We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
WRONG.
Some of the reduction IS due to the vaccines, a non-trivial portion of it in fact.
So actually, it's crap messaging and it's inaccurate.
He said some was. 🤦♂️
You took that out of his remarks. You editing what he said to exclude that doesn't mean he didn't say it.
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
From the quote Anabob gave before:
Yes, of course, the vaccination programme has helped. But the bulk of the work in reducing the disease has been done by the lockdown.
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Boris' intervention was utterly moronic. It made people think "why bother getting vaccinated then?" – just absolutely insane presentation.
It was ill-considered, as he should well know exactly what message will be amplified out of that. Simply going with the message: "We still need to get to a certain level of vaccination before vaccines alone can carry the load."
And following up with "As most of the fall came before the vaccination programme was widespread, it's obvious that the lockdown did that. We need to keep the vaccinations going at pace so we can get to a position where the restrictions are less and less needed, and the immunity from vaccination can shoulder more and more of the load. Like balancing accelerator and clutch while changing gear."
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
Ridiculous.
Boris happily ignores "correct" things when it suits to send a better message on a regular basis.
So his critics like to claim, typically because they don't like what he has to say - which is a different thing entirely.
No border in the Irish Sea, if anyone asks you to fill in a form you should rip it up.
Said to Northern Irish businessmen about sending stuff to GB, yes.
Out of curiosity how much paperwork do businesses in NI need to fill in to send stuff to GB? How accurate or inaccurate were his remarks?
No idea, but ‘exporting’, if one can call it that, in the other direction is clearly a problem given the Uk websites carrying notes that they no longer can supply to NI
Anyway, who do I have to bribe to get my second Pfizer dose? That's the important question for today.
Despite getting an invite to book my second dose, every time I log in it says no appointments are available. Meanwhile my ex-GP texts me every day reminding me to book my second dose. I wish I could. The 12 weeks is almost up.
Nightmare .....
Ty and change your location, you may need to drive to somewhere further away to get it as the provisioning system has probably allocated you a dose in London.
I live in the Lake District. I cannot get a slot here because the GP cannot get me onto the booking system. I cannot change the location. I have spent ages on the phone to both my old practice and my new one and the NHS helpline. It is Kafkaesque.
If you got your first dose from a GP, they are supposed to arrange the second dose themselves, and you are blocked from the national NHs booking system. My mother was in the same position and she had to wait for a GP slot, and was done last week. At 89 I am sure she’s higher up the queue than you.
They have done. They have given me the link to the system which books and which I used last time to book my first dose. It checks my date of birth and then sends me to the site to book.
Then I get a screen saying: No Appointments Available and telling me to check the link every day and that I will be able to book the moment slots become available.
My brother was done yesterday and according to what he heard the next slots will be on 21st and 24th April. So am keeping my fingers crossed. But I it is a 5 hour drive down to London.
Quite why it was my ex-GP who organised my first dose despite me having already moved practice is unclear. It does not give me a lot of confidence in the system.
I would call your GP and tell him that you are just going to turn up tomorrow for your jab. Then just go down there and refuse to leave until they jab you.
My GP doesn't have any jabs. The GP in London doesn't have any jabs either. They are doing it at another location at a larger practice in Belsize Lane. If I haven't been able to book by the 21st I will get onto them.
It''s the feeling that I'm going to slip between the cracks and be forgotten that is worrying me .....
Do what we did. Book it at your old doctor, drive down and get it done.
My old doctor is not doing them. A bigger local clinic in Belsize Lane is. I have got the link. But there are no appointments available at that clinic. I just have to wait.
Today I have also had to deal with BT - a shambles - and Vodafone - well on the way to becoming a shambles.
Plus I ordered some coat hooks which looked nice on the website but which turned out to be quite horrible - the sorts of things you might hang meat carcasses on - not your dressing gown. So I have to pay to send this rubbish back.
At least the UFH in the hall is finally working though why the idiot electrician put the thermostat for it in a bathroom at the other end of the house is a mystery. So another non-idiot electrician has to come back to fix that.
New to the thread, but take it someone has already posted ‘broken, sleazy tories on the slide...’
They are not sliding though.
Just this gut feel in Boris and this liberal Tory government, the vast majority of the British People (English and Welsh as Romans dubbed it) have the prime minister and the Government they have wanted for decades. Next 2 GE sown up I think, especially as Labour don’t have a credible Prime Minister in waiting.
