Had an infected lump in tongue - seemed to clear up but dentist sucked her teeth at it (so to speak) and referred me to the local specialist hospital clinic. Was phoned in 4 days, appt 2 days later, turned up, was poked and prodded and trainee-fodder all of 10 mins late, all clear etc.
Was told that they had plenty of slots at present so generally things ran smoothly (not sure exactly why).
Mask wearing almost 100% (in Scotland, however). What did not impress me, however, was lack of natural ventilation. But that is the architect. One has to hope the air con is doing a reasonable job ...
Did you let on that you were a Nat? Might have been useful diagnostically.
No. (That's an unusually acid dig from you - not like you at all. Did a cleg get you on the bottom or something?)
I meant it to be funnier and less personal. Apologies. I was a bit embarrassed when I read it back.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Don't be bringing those facts in here again, don't you know Starmer actually is a terrorist sympathiser who wants to destroy the UK as we know it???
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Really depends how strong you think the Tory voteshare is - and I think it's not as strong as it appears
There are a lot of wandering Cons looking for a home. Look at how many there are on here - zillions, relatively. With Big G coming in and going out and coming in and going out of the group.
But where should we go!?
At present, there are too many policies and personnel in Lab that I simply couldn't vote for. Does Lab want to change that? Probably not otherwise what are they. I could live with strong Union links as long as, as per Sharon's statement, the focus is on empowering workers not running the country along Marxist-Leninist lines. Then there is the anti-semitism thing, then there is the hate the rich thing.
So prob quite a gulf between me and a Lab vote.
So the Cons vote you are right might not be that strong but we atm ain't going to Lab.
And you won't be at the election either, let's face facts and look them straight in the eye. But if lots of centre right Johnson/Brexit skeptics like you were to vote Lib Dem or abstain we have an interesting contest in store.
That is true. And as per @rcs1000's observation also.
What do the LibDems stand for again?
Fiscal probity, sound money, personal freedom, civil liberties, social justice, the rule of law, just exactly perfect borders and immigration policy, peace on earth and goodwill to all men.
I cannot recommend them highly enough.
You obviously missed this ridiculous policy idea...
They really don't do themselves any favours with this kind of nonsense.
No, don't like that, it looks lefty. The point of the Lib Dems is to hoover up centre right and centrist and apolitical floaters in blue/yellow seats. Policies or rhetoric that detract from this must be ditched with utter ruthlessness. The goal is to GTTO and install a Labour government.
One thing being overlooked, the Tories can demonise Starmer in a different way to Jezza. They can play the Starmer tried to stop Brexit, do you trust him not to try and reverse it. I think that will play well in the red wall.
Maybe, though there is a risk with that strategy that it is too backwards looking. If Starmer just shrugs it off and talks about what he would do differently on other issues I can imagine the government looking like they have no new ideas so are flogging a dead horse.
Yes. I think you're right. Starmer has shown a grim determination to avoid the B word at all costs. If the Tories over do it at the next election, Labour can legitimately enquire why they keep "banging on about Brexit".
It is a dead cert that the Tories will do their best to make Brexit a thing at the next election.
Well the Johnson/Con vote is the Brexit vote, give or take. If they hold it, give or take, they win another majority.
And what's the biggest single thing Brexit voters have in common?
It's not lack of education. It's not passive aggression. It's not an inferiority complex, nor (its close cousin) the ingrained sense of something very special about this country that is incompatible with membership of the European Single Market and Customs Union.
No, it's quite simply BREXIT. So I think you are bang on with your prediction. Labour will avoid the topic like the plague, the Tories will seek ways to bring it into the conversation.
Labour cannot possibly win a GE unless they have a plan for the continuing post Brexit world distinguishing it from the Tories. A silence on the matter would give rise to a storm of media questioning; 'steady as she goes' would fail to attack the Tories; only a plausible (non unicorn) plan for the post Brexit future will make an election fightable and winnable.
Both Brexiteers and Remainers would feel short changed.
Had an infected lump in tongue - seemed to clear up but dentist sucked her teeth at it (so to speak) and referred me to the local specialist hospital clinic. Was phoned in 4 days, appt 2 days later, turned up, was poked and prodded and trainee-fodder all of 10 mins late, all clear etc.
Was told that they had plenty of slots at present so generally things ran smoothly (not sure exactly why).
Mask wearing almost 100% (in Scotland, however). What did not impress me, however, was lack of natural ventilation. But that is the architect. One has to hope the air con is doing a reasonable job ...
Did you let on that you were a Nat? Might have been useful diagnostically.
No. (That's an unusually acid dig from you - not like you at all. Did a cleg get you on the bottom or something?)
I meant it to be funnier and less personal. Apologies. I was a bit embarrassed when I read it back.
Not to worry - we all do it sometimes! If the thing did remind me of anything, it was of our PB discussion recently of Komodo dragons (because I had bitten my tongue).
Which is largely irrelevant to the Conservatives given the much more than 6 seats they would gain from the Liberals in Ontario if the NDP really eat into the Liberal vote there.
Remember the Conservatives won a majority in 2011 when the NDP were on 30%
The daily rolling polls probably aren't much value. Certainly they're good to look at if you are a Conservative supporter - Mainstreet's daily rolling showed a 5% Conservative lead but Nanos had a 0.2% lead.
The key is where these votes are being cast - the Conservatives piling up votes in Alberta and Saskatchewan isn't much use when 200 of the 338 ridings are in Ontario and Quebec.
I've still got a Ronaldo mug (very faded) from when I took my son down to OT to see him play. He was pretty special then. He's a very good player now but United need youth and speed.
"...appointments so far suggest that the Taliban are more interested in appointing from within their ranks than naming “professionals,” he said, noting the Taliban’s choice for acting head of the central bank: Haji Mohammad Idris, a member of the movement. News reports have indicated that Mr. Idris has no formal financial training."
