As I have been pointing out the last several days the economy is recovering fast, jobs are being created very fast, wages are rising fast, areas of the country which have traditionally trailed behind London and the SE are doing better relatively. Vaccines remain a success story. The rest is just piss and wind in the echo chambers of Twitter where the hostile convince themselves with ever more bile that the end is certain and surely, inevitably, people will come to their senses and see that they were right all along.
I am genuinely struggling to see how Boris does not win the next election. It would require the wheels to come off in an almost biblical way. And for SKS to start sounding like an alternative instead of an echo chamber.
A lot can happen in 3 years. And whilst there is some success, the government doesn't look particularly stable in comparison to its predecessors. Lots of unknowns. The conservatives have been in power for over a decade. I've thought for a while, that for all of the above reasons the prospect of a labour government being elected in the near future is much higher than the odds suggest.
The Tories have reinvented themselves. This is not the government of Cameron and Osborne (sadly). This is an entirely new government based upon an entirely different electoral coalition which has been in power for just about 2 years. It is delusional to see it otherwise. Labour's "turn" will no doubt come but it is some way off.
Forgive me for probing, but I have never understood your enthusiasm for the government of Cameron and Osbourne. Would you say, for instance, that Chris Grayling was good as SofS for Justice?
(not to say that this lot are much of an improvement insofar as Justice is concerned)
But I don't disagree with the point you are making. All I am saying is that there is a lot of chaos and we can expect more, the Barnard Castle fiasco led to a significant drop in the opinion polls for the conservatives and we can expect more things like that.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
A good, but rather depressing read for those of us who want rid of Boris.
A depressing read for all of us. What kind of a country do we live in? I met two friends this week who are moving to Spain as soon as they sell their house. Who can blame them.
Remember Shakespeare's warning 'The evil that men do lives after them' . We aint seen nothin' yet!
I say this as a Remainer/Rejoiner. We are not going to get anywhere against Johnson while a large proportion of our number include utter utter bellends like this -
...snip...
What's the meaning of the 3.5% in their twitter names?
It relates to social research which concludes that a committed 3.5% of the population is sufficient to create political change by means of non-violent direct action, presumably forming a critical mass that then changes views in the other 96.5% by force of their example, rather than imposing the will of the 3.5% on the rest.
So I guess it's a claim from that individual that they see themselves as part of the 3.5%. Not sure that the research they are citing would have shown the same beneficial impact of 3.5% talking to itself on twitter, though.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Fine, I'm with you all the way, but how to we clone another Andy Burnham so one of them is available to take over from Starmer? As Manchester Mayor the lone existing Andy Burnham is unavailable.
Why? He can resign as Manchester Mayor as soon as he becomes prime minister.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Fine, I'm with you all the way, but how to we clone another Andy Burnham so one of them is available to take over from Starmer? As Manchester Mayor the lone existing Andy Burnham is unavailable.
Why? He can resign as Manchester Mayor as soon as he becomes prime minister.
He can’t be an MP and mayor of Greater Manchester at the same time can he?
Are we sliding back to Trash The Vaccines Hour on PB?
No one is trashing vaccines are they? The vaccines are undergoing the ultimate trial, not only are they working, but appear to be doing a brilliant job.
IMO Things are in the next stage, firstly get the virologists off the 24 hour news, the vaccines have broken the link between them and relevancy. We need behaviour psychologists for the answers to the next phase followed by economists for the stage after.
Everything, opinions, decision making, seems to dip in and out of irrational modes of thinking where we can only assess the ethics of behaviour once the frenzy has passed. Remember the rallying around the flag bounce at the beginning of this? What sort of rational thinking does a mind do in that mode? The same irrationality has persisted all through the crisis. We are at stage now where this evenings press conference was all about behaviours, it was a word used a lot.
My question to you anabobzina is do you not think it important now, to align work of vaccines with the right behaviour from everyone? Jabbing something in an arm is as easy as taking horse to water. The next bit is the difficult bit. Do you see what I mean?
Nor is it over in pain terms of the economics. Irregular growth patterns and persistent inflationary pressures could cause real pain and ruin in coming years. Inflation pressure could come from more difficult sourcing of materials, unless the sourcing issue doesn’t settle down it could hold inflation for longer, that impacts debt payments linked to price inflation, in turn spooks the markets.
Something as big and unplanned for as this wasn’t just going to go back to normal over night.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Fine, I'm with you all the way, but how to we clone another Andy Burnham so one of them is available to take over from Starmer? As Manchester Mayor the lone existing Andy Burnham is unavailable.
Why? He can resign as Manchester Mayor as soon as he becomes prime minister.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Fine, I'm with you all the way, but how to we clone another Andy Burnham so one of them is available to take over from Starmer? As Manchester Mayor the lone existing Andy Burnham is unavailable.
Why? He can resign as Manchester Mayor as soon as he becomes prime minister.
He can’t be an MP and mayor of Greater Manchester at the same time can he?
Correct.
He holds the role of police commissioner (or whatever the term is) which MPs are not allowed to hold.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I think @MaxPB has come up with an interesting idea that mainly applies to over generous public sector schemes. Re your mother the employer received tax relief on the contributions and your mother did not have to pay any tax on the benefit. Often with DB the employer contribution had to be very large hence most companies bailing out so is often a big tax free benefit that a DC employee can only dream of getting.
But treating pensions as deferred income, for the purposes of taxation, has been pretty universal. With some limits, to be sure, but whether the DB employer has to put a lot of (untaxed) cash in to deliver the (taxed) benefits down the line, or whether a DC employer matches (untaxed) contributions now to deliver (taxed) benefits down the line, is pretty much the same thing from the point of view of tax. The DB was just a more generous employer offer; DC employers are free to do the same (within the annual allowance) if they want.
They should probably update the AA calculations regarding DB entitlement, though.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I did say public sector fatcats.
Cue wave of early retirements...
It's not going to help them avoid paying the additional tax. If anything we'd probably see lengthened careers so the DB is paid at a slightly higher rate to offset the large tax rise.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I did say public sector fatcats.
Cue wave of early retirements...
It's not going to help them avoid paying the additional tax. If anything we'd probably see lengthened careers so the DB is paid at a slightly higher rate to offset the large tax rise.
