Welp, fsck Boris. Guess I won't be seeing my native land till next year then. I'll spend my dollars here instead. Bet they'll be worth more in the UK next year anyway.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
If things turn out badly for L'Écosse tomorrow will Blackford, Sturgeon, and the rest of the secessionist movement moan that Scotland is being dragged out of the Euros against their will?
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
If things turn out badly for L'Écosse tomorrow will Blackford, Sturgeon, and the rest of the secessionist movement moan that Scotland is being dragged out of the Euros against their will?
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
If things turn out badly for L'Écosse tomorrow will Blackford, Sturgeon, and the rest of the secessionist movement moan that Scotland is being dragged out of the Euros against their will?
Probably. We have got to find a goal from somewhere. There have been a lot of OGs in this tournament. Might be our best chance.
If things turn out badly for L'Écosse tomorrow will Blackford, Sturgeon, and the rest of the secessionist movement moan that Scotland is being dragged out of the Euros against their will?
Somebody already did that one didn't they?
I'm showing off my impeccable environmental credentials, recycling is good.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The quarantine rules in the Euro championship are absolutely ridiculous. Mount and Chilwell are in quarantine because he hugged the Scottish player in the aftermath of the match? Why's that any different than somebody grappling with him at a corner? What if he had scored a goal and been mobbed by his team? Entire team out?
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
Absolutely idiotic and the so called scientists need to be put back in their box
As I said earlier today I am want to see Boris replaced as soon as possible
He cannot make a decision - scientists advise, politicians decide
Hard to avoid the conclusion that Hancock and Johnson lied when they said that we would open up once the vulnerable had been vaccinated.
Is it lying? I think Boris's eyes glaze over at the sight of graphs, numbers and Professor Whitty's next slide. I would be tempted to say Boris is functionally innumerate except that term might have a technical meaning that is not quite right here.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
I may have misremembered this, but I seem to recall UCL/Ferguson's code was made available and some guys from another uni found it gave different answers depending on how many CPUs were involved.
Absolutely idiotic and the so called scientists need to be put back in their box
As I said earlier today I am want to see Boris replaced as soon as possible
He cannot make a decision - scientists advise, politicians decide
Hard to avoid the conclusion that Hancock and Johnson lied when they said that we would open up once the vulnerable had been vaccinated.
Is it lying? I think Boris's eyes glaze over at the sight of graphs, numbers and Professor Whitty's next slide. I would be tempted to say Boris is functionally innumerate except that term might have a technical meaning that is not quite right here.
You're having problems with "functionally" aren't you?
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
I may have misremembered this, but I seem to recall UCL/Ferguson's code was made available and some guys from another uni found it gave different answers depending on how many CPUs were involved.
So the model was junked, which is exactly the point of open source peer review!
Absolutely idiotic and the so called scientists need to be put back in their box
As I said earlier today I am want to see Boris replaced as soon as possible
He cannot make a decision - scientists advise, politicians decide
Hard to avoid the conclusion that Hancock and Johnson lied when they said that we would open up once the vulnerable had been vaccinated.
Is it lying? I think Boris's eyes glaze over at the sight of graphs, numbers and Professor Whitty's next slide. I would be tempted to say Boris is functionally innumerate except that term might have a technical meaning that is not quite right here.
By contrast. His eyes positively light up when he reads the polls that say 71% in favour. Blaming the scientists is just deflecting from the real reason the decision was made.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
Which scientists, exactly? What form do you think such a "reckoning" would take?
--AS
A Star Chamber which can recommend jury trials, if necessary
These scientists are exercising extraordinary power over our lives - and, in some cases, clearly relishing it. With extraordinary power comes extraordinary consequences, if you get it wrong. There HAS to be a price to pay, they can't just slink away into the shadows, some must face criminal charges
I'd start with Peter Daszak and the editors of The Lancet, who blatantly lied back in February 2020. They are now quietly trying to hide these lies
"We invited the 27 authors of the letter to re-evaluate their competing interests. Peter Daszak has expanded on his disclosure statements for this letter and two other pieces relating to COVID-19 that he co-authored or contributed to in The Lancet. See http://hubs.li/H0QHbrM0."
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
I may have misremembered this, but I seem to recall UCL/Ferguson's code was made available and some guys from another uni found it gave different answers depending on how many CPUs were involved.
