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Great news for those of us who like laying Gammons, Laurence Fox, Shaun Bailey, and Brian Rose – pol

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Comments

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585

    66 constituency seats for the SNP seems really implausible.

    I wonder how reliable the modelling in the constituency vote is at those extremes.
    It is implausible. I think we can ignore their forecasts.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,030
    Something more interesting that takes its name from Oxford:

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/31305905884/


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    edited April 2021
    "23,913 people are currently predicted to have symptomatic COVID in the UK"

    https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

    Equivalent to about 37 people in each Westminster constituency.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,689

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘The die is cast,’ said Markus Söder in a press conference yesterday as he stepped back to allow his rival Armin Laschet to run as the chancellor candidate for the conservatives in Germany’s upcoming election. This ominous phrase was carefully chosen by a man who thought a disastrously wrong decision had been made by the CDU elite.

    Söder was by far the most popular chancellor candidate, and had a 20 point lead over his conservative competitor in the polls. Söder, the minister-president of Bavaria, won his own state and the wider German public over with his straight-talking and decisive action during the pandemic. With the charismatic Bavarian at the helm, Merkel’s CDU/CSU would have stood a good chance of not only retaining power, but winning the election comfortably." (£)

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/merkel-s-successor-could-be-a-disaster-for-germany

    A remarkably dense decision by the CDU. It's a bit like an alternate history in which the Tories in 2019 plumped for Michael Gove to revive their fortunes instead of Boris...
    Maybe the CDU (rather than worrying about tory leadership elections) remember the Schulz-Effekt from last time. Choosing Martin Schulz as chancellor candidate (rather than their leader at the time Sigmar Gabriel) gave the SPD an immediate, but temporary, 10 point boost in the polls. In the end they got pretty much exactly what the polls were showing before he was chosen.

    Current polling (apart from one poll showing the Greens in the lead) is almost exactly the same as it was in the months before the coronavirus crisis really hit in March 2020. I doubt that having Söder as candidate would help the CDU that much, though it probably wouldn't hurt.
    The difference is that Schulz had no track record in domestic electoral politics. He’d been an MEP for over 20 years.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    dixiedean said:

    I feel another song coming on.

    Six feet six he stood on the ground
    Weighed 235 pounds.
    But I saw that giant of a man brought down to his knees by a thing called...

    Passing skirt? Serial mendacity? Dodgy texting?
    No. These things revive and energise him.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN3exiuyQJc

    Every day at the Commons you'd see him arrive
    Stood five foot seven
    Weighed 245
    Slouched at the shoulder
    And wobbly at the hip
    Everybody knew that he needed a kip
    Big Boz,
    Big Boz,
    Big Bad Boz.
    Blimey, I haven't heard that song for well over half a century, but I owned it on a 7" single when I was aged about nine.

    Mind you, I preferred this derivative version:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX4BfrSWK8Q
  • ridaligoridaligo Posts: 174

    dixiedean said:

    Been thinking about this Agnelli quote about Brexit.
    The man is an incompetent, greedy buffoon, but he does have the germ of a point.
    Hear me out.
    When Super League was announced, the reaction in Spain and Italy was pretty much the same as here. Most fans furiously opposed. But the reaction was a shrug of frustration. Nowt we can do against global, rapacious capital.
    But Brexit (and the pandemic too) has shown summat CAN be done. A furious minority of the population presented a vote hungry government with a one yard tap in to the empty net of the international oligarchy.
    Brexit showed there are plenty of electoral rewards to be gained from slamming it in the net.
    A government which can leave the EU, close pubs, house all the homeless over the weekend and nationalise transport can do WTF it wants.
    And very quickly.
    Not sure this will always play to the government's advantage, but, am sure they wouldn't have gone in studs up at the rebel 6 with such speed and relish pre-Brexit either.

    I think there’s a lot in this. The Government, (and the electorate) have seen things done this year at real pace. See also vaccines and testing.

    We don’t know where this will end up, but it must be quite scary for small state Thatcherite types, because politics is going interventionist, and it’s being led that way by a Tory party that more in touch with its view from the 50s and the 20s (depending on the issue) than from the 80s and 90s.

    I certainly think it’s an opportunity for Labour. Drop the “woke” crap and focus on things like “we ended homelessness overnight, let’s do that all the time”, “let’s think big on climate change” and “let’s support the unemployed better the rest of the time too”.
    The point about climate change is the real worry.

    If you view COVID as an authoritarian trial run, then it's easy to see restrictions or directives being applied to, for example, movement of people for work (commuting, parking), air travel (domestic and international, business and leisure), diet (veganism, obesity), home heating ... indeed all of these are being actively trailed this week.

    Politicians will use "new normal" post COVID to force a lot of these changes on us IMHO.
  • Breaking

    Man Utd Chairman Joel Glazer apologises unreservedly for the unrest caused by our involvement in ESL
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    edited April 2021

    dixiedean said:

    Been thinking about this Agnelli quote about Brexit.
    The man is an incompetent, greedy buffoon, but he does have the germ of a point.
    Hear me out.
    When Super League was announced, the reaction in Spain and Italy was pretty much the same as here. Most fans furiously opposed. But the reaction was a shrug of frustration. Nowt we can do against global, rapacious capital.
    But Brexit (and the pandemic too) has shown summat CAN be done. A furious minority of the population presented a vote hungry government with a one yard tap in to the empty net of the international oligarchy.
    Brexit showed there are plenty of electoral rewards to be gained from slamming it in the net.
    A government which can leave the EU, close pubs, house all the homeless over the weekend and nationalise transport can do WTF it wants.
    And very quickly.
    Not sure this will always play to the government's advantage, but, am sure they wouldn't have gone in studs up at the rebel 6 with such speed and relish pre-Brexit either.

    I think there’s a lot in this. The Government, (and the electorate) have seen things done this year at real pace. See also vaccines and testing.

    We don’t know where this will end up, but it must be quite scary for small state Thatcherite types, because politics is going interventionist, and it’s being led that way by a Tory party that more in touch with its view from the 50s and the 20s (depending on the issue) than from the 80s and 90s.

    I certainly think it’s an opportunity for Labour. Drop the “woke” crap and focus on things like “we ended homelessness overnight, let’s do that all the time”, “let’s think big on climate change” and “let’s support the unemployed better the rest of the time too”.
    Labour would rather find itself with 50 MPs than drop the woke stuff. They're true believers, as are the Democrats in the United States.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    Cookie said:

    AlistairM said:

    Continuing good news on the stats in the UK.


    So far we are not seeing much of an increase from the schools going back and the opening on the 12th. Looking good so far. In other news, after a brief wobble last week, my Uni is now pressing ahead with full graduation in July (for both this year and last years graduates). Will be interesting to see what the take up is like, and whether we are truly with no restrictions by then.
    Positive tests by date of test are showing signs of flatlining again - on past form I'd expect to see this reflected in the headline figure (i.e. by reporting date) within a few days. Probably based on nothing more than increased testing in recent days and hopefully only temporary.
    I think this would be expected as most schools have gone back this week.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    edited April 2021

    kinabalu said:

    For all those excited at the thought of a tall Boris

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1384877566008385537?s=20

    Just skimmed the "rollonfriday" forum on this subject and came across the following comment from a poster called "BREXITBREXIT" (their caps).

    "HE’S THE LEADER OF BREXIT BRITAIN AND A TOWERING COLOSSUS OF A MAN: IN MY ESTIMATION HE IS SIX FOOT TWO ALL MUSCLE."

    Sound familiar?
    Shame he didn't claim that Boris was Six Foot Four.

    We could have started a rumour that he was a man from Brussels.
    Ah ha. Get that now (when put with Nigel's comment). Very good.

    "I said do you speaka my language. He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich."

    That's one of the great couplets. It's right up there with -

    "I was sick and tired of everything. When I called you last night from Glasgow."
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    tlg86 said:

    gealbhan said:

    dixiedean said:

    Been thinking about this Agnelli quote about Brexit.
    The man is an incompetent, greedy buffoon, but he does have the germ of a point.
    Hear me out.
    When Super League was announced, the reaction in Spain and Italy was pretty much the same as here. Most fans furiously opposed. But the reaction was a shrug of frustration. Nowt we can do against global, rapacious capital.
    But Brexit (and the pandemic too) has shown summat CAN be done. A furious minority of the population presented a vote hungry government with a one yard tap in to the empty net of the international oligarchy.
    Brexit showed there are plenty of electoral rewards to be gained from slamming it in the net.
    A government which can leave the EU, close pubs, house all the homeless over the weekend and nationalise transport can do WTF it wants.
    And very quickly.
    Not sure this will always play to the government's advantage, but, am sure they wouldn't have gone in studs up at the rebel 6 with such speed and relish pre-Brexit either.

    Waving tiny skinny fists and thinking you are beating the inevitable does tie brexit and super league together.

    You can’t have status qou, you have to acknowledge change. People opposed super league on basis football isn’t broken, this will break it. They were wrong and foolish to think that. Mistakenly thought greed was driving it, not debt. They said things like they were not bothered by owners financial difficulties without realising the business model of their club is not viable anymore. Brexit was the same we can have what we want without consequence, which is not true, you can’t.
    If the Big 3 and Spurs go under (Man City and Chelsea are immune), that will be good.

    There was an Everton fan on TalkSPORT who was embracing it, and I don’t blame him. Football could do with a big reset.
    Everton fans opposed super league to destroy Liverpool and Man U. Liverpool and Man U fans opposed super league because, well, because they are not very bright.

    The safest bet in town now is the UEFA revamp looks so very similar to this proposal, but with much less income the rest of football would have got from SL.

    Meanwhile the huge threat to the PL, it’s busted business model, has not been addressed, nor unsustainable post covid debt, and football in England remains in big trouble.

