documents and appeals.

    If you don't have family members on the spot to argue for you (eligibility is re-appraised yearly), then you have little or no chance.
    I don't know if you quoted the right bit, but NHS Continuing Healthcare is point 2, that is, people with complex needs where the NHS is being asked to fund something that isn't 'just' nursing care. The NHS funds nursing care in nursing homes directly to the accommodation provider.

    (I should of course pointed out this is in England albeit I think the above is also correct for Wales. )



    My late sister was diagnosed with terminal cancer and qualified for CHC for the two years she was in nursing care here In Wales

    If she had had dementia she would not
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,267
    Tres said:

    justin124 said:

    I see Lindsay Hoyle is clamping down on the wearing of casual dress in the Commons chamber. I don't disagree with that myself - though do note that Denis Healey was wearing trainers there in his last Parliament - ie the early 1990s.

    Another institution ripe for dragging kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
    It would be nice if he also clamped down on lying by certain individuals....
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,215

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    PB at it's finest, a bunch of middle aged white men explaining to a black woman how to write about racism properly.

    If black people are being racist should that be called out or not?
    Tell me about a time you've experienced racism.
    Your post just now judging people by the colour of their skin. That's racist.
    How did it make you feel?
    It made me metaphorically roll my eyes.

    I don't like racism or racists. It's a shame your so content to be a racist yourself.
    Have you read any of the books that she recommends? It might open your mind a bit. It is not racist to discuss race as an issue in society.
    The only book worth reading of the ones she lists is Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

    The others are just the core Juche of CRT.
    Matthew Syed is an interesting chap. I remember back in the days when Labour attracted a higher level of potential candidates for MP.

    What I like about him is you are never 100% sure what his take will be on something.
    That's because he's a free-thinking intelligent bloke who is willing to be influenced and is thus more influential himself - he's far from trying to push an ideology on anyone and, indeed, has vociferously criticised many aspects of Wokeness in the past. I'm not even convinced he's particularly left-wing, despite having stood as a Labour candidate in the past.

    When he talks about his experiences I listen, because I know he has no hidden agenda and his intentions are wholly positive.
    So if he started talking about CRT would you be receptive to it?

    Note I still don't really know what CRT is.
    He has spoken about it, and to criticise it.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pit-my-truth-against-your-truth-and-its-a-terrifying-race-to-the-bottom-z9898s8xd

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/what-its-like-to-be-an-anti-racist-accused-of-racism-t2x59t6j2

    Yeah, but that wasn't my point.

    My intention was to highlight the difference between liking someone because you like what they say and liking someone even if you sometimes don't like what they say.
    Oh, I fully agree with engaging with uncomfortable subjects and viewpoints with which you disagree. That's a core tenet of a liberal democracy for me.

    However, I do object to being given a reading list and told, in effect," you need to agree with this", which is all 'educate yourself' really means.
    I think that's fair enough.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 556
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    maaarsh said:

    Shout out to all the smart cookies who knew vaccine passports were just a bluff to increase take up. Overton window keeps moving 1 step at a time but everyone is far too clever and ironically detatched to ever worry about the next step taken.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58452953

    Asked about vaccine passports, Mr Zahawi referred to Premier League football clubs asking some fans to show proof they have been jabbed, which allowed stadiums to reopen to capacity crowds last month.

    However, only a small number of clubs have made Covid-19 checks a mandatory condition of entry.


    I heard him mention the Premier League, and I've not seen anyone checking so far. I'm also not sure which clubs have made it mandatory. I was under the impression that they can't make it mandatory for the fans if it's not also mandatory for the staff including the players.

    But, yes, I think it's thoroughly appalling.
    I had an email from LCFC today. For Saturdays match vs MCFC we will be spotchecked for evidence of negative LFT or vaccination.

    https://www.lcfc.com/news/2242997/covid-19-spot-checks-to-be-in-place-for-man-city
    To ensure the safety of everyone in attendance and to minimise the risk of COVID-19 transmission, the spot checks, which are part of new Premier League protocols, will ask everyone over the age of 18 to provide one of the below:

    - Proof of full vaccination for a period of more than two weeks
    - A negative lateral flow or PCR test result from within the previous 48 hours
    - An exemption from COVID-19 vaccinations

    The spot check rules apply to everyone attending fixtures at King Power Stadium over the age of 18 and are in place to help supporters prepare for a future scenario where COVID certification becomes mandatory.