So the model was junked, which is exactly the point of open source peer review!
I feel like the concept of "SAGE" was a mistake.
When it appears it was the only source of independent expert advice, absolutely.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
A bloody depressing day at work today. Waiting lists longer than I have known in my 3 decades in the NHS. Staff shortages with many either sick or left, Social Distancing meaning each day the lists gow longer. We are in a hole and still digging it deeper.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
A bloody depressing day at work today. Waiting lists longer than I have known in my 3 decades in the NHS. Staff shortages with many either sick or left, Social Distancing meaning each day the lists gow longer. We are in a hole and still digging it deeper.
Weirdly my relatively minor hernia surgery is in July. I only had to wait a few months. I was expecting to wait a year+
Quite frankly its a good thing that the government has belatedly realised that lifting domestic lockdowns must come before foreign travel. If they'd realised that sooner, maybe domestic lockdowns will be over already.
And to answer OGH's question, the point of the world beating vaccine program is to save lives. And if 99% of the restrictions can be eliminated with only the border protected until our neighbours catch up with our vaccine rollout progress then so be it, that's still an improvement.
If it was up to me I would have had a Stage 5 and Stage 6 in the vaccine program. Could have kept with the five-week steps.
Stage 4: Should have gone ahead today.
Stage 5, 26/7: Anyone double-vaccinated travelling to a green list country doesn't need testing and can travel as if domestically. Anyone double-vaccinated travelling to an amber list country needs a test on return but no quarantine. Would have come into effect just in time for the August holidays.
Stage 6, not before 2 September: Abolish amber list, stop checking vaccine status for domestic travellers (maybe keep it for overseas tourists). Can travel as normal whether vaccinated or not, no need for testing, no need for quarantine, with only red list country restrictions maintained.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
I may have misremembered this, but I seem to recall UCL/Ferguson's code was made available and some guys from another uni found it gave different answers depending on how many CPUs were involved.
So the model was junked, which is exactly the point of open source peer review!
I feel like the concept of "SAGE" was a mistake.
I certainly want the public inquiry to look into its purpose, operation, personnel, criteria etc etc. Why for example is Mitchie on there and on indie SAGE? I mean WTF. Talk about backing two horses.
And most importantly the way it interacts with Cabinet. I seem to recall that someone involved said the other day (possibly Mr Cummings) that it was expected SAGE would feed into another committee which had people like economists on it to balance things out. This never happened. We get modelling straight off the PC onto a powerpoint into the PM's hands and 'cripes, we better lockdown eh?'.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
Which scientists, exactly? What form do you think such a "reckoning" would take?
--AS
A Star Chamber which can recommend jury trials, if necessary
These scientists are exercising extraordinary power over our lives - and, in some cases, clearly relishing it. With extraordinary power comes extraordinary consequences, if you get it wrong. There HAS to be a price to pay, they can't just slink away into the shadows, some must face criminal charges
I'd start with Peter Daszak and the editors of The Lancet, who blatantly lied back in February 2020. They are now quietly trying to hide these lies
"We invited the 27 authors of the letter to re-evaluate their competing interests. Peter Daszak has expanded on his disclosure statements for this letter and two other pieces relating to COVID-19 that he co-authored or contributed to in The Lancet. See http://hubs.li/H0QHbrM0."
But as to the other scientists such as those on SAGE, what do you think the consequences would be for the next pandemic if those who advised on this one (most of them for free) had to pay to defend themselves in a trial, and suffer a trial by media?
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
A bloody depressing day at work today. Waiting lists longer than I have known in my 3 decades in the NHS. Staff shortages with many either sick or left, Social Distancing meaning each day the lists gow longer. We are in a hole and still digging it deeper.
I have heard leave carried over from last year is an issue coming down the tracks too. Is this so?
Would I be allowed to come back to Scotland though?
Ya big feartie, where's your Braveheart spirit?
I think the bigger question is why would you want to go back to Scotland when living in Blackpool might be the better option.
Because I am not an English qualified lawyer?
I am doing one of those Judicial review things tomorrow and the next day. Reports of their extinction seem to be a little overstated.
WFH.
On the 30th I am doing in person sex training in Glasgow so I can prosecute these cases.
40 years too late my wife was heard muttering.
Sorry what
There are a lot of technicalities and particular rules for evidence in sex based prosecutions these days and the Crown thinks I should know something about them.