"almost there"
Whitehall translation: "miles apart with furious rowing"
Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference today, 19 July. About 60% of hospitalisations from covid are not from double vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from covid are currently from unvaccinated people.
My eldest tells me the Lib Dems have pledged to fight any requirement for a vaccine passport for clubs - he is now voting yellow
LibDems finally have something to seriously campaign on that will get attention.
Vaccine passport is a digital id in all but name, the uses of which will widened every year whilst every senior politician tell us they have no plan to do x or y with it.
Beggars belief that is Johnson of all people, the old libertarian lounge lizard himself, who will go down in history as the guy who introduced them.
I intend to resist.
I'm with you. I have no intention of showing a "passport" to go anywhere, except to cross an international border.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Fine, I'm with you all the way, but how do we clone another Andy Burnham so one of them is available to take over from Starmer? As Manchester Mayor the lone existing Andy Burnham is unavailable.
We need to find a way Comrade.
Your stock response to any criticism of SKS is Richard Burgon would be worse
We agree on that but as he will never be leader its a silly response.
So we need to find a unity candidate with better skills than Starmer or we are completely sunk.
Maybe we should sit down with a pint and see who we can both support. Cannot be associated with the Momentum or Progress wings. Ideally a proven track record and a unity figure
How about Ed Milliband? See its not easy Andy Burnham has to be cloned.
Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference today, 19 July. About 60% of hospitalisations from covid are not from double vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from covid are currently from unvaccinated people.
What a mistake. 😰
And not one member of the media picked it up and queried it, but the people here twigged about it instantly.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Fine, I'm with you all the way, but how to we clone another Andy Burnham so one of them is available to take over from Starmer? As Manchester Mayor the lone existing Andy Burnham is unavailable.
Why? He can resign as Manchester Mayor as soon as he becomes prime minister.
He can’t be an MP and mayor of Greater Manchester at the same time can he?
Correct.
He holds the role of police commissioner (or whatever the term is) which MPs are not allowed to hold.
A party leader doesn't have to be an MP, although I'm not sure what the rules of the Labour Party are (I found it bizarre that the Lib Dem leader had to resign when she lost her seat). We generally allow politicians to do two jobs simultaneously. Much of it could be delegated anyway, obvs Labour would need a Leader in the Commons. Just like the SNP has.
My eldest tells me the Lib Dems have pledged to fight any requirement for a vaccine passport for clubs - he is now voting yellow
LibDems finally have something to seriously campaign on that will get attention.
Vaccine passport is a digital id in all but name, the uses of which will widened every year whilst every senior politician tell us they have no plan to do x or y with it.
Beggars belief that is Johnson of all people, the old libertarian lounge lizard himself, who will go down in history as the guy who introduced them.
I intend to resist.
I'm with you. I have no intention of showing a "passport" to go anywhere, except to cross an international border.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Fine, I'm with you all the way, but how to we clone another Andy Burnham so one of them is available to take over from Starmer? As Manchester Mayor the lone existing Andy Burnham is unavailable.
Why? He can resign as Manchester Mayor as soon as he becomes prime minister.
Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference today, 19 July. About 60% of hospitalisations from covid are not from double vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from covid are currently from unvaccinated people.
What a mistake. 😰
And not one member of the media picked it up and queried it, but the people here twigged about it instantly.
That's a relief, I hope it didn't sway anybody over to the antivaxx persuasion.
I think based on my experience today that it is game over for masks in public places. People take their mask off at the first indication that they can.
However at the same time I have been looking in to an FF43 mask for the first time, simply because I don't want to get the virus when out and about: being double jabbed I am not too worried about getting ill; I just want to avoid having to go in to self isolation as I have too much to do. I have also never downloaded the app for this reason, I am running a business which has involved managing a dangerous building during lockdown, any requirement to self isolate would have been potentially catastrophic.
I think that the requirement to self isolate needs to go as a priority. The fact that it is a legal requirement to self isolate when told to do so under the threat of a £10,000 penalty is absolutely insane. The only logical response is to not put yourself in a position where you are asked to self isolate; and to this you never take a test, never download the app, never leave details anywhere. The government must surely realise that this is exactly the conclusion that tens of millions of people have come to, even though they would never admit it. It really hampers any prospect of controlling the virus.
I didn’t actually realise you were theoretically at risk of a £10k fine for failing to isolate when pinged. Have any such fines ever been issued?
I think that the pinging is unenforceable as they can't know you have been pinged (hence their failed attempts to develop the app themselves).
But if you recieve a positive test result or are told to isolate by test and trace yes it is a definetly legal requirement, there is theoretically a 1k penalty which rises to 10k if you keep breaking the isolation period. Although I don't think this has ever been successfully enforced, to date.
So 40% of admissions are from double vaccinated people? That still seems astonishingly high.
No, the data point is 60% are from unvaccinated. That means 40% are from partially vaccinated and double vaccinated people. Given what we know from previous data in this series of 12% and 15% being double jabbed it's likely to be somewhere around that number.
Sky News have a good report showing what happened with the failure of security at Wembley.
Every one of those 'fans' who can be identified, without exception, who forced their way into the stadium should get a football banning order and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference today, 19 July. About 60% of hospitalisations from covid are not from double vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from covid are currently from unvaccinated people.
What a mistake. 😰
And not one member of the media picked it up and queried it, but the people here twigged about it instantly.
It seems to have been picked up by American antivaxxers too…
Only for a year. He's back there now every week blathering on about being this century's Churchill while she just rolls her eyes and keeps an eye on her watch.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I did say public sector fatcats.
The trouble is, that won't bring very much in, as very few Public Sector fat cats exist, Most Civil Servants don't earn £60k per year when working,
1) People know that dealing with a pandemic is extremely difficult and are willing to give the government the benefit of the doubt 2) If you look at the countries we would naturally benchmark ourselves against - US, FR, DE, IT, ES only Germany has a significantly lower death rate.
Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference today, 19 July. About 60% of hospitalisations from covid are not from double vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from covid are currently from unvaccinated people.
What a mistake. 😰
And not one member of the media picked it up and queried it, but the people here twigged about it instantly.