"...appointments so far suggest that the Taliban are more interested in appointing from within their ranks than naming “professionals,” he said, noting the Taliban’s choice for acting head of the central bank: Haji Mohammad Idris, a member of the movement. News reports have indicated that Mr. Idris has no formal financial training."
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Which is largely irrelevant to the Conservatives given the much more than 6 seats they would gain from the Liberals in Ontario if the NDP really eat into the Liberal vote there.
Remember the Conservatives won a majority in 2011 when the NDP were on 30%
The daily rolling polls probably aren't much value. Certainly they're good to look at if you are a Conservative supporter - Mainstreet's daily rolling showed a 5% Conservative lead but Nanos had a 0.2% lead.
The key is where these votes are being cast - the Conservatives piling up votes in Alberta and Saskatchewan isn't much use when 200 of the 338 ridings are in Ontario and Quebec.
Yes but the main battle in Ontario is Liberal v Conservative and the main battle in Quebec is Liberal v BQ, in neither province are the NDP much of a factor
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
To gullible folk such as yourself he is a rock star (and as I have known a few genuine rock stars I can assure you he is nothing like one). To the rest of us he is a twat. A joke who diminishes Britain on the world stage
Yes Nigel.
Which genuine rock stars have you known?
A few along the way. I don't have need to make it up. Rock stars do have friends and acquaintances who are mere business people.
My point is that I, as I imagine you, have been to events when Johnson was speaking/attending. There is a tangible buzz before he arrives and people swoon into their chicken.
That is undeniable. What is also undeniable of course is as you say he is a complete twat. But he is rockstar material also.
Genuinely interested to know which rockstars you have known hence my attempted diversion.
The only rock star I have engaged in polite conversation with (and this is far from known) is Matt Berninger of The National.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Didn’t Brown have a smouldering Colin Firth as Mr Darcey type appeal in his younger years?
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Blair was also better looking than Hague and Howard and Thatcher was better looking than Callaghan as well.
The last ugly PM who won an election was Wilson as you say but then neither Home nor Heath were much to look at either (although Heath was a bit better in his younger days and did manage to beat Wilson once in 1970).
The same applies to most western democracies in the TV and internet age
One thing being overlooked, the Tories can demonise Starmer in a different way to Jezza. They can play the Starmer tried to stop Brexit, do you trust him not to try and reverse it. I think that will play well in the red wall.
Maybe, though there is a risk with that strategy that it is too backwards looking. If Starmer just shrugs it off and talks about what he would do differently on other issues I can imagine the government looking like they have no new ideas so are flogging a dead horse.
Yes. I think you're right. Starmer has shown a grim determination to avoid the B word at all costs. If the Tories over do it at the next election, Labour can legitimately enquire why they keep "banging on about Brexit".
It is a dead cert that the Tories will do their best to make Brexit a thing at the next election.
Well the Johnson/Con vote is the Brexit vote, give or take. If they hold it, give or take, they win another majority.
And what's the biggest single thing Brexit voters have in common?
It's not lack of education. It's not passive aggression. It's not an inferiority complex, nor (its close cousin) the ingrained sense of something very special about this country that is incompatible with membership of the European Single Market and Customs Union.
No, it's quite simply BREXIT. So I think you are bang on with your prediction. Labour will avoid the topic like the plague, the Tories will seek ways to bring it into the conversation.
Labour cannot possibly win a GE unless they have a plan for the continuing post Brexit world distinguishing it from the Tories. A silence on the matter would give rise to a storm of media questioning; 'steady as she goes' would fail to attack the Tories; only a plausible (non unicorn) plan for the post Brexit future will make an election fightable and winnable.
Both Brexiteers and Remainers would feel short changed.
I think the tack (for Labour at the GE) will be Brexit is just a piece of modern history. It's background now, it's the canvas on which to paint, not part of the picture.
Will it work? I don't know. But that's how they'll be playing it. They are chasing the Red Wall and apolitical floaters. The alternative strategy of becoming the unashamed party of 'Brain & Remain' has been rejected.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Didn’t Brown have a smouldering Colin Firth as Mr Darcey type appeal in his younger years?
On the other hand, consider Scottish, Welsh and Nirish elections. Not convinced the rule applies. Maybe these electorates are less likely to be seduced by puppy eyes etc.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Didn’t Brown have a smouldering Colin Firth as Mr Darcey type appeal in his younger years?
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
To gullible folk such as yourself he is a rock star (and as I have known a few genuine rock stars I can assure you he is nothing like one). To the rest of us he is a twat. A joke who diminishes Britain on the world stage
Yes Nigel.
Which genuine rock stars have you known?
A few along the way. I don't have need to make it up. Rock stars do have friends and acquaintances who are mere business people.
My point is that I, as I imagine you, have been to events when Johnson was speaking/attending. There is a tangible buzz before he arrives and people swoon into their chicken.
That is undeniable. What is also undeniable of course is as you say he is a complete twat. But he is rockstar material also.
Genuinely interested to know which rockstars you have known hence my attempted diversion.
The only rock star I have engaged in polite conversation with (and this is far from known) is Matt Berninger of The National.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Didn’t Brown have a smouldering Colin Firth as Mr Darcey type appeal in his younger years?
On the other hand, consider Scottish, Welsh and Nirish elections. Not convinced the rule applies. Maybe these electorates are less likely to be seduced by puppy eyes etc.
Are you suggesting Arlene isn't a beauty? Mark Drakeford?
Has anyone yet discussed how USA.UK/Nato or whatever got their info on the terrorist attack prior to it happening. Bearing in mind the situation there can't be too many options. I can only think of two options a) they have someone embedded, b) they are monitoring known transmissions. Impressive in either case. Am I missing something?
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Didn’t Brown have a smouldering Colin Firth as Mr Darcey type appeal in his younger years?
On the other hand, consider Scottish, Welsh and Nirish elections. Not convinced the rule applies. Maybe these electorates are less likely to be seduced by puppy eyes etc.
Are you suggesting Arlene isn't a beauty? Mark Drakeford?