So in order to remain a "World Heritage site" you have to eschew new development and avoid regeneration of sh*tty areas? Or am i misreading this in my skim interpretation?
Would I be allowed to come back to Scotland though?
Ya big feartie, where's your Braveheart spirit?
I think the bigger question is why would you want to go back to Scotland when living in Blackpool might be the better option.
Because I am not an English qualified lawyer?
I am doing one of those Judicial review things tomorrow and the next day. Reports of their extinction seem to be a little overstated.
WFH.
On the 30th I am doing in person sex training in Glasgow so I can prosecute these cases.
40 years too late my wife was heard muttering.
Sex training or sex education? (!)
I heard this onece memorably used as an illustraion of the difference between training and education; you might well be happy for your children to recieve sex education at school... but sex training? - not so much.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
A bloody depressing day at work today. Waiting lists longer than I have known in my 3 decades in the NHS. Staff shortages with many either sick or left, Social Distancing meaning each day the lists gow longer. We are in a hole and still digging it deeper.
Sorry to read this.
Am I right in thinking at Step 4 also includes ending social distancing in hospitals and healthcare? This would help presumably.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
I may have misremembered this, but I seem to recall UCL/Ferguson's code was made available and some guys from another uni found it gave different answers depending on how many CPUs were involved.
So the model was junked, which is exactly the point of open source peer review!
I feel like the concept of "SAGE" was a mistake.
I certainly want the public inquiry to look into its purpose, operation, personnel, criteria etc etc. Why for example is Mitchie on there and on indie SAGE? I mean WTF. Talk about backing two horses.
And most importantly the way it interacts with Cabinet. I seem to recall that someone involved said the other day (possibly Mr Cummings) that it was expected SAGE would feed into another committee which had people like economists on it to balance things out. This never happened. We get modelling straight off the PC onto a powerpoint into the PM's hands and 'cripes, we better lockdown eh?'.
Certainly the phrase "cost-benefit analysis" (even one that largely ignores cash and pitches short-ish term health outcomes against medium and longer term ones) seems to have completely disappeared from the language of government.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
Which scientists, exactly? What form do you think such a "reckoning" would take?
--AS
A Star Chamber which can recommend jury trials, if necessary
These scientists are exercising extraordinary power over our lives - and, in some cases, clearly relishing it. With extraordinary power comes extraordinary consequences, if you get it wrong. There HAS to be a price to pay, they can't just slink away into the shadows, some must face criminal charges
I'd start with Peter Daszak and the editors of The Lancet, who blatantly lied back in February 2020. They are now quietly trying to hide these lies
"We invited the 27 authors of the letter to re-evaluate their competing interests. Peter Daszak has expanded on his disclosure statements for this letter and two other pieces relating to COVID-19 that he co-authored or contributed to in The Lancet. See http://hubs.li/H0QHbrM0."
But as to the other scientists such as those on SAGE, what do you think the consequences would be for the next pandemic if those who advised on this one (most of them for free) had to pay to defend themselves in a trial, and suffer a trial by media?
--AS
Millions have died. Our economy is in tatters. They got it hopelessly wrong on masks, and many other things. And the UK scientific elite either lied or conspired about "lab leak" - which you conveniently choose to ignore
Put the worst offenders in the dock and let a jury decide. They can have legal aid
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
I may have misremembered this, but I seem to recall UCL/Ferguson's code was made available and some guys from another uni found it gave different answers depending on how many CPUs were involved.
So the model was junked, which is exactly the point of open source peer review!
I feel like the concept of "SAGE" was a mistake.
I think SAGE was undermined when Dominic Cummings joined, so that instead of SAGE being between the actual frontline scientists and the politicians, Cummings usurped the SAGE role of buffer, which meant that SAGE came to be seen as the frontline.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
A bloody depressing day at work today. Waiting lists longer than I have known in my 3 decades in the NHS. Staff shortages with many either sick or left, Social Distancing meaning each day the lists gow longer. We are in a hole and still digging it deeper.
I'm sorry to hear that. Just as with many illnesses, the long and slow rehabilitation after the pandemic may be more painful and dispiriting than the crisis itself. I'd love to hear that the government intends to take it as seriously (and pay as freely) as they did procurement of the vaccine, but I fear it will take a while before public opinion forces them into that, if ever.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
A bloody depressing day at work today. Waiting lists longer than I have known in my 3 decades in the NHS. Staff shortages with many either sick or left, Social Distancing meaning each day the lists gow longer. We are in a hole and still digging it deeper.