Everyone surely knows by now that Vallance is a fucking muppet
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I did say public sector fatcats.
The trouble is, that won't bring very much in, as very few Public Sector fat cats exist, Most Civil Servants don't earn £60k per year when working,
Put DB schemes on income tax rates of 30% and 50%. It would raise a significant amount of money. Enough to not need to put taxes up on working people for social care.
My point is, what is difference between Boris and May proposal for you to say that? Unless you think it’s just 1% income tax funding it, which I don’t think is true.
Both have a tax element funding them. Both a basement level where the scheme kicks in (50 under dilmot, 100K for May, tbc under Boris and Rishi).
You say it is better, what is the difference making it better?
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I did say public sector fatcats.
The trouble is, that won't bring very much in, as very few Public Sector fat cats exist, Most Civil Servants don't earn £60k per year when working,
Total disgrace if this only falls on the shoulders of the working age population.
1% tax rise in National Insurance being a 2% tax rise of course. 😡👎
Why is 1% NI 2% tax rise?
Anyway, disagreement with this policy without putting forward alternative policy is not acceptable - the financial black hole extent of this problem going forward, quirks and unfairness in current arrangement has to be addressed. So no nitpicking of what Boris government supported in key votes by Labour are going to push through, the status quo has to improve, you can only object presenting an alternative.
Having said that, I think something is being missed here - the Sun focussing on the election busting tax hike, but what I want to know, in the plan has to be a basement figure, dimnot had it at 50K May at 100, this whole thing won’t be funded by tax alone, so what is the basement figure?
The Torys are ahead because Boris is having a brilliant week. The lefty’s in this room loved his levelling up speech; he used Freedom Day to reveal his Covid passport plan, polls will show huge majority for extending the passport for entering all pubs and indoor social spaces this winter; and Boris is on the verge of getting something very similar to May’s plan for sorting out social care funding through the commons, after the next queens speech.
NI is the most contemptible, disreputable and dishonest of all our taxes - and every 1% is really 2%.
So-called "1% on National Insurance" is really 1% on Employee National Insurance and 1% on Employer National Insurance. So its really 2% on Income Tax, being masked as 1%.
Any "Employer National Insurance" comes from a companies labour budget so is a tax on wages every bit as much as a tax on incomes - because it is a tax on incomes, its just a pervertedly hidden one.
The employer and employee rates aren't linked so it need not happen but I would be gobsmaked if you were not correct. It's the normal sneaky things govts do to hide a tax. Gordon Brown was the master with the 1% NI above the top threshold, effectively income tax by any other name having promised not to increase income tax, and the withholding tax trick that buggered pension funds, a tax on employees they never see until their fund moves into the PPF many years later. The man was a menace.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I did say public sector fatcats.
The trouble is, that won't bring very much in, as very few Public Sector fat cats exist, Most Civil Servants don't earn £60k per year when working,
Total disgrace if this only falls on the shoulders of the working age population.
My eldest tells me the Lib Dems have pledged to fight any requirement for a vaccine passport for clubs - he is now voting yellow
Easy win for the LDs because vaccine passports for clubs is a solid gold Not Happening Event. It's just a rhetorical threat to get more young people to roll their sleeve up and close their eyes and think of England.
Sky News have a good report showing what happened with the failure of security at Wembley.
Every one of those 'fans' who can be identified, without exception, who forced their way into the stadium should get a football banning order and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
This could have been another Hillsborough.
Would have been. But for the capacity limits. Alternatively, there'd have been c 5 000 ticketed fans, having paid many hundreds of pounds, locked out and angry. There needs to be a wider enquiry than just banning fans though.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Fine, I'm with you all the way, but how do we clone another Andy Burnham so one of them is available to take over from Starmer? As Manchester Mayor the lone existing Andy Burnham is unavailable.
We need to find a way Comrade.
Your stock response to any criticism of SKS is Richard Burgon would be worse
We agree on that but as he will never be leader its a silly response.
So we need to find a unity candidate with better skills than Starmer or we are completely sunk.
Maybe we should sit down with a pint and see who we can both support. Cannot be associated with the Momentum or Progress wings. Ideally a proven track record and a unity figure
How about Ed Milliband? See its not easy Andy Burnham has to be cloned.
I voted for Ed Milliband for Leader instead of his brother when I was still a member.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I did say public sector fatcats.
The trouble is, that won't bring very much in, as very few Public Sector fat cats exist, Most Civil Servants don't earn £60k per year when working,
Total disgrace if this only falls on the shoulders of the working age population.
Absolutely.
8% pay rise for Pensioners too
And a year and half of youth pissed into the wind to keep them safe.
Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference today, 19 July. About 60% of hospitalisations from covid are not from double vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from covid are currently from unvaccinated people.
What a mistake. 😰
And not one member of the media picked it up and queried it, but the people here twigged about it instantly.
That's a relief, I hope it didn't sway anybody over to the antivaxx persuasion.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Fine, I'm with you all the way, but how do we clone another Andy Burnham so one of them is available to take over from Starmer? As Manchester Mayor the lone existing Andy Burnham is unavailable.
We need to find a way Comrade.
Your stock response to any criticism of SKS is Richard Burgon would be worse
We agree on that but as he will never be leader its a silly response.
So we need to find a unity candidate with better skills than Starmer or we are completely sunk.
Maybe we should sit down with a pint and see who we can both support. Cannot be associated with the Momentum or Progress wings. Ideally a proven track record and a unity figure
How about Ed Milliband? See its not easy Andy Burnham has to be cloned.
I voted for Ed Milliband for Leader instead of his brother when I was still a member.
One of my more foolish errors.
So give me a name that both of us can get behind.
I go for ANDY BURNHAM despite his current unavailability but am happy to consider others
So 40% of admissions are from double vaccinated people? That still seems astonishingly high.
No, 60% unvaccinated doesn't mean 40% double vaccinated.
You’re right. Do we know what percentage are double vaxxed though?
So, 60% of people (and that's the 60% who are most vulnerable) are double vaccinated.
Even if 60% of admissions were from double vaccinated, that would still show good vaccine efficacy, because this is the group that should have made you 85% of admissions prior to vaccinations.