OK, maybe it is an England only thing?
TBH, I can't remember what his opposition looked like!
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
Well there is a serious point amongst the silliness which is explained in HYUFD's response. The serious point is that perhaps the electorate is very shallow and won't accept ugly people as PM.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Blair was also better looking than Hague and Howard and Thatcher was better looking than Callaghan as well.
The last ugly PM who won an election was Wilson as you say but then neither Home nor Heath were much to look at either (although Heath was a bit better in his younger days and did manage to beat Wilson once in 1970).
The same applies to most western democracies in the TV and internet age
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Isam's charisma nonsense has just been trumped for absolute banality.
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
Political debate, however sophisticated, doesn't really help with the B part of PB. Political analysis, even if as apparently puerile as that you were responding to, tends to more.
Those 10 extra seats from the boundary review could be very useful for the Tories.
Taking this into account for me it looks as likely that the Tories will increase their majority at the next election as decrease it. It could go either way but I certainly expect a very comfortable majority. We have an opposition who simply cannot establish a poll lead mid term. They have shown very poor tactical awareness and have really struggled to make much of the various errors, incompetence and scandals that have hit the government. As the Tories know to their cost when being thrashed by Blair oppositions who do not achieve significant leads midterm lose. Those that remain behind lose bigly.
The economy is about to grow faster than it has since the Barber boom of the early 70s, employment will be at record highs again by the end of the year and we just might see the deficit fall faster than we expect. A lot of that growth and new jobs will come in the north of England. Inflation is going to be a minor issue but given our debt mountain range (1 mountain no longer covers it) even that is not an unmixed blessing. Considering what we have been through this will be a really strong record and even now SKS is struggling to explain what he would do differently.
I am very conscious of a particular newspaper article when writing this but I think that I have a lot more reason to be confident than Sion Simon ever did.
Sion Simon. That name rings a bell. Was he a journalist ?
I agree with Mike's main point that Starmer will be harder to demonise than Corbyn. Although of course he probably won't have so many fanatical young footsoldiers either.
Nobody can make robust predictions about the next election (other than the obvious such as "everything depends on how many seat losses") until a few months before said election. As we are two or three years away, I think we'd do as well to read the results in bird guts.
For the record I agree with Mike on this point too. SKS is a decent, intelligent, reasonable bore. He is not voter repellent in the way Corbyn was, he's just dull. Whilst that may well attract some Lib Dems to vote tactically I think enthusiasm levels on the Labour side will be low.
Conversely, I think it makes it easier for soft Tories to vote LibDem, because they aren't concerned about letting Corbyn in.
My rough guess for 2024 (or even 2023) is that the Conservatives are north of 40%, but still probably down 2-3 percentage points. I also assume there is a mild increase in tactical voting, as memory of the coalition fades in Labour memories.
Under this scenario (and adding the ten seats that come through the boundary changes), Labour probably picks up 10 to 15 seats from the Conservatives, while the LibDems gain 4 to 6. It's not clear, given Scotland loses seats, that the SNP will actually end up with greater Westminster representation next time around.
Just to add to this:
- the current odds on Conservative majority in 2024 are simply wrong. The real price should be at least 60%, and probably more like 65-70%
- there is a far from non-zero chance that the Conservatives increase their majority. I wouldn't make it 50:50 (mostly because tactical voting tends to increase the longer a party is in power), but given the boundary changes and the strong mid-term position, it is no worse than a one-in-five shot.
My question is what is the chance of the utterly catastrophic event happening that would stop the Tories getting most seats?
Because at the moments Con Most Seats seems like an gilt edged investment given the odds.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
To gullible folk such as yourself he is a rock star (and as I have known a few genuine rock stars I can assure you he is nothing like one). To the rest of us he is a twat. A joke who diminishes Britain on the world stage
Yes Nigel.
Which genuine rock stars have you known?
A few along the way. I don't have need to make it up. Rock stars do have friends and acquaintances who are mere business people.
My point is that I, as I imagine you, have been to events when Johnson was speaking/attending. There is a tangible buzz before he arrives and people swoon into their chicken.
That is undeniable. What is also undeniable of course is as you say he is a complete twat. But he is rockstar material also.
Genuinely interested to know which rockstars you have known hence my attempted diversion.
The only rock star I have engaged in polite conversation with (and this is far from known) is Matt Berninger of The National.
How many others have you had blazing rows with though?
Has anyone yet discussed how USA.UK/Nato or whatever got their info on the terrorist attack prior to it happening. Bearing in mind the situation there can't be too many options. I can only think of two options a) they have someone embedded, b) they are monitoring known transmissions. Impressive in either case. Am I missing something?
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Blair was also better looking than Hague and Howard and Thatcher was better looking than Callaghan as well.
The last ugly PM who won an election was Wilson as you say but then neither Home nor Heath were much to look at either (although Heath was a bit better in his younger days and did manage to beat Wilson once in 1970).
The same applies to most western democracies in the TV and internet age
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
Political debate, however sophisticated, doesn't really help with the B part of PB. Political analysis, even if as apparently puerile as that you were responding to, tends to more.
I like engaging in the puerile occasionally. You should try it, it can be quite fun.
Those 10 extra seats from the boundary review could be very useful for the Tories.
Taking this into account for me it looks as likely that the Tories will increase their majority at the next election as decrease it. It could go either way but I certainly expect a very comfortable majority. We have an opposition who simply cannot establish a poll lead mid term. They have shown very poor tactical awareness and have really struggled to make much of the various errors, incompetence and scandals that have hit the government. As the Tories know to their cost when being thrashed by Blair oppositions who do not achieve significant leads midterm lose. Those that remain behind lose bigly.
The economy is about to grow faster than it has since the Barber boom of the early 70s, employment will be at record highs again by the end of the year and we just might see the deficit fall faster than we expect. A lot of that growth and new jobs will come in the north of England. Inflation is going to be a minor issue but given our debt mountain range (1 mountain no longer covers it) even that is not an unmixed blessing. Considering what we have been through this will be a really strong record and even now SKS is struggling to explain what he would do differently.