I have heard leave carried over from last year is an issue coming down the tracks too. Is this so?
My own Trust realised it was going to be a long haul, and right from the first wave recommended we kept Leave as far as possible. Nonetheless some was carried forward, only a couple of days for me.
The anaesthetists and theatre staff were flat out on ICU, and do have lots of burnout as well as accumulated Leave owing.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
A bloody depressing day at work today. Waiting lists longer than I have known in my 3 decades in the NHS. Staff shortages with many either sick or left, Social Distancing meaning each day the lists gow longer. We are in a hole and still digging it deeper.
I'm sorry to hear that. Just as with many illnesses, the long and slow rehabilitation after the pandemic may be more painful and dispiriting than the crisis itself. I'd love to hear that the government intends to take it as seriously (and pay as freely) as they did procurement of the vaccine, but I fear it will take a while before public opinion forces them into that, if ever.
--AS
What would be the Cherry on the cake is the pension tax proposals in the DT today. Lots more would hand in their notice of retirement including myself.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
Which scientists, exactly? What form do you think such a "reckoning" would take?
--AS
A Star Chamber which can recommend jury trials, if necessary
These scientists are exercising extraordinary power over our lives - and, in some cases, clearly relishing it. With extraordinary power comes extraordinary consequences, if you get it wrong. There HAS to be a price to pay, they can't just slink away into the shadows, some must face criminal charges
I'd start with Peter Daszak and the editors of The Lancet, who blatantly lied back in February 2020. They are now quietly trying to hide these lies
"We invited the 27 authors of the letter to re-evaluate their competing interests. Peter Daszak has expanded on his disclosure statements for this letter and two other pieces relating to COVID-19 that he co-authored or contributed to in The Lancet. See http://hubs.li/H0QHbrM0."
But as to the other scientists such as those on SAGE, what do you think the consequences would be for the next pandemic if those who advised on this one (most of them for free) had to pay to defend themselves in a trial, and suffer a trial by media?
--AS
Millions have died. Our economy is in tatters. They got it hopelessly wrong on masks, and many other things. And the UK scientific elite either lied or conspired about "lab leak" - which you conveniently choose to ignore
Put the worst offenders in the dock and let a jury decide. They can have legal aid
It's the government that should be in the dock. There's a wide range of scientific opinion - some turns out to be right, some wrong.
The government has taken the decisions, some of which were shockers.
Absolutely idiotic and the so called scientists need to be put back in their box
As I said earlier today I am want to see Boris replaced as soon as possible
He cannot make a decision - scientists advise, politicians decide
Hard to avoid the conclusion that Hancock and Johnson lied when they said that we would open up once the vulnerable had been vaccinated.
Is it lying? I think Boris's eyes glaze over at the sight of graphs, numbers and Professor Whitty's next slide. I would be tempted to say Boris is functionally innumerate except that term might have a technical meaning that is not quite right here.
I would be very interested in knowing what the highest level quantitative qualification is that Johnson has, and at what grade. O level maths, perhaps? In my only personal interaction with him, where the subject was economics, I had the strong sense of someone for whom numbers, and indeed objective reality, were at best loosely grasped. It helps to explain the lying too, of course.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
Which scientists, exactly? What form do you think such a "reckoning" would take?
--AS
A Star Chamber which can recommend jury trials, if necessary
These scientists are exercising extraordinary power over our lives - and, in some cases, clearly relishing it. With extraordinary power comes extraordinary consequences, if you get it wrong. There HAS to be a price to pay, they can't just slink away into the shadows, some must face criminal charges
I'd start with Peter Daszak and the editors of The Lancet, who blatantly lied back in February 2020. They are now quietly trying to hide these lies
"We invited the 27 authors of the letter to re-evaluate their competing interests. Peter Daszak has expanded on his disclosure statements for this letter and two other pieces relating to COVID-19 that he co-authored or contributed to in The Lancet. See http://hubs.li/H0QHbrM0."
But as to the other scientists such as those on SAGE, what do you think the consequences would be for the next pandemic if those who advised on this one (most of them for free) had to pay to defend themselves in a trial, and suffer a trial by media?