But that isn't the case. Somewhere in the low double digits of people who are admitted are double vaccinated, against the 85% you'd expect if the vaccines were ineffective.
Because, also, the total number hospitalized relative to case rate is down, you have to be a little more sophisticated with the maths. Nevertheless, given the 60% most vulnerable are only 12-15% of hospital admissions, we can peg efficacy against serious disease at 90-95%.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I did say public sector fatcats.
The trouble is, that won't bring very much in, as very few Public Sector fat cats exist, Most Civil Servants don't earn £60k per year when working,
Put DB schemes on income tax rates of 30% and 50%. It would raise a significant amount of money. Enough to not need to put taxes up on working people for social care.
I worked in the public sector for about a decade, so I have a final salary pension preserved from my time there, but given that my final salary was at a fairly junior level it's not going to amount to much, and I received it as a quid pro quo for having a lower salary than I could go and earn in the private sector (as I am now doing). Bit unfair to tax my modest pension at a punitive rate.
I think based on my experience today that it is game over for masks in public places. People take their mask off at the first indication that they can.
However at the same time I have been looking in to an FF43 mask for the first time, simply because I don't want to get the virus when out and about: being double jabbed I am not too worried about getting ill; I just want to avoid having to go in to self isolation as I have too much to do. I have also never downloaded the app for this reason, I am running a business which has involved managing a dangerous building during lockdown, any requirement to self isolate would have been potentially catastrophic.
I think that the requirement to self isolate needs to go as a priority. The fact that it is a legal requirement to self isolate when told to do so under the threat of a £10,000 penalty is absolutely insane. The only logical response is to not put yourself in a position where you are asked to self isolate; and to this you never take a test, never download the app, never leave details anywhere. The government must surely realise that this is exactly the conclusion that tens of millions of people have come to, even though they would never admit it. It really hampers any prospect of controlling the virus.
I didn’t actually realise you were theoretically at risk of a £10k fine for failing to isolate when pinged. Have any such fines ever been issued?
I think that the pinging is unenforceable as they can't know you have been pinged (hence their failed attempts to develop the app themselves).
But if you recieve a positive test result or are told to isolate by test and trace yes it is a definetly legal requirement, there is theoretically a 1k penalty which rises to 10k if you keep breaking the isolation period. Although I don't think this has ever been successfully enforced, to date.
Wow. That I didn’t know.
It sounds like one of ‘laws’ that is essentially unenforceable but nevertheless is there.
I enjoyed reading what @Cyclefree had to say and I agree with it - although I'd venture to suggest that item 8 on her list is the most relevant, and stretches back well before Corbyn. The real trigger for the collapse of cultural Labour identification in what we've since come to call the Red Wall was Bigotgate. Blair sold a positive vision of Britain as a nation and as a people; Brown revealed what most metropolitan left-liberals really thought about provincial small-c conservatives.
The swing to the Left post-2015, Jeremy Corbyn's anti-patriotism, Emily Thornberry and the house with the England flags, Keir Starmer's attempt to push a second EU referendum and everything else merely resolved and crystallised the notion that Labour's leadership and most of its members had come to regard a vast section of its supporter base - modest-to-average income white people without university degrees - with naked contempt. Frankly, Labour is doing well to be polling as healthily as it still does under the circumstances.
Others will doubtless strongly disagree and suggest that I'm flat wrong, or at least exaggerate the problem, but we must ask ourselves what the reasons are as to why a Government as poor as that currently in office is not merely tolerated, but rewarded with healthy levels of support. Simply getting angry that large numbers of ex-Labour voters won't see the light and writing them off as thick really isn't helpful.
So 40% of admissions are from double vaccinated people? That still seems astonishingly high.
No, 60% unvaccinated doesn't mean 40% double vaccinated.
You’re right. Do we know what percentage are double vaxxed though?
So, 60% of people (and that's the 60% who are most vulnerable) are double vaccinated.
Even if 60% of admissions were from double vaccinated, that would still show good vaccine efficacy, because this is the group that should have made you 85% of admissions prior to vaccinations.
But that isn't the case. Somewhere in the low double digits of people who are admitted are double vaccinated, against the 85% you'd expect if the vaccines were ineffective.
Because, also, the total number hospitalized relative to case rate is down, you have to be a little more sophisticated with the maths. Nevertheless, given the 60% most vulnerable are only 12-15% of hospital admissions, we can peg efficacy against serious disease at 90-95%.
Nah, other way around. 60% are unvaccinated. Double jabbed rate is somewhere around 10-15%.
So 40% of admissions are from double vaccinated people? That still seems astonishingly high.
No, 60% unvaccinated doesn't mean 40% double vaccinated.
You’re right. Do we know what percentage are double vaxxed though?
So, 60% of people (and that's the 60% who are most vulnerable) are double vaccinated.
Even if 60% of admissions were from double vaccinated, that would still show good vaccine efficacy, because this is the group that should have made you 85% of admissions prior to vaccinations.
But that isn't the case. Somewhere in the low double digits of people who are admitted are double vaccinated, against the 85% you'd expect if the vaccines were ineffective.
Because, also, the total number hospitalized relative to case rate is down, you have to be a little more sophisticated with the maths. Nevertheless, given the 60% most vulnerable are only 12-15% of hospital admissions, we can peg efficacy against serious disease at 90-95%.
Wow. A fifty-something who almost died (and milked that fact for all it was worth) was still stupid enough to be blind to all the statistics he must have been patiently spoonfed.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
Sky News have a good report showing what happened with the failure of security at Wembley.
Every one of those 'fans' who can be identified, without exception, who forced their way into the stadium should get a football banning order and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
This could have been another Hillsborough.
Would have been. But for the capacity limits. Alternatively, there'd have been c 5 000 ticketed fans, having paid many hundreds of pounds, locked out and angry. There needs to be a wider enquiry than just banning fans though.
Indeed. Any legitimate fans that could have missed out is utterly contemptible and can happen surprisingly often, even though this is high profile and caught attention.