    So not mandatory...yet. I think I'd better write to my MP again. Vaccine passports make me angry, "exemptions from vaccinations" makes me apoplectic.
    One assumes that "exemption" is there to cover potential spectators who can't have it for good medical reasons, of which there are a small number.

    It's the exemptions for the stupid damned players that really get to me. Football clubs demanding proof of something that they demand of everyone except their own employees is gold medal award winning hypocrisy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 39,168
    Is the statement in the thread header correct, namely that "this bet will also pay out if if Williamson is moved elsewhere in the full cabinet. The terms of the bet are quite clear."
    The bit in black seems to say the opposite because merely attending cabinet will not be sufficient.


  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 2,323

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England. And that is before a lot of the super spreaders go back to school / they start to show up in the figures.

    Given it's far too early for any increase to be the result of school spread, this is actually just a helpful indicator of the scale of testing impact from testing all the kids twice in a week. LIkely to be a change to the previous underlying downward trend when schools go back, but current numbers give no basis to judge that yet.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5
    pigeon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    maaarsh said:

    Shout out to all the smart cookies who knew vaccine passports were just a bluff to increase take up. Overton window keeps moving 1 step at a time but everyone is far too clever and ironically detatched to ever worry about the next step taken.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58452953

    Asked about vaccine passports, Mr Zahawi referred to Premier League football clubs asking some fans to show proof they have been jabbed, which allowed stadiums to reopen to capacity crowds last month.

    However, only a small number of clubs have made Covid-19 checks a mandatory condition of entry.


    I heard him mention the Premier League, and I've not seen anyone checking so far. I'm also not sure which clubs have made it mandatory. I was under the impression that they can't make it mandatory for the fans if it's not also mandatory for the staff including the players.

    But, yes, I think it's thoroughly appalling.
    I had an email from LCFC today. For Saturdays match vs MCFC we will be spotchecked for evidence of negative LFT or vaccination.

    https://www.lcfc.com/news/2242997/covid-19-spot-checks-to-be-in-place-for-man-city
    To ensure the safety of everyone in attendance and to minimise the risk of COVID-19 transmission, the spot checks, which are part of new Premier League protocols, will ask everyone over the age of 18 to provide one of the below:

    - Proof of full vaccination for a period of more than two weeks
    - A negative lateral flow or PCR test result from within the previous 48 hours
    - An exemption from COVID-19 vaccinations

    The spot check rules apply to everyone attending fixtures at King Power Stadium over the age of 18 and are in place to help supporters prepare for a future scenario where COVID certification becomes mandatory.


    So not mandatory...yet. I think I'd better write to my MP again. Vaccine passports make me angry, "exemptions from vaccinations" makes me apoplectic.
    One assumes that "exemption" is there to cover potential spectators who can't have it for good medical reasons, of which there are a small number.

    It's the exemptions for the stupid damned players that really get to me. Football clubs demanding proof of something that they demand of everyone except their own employees is gold medal award winning hypocrisy.
    That last I read 1/3 of players haven't been jabbed.

    Where as the NFL now got it up to 90%, very simply, you don't get jabbed, you get treated differently, you aren't allowed to do a load of things vaccinated players are, AND, if you get COVID and you spread it, the whole team will be penalized. I don't know about you, but I probably don't fancy pissing off a load of 6ft 5", 350 pound men pumped full of roids and growth hormones.
  • maaarsh said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England. And that is before a lot of the super spreaders go back to school / they start to show up in the figures.