--AS
I think that perhaps they would be well advised not to run to microphones blurring the lines between advisors to the government and people seeking to actively make policy.
Absolutely idiotic and the so called scientists need to be put back in their box
As I said earlier today I am want to see Boris replaced as soon as possible
He cannot make a decision - scientists advise, politicians decide
Hard to avoid the conclusion that Hancock and Johnson lied when they said that we would open up once the vulnerable had been vaccinated.
Is it lying? I think Boris's eyes glaze over at the sight of graphs, numbers and Professor Whitty's next slide. I would be tempted to say Boris is functionally innumerate except that term might have a technical meaning that is not quite right here.
I would be very interested in knowing what the highest level quantitative qualification is that Johnson has, and at what grade. O level maths, perhaps? In my only personal interaction with him, where the subject was economics, I had the strong sense of someone for whom numbers, and indeed objective reality, were at best loosely grasped. It helps to explain the lying too, of course.
We need to be realistic. No foreign travel before 2022 maybe 2023 unless absolutely essential.
Absurd
That means the end of the UK foreign travel industry forever. No way they can sustain complete shutdown over several years. It means the loss of millions of jobs and maybe 5-10% GDP. Close Gatwick and Stansted, and so on
If it is reciprocated - and no foreign tourists come here, either - it means the death of central London (likewise Edinburgh, Bath, Cambridge, etc etc etc) and another 5% off GDP. It means a huge Depression
Zero Covidians like you are worse than the disease itself
The PB Furioso tendency is kicking off. Time for supper.
I have no problem with continuing international travel restrictions - we always knew that would be slow; however I want to see domestic travel restrictions lifted quite quickly.
And I'd far rather be having this 3rd wave now in high summer, rather than in the 4-8 weeks time that is likely for anywhere in Europe in kicks off.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
The modellers look like being spectacularly wrong on the summer surge. Time for ministers to govern and ignore these models until they are rebuilt and recoded to actually reflect what happens in this pandemic.
They need to open source the models and have them peer reviewed. Annoyingly like what Dom Cummings wanted.
I may have misremembered this, but I seem to recall UCL/Ferguson's code was made available and some guys from another uni found it gave different answers depending on how many CPUs were involved.
So the model was junked, which is exactly the point of open source peer review!
I feel like the concept of "SAGE" was a mistake.
I certainly want the public inquiry to look into its purpose, operation, personnel, criteria etc etc. Why for example is Mitchie on there and on indie SAGE? I mean WTF. Talk about backing two horses.
And most importantly the way it interacts with Cabinet. I seem to recall that someone involved said the other day (possibly Mr Cummings) that it was expected SAGE would feed into another committee which had people like economists on it to balance things out. This never happened. We get modelling straight off the PC onto a powerpoint into the PM's hands and 'cripes, we better lockdown eh?'.
Certainly the phrase "cost-benefit analysis" (even one that largely ignores cash and pitches short-ish term health outcomes against medium and longer term ones) seems to have completely disappeared from the language of government.
I think one thing i find frustrating is there is no sense from within Government of the lockdown in March (and i suppose Dec) 2020 being emergency measures made necessary by an unknown threat and in an unvaccinated world - which should never be repeated except in completely exceptional future circumstances.
What was considered exceptional, is now widely seen as a default response to any future surges in the virus or pressures on the NHS. Where is the serious thinking about alternatives - that can be implemented if necessary if it all goes wrong again? If you don't send out a clear message to all areas of Government that another lockdown is unacceptable, where is the incentive to develop alternatives. Whether it is to find alternative ways to increase medical provision (perhaps greater use of smaller, remote sites), dealing with court backlogs, education, etc etc. And if the thinking is not possible within government then were is the engagement with those outside government?
In fact there ARE many outside government who have invested huge amounts of time and energy trying to come up with alternative solutions. Whether they be at airports, hosts of live events, hospitality, etc etc. And yet throughout we've heard a common complaint - Government won't engage, won't commit to supporting or developing solutions, gives assurances and then changes its mind...
We need to be realistic. No foreign travel before 2022 maybe 2023 unless absolutely essential.