A few years ago for Christmas my wife got us tickets to see Monty Python for their live reunion 'we need to pay our tax bill' reunion tour. A legitimately once in a lifetime opportunity to see them perform. When we got there the staff scanned our tickets and they said there was an issue and we were held up for ages until eventually being let through - when we got to our seats there were two people sat in them already. We flagged the stewards and the four of us got taken to a desk where they tried to sort it out, us showing our tickets saying those seats and they somehow had tickets for the exact same seats too; though we could show on our phone the email showing proof of purchase direct from the ticketting company and they could not and got very shady when asked about where they'd purchased the seats from.
Not sure how they'd done it, but I'm fairly sure they knew they were trying it on. Eventually we were told to take our seats and we left them with the staff promising to find seats for them, despite them probably not having paid for seats in the first place. Something dodgy had happened either way, we hadn't gone through any reselling agency or anything it was bought direct from Ticketmaster [or whoever else it was selling them].
Had we been sent home, having spent hundreds on these seats (and train tickets to London and a hotel overnight etc too) and missed a once in a lifetime opportunity then I would have been absolutely disgusted. Same thing could have happened here to people at the final.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Fine, I'm with you all the way, but how do we clone another Andy Burnham so one of them is available to take over from Starmer? As Manchester Mayor the lone existing Andy Burnham is unavailable.
We need to find a way Comrade.
Your stock response to any criticism of SKS is Richard Burgon would be worse
We agree on that but as he will never be leader its a silly response.
So we need to find a unity candidate with better skills than Starmer or we are completely sunk.
Maybe we should sit down with a pint and see who we can both support. Cannot be associated with the Momentum or Progress wings. Ideally a proven track record and a unity figure
How about Ed Milliband? See its not easy Andy Burnham has to be cloned.
I voted for Ed Milliband for Leader instead of his brother when I was still a member.
One of my more foolish errors.
So give me a name that both of us can get behind.
I go for ANDY BURNHAM despite his current unavailability but am happy to consider others
Surely the problem isn't the leader. So you remove serkeir and replace him with whoever you like. Unless the party works out what it believes in AND that is something that the majority of voters are willing to back, whats the point?
The party does not have a smash hit manifesto being cruelly misrepresented by Starmer. It has a mountain of Corbyn baggage, an infestation problem that still puts people off, and no real feel for how to square the circle that their old core vote no longer believes the same things the party activists do. The front man isn't the problem.
I enjoyed reading what @Cyclefree had to say and I agree with it - although I'd venture to suggest that item 8 on her list is the most relevant, and stretches back well before Corbyn. The real trigger for the collapse of cultural Labour identification in what we've since come to call the Red Wall was Bigotgate. Blair sold a positive vision of Britain as a nation and as a people; Brown revealed what most metropolitan left-liberals really thought about provincial small-c conservatives.
The swing to the Left post-2015, Jeremy Corbyn's anti-patriotism, Emily Thornberry and the house with the England flags, Keir Starmer's attempt to push a second EU referendum and everything else merely resolved and crystallised the notion that Labour's leadership and most of its members had come to regard a vast section of its supporter base - modest-to-average income white people without university degrees - with naked contempt. Frankly, Labour is doing well to be polling as healthily as it still does under the circumstances.
Others will doubtless strongly disagree and suggest that I'm flat wrong, or at least exaggerate the problem, but we must ask ourselves what the reasons are as to why a Government as poor as that currently in office is not merely tolerated, but rewarded with healthy levels of support. Simply getting angry that large numbers of ex-Labour voters won't see the light and writing them off as thick really isn't helpful.
No you've got it right and its multiple wings of the party. The right never got the WC, thought they had nowhere else to go and treated them with disdain. The left aren't WC and have this bizarre image of what the WC should be that massively repels them.
My eldest tells me the Lib Dems have pledged to fight any requirement for a vaccine passport for clubs - he is now voting yellow
Easy win for the LDs because vaccine passports for clubs is a solid gold Not Happening Event. It's just a rhetorical threat to get more young people to roll their sleeve up and close their eyes and think of England.
Hmm. Colour me sceptical. That's what they want you to think.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
I thought ed conway was getting better.........."vaccines are 79% effective, so.you have a 21% chance of getting infected".....grrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhh....throwing things at telly.... extrapolates based on 21% of the population of vaccinated population getting covid....to the total cases of covid we might get....throws more stuff at the telly.
An interesting analysis in the lead, but there must be an important piece missing, since centre left parties across the developed world are in similar trouble, yet most of Cycle’s list are shorter term UK specific issues. I suspect some of her list are actually symptoms of a wider, broader issue.
Sky News have a good report showing what happened with the failure of security at Wembley.
Every one of those 'fans' who can be identified, without exception, who forced their way into the stadium should get a football banning order and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
This could have been another Hillsborough.
Would have been. But for the capacity limits. Alternatively, there'd have been c 5 000 ticketed fans, having paid many hundreds of pounds, locked out and angry. There needs to be a wider enquiry than just banning fans though.
Indeed. Any legitimate fans that could have missed out is utterly contemptible and can happen surprisingly often, even though this is high profile and caught attention.
A few years ago for Christmas my wife got us tickets to see Monty Python for their live reunion 'we need to pay our tax bill' reunion tour. A legitimately once in a lifetime opportunity to see them perform. When we got there the staff scanned our tickets and they said there was an issue and we were held up for ages until eventually being let through - when we got to our seats there were two people sat in them already. We flagged the stewards and the four of us got taken to a desk where they tried to sort it out, us showing our tickets saying those seats and they somehow had tickets for the exact same seats too; though we could show on our phone the email showing proof of purchase direct from the ticketting company and they could not and got very shady when asked about where they'd purchased the seats from.
Not sure how they'd done it, but I'm fairly sure they knew they were trying it on. Eventually we were told to take our seats and we left them with the staff promising to find seats for them, despite them probably not having paid for seats in the first place. Something dodgy had happened either way, we hadn't gone through any reselling agency or anything it was bought direct from Ticketmaster [or whoever else it was selling them].
Had we been sent home, having spent hundreds on these seats (and train tickets to London and a hotel overnight etc too) and missed a once in a lifetime opportunity then I would have been absolutely disgusted. Same thing could have happened here to people at the final.
