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Just about all the national papers lead on the same story – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.
  • Options

    kjh said:

    Mildly interesting tweet, given recent posts on supermarkets..

    Samuel Jenkinson
    @samueljenkinson
    Meat and fish in British supermarkets is actually better than in Belgium. Not just by price, but also choice. It’s actually enraging me walking around how much more I pay for everything and what just isn’t available.
    4:14 PM · Aug 26, 2021 from Hull, England·Twitter for iPhone
    https://twitter.com/samueljenkinson/status/1430911583073538048

    I guess everywhere is different. In French supermarkets you get a great choice of French and Dutch cheese, but never any British cheese which seems odd. And live crabs and fishing bait (which really seems weird to me) which doesn't happen here. Different customs and expectations I guess.
    Oh sure, I just thought it slightly amusing that a Brussels resident visiting Hull is astonished by the choice in the Hull supermarket, while we're in the middle of the worst food shortages in recorded history (or whatever it is that Scott tweets about)
    We have a larger product range in that area. The reverse in other countries. How many kinds of fresh fish is included in a supermarket range in Hull vs Brussels hasn't got anything to do with the ability of either supermarket in either country to get products generally. Its comparing apples and pears - or Tesco and Aldi.

    "I went in Tesco instead of my usual Aldi - they had so much choice when it comes to hummus!"
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    edited August 2021
    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,109
    I

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Jonathan said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As you mentioned the Mail, for once, nails it.

    The Mail, as ever, is being idiotic. What happened 18 months ago was the Doha Agreement, where the US agreed to leave and in exchange the Taliban agreed to stop shooting at them.
    Of course, the agreement to pull out was signed by President Trump but whether this detail matters to American voters has yet to be seen. It might also be that these latest deaths are seen as vindication of withdrawal from what must seem to many to be a pointless war.
    It has taken us full circle back to the “we’re gonna get you for this” line from the movies that got us into this mess in the first place.
    It also raises the question of why Britain went along in the first place. Clearly, we needed the United States, which is why we must get out now they are leaving, and they did not need us. It's not just Iraq that Tony Blair got wrong, which will probably deflect attention from the pitiful state of our armed forces after years of cuts.
    If our armed forces are too weak to travel round the world and occupy another country, that is an upside, as well as a massive cost saving.
    Pax Americana 1945-2021

    Be careful what you wish for, am not sure what replaces it will be in our national interest..
    More like Clusterfuckica Bush-Chenica 2001-2021. They're still going to spend ungodly sums of weapon systems and they're still going to bomb things and sponsor coups. They still want to get reelected and as we've seen over the past week, the media still really, really like wars.
    Do you think Western civilisation is something worth protecting, nurturing and if possible extending? If so, how do you propose to do that? By building a big wall to keep out the barbarians? Or by taking the fight to them? Or waiting until you’re attacked and doing something then? What about when the barbarians are already through your gates, insidiously undermining your values? This goes for all of Islamist extremists, communist China and nationalist Russia.

    This isn’t a new question of course. It’s as old as civilisation and is a complex one to answer. Glib statements about war mongering don’t really add much.
    TBH, I don't think that people can be bombed into being civilised.
    The objective of bombing someone isn’t to civilise them, it is to kill them.
    Or, as we used to say when arguing about National Service.
    'Join the Army. Travel to different, exotic places. Meet interesting people with different backgrounds. And kill them!'
    When I was a kid the prospect of joining the Army largely involved imagining crouching behind someone’s garden wall in West Belfast for a few years. The thought, for most of us, did not appeal.
  • Options

    kjh said:

    Mildly interesting tweet, given recent posts on supermarkets..

    Samuel Jenkinson
    @samueljenkinson
    Meat and fish in British supermarkets is actually better than in Belgium. Not just by price, but also choice. It’s actually enraging me walking around how much more I pay for everything and what just isn’t available.
    4:14 PM · Aug 26, 2021 from Hull, England·Twitter for iPhone
    https://twitter.com/samueljenkinson/status/1430911583073538048

    I guess everywhere is different. In French supermarkets you get a great choice of French and Dutch cheese, but never any British cheese which seems odd. And live crabs and fishing bait (which really seems weird to me) which doesn't happen here. Different customs and expectations I guess.
    Oh sure, I just thought it slightly amusing that a Brussels resident visiting Hull is astonished by the choice in the Hull supermarket, while we're in the middle of the worst food shortages in recorded history (or whatever it is that Scott tweets about)
    We have a larger product range in that area. The reverse in other countries. How many kinds of fresh fish is included in a supermarket range in Hull vs Brussels hasn't got anything to do with the ability of either supermarket in either country to get products generally. Its comparing apples and pears - or Tesco and Aldi.

    "I went in Tesco instead of my usual Aldi - they had so much choice when it comes to hummus!"
    I said it was "mildly interesting" and "slightly amusing" to me. I didn't try to present it as any kind of proof (or even evidence) that we don't have problems with food supply, or that Belgium does.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,122

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    My sister is a graduate of Moray House. When she was there would be teachers spent more than half their time learning Marxist based sociology with little to no relevance to the classroom. It frustrated her greatly. I am still trying to work out if this is more or less damaging than that.

    The extent of deterioration in Scottish education has moved from a cultural disaster to a profound future economic risk. Our children are no longer sufficiently adequately educated to be employable. It's tragic.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,122
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    "Should Biden step down or be removed for his handling of Afghanistan? Yes," said Nikki Haley, the Republican former ambassador to the United Nations. "But that would leave us with Kamala Harris, which would be ten times worse. God help us."

    Telegraph

    Harris is a charisma void. A prosecutor who changes direction according to the direction of the wind. A conviction free zone.

    But she's not an idiot. You don't rise to the top of the prosecution ladder in California by being a shrinking violet, you do it by being efficient at putting people behind bars, and claiming credit for it.

    Harris, with the post covid boom in her pocket and being able to blame problems in Afghanistan on her predecessor, would be in a pretty good position.
    Except she is crap in the run up to the primaries - quitting last time before even the first one took place
    Well yes.

    She did a very poor job, and was outshined by Buttigieg, among others.

    But she wasn't the sitting President.
    The only times she has really impressed me is when she was cross examining witnesses in the Senate. You could see that she would have been a good and effective prosecutor. But, like all too many modern politicians, she is seriously short of ideas and incapable of articulating even the few that she has.

    Buttigieg, in contrast, is almost too articulate and clearly buzzing with ideas. So many you wonder if he has clear priorities or appreciates the limitations of government. He will hopefully have his chance to shine if the infrastructure bill gets through.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,099

    kjh said:

    Mildly interesting tweet, given recent posts on supermarkets..

    Samuel Jenkinson
    @samueljenkinson
    Meat and fish in British supermarkets is actually better than in Belgium. Not just by price, but also choice. It’s actually enraging me walking around how much more I pay for everything and what just isn’t available.
    4:14 PM · Aug 26, 2021 from Hull, England·Twitter for iPhone
    https://twitter.com/samueljenkinson/status/1430911583073538048

    I guess everywhere is different. In French supermarkets you get a great choice of French and Dutch cheese, but never any British cheese which seems odd. And live crabs and fishing bait (which really seems weird to me) which doesn't happen here. Different customs and expectations I guess.
    Oh sure, I just thought it slightly amusing that a Brussels resident visiting Hull is astonished by the choice in the Hull supermarket, while we're in the middle of the worst food shortages in recorded history (or whatever it is that Scott tweets about)
    We have a larger product range in that area. The reverse in other countries. How many kinds of fresh fish is included in a supermarket range in Hull vs Brussels hasn't got anything to do with the ability of either supermarket in either country to get products generally. Its comparing apples and pears - or Tesco and Aldi.

    "I went in Tesco instead of my usual Aldi - they had so much choice when it comes to hummus!"
    I misread that last word...I could only hope you were referring to social variety rather than cannibalism.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,976
    We're off on a new round of tory leader Grindr! Fuck Tugendharhrhhrt, that was last week. Now we're all about the fat bald one.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,099

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    Although everyone does it. You want to read self-indulgent moralising? Read any Victorian historian on the sex lives of Admiral Nelson or Henry VIII.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DougSeal said:

    I’ll say this for the Soviet Union - it had a better idea of how to withdraw from Afghanistan than the US or the U.K.

    Done over a year with 500+ Soviet deaths?
  • Options
    For JRM "fans" - a video of 12 year old Jacob being interviewed by French TV in the back of his Dad's Rolls
    https://twitter.com/Inafr_officiel/status/1430775768142028801
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,212

    kjh said:

    Mildly interesting tweet, given recent posts on supermarkets..

    Samuel Jenkinson
    @samueljenkinson
    Meat and fish in British supermarkets is actually better than in Belgium. Not just by price, but also choice. It’s actually enraging me walking around how much more I pay for everything and what just isn’t available.
    4:14 PM · Aug 26, 2021 from Hull, England·Twitter for iPhone
    https://twitter.com/samueljenkinson/status/1430911583073538048

    I guess everywhere is different. In French supermarkets you get a great choice of French and Dutch cheese, but never any British cheese which seems odd. And live crabs and fishing bait (which really seems weird to me) which doesn't happen here. Different customs and expectations I guess.
    Oh sure, I just thought it slightly amusing that a Brussels resident visiting Hull is astonished by the choice in the Hull supermarket, while we're in the middle of the worst food shortages in recorded history (or whatever it is that Scott tweets about)
    In part at least it is because those countries that still have local cultural ties to the land - Italy, France, Spain - will stock their local produce either exclusively, or in strong preference to those from other regions within the country let alone from abroad. So when it comes to wine, cheese, etc., go to a supermarket and you'll mostly be offered local produce.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,212
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.