Absurd
That means the end of the UK foreign travel industry forever. No way they can sustain complete shutdown over several years. It means the loss of millions of jobs and maybe 5-10% GDP. Close Gatwick and Stansted, and so on
If it is reciprocated - and no foreign tourists come here, either - it means the death of central London (likewise Edinburgh, Bath, Cambridge, etc etc etc) and another 5% off GDP. It means a huge Depression
Zero Covidians like you are worse than the disease itself
Yup, it’s a sledgehammer to crack a nut. We need to learn to live with COVID and vaccines are the way out.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
Which scientists, exactly? What form do you think such a "reckoning" would take?
--AS
A Star Chamber which can recommend jury trials, if necessary
These scientists are exercising extraordinary power over our lives - and, in some cases, clearly relishing it. With extraordinary power comes extraordinary consequences, if you get it wrong. There HAS to be a price to pay, they can't just slink away into the shadows, some must face criminal charges
I'd start with Peter Daszak and the editors of The Lancet, who blatantly lied back in February 2020. They are now quietly trying to hide these lies
"We invited the 27 authors of the letter to re-evaluate their competing interests. Peter Daszak has expanded on his disclosure statements for this letter and two other pieces relating to COVID-19 that he co-authored or contributed to in The Lancet. See http://hubs.li/H0QHbrM0."
But as to the other scientists such as those on SAGE, what do you think the consequences would be for the next pandemic if those who advised on this one (most of them for free) had to pay to defend themselves in a trial, and suffer a trial by media?
--AS
Millions have died. Our economy is in tatters. They got it hopelessly wrong on masks, and many other things. And the UK scientific elite either lied or conspired about "lab leak" - which you conveniently choose to ignore
Put the worst offenders in the dock and let a jury decide. They can have legal aid
Get your arguments in order. The deaths and economic consequences are not primarily because of the scientists, as well you know, but because of a novel pathogen.
I ignore the lab leak because I don't know the truth of the situation. If people have intentionally lied they should be held accountable.
That aside, I think some scientists made mistakes (including the Warwick models). But if you put them in the dock, then in the next pandemic you'll hope for a vaccine only to find nobody step forward for fear of liability if something goes wrong. You'll want for clinical trials of treatments, but why would anyone run one, if drawing a wrong conclusion (always a statistical possibility, no matter how well-designed the trial) means facing a jury afterwards? You'll look for evidence about transmission, likely spread, impact of different mitigations. You won't get them.
Or perhaps the power-hungry, the publicity-hungry, and the risk-takers amongst the scientists will step forward. Then you'll get the advice you seek, and it will be infinitely worse.
What you're really saying is that you're unhappy about the situation and want to take it out on someone. Thankfully, you don't have the power to implement the thoughtless revenge you seek.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
Which scientists, exactly? What form do you think such a "reckoning" would take?
--AS
A Star Chamber which can recommend jury trials, if necessary
These scientists are exercising extraordinary power over our lives - and, in some cases, clearly relishing it. With extraordinary power comes extraordinary consequences, if you get it wrong. There HAS to be a price to pay, they can't just slink away into the shadows, some must face criminal charges
I'd start with Peter Daszak and the editors of The Lancet, who blatantly lied back in February 2020. They are now quietly trying to hide these lies
"We invited the 27 authors of the letter to re-evaluate their competing interests. Peter Daszak has expanded on his disclosure statements for this letter and two other pieces relating to COVID-19 that he co-authored or contributed to in The Lancet. See http://hubs.li/H0QHbrM0."
But as to the other scientists such as those on SAGE, what do you think the consequences would be for the next pandemic if those who advised on this one (most of them for free) had to pay to defend themselves in a trial, and suffer a trial by media?
--AS
Millions have died. Our economy is in tatters. They got it hopelessly wrong on masks, and many other things. And the UK scientific elite either lied or conspired about "lab leak" - which you conveniently choose to ignore
Put the worst offenders in the dock and let a jury decide. They can have legal aid
It's the government that should be in the dock. There's a wide range of scientific opinion - some turns out to be right, some wrong.
The government has taken the decisions, some of which were shockers.
Why exculpate the scientists? They are on TV daily telling us "masks are forever". Fuck them. If they want this kind of media and political power, then they must shoulder the culpability that comes with it. Otherwise we have created a new kind of Catholic priesthood, pre-Reformation, laying down mores and laws yet enjoying total immunity from any problems they create
Let us have an inquiry into the science AND the politics. The two are inextricably linked, anyhow
We need to be realistic. No foreign travel before 2022 maybe 2023 unless absolutely essential.