I am very conscious of a particular newspaper article when writing this but I think that I have a lot more reason to be confident than Sion Simon ever did.
Sion Simon. That name rings a bell. Was he a journalist ?
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
Well there is a serious point amongst the silliness which is explained in HYUFD's response. The serious point is that perhaps the electorate is very shallow and won't accept ugly people as PM.
Winston Churchill and Abraham Lincoln want a word.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Isam's charisma nonsense has just been trumped for absolute banality.
To be fair though the most successful leaders in terms of winning elections do tend to be both charismatic and good looking, even if it is banal
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
And incredibly off beam.
In no way is Gordon Brown a "minger" ffs! Dark, brooding, brooding, dark, he's all of that. He's the whole package. Could have been in 50 Shades quite easily.
And Boris "Boris" Johnson is NOT objectively speaking a physically attractive man, regardless of blond locks and high muscle/fat ratio. He laughs them into bed (or voting Conservative) with his comedy.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
Well there is a serious point amongst the silliness which is explained in HYUFD's response. The serious point is that perhaps the electorate is very shallow and won't accept ugly people as PM.
Winston Churchill and Abraham Lincoln want a word.
Oh, don't go and spoil it! Abe doesn't count though, because he comes from the country that voted for a man with orange skin and a ridiculous hair do
Has anyone yet discussed how USA.UK/Nato or whatever got their info on the terrorist attack prior to it happening. Bearing in mind the situation there can't be too many options. I can only think of two options a) they have someone embedded, b) they are monitoring known transmissions. Impressive in either case. Am I missing something?
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
And incredibly off beam.
In no way is Gordon Brown a "minger" ffs! Dark, brooding, brooding, dark, he's all of that. He's the whole package. Could have been in 50 Shades quite easily.
And Boris "Boris" Johnson is NOT objectively speaking a physically attractive man, regardless of blond locks and high muscle/fat ratio. He laughs them into bed (or voting Conservative) with his comedy.
That is just a typical London centric metropolitan elite point of view. In the gyms of the red wall seats there are hundreds of thousands of men desperately trying various fitness plans to match Boris' physique, and lasses who cant wait to see the transformations.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Isam's charisma nonsense has just been trumped for absolute banality.
Even so, the US politicians are remarkable for their weird glossiness - as if they have been given Gunther von Hagens' Body Worlds Plastination technique while still alive, with a bit of remedial modification to make them suitable display exemplar specimens of hominid anatomy, like those one might find in the murkier corners of large museums until recetn decades.
I do hope the UK isn't going that way, but a geographgical scatter chart of identifiably plastinated-zombie MPs and MSPs and MS and NI Assembly members on a map of the UK might be interesting, colour-coded by party.
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
Political debate, however sophisticated, doesn't really help with the B part of PB. Political analysis, even if as apparently puerile as that you were responding to, tends to more.
I like engaging in the puerile occasionally. You should try it, it can be quite fun.
I was defending your puerility! I'm personally fond of rude sounding homophones. If I think of one I always try to slip it in.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
Well there is a serious point amongst the silliness which is explained in HYUFD's response. The serious point is that perhaps the electorate is very shallow and won't accept ugly people as PM.
Winston Churchill and Abraham Lincoln want a word.
Oh, don't go and spoil it! Abe doesn't count though, because he comes from the country that voted for a man with orange skin and a ridiculous hair do
Scotland did too. Or at least Glasgow. (Certainly the skin: the hair I can't remember.)
"...appointments so far suggest that the Taliban are more interested in appointing from within their ranks than naming “professionals,” he said, noting the Taliban’s choice for acting head of the central bank: Haji Mohammad Idris, a member of the movement. News reports have indicated that Mr. Idris has no formal financial training."
I agree with Mike's main point that Starmer will be harder to demonise than Corbyn. Although of course he probably won't have so many fanatical young footsoldiers either.
Nobody can make robust predictions about the next election (other than the obvious such as "everything depends on how many seat losses") until a few months before said election. As we are two or three years away, I think we'd do as well to read the results in bird guts.
For the record I agree with Mike on this point too. SKS is a decent, intelligent, reasonable bore. He is not voter repellent in the way Corbyn was, he's just dull. Whilst that may well attract some Lib Dems to vote tactically I think enthusiasm levels on the Labour side will be low.
Conversely, I think it makes it easier for soft Tories to vote LibDem, because they aren't concerned about letting Corbyn in.
My rough guess for 2024 (or even 2023) is that the Conservatives are north of 40%, but still probably down 2-3 percentage points. I also assume there is a mild increase in tactical voting, as memory of the coalition fades in Labour memories.
Under this scenario (and adding the ten seats that come through the boundary changes), Labour probably picks up 10 to 15 seats from the Conservatives, while the LibDems gain 4 to 6. It's not clear, given Scotland loses seats, that the SNP will actually end up with greater Westminster representation next time around.
Just to add to this:
- the current odds on Conservative majority in 2024 are simply wrong. The real price should be at least 60%, and probably more like 65-70%
- there is a far from non-zero chance that the Conservatives increase their majority. I wouldn't make it 50:50 (mostly because tactical voting tends to increase the longer a party is in power), but given the boundary changes and the strong mid-term position, it is no worse than a one-in-five shot.
My question is what is the chance of the utterly catastrophic event happening that would stop the Tories getting most seats?
Because at the moments Con Most Seats seems like an gilt edged investment given the odds.
I totally agree. 1/2 on the Tories not losing at least 80 seats. C'mon...
Interesting polling from Germany showing Laschet as Union Spitzenkandidat is in a deep hole in terms of personal popularity. He lags well behind Olaf Scholz in the Forschingsgruppe poll and in the YouGov poll is actually fourth behind Scholz, Lindner and even Baerbock.