    He has been good. Realistic, genuinely responding to questions, explaining the brutal realities whilst making it clear he wishes it was not so. Has shown up both Raab and Boris in my opinion.
    Higher hurdles are available, tbf
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,571
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.

    He has been good. Realistic, genuinely responding to questions, explaining the brutal realities whilst making it clear he wishes it was not so. Has shown up both Raab and Boris in my opinion.
    Absolutely agree (as pointed out in an earlier post). He has been very good and seems very genuine. He is also why I picked him as possibly the next one out of the cabinet as he seems to be very unhappy with what has happened, but he also seems to be the sort to see it through and not walk away. As Boris doesn't tend to fire people it is likely the next one out is a resignation and I wonder whether he will go when this is all wound up. Unlikely, but a possibility.

    As I have said before I am also very impressed with Grant Shapps over the last few years. I have a biased opinion against him because of his murky past, but I have to give him credit for putting his head above the parapet on numerous occasions in the last few years and always performing well. Most noticeably seeming to answer questions and not giving out bullshit in difficult situations.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,102
    DavidL said:

    O/T really interesting, if somewhat long, piece on climate change in the American west: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/summer-2021-climate-change-records/619887/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210826&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Basically, the heatwave in the western US this year was statistically impossible: it was simply beyond the parameters of any of the models. The knock on effects in wildfires, drought, loss of energy production and excess deaths caused by heat are all combining with each other in highly alarming ways. Climate change is not a future risk, its a current reality in an area of the US which still have a fast growing population.

    Hence the models are wrong. Like the bumblebees can’t theoretically fly effect.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,571

    kjh said:

    Mildly interesting tweet, given recent posts on supermarkets..

    Samuel Jenkinson
    @samueljenkinson
    Meat and fish in British supermarkets is actually better than in Belgium. Not just by price, but also choice. It’s actually enraging me walking around how much more I pay for everything and what just isn’t available.
    4:14 PM · Aug 26, 2021 from Hull, England·Twitter for iPhone
    https://twitter.com/samueljenkinson/status/1430911583073538048

    I guess everywhere is different. In French supermarkets you get a great choice of French and Dutch cheese, but never any British cheese which seems odd. And live crabs and fishing bait (which really seems weird to me) which doesn't happen here. Different customs and expectations I guess.
    Oh sure, I just thought it slightly amusing that a Brussels resident visiting Hull is astonished by the choice in the Hull supermarket, while we're in the middle of the worst food shortages in recorded history (or whatever it is that Scott tweets about)
    We have a larger product range in that area. The reverse in other countries. How many kinds of fresh fish is included in a supermarket range in Hull vs Brussels hasn't got anything to do with the ability of either supermarket in either country to get products generally. Its comparing apples and pears - or Tesco and Aldi.

    "I went in Tesco instead of my usual Aldi - they had so much choice when it comes to hummus!"
    I said it was "mildly interesting" and "slightly amusing" to me. I didn't try to present it as any kind of proof (or even evidence) that we don't have problems with food supply, or that Belgium does.
    Yes I agree. On the anecdote front Sainsbury's in Cobham who have had lots of empty shelves in previous weeks has seemed to be fully stocked 2 weeks on the trot.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    Dura_Ace said:

    We're off on a new round of tory leader Grindr! Fuck Tugendharhrhhrt, that was last week. Now we're all about the fat bald one.

    Doesn't narrow it down.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,717
    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    My sister is a graduate of Moray House. When she was there would be teachers spent more than half their time learning Marxist based sociology with little to no relevance to the classroom. It frustrated her greatly. I am still trying to work out if this is more or less damaging than that.

    The extent of deterioration in Scottish education has moved from a cultural disaster to a profound future economic risk. Our children are no longer sufficiently adequately educated to be employable. It's tragic.
    One quote from that article

    ‘Further action was needed to address the predominantly white teaching workforce and racism which is rife in Scottish schools.’

    Omfg

    Scotland has a PREDOMINANTLY WHITE TEACHING WORKFORCE

    The horror of racism, right there
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,109
    Alistair said:

    DougSeal said:

    I’ll say this for the Soviet Union - it had a better idea of how to withdraw from Afghanistan than the US or the U.K.

    Done over a year with 500+ Soviet deaths?
    In retrospect we were all happier with the government they left behind
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,717
    Dura_Ace said:

    We're off on a new round of tory leader Grindr! Fuck Tugendharhrhhrt, that was last week. Now we're all about the fat bald one.

    Is that a special new anti-vax avatar?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    edited August 2021
    Mr. Doethur, jein.

    Interpretations of history using modern morals and social norms is to be expected*, but is still wrong and objective historians have sought to avoid this for millennia. (Attempting to alter perceptions of the facts of the past or plain rewriting the facts is another matter entirely).

    Other areas, like balance and context, can be trickier.

    Mr. Tubbs, aye. If a model can't account for reality the model is a crock.

    A philosopher I knew once said that in the real world, theory is merely a tool for practicality. When you've got predictions of no snow ever again and then two of the worst winters in a century a few years later, said forecaster is a false prophet.

    Edited extra bit: * by this I mean it's a predictable failing, not something we should accept.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.

    He has been good. Realistic, genuinely responding to questions, explaining the brutal realities whilst making it clear he wishes it was not so. Has shown up both Raab and Boris in my opinion.
    Higher hurdles are available, tbf
    But not on the current front bench....
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,122

    DavidL said:

    O/T really interesting, if somewhat long, piece on climate change in the American west: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/summer-2021-climate-change-records/619887/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20210826&silverid=%%RECIPIENT_ID%%&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

    Basically, the heatwave in the western US this year was statistically impossible: it was simply beyond the parameters of any of the models. The knock on effects in wildfires, drought, loss of energy production and excess deaths caused by heat are all combining with each other in highly alarming ways. Climate change is not a future risk, its a current reality in an area of the US which still have a fast growing population.

    Hence the models are wrong. Like the bumblebees can’t theoretically fly effect.
    Why are they wrong is perhaps the interesting question. The tentative answer in the piece seemed to be that they underestimated the systemic effects of combined factors feeding on each other. The result has been something that was not predictable because it was outwith our prior experience. It suggests that things just might get even worse than we can imagine, Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns. It's worth a read if you have 10 minutes.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,099

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.

    He has been good. Realistic, genuinely responding to questions, explaining the brutal realities whilst making it clear he wishes it was not so. Has shown up both Raab and Boris in my opinion.
    Higher hurdles are available, tbf
    But not on the current front bench....
    Rhyme from 1804, referring to the booms put in place in the Thames estuary to thwart any Napoleonic invasion:

    If blocks can from danger deliver
    Two places are safe from the French.
    The one is the mouth of the river;
    The other the Treasury bench.

    Plus ca change...
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    My sister is a graduate of Moray House. When she was there would be teachers spent more than half their time learning Marxist based sociology with little to no relevance to the classroom. It frustrated her greatly. I am still trying to work out if this is more or less damaging than that.

    The extent of deterioration in Scottish education has moved from a cultural disaster to a profound future economic risk. Our children are no longer sufficiently adequately educated to be employable. It's tragic.
    One quote from that article

    ‘Further action was needed to address the predominantly white teaching workforce and racism which is rife in Scottish schools.’

    Omfg

    Scotland has a PREDOMINANTLY WHITE TEACHING WORKFORCE

    The horror of racism, right there
    For a country that's 96% white?

    I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,913
    O/t but anyone seen @isam this morning? In view of his/his girl-friend's possible problems.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    edited August 2021

    What happened yesterday was predictable, as was the Biden response. What specifically does he have in mind - flooding Afghanistan with troops and fighting the Taliban to be able to fight ISIS? Or perhaps a truce with the women-hating Taliban to get access to chase the bigger ISIS enemy?

    There are no good options now. Other than to complete the withdrawal with as little death as possible,

    It's a revenge thing not a strategic thing so I think they just get some intelligence on where the leadership of the Afghanistan ISIS franchise is and drop a bomb on them from the sky. The Taliban will presumably be helpful with information about where to find the people in question since they're fighting them too.

    Grave-looking press conference, grainy satellite footage, big smoking hole in the ground, dead brown people, and hey presto, the media will love Biden again.
    They'll bomb a wedding again...
    Probably worth the opprobrium. I imagine some weddings are perfect cover for a meet up of the great and good in terrorism. Chosen as a venue for that very reason.

    "They wouldn't da -"

    Boom.
    I was looking at google maps of Kabul the other day (just for fun/interest seeing the restaurants there now) and was quite surprised by the sheer number of wedding venues marked on the map. They outnumber the listed restaurants by about 4 to 1.
    The foodies' guide to Kabul!

    Oh God, you aren't yet another SeanT incarnation are you?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,099

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    My sister is a graduate of Moray House. When she was there would be teachers spent more than half their time learning Marxist based sociology with little to no relevance to the classroom. It frustrated her greatly. I am still trying to work out if this is more or less damaging than that.

    The extent of deterioration in Scottish education has moved from a cultural disaster to a profound future economic risk. Our children are no longer sufficiently adequately educated to be employable. It's tragic.
    One quote from that article

    ‘Further action was needed to address the predominantly white teaching workforce and racism which is rife in Scottish schools.’

    Omfg

    Scotland has a PREDOMINANTLY WHITE TEACHING WORKFORCE

    The horror of racism, right there
    For a country that's 96% white?

    I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
    It is amazing how many anti-racist activists are themselves incredibly racist.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    edited August 2021

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    My sister is a graduate of Moray House. When she was there would be teachers spent more than half their time learning Marxist based sociology with little to no relevance to the classroom. It frustrated her greatly. I am still trying to work out if this is more or less damaging than that.