Absurd
That means the end of the UK foreign travel industry forever. No way they can sustain complete shutdown over several years. It means the loss of millions of jobs and maybe 5-10% GDP. Close Gatwick and Stansted, and so on
If it is reciprocated - and no foreign tourists come here, either - it means the death of central London (likewise Edinburgh, Bath, Cambridge, etc etc etc) and another 5% off GDP. It means a huge Depression
Zero Covidians like you are worse than the disease itself
Love you too Leon. It's important to put the interest of the country first.
This is going to disappoint millions of families – politicalbetting.com
Comments
Like I did this weekend.
Wonderful weekend.
You should all go.
Shocking. I'll say it again, at some point there must be a reckoning for the scientists. From masks to models to lab leak. A litany of failure, idiocy and obfuscation - right up to potential corruption and complicity
https://unherd.com/thepost/one-question-sir-patrick-vallance-still-needs-to-answer/
As I said earlier today I want to see Boris replaced as soon as possible
He cannot make a decision - scientists advise, politicians decide
If things turn out badly for L'Écosse tomorrow will Blackford, Sturgeon, and the rest of the secessionist movement moan that Scotland is being dragged out of the Euros against their will?
Win the group
Or
Finish third.
I think the bigger question is why would you want to go back to Scotland when living in Blackpool might be the better option.
@hendopolis
·
3m
TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: Murdoch eyes bid for BT Sport partnership #TomorrowsPapersToday
If had had his way, then he would in complete control of Sky.
Story here.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/21/rupert-murdoch-eyes-bid-bt-sport-partnership/
"You choose, get vaccinated or I will have you jailed"
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1407078901025751052
--AS
https://twitter.com/fasiskKYR/status/1406605778602037251
Who would you rather see get a peerage?
I am doing one of those Judicial review things tomorrow and the next day. Reports of their extinction seem to be a little overstated.
Good question.
We're about to overtake Israel as the most double-vaccinated country in the world with more than 5 million people.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/
--AS
@hendopolis
·
1m
TELEGRAPH FRONT: Panicked 5 year olds scared of play dates #TomorrowsPapersToday
But it was an OG.
Should make things safer so we avoid things like flesh eating Covid-19 variants.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations#what-share-of-the-population-has-been-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19
I feel like the concept of "SAGE" was a mistake.
Considering scaling back on northern powerhouse rail projects.
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/fears-of-hammer-blow-to-northern-powerhouse-rail-and-bradford-city-centre-stop-as-government-considers-scaling-back-plans-3279867
Blaming the scientists is just deflecting from the real reason the decision was made.
These scientists are exercising extraordinary power over our lives - and, in some cases, clearly relishing it. With extraordinary power comes extraordinary consequences, if you get it wrong. There HAS to be a price to pay, they can't just slink away into the shadows, some must face criminal charges
I'd start with Peter Daszak and the editors of The Lancet, who blatantly lied back in February 2020. They are now quietly trying to hide these lies
"We invited the 27 authors of the letter to re-evaluate their competing interests. Peter Daszak has expanded on his disclosure statements for this letter and two other pieces relating to COVID-19 that he co-authored or contributed to in The Lancet. See http://hubs.li/H0QHbrM0."
https://twitter.com/TheSeeker268/status/1407056608987856896?s=20
40 years too late my wife was heard muttering.
And to answer OGH's question, the point of the world beating vaccine program is to save lives. And if 99% of the restrictions can be eliminated with only the border protected until our neighbours catch up with our vaccine rollout progress then so be it, that's still an improvement.
If it was up to me I would have had a Stage 5 and Stage 6 in the vaccine program. Could have kept with the five-week steps.
Stage 4: Should have gone ahead today.
Stage 5, 26/7: Anyone double-vaccinated travelling to a green list country doesn't need testing and can travel as if domestically. Anyone double-vaccinated travelling to an amber list country needs a test on return but no quarantine. Would have come into effect just in time for the August holidays.
Stage 6, not before 2 September: Abolish amber list, stop checking vaccine status for domestic travellers (maybe keep it for overseas tourists). Can travel as normal whether vaccinated or not, no need for testing, no need for quarantine, with only red list country restrictions maintained.