To say Laschet is a lag on the Union ticket would be a masterpiece of understatement - he is a millstone wrapped in an anchor tied to an anvil in terms of dragging down the Union.
We've seen the two new polls - YouGov had the SPD up 24-22 while Forschungsgruppe (the later poll, fieldwork to yesterday) had the Union and SPD tied on 22 and the Greens on 20 with AfD on 11, the Free Democrats on 10 (a poor poll for them), Linke on 7 and the Free Voters on 3.
The question is whether the SPD can strengthen their position pulling more anti-Union voters from parties who might have gained support from the SPD when the latter looked useless but now they are back on form the voters are "coming home".
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
And incredibly off beam.
In no way is Gordon Brown a "minger" ffs! Dark, brooding, brooding, dark, he's all of that. He's the whole package. Could have been in 50 Shades quite easily.
And Boris "Boris" Johnson is NOT objectively speaking a physically attractive man, regardless of blond locks and high muscle/fat ratio. He laughs them into bed (or voting Conservative) with his comedy.
Yes. My other half (a woman of great discernment, naturally) finds Boris physically repulsive, and whenever he appears on TV makes strange, slightly disconcerting, noises of disgust. Not a fan of his politics either, mind you.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
And incredibly off beam.
In no way is Gordon Brown a "minger" ffs! Dark, brooding, brooding, dark, he's all of that. He's the whole package. Could have been in 50 Shades quite easily.
And Boris "Boris" Johnson is NOT objectively speaking a physically attractive man, regardless of blond locks and high muscle/fat ratio. He laughs them into bed (or voting Conservative) with his comedy.
Yes. My other half (a woman of great discernment, naturally) finds Boris physically repulsive, and whenever he appears on TV makes strange, slightly disconcerting, noises of disgust. Not a fan of his politics either, mind you.
Any political cause that chooses to be led by Malc on here will sweep all before it. His brooding, dark, sexual magnetism is what keeps me coming back to this board like a frustrated teenage fanboy.
Interesting polling from Germany showing Laschet as Union Spitzenkandidat is in a deep hole in terms of personal popularity. He lags well behind Olaf Scholz in the Forschingsgruppe poll and in the YouGov poll is actually fourth behind Scholz, Lindner and even Baerbock.
To say Laschet is a lag on the Union ticket would be a masterpiece of understatement - he is a millstone wrapped in an anchor tied to an anvil in terms of dragging down the Union.
We've seen the two new polls - YouGov had the SPD up 24-22 while Forschungsgruppe (the later poll, fieldwork to yesterday) had the Union and SPD tied on 22 and the Greens on 20 with AfD on 11, the Free Democrats on 10 (a poor poll for them), Linke on 7 and the Free Voters on 3.
The question is whether the SPD can strengthen their position pulling more anti-Union voters from parties who might have gained support from the SPD when the latter looked useless but now they are back on form the voters are "coming home".
Yes, Soder very much deserves to be able to tell the CDU 'I told you so' next month.
I still think we could end up with an SPD-Union grand coalition again though, just with Scholz chancellor this time and Laschet vice chancellor with most likely the Greens added on too to get a Bundestag majority
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
Well there is a serious point amongst the silliness which is explained in HYUFD's response. The serious point is that perhaps the electorate is very shallow and won't accept ugly people as PM.
Winston Churchill and Abraham Lincoln want a word.
Though remember that WSC, great as he was, lost twice to Labour, and one of those was a landslide.
I agree with Mike's main point that Starmer will be harder to demonise than Corbyn. Although of course he probably won't have so many fanatical young footsoldiers either.
Nobody can make robust predictions about the next election (other than the obvious such as "everything depends on how many seat losses") until a few months before said election. As we are two or three years away, I think we'd do as well to read the results in bird guts.
For the record I agree with Mike on this point too. SKS is a decent, intelligent, reasonable bore. He is not voter repellent in the way Corbyn was, he's just dull. Whilst that may well attract some Lib Dems to vote tactically I think enthusiasm levels on the Labour side will be low.
Conversely, I think it makes it easier for soft Tories to vote LibDem, because they aren't concerned about letting Corbyn in.
My rough guess for 2024 (or even 2023) is that the Conservatives are north of 40%, but still probably down 2-3 percentage points. I also assume there is a mild increase in tactical voting, as memory of the coalition fades in Labour memories.
Under this scenario (and adding the ten seats that come through the boundary changes), Labour probably picks up 10 to 15 seats from the Conservatives, while the LibDems gain 4 to 6. It's not clear, given Scotland loses seats, that the SNP will actually end up with greater Westminster representation next time around.
Just to add to this:
- the current odds on Conservative majority in 2024 are simply wrong. The real price should be at least 60%, and probably more like 65-70%
- there is a far from non-zero chance that the Conservatives increase their majority. I wouldn't make it 50:50 (mostly because tactical voting tends to increase the longer a party is in power), but given the boundary changes and the strong mid-term position, it is no worse than a one-in-five shot.
My question is what is the chance of the utterly catastrophic event happening that would stop the Tories getting most seats?
Because at the moments Con Most Seats seems like an gilt edged investment given the odds.
I totally agree. 1/2 on the Tories not losing at least 80 seats. C'mon...
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
And incredibly off beam.
In no way is Gordon Brown a "minger" ffs! Dark, brooding, brooding, dark, he's all of that. He's the whole package. Could have been in 50 Shades quite easily.
And Boris "Boris" Johnson is NOT objectively speaking a physically attractive man, regardless of blond locks and high muscle/fat ratio. He laughs them into bed (or voting Conservative) with his comedy.
Yes. My other half (a woman of great discernment, naturally) finds Boris physically repulsive, and whenever he appears on TV makes strange, slightly disconcerting, noises of disgust. Not a fan of his politics either, mind you.
My wife, a shire Tory of a similar age to Johnson, finds him particularly unattractive. She found both Brown and Hague alluring. She had no particular view on Blair, Corbyn, Howard, Milliband or Cameron's appearance. She did think May a shape shifting lizard.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
And incredibly off beam.