    The extent of deterioration in Scottish education has moved from a cultural disaster to a profound future economic risk. Our children are no longer sufficiently adequately educated to be employable. It's tragic.
    One quote from that article

    ‘Further action was needed to address the predominantly white teaching workforce and racism which is rife in Scottish schools.’

    Omfg

    Scotland has a PREDOMINANTLY WHITE TEACHING WORKFORCE

    The horror of racism, right there
    For a country that's 96% white?

    I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
    Oh no. Is this going to become a White Men's Lives Matter thread?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    UK has lost 83% of its department stores in just five years.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58331168
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,955
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    My sister is a graduate of Moray House. When she was there would be teachers spent more than half their time learning Marxist based sociology with little to no relevance to the classroom. It frustrated her greatly. I am still trying to work out if this is more or less damaging than that.

    The extent of deterioration in Scottish education has moved from a cultural disaster to a profound future economic risk. Our children are no longer sufficiently adequately educated to be employable. It's tragic.
    One quote from that article

    ‘Further action was needed to address the predominantly white teaching workforce and racism which is rife in Scottish schools.’

    Omfg

    Scotland has a PREDOMINANTLY WHITE TEACHING WORKFORCE

    The horror of racism, right there
    For a country that's 96% white?

    I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
    Oh no. Is this going to become a White Men's Lives Matter thread?
    What do you think they mean by “address the predominantly white teaching workforce”? If it’s less than 96% white they will actually be underrepresented.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    Well there's a surprise:

    NEW: Green co-leader Patrick Harvie says he might use Ministerial cars if he joins the government

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1431149361707294725?s=20
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. Doethur, I believe Churchill predicted that.

    Mr. Topping, it's legitimate to state opposition to the deranged view that a mostly white country having mostly white teachers is some sort of racism.

    Idiots opposing male-dominated reading lists are also not necessarily blessed with awareness when it comes to classical history (I think you have to wait until the 12th century AD before Anna Komnene comes along).
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    My sister is a graduate of Moray House. When she was there would be teachers spent more than half their time learning Marxist based sociology with little to no relevance to the classroom. It frustrated her greatly. I am still trying to work out if this is more or less damaging than that.

    The extent of deterioration in Scottish education has moved from a cultural disaster to a profound future economic risk. Our children are no longer sufficiently adequately educated to be employable. It's tragic.
    One quote from that article

    ‘Further action was needed to address the predominantly white teaching workforce and racism which is rife in Scottish schools.’

    Omfg

    Scotland has a PREDOMINANTLY WHITE TEACHING WORKFORCE

    The horror of racism, right there
    For a country that's 96% white?

    I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
    Oh no. Is this going to become a White Men's Lives Matter thread?
    What do you think they mean by “address the predominantly white teaching workforce”? If it’s less than 96% white they will actually be underrepresented.
    How are we on the stats for, say, circuit judges or lawyers or chartered accountants?
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    edited August 2021
    Via https://twitter.com/Wahlrecht_de

    Sonntagsfrage von YouGov zur Bundestagswahl: SPD 24 % (+8) | CDU/CSU 22 % (-6) | GRÜNE 16 % | FDP 13 % | AfD 11 % | DIE LINKE 8 % | Sonstige 7 %

    Changes on last month

    Forschungsgruppe Wahlen / ZDF (Projektion): CDU/CSU 22 % (-6) | SPD 22 % (+3) | GRÜNE 20 % | AfD 11 % | FDP 10 % | DIE LINKE 6 % | FREIE WÄHLER 3 % | Sonstige 6 %

    Changes on two weeks ago

    This means that the last good poll for the Union was on 19 August and since then, the polls have one by one come to show between a 2% lead for the Union and a 2% lead for the SDP.

    If you backed Quincel's tip or mine, now would be an interesting time to cash out (@2.58 BF)

    I'm holding for now, though. I'm aiming for all the pollsters to come into line at small SPD leads and maybe an exit at ~ 1.8 SPD. I am also keeping an eye on their COVID figures as I believe this is a key driver (and not just leadership).
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,625

    Well there's a surprise:

    NEW: Green co-leader Patrick Harvie says he might use Ministerial cars if he joins the government

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1431149361707294725?s=20

    ----

    Asked if he was saying he would only use a ministerial car if it was absolutely necessary, he said.

    “Yes...if there’s ever a way of getting to where I’m going by public transport or by active travel that would always be my first choice.”

    ----

    What a strange thing to object to!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,955
    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    My sister is a graduate of Moray House. When she was there would be teachers spent more than half their time learning Marxist based sociology with little to no relevance to the classroom. It frustrated her greatly. I am still trying to work out if this is more or less damaging than that.

    The extent of deterioration in Scottish education has moved from a cultural disaster to a profound future economic risk. Our children are no longer sufficiently adequately educated to be employable. It's tragic.
    One quote from that article

    ‘Further action was needed to address the predominantly white teaching workforce and racism which is rife in Scottish schools.’

    Omfg

    Scotland has a PREDOMINANTLY WHITE TEACHING WORKFORCE

    The horror of racism, right there
    For a country that's 96% white?

    I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
    Oh no. Is this going to become a White Men's Lives Matter thread?
    What do you think they mean by “address the predominantly white teaching workforce”? If it’s less than 96% white they will actually be underrepresented.
    How are we on the stats for, say, circuit judges or lawyers or chartered accountants?
    I’d say the stats for teachers are the most relevant here, since they are claiming the predominantly white teaching workforce needs to be “addressed”.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Miss Vance, if he went by hot air balloon he could power it himself.
  • Options
    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.

    He has been good. Realistic, genuinely responding to questions, explaining the brutal realities whilst making it clear he wishes it was not so. Has shown up both Raab and Boris in my opinion.
    Absolutely agree (as pointed out in an earlier post). He has been very good and seems very genuine. He is also why I picked him as possibly the next one out of the cabinet as he seems to be very unhappy with what has happened, but he also seems to be the sort to see it through and not walk away. As Boris doesn't tend to fire people it is likely the next one out is a resignation and I wonder whether he will go when this is all wound up. Unlikely, but a possibility.

    As I have said before I am also very impressed with Grant Shapps over the last few years. I have a biased opinion against him because of his murky past, but I have to give him credit for putting his head above the parapet on numerous occasions in the last few years and always performing well. Most noticeably seeming to answer questions and not giving out bullshit in difficult situations.
    Shapps has impressed me in the past and iirc he also was part of Boris's leadership campaign team so might be up for promotion should a vacancy occur. However, he looks about 12 and until that changes, it is hard to see Shapps in the very top job.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    My sister is a graduate of Moray House. When she was there would be teachers spent more than half their time learning Marxist based sociology with little to no relevance to the classroom. It frustrated her greatly. I am still trying to work out if this is more or less damaging than that.

    The extent of deterioration in Scottish education has moved from a cultural disaster to a profound future economic risk. Our children are no longer sufficiently adequately educated to be employable. It's tragic.
    Come come now. Don’t morph into SeanT.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,625

    For JRM "fans" - a video of 12 year old Jacob being interviewed by French TV in the back of his Dad's Rolls
    https://twitter.com/Inafr_officiel/status/1430775768142028801

    He is the perfect man to sock it to the elite!
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, I'm highly suspicious of those keen on rewriting history through a modern political lens.

    My sister is a graduate of Moray House. When she was there would be teachers spent more than half their time learning Marxist based sociology with little to no relevance to the classroom. It frustrated her greatly. I am still trying to work out if this is more or less damaging than that.

    The extent of deterioration in Scottish education has moved from a cultural disaster to a profound future economic risk. Our children are no longer sufficiently adequately educated to be employable. It's tragic.
    One quote from that article

    ‘Further action was needed to address the predominantly white teaching workforce and racism which is rife in Scottish schools.’

    Omfg

    Scotland has a PREDOMINANTLY WHITE TEACHING WORKFORCE

    The horror of racism, right there
    For a country that's 96% white?

    I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
    Oh no. Is this going to become a White Men's Lives Matter thread?
    What do you think they mean by “address the predominantly white teaching workforce”? If it’s less than 96% white they will actually be underrepresented.
    How are we on the stats for, say, circuit judges or lawyers or chartered accountants?
    I’d say the stats for teachers are the most relevant here, since they are claiming the predominantly white teaching workforce needs to be “addressed”.
    Get out of that well, Rob. It is the bigger picture and teachers set children up for the rest of their lives hence the more for example non-white role models children encounter the better.

    Is this very difficult to understand?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,846
    Does this cartoonist read PB? Trigger warning...


  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,625

    Mildly interesting tweet, given recent posts on supermarkets..

    Samuel Jenkinson
    @samueljenkinson
    Meat and fish in British supermarkets is actually better than in Belgium. Not just by price, but also choice. It’s actually enraging me walking around how much more I pay for everything and what just isn’t available.
    4:14 PM · Aug 26, 2021 from Hull, England·Twitter for iPhone
    https://twitter.com/samueljenkinson/status/1430911583073538048

    Not found anywhere in the world which has as good a mix of range and prices as British supermarkets. It is not difficult to find cheaper or better, but yet to find both together.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244
  • Options

    UK has lost 83% of its department stores in just five years.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58331168

    That is a genuinely shocking figure.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    UK has lost 83% of its department stores in just five years.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58331168

    That is a genuinely shocking figure.
    Is it? What purpose do such stores serve today? Their clientele are dying.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,885

    O/t but anyone seen @isam this morning? In view of his/his girl-friend's possible problems.

