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After the Portugal decision the front pages are entirely predictable – politicalbetting.com
After the Portugal decision the front pages are entirely predictable – politicalbetting.com
The really hard part of all of this for ministers is that the vast majority of adults have now been vaccinated and it becomes hard to make the case for the continuation of strict travel controls. They got the plaudits for the vaccine roll-out and the danger is they could see the opposite over this.
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"The vast majority of adults have now been vaccinated and it becomes hard to make the case for the continuation of strict travel controls. They got the plaudits for the vaccine roll-out and the danger is they could see the opposite over this.
What many will find hard to understand is why those who have been fully vaccinated will have to be subject to long airport queues and compulsory quarantine on their return from holiday destinations. Surely proof of vaccination should be enough?"
I'm absolutely livid about this. I voted Conservatives (twice) and Green (once) last month. I am mindful right now never to give the Conservatives my support ever again. That's how angry this has made me.
The whole point of double vaccination is that we should have back our freedom. Yes, there will be case rises and some deaths but not on the previous scale and we have to take that hit. The wider damage socially, economically, emotionally, psychologically and physically is incalculable.
This is an utter nonsense. I'm fuming.
Of course that may change but there is no sign yet.
It also doesn’t help when the media constantly have zero covid zealots, like this from ‘independent’ SAGE on regularly demanding restrictions are not eased due to the Delta variant.
Most people I speak to (I run a busy pub, so speak to lots) are either resigned to this being a summer with no travel, or else have booked something abroad but never held out too much hope it would work out.
My sympathy on this front is minimal.
The pandemic isn't a new story. It disrupting travel is not unexpected.
On arrival in England you must:
quarantine at home or in the place you are staying for 10 days
take a COVID-19 test on or before day 2 and on or after day 8
...
You may be able to end quarantine early if you pay for a private COVID-19 test through the Test to Release scheme.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/red-amber-and-green-list-rules-for-entering-england#amber-list
Many folk have booked flights and are in a for a shock on return, it aint cheap (rightly so...)
You are the one needing a sense of perspective. I have received two of the amazing vaccinations and I DON'T CARE if I now risk getting covid. Why? Because I am fit and healthy and with both jabs I'm not going to die of covid. There are 15 to 20 more likely ways in which I could die. I am perfectly well aware that there is no guarantee of immunity. So what? I have criss-crossed the globe all my life, with a host of dangers and many vaccinations to attempt to keep me safe. I've lived through several other pandemics, more deadly than covid. I know full well that none of the vaccinations were guarantees of immunity just as getting in a car, crossing the road, flying on a plane, or eating my toast are not guarantees of my safety.
THAT is the perspective we all now need. Once you are double jabbed you should live your life and cast out this dreadful, disastrous, hideous fear mongering which has reduced people to wobbling wrecks.
So don't tell me to chill. This tory voter is right fucked off and Boris Johnson can stick his government up his arse.
I shan't vote for them ever again.
If it takes irrational restrictions on foreign holidays to make people wake up then great; but it will probably need a lot more than that.
And as previously suggested, why is not vaccination status, at least for British residents whose status will be known to the NHS, a factor?
This is not joined-up government.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
I lived through a cholera epidemic. Two-fifths of those around me dropped dead within a week. The vaccine was mostly ineffective.
One of those two statements is not in fact my personal experience.
In contrast to 'time to die' there is only one thing I say to Death: 'not today.'
L'Chaim.
But do you honestly think things would be any better under the Labour party? I think we would have an SNP like situation.
Once Parliament returns properly and Government can no longer do things without votes, it'll be interesting to see how this sort of thing changes.
But I do believe the Conservatives are drunk on power and they won't now yield it. It suits them to maintain this dystopian fear-mongering fantasy.
I have always taken a fairly laissez-faire attitude to rules and laws. Nothing major, you understand. The odd bit of speeding now and again. Parking infelicitously. That kind of thing.
Now I find myself becoming militantly anti-Government. Why? Because I see before me the crushing of our civil liberties. At almost every turn this allegedly libertarian Boris Johnson is in fact doing the opposite by his actions. As Michael Gove ironically predicted, once Government steals your freedom you won't ever get it back.
It's appalling.
The Government's in a relatively good spot right now and will be wary for both healthcare and political reasons of seeing another outbreak.
And yes, tons of people have been vaccinated, or at least have one jab.
B&S votes on the 17th.
I put 'give back' in ' ' because it's not his fucking freedom to give. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1400683894744272901?s=21
We wouldn't want people speculating that you are just the latest hyperbolic incarnation of SeanT!
That's fine.
Yes, I'm passionately angry about this and I voted tory last month. So disregard me all you like but Boris Johnson and the Conservatives are about to start a slide in the polls. A long, slow, decline.
Mark my words. Tell me to chill all you like but you need to stop and reflect.
Boris Johnson will not declare War Over on the home front 10 days from now. Absolutely guaranteed. He will not fully unlock on June 21st. They're drunk on power.