    Evidence for this? There has to be interest in the product. If TV deals half because of falling interest, that equates to sizeable devastation, not merely belt tightening. I guess fans of clubs feel their wealthy owners will save them? Or that the club is too big and wealthy to fail? 🤣


    To be honest why suggest Man Utd lifetime supporters are not bright

    I would suggest I have had far more involvement in football , its fans, and the clubs over the last 70 years than anything you have and to be honest I want the owners out and do not really worry about the consequences

    And you are wrong about the Premier League which will continue to be lucrative for the TV companies and UEFAs champions league as is or improved will be also

    But it’s true though. Everton fans oppose SL because they want Man U and Liverpool out of existence. Man U and Liverpool fans oppose SL because they don’t appreciate how the business model is heading to crash, and how much trouble their club is in.

    Interest in the sterile football product of PL and CL is dropping at alarming rate, whose going to pay silly money for both again?

    So as cookie says, just pay the players and agents less then.

    Well, as I explained last night

    1). most fans are primarily concerned with the first team and its management, if you break down all the different components which make up the business you will see that there are an awful lot of them to which little attention is paid and so they are ripe for malaise.

    2). How quickly can you start paying less when you can’t pay the bills any more. Players have contracts, are you going to ask them to rip em up to save the club?

    3). And a simple logic statement. What’s good about Premier League so many follow it allowing it to generate so much money? So many of worlds best players are in it. So what happens when so many of the worlds best players are not in it?


  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    For all those excited at the thought of a tall Boris

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1384877566008385537?s=20

    Just skimmed the "rollonfriday" forum on this subject and came across the following comment from a poster called "BREXITBREXIT" (their caps).

    "HE’S THE LEADER OF BREXIT BRITAIN AND A TOWERING COLOSSUS OF A MAN: IN MY ESTIMATION HE IS SIX FOOT TWO ALL MUSCLE."

    Sound familiar?
    Shame he didn't claim that Boris was Six Foot Four.

    We could have started a rumour that he was a man from Brussels.
    Ah ha. Get that now (when put with Nigel's comment). Very good.

    "I said do you speaka my language. He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich."

    That's one of the great couplets. It's right up there with -

    "I was sick and tired of everything. When I called you last night from Glasgow."
    Your invisible now,
    You've got no secrets to conceal.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    @Philip_Thompson states Boris's weight peak was 17.5 stone.

    17.5 is 17 stone 7lbs.

    17 stone 7lbs is 245lbs.

    In the classic song Big Bad John, the protagonist weighs... 245lbs.

    Conspiracy theory? You do the math.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Were we not expecting Khan to win this on the first round at one point? 41% for Labour in London doesn't seem that special although it will clearly be enough to win.

    The LibDems must be regretting not trying harder with a celebrity candidate.
    The Tories must be regretting not trying harder to find a candidate.
    They could have had an absolutely brilliant candidate. Instead they hounded him out of the party.
    That's what happens when MPs vote against the whip on a matter of confidence.

    Did you object to Major expelling Rupert Allason so vociferously?
    Why should I have done? Rupert Allason was hardly a major figure of the sort the party desperately needs, like Rory Stewart, Phil Hammond, Amber Rudd or David Gauke.
    You should because either you're OK with parties expelling those who don't back their own Government after an issue is deemed a matter of Confidence, or you're not. You seem to want to have it both ways.

    Besides neither were any of them the sort needed, as the eighty seat majority won after they went rather demonstrates.

    Phil Hammond like Grieve represented all that was wrong with the Tory party and the morass it had sunk into under May's tenure. Cleaning out the stables was a much needed action not a mistake.
  • EXCL: Johnny Mercer has called the British government “the most distrustful, awful environment I've ever worked in”, in his first interview since being sacked as Veterans Minister last night. Listen to it on @TimesRadio in a few minutes.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384899952573304832
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nice Oxford comma.

    The Oxford comma is best thing ever to come out of Oxford, ever.
    Things which have come out of Oxford:
    Commas
    Pillow cases (rubbish ones - I feel surprisingly strongly about this)
    Shirts
    Brogues
    Vaccines

    Is there a medium sized city with as many nouns attached as Oxford? I suggest not.
    Marmalade
    Accent

    Oxford is the weave of the cotton, not the shirt itself.
    Bags (i.e. trousers)
    Movement.
    Pass degree
    Morris Oxford

    Mornington Crescent?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    For all those excited at the thought of a tall Boris

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1384877566008385537?s=20

    Just skimmed the "rollonfriday" forum on this subject and came across the following comment from a poster called "BREXITBREXIT" (their caps).

    "HE’S THE LEADER OF BREXIT BRITAIN AND A TOWERING COLOSSUS OF A MAN: IN MY ESTIMATION HE IS SIX FOOT TWO ALL MUSCLE."

    Sound familiar?
    Is it you?

    Considering that you tried to deny he was a 17.5 stone obese man?

    And why do you want to start this convo again? 🤔
    No, don't worry, I don't, and I know it's not you. The style has nothing in common. Just amused to see another reference to him being "all muscle". You have backup.
    I never said he was all muscle, I said I thought he was 17.5 stone. You think he's never been that heavy, I think you're deluded. Just look at some pictures, in the words of Biden "come on, man!"
    Truly, following the ins and outs of Girtherism gets more complicated by the day. How long before @kinabalu demands to see the long-form girth certificate? :wink:
    It's Philip's fault.

    Hawaii he had to claim Boris Johnson was "mainly muscle" and had "good strong legs" from cycling, I do not know, and suspect I never will.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827

    EXCL: Johnny Mercer has called the British government “the most distrustful, awful environment I've ever worked in”, in his first interview since being sacked as Veterans Minister last night. Listen to it on @TimesRadio in a few minutes.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384899952573304832

    Perhaps he would prefer it if they had a law saying govt minister cant ever be prosecuted as well.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    EXCL: Johnny Mercer has called the British government “the most distrustful, awful environment I've ever worked in”, in his first interview since being sacked as Veterans Minister last night. Listen to it on @TimesRadio in a few minutes.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384899952573304832

    Is the market going to overreact and make him favourite for next PM or something daft? Time to lay Johnny?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    tlg86 said:

    gealbhan said:

    dixiedean said:

    Been thinking about this Agnelli quote about Brexit.
    The man is an incompetent, greedy buffoon, but he does have the germ of a point.
    Hear me out.
    When Super League was announced, the reaction in Spain and Italy was pretty much the same as here. Most fans furiously opposed. But the reaction was a shrug of frustration. Nowt we can do against global, rapacious capital.
    But Brexit (and the pandemic too) has shown summat CAN be done. A furious minority of the population presented a vote hungry government with a one yard tap in to the empty net of the international oligarchy.
    Brexit showed there are plenty of electoral rewards to be gained from slamming it in the net.
    A government which can leave the EU, close pubs, house all the homeless over the weekend and nationalise transport can do WTF it wants.
    And very quickly.
    Not sure this will always play to the government's advantage, but, am sure they wouldn't have gone in studs up at the rebel 6 with such speed and relish pre-Brexit either.

    Waving tiny skinny fists and thinking you are beating the inevitable does tie brexit and super league together.

    You can’t have status qou, you have to acknowledge change. People opposed super league on basis football isn’t broken, this will break it. They were wrong and foolish to think that. Mistakenly thought greed was driving it, not debt. They said things like they were not bothered by owners financial difficulties without realising the business model of their club is not viable anymore. Brexit was the same we can have what we want without consequence, which is not true, you can’t.
    If the Big 3 and Spurs go under (Man City and Chelsea are immune), that will be good.

    There was an Everton fan on TalkSPORT who was embracing it, and I don’t blame him. Football could do with a big reset.
    Everton fans opposed super league to destroy Liverpool and Man U. Liverpool and Man U fans opposed super league because, well, because they are not very bright.

    The safest bet in town now is the UEFA revamp looks so very similar to this proposal, but with much less income the rest of football would have got from SL.

    Meanwhile the huge threat to the PL, it’s busted business model, has not been addressed, nor unsustainable post covid debt, and football in England remains in big trouble.

    Evidence for this? There has to be interest in the product. If TV deals half because of falling interest, that equates to sizeable devastation, not merely belt tightening. I guess fans of clubs feel their wealthy owners will save them? Or that the club is too big and wealthy to fail? 🤣


    To be honest why suggest Man Utd lifetime supporters are not bright

    I would suggest I have had far more involvement in football , its fans, and the clubs over the last 70 years than anything you have and to be honest I want the owners out and do not really worry about the consequences

    And you are wrong about the Premier League which will continue to be lucrative for the TV companies and UEFAs champions league as is or improved will be also

    But it’s true though. Everton fans oppose SL because they want Man U and Liverpool out of existence. Man U and Liverpool fans oppose SL because they don’t appreciate how the business model is heading to crash, and how much trouble their club is in.

    Interest in the sterile football product of PL and CL is dropping at alarming rate, whose going to pay silly money for both again?

    So as cookie says, just pay the players and agents less then.

    Well, as I explained last night

    1). most fans are primarily concerned with the first team and its management, if you break down all the different components which make up the business you will see that there are an awful lot of them to which little attention is paid and so they are ripe for malaise.

    2). How quickly can you start paying less when you can’t pay the bills any more. Players have contracts, are you going to ask them to rip em up to save the club?

    3). And a simple logic statement. What’s good about Premier League so many follow it allowing it to generate so much money? So many of worlds best players are in it. So what happens when so many of the worlds best players are not in it?


    United has been getting deeper and deeper into debt under the Glazers so absolutely I can understand that they're in trouble.

    The public accounts for Liverpool show that under FSG the club has been getting out of debt. Pre-pandemic five of the past six years the club made a net profit and debts were getting paid off not increased - club debt had been reduced considerably over the past decade.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856

    EXCL: Johnny Mercer has called the British government “the most distrustful, awful environment I've ever worked in”, in his first interview since being sacked as Veterans Minister last night. Listen to it on @TimesRadio in a few minutes.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384899952573304832

    That letter reads more like he quit than was sacked. He's burning his bridges once again. Surely the last time.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    For all those excited at the thought of a tall Boris

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1384877566008385537?s=20

    Just skimmed the "rollonfriday" forum on this subject and came across the following comment from a poster called "BREXITBREXIT" (their caps).