    Morning

    Thanks for asking, Old King Cole

    She’s done another test and it’s another negative. She’s got conjunctivitis now though, and the only late night pharmacist open round here yesterday would not sell me anything to sort it because she’s preggers. Doctors appt at 4 and she’s leaning towards having the jab.

    Such a tricky decision the jab. She also has chronic migraines and so I worry about blood clotting
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited August 2021
    tlg86 said:

    UK has lost 83% of its department stores in just five years.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58331168

    That is a genuinely shocking figure.
    Is it? What purpose do such stores serve today? Their clientele are dying.
    The clientele might be dying, but in general it means homogenisation and loss of jobs disproportionately to a smaller group of online giants.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. Isam, my sympathies, sounds a very difficult situation.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,625
    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.

    He has been good. Realistic, genuinely responding to questions, explaining the brutal realities whilst making it clear he wishes it was not so. Has shown up both Raab and Boris in my opinion.
    Absolutely agree (as pointed out in an earlier post). He has been very good and seems very genuine. He is also why I picked him as possibly the next one out of the cabinet as he seems to be very unhappy with what has happened, but he also seems to be the sort to see it through and not walk away. As Boris doesn't tend to fire people it is likely the next one out is a resignation and I wonder whether he will go when this is all wound up. Unlikely, but a possibility.

    As I have said before I am also very impressed with Grant Shapps over the last few years. I have a biased opinion against him because of his murky past, but I have to give him credit for putting his head above the parapet on numerous occasions in the last few years and always performing well. Most noticeably seeming to answer questions and not giving out bullshit in difficult situations.
    Oh god, please not Shapps. To be fair he is their go to man for defending the indefensible.

    I think the cabinet press rota looks something like this:

    Good news - Boris, Rishi
    Bad news that is dull and wont lead to catastrophe - Sharma, Dowden, Eustace
    Very bad news about to be u-turned - Jenrick
    Very bad news that they want to stick to - Shapps
    Keep off the news if at all possible - Williamson, JRM
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,953
    edited August 2021

    Well there's a surprise:

    NEW: Green co-leader Patrick Harvie says he might use Ministerial cars if he joins the government

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1431149361707294725?s=20

    ----

    Asked if he was saying he would only use a ministerial car if it was absolutely necessary, he said.

    “Yes...if there’s ever a way of getting to where I’m going by public transport or by active travel that would always be my first choice.”

    ----

    What a strange thing to object to!
    You can absolutely bet the house that the same people screeching at this will be reenacting Munch’s The Scream when Harvie turns up with his bicycle clips to some semi official event.

    ‘The complete lack of RESPECT shown to Her Majesty…’
  • Options

    What happened yesterday was predictable, as was the Biden response. What specifically does he have in mind - flooding Afghanistan with troops and fighting the Taliban to be able to fight ISIS? Or perhaps a truce with the women-hating Taliban to get access to chase the bigger ISIS enemy?

    There are no good options now. Other than to complete the withdrawal with as little death as possible,

    It's a revenge thing not a strategic thing so I think they just get some intelligence on where the leadership of the Afghanistan ISIS franchise is and drop a bomb on them from the sky. The Taliban will presumably be helpful with information about where to find the people in question since they're fighting them too.

    Grave-looking press conference, grainy satellite footage, big smoking hole in the ground, dead brown people, and hey presto, the media will love Biden again.
    They'll bomb a wedding again...
    Probably worth the opprobrium. I imagine some weddings are perfect cover for a meet up of the great and good in terrorism. Chosen as a venue for that very reason.

    "They wouldn't da -"

    Boom.
    I was looking at google maps of Kabul the other day (just for fun/interest seeing the restaurants there now) and was quite surprised by the sheer number of wedding venues marked on the map. They outnumber the listed restaurants by about 4 to 1.
    The foodies' guide to Kabul!

    Oh God, you aren't yet another SeanT incarnation are you?
    I'd never buy flaked parmesan unless the shop had run out of the unadulterated stuff
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As you mentioned the Mail, for once, nails it.

    The Mail, as ever, is being idiotic. What happened 18 months ago was the Doha Agreement, where the US agreed to leave and in exchange the Taliban agreed to stop shooting at them.
    Of course, the agreement to pull out was signed by President Trump but whether this detail matters to American voters has yet to be seen. It might also be that these latest deaths are seen as vindication of withdrawal from what must seem to many to be a pointless war.
    It has taken us full circle back to the “we’re gonna get you for this” line from the movies that got us into this mess in the first place.
    That fundamental error was obvious to a lot of us twenty years ago. Tony Blair really was an appalling leader. That fact becomes more obvious with the passing of time.
    But it could have been done right. With the time and money spent by the US it would have been possible to train and arm a proper army. Most wars are fought and won in a quarter of the time.
    Winning wars requires more than training and arms. It requires hearts and minds. In fact the hearts and minds bit is a lot harder than the training and arms bit. (Which is why HYUFD’s tank ruse will never work.)
    Yes. Look at the Afghans mobbing Kabul airport, though. I don't think their hearts and minds are with the Taliban. And look for all its faults at British India and the size of the British Indian army. Its a cop out to say that the inscrutable easterner can never be won over to western ways.
    It matters not what bunch of mental cases runs Afghanistan , they will always being killing the other tribes who will be plotting to take over so they can do the same. It is a shithole not yet out of the dark ages and we should never have been there at any point. Why don't they concentrate on fixing the shithole they have created here rather than having grandoise ideas of saving Muslim countries from themselves and converting them.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    For JRM "fans" - a video of 12 year old Jacob being interviewed by French TV in the back of his Dad's Rolls
    https://twitter.com/Inafr_officiel/status/1430775768142028801

    He is the perfect man to sock it to the elite!
    To be fair, he seems slightly less annoying than those 12 year old Green / leftie activists who seem to know all the answers to the world’s problems…
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    edited August 2021

    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244

    Not just the Westminster govt - and an even tougher test:

    A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

    The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

    Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.

    An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion...."Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34565619

    Looks like the long grass beckons.....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2021
    Michel Barnier has launched a bid to become the next President of France. While we knew he would aim for the centre-right Republican’s candidacy, Barnier’s gone in hard on immigration, promising to “limit and have control over immigration”.

    “In these grave times, I have taken the decision and have the determination to stand… and be the president of a France that is reconciled, to respect the French and have France respected”

    Specifically, Barnier would implement a five-year ban on immigration and, “reform the EU” to curb regulations and bureaucracy.

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/27/michel-barnier-confirms-french-presidential-run-on-eurosceptic-anti-immigration-platform/

    Bloody racist Little Englanders Frenchers....
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,099
    edited August 2021

    Michel Barnier has launched a bid to become the next President of France. While we knew he would aim for the centre-right Republican’s candidacy, Barnier’s gone in hard on immigration, promising to “limit and have control over immigration”.

    “In these grave times, I have taken the decision and have the determination to stand… and be the president of a France that is reconciled, to respect the French and have France respected”

    Specifically, Barnier would implement a five-year ban on immigration and, “reform the EU” to curb regulations and bureaucracy.

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/27/michel-barnier-confirms-french-presidential-run-on-eurosceptic-anti-immigration-platform/

    Bloody racist Little Englanders Frenchers....

    The impact of Le Pen, again. He and Macron both seem to be pandering to, not her base exactly but her outer core.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,571
    edited August 2021

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.

    He has been good. Realistic, genuinely responding to questions, explaining the brutal realities whilst making it clear he wishes it was not so. Has shown up both Raab and Boris in my opinion.
    Absolutely agree (as pointed out in an earlier post). He has been very good and seems very genuine. He is also why I picked him as possibly the next one out of the cabinet as he seems to be very unhappy with what has happened, but he also seems to be the sort to see it through and not walk away. As Boris doesn't tend to fire people it is likely the next one out is a resignation and I wonder whether he will go when this is all wound up. Unlikely, but a possibility.

    As I have said before I am also very impressed with Grant Shapps over the last few years. I have a biased opinion against him because of his murky past, but I have to give him credit for putting his head above the parapet on numerous occasions in the last few years and always performing well. Most noticeably seeming to answer questions and not giving out bullshit in difficult situations.
    Oh god, please not Shapps. To be fair he is their go to man for defending the indefensible.

    I think the cabinet press rota looks something like this:

    Good news - Boris, Rishi
    Bad news that is dull and wont lead to catastrophe - Sharma, Dowden, Eustace
    Very bad news about to be u-turned - Jenrick
    Very bad news that they want to stick to - Shapps
    Keep off the news if at all possible - Williamson, JRM
    That is so spot on, particularly the 2nd line as I can't even remember Sharma and Dowden being interviewed.

    Also does that mean if Shapps becomes PM then we will be in permanent disaster mode, but defended impeccably.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    tlg86 said:

    UK has lost 83% of its department stores in just five years.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58331168

    That is a genuinely shocking figure.
    Is it? What purpose do such stores serve today? Their clientele are dying.
    That’s a bit harsh. Department stores serve a function, namely to cater to people who are not proficient / don’t feel comfortable with online shopping.

    It’s alright saying it’s all about the yoof but online shopping is a drag when you have to return anything. It is also not helped when, in things like shoes, sizes can vary, even from the same retailer.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,953

    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244

    Not just the Westminster govt - and an even tougher test:

    A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

    The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

    Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.

    An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion...."Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34565619

    Looks like the long grass beckons.....
    Fair enough, not much has happened since 2015.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Michel Barnier has launched a bid to become the next President of France. While we knew he would aim for the centre-right Republican’s candidacy, Barnier’s gone in hard on immigration, promising to “limit and have control over immigration”.