And most importantly the way it interacts with Cabinet. I seem to recall that someone involved said the other day (possibly Mr Cummings) that it was expected SAGE would feed into another committee which had people like economists on it to balance things out. This never happened. We get modelling straight off the PC onto a powerpoint into the PM's hands and 'cripes, we better lockdown eh?'.
But as to the other scientists such as those on SAGE, what do you think the consequences would be for the next pandemic if those who advised on this one (most of them for free) had to pay to defend themselves in a trial, and suffer a trial by media?
--AS
Start of July I have to partake in some annual equalities and sexual harassment awareness seminars.
Reading up for this it turns out telling rude jokes at work is a no no.
So in order to remain a "World Heritage site" you have to eschew new development and avoid regeneration of sh*tty areas? Or am i misreading this in my skim interpretation?
I heard this onece memorably used as an illustraion of the difference between training and education; you might well be happy for your children to recieve sex education at school... but sex training? - not so much.
Am I right in thinking at Step 4 also includes ending social distancing in hospitals and healthcare? This would help presumably.
Put the worst offenders in the dock and let a jury decide. They can have legal aid
--AS
Or is it to keep out the omega variant?
The anaesthetists and theatre staff were flat out on ICU, and do have lots of burnout as well as accumulated Leave owing.
Do you think you would have issues with having a Muslim manager?
I replied yes, because I'm such a good Muslim and every other Muslim isn't, compared to me, that would inevitably lead to conflict.
Today we shall be mostly talking about Palestine and the Zionists
I prefer the term 'facilitation fee'.
The government has taken the decisions, some of which were shockers.
Early eighties mod outfit, the red boys, call a press conference to announce reunion tour for 2022
That means the end of the UK foreign travel industry forever. No way they can sustain complete shutdown over several years. It means the loss of millions of jobs and maybe 5-10% GDP. Close Gatwick and Stansted, and so on
If it is reciprocated - and no foreign tourists come here, either - it means the death of central London (likewise Edinburgh, Bath, Cambridge, etc etc etc) and another 5% off GDP. It means a huge Depression
Zero Covidians like you are worse than the disease itself
The PB Furioso tendency is kicking off. Time for supper.
I have no problem with continuing international travel restrictions - we always knew that would be slow; however I want to see domestic travel restrictions lifted quite quickly.
And I'd far rather be having this 3rd wave now in high summer, rather than in the 4-8 weeks time that is likely for anywhere in Europe in kicks off.
Perhaps also time for an email to the MP.
What was considered exceptional, is now widely seen as a default response to any future surges in the virus or pressures on the NHS. Where is the serious thinking about alternatives - that can be implemented if necessary if it all goes wrong again? If you don't send out a clear message to all areas of Government that another lockdown is unacceptable, where is the incentive to develop alternatives. Whether it is to find alternative ways to increase medical provision (perhaps greater use of smaller, remote sites), dealing with court backlogs, education, etc etc.
And if the thinking is not possible within government then were is the engagement with those outside government?
In fact there ARE many outside government who have invested huge amounts of time and energy trying to come up with alternative solutions. Whether they be at airports, hosts of live events, hospitality, etc etc. And yet throughout we've heard a common complaint - Government won't engage, won't commit to supporting or developing solutions, gives assurances and then changes its mind...
No wonder so many are disillusioned.
I ignore the lab leak because I don't know the truth of the situation. If people have intentionally lied they should be held accountable.
That aside, I think some scientists made mistakes (including the Warwick models). But if you put them in the dock, then in the next pandemic you'll hope for a vaccine only to find nobody step forward for fear of liability if something goes wrong. You'll want for clinical trials of treatments, but why would anyone run one, if drawing a wrong conclusion (always a statistical possibility, no matter how well-designed the trial) means facing a jury afterwards? You'll look for evidence about transmission, likely spread, impact of different mitigations. You won't get them.
Or perhaps the power-hungry, the publicity-hungry, and the risk-takers amongst the scientists will step forward. Then you'll get the advice you seek, and it will be infinitely worse.
What you're really saying is that you're unhappy about the situation and want to take it out on someone. Thankfully, you don't have the power to implement the thoughtless revenge you seek.
--AS
Let us have an inquiry into the science AND the politics. The two are inextricably linked, anyhow
See you in Cornwall ♥️