    "HE’S THE LEADER OF BREXIT BRITAIN AND A TOWERING COLOSSUS OF A MAN: IN MY ESTIMATION HE IS SIX FOOT TWO ALL MUSCLE."

    Sound familiar?
    Is it you?

    Considering that you tried to deny he was a 17.5 stone obese man?

    And why do you want to start this convo again? 🤔
    No, don't worry, I don't, and I know it's not you. The style has nothing in common. Just amused to see another reference to him being "all muscle". You have backup.
    I never said he was all muscle, I said I thought he was 17.5 stone. You think he's never been that heavy, I think you're deluded. Just look at some pictures, in the words of Biden "come on, man!"
    Truly, following the ins and outs of Girtherism gets more complicated by the day. How long before @kinabalu demands to see the long-form girth certificate? :wink:
    It's Philip's fault.

    Hawaii he had to claim Boris Johnson was "mainly muscle" and had "good strong legs" from cycling, I do not know, and suspect I never will.
    Why you had to Trump up a Girther Conspiracy is beyond me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873

    Something more interesting that takes its name from Oxford:

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/31305905884/


    Hmm, gricers aren't what they were. He can't even get the loco number right twice.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,821
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    tlg86 said:

    gealbhan said:

    dixiedean said:

    Been thinking about this Agnelli quote about Brexit.
    The man is an incompetent, greedy buffoon, but he does have the germ of a point.
    Hear me out.
    When Super League was announced, the reaction in Spain and Italy was pretty much the same as here. Most fans furiously opposed. But the reaction was a shrug of frustration. Nowt we can do against global, rapacious capital.
    But Brexit (and the pandemic too) has shown summat CAN be done. A furious minority of the population presented a vote hungry government with a one yard tap in to the empty net of the international oligarchy.
    Brexit showed there are plenty of electoral rewards to be gained from slamming it in the net.
    A government which can leave the EU, close pubs, house all the homeless over the weekend and nationalise transport can do WTF it wants.
    And very quickly.
    Not sure this will always play to the government's advantage, but, am sure they wouldn't have gone in studs up at the rebel 6 with such speed and relish pre-Brexit either.

    Waving tiny skinny fists and thinking you are beating the inevitable does tie brexit and super league together.

    You can’t have status qou, you have to acknowledge change. People opposed super league on basis football isn’t broken, this will break it. They were wrong and foolish to think that. Mistakenly thought greed was driving it, not debt. They said things like they were not bothered by owners financial difficulties without realising the business model of their club is not viable anymore. Brexit was the same we can have what we want without consequence, which is not true, you can’t.
    If the Big 3 and Spurs go under (Man City and Chelsea are immune), that will be good.

    There was an Everton fan on TalkSPORT who was embracing it, and I don’t blame him. Football could do with a big reset.
    Everton fans opposed super league to destroy Liverpool and Man U. Liverpool and Man U fans opposed super league because, well, because they are not very bright.

    The safest bet in town now is the UEFA revamp looks so very similar to this proposal, but with much less income the rest of football would have got from SL.

    Meanwhile the huge threat to the PL, it’s busted business model, has not been addressed, nor unsustainable post covid debt, and football in England remains in big trouble.

    Evidence for this? There has to be interest in the product. If TV deals half because of falling interest, that equates to sizeable devastation, not merely belt tightening. I guess fans of clubs feel their wealthy owners will save them? Or that the club is too big and wealthy to fail? 🤣


    To be honest why suggest Man Utd lifetime supporters are not bright

    I would suggest I have had far more involvement in football , its fans, and the clubs over the last 70 years than anything you have and to be honest I want the owners out and do not really worry about the consequences

    And you are wrong about the Premier League which will continue to be lucrative for the TV companies and UEFAs champions league as is or improved will be also

    But it’s true though. Everton fans oppose SL because they want Man U and Liverpool out of existence. Man U and Liverpool fans oppose SL because they don’t appreciate how the business model is heading to crash, and how much trouble their club is in.

    Interest in the sterile football product of PL and CL is dropping at alarming rate, whose going to pay silly money for both again?

    So as cookie says, just pay the players and agents less then.

    Well, as I explained last night

    1). most fans are primarily concerned with the first team and its management, if you break down all the different components which make up the business you will see that there are an awful lot of them to which little attention is paid and so they are ripe for malaise.

    2). How quickly can you start paying less when you can’t pay the bills any more. Players have contracts, are you going to ask them to rip em up to save the club?

    3). And a simple logic statement. What’s good about Premier League so many follow it allowing it to generate so much money? So many of worlds best players are in it. So what happens when so many of the worlds best players are not in it?


    Football existed before the Premier League was a 'global brand' (ugh). When we didn't have a cavalcade of global megastars in it, apart from the ones who happen to have started out from here. I don't see why it can't exist again like that, if it comes to it.
  • EXCL: Johnny Mercer has called the British government “the most distrustful, awful environment I've ever worked in”, in his first interview since being sacked as Veterans Minister last night. Listen to it on @TimesRadio in a few minutes.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384899952573304832

    Maybe he should resign completely
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    For all those excited at the thought of a tall Boris

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1384877566008385537?s=20

    Just skimmed the "rollonfriday" forum on this subject and came across the following comment from a poster called "BREXITBREXIT" (their caps).

    "HE’S THE LEADER OF BREXIT BRITAIN AND A TOWERING COLOSSUS OF A MAN: IN MY ESTIMATION HE IS SIX FOOT TWO ALL MUSCLE."

    Sound familiar?
    Is it you?

    Considering that you tried to deny he was a 17.5 stone obese man?

    And why do you want to start this convo again? 🤔
    No, don't worry, I don't, and I know it's not you. The style has nothing in common. Just amused to see another reference to him being "all muscle". You have backup.
    I never said he was all muscle, I said I thought he was 17.5 stone. You think he's never been that heavy, I think you're deluded. Just look at some pictures, in the words of Biden "come on, man!"
    Truly, following the ins and outs of Girtherism gets more complicated by the day. How long before @kinabalu demands to see the long-form girth certificate? :wink:
    It's Philip's fault.

    Hawaii he had to claim Boris Johnson was "mainly muscle" and had "good strong legs" from cycling, I do not know, and suspect I never will.
    Why you had to Trump up a Girther Conspiracy is beyond me.
    For a few belly laughs?
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Were we not expecting Khan to win this on the first round at one point? 41% for Labour in London doesn't seem that special although it will clearly be enough to win.

    The LibDems must be regretting not trying harder with a celebrity candidate.
    The Tories must be regretting not trying harder to find a candidate.
    They could have had an absolutely brilliant candidate. Instead they hounded him out of the party.
    That's what happens when MPs vote against the whip on a matter of confidence.

    Did you object to Major expelling Rupert Allason so vociferously?
    Allason had the whip withdrawn but wasn't hounded out of the party by Major. He stood (and lost) as a Conservative at the subsequent election.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    For all those excited at the thought of a tall Boris

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1384877566008385537?s=20

    Just skimmed the "rollonfriday" forum on this subject and came across the following comment from a poster called "BREXITBREXIT" (their caps).

    "HE’S THE LEADER OF BREXIT BRITAIN AND A TOWERING COLOSSUS OF A MAN: IN MY ESTIMATION HE IS SIX FOOT TWO ALL MUSCLE."

    Sound familiar?
    Shame he didn't claim that Boris was Six Foot Four.

    We could have started a rumour that he was a man from Brussels.
    Ah ha. Get that now (when put with Nigel's comment). Very good.

    "I said do you speaka my language. He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich."

    That's one of the great couplets. It's right up there with -

    "I was sick and tired of everything. When I called you last night from Glasgow."
    Your invisible now,
    You've got no secrets to conceal.
    That one is a class above. It's Bob Dylan after all.

    "The empty handed painter from your streets. Is drawing crazy patterns on your sheets."

    So many, so many, with his Bobness.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    tlg86 said:

    gealbhan said:

    dixiedean said:

    Been thinking about this Agnelli quote about Brexit.
    The man is an incompetent, greedy buffoon, but he does have the germ of a point.
    Hear me out.
    When Super League was announced, the reaction in Spain and Italy was pretty much the same as here. Most fans furiously opposed. But the reaction was a shrug of frustration. Nowt we can do against global, rapacious capital.
    But Brexit (and the pandemic too) has shown summat CAN be done. A furious minority of the population presented a vote hungry government with a one yard tap in to the empty net of the international oligarchy.
    Brexit showed there are plenty of electoral rewards to be gained from slamming it in the net.
    A government which can leave the EU, close pubs, house all the homeless over the weekend and nationalise transport can do WTF it wants.
    And very quickly.
    Not sure this will always play to the government's advantage, but, am sure they wouldn't have gone in studs up at the rebel 6 with such speed and relish pre-Brexit either.

    Waving tiny skinny fists and thinking you are beating the inevitable does tie brexit and super league together.

    You can’t have status qou, you have to acknowledge change. People opposed super league on basis football isn’t broken, this will break it. They were wrong and foolish to think that. Mistakenly thought greed was driving it, not debt. They said things like they were not bothered by owners financial difficulties without realising the business model of their club is not viable anymore. Brexit was the same we can have what we want without consequence, which is not true, you can’t.
    If the Big 3 and Spurs go under (Man City and Chelsea are immune), that will be good.

    There was an Everton fan on TalkSPORT who was embracing it, and I don’t blame him. Football could do with a big reset.
    Everton fans opposed super league to destroy Liverpool and Man U. Liverpool and Man U fans opposed super league because, well, because they are not very bright.

    The safest bet in town now is the UEFA revamp looks so very similar to this proposal, but with much less income the rest of football would have got from SL.