    “In these grave times, I have taken the decision and have the determination to stand… and be the president of a France that is reconciled, to respect the French and have France respected”

    Specifically, Barnier would implement a five-year ban on immigration and, “reform the EU” to curb regulations and bureaucracy.

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/27/michel-barnier-confirms-french-presidential-run-on-eurosceptic-anti-immigration-platform/

    Bloody racist Little Englanders Frenchers....

    The impact of Le Pen, again. He and Macron both seem to be pandering to, not her base exactly but her outer core.
    The craziest moment is when they basically accused Le Pen of not being anti-immigrant / anti-Muslim enough...
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.

    He has been good. Realistic, genuinely responding to questions, explaining the brutal realities whilst making it clear he wishes it was not so. Has shown up both Raab and Boris in my opinion.
    Very low bar though David, a turnip could show those two up.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    isam said:

    O/t but anyone seen @isam this morning? In view of his/his girl-friend's possible problems.

    Morning

    Thanks for asking, Old King Cole

    She’s done another test and it’s another negative. She’s got conjunctivitis now though, and the only late night pharmacist open round here yesterday would not sell me anything to sort it because she’s preggers. Doctors appt at 4 and she’s leaning towards having the jab.

    Such a tricky decision the jab. She also has chronic migraines and so I worry about blood clotting
    Good luck with it all, it sounds a difficult situation.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I believe some on here were worried about SNP membership numbers.

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1430830393259962373?s=19

    Membership of the SNP rose in the run up to the 2021 election.

    Accounts state the party had just over 105k members at the end of 2020, rising to more than 119k by the end of May.

    So much for a mass exodus to Alba.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    Biden's average approval rating is now the lowest at this stage of his Presidency of any President of the last 50 years with the exception of Trump and Bill Clinton. Trump of course was not re elected, which is a bad omen for Biden, Clinton was which shows he might still be able to recover before 2024.

    However both saw their parties lose the House and suffer heavy losses in their first midterms which is bad news for the Democrats next year
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244

    Not just the Westminster govt - and an even tougher test:

    A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

    The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

    Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.

    An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion...."Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34565619

    Looks like the long grass beckons.....
    Fair enough, not much has happened since 2015.
    In indyref2 polls it hasn't, Yes under 50% including don't knows in every poll, so little different from the 45% Yes of 2014.

    Hence Sturgeon is not pushing for an indyref2 now or anytime soon
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,122
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.

    He has been good. Realistic, genuinely responding to questions, explaining the brutal realities whilst making it clear he wishes it was not so. Has shown up both Raab and Boris in my opinion.
    Very low bar though David, a turnip could show those two up.
    Already been done Malcolm but the turnip is a nice touch.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,913
    edited August 2021
    isam said:

    O/t but anyone seen @isam this morning? In view of his/his girl-friend's possible problems.

    Morning

    Thanks for asking, Old King Cole

    She’s done another test and it’s another negative. She’s got conjunctivitis now though, and the only late night pharmacist open round here yesterday would not sell me anything to sort it because she’s preggers. Doctors appt at 4 and she’s leaning towards having the jab.

    Such a tricky decision the jab. She also has chronic migraines and so I worry about blood clotting
    Good Morning to you. Surprised she couldn't buy something for conjunctivitis, but some of my one-time colleagues can be over-cautious.
    At 32 weeks there's unlikely to be any harm which can come to the baby from the vaccine. However, I'm not on the register anymore, so don't have to keep myself up to date. As I said, a chat with the midwife would be my first choice.
    How long has she been with her current GP? And will it be face to face or telephone?

    Wish you ...... all three of you ...... well!
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,953
    Alistair said:

    I believe some on here were worried about SNP membership numbers.

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1430830393259962373?s=19

    Membership of the SNP rose in the run up to the 2021 election.

    Accounts state the party had just over 105k members at the end of 2020, rising to more than 119k by the end of May.

    So much for a mass exodus to Alba.

    Damn lies, the Electoral Commission obviously in the pay of Big Nat.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,953
    HYUFD said:

    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244

    Not just the Westminster govt - and an even tougher test:

    A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

    The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

    Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.

    An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion...."Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34565619

    Looks like the long grass beckons.....
    Fair enough, not much has happened since 2015.
    In indyref2 polls it hasn't, Yes under 50% including don't knows in every poll, so little different from the 45% Yes of 2014.

    Hence Sturgeon is not pushing for an indyref2 now or anytime soon
    What’s the change for No since 2014?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited August 2021
    kjh said:

    @IanB2

    You were correct in your post the other day.  What I thought was a case of Simpson's paradox wasn't as you pointed out, it was just basic misuse of data. I read up on it again today and can see why Robert thought it might be. My apologies for getting this wrong, in my defence it was new to me and looks very, very similar, but it is far far more subtle.

    I tried thinking of other ways to explain what HYUFD was getting wrong to him. I thought of an example of replacing schools and pupils with bags containing marbles (some large, some small) in two boxes. One box where the bags are a mix of marbles and one where the large marbles are all put in one bag and the other bags have the small ones. But he will just say it is another hypothetical and not understand that once you prove it fails in one hypothetical you have proved what you are doing is flawed for all situations (proof by contradiction). I even used a variable for the number of large and small marbles so it wasn't specific and could be used for any mix. Then decided 'what is the point'.

    I thought of other really silly examples; eg by comparing co-ed with non co-ed or by demonstrating that the more extreme you make the selection the more the results change without any changes in anything else i.e. nonsense.
    What puzzles me is why HYUFD doesn't sit back and think why are so many people on here telling me I am wrong and not go and check. 

    Also how does he not get that once you use a stat out of context its use is no longer factual. It was an obvious comparing apples with pears scenario or comparing a pre-selected subset of data from one sample to the whole set of another.

    He thinks a stat used out of contest is a fact when it isn't, yet a proof by contradiction he doesn't see is a fact when it is. He doesn't know what a fact is!

    Also I don't get the obsession of dismissing the use of maths and logic as being just a smart-arse as if it is something that should only be used in some academic circle and not real life. A bit like we have had enough of experts.

    Of course there are valid arguments that can be put in favour of Grammar schools, after all I am only expressing an opinion (not a fact).

    NerysHughes and his hospital face mask argument springs to mind as another example of a stat being completely misapplied and him not getting it when pointed out by so many on here.

    So despite your attempt to turn this site into Maths.com not PB.com still no answer from you for the fact the worst local authority areas for Oxbridge admission are in comprehensive areas and selective areas are all well above average for Oxbridge admission.
    https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/AccesstoAdvantage-2018.pdf (p 32)

  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    @IanB2

    You were correct in your post the other day.  What I thought was a case of Simpson's paradox wasn't as you pointed out, it was just basic misuse of data. I read up on it again today and can see why Robert thought it might be. My apologies for getting this wrong, in my defence it was new to me and looks very, very similar, but it is far far more subtle.

    I tried thinking of other ways to explain what HYUFD was getting wrong to him. I thought of an example of replacing schools and pupils with bags containing marbles (some large, some small) in two boxes. One box where the bags are a mix of marbles and one where the large marbles are all put in one bag and the other bags have the small ones. But he will just say it is another hypothetical and not understand that once you prove it fails in one hypothetical you have proved what you are doing is flawed for all situations (proof by contradiction). I even used a variable for the number of large and small marbles so it wasn't specific and could be used for any mix. Then decided 'what is the point'.

    I thought of other really silly examples; eg by comparing co-ed with non co-ed or by demonstrating that the more extreme you make the selection the more the results change without any changes in anything else i.e. nonsense.
    What puzzles me is why HYUFD doesn't sit back and think why are so many people on here telling me I am wrong and not go and check. 

    Also how does he not get that once you use a stat out of context its use is no longer factual. It was an obvious comparing apples with pears scenario or comparing a pre-selected subset of data from one sample to the whole set of another.

    He thinks a stat used out of contest is a fact when it isn't, yet a proof by contradiction he doesn't see is a fact when it is. He doesn't know what a fact is!

    Also I don't get the obsession of dismissing the use of maths and logic as being just a smart-arse as if it is something that should only be used in some academic circle and not real life. A bit like we have had enough of experts.

    Of course there are valid arguments that can be put in favour of Grammar schools, after all I am only expressing an opinion (not a fact).

    NerysHughes and his hospital face mask argument springs to mind as another example of a stat being completely misapplied and him not getting it when pointed out by so many on here.

    So despite your attempt to turn this site into Maths.com not PB.com still no answer for the fact the worst local authority areas for Oxbridge admission are in comprehensive areas and selective areas are all well above average for Oxbridge admission.
    https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/AccesstoAdvantage-2018.pdf (p 32)

    You haven't learnt that single data points rarely prove anything
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    @IanB2

    You were correct in your post the other day.  What I thought was a case of Simpson's paradox wasn't as you pointed out, it was just basic misuse of data. I read up on it again today and can see why Robert thought it might be. My apologies for getting this wrong, in my defence it was new to me and looks very, very similar, but it is far far more subtle.

    I tried thinking of other ways to explain what HYUFD was getting wrong to him. I thought of an example of replacing schools and pupils with bags containing marbles (some large, some small) in two boxes. One box where the bags are a mix of marbles and one where the large marbles are all put in one bag and the other bags have the small ones. But he will just say it is another hypothetical and not understand that once you prove it fails in one hypothetical you have proved what you are doing is flawed for all situations (proof by contradiction). I even used a variable for the number of large and small marbles so it wasn't specific and could be used for any mix. Then decided 'what is the point'.

    I thought of other really silly examples; eg by comparing co-ed with non co-ed or by demonstrating that the more extreme you make the selection the more the results change without any changes in anything else i.e. nonsense.
    What puzzles me is why HYUFD doesn't sit back and think why are so many people on here telling me I am wrong and not go and check. 