In no way is Gordon Brown a "minger" ffs! Dark, brooding, brooding, dark, he's all of that. He's the whole package. Could have been in 50 Shades quite easily.
And Boris "Boris" Johnson is NOT objectively speaking a physically attractive man, regardless of blond locks and high muscle/fat ratio. He laughs them into bed (or voting Conservative) with his comedy.
That is just a typical London centric metropolitan elite point of view. In the gyms of the red wall seats there are hundreds of thousands of men desperately trying various fitness plans to match Boris' physique, and lasses who cant wait to see the transformations.
- The legs have it with BJ imho. Best feature by a mile.
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
And incredibly off beam.
In no way is Gordon Brown a "minger" ffs! Dark, brooding, brooding, dark, he's all of that. He's the whole package. Could have been in 50 Shades quite easily.
And Boris "Boris" Johnson is NOT objectively speaking a physically attractive man, regardless of blond locks and high muscle/fat ratio. He laughs them into bed (or voting Conservative) with his comedy.
Yes. My other half (a woman of great discernment, naturally) finds Boris physically repulsive, and whenever he appears on TV makes strange, slightly disconcerting, noises of disgust. Not a fan of his politics either, mind you.
Same with mine. The double date is on!
(Although her early enthusiasm for SKS has sadly waned. She hasn't gone all isam but it's a worry.)
This thread header is like saying that the GOP is going to be a lot harder to demonise without Trump - when it still has all the elements that made Trump possible and facilitated his rise to power.
Every Labour government has always ran out of other people's money. Labour may have dropped Corbyn but they still refuse to acknowledge they did anything wrong when Brown was in charge.
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Isam's charisma nonsense has just been trumped for absolute banality.
To be fair though the most successful leaders in terms of winning elections do tend to be both charismatic and good looking, even if it is banal
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
PB.com: the home of sophisticated political debate.
And incredibly off beam.
In no way is Gordon Brown a "minger" ffs! Dark, brooding, brooding, dark, he's all of that. He's the whole package. Could have been in 50 Shades quite easily.
And Boris "Boris" Johnson is NOT objectively speaking a physically attractive man, regardless of blond locks and high muscle/fat ratio. He laughs them into bed (or voting Conservative) with his comedy.
Yes. My other half (a woman of great discernment, naturally) finds Boris physically repulsive, and whenever he appears on TV makes strange, slightly disconcerting, noises of disgust. Not a fan of his politics either, mind you.
Sounds like your wife and mine would get along just fine.
Mrs P cannot tolerate listening to Johnson on the TV, she has to switch it off or leave the room. Absolute disgust would be too soft a term to describe her feelings for him.
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
Doggies or darkies. Always a difficult, and I think fundamentally a personal, choice.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
Interesting definition of "more accessible"....some may argue more ghettoised.
I suppose the only restriction to access to Shakespeare is lack of introduction to it or interest in it. If these ladies can get some more people interested in it, then they've done the job.
Interesting definition of "more accessible"....some may argue more ghettoised.
Hmm. The original plays were all white, all male casts. If it's good enough for Willie S. ...
I am not sure how going to the other extreme improves things.
If someone wants to do all gay, or all male, or all transgender, or all disabled, or all with an IQ below 35, or all members of UKIP Shakespeare, then good for them.
I probably shan't watch it, but it's a free country.
Interesting definition of "more accessible"....some may argue more ghettoised.
Hmm. The original plays were all white, all male casts. If it's good enough for Willie S. ...
I am not sure how going to the other extreme improves things.
Doesn't make them any worse, though, does it?
Productions of Shakespeare have long since ceased to be 100% male (where there are male and female characters). And increasing productions with more diverse casts.
I don't see how copying the likes of 1950s America, where you have entertainment solely by and for white people and entertainment by and for black people helps anybody.
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
Doggies or darkies. Always a difficult, and I think fundamentally a personal, choice.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
BBC
No dogs were prioritised over people.
Farthing was told if he could charter his own flight then he could take his anmials out. He did.
Should his chartered flight have been turned away?
We're told by Farage and co that we're fed up of politicians that are born to rule, never had a proper job etc.
Starmer has, he really should lean into that.
A Human Rights lawyer. I wouldn't if I were him
One of the biggest myths out there is that there is an entire separate category of “human rights” lawyers. All us lawyers are human rights lawyers. We all deal with rights, mostly rights that belong to humans (some deal with rights that belong to corporations too) including rights to land, right to a fair trial, rights to workplace safety, rights to enforce a contract. We all, at some point, probably have course to refer to the Human Rights Act, some more than others. But no one deals with the HRA in a vacuum. In Starmer’s case he was a criminal defence lawyer, who specialised in the application of the HRA, turned prosecutor.
Oh even better - A criminal defence lawyer, specialising in Human Rights. Yes, that will resonate with the lads down the pub "At least he's had a proper job like us"
Yeah that Boris Johnson. King's Scholar at Eton- just like Ted who's getting the beers in right now. What characters.
Perhaps so, but he’s already won people over
Absolutely. He is a rock star. But that is because of who he is and his personality, not because of his previous incarnations.
SKS has had a charisma bypass. Lawyer or not lawyer that is the root of the problem.
With all due respect, only one recent Prime Minister can genuinely claim to have been a rock star: step forward the lead singer and guitarist of the band Ugly Rumours.
A wannabe rock star, to be more precise. When he found he didn't have the talent for that, he had to make do with becoming PM instead.
Anecdote: My wife used to work with one of the other Ugly Rumours.
Who was it who said politics is show biz for ugly people?
Up to a point, rarely do ugly party leaders win elections, though you can certainly have ugly backbenchers and Cabinet members.
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
Interesting point. I was going to suggest that Gordon Brown was a bit of a minger, but then remembered he didn't win. Harold Wilson was pretty ugly, and going further back you have Alec Douglas Home (not sure whether he won?).