Yep. Fortunately Monty Python wouldn't have about 5 000 mostly pissed and quite a few coked up young men. If this is swept under the carpet it raises issues for PL games. A full house and the game would have been off.
I enjoyed reading what @Cyclefree had to say and I agree with it - although I'd venture to suggest that item 8 on her list is the most relevant, and stretches back well before Corbyn. The real trigger for the collapse of cultural Labour identification in what we've since come to call the Red Wall was Bigotgate. Blair sold a positive vision of Britain as a nation and as a people; Brown revealed what most metropolitan left-liberals really thought about provincial small-c conservatives.
The swing to the Left post-2015, Jeremy Corbyn's anti-patriotism, Emily Thornberry and the house with the England flags, Keir Starmer's attempt to push a second EU referendum and everything else merely resolved and crystallised the notion that Labour's leadership and most of its members had come to regard a vast section of its supporter base - modest-to-average income white people without university degrees - with naked contempt. Frankly, Labour is doing well to be polling as healthily as it still does under the circumstances.
Others will doubtless strongly disagree and suggest that I'm flat wrong, or at least exaggerate the problem, but we must ask ourselves what the reasons are as to why a Government as poor as that currently in office is not merely tolerated, but rewarded with healthy levels of support. Simply getting angry that large numbers of ex-Labour voters won't see the light and writing them off as thick really isn't helpful.
No you've got it right and its multiple wings of the party. The right never got the WC, thought they had nowhere else to go and treated them with disdain. The left aren't WC and have this bizarre image of what the WC should be that massively repels them.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
8?
Fuck. 8.
Bit early for the Christmas crossword.
Is it Copulate?
Copulate's 9 letters ;-)
Congress could work.
Is everyone drunk? Copulate is 8 letters every time I count them.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
8?
Fuck. 8.
Bit early for the Christmas crossword.
Is it Copulate?
Copulate's 9 letters ;-)
Congress could work.
Copulate can be spelt with 7. Or six. There's a pretty diverse array of words and spellings to use.
Sky News have a good report showing what happened with the failure of security at Wembley.
Every one of those 'fans' who can be identified, without exception, who forced their way into the stadium should get a football banning order and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
This could have been another Hillsborough.
Would have been. But for the capacity limits. Alternatively, there'd have been c 5 000 ticketed fans, having paid many hundreds of pounds, locked out and angry. There needs to be a wider enquiry than just banning fans though.
Indeed. Any legitimate fans that could have missed out is utterly contemptible and can happen surprisingly often, even though this is high profile and caught attention.
A few years ago for Christmas my wife got us tickets to see Monty Python for their live reunion 'we need to pay our tax bill' reunion tour. A legitimately once in a lifetime opportunity to see them perform. When we got there the staff scanned our tickets and they said there was an issue and we were held up for ages until eventually being let through - when we got to our seats there were two people sat in them already. We flagged the stewards and the four of us got taken to a desk where they tried to sort it out, us showing our tickets saying those seats and they somehow had tickets for the exact same seats too; though we could show on our phone the email showing proof of purchase direct from the ticketting company and they could not and got very shady when asked about where they'd purchased the seats from.
Not sure how they'd done it, but I'm fairly sure they knew they were trying it on. Eventually we were told to take our seats and we left them with the staff promising to find seats for them, despite them probably not having paid for seats in the first place. Something dodgy had happened either way, we hadn't gone through any reselling agency or anything it was bought direct from Ticketmaster [or whoever else it was selling them].
Had we been sent home, having spent hundreds on these seats (and train tickets to London and a hotel overnight etc too) and missed a once in a lifetime opportunity then I would have been absolutely disgusted. Same thing could have happened here to people at the final.
Yep. Fortunately Monty Python wouldn't have about 5 000 mostly pissed and quite a few coked up young men. If this is swept under the carpet it raises issues for PL games. A full house and the game would have been off.
A full house and the empty seats 'opportunity' wouldn't have existed. The belief that there were empty seats that could be occupied drove this.
None of which is to lessen the shocking failure to arrange adequate stewarding and policing.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
8?
Fuck. 8.
Bit early for the Christmas crossword.
Is it Copulate?
Copulate's 9 letters ;-)
Congress could work.
Is everyone drunk? Copulate is 8 letters every time I count them.
In my defence, I've only had four glasses of wine. One, two, two, three, three and one more that makes four.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I think @MaxPB has come up with an interesting idea that mainly applies to over generous public sector schemes. Re your mother the employer received tax relief on the contributions and your mother did not have to pay any tax on the benefit. Often with DB the employer contribution had to be very large hence most companies bailing out so is often a big tax free benefit that a DC employee can only dream of getting.
But treating pensions as deferred income, for the purposes of taxation, has been pretty universal. With some limits, to be sure, but whether the DB employer has to put a lot of (untaxed) cash in to deliver the (taxed) benefits down the line, or whether a DC employer matches (untaxed) contributions now to deliver (taxed) benefits down the line, is pretty much the same thing from the point of view of tax. The DB was just a more generous employer offer; DC employers are free to do the same (within the annual allowance) if they want.
They should probably update the AA calculations regarding DB entitlement, though.
--AS
I don't disagree with any of that (how can I as it is factually correct), but invariably the employer contribution to the DB scheme is much bigger so providing the employee with a bigger benefit. In addition there is likely a tax benefit as the marginal tax rate is likely higher in employment than retirement plus there is the tax free lump sum. Applies to DC as well but the employer contribution is likely much lower.
The employer may well still be contributing to the DB pension after retirement.
The big change in August has already been announced.
That its been brought forwards for some does indeed suggest that it going ahead for those already confirmed in August will happen. There'll be outrage and hell to pay if there is any retreat on this now.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
8?
Fuck. 8.
Bit early for the Christmas crossword.
Is it Copulate?
Copulate's 9 letters ;-)
Congress could work.
Is everyone drunk? Copulate is 8 letters every time I count them.
In my defence, I've only had four glasses of wine. One, two, two, three, three and one more that makes four.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
8?
Fuck. 8.
Bit early for the Christmas crossword.
Is it Copulate?
Copulate's 9 letters ;-)
Congress could work.