    Also how does he not get that once you use a stat out of context its use is no longer factual. It was an obvious comparing apples with pears scenario or comparing a pre-selected subset of data from one sample to the whole set of another.

    He thinks a stat used out of contest is a fact when it isn't, yet a proof by contradiction he doesn't see is a fact when it is. He doesn't know what a fact is!

    Also I don't get the obsession of dismissing the use of maths and logic as being just a smart-arse as if it is something that should only be used in some academic circle and not real life. A bit like we have had enough of experts.

    Of course there are valid arguments that can be put in favour of Grammar schools, after all I am only expressing an opinion (not a fact).

    NerysHughes and his hospital face mask argument springs to mind as another example of a stat being completely misapplied and him not getting it when pointed out by so many on here.

    So despite your attempt to turn this site into Maths.com not PB.com still no answer for the fact the worst local authority areas for Oxbridge admission are in comprehensive areas and selective areas are all well above average for Oxbridge admission.
    https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/AccesstoAdvantage-2018.pdf (p 32)

    You haven't learnt that single data points rarely prove anything
    They do when they effectively meet the very criteria kjh set for whether selective areas were beneficial or not.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    HYUFD said:

    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244

    Not just the Westminster govt - and an even tougher test:

    A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

    The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

    Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.

    An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion...."Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34565619

    Looks like the long grass beckons.....
    Fair enough, not much has happened since 2015.
    In indyref2 polls it hasn't, Yes under 50% including don't knows in every poll, so little different from the 45% Yes of 2014.

    Hence Sturgeon is not pushing for an indyref2 now or anytime soon
    What’s the change for No since 2014?
    Despite the fact only 38% of Scots voted for Brexit, No still leads most of the latest polls yes
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Just for @rcs1000 and his comments from a FPT on the California recall election. Some views:

    1. I think you’re right it will be tight. This is going to be a 52-53 / 47-48 decision (again);

    2. However, I think there is a decent chance Newsom loses. I don’t get the impression he’s got a strong support base outside wealthy liberal Californians. In terms of the recall, his opponents are certainly more fired up than the Democrat side. Judging from the polling, he has also got an issue with the Hispanic vote, which is just under 30pc of the electorate;

    3. One thing I’m not sure you mentioned but I may have missed is that the ballot wording / structure may also work in favour of someone like Larry Elder. There is a fair bit of anecdotal evidence that those opposed to the recall believe they only need to answer question 1 and not the second . If Newsom loses on the first question, a Republican candidate like Elder (or AN Other) therefore has a big advantage going into the second question;

    4. There is also the question of how much the Afghan situation impacts the recall. Newsom was hoping to get Biden and Harris to campaign for him in the final stages. That now looks unlikely, both given the hit to their ratings and their need to deal with what is happening. California is also home to a lot of current and ex-military personnel; maybe most importantly, Newsom was planning on an advertising blitz going into the recall but his message may be drowned out by the public being focused on the Afghan situation.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Listening to Ben Wallace on the radio. Quite a good performance. And all this week.

    What are the odds on the Cons appointing the second Jock Guard leader before Lab even has an ex-HDiv bod in the shadow cabinet.

    He has been good. Realistic, genuinely responding to questions, explaining the brutal realities whilst making it clear he wishes it was not so. Has shown up both Raab and Boris in my opinion.
    Very low bar though David, a turnip could show those two up.
    Already been done Malcolm but the turnip is a nice touch.
    Late to the scene David, but added value
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    I believe some on here were worried about SNP membership numbers.

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1430830393259962373?s=19

    Membership of the SNP rose in the run up to the 2021 election.

    Accounts state the party had just over 105k members at the end of 2020, rising to more than 119k by the end of May.

    So much for a mass exodus to Alba.

    Damn lies, the Electoral Commission obviously in the pay of Big Nat.
    Oh, you read the replies then.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Yes to Recall @4.4 seems like an outstanding value bet to me.

    I had been willing to back @3
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    tlg86 said:

    UK has lost 83% of its department stores in just five years.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58331168

    That is a genuinely shocking figure.
    Is it? What purpose do such stores serve today? Their clientele are dying.
    The clientele might be dying, but in general it means homogenisation and loss of jobs disproportionately to a smaller group of online giants.
    Saddening then. But presumably you've been to a high street in the last five years?

    I must admit when my local small chain department (Tudor Williams) was due to close down. I popped in a couple of times.

    It was like being in Are You Being Served? with a large number of staff keen to support your shopping experience, with a margin over most shops - let alone Amazon - of 20%. In its closing down sale I got 40% off and even then I didn't get a particularly good deal.

    In that case at least it is pretty obvious that the store had been surviving on a dwindling group of older people who were less likely to shop online and more likely to pay a premium for the experience. its decline was, therefore, absolutely inevitable.

    (Despite my reference to a 1970s sitcom I am in fact a verified young person (tm))
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,122
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244

    Not just the Westminster govt - and an even tougher test:

    A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

    The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

    Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.

    An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion...."Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34565619

    Looks like the long grass beckons.....
    Fair enough, not much has happened since 2015.
    In indyref2 polls it hasn't, Yes under 50% including don't knows in every poll, so little different from the 45% Yes of 2014.

    Hence Sturgeon is not pushing for an indyref2 now or anytime soon
    What’s the change for No since 2014?
    Despite the fact only 38% of Scots voted for Brexit, No still leads most of the latest polls yes
    I seriously doubt it had anything to do with Brexit and a lot more with Nicola as mother of the nation dominating the airwaves but yes had a lead for a chunk of last year and a revival in our second lockdown but the current trend seems to be against them.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,571
    edited August 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    @IanB2

    You were correct in your post the other day.  What I thought was a case of Simpson's paradox wasn't as you pointed out, it was just basic misuse of data. I read up on it again today and can see why Robert thought it might be. My apologies for getting this wrong, in my defence it was new to me and looks very, very similar, but it is far far more subtle.

    I tried thinking of other ways to explain what HYUFD was getting wrong to him. I thought of an example of replacing schools and pupils with bags containing marbles (some large, some small) in two boxes. One box where the bags are a mix of marbles and one where the large marbles are all put in one bag and the other bags have the small ones. But he will just say it is another hypothetical and not understand that once you prove it fails in one hypothetical you have proved what you are doing is flawed for all situations (proof by contradiction). I even used a variable for the number of large and small marbles so it wasn't specific and could be used for any mix. Then decided 'what is the point'.

    I thought of other really silly examples; eg by comparing co-ed with non co-ed or by demonstrating that the more extreme you make the selection the more the results change without any changes in anything else i.e. nonsense.
    What puzzles me is why HYUFD doesn't sit back and think why are so many people on here telling me I am wrong and not go and check. 

    Also how does he not get that once you use a stat out of context its use is no longer factual. It was an obvious comparing apples with pears scenario or comparing a pre-selected subset of data from one sample to the whole set of another.

    He thinks a stat used out of contest is a fact when it isn't, yet a proof by contradiction he doesn't see is a fact when it is. He doesn't know what a fact is!

    Also I don't get the obsession of dismissing the use of maths and logic as being just a smart-arse as if it is something that should only be used in some academic circle and not real life. A bit like we have had enough of experts.

    Of course there are valid arguments that can be put in favour of Grammar schools, after all I am only expressing an opinion (not a fact).

    NerysHughes and his hospital face mask argument springs to mind as another example of a stat being completely misapplied and him not getting it when pointed out by so many on here.

    So despite your attempt to turn this site into Maths.com not PB.com still no answer for the fact the worst local authority areas for Oxbridge admission are in comprehensive areas and selective areas are all well above average for Oxbridge admission.
    https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/AccesstoAdvantage-2018.pdf (p 32)

    You haven't learnt that single data points rarely prove anything
    They do when they effectively meet the very criteria kjh set for whether selective areas were beneficial or not.

    Nope I didn't. At no point have I used stats. Not once. I know my limitations.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,953
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244

    Not just the Westminster govt - and an even tougher test:

    A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

    The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

    Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.

    An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion...."Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34565619

    Looks like the long grass beckons.....
    Fair enough, not much has happened since 2015.
    In indyref2 polls it hasn't, Yes under 50% including don't knows in every poll, so little different from the 45% Yes of 2014.

    Hence Sturgeon is not pushing for an indyref2 now or anytime soon
    What’s the change for No since 2014?
    Despite the fact only 38% of Scots voted for Brexit, No still leads most of the latest polls yes
    Bit early for not answering the question?

    ‘You bloody fool, it’s never too early for HYUFD not to answer the question!’
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,099

    Alistair said:

    I believe some on here were worried about SNP membership numbers.

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1430830393259962373?s=19

    Membership of the SNP rose in the run up to the 2021 election.

    Accounts state the party had just over 105k members at the end of 2020, rising to more than 119k by the end of May.

    So much for a mass exodus to Alba.

    Damn lies, the Electoral Commission obviously in the pay of Big Nat.
    Oh, is that where this £600,000 has gone?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,913

    tlg86 said:

    UK has lost 83% of its department stores in just five years.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58331168

    That is a genuinely shocking figure.
    Is it? What purpose do such stores serve today? Their clientele are dying.
    The clientele might be dying, but in general it means homogenisation and loss of jobs disproportionately to a smaller group of online giants.
    Saddening then. But presumably you've been to a high street in the last five years?

    I must admit when my local small chain department (Tudor Williams) was due to close down. I popped in a couple of times.

    It was like being in Are You Being Served? with a large number of staff keen to support your shopping experience, with a margin over most shops - let alone Amazon - of 20%. In its closing down sale I got 40% off and even then I didn't get a particularly good deal.