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger) Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd) Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger) Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major) Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger) Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above) Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
Isam's charisma nonsense has just been trumped for absolute banality.
To be fair though the most successful leaders in terms of winning elections do tend to be both charismatic and good looking, even if it is banal
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
Doggies or darkies. Always a difficult, and I think fundamentally a personal, choice.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
BBC
No dogs were prioritised over people.
Farthing was told if he could charter his own flight then he could take his anmials out. He did.
Should his chartered flight have been turned away?
A plane which could have carried people, carried a load of fucking cats and dogs. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
Doggies or darkies. Always a difficult, and I think fundamentally a personal, choice.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
BBC
No dogs were prioritised over people.
Farthing was told if he could charter his own flight then he could take his anmials out. He did.
Should his chartered flight have been turned away?
Story not over. Not clear that the pooches and mogs have actually left. And it also assumes that the pets didn't, and won't, cause any distraction of effort at lower levels than Mr Wallace and the MoD press office.
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
Doggies or darkies. Always a difficult, and I think fundamentally a personal, choice.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
BBC
No dogs were prioritised over people.
Farthing was told if he could charter his own flight then he could take his anmials out. He did.
Should his chartered flight have been turned away?
A plane which could have carried people, carried a load of fucking cats and dogs. Stop embarrassing yourself.
You're thinking of milspec cargo planes - it would be a civilian type flight ewith the hounds in the lower tier where the baggage normally goes, with people up above as usual.
Interesting definition of "more accessible"....some may argue more ghettoised.
Hmm. The original plays were all white, all male casts. If it's good enough for Willie S. ...
I am not sure how going to the other extreme improves things.
If someone wants to do all gay, or all male, or all transgender, or all disabled, or all with an IQ below 35, or all members of UKIP Shakespeare, then good for them.
I probably shan't watch it, but it's a free country.
I would be interested to know if they get grant money....I imagine you might struggle to be grant money if you proudly promised to exclude all staff (not just the actors) who weren't white or male. Somebody might just complain it was a tad racist and sexist.
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
Doggies or darkies. Always a difficult, and I think fundamentally a personal, choice.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
BBC
No dogs were prioritised over people.
Farthing was told if he could charter his own flight then he could take his anmials out. He did.
Should his chartered flight have been turned away?
A plane which could have carried people, carried a load of fucking cats and dogs. Stop embarrassing yourself.
You're thinking of milspec cargo planes - it would be a civilian type flight ewith the hounds in the lower tier where the baggage normally goes, with people up above as usual.
Any environment a dog can survive, so can a human.
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
Doggies or darkies. Always a difficult, and I think fundamentally a personal, choice.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
BBC
No dogs were prioritised over people.
Farthing was told if he could charter his own flight then he could take his anmials out. He did.
Should his chartered flight have been turned away?
If the chartered flight could have taken people out instead of the semi-feral animals, then it should have taken people out. (I know it took some people out; if it could have taken more without the animals, then it should have left the animals.)
There are many questions over this. How many of the 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons eligible wanted to leave; the BBC said earlier that not all did. What were the limiting factors in getting everyone who wanted to get out, out? Landing slots? Processing people? Did the charter flight get any special considerations wrt landing slot? Did the people from the charity and their associates get any special processing?
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
Doggies or darkies. Always a difficult, and I think fundamentally a personal, choice.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
BBC
No dogs were prioritised over people.
Farthing was told if he could charter his own flight then he could take his anmials out. He did.
Should his chartered flight have been turned away?
A plane which could have carried people, carried a load of fucking cats and dogs. Stop embarrassing yourself.
You're thinking of milspec cargo planes - it would be a civilian type flight ewith the hounds in the lower tier where the baggage normally goes, with people up above as usual.
Any environment a dog can survive, so can a human.
That did occur to me after I posted it. But it's not normally considered acceptable to go in the aerial cargo bay. Has it ever been done, except by stowaways?
Manchester United have confirmed they have re-signed Cristiano Ronaldo from Juventus.
Why? Are they really going to deny Greenwood game time for Ronnie?
I don't understand the signing at all...screams of nostalgia more than anything. Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Martial, James, etc....
They just spent £100m on Sancho, who is a younger Ronaldo.
I suspect it makes good commercial sense if not pure footbal sense.
Perhaps. They are paying £13m as a transfer, call it £20m after agent fees etc. Then what another £30m in wages for a couple of years?
Call £50m for 2 years of past his prime Ronaldo. But then Ben White costs you that in transfer alone and nobody is going to Arsenal, buying a shirt etc, just to watch Ben White.
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
Doggies or darkies. Always a difficult, and I think fundamentally a personal, choice.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
BBC
No dogs were prioritised over people.
Farthing was told if he could charter his own flight then he could take his anmials out. He did.
Should his chartered flight have been turned away?
If the chartered flight could have taken people out instead of the semi-feral animals, then it should have taken people out. (I know it took some people out; if it could have taken more without the animals, then it should have left the animals.)
There are many questions over this. How many of the 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons eligible wanted to leave; the BBC said earlier that not all did. What were the limiting factors in getting everyone who wanted to get out, out? Landing slots? Processing people? Did the charter flight get any special considerations wrt landing slot? Did the people from the charity and their associates get any special processing?
How do you prioritise between feral, domesticated and semi-feral?
Pen Farthing and his pets were assisted through the system at Kabul airport by the UK Armed Forces. They are currently being supported while he awaits transportation. ..... On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
Doggies or darkies. Always a difficult, and I think fundamentally a personal, choice.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
BBC
No dogs were prioritised over people.
Farthing was told if he could charter his own flight then he could take his anmials out. He did.
Should his chartered flight have been turned away?
A plane which could have carried people, carried a load of fucking cats and dogs. Stop embarrassing yourself.
I'm not embarrassing myself. It was his chartered plane that went there in addition to the planes that were being used.
What should have been done? Told him that despite chartering his own plane that it was being commandeered and he couldn't use it as chartered for afterall?