    Given it's far too early for any increase to be the result of school spread, this is actually just a helpful indicator of the scale of testing impact from testing all the kids twice in a week. LIkely to be a change to the previous underlying downward trend when schools go back, but current numbers give no basis to judge that yet.
    Its not because, it is before....I think it is inevitable we will see a large spike in cases when English schools are in full flow.
  • DavidL said:

    Is the statement in the thread header correct, namely that "this bet will also pay out if if Williamson is moved elsewhere in the full cabinet. The terms of the bet are quite clear."
    The bit in black seems to say the opposite because merely attending cabinet will not be sufficient.


    Full cabinet = Official cabinet minister, not just attending it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 1,629

    Tres said:

    justin124 said:

    I see Lindsay Hoyle is clamping down on the wearing of casual dress in the Commons chamber. I don't disagree with that myself - though do note that Denis Healey was wearing trainers there in his last Parliament - ie the early 1990s.

    Another institution ripe for dragging kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
    It would be nice if he also clamped down on lying by certain individuals....
    Most politicians lie, only a few are called out on it. Why is it a problem when it’s Johnson but not when it’s others ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 17,580
    UK cases by specimen date

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 17,580
    UK cases by specimen date scaled to 100K

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 17,580
    UK local R

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  • TazTaz Posts: 1,629

    Andy_JS said:

    I don't understand England tactics to tail enders.

    England are well known for the inability to wrap up the tail. It has cost us many test matches.

    Not this one though, the game has been long gone! 😠
    Betfair Exchange odds:

    England 5.5
    India 1.8
    Draw 3.6

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/cricket/market/1.186995118
    I don't bet or know anything about betting but I would have thought England would be closer to 50 than 5.
    I believe it would be the 2nd highest run chase ever for England if successful.....5.5 is ridiculously low odds. Especially given the batting line-up is hardly stacked with dependent individuals will a long track record in batting well under pressure. Its not like its Strauss, Cook, Bell, Root, KP, Flintoff, Stokes, to have a bat.
    Comms on Sky say we bat all the way down to 10
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 2,323

    maaarsh said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England. And that is before a lot of the super spreaders go back to school / they start to show up in the figures.

    Given it's far too early for any increase to be the result of school spread, this is actually just a helpful indicator of the scale of testing impact from testing all the kids twice in a week. LIkely to be a change to the previous underlying downward trend when schools go back, but current numbers give no basis to judge that yet.
    Its not because, it is before....I think it is inevitable we will see a large spike in cases when English schools are in full flow.
    Yes, my point is just that the rise in the last 3 days is very likely just a result of higher testing given there's no other change. You may well be right as to what happens once school spread is possible and starts to feed in to the numbers, but the last 3 days is no evidence either way.
  • Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I don't understand England tactics to tail enders.

    England are well known for the inability to wrap up the tail. It has cost us many test matches.

    Not this one though, the game has been long gone! 😠
    Betfair Exchange odds:

    England 5.5
    India 1.8
    Draw 3.6

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/cricket/market/1.186995118
    I don't bet or know anything about betting but I would have thought England would be closer to 50 than 5.
    I believe it would be the 2nd highest run chase ever for England if successful.....5.5 is ridiculously low odds. Especially given the batting line-up is hardly stacked with dependent individuals will a long track record in batting well under pressure. Its not like its Strauss, Cook, Bell, Root, KP, Flintoff, Stokes, to have a bat.
    Comms on Sky say we bat all the way down to 10
    The old "good job we bat deep"....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 17,580
    UK Case Summary

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  • eekeek Posts: 14,199
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I don't understand England tactics to tail enders.

    England are well known for the inability to wrap up the tail. It has cost us many test matches.

    Not this one though, the game has been long gone! 😠
    Betfair Exchange odds:

    England 5.5
    India 1.8
    Draw 3.6

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/cricket/market/1.186995118
    I don't bet or know anything about betting but I would have thought England would be closer to 50 than 5.
    I believe it would be the 2nd highest run chase ever for England if successful.....5.5 is ridiculously low odds. Especially given the batting line-up is hardly stacked with dependent individuals will a long track record in batting well under pressure. Its not like its Strauss, Cook, Bell, Root, KP, Flintoff, Stokes, to have a bat.
    Comms on Sky say we bat all the way down to 10
    Well everyone bats - doesn't mean they are any good at it but they all have to have a turn unless we score enough first.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 67,844
    It's absurd he's in the Cabinet now, therefore it would be no more absurd if he was still there at the end of the year.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,417
    edited September 5
    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England. And that is before a lot of the super spreaders go back to school / they start to show up in the figures.