    Meanwhile the huge threat to the PL, it’s busted business model, has not been addressed, nor unsustainable post covid debt, and football in England remains in big trouble.

    Evidence for this? There has to be interest in the product. If TV deals half because of falling interest, that equates to sizeable devastation, not merely belt tightening. I guess fans of clubs feel their wealthy owners will save them? Or that the club is too big and wealthy to fail? 🤣


    To be honest why suggest Man Utd lifetime supporters are not bright

    I would suggest I have had far more involvement in football , its fans, and the clubs over the last 70 years than anything you have and to be honest I want the owners out and do not really worry about the consequences

    And you are wrong about the Premier League which will continue to be lucrative for the TV companies and UEFAs champions league as is or improved will be also

    But it’s true though. Everton fans oppose SL because they want Man U and Liverpool out of existence. Man U and Liverpool fans oppose SL because they don’t appreciate how the business model is heading to crash, and how much trouble their club is in.

    Interest in the sterile football product of PL and CL is dropping at alarming rate, whose going to pay silly money for both again?

    So as cookie says, just pay the players and agents less then.

    Well, as I explained last night

    1). most fans are primarily concerned with the first team and its management, if you break down all the different components which make up the business you will see that there are an awful lot of them to which little attention is paid and so they are ripe for malaise.

    2). How quickly can you start paying less when you can’t pay the bills any more. Players have contracts, are you going to ask them to rip em up to save the club?

    3). And a simple logic statement. What’s good about Premier League so many follow it allowing it to generate so much money? So many of worlds best players are in it. So what happens when so many of the worlds best players are not in it?


    United has been getting deeper and deeper into debt under the Glazers so absolutely I can understand that they're in trouble.

    The public accounts for Liverpool show that under FSG the club has been getting out of debt. Pre-pandemic five of the past six years the club made a net profit and debts were getting paid off not increased - club debt had been reduced considerably over the past decade.
    Neither of them are remotely in any difficulty. Utd recently decided to keep Mata for another year at wages of over £8m per year. He hardly plays and will play even less next year.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    edited April 2021
    "YouTube prankster Niko Omilana set to deny Sadiq Khan landslide victory in London mayoral race

    Hilarity on social media as poll suggests Laurence Fox and UKIP’s Peter Gammons have as much support as Count Binface"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/youtube-niko-omilana-sadiq-khan-victory-london-mayor-elections-b930873.html
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    For all those excited at the thought of a tall Boris

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1384877566008385537?s=20

    Just skimmed the "rollonfriday" forum on this subject and came across the following comment from a poster called "BREXITBREXIT" (their caps).

    "HE’S THE LEADER OF BREXIT BRITAIN AND A TOWERING COLOSSUS OF A MAN: IN MY ESTIMATION HE IS SIX FOOT TWO ALL MUSCLE."

    Sound familiar?
    Is it you?

    Considering that you tried to deny he was a 17.5 stone obese man?

    And why do you want to start this convo again? 🤔
    No, don't worry, I don't, and I know it's not you. The style has nothing in common. Just amused to see another reference to him being "all muscle". You have backup.
    I never said he was all muscle, I said I thought he was 17.5 stone. You think he's never been that heavy, I think you're deluded. Just look at some pictures, in the words of Biden "come on, man!"
    Truly, following the ins and outs of Girtherism gets more complicated by the day. How long before @kinabalu demands to see the long-form girth certificate? :wink:
    It's Philip's fault.

    Hawaii he had to claim Boris Johnson was "mainly muscle" and had "good strong legs" from cycling, I do not know, and suspect I never will.
    Why you had to Trump up a Girther Conspiracy is beyond me.
    For a few belly laughs?
    As he pounds away at the issue.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2021

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Were we not expecting Khan to win this on the first round at one point? 41% for Labour in London doesn't seem that special although it will clearly be enough to win.

    The LibDems must be regretting not trying harder with a celebrity candidate.
    The Tories must be regretting not trying harder to find a candidate.
    They could have had an absolutely brilliant candidate. Instead they hounded him out of the party.
    That's what happens when MPs vote against the whip on a matter of confidence.

    Did you object to Major expelling Rupert Allason so vociferously?
    Allason had the whip withdrawn but wasn't hounded out of the party by Major. He stood (and lost) as a Conservative at the subsequent election.
    Yes he regained the whip after a period of remaining loyal to the party. As did 10 MPs that voted with the party after losing the whip, those that continued to vote against the party didn't unsurprisingly.
  • I might consider a Tory vote with Mercer at the helm. Seems a decent bloke
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    Makmentum is under way at last. Alan Mak, Tory MP for Toady-upon-Fawn, has been made a whip just six years after being named Most Likely to Kiss Arse of the 2015 intake. I used to write about him a lot, beginning with this modest debut https://twitter.com/patrick_kidd/status/1384901406247825410/photo/1
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Were we not expecting Khan to win this on the first round at one point? 41% for Labour in London doesn't seem that special although it will clearly be enough to win.

    The LibDems must be regretting not trying harder with a celebrity candidate.
    The Tories must be regretting not trying harder to find a candidate.
    They could have had an absolutely brilliant candidate. Instead they hounded him out of the party.
    That's what happens when MPs vote against the whip on a matter of confidence.

    Did you object to Major expelling Rupert Allason so vociferously?
    Why should I have done? Rupert Allason was hardly a major figure of the sort the party desperately needs, like Rory Stewart, Phil Hammond, Amber Rudd or David Gauke.
    You should because either you're OK with parties expelling those who don't back their own Government after an issue is deemed a matter of Confidence, or you're not. You seem to want to have it both ways.

    Besides neither were any of them the sort needed, as the eighty seat majority won after they went rather demonstrates.

    Phil Hammond like Grieve represented all that was wrong with the Tory party and the morass it had sunk into under May's tenure. Cleaning out the stables was a much needed action not a mistake.
    Poppycock. I'm 100% consistent. I want the best MPs, and especially the best ministers, we can get, and especially sane centre-right ones. Instead we've got Gavin Williamson, Robert Jenrick, Brandon Lewis, Jacob Rees-Mogg, and Boris Johnson, none of whom should be anywhere near ministerial office.

    Still, it's interesting to see that Johnny Mercer has now joined the very, very long list of people kicking themselves for every having trusted a word Boris said. One can only look on in wonder that it took him so long, or in even more wonder that there are still some for whom the penny hasn't yet dropped.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Were we not expecting Khan to win this on the first round at one point? 41% for Labour in London doesn't seem that special although it will clearly be enough to win.

    The LibDems must be regretting not trying harder with a celebrity candidate.
    The Tories must be regretting not trying harder to find a candidate.
    They could have had an absolutely brilliant candidate. Instead they hounded him out of the party.
    That's what happens when MPs vote against the whip on a matter of confidence.

    Did you object to Major expelling Rupert Allason so vociferously?
    Why should I have done? Rupert Allason was hardly a major figure of the sort the party desperately needs, like Rory Stewart, Phil Hammond, Amber Rudd or David Gauke.
    You should because either you're OK with parties expelling those who don't back their own Government after an issue is deemed a matter of Confidence, or you're not. You seem to want to have it both ways.

    Besides neither were any of them the sort needed, as the eighty seat majority won after they went rather demonstrates.

    Phil Hammond like Grieve represented all that was wrong with the Tory party and the morass it had sunk into under May's tenure. Cleaning out the stables was a much needed action not a mistake.
    Phil Hammond and David Gauke are definitely Tories, as is Theresa May, albeit very Remainy. Dominic Grieve started being quite conservative but journeyed himself out the party.

    I always struggled with Heidi Allen, Sarah Wollaston, Sam Gymiah and even Amber Rudd who seemed to be various shades of Lib Dem in blue clothing to me.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585

    EXCL: Johnny Mercer has called the British government “the most distrustful, awful environment I've ever worked in”, in his first interview since being sacked as Veterans Minister last night. Listen to it on @TimesRadio in a few minutes.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384899952573304832

    Maybe he should resign completely
    It wouldn't surprise me if he resigns his seat in order to fight it again, David Davis style.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200

    I might consider a Tory vote with Mercer at the helm. Seems a decent bloke

    ???
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Were we not expecting Khan to win this on the first round at one point? 41% for Labour in London doesn't seem that special although it will clearly be enough to win.

    The LibDems must be regretting not trying harder with a celebrity candidate.
    The Tories must be regretting not trying harder to find a candidate.
    They could have had an absolutely brilliant candidate. Instead they hounded him out of the party.
    That's what happens when MPs vote against the whip on a matter of confidence.

    Did you object to Major expelling Rupert Allason so vociferously?
    Why should I have done? Rupert Allason was hardly a major figure of the sort the party desperately needs, like Rory Stewart, Phil Hammond, Amber Rudd or David Gauke.
    You should because either you're OK with parties expelling those who don't back their own Government after an issue is deemed a matter of Confidence, or you're not. You seem to want to have it both ways.

    Besides neither were any of them the sort needed, as the eighty seat majority won after they went rather demonstrates.

    Phil Hammond like Grieve represented all that was wrong with the Tory party and the morass it had sunk into under May's tenure. Cleaning out the stables was a much needed action not a mistake.
    Poppycock. I'm 100% consistent. I want the best MPs, and especially the best ministers, we can get, and especially sane centre-right ones. Instead we've got Gavin Williamson, Robert Jenrick, Brandon Lewis, Jacob Rees-Mogg, and Boris Johnson, none of whom should be anywhere near ministerial office.