    In that case at least it is pretty obvious that the store had been surviving on a dwindling group of older people who were less likely to shop online and more likely to pay a premium for the experience. its decline was, therefore, absolutely inevitable.

    (Despite my reference to a 1970s sitcom I am in fact a verified young person (tm))
    Competition isn't only from on-line is it. Shopping Villages, or the likes of Lakeside and Bluewater offer, perhaps, a better experience.
    After all, what is an Essex girls favourite wine...... I wanna go ter Lakeside!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    @IanB2

    You were correct in your post the other day.  What I thought was a case of Simpson's paradox wasn't as you pointed out, it was just basic misuse of data. I read up on it again today and can see why Robert thought it might be. My apologies for getting this wrong, in my defence it was new to me and looks very, very similar, but it is far far more subtle.

    I tried thinking of other ways to explain what HYUFD was getting wrong to him. I thought of an example of replacing schools and pupils with bags containing marbles (some large, some small) in two boxes. One box where the bags are a mix of marbles and one where the large marbles are all put in one bag and the other bags have the small ones. But he will just say it is another hypothetical and not understand that once you prove it fails in one hypothetical you have proved what you are doing is flawed for all situations (proof by contradiction). I even used a variable for the number of large and small marbles so it wasn't specific and could be used for any mix. Then decided 'what is the point'.

    I thought of other really silly examples; eg by comparing co-ed with non co-ed or by demonstrating that the more extreme you make the selection the more the results change without any changes in anything else i.e. nonsense.
    What puzzles me is why HYUFD doesn't sit back and think why are so many people on here telling me I am wrong and not go and check. 

    Also how does he not get that once you use a stat out of context its use is no longer factual. It was an obvious comparing apples with pears scenario or comparing a pre-selected subset of data from one sample to the whole set of another.

    He thinks a stat used out of contest is a fact when it isn't, yet a proof by contradiction he doesn't see is a fact when it is. He doesn't know what a fact is!

    Also I don't get the obsession of dismissing the use of maths and logic as being just a smart-arse as if it is something that should only be used in some academic circle and not real life. A bit like we have had enough of experts.

    Of course there are valid arguments that can be put in favour of Grammar schools, after all I am only expressing an opinion (not a fact).

    NerysHughes and his hospital face mask argument springs to mind as another example of a stat being completely misapplied and him not getting it when pointed out by so many on here.

    So despite your attempt to turn this site into Maths.com not PB.com still no answer for the fact the worst local authority areas for Oxbridge admission are in comprehensive areas and selective areas are all well above average for Oxbridge admission.
    https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/AccesstoAdvantage-2018.pdf (p 32)

    You haven't learnt that single data points rarely prove anything
    They do when they effectively meet the very criteria kjh set for whether selective areas were beneficial or not.

    Nope I didn't. At no point have I used stats. Not once. I know my limitations.
    No you haven't because you don't have any to refute the ones I produce.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244

    Not just the Westminster govt - and an even tougher test:

    A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

    The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

    Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.

    An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion...."Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34565619

    Looks like the long grass beckons.....
    Fair enough, not much has happened since 2015.
    In indyref2 polls it hasn't, Yes under 50% including don't knows in every poll, so little different from the 45% Yes of 2014.

    Hence Sturgeon is not pushing for an indyref2 now or anytime soon
    What’s the change for No since 2014?
    Despite the fact only 38% of Scots voted for Brexit, No still leads most of the latest polls yes
    I seriously doubt it had anything to do with Brexit and a lot more with Nicola as mother of the nation dominating the airwaves but yes had a lead for a chunk of last year and a revival in our second lockdown but the current trend seems to be against them.
    Yes had a brief clear lead before the vaccinations, as you say not because of Brexit, which has now evaporated
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    Scrapping the eastern leg of HS2 would be a disastrous decision. Billions have already been sunk into the railway, skills developed and land purchased. It would send a signal to much of the north that this is a Business As Usual Conservative government.....

    Anyone who argues England doesn’t need better infrastructure because “home working” is underestimating how much life will flip back after the pandemic. And they could do with spending a bit more time outside of the big cities - WFH is a mindset of a particular part of the economy...

    ...In 2020, the @ONS reckoned that just 13% in Burnley ever worked from home. Whereas in Richmond upon Thames, it was 71%. Big parts of the country that need Levelling Up the most had a very different pandemic experience to the dominant narrative.


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1431166521238343680?s=20
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,099
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    @IanB2

    You were correct in your post the other day.  What I thought was a case of Simpson's paradox wasn't as you pointed out, it was just basic misuse of data. I read up on it again today and can see why Robert thought it might be. My apologies for getting this wrong, in my defence it was new to me and looks very, very similar, but it is far far more subtle.

    I tried thinking of other ways to explain what HYUFD was getting wrong to him. I thought of an example of replacing schools and pupils with bags containing marbles (some large, some small) in two boxes. One box where the bags are a mix of marbles and one where the large marbles are all put in one bag and the other bags have the small ones. But he will just say it is another hypothetical and not understand that once you prove it fails in one hypothetical you have proved what you are doing is flawed for all situations (proof by contradiction). I even used a variable for the number of large and small marbles so it wasn't specific and could be used for any mix. Then decided 'what is the point'.

    I thought of other really silly examples; eg by comparing co-ed with non co-ed or by demonstrating that the more extreme you make the selection the more the results change without any changes in anything else i.e. nonsense.
    What puzzles me is why HYUFD doesn't sit back and think why are so many people on here telling me I am wrong and not go and check. 

    Also how does he not get that once you use a stat out of context its use is no longer factual. It was an obvious comparing apples with pears scenario or comparing a pre-selected subset of data from one sample to the whole set of another.

    He thinks a stat used out of contest is a fact when it isn't, yet a proof by contradiction he doesn't see is a fact when it is. He doesn't know what a fact is!

    Also I don't get the obsession of dismissing the use of maths and logic as being just a smart-arse as if it is something that should only be used in some academic circle and not real life. A bit like we have had enough of experts.

    Of course there are valid arguments that can be put in favour of Grammar schools, after all I am only expressing an opinion (not a fact).

    NerysHughes and his hospital face mask argument springs to mind as another example of a stat being completely misapplied and him not getting it when pointed out by so many on here.

    So despite your attempt to turn this site into Maths.com not PB.com still no answer for the fact the worst local authority areas for Oxbridge admission are in comprehensive areas and selective areas are all well above average for Oxbridge admission.
    https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/AccesstoAdvantage-2018.pdf (p 32)

    You haven't learnt that single data points rarely prove anything
    They do when they effectively meet the very criteria kjh set for whether selective areas were beneficial or not.

    Nope I didn't. At no point have I used stats. Not once. I know my limitations.
    No you haven't because you don't have any to refute the ones I produce.

    What would the point be, given you don’t accept facts that refute your arguments?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Michel Barnier has launched a bid to become the next President of France. While we knew he would aim for the centre-right Republican’s candidacy, Barnier’s gone in hard on immigration, promising to “limit and have control over immigration”.

    “In these grave times, I have taken the decision and have the determination to stand… and be the president of a France that is reconciled, to respect the French and have France respected”

    Specifically, Barnier would implement a five-year ban on immigration and, “reform the EU” to curb regulations and bureaucracy.

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/27/michel-barnier-confirms-french-presidential-run-on-eurosceptic-anti-immigration-platform/

    Bloody racist Little Englanders Frenchers....

    The effect of five years of banging his head against a brick wall on Brexit.

    "The Brits were right....."
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    I believe some on here were worried about SNP membership numbers.

    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1430830393259962373?s=19

    Membership of the SNP rose in the run up to the 2021 election.

    Accounts state the party had just over 105k members at the end of 2020, rising to more than 119k by the end of May.

    So much for a mass exodus to Alba.

    Damn lies, the Electoral Commission obviously in the pay of Big Nat.
    Oh, is that where this £600,000 has gone?
    Where is the pretendy husband, vanished from the face of the earth.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    @IanB2

    You were correct in your post the other day.  What I thought was a case of Simpson's paradox wasn't as you pointed out, it was just basic misuse of data. I read up on it again today and can see why Robert thought it might be. My apologies for getting this wrong, in my defence it was new to me and looks very, very similar, but it is far far more subtle.

    I tried thinking of other ways to explain what HYUFD was getting wrong to him. I thought of an example of replacing schools and pupils with bags containing marbles (some large, some small) in two boxes. One box where the bags are a mix of marbles and one where the large marbles are all put in one bag and the other bags have the small ones. But he will just say it is another hypothetical and not understand that once you prove it fails in one hypothetical you have proved what you are doing is flawed for all situations (proof by contradiction). I even used a variable for the number of large and small marbles so it wasn't specific and could be used for any mix. Then decided 'what is the point'.

    I thought of other really silly examples; eg by comparing co-ed with non co-ed or by demonstrating that the more extreme you make the selection the more the results change without any changes in anything else i.e. nonsense.
    What puzzles me is why HYUFD doesn't sit back and think why are so many people on here telling me I am wrong and not go and check. 

    Also how does he not get that once you use a stat out of context its use is no longer factual. It was an obvious comparing apples with pears scenario or comparing a pre-selected subset of data from one sample to the whole set of another.

    He thinks a stat used out of contest is a fact when it isn't, yet a proof by contradiction he doesn't see is a fact when it is. He doesn't know what a fact is!

    Also I don't get the obsession of dismissing the use of maths and logic as being just a smart-arse as if it is something that should only be used in some academic circle and not real life. A bit like we have had enough of experts.