He was told he wouldn't be assisted to get the animals out but if he chartered his own plane they could be - he did so - that's fair enough isn't it?
Comments
A bit like you can have ugly character actors or drummers but rarely do you get an ugly leading man or woman or lead singer
They just spent £100m on Sancho, who is a younger Ronaldo.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/27/scotland-records-highest-number-of-daily-covid-cases
Both Brexiteers and Remainers would feel short changed.
Ooops
The key is where these votes are being cast - the Conservatives piling up votes in Alberta and Saskatchewan isn't much use when 200 of the 338 ridings are in Ontario and Quebec.
NYTime blog
What could possibly go wrong?
Maybe you have something here. Perhaps the PM that wins is normally the better looking:
Puppy eyes Johnson v Corbyn (Corbyn def a minger)
Cameron v Miliband (Miliband looks a bit wierd)
Cameron v Brown (Brown is a minger)
Blair v Major (Major not really a minger, but Blair better looking than Major)
Major v Kinnock (Kinnoch a bit of a minger)
Thatcher v Kinnoch (see above)
Thatcher v Foot (Foot def minger)
BWDIK.
https://wh.bet/2WnyTGB
Terms apply.
#MUFC
https://twitter.com/kamilkaramali/status/1431261731204964365
The last ugly PM who won an election was Wilson as you say but then neither Home nor Heath were much to look at either (although Heath was a bit better in his younger days and did manage to beat Wilson once in 1970).
The same applies to most western democracies in the TV and internet age
Will it work? I don't know. But that's how they'll be playing it. They are chasing the Red Wall and apolitical floaters. The alternative strategy of becoming the unashamed party of 'Brain & Remain' has been rejected.
Bad idea under most circumstances unless he wants the placate Sharon Graham's cheque book.
OK, maybe it is an England only thing?
.....
On the direction of the Defence Secretary, clearance for their charter flight has been sponsored by the UK Government.
https://twitter.com/DefenceHQPress/status/1431298596930994186?s=20
Because at the moments Con Most Seats seems like an gilt edged investment given the odds.
In no way is Gordon Brown a "minger" ffs! Dark, brooding, brooding, dark, he's all of that. He's the whole package. Could have been in 50 Shades quite easily.
And Boris "Boris" Johnson is NOT objectively speaking a physically attractive man, regardless of blond locks and high muscle/fat ratio. He laughs them into bed (or voting Conservative) with his comedy.
Gunther von Hagens' Body Worlds Plastination technique while still alive, with a bit of remedial modification to make them suitable display exemplar specimens of hominid anatomy, like those one might find in the murkier corners of large museums until recetn decades.
I do hope the UK isn't going that way, but a geographgical scatter chart of identifiably plastinated-zombie MPs and MSPs and MS and NI Assembly members on a map of the UK might be interesting, colour-coded by party.
Interesting polling from Germany showing Laschet as Union Spitzenkandidat is in a deep hole in terms of personal popularity. He lags well behind Olaf Scholz in the Forschingsgruppe poll and in the YouGov poll is actually fourth behind Scholz, Lindner and even Baerbock.
To say Laschet is a lag on the Union ticket would be a masterpiece of understatement - he is a millstone wrapped in an anchor tied to an anvil in terms of dragging down the Union.
We've seen the two new polls - YouGov had the SPD up 24-22 while Forschungsgruppe (the later poll, fieldwork to yesterday) had the Union and SPD tied on 22 and the Greens on 20 with AfD on 11, the Free Democrats on 10 (a poor poll for them), Linke on 7 and the Free Voters on 3.
The question is whether the SPD can strengthen their position pulling more anti-Union voters from parties who might have gained support from the SPD when the latter looked useless but now they are back on form the voters are "coming home".
I still think we could end up with an SPD-Union grand coalition again though, just with Scholz chancellor this time and Laschet vice chancellor with most likely the Greens added on too to get a Bundestag majority
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/entertainment-arts-58285815
Interesting definition of "more accessible"....some may argue more ghettoised.
(Although her early enthusiasm for SKS has sadly waned. She hasn't gone all isam but it's a worry.)
Every Labour government has always ran out of other people's money. Labour may have dropped Corbyn but they still refuse to acknowledge they did anything wrong when Brown was in charge.
Why should they be trusted again?
Mrs P cannot tolerate listening to Johnson on the TV, she has to switch it off or leave the room. Absolute disgust would be too soft a term to describe her feelings for him.
Whereas in Devon you put on the face shield then the face mask.
"The UK has entered the final stages of its Kabul evacuation and no more people will be called to the airport to leave, the Ministry of Defence says.
The MoD said processing facilities at the Baron Hotel, outside the capital's airport, had been closed.
The defence secretary expressed "deep regret" that not everyone eligible had been evacuated, including around 800 to 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons."
BBC
I probably shan't watch it, but it's a free country.
I don't see how copying the likes of 1950s America, where you have entertainment solely by and for white people and entertainment by and for black people helps anybody.
Farthing was told if he could charter his own flight then he could take his anmials out. He did.
Should his chartered flight have been turned away?
There are many questions over this. How many of the 1,100 Afghans and 100 to 150 Britons eligible wanted to leave; the BBC said earlier that not all did.
What were the limiting factors in getting everyone who wanted to get out, out? Landing slots? Processing people?
Did the charter flight get any special considerations wrt landing slot?
Did the people from the charity and their associates get any special processing?
And of course the team will be bouncing
Call £50m for 2 years of past his prime Ronaldo. But then Ben White costs you that in transfer alone and nobody is going to Arsenal, buying a shirt etc, just to watch Ben White.
What should have been done? Told him that despite chartering his own plane that it was being commandeered and he couldn't use it as chartered for afterall?
He was told he wouldn't be assisted to get the animals out but if he chartered his own plane they could be - he did so - that's fair enough isn't it?
Hang on a minute - that was a report on Leeds Festival.