    Still, it's interesting to see that Johnny Mercer has now joined the very, very long list of people kicking themselves for every having trusted a word Boris said. One can only look on in wonder that it took him so long, or in even more wonder that there are still some for whom the penny hasn't yet dropped.
    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    tlg86 said:

    gealbhan said:

    dixiedean said:

    Been thinking about this Agnelli quote about Brexit.
    The man is an incompetent, greedy buffoon, but he does have the germ of a point.
    Hear me out.
    When Super League was announced, the reaction in Spain and Italy was pretty much the same as here. Most fans furiously opposed. But the reaction was a shrug of frustration. Nowt we can do against global, rapacious capital.
    But Brexit (and the pandemic too) has shown summat CAN be done. A furious minority of the population presented a vote hungry government with a one yard tap in to the empty net of the international oligarchy.
    Brexit showed there are plenty of electoral rewards to be gained from slamming it in the net.
    A government which can leave the EU, close pubs, house all the homeless over the weekend and nationalise transport can do WTF it wants.
    And very quickly.
    Not sure this will always play to the government's advantage, but, am sure they wouldn't have gone in studs up at the rebel 6 with such speed and relish pre-Brexit either.

    Waving tiny skinny fists and thinking you are beating the inevitable does tie brexit and super league together.

    You can’t have status qou, you have to acknowledge change. People opposed super league on basis football isn’t broken, this will break it. They were wrong and foolish to think that. Mistakenly thought greed was driving it, not debt. They said things like they were not bothered by owners financial difficulties without realising the business model of their club is not viable anymore. Brexit was the same we can have what we want without consequence, which is not true, you can’t.
    If the Big 3 and Spurs go under (Man City and Chelsea are immune), that will be good.

    There was an Everton fan on TalkSPORT who was embracing it, and I don’t blame him. Football could do with a big reset.
    Everton fans opposed super league to destroy Liverpool and Man U. Liverpool and Man U fans opposed super league because, well, because they are not very bright.

    The safest bet in town now is the UEFA revamp looks so very similar to this proposal, but with much less income the rest of football would have got from SL.

    Meanwhile the huge threat to the PL, it’s busted business model, has not been addressed, nor unsustainable post covid debt, and football in England remains in big trouble.

    Evidence for this? There has to be interest in the product. If TV deals half because of falling interest, that equates to sizeable devastation, not merely belt tightening. I guess fans of clubs feel their wealthy owners will save them? Or that the club is too big and wealthy to fail? 🤣


    To be honest why suggest Man Utd lifetime supporters are not bright

    I would suggest I have had far more involvement in football , its fans, and the clubs over the last 70 years than anything you have and to be honest I want the owners out and do not really worry about the consequences

    And you are wrong about the Premier League which will continue to be lucrative for the TV companies and UEFAs champions league as is or improved will be also

    But it’s true though. Everton fans oppose SL because they want Man U and Liverpool out of existence. Man U and Liverpool fans oppose SL because they don’t appreciate how the business model is heading to crash, and how much trouble their club is in.

    Interest in the sterile football product of PL and CL is dropping at alarming rate, whose going to pay silly money for both again?

    So as cookie says, just pay the players and agents less then.

    Well, as I explained last night

    1). most fans are primarily concerned with the first team and its management, if you break down all the different components which make up the business you will see that there are an awful lot of them to which little attention is paid and so they are ripe for malaise.

    2). How quickly can you start paying less when you can’t pay the bills any more. Players have contracts, are you going to ask them to rip em up to save the club?

    3). And a simple logic statement. What’s good about Premier League so many follow it allowing it to generate so much money? So many of worlds best players are in it. So what happens when so many of the worlds best players are not in it?


    United has been getting deeper and deeper into debt under the Glazers so absolutely I can understand that they're in trouble.

    The public accounts for Liverpool show that under FSG the club has been getting out of debt. Pre-pandemic five of the past six years the club made a net profit and debts were getting paid off not increased - club debt had been reduced considerably over the past decade.
    Not really. Net debt was down to £200m before Covid which is easily sustainable for a club with their turnover. Because of Covid it has more than doubled to £474m which is getting a little uncomfortable. I suspect that things have not got a lot better since 30th June.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298

    EXCL: Johnny Mercer has called the British government “the most distrustful, awful environment I've ever worked in”, in his first interview since being sacked as Veterans Minister last night. Listen to it on @TimesRadio in a few minutes.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384899952573304832

    And yet he says "I think Boris Johnson is deeply committed to this agenda. I think he wants to deliver it... But the truth is that nothing has been done."

    Incredible how even as he is resigning he fails to understand the nature of the prime minister.

    This line is pretty dark irony: "He [Boris Johnson] should expect his ministers to be as committed to the manifesto as he is"
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,983
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    The UKIP candidate is called Gammons? That’s very funny.

    Yup, see this Twitter thread, he has the touch of His Excellency Professor Sir Paul Nuttall CH, KCVO, VC, and DSC about him.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1374470178881204227?lang=en
    I thought it was VC and bar?
    However, in the real world what's happened to Paul Nuttall? He seems to vanished from public life.
    Can't be - the only VC and bar I know was Flashman...
    Flashman makes four.

    Three people have been awarded the VC and Bar, the bar representing a second award of the VC. They are Noel Chavasse and Arthur Martin-Leake, both doctors in the Royal Army Medical Corps, for rescuing wounded under fire; and New Zealander Charles Upham, an infantryman, for combat actions.[83]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross

    All extraordinary stories to read.
    Not seen his ghost on here for a long time.
    I was talking about this the other day. Flashman and Master & Commander are omissions from my reading experience. I should remedy both, the latter first, I keep being told.
    Caution - it is the first in a twenty novel sequence.
    Gulp...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,983

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    The UKIP candidate is called Gammons? That’s very funny.

    Yup, see this Twitter thread, he has the touch of His Excellency Professor Sir Paul Nuttall CH, KCVO, VC, and DSC about him.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1374470178881204227?lang=en
    I thought it was VC and bar?
    However, in the real world what's happened to Paul Nuttall? He seems to vanished from public life.
    Can't be - the only VC and bar I know was Flashman...
    Flashman makes four.

    Three people have been awarded the VC and Bar, the bar representing a second award of the VC. They are Noel Chavasse and Arthur Martin-Leake, both doctors in the Royal Army Medical Corps, for rescuing wounded under fire; and New Zealander Charles Upham, an infantryman, for combat actions.[83]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross

    All extraordinary stories to read.
    Not seen his ghost on here for a long time.
    I was talking about this the other day. Flashman and Master & Commander are omissions from my reading experience. I should remedy both, the latter first, I keep being told.
    Can definitely recommend the Flashman books, although the first one is not the best. I was recommended to start with Flashman at the charge, but the order doesn't really matter that much.
    You will learn some very interesting history along the way...
    Thank you.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    The UKIP candidate is called Gammons? That’s very funny.

    Yup, see this Twitter thread, he has the touch of His Excellency Professor Sir Paul Nuttall CH, KCVO, VC, and DSC about him.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1374470178881204227?lang=en
    I thought it was VC and bar?
    However, in the real world what's happened to Paul Nuttall? He seems to vanished from public life.
    Can't be - the only VC and bar I know was Flashman...
    Flashman makes four.

    Three people have been awarded the VC and Bar, the bar representing a second award of the VC. They are Noel Chavasse and Arthur Martin-Leake, both doctors in the Royal Army Medical Corps, for rescuing wounded under fire; and New Zealander Charles Upham, an infantryman, for combat actions.[83]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross

    All extraordinary stories to read.
    Not seen his ghost on here for a long time.
    I was talking about this the other day. Flashman and Master & Commander are omissions from my reading experience. I should remedy both, the latter first, I keep being told.
    Caution - it is the first in a twenty novel sequence.
    Gulp...
    Don't worry, they're all the same.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298



    Still, it's interesting to see that Johnny Mercer has now joined the very, very long list of people kicking themselves for every having trusted a word Boris said. One can only look on in wonder that it took him so long, or in even more wonder that there are still some for whom the penny hasn't yet dropped.

    Hilariously - the penny hasn't even dropped for Mercer. He doesn't blame the PM!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    The UKIP candidate is called Gammons? That’s very funny.

    Yup, see this Twitter thread, he has the touch of His Excellency Professor Sir Paul Nuttall CH, KCVO, VC, and DSC about him.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1374470178881204227?lang=en
    I thought it was VC and bar?
    However, in the real world what's happened to Paul Nuttall? He seems to vanished from public life.
    Can't be - the only VC and bar I know was Flashman...
    Flashman makes four.

    Three people have been awarded the VC and Bar, the bar representing a second award of the VC. They are Noel Chavasse and Arthur Martin-Leake, both doctors in the Royal Army Medical Corps, for rescuing wounded under fire; and New Zealander Charles Upham, an infantryman, for combat actions.[83]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross

    All extraordinary stories to read.
    Not seen his ghost on here for a long time.
    I was talking about this the other day. Flashman and Master & Commander are omissions from my reading experience. I should remedy both, the latter first, I keep being told.
    Caution - it is the first in a twenty novel sequence.
    Gulp...
    Don't worry, they're all the same.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,920

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Were we not expecting Khan to win this on the first round at one point? 41% for Labour in London doesn't seem that special although it will clearly be enough to win.

    The LibDems must be regretting not trying harder with a celebrity candidate.
    The Tories must be regretting not trying harder to find a candidate.
    They could have had an absolutely brilliant candidate. Instead they hounded him out of the party.
    That's what happens when MPs vote against the whip on a matter of confidence.

    Did you object to Major expelling Rupert Allason so vociferously?
    If it was a vote of confidence, Boris would have resigned.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,983
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    The UKIP candidate is called Gammons? That’s very funny.

    Yup, see this Twitter thread, he has the touch of His Excellency Professor Sir Paul Nuttall CH, KCVO, VC, and DSC about him.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1374470178881204227?lang=en
    I thought it was VC and bar?
    However, in the real world what's happened to Paul Nuttall? He seems to vanished from public life.
    Can't be - the only VC and bar I know was Flashman...
    Flashman makes four.