Copulate can be spelt with 7. Or six. There's a pretty diverse array of words and spellings to use.
Get everyone to pay it, including the oldies, and it might wash.
After all this is for care when you're in your early 80s for the last 2-3 years of your life.
Except that NI, of course, is conveniently not paid by pensioners.
That's my point. You'd have to extend NI to pensioners (at least at 2% levels) for this to wash.
As an aside, I don't like tax rises on working people. Last thing they need.
I'd introduce a 10% additional income tax rate on defined benefit pensions schemes phased in over 10 years at an additional 1% per year. Essentially the government recouping the cost of public sector DB schemes on the other side.
Why should beneficiaries of private sector DB schemes be penalised?
The scheme my mother is in was funded entirely by employer contributions and is currently in surplus.
I think @MaxPB has come up with an interesting idea that mainly applies to over generous public sector schemes. Re your mother the employer received tax relief on the contributions and your mother did not have to pay any tax on the benefit. Often with DB the employer contribution had to be very large hence most companies bailing out so is often a big tax free benefit that a DC employee can only dream of getting.
But treating pensions as deferred income, for the purposes of taxation, has been pretty universal. With some limits, to be sure, but whether the DB employer has to put a lot of (untaxed) cash in to deliver the (taxed) benefits down the line, or whether a DC employer matches (untaxed) contributions now to deliver (taxed) benefits down the line, is pretty much the same thing from the point of view of tax. The DB was just a more generous employer offer; DC employers are free to do the same (within the annual allowance) if they want.
They should probably update the AA calculations regarding DB entitlement, though.
--AS
I don't disagree with any of that (how can I as it is factually correct), but invariably the employer contribution to the DB scheme is much bigger so providing the employee with a bigger benefit. In addition there is likely a tax benefit as the marginal tax rate is likely higher in employment than retirement plus there is the tax free lump sum. Applies to DC as well but the employer contribution is likely much lower.
The employer may well still be contributing to the DB pension after retirement.
I thought that for private companies, at retirement the DB pension is provided by buying an annuity from the pension fund. No further liability from the employer for that employee after retirement.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
8?
Fuck. 8.
Bit early for the Christmas crossword.
Is it Copulate?
Copulate's 9 letters ;-)
Congress could work.
Copulate is eight letters!
Self-styled betting experts trying to work out how many letters there are in a word.
Is everyone drunk? Copulate is 8 letters every time I count them.
Well, this is a new and very entertaining game. I come on to PB, see this comment, and am now trying to guess (without cheating by clicking on 'Show previous quotes') what could possibly have been the exchange which led up to it.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
8?
Fuck. 8.
Bit early for the Christmas crossword.
Is it Copulate?
Copulate's 9 letters ;-)
Congress could work.
Copulate is eight letters!
Self-styled betting experts trying to work out how many letters there are in a word.
Is everyone drunk? Copulate is 8 letters every time I count them.
Well, this is a new and very entertaining game. I come on to PB, see this comment, and am now trying to guess (without cheating by clicking on 'Show previous quotes') what could possibly have been the exchange which led up to it.
It's definitely one of the more bizarre sub-threads... to which my inability to count up to 10 inadvertently added a further twist.
What we need is some raging Trot to lead the Party and send the Labour figures through the roof. Now there's a thought. Why did the party never think of that before? What? We did try that before. So what happened?
Is Andy Burnham a "raging Trot?"
What we need is a competent leader with an actual personality like Andy Burnham
What we need is a competent leader with some actual policies like Andy Burnham
What we need is not to be to the right of the Tories on NHS pay. Funding Social Care etc as Andy Burnham isnt
What we need now is a unifying figure as leader like Andy Burnham
SKS fails on every single count.
If you cant see he is shit now Pete what will it take?
Andy Burnham is about as available as Clement Attlee. Politics is the art of the ------- (7 letters).
8?
Fuck. 8.
Bit early for the Christmas crossword.
Is it Copulate?
Copulate's 9 letters ;-)
Congress could work.
Copulate can be spelt with 7. Or six. There's a pretty diverse array of words and spellings to use.
Comments
(not to say that this lot are much of an improvement insofar as Justice is concerned)
But I don't disagree with the point you are making. All I am saying is that there is a lot of chaos and we can expect more, the Barnard Castle fiasco led to a significant drop in the opinion polls for the conservatives and we can expect more things like that.
But no Gabriel Byrne, other than small nods? Boooo
Self isolate is tautological. Irritating term for that reason.
Can we just say ‘isolate’?
Remember Shakespeare's warning 'The evil that men do lives after them' . We aint seen nothin' yet!
So I guess it's a claim from that individual that they see themselves as part of the 3.5%. Not sure that the research they are citing would have shown the same beneficial impact of 3.5% talking to itself on twitter, though.
SKS still arguing for 2.1%
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/19/government-set-back-boost-pay-rise-nhs-workers/
3% pay increase for NHS front line.
IMO Things are in the next stage, firstly get the virologists off the 24 hour news, the vaccines have broken the link between them and relevancy. We need behaviour psychologists for the answers to the next phase followed by economists for the stage after.
Everything, opinions, decision making, seems to dip in and out of irrational modes of thinking where we can only assess the ethics of behaviour once the frenzy has passed. Remember the rallying around the flag bounce at the beginning of this? What sort of rational thinking does a mind do in that mode? The same irrationality has persisted all through the crisis. We are at stage now where this evenings press conference was all about behaviours, it was a word used a lot.
My question to you anabobzina is do you not think it important now, to align work of vaccines with the right behaviour from everyone? Jabbing something in an arm is as easy as taking horse to water. The next bit is the difficult bit. Do you see what I mean?
Nor is it over in pain terms of the economics. Irregular growth patterns and persistent inflationary pressures could cause real pain and ruin in coming years. Inflation pressure could come from more difficult sourcing of materials, unless the sourcing issue doesn’t settle down it could hold inflation for longer, that impacts debt payments linked to price inflation, in turn spooks the markets.
Something as big and unplanned for as this wasn’t just going to go back to normal over night.
He holds the role of police commissioner (or whatever the term is) which MPs are not allowed to hold.
They should probably update the AA calculations regarding DB entitlement, though.