    Of course there are valid arguments that can be put in favour of Grammar schools, after all I am only expressing an opinion (not a fact).

    NerysHughes and his hospital face mask argument springs to mind as another example of a stat being completely misapplied and him not getting it when pointed out by so many on here.

    So despite your attempt to turn this site into Maths.com not PB.com still no answer for the fact the worst local authority areas for Oxbridge admission are in comprehensive areas and selective areas are all well above average for Oxbridge admission.
    https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/AccesstoAdvantage-2018.pdf (p 32)

    You haven't learnt that single data points rarely prove anything
    They do when they effectively meet the very criteria kjh set for whether selective areas were beneficial or not.

    Nope I didn't. At no point have I used stats. Not once. I know my limitations.
    No you haven't because you don't have any to refute the ones I produce.

    What would the point be, given you don’t accept facts that refute your arguments?
    There rarely are any that do that, not that he ever even bothers posting facts anyway
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,099

    Scrapping the eastern leg of HS2 would be a disastrous decision. Billions have already been sunk into the railway, skills developed and land purchased. It would send a signal to much of the north that this is a Business As Usual Conservative government.....

    Anyone who argues England doesn’t need better infrastructure because “home working” is underestimating how much life will flip back after the pandemic. And they could do with spending a bit more time outside of the big cities - WFH is a mindset of a particular part of the economy...

    ...In 2020, the @ONS reckoned that just 13% in Burnley ever worked from home. Whereas in Richmond upon Thames, it was 71%. Big parts of the country that need Levelling Up the most had a very different pandemic experience to the dominant narrative.


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1431166521238343680?s=20

    The real issue with HS2’s eastern leg is twofold:

    1) the civil servants in the DfT don’t want it because they are essentially all mini-Marples obsessed with roads;

    2) The Civil Servants in the Treasury don‘t want it because their jobs are being slated to be moved to the north-east when it’s opened.

    This is entirely separate from the logistics and practicalities, and would hold good even if HS2 promised free Mars bars for all.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,953
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244

    Not just the Westminster govt - and an even tougher test:

    A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

    The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

    Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.

    An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion...."Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34565619

    Looks like the long grass beckons.....
    Fair enough, not much has happened since 2015.
    In indyref2 polls it hasn't, Yes under 50% including don't knows in every poll, so little different from the 45% Yes of 2014.

    Hence Sturgeon is not pushing for an indyref2 now or anytime soon
    What’s the change for No since 2014?
    Despite the fact only 38% of Scots voted for Brexit, No still leads most of the latest polls yes
    I seriously doubt it had anything to do with Brexit and a lot more with Nicola as mother of the nation dominating the airwaves but yes had a lead for a chunk of last year and a revival in our second lockdown but the current trend seems to be against them.
    Yes had a brief clear lead before the vaccinations, as you say not because of Brexit, which has now evaporated
    20 straight polls over 8 months is a brief lead? Okeydokey.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    Michel Barnier has launched a bid to become the next President of France. While we knew he would aim for the centre-right Republican’s candidacy, Barnier’s gone in hard on immigration, promising to “limit and have control over immigration”.

    “In these grave times, I have taken the decision and have the determination to stand… and be the president of a France that is reconciled, to respect the French and have France respected”

    Specifically, Barnier would implement a five-year ban on immigration and, “reform the EU” to curb regulations and bureaucracy.

    https://order-order.com/2021/08/27/michel-barnier-confirms-french-presidential-run-on-eurosceptic-anti-immigration-platform/

    Bloody racist Little Englanders Frenchers....

    Note that is a five year ban on non EEA immigration, there would still be free movement within the EEA.

    So Barnier while keeping free movement wants a far stricter immigration policy for non EU migrants
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,099
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    @IanB2

    You were correct in your post the other day.  What I thought was a case of Simpson's paradox wasn't as you pointed out, it was just basic misuse of data. I read up on it again today and can see why Robert thought it might be. My apologies for getting this wrong, in my defence it was new to me and looks very, very similar, but it is far far more subtle.

    I tried thinking of other ways to explain what HYUFD was getting wrong to him. I thought of an example of replacing schools and pupils with bags containing marbles (some large, some small) in two boxes. One box where the bags are a mix of marbles and one where the large marbles are all put in one bag and the other bags have the small ones. But he will just say it is another hypothetical and not understand that once you prove it fails in one hypothetical you have proved what you are doing is flawed for all situations (proof by contradiction). I even used a variable for the number of large and small marbles so it wasn't specific and could be used for any mix. Then decided 'what is the point'.

    I thought of other really silly examples; eg by comparing co-ed with non co-ed or by demonstrating that the more extreme you make the selection the more the results change without any changes in anything else i.e. nonsense.
    What puzzles me is why HYUFD doesn't sit back and think why are so many people on here telling me I am wrong and not go and check. 

    Also how does he not get that once you use a stat out of context its use is no longer factual. It was an obvious comparing apples with pears scenario or comparing a pre-selected subset of data from one sample to the whole set of another.

    He thinks a stat used out of contest is a fact when it isn't, yet a proof by contradiction he doesn't see is a fact when it is. He doesn't know what a fact is!

    Also I don't get the obsession of dismissing the use of maths and logic as being just a smart-arse as if it is something that should only be used in some academic circle and not real life. A bit like we have had enough of experts.

    Of course there are valid arguments that can be put in favour of Grammar schools, after all I am only expressing an opinion (not a fact).

    NerysHughes and his hospital face mask argument springs to mind as another example of a stat being completely misapplied and him not getting it when pointed out by so many on here.

    So despite your attempt to turn this site into Maths.com not PB.com still no answer for the fact the worst local authority areas for Oxbridge admission are in comprehensive areas and selective areas are all well above average for Oxbridge admission.
    https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/AccesstoAdvantage-2018.pdf (p 32)

    You haven't learnt that single data points rarely prove anything
    They do when they effectively meet the very criteria kjh set for whether selective areas were beneficial or not.

    Nope I didn't. At no point have I used stats. Not once. I know my limitations.
    No you haven't because you don't have any to refute the ones I produce.

    What would the point be, given you don’t accept facts that refute your arguments?
    There rarely are any that do that, not that he ever even bothers posting facts anyway
    The straits of Hormuz, the Ullapool Inverness ferry, the party status of Gwilym Lloyd George, the qualifications required to be an engineer, the Trump withdrawal from Afghanistan...

    By ‘rarely’ do you mean less than twice a day on average?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    A second Scottish independence referendum can take place if polling consistently shows 60 per cent of Scots desire a fresh vote, according to a Tory cabinet Minister.

    Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, has revealed that Boris Johnson will grant powers to hold a referendum if polling for a referendum, not necessarily independence, is consistently at 60 per cent.

    The figure builds on the recent statement from fellow Cabinet Minister Michael Gove, who is in charge of union policy, told the Sunday Mail that “if it is the case that there is clearly a settled will in favour of a referendum, then one will occur.”


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-can-take-24850244

    Not just the Westminster govt - and an even tougher test:

    A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

    The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

    Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.

    An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion...."Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34565619

    Looks like the long grass beckons.....
    Fair enough, not much has happened since 2015.
    In indyref2 polls it hasn't, Yes under 50% including don't knows in every poll, so little different from the 45% Yes of 2014.

    Hence Sturgeon is not pushing for an indyref2 now or anytime soon
    What’s the change for No since 2014?
    Despite the fact only 38% of Scots voted for Brexit, No still leads most of the latest polls yes
    I seriously doubt it had anything to do with Brexit and a lot more with Nicola as mother of the nation dominating the airwaves but yes had a lead for a chunk of last year and a revival in our second lockdown but the current trend seems to be against them.
    Yes had a brief clear lead before the vaccinations, as you say not because of Brexit, which has now evaporated
    20 straight polls over 8 months is a brief lead? Okeydokey.
    Considering the Brexit vote was over 5 years ago, No has still led for most of the time ahead since and is back ahead now it is and it only arrived for reasons to do with the lockdowns, nothing to do with Brexit.

    Hence the success of the vaccination programme has put No ahead again

  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,150
    Scott_xP said:

    UK says no more people will be called forward to the airport for evacuation.
    Defence Secretary @BWallaceMP: “It is with deep regret that not everyone has been able to be evacuated during this process”

    https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1431139079350071298

    Does this mean that there are people holding British passports British left in Afghanistan?
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As you mentioned the Mail, for once, nails it.

    The Mail, as ever, is being idiotic. What happened 18 months ago was the Doha Agreement, where the US agreed to leave and in exchange the Taliban agreed to stop shooting at them.
    Of course, the agreement to pull out was signed by President Trump but whether this detail matters to American voters has yet to be seen. It might also be that these latest deaths are seen as vindication of withdrawal from what must seem to many to be a pointless war.
    It has taken us full circle back to the “we’re gonna get you for this” line from the movies that got us into this mess in the first place.
    That fundamental error was obvious to a lot of us twenty years ago. Tony Blair really was an appalling leader. That fact becomes more obvious with the passing of time.
    But it could have been done right. With the time and money spent by the US it would have been possible to train and arm a proper army. Most wars are fought and won in a quarter of the time.
    Winning wars requires more than training and arms. It requires hearts and minds. In fact the hearts and minds bit is a lot harder than the training and arms bit. (Which is why HYUFD’s tank ruse will never work.)
    Yes. Look at the Afghans mobbing Kabul airport, though. I don't think their hearts and minds are with the Taliban. And look for all its faults at British India and the size of the British Indian army. Its a cop out to say that the inscrutable easterner can never be won over to western ways.
    Not just at the airport. According to reports yesterday at one land crossing with Pakistan, 25,000 people a day have been leaving the country.
This discussion has been closed.