    Three people have been awarded the VC and Bar, the bar representing a second award of the VC. They are Noel Chavasse and Arthur Martin-Leake, both doctors in the Royal Army Medical Corps, for rescuing wounded under fire; and New Zealander Charles Upham, an infantryman, for combat actions.[83]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross

    All extraordinary stories to read.
    Not seen his ghost on here for a long time.
    I was talking about this the other day. Flashman and Master & Commander are omissions from my reading experience. I should remedy both, the latter first, I keep being told.
    You should, and in that order. O'Brien is merely very readable, GMF is absolutely a master and a classic - better adventure than Fleming, as funny on occasion as Wodehouse (see, for example, the Madagascar state banquet in Flashman's Lady). And it's all about cavalry officers. His ww2 memoir Quartered Safe Out Here is outstanding too.
    Thanks! I think it is becoming clear my next reading adventure.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    The UKIP candidate is called Gammons? That’s very funny.

    Yup, see this Twitter thread, he has the touch of His Excellency Professor Sir Paul Nuttall CH, KCVO, VC, and DSC about him.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1374470178881204227?lang=en
    I thought it was VC and bar?
    However, in the real world what's happened to Paul Nuttall? He seems to vanished from public life.
    Can't be - the only VC and bar I know was Flashman...
    Flashman makes four.

    Three people have been awarded the VC and Bar, the bar representing a second award of the VC. They are Noel Chavasse and Arthur Martin-Leake, both doctors in the Royal Army Medical Corps, for rescuing wounded under fire; and New Zealander Charles Upham, an infantryman, for combat actions.[83]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross

    All extraordinary stories to read.
    Not seen his ghost on here for a long time.
    I was talking about this the other day. Flashman and Master & Commander are omissions from my reading experience. I should remedy both, the latter first, I keep being told.
    Caution - it is the first in a twenty novel sequence.
    Gulp...
    Don't worry, they're all the same.
    Like your 2 comments in this case.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Were we not expecting Khan to win this on the first round at one point? 41% for Labour in London doesn't seem that special although it will clearly be enough to win.

    The LibDems must be regretting not trying harder with a celebrity candidate.
    The Tories must be regretting not trying harder to find a candidate.
    They could have had an absolutely brilliant candidate. Instead they hounded him out of the party.
    That's what happens when MPs vote against the whip on a matter of confidence.

    Did you object to Major expelling Rupert Allason so vociferously?
    Why should I have done? Rupert Allason was hardly a major figure of the sort the party desperately needs, like Rory Stewart, Phil Hammond, Amber Rudd or David Gauke.
    You should because either you're OK with parties expelling those who don't back their own Government after an issue is deemed a matter of Confidence, or you're not. You seem to want to have it both ways.

    Besides neither were any of them the sort needed, as the eighty seat majority won after they went rather demonstrates.

    Phil Hammond like Grieve represented all that was wrong with the Tory party and the morass it had sunk into under May's tenure. Cleaning out the stables was a much needed action not a mistake.
    Poppycock. I'm 100% consistent. I want the best MPs, and especially the best ministers, we can get, and especially sane centre-right ones. Instead we've got Gavin Williamson, Robert Jenrick, Brandon Lewis, Jacob Rees-Mogg, and Boris Johnson, none of whom should be anywhere near ministerial office.

    Still, it's interesting to see that Johnny Mercer has now joined the very, very long list of people kicking themselves for every having trusted a word Boris said. One can only look on in wonder that it took him so long, or in even more wonder that there are still some for whom the penny hasn't yet dropped.
    That would be the same Gavin Williamson who was May's trusted lieutenant for most of her time in office? Johnson is an excellent PM doing a good job, far superior to his predecessor in every way, so your blind spot on him because you disagree with his position on Brexit is telling. This Cabinet is much better in almost every way than the one that came before it, you claim you want the "best" but support Phil Hammond who absolutely undermined his own government and refused to fund the development of Customs facilities despite it being his government's policy to leave the Customs Union.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Jonathan said:


    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.

    It may not. We need an effective and credible opposition for that to happen.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    The UKIP candidate is called Gammons? That’s very funny.

    Yup, see this Twitter thread, he has the touch of His Excellency Professor Sir Paul Nuttall CH, KCVO, VC, and DSC about him.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1374470178881204227?lang=en
    I thought it was VC and bar?
    However, in the real world what's happened to Paul Nuttall? He seems to vanished from public life.
    Can't be - the only VC and bar I know was Flashman...
    Flashman makes four.

    Three people have been awarded the VC and Bar, the bar representing a second award of the VC. They are Noel Chavasse and Arthur Martin-Leake, both doctors in the Royal Army Medical Corps, for rescuing wounded under fire; and New Zealander Charles Upham, an infantryman, for combat actions.[83]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross

    All extraordinary stories to read.
    Not seen his ghost on here for a long time.
    I was talking about this the other day. Flashman and Master & Commander are omissions from my reading experience. I should remedy both, the latter first, I keep being told.
    Caution - it is the first in a twenty novel sequence.
    Gulp...
    Don't worry, they're all the same.
    Like your 2 comments in this case.
    Technical failure!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,983
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    The UKIP candidate is called Gammons? That’s very funny.

    Yup, see this Twitter thread, he has the touch of His Excellency Professor Sir Paul Nuttall CH, KCVO, VC, and DSC about him.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1374470178881204227?lang=en
    I thought it was VC and bar?
    However, in the real world what's happened to Paul Nuttall? He seems to vanished from public life.
    Can't be - the only VC and bar I know was Flashman...
    Flashman makes four.

    Three people have been awarded the VC and Bar, the bar representing a second award of the VC. They are Noel Chavasse and Arthur Martin-Leake, both doctors in the Royal Army Medical Corps, for rescuing wounded under fire; and New Zealander Charles Upham, an infantryman, for combat actions.[83]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross

    All extraordinary stories to read.
    Not seen his ghost on here for a long time.
    I was talking about this the other day. Flashman and Master & Commander are omissions from my reading experience. I should remedy both, the latter first, I keep being told.
    The Flashman novels are excellent, especially the earlier ones. Only Pratchett is consistently funnier.
    Thanks David
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    edited April 2021

    I might consider a Tory vote with Mercer at the helm. Seems a decent bloke

    I'm impressed by your unswerving commitment to the Labour cause, which you express frequently on here.

    Edit: just read your next comment, re. your 2nd jab. Good news. Clearly injected with a Tory booster.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:


    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.

    It may not. We need an effective and credible opposition for that to happen.
    Yes. Thats brewing nicely.

    We’ll also need more Conservatives to stand up, call out his nonsense and say enough is enough. Too many go along or enable his skullduggery because it gives them a whiff of power.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    For all those excited at the thought of a tall Boris

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1384877566008385537?s=20

    Just skimmed the "rollonfriday" forum on this subject and came across the following comment from a poster called "BREXITBREXIT" (their caps).

    "HE’S THE LEADER OF BREXIT BRITAIN AND A TOWERING COLOSSUS OF A MAN: IN MY ESTIMATION HE IS SIX FOOT TWO ALL MUSCLE."

    Sound familiar?
    Shame he didn't claim that Boris was Six Foot Four.

    We could have started a rumour that he was a man from Brussels.
    Ah ha. Get that now (when put with Nigel's comment). Very good.

    "I said do you speaka my language. He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich."

    That's one of the great couplets. It's right up there with -

    "I was sick and tired of everything. When I called you last night from Glasgow."
    Your invisible now,
    You've got no secrets to conceal.
    That one is a class above. It's Bob Dylan after all.

    "The empty handed painter from your streets. Is drawing crazy patterns on your sheets."

    So many, so many, with his Bobness.
    Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties
    Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,983

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    The UKIP candidate is called Gammons? That’s very funny.

    Yup, see this Twitter thread, he has the touch of His Excellency Professor Sir Paul Nuttall CH, KCVO, VC, and DSC about him.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1374470178881204227?lang=en
    I thought it was VC and bar?
    However, in the real world what's happened to Paul Nuttall? He seems to vanished from public life.
    Can't be - the only VC and bar I know was Flashman...
    Flashman makes four.

    Three people have been awarded the VC and Bar, the bar representing a second award of the VC. They are Noel Chavasse and Arthur Martin-Leake, both doctors in the Royal Army Medical Corps, for rescuing wounded under fire; and New Zealander Charles Upham, an infantryman, for combat actions.[83]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross

    All extraordinary stories to read.
    Not seen his ghost on here for a long time.
    I was talking about this the other day. Flashman and Master & Commander are omissions from my reading experience. I should remedy both, the latter first, I keep being told.
    Caution - it is the first in a twenty novel sequence.
    Gulp...
    Don't worry, they're all the same.
    Like your 2 comments in this case.
    Technical failure!
    Gulp...
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:


    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.

    It may not. We need an effective and credible opposition for that to happen.
    Yes. Thats brewing nicely.

    We’ll also need more Conservatives to stand up, call out his nonsense and say enough is enough. Too many go along or enable his skullduggery because it gives them a whiff of power.
    Or the opposition needs to get it's act together
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Were we not expecting Khan to win this on the first round at one point? 41% for Labour in London doesn't seem that special although it will clearly be enough to win.

    The LibDems must be regretting not trying harder with a celebrity candidate.
    The Tories must be regretting not trying harder to find a candidate.
    They could have had an absolutely brilliant candidate. Instead they hounded him out of the party.
    That's what happens when MPs vote against the whip on a matter of confidence.

    Did you object to Major expelling Rupert Allason so vociferously?
    Allason had the whip withdrawn but wasn't hounded out of the party by Major. He stood (and lost) as a Conservative at the subsequent election.
    Yes he regained the whip after a period of remaining loyal to the party. As did 10 MPs that voted with the party after losing the whip, those that continued to vote against the party didn't unsurprisingly.
    That's not strictly right. The basis for restoring the whip to some but not others wasn't made clear, but it didn't appear to be based on subsequent votes (e.g. a couple of those readmitted voted against Johnson's compressed timetable, while Gauke voted for it). It appeared to be more of a Johnson-led "one of us" judgement combined with a bit of mercy to those retiring anyway. On the Major past, Allason, while he was a standard Tory in many ways, never recanted on Maastricht as far as I'm aware. His readmittance reflected forgiveness (of a sort it was easier to hand out, to be fair, once Maastricht had passed).