--AS
Whitehall translation: "miles apart with furious rowing"
https://twitter.com/uksciencechief/status/1417204235356213252
Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference today, 19 July. About 60% of hospitalisations from covid are not from double vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from covid are currently from unvaccinated people.
Your stock response to any criticism of SKS is Richard Burgon would be worse
We agree on that but as he will never be leader its a silly response.
So we need to find a unity candidate with better skills than Starmer or we are completely sunk.
Maybe we should sit down with a pint and see who we can both support. Cannot be associated with the Momentum or Progress wings. Ideally a proven track record and a unity figure
How about Ed Milliband? See its not easy Andy Burnham has to be cloned.
And not one member of the media picked it up and queried it, but the people here twigged about it instantly.
But if you recieve a positive test result or are told to isolate by test and trace yes it is a definetly legal requirement, there is theoretically a 1k penalty which rises to 10k if you keep breaking the isolation period. Although I don't think this has ever been successfully enforced, to date.
Every one of those 'fans' who can be identified, without exception, who forced their way into the stadium should get a football banning order and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
This could have been another Hillsborough.
1) People know that dealing with a pandemic is extremely difficult and are willing to give the government the benefit of the doubt
2) If you look at the countries we would naturally benchmark ourselves against - US, FR, DE, IT, ES only Germany has a significantly lower death rate.
Do you support a Lab. policy of a lower pay award for front line NHS staff than the Tories are offering?
For 2017 BTW see Forde report for more information
Maybe a touch higher.
Both have a tax element funding them. Both a basement level where the scheme kicks in (50 under dilmot, 100K for May, tbc under Boris and Rishi).
You say it is better, what is the difference making it better?
8% pay rise for Pensioners too
Alternatively, there'd have been c 5 000 ticketed fans, having paid many hundreds of pounds, locked out and angry.
There needs to be a wider enquiry than just banning fans though.
One of my more foolish errors.
I go for ANDY BURNHAM despite his current unavailability but am happy to consider others
Even if 60% of admissions were from double vaccinated, that would still show good vaccine efficacy, because this is the group that should have made you 85% of admissions prior to vaccinations.
But that isn't the case. Somewhere in the low double digits of people who are admitted are double vaccinated, against the 85% you'd expect if the vaccines were ineffective.
Because, also, the total number hospitalized relative to case rate is down, you have to be a little more sophisticated with the maths. Nevertheless, given the 60% most vulnerable are only 12-15% of hospital admissions, we can peg efficacy against serious disease at 90-95%.
It sounds like one of ‘laws’ that is essentially unenforceable but nevertheless is there.
The swing to the Left post-2015, Jeremy Corbyn's anti-patriotism, Emily Thornberry and the house with the England flags, Keir Starmer's attempt to push a second EU referendum and everything else merely resolved and crystallised the notion that Labour's leadership and most of its members had come to regard a vast section of its supporter base - modest-to-average income white people without university degrees - with naked contempt. Frankly, Labour is doing well to be polling as healthily as it still does under the circumstances.
Others will doubtless strongly disagree and suggest that I'm flat wrong, or at least exaggerate the problem, but we must ask ourselves what the reasons are as to why a Government as poor as that currently in office is not merely tolerated, but rewarded with healthy levels of support. Simply getting angry that large numbers of ex-Labour voters won't see the light and writing them off as thick really isn't helpful.
No hope.
Maybe you are right and 2024 will be worse. I'll bow to your sage prediction should that come to pass.
Is it Copulate?
A few years ago for Christmas my wife got us tickets to see Monty Python for their live reunion 'we need to pay our tax bill' reunion tour. A legitimately once in a lifetime opportunity to see them perform. When we got there the staff scanned our tickets and they said there was an issue and we were held up for ages until eventually being let through - when we got to our seats there were two people sat in them already. We flagged the stewards and the four of us got taken to a desk where they tried to sort it out, us showing our tickets saying those seats and they somehow had tickets for the exact same seats too; though we could show on our phone the email showing proof of purchase direct from the ticketting company and they could not and got very shady when asked about where they'd purchased the seats from.
Not sure how they'd done it, but I'm fairly sure they knew they were trying it on. Eventually we were told to take our seats and we left them with the staff promising to find seats for them, despite them probably not having paid for seats in the first place. Something dodgy had happened either way, we hadn't gone through any reselling agency or anything it was bought direct from Ticketmaster [or whoever else it was selling them].
Had we been sent home, having spent hundreds on these seats (and train tickets to London and a hotel overnight etc too) and missed a once in a lifetime opportunity then I would have been absolutely disgusted. Same thing could have happened here to people at the final.
The party does not have a smash hit manifesto being cruelly misrepresented by Starmer. It has a mountain of Corbyn baggage, an infestation problem that still puts people off, and no real feel for how to square the circle that their old core vote no longer believes the same things the party activists do. The front man isn't the problem.
Kuenssberg Cummings 7pm tomorrow bbc2
Congress could work.
https://youtu.be/eJQAU4ILFNc
FFS.....this is basic shit...and he is supposed to be their "data guy".
2019 was worst of the 4 (Worst result in terms of seats since 1935)
None of the 4 were good enough.
We need a better leader than Brown, Miliband and Corbyn
Cloning AB is the best we can come up with.
What a mess
Fortunately Monty Python wouldn't have about 5 000 mostly pissed and quite a few coked up young men.
If this is swept under the carpet it raises issues for PL games.
A full house and the game would have been off.
'Peter Mandelson [MP for Hartlepool] said to me, "your preoccupation with the working-class vote is wrong. They've got nowhere to go."'
None of which is to lessen the shocking failure to arrange adequate stewarding and policing.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-critical-workers-will-not-have-to-isolate-if-identified-as-a-close-contact-of-a-positive-coronavirus-case-12359230
Does it suggest a big change in August?
The employer may well still be contributing to the DB pension after retirement.
Labour is dying on its arse under SKS
Perhaps RP/MP/ can have a whip round to make up for the 25% loss of income.
That its been brought forwards for some does indeed suggest that it going ahead for those already confirmed in August will happen. There'll be outrage and hell to pay if there is any retreat on this now.
That glass may be refilled a few times.