    Given it's far too early for any increase to be the result of school spread, this is actually just a helpful indicator of the scale of testing impact from testing all the kids twice in a week. LIkely to be a change to the previous underlying downward trend when schools go back, but current numbers give no basis to judge that yet.
    Its not because, it is before....I think it is inevitable we will see a large spike in cases when English schools are in full flow.
    Yes, my point is just that the rise in the last 3 days is very likely just a result of higher testing given there's no other change. You may well be right as to what happens once school spread is possible and starts to feed in to the numbers, but the last 3 days is no evidence either way.
    But what it does mean is the prevalence is already high. Far higher than this time last year.

    As I said down thread, I think if you are under say 50 and double vaccinated, I don't think you should be overly concerned at the moment. It is more those who are very vulnerable and it could well be that their vaccination effectiveness has waned. There is going to be a lot of covid about.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 17,580
    UK Hospitals

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 17,580
    UK deaths

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  • kjhkjh Posts: 3,841
    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    justin124 said:

    I see Lindsay Hoyle is clamping down on the wearing of casual dress in the Commons chamber. I don't disagree with that myself - though do note that Denis Healey was wearing trainers there in his last Parliament - ie the early 1990s.

    Another institution ripe for dragging kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
    It would be nice if he also clamped down on lying by certain individuals....
    Most politicians lie, only a few are called out on it. Why is it a problem when it’s Johnson but not when it’s others ?
    Most evade or mislead, few out and out lie. Boris and Trump don't bother with that fine distinction, not that Boris is in the same league as Trump. Whether the distinction matters I'm not sure.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 17,580
    Age related data

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  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 2,323

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    37,011 cases.....68 deaths.

    Cases up 5k again in England. And that is before a lot of the super spreaders go back to school / they start to show up in the figures.

    Given it's far too early for any increase to be the result of school spread, this is actually just a helpful indicator of the scale of testing impact from testing all the kids twice in a week. LIkely to be a change to the previous underlying downward trend when schools go back, but current numbers give no basis to judge that yet.
    Its not because, it is before....I think it is inevitable we will see a large spike in cases when English schools are in full flow.
    Yes, my point is just that the rise in the last 3 days is very likely just a result of higher testing given there's no other change. You may well be right as to what happens once school spread is possible and starts to feed in to the numbers, but the last 3 days is no evidence either way.
    But what it does mean is the prevalence is already high. Far higher than this time last year.
    I'm not sure moving from c. 23k cases a day to 28k cases a day based on surged testing particularly tells us anything we didn't already know from either the original level or the ONS prevaence survey. The important point is what trajectory it now sets off at and we'll need to wait another week or 2 to see.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 17,580
    Age related data scaled to 100K

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 17,580
    UK R

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 39,168
    Is this not an incredibly arrogant line up for the England football team?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 39,168
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I don't understand England tactics to tail enders.

    England are well known for the inability to wrap up the tail. It has cost us many test matches.

    Not this one though, the game has been long gone! 😠
    Betfair Exchange odds:

    England 5.5
    India 1.8
    Draw 3.6

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/cricket/market/1.186995118
    I don't bet or know anything about betting but I would have thought England would be closer to 50 than 5.
    I believe it would be the 2nd highest run chase ever for England if successful.....5.5 is ridiculously low odds. Especially given the batting line-up is hardly stacked with dependent individuals will a long track record in batting well under pressure. Its not like its Strauss, Cook, Bell, Root, KP, Flintoff, Stokes, to have a bat.
    Comms on Sky say we bat all the way down to 10
    Well everyone bats - doesn't mean they are any good at it but they all have to have a turn unless we score enough first.
    Some of them even tomorrow.
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