    I've mixed feelings on it all. There are, as you say, consequences of disloyalty on big issues. Has the level of brutality shown in 2019 left the Conservative Party a narrower church with less scope for free though, and deprived them of some able people at the expense of gaining less able people? Yes, probably.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    FPT - I've been working all day so I've only just had a chance to catch up on the previous thread.

    I see there was a bit of criticism to my post accusing the UN of hyperbole by saying that the Sewell Report misrepresented or fabricated data and was a hatchet job.

    I'd be interested to see the evidence for this please? Feel free to post a link in response.

    One example cited was that the report's own authors have attached the wilful misinterpretation of what they said - and indeed they have.. but that's to their critics who want to wilfully misrepresent their motives, findings and conclusions:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/race-report-authors-attack-criticism-b1826273.html
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:


    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.

    It may not. We need an effective and credible opposition for that to happen.
    Yes. Thats brewing nicely.

    We’ll also need more Conservatives to stand up, call out his nonsense and say enough is enough. Too many go along or enable his skullduggery because it gives them a whiff of power.
    Or the opposition needs to get it's act together
    One does not preclude the other - they can both get their acts together.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1384906400632033282?s=20

    BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has announced that aid to China will be cut by 95% to less than £1 million.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,983
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:


    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.

    It may not. We need an effective and credible opposition for that to happen.
    Yes. Thats brewing nicely.

    We’ll also need more Conservatives to stand up, call out his nonsense and say enough is enough. Too many go along or enable his skullduggery because it gives them a whiff of power.
    I mean that is what politics is about - power. Although we know many elements of Lab prefer to be noble and untainted out of government, usually it's the governments that get stuff done.

    And, frankly, if the populace swallow Boris' unadulterated garbage, then that is democracy for you. I'm certainly not complaining.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited April 2021

    I might consider a Tory vote with Mercer at the helm. Seems a decent bloke

    I'm impressed by your unswerving commitment to the Labour cause, which you express frequently on here.

    Edit: just read your next comment, re. your 2nd jab. Good news. Clearly injected with a Tory booster.
    I didn’t say in a GE. Tbh I wasn’t being entirely serious
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:


    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.

    It may not. We need an effective and credible opposition for that to happen.
    Yes. Thats brewing nicely.

    We’ll also need more Conservatives to stand up, call out his nonsense and say enough is enough. Too many go along or enable his skullduggery because it gives them a whiff of power.
    Or the opposition needs to get it's act together
    And you need to get your apostrophe use together, sir!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:


    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.

    It may not. We need an effective and credible opposition for that to happen.
    Yes. Thats brewing nicely.

    We’ll also need more Conservatives to stand up, call out his nonsense and say enough is enough. Too many go along or enable his skullduggery because it gives them a whiff of power.
    Or the opposition needs to get it's act together
    Curious. Really curious. You want us to save you from yourself.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:


    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.

    It may not. We need an effective and credible opposition for that to happen.
    Yes. Thats brewing nicely.

    We’ll also need more Conservatives to stand up, call out his nonsense and say enough is enough. Too many go along or enable his skullduggery because it gives them a whiff of power.
    Or the opposition needs to get it's act together
    And you need to get your apostrophe use together, sir!
    Indeed
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821



    That would be the same Gavin Williamson who was May's trusted lieutenant for most of her time in office? Johnson is an excellent PM doing a good job, far superior to his predecessor in every way, so your blind spot on him because you disagree with his position on Brexit is telling. This Cabinet is much better in almost every way than the one that came before it, you claim you want the "best" but support Phil Hammond who absolutely undermined his own government and refused to fund the development of Customs facilities despite it being his government's policy to leave the Customs Union.

    I'm not sure that being Theresa May's trusted lieutenant is much of a recommendation. She wasn't exactly notable for good judgement in choosing her close circle.

    And no, Phil Hammond didn't undermine the government or refuse to fund Customs facilities.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,219
    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Been thinking about this Agnelli quote about Brexit.
    The man is an incompetent, greedy buffoon, but he does have the germ of a point.
    Hear me out.
    When Super League was announced, the reaction in Spain and Italy was pretty much the same as here. Most fans furiously opposed. But the reaction was a shrug of frustration. Nowt we can do against global, rapacious capital.
    But Brexit (and the pandemic too) has shown summat CAN be done. A furious minority of the population presented a vote hungry government with a one yard tap in to the empty net of the international oligarchy.
    Brexit showed there are plenty of electoral rewards to be gained from slamming it in the net.
    A government which can leave the EU, close pubs, house all the homeless over the weekend and nationalise transport can do WTF it wants.
    And very quickly.
    Not sure this will always play to the government's advantage, but, am sure they wouldn't have gone in studs up at the rebel 6 with such speed and relish pre-Brexit either.

    I think there’s a lot in this. The Government, (and the electorate) have seen things done this year at real pace. See also vaccines and testing.

    We don’t know where this will end up, but it must be quite scary for small state Thatcherite types, because politics is going interventionist, and it’s being led that way by a Tory party that more in touch with its view from the 50s and the 20s (depending on the issue) than from the 80s and 90s.

    I certainly think it’s an opportunity for Labour. Drop the “woke” crap and focus on things like “we ended homelessness overnight, let’s do that all the time”, “let’s think big on climate change” and “let’s support the unemployed better the rest of the time too”.
    Labour would rather find itself with 50 MPs than drop the woke stuff. They're true believers, as are the Democrats in the United States.
    Gosh, I hope you are wrong. Powerful at the fringes of both parties, I agree.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Quick question for the PBers on here, especially the ones with a Scottish legal background or knowledge (ahem DavidL....). I am dealing with a rather unscrupulous outfit based in Scotland who provide secretarial services. I signed up in the belief that I would be on a paid trial but then found out that they had continued automatically (I had stated in e-mails to them before I paid their invoice that I specifically did not want an automatic extension because my previous trial with them had not gone that well). I cancelled the service but they claimed they were owed 60 days notice. Moreover, I then found out they backdated the start of the trial from mid January to the week before Christmas on the basis of an e-mail sent by their salesperson which they claim constitutes the start of the agreement and which is ambiguous to say the least. Just to say, I had not signed any contract with them.

    Any suggestions as to the best course of action?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    For all those excited at the thought of a tall Boris

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1384877566008385537?s=20

    Just skimmed the "rollonfriday" forum on this subject and came across the following comment from a poster called "BREXITBREXIT" (their caps).

    "HE’S THE LEADER OF BREXIT BRITAIN AND A TOWERING COLOSSUS OF A MAN: IN MY ESTIMATION HE IS SIX FOOT TWO ALL MUSCLE."

    Sound familiar?
    Shame he didn't claim that Boris was Six Foot Four.

    We could have started a rumour that he was a man from Brussels.
    Ah ha. Get that now (when put with Nigel's comment). Very good.

    "I said do you speaka my language. He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich."

    That's one of the great couplets. It's right up there with -

    "I was sick and tired of everything. When I called you last night from Glasgow."
    Your invisible now,
    You've got no secrets to conceal.
    That one is a class above. It's Bob Dylan after all.

    "The empty handed painter from your streets. Is drawing crazy patterns on your sheets."

    So many, so many, with his Bobness.
    Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties
    Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise
    Given the "girther debate", is Rubin really Boris in the next line?:

    While Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten-foot cell
    An innocent man in a living hell
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:


    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.

    It may not. We need an effective and credible opposition for that to happen.
    Yes. Thats brewing nicely.

    We’ll also need more Conservatives to stand up, call out his nonsense and say enough is enough. Too many go along or enable his skullduggery because it gives them a whiff of power.
    Or the opposition needs to get it's act together
    Curious. Really curious. You want us to save you from yourself.
    Just making the obvious point that to remove Boris and HMG you need a credible opposition
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,152
    edited April 2021

    I might consider a Tory vote with Mercer at the helm. Seems a decent bloke

    I think he's totally unrealistic. He was asking Johnson for something he obviously couldn't give due to the situation in Northern Ireland.

    It does, though, reflect a Johnson problem. He'd clearly made promises to Mercer which Mercer saw as copper-bottomed, but which weren't. Johnson has a tendency to make unconditional and lavish promises to people when convenient to him, and immediately withdraw them the moment it isn't. It makes him a deeply unreliable partner in all sorts of ways.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/kevverage/status/1384908501269590019?s=20

    notice how Alba here talks about “UK citizens living in Scotland” but not *Scottish* citizens (i.e. citizens of an independent Scotland)

    do they seriously think nobody will notice?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited April 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    "YouTube prankster Niko Omilana set to deny Sadiq Khan landslide victory in London mayoral race

    Hilarity on social media as poll suggests Laurence Fox and UKIP’s Peter Gammons have as much support as Count Binface"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/youtube-niko-omilana-sadiq-khan-victory-london-mayor-elections-b930873.html

    Anyone want to bet that Omilana won't get 5% of the vote? I'll offer really really generous odds on this...

    EDIT: OK, I actually won't offer odds. But only because I am over-exposed on Ladbrokes' Gammons v Omilana bet which now has Omilana as favourite!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    MrEd said:

    Quick question for the PBers on here, especially the ones with a Scottish legal background or knowledge (ahem DavidL....). I am dealing with a rather unscrupulous outfit based in Scotland who provide secretarial services. I signed up in the belief that I would be on a paid trial but then found out that they had continued automatically (I had stated in e-mails to them before I paid their invoice that I specifically did not want an automatic extension because my previous trial with them had not gone that well). I cancelled the service but they claimed they were owed 60 days notice. Moreover, I then found out they backdated the start of the trial from mid January to the week before Christmas on the basis of an e-mail sent by their salesperson which they claim constitutes the start of the agreement and which is ambiguous to say the least. Just to say, I had not signed any contract with them.