Because they are basically saying that it doesn’t matter whether vaccines are effective against all variants upon which they have data. There will always be others out there ready to be elevated to a level of “concern” at a moments notice.
It's called responsible government. Hell, there's enough folk on here who are happy to proclaim that same government was irresponsible in not suspending our freedoms much harder, much sooner.
Looks like Lord Frost is indeed buggering up on the protocol and the EU are considering retaliation measures.
I don’t.
This is a cock-up.
The link is the lack of pace in our vaccination drive over the last month. It has been immensely disappointing and we are paying the price both domestically with increasing cases and hospitalisations and internationally in that our travel has again been restricted.
The meme that the government has done brilliantly with the roll out of the vaccines is strong and has so far helped the government but I am surprised that people have accepted the current rate of vaccination without more fuss. Only 448k yesterday. Its pathetic and threatens both the 21st June release and holidays. If, as we should have been, we were vaccinating at twice that rate these problems would solve themselves.
In a month and a bit all the over 40s will he double vaxxed and all the over 18s vaxxed once, which should knock the stuffing out of any new variant sufficiently to buy time for a booster programme if needed, without non-pharma-intervention. Hit those vaccine hurdles and show the reopening wasn’t a cluster and then it is the right time to talk about loosening external restrictions.
Until last year most Brits never really thought about Death. Not much. When it came along it was an unwelcome intruder and a shock. But for the most part it was as sanitised as possible.
Well, Death is the one certainty of life. And you have a choice. Live in fear and under its shadow. Or make the most of every day and enjoy life as much as you can.
That doesn't mean being reckless. None of the aforementioned occasions were by choice. They happened through my job. But I would still live my life to the full in the way I have.
Because the alternative isn't living and it isn't life.
Unfortunately the Government was unclear when advising people whether they should book holidays "only if you are willing to lose the money" should have been the line. Which is why I've booked nothing and am waiting for both the UK position to stabilise and also for rules to be lifted in target countries.
Early briefings of Pentagon ufo report. 1200 incidents detailed. Secret US tech ruled out in almost all cases. Foreign tech suspected in “some” cases. Characteristics of objects such that balloons and birds are ruled out.
Conclusion left hanging. Sounds like the conclusion is We don’t know what they are and do not speculate.
Which then presumably invites a new process, this time involving civilian scientists and engineers looking at data in a more transparent manner. Whether the Handsy in Chief has the marbles and courage to give a proper speech being honest about it all I doubt but perhaps he’ll surprise me.
For a rational individual, the decision is one that weighs both sides of the equation. The key element on the other side of the equation is the medical consequences (for oneself and the knock on risk for friends and family) of catching the virus.
I suspect that people value their freedom highly, but feared dying from the virus even more. Now that the latter fear is fast receding, it is entirely reasonable that people protest more about arbitrary limitations on our freedom.
Travel should be based on vaccinations. And David L is absolutely right, our vaccination rate has been pathetic this past month. We should be jabbing 1 million a day, 24/7. Literally day and night.
You think youngsters wouldn't roll their sleeves up at 2am especially if they knew it meant they could go to Ibiza?
In fact I am typing from a “shed” (actually it’s very nice) with a buttercup meadow just outside the M25 where I have taken the kids for half term break.
But I do pity those who books travel to Portugal.
As someone notes upthread, being on the green list should have meant something.
Also you could do what my wife has done & just go anyway. Just build the self isolation and cost into your plans and cut your cloth accordingly
You must pay for and take two tests (on or before day 2 and on or after day 8) and quarantine. You have the option of paying for and taking a third test allowing you to leave quarantine early (on or after day 5). If you do take the additional test and leave quarantine early you must still take the final test on or after day 8. It really is very simple - take two tests and quarantine for 10 days or take 3 tests and leave quarantine early. In what way does that give the impression that these rules were written independently?
We will however look back and see the moment before Dom Cummings' parliamentary appearance as the apotheosis of this Government's poll ratings. Yesterday's travel fuck-up fits what Dom said about Boris: he hasn't got a handle on this and his ministers are all pulling in different directions.
They won't fully unlock on June 21st and there will be further restrictions, both domestic and international, ahead throughout this year and into next. It's evidently in their DNA.
One very angry (former) tory voter.
First I've heard of this to be honest.
But the reason our government spent extra billions on our vaccines was that we would get vaccinated fast so that we could open up our economy and travel with impunity. This is not happening and I share the general frustration about that.
That's not to definitely say it won't happen, but it would be extremely illogical given what is currently happening to UK case numbers. It makes no real sense to say that we can disregard info on case numbers in this country because of the extent to which we are vaccinated, but not make decisions on people travelling from abroad on the same basis (and remember - the restrictions are on people coming here, not people leaving this country - that is just a knock on corollary). If UK vaccination protects against rising case numbers here, then UK vaccination protects against people coming here from places with rising case numbers abroad.