    Any suggestions as to the best course of action?

    It should be a matter of fact when they provided secretarial services to you and when they didn't. A contract doesn't need to be a formal document, however. If you have had exchanges of correspondence which show an agreement then that will be binding. An express stipulation that there was to be no extension may well be taken as evidence of notice, even if they can incorporate a 60 day notice condition into their contract, which is doubtful.
    If this was a consumer contract from your perspective then they would have to come to your court, which is unlikely. If it was a business contract they could sue in Scotland which would be a pain for you in having to defend it.
    I would tell them to get lost. If they take it further choose a solicitor in either Scotland or England (depending on the jurisdiction question) and give them the relevant paperwork to look over. Sometimes if people are trying it on a firm solicitors letter setting out the position can bring things to an end.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100k population

    image
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:


    This Boris administration cannot end well, all the evidence is there, it’s a question of when and how bad it will be when all the skullduggery catches up with him.

    It may not. We need an effective and credible opposition for that to happen.
    Yes. Thats brewing nicely.

    We’ll also need more Conservatives to stand up, call out his nonsense and say enough is enough. Too many go along or enable his skullduggery because it gives them a whiff of power.
    Or the opposition needs to get it's act together
    Curious. Really curious. You want us to save you from yourself.
    Just making the obvious point that to remove Boris and HMG you need a credible opposition
    Quite right. We’re getting there. Sounds like when we do, we’ll be we’ll liberating you. In the meantime you’ll feel better if you push back on his excess.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    DavidL said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1384906400632033282?s=20

    BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has announced that aid to China will be cut by 95% to less than £1 million.

    I mean, what the hell are we giving any aid to China for? I want to support our aid program but all too often it is its own worst enemy.

    Edit and if we are cutting it by 95% that presumably means we gave them £20m last year? Just incredible.
    It seems strange though. Whether it's £20 million (price of a large London house) or £1 million (price of a small London house), it's absolute peanuts to the Chinese, and they wouldn't notice. I wonder if it's something very specific that the aid is for, probably in our own interest.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    UK cases summary

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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I have just had my second COVID jab!

    Great news.

    Do you mind if I ask when you had your first? Doesn't seem like 12 weeks ago.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    UK hospitals

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,221
    edited April 2021

    dixiedean said:

    Been thinking about this Agnelli quote about Brexit.
    The man is an incompetent, greedy buffoon, but he does have the germ of a point.
    Hear me out.
    When Super League was announced, the reaction in Spain and Italy was pretty much the same as here. Most fans furiously opposed. But the reaction was a shrug of frustration. Nowt we can do against global, rapacious capital.
    But Brexit (and the pandemic too) has shown summat CAN be done. A furious minority of the population presented a vote hungry government with a one yard tap in to the empty net of the international oligarchy.
    Brexit showed there are plenty of electoral rewards to be gained from slamming it in the net.
    A government which can leave the EU, close pubs, house all the homeless over the weekend and nationalise transport can do WTF it wants.
    And very quickly.
    Not sure this will always play to the government's advantage, but, am sure they wouldn't have gone in studs up at the rebel 6 with such speed and relish pre-Brexit either.

    I think there’s a lot in this. The Government, (and the electorate) have seen things done this year at real pace. See also vaccines and testing.

    We don’t know where this will end up, but it must be quite scary for small state Thatcherite types, because politics is going interventionist, and it’s being led that way by a Tory party that more in touch with its view from the 50s and the 20s (depending on the issue) than from the 80s and 90s.

    I certainly think it’s an opportunity for Labour. Drop the “woke” crap and focus on things like “we ended homelessness overnight, let’s do that all the time”, “let’s think big on climate change” and “let’s support the unemployed better the rest of the time too”.
    Not sure there's much space for "big on climate change". Currently the UK Govt 2030 target is -68% and 2035 is -78% on CO2 since 1990.

    EU just upgraded their next target to -55% for 2030.

    They only have Tories failing to meet targets - which is what they are saying, but not very covincingly.

    There may be space for chasing welfare standards towards more Euro levels.

    How does he drop the 'Woke crap' when his backbenchers are full of crap, woke, sometimes thick, foghorns - launching attacks on Black Government Ministers?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    UK deaths

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    UK R

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856

    DavidL said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1384906400632033282?s=20

    BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has announced that aid to China will be cut by 95% to less than £1 million.

    I mean, what the hell are we giving any aid to China for? I want to support our aid program but all too often it is its own worst enemy.

    Edit and if we are cutting it by 95% that presumably means we gave them £20m last year? Just incredible.
    It seems strange though. Whether it's £20 million (price of a large London house) or £1 million (price of a small London house), it's absolute peanuts to the Chinese, and they wouldn't notice. I wonder if it's something very specific that the aid is for, probably in our own interest.
    Might be funding for some of their brightest and best to come to our Universities, I suppose. But we still have better uses for our money. The abolition of DFiD really didn't come too soon.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Off topic, and slightly sensitively, I think Biden and other Democratic politicians like AOC, and in particular Maxine Waters, are stupid to have commented on the Chauvin trial.

    I think Chauvin deserves everything he gets but by Maxine Waters saying that protesters should “get more confrontational” if was acquitted she can credibly be argued to have influenced the jury's decision, and has thus opened up an avenue of appeal for him.

    In extremis, it could see the whole trial overturned.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,749
    DavidL said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1384906400632033282?s=20

    BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has announced that aid to China will be cut by 95% to less than £1 million.

    I mean, what the hell are we giving any aid to China for? I want to support our aid program but all too often it is its own worst enemy.

    Edit and if we are cutting it by 95% that presumably means we gave them £20m last year? Just incredible.
    I immediately did the same calculation! Which means over the lifetime of a Parliament, £100m. Presumably a legacy from the days of dumb naivety to China by George and Dave.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    For all those excited at the thought of a tall Boris

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1384877566008385537?s=20

    Just skimmed the "rollonfriday" forum on this subject and came across the following comment from a poster called "BREXITBREXIT" (their caps).

    "HE’S THE LEADER OF BREXIT BRITAIN AND A TOWERING COLOSSUS OF A MAN: IN MY ESTIMATION HE IS SIX FOOT TWO ALL MUSCLE."

    Sound familiar?
    Is it you?

    Considering that you tried to deny he was a 17.5 stone obese man?

    And why do you want to start this convo again? 🤔
    No, don't worry, I don't, and I know it's not you. The style has nothing in common. Just amused to see another reference to him being "all muscle". You have backup.
    I never said he was all muscle, I said I thought he was 17.5 stone. You think he's never been that heavy, I think you're deluded. Just look at some pictures, in the words of Biden "come on, man!"
    Truly, following the ins and outs of Girtherism gets more complicated by the day. How long before @kinabalu demands to see the long-form girth certificate? :wink:
    It's Philip's fault.

    Hawaii he had to claim Boris Johnson was "mainly muscle" and had "good strong legs" from cycling, I do not know, and suspect I never will.
    Why you had to Trump up a Girther Conspiracy is beyond me.
    For a few belly laughs?
    As he pounds away at the issue.
    Hmm, nice double entendre there too ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    Age related data

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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826



    That would be the same Gavin Williamson who was May's trusted lieutenant for most of her time in office? Johnson is an excellent PM doing a good job, far superior to his predecessor in every way, so your blind spot on him because you disagree with his position on Brexit is telling. This Cabinet is much better in almost every way than the one that came before it, you claim you want the "best" but support Phil Hammond who absolutely undermined his own government and refused to fund the development of Customs facilities despite it being his government's policy to leave the Customs Union.

    I'm not sure that being Theresa May's trusted lieutenant is much of a recommendation. She wasn't exactly notable for good judgement in choosing her close circle.

    And no, Phil Hammond didn't undermine the government or refuse to fund Customs facilities.
    Oh really?

    Considering his government's policy was that no deal was better than a bad deal, he should have after three years notice been fully prepared for a no deal WTO Brexit by 2019.

    Please can you point out where the customs facilities he paid for were by 2019?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    Age related data scaled to 100K population per group

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    Vaccinations

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    England CFR

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,821

    Cookie said:

    AlistairM said:

    Continuing good news on the stats in the UK.


    So far we are not seeing much of an increase from the schools going back and the opening on the 12th. Looking good so far. In other news, after a brief wobble last week, my Uni is now pressing ahead with full graduation in July (for both this year and last years graduates). Will be interesting to see what the take up is like, and whether we are truly with no restrictions by then.
    Positive tests by date of test are showing signs of flatlining again - on past form I'd expect to see this reflected in the headline figure (i.e. by reporting date) within a few days. Probably based on nothing more than increased testing in recent days and hopefully only temporary.
    I think this would be expected as most schools have gone back this week.
    Aha - this graphic confirms that the flattening off of the descent is entirely due to unconfirmed lateral flow tests (in England at least). Positive tests confirmed by PCR still heading enthusiastically downwards:
    https://twitter.com/RP131/status/1384899631994245121/photo/1
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856

    Off topic, and slightly sensitively, I think Biden and other Democratic politicians like AOC, and in particular Maxine Waters, are stupid to have commented on the Chauvin trial.

    I think Chauvin deserves everything he gets but by Maxine Waters saying that protesters should “get more confrontational” if was acquitted she can credibly be argued to have influenced the jury's decision, and has thus opened up an avenue of appeal for him.

    In extremis, it could see the whole trial overturned.

    Nope. What is said after the jury is sequestered is neither here nor there because they won't hear it. And courts generally are pretty robust about this sort of thing, American courts (who have something called freedom of speech, something our Lord Justice Clerk seems somewhat hostile to) in particular.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Well, this is a bit spicier than the TV debates

    A visibly furious Nicola Sturgeon at
    @NUSScotland
    hustings insists an indy Scotland in the EU could buy vaccines as part of a UK deal

    SNP famously criticised UK Gov for refusing to join (ill-fated) EU vaccine procurement programme


    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1384612207053393922?s=20
This discussion has been closed.