And it’s laughably one sided reporting… the state frustration at “refusal to consider an SPS agreement” but forget to add the words “containing dynamic alignment”. The UL would be fine with an SPS agreement based on alignment
We don't seem to know much about this so-called Nepalese variant, but there's no data that it presents any special risk. Indeed I saw it described as a minor tweak of the existing Indian variant (although the difference between a sub-variant and another variant eludes me), with which we are already awash.
The act of flying to and from Portugal does carry some additional risk, for sure, but then there are flights arriving at our airports still from all over, including many criss-crossing within the UK, and no-one seems particularly concerned about limiting this risk.
It's been the case for centuries that during a pandemic many people instinctively try and shun anything foreign, and this obsession with stopping travel to and from relatively safe destinations appears to come from the same mould.
Many of the tourists interviewed this morning make the point that they feel safer in Portugal because the regulations and protocols are more widely observed and enforced than they are at home, which is the same feeling I had travelling Germany and Italy last September.
The place where I was there was no ORS. And getting sufficient fluids into people who are spewing it out from every orifice is the sort of comment from someone sitting in their comfy armchair who has never been in the situation. Even when we managed to get saline drips in, it was not guaranteed they would survive.
If you don't know what you're talking about, which you don't, belt up.
p.s. although I will mention a bemusing aside. There is a theory that you can stick a line into a coconut and then I/v. We never quite got that far but we very nearly did.
The simplest and most logical explanation is that we are up against supply limitations and therefore moving a load of different vaccine onto the island would have meant finding somewhere else to take it from.
It's really frustrating because we could potentially double the first dose rate with more evening appointment availablity but the government is just ignoring this need and trying to cram busy under 40s into the 6pm-8pm and reduced weekend capacity appointments.
Many European countries exempt the double vaccinated from quarantine. Once it is open to all adults we could do the same here.
I therefore do not think that Frost has "buggered up" the protocol, he has simply said that it will not work and is not acceptable to us. That puts us in breach but finding a response to that by the EU that does not amount to self harm will be tricky.
The EU has run a surplus of the thick end of £90bn of surplus in goods with the UK for a long time. That is starting to change fairly fast and the more restrictions they put on the faster it will change. If, as was being alleged yesterday, they allow "red tape" to increase the cost of food supplied by them we will simply buy our food somewhere else. The EU is currently losing far more trade than we are. Do they really want to make that even worse?
But in the United States of America - a place where Delta Covid also roams - there is not even the slightest suggestion that restrictions will last beyond the middle of this month.
In every State across the US, restrictions are being removed... permanently. Indeed, restrictions have been being removed for about 10 weeks now.
Domestic and international air travel is returning, with the number of flights between the US and Mexico almost double the level of January. Total passenger volume is back to 2 million passengers a day - that's only a smidgen below the levels of 2019, and up 700% year-over-year.
And you know what's happening to hospitalisations and deaths. They're continuing to fall.
My top tip for more minor gastro-enteritis for travelers is full sugar sodas and a large packet of crisps. The sugar helps with absorption of the salt. Feel better within hours.
But if people really want 2 weeks abroad they can just take the quarantine time out of their remaining holiday time (admittedly that doesn’t work for gig workers but thats a much bigger abuse that needs to be fixed)
I thought that the Nepal version had been shown not to exist the other day, or did I miss something?
They don’t have good data on whatever new variant is circulating in Portugal.
To me the policy should be simple at this point. We use vaccination to return to normal domestically while keeping the backdoor shut. As other countries reach herd immunity through vaccination we open up travel to them, probably with a requirement that any travellers incoming or outgoing are double vaxxed. For other countries where new variants are still popping up, well we’ll have to wait until 2022 when they have their house in order.
Other posters are right that there’s no strategic thinking to any of this, it’s all just reactionary bollocks. The government should be clear: we will do everything in our power to open fully in June and ensure no domestic winter restrictions. And this is how we will achieve it...
Instead it’s all wishy washy “yes laura people deserve a holiday”.
We have the supply, we're now facing logistics issues of matching busy under 40s with appointments at the right time of day or on the weekend or in the right part of where they live (near their place of work rather than home).
For the first time the rigid rollout which has helped us is now becoming a hindrance. Time to just open up to all 18+ and get vaccine centres opening from 11am to 11pm. The order in which 18-29 years olds are vaccinated isn't a huge deal, getting as many done as possible in the next 7 days is.
Which is rather a long way away from there are aliens out there.
Pb: when can I go on holiday?
'One should not be a name dropper, as Her Majesty said to me yesterday.'
As one historian put it (I paraphrase), partition was not a solution rather it put the problem in a deep freeze, and sooner or later problems have to come out of the deep freeze.
But now the registration has been deferred to Q3: https://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/novavax_announces_further_delays_for_regulatory_filings_of_covid-19_vaccine_1369844
No one's fault, these things happen but it hasn't helped.