You really are barking mad. You are now predicting a Tory govt with certainty untill 2034. No unforseen events between now and then? Nothing like, I don't know covid or Brexit might turnup.
and now ON TOPIC
Maggie was ideological. She didn’t have to do the poll tax, Boris certainly won’t, he will let what’s popular amongst his huge voter base write his policies for him. We could be looking at a 4th term prime minister.
Labour supporters like optimistic footy fans on eve of a season, they have lost Scotland, Wales and Northern Heartlands, reduced to 200 rump of seats, not trusted to touch the economy, yet they still think they can win a general election this decade from that position?
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
Ridiculous.
Boris happily ignores "correct" things when it suits to send a better message on a regular basis.
So his critics like to claim, typically because they don't like what he has to say - which is a different thing entirely.
No border in the Irish Sea, if anyone asks you to fill in a form you should rip it up.
Said to Northern Irish businessmen about sending stuff to GB, yes.
Out of curiosity how much paperwork do businesses in NI need to fill in to send stuff to GB? How accurate or inaccurate were his remarks?
No idea, but ‘exporting’, if one can call it that, in the other direction is clearly a problem given the Uk websites carrying notes that they no longer can supply to NI
Indeed but that's not what he said. His "put it in the bin" remarks was about NI to GB, not the other way around.
Saying quite rightly that he sets the rules for GB so he won't demand the paperwork that way around. People deliberately misquote that to claim it was said about the other way around.
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
WRONG.
Some of the reduction IS due to the vaccines, a non-trivial portion of it in fact.
So actually, it's crap messaging and it's inaccurate.
He said some was. 🤦♂️
You took that out of his remarks. You editing what he said to exclude that doesn't mean he didn't say it.
I'm editing nothing, that is a verbatim quote and the one he opened with. He qualified it later as an afterthought but as @AndyCooke rightly points out you are playing with fire when it comes to dealing with the media. They are always going to amplify his opening gambit as it gives them a juicy negative.
@tlg86 is right that he could simply have added "alone" at the end of his sentence. But he didn't.
It was crap messaging, pure and simple, and has set the poor tone for the whole week. Very naive from Boris – he must do better.
The amusing thing about von der Leyen's flag facemask that she always wears is that the left part always makes me think it says 10 [as in Downing Street].
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
WRONG.
Some of the reduction IS due to the vaccines, a non-trivial portion of it in fact.
So actually, it's crap messaging and it's inaccurate.
He said some was. 🤦♂️
You took that out of his remarks. You editing what he said to exclude that doesn't mean he didn't say it.
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
From the quote Anabob gave before:
Yes, of course, the vaccination programme has helped. But the bulk of the work in reducing the disease has been done by the lockdown.
Its true. 🤷♂️
You still don't get it do you?
It's about presentation. Andy, TLG and I have all suggested ways he could have presented it better.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has not been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Was his opening gambit. The qualification was added as an afterthought:
First rule of PR: If you are explaining, you are losing.
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
WRONG.
Some of the reduction IS due to the vaccines, a non-trivial portion of it in fact.
So actually, it's crap messaging and it's inaccurate.
He said some was. 🤦♂️
You took that out of his remarks. You editing what he said to exclude that doesn't mean he didn't say it.
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
From the quote Anabob gave before:
Yes, of course, the vaccination programme has helped. But the bulk of the work in reducing the disease has been done by the lockdown.
Its true. 🤷♂️
It's garbage messaging though.
Overall vaccines are going to do most of the heavy lifting in terms of herd immunity with infections around 16 million and vaccinations about 31 million right now. Lockdowns only delay things in terms of SEIR. Once you've got everyone vaxxed, boostered etc up you need to let the virus rip at that point or things will never end !
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
WRONG.
Some of the reduction IS due to the vaccines, a non-trivial portion of it in fact.
So actually, it's crap messaging and it's inaccurate.
He said some was. 🤦♂️
You took that out of his remarks. You editing what he said to exclude that doesn't mean he didn't say it.
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
From the quote Anabob gave before:
Yes, of course, the vaccination programme has helped. But the bulk of the work in reducing the disease has been done by the lockdown.
Its true. 🤷♂️
You still don't get it do you?
It's about presentation. Andy, TLG and I have all suggested ways he could have presented it better.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has not been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Was his opening gambit. The qualification was added as an afterthought:
First rule of PR: If you are explaining, you are losing.
Well we'll see. I think the public are more intelligent than you give them credit for.
You seem to have been reduced to arguing that the message was correct but the spin was not good. I have no intention to argue against that.
Lets see if there's any actual polling or other evidence to show a decline in vaccine take-up after those remarks. If there isn't, its all much ado about nothing.
New to the thread, but take it someone has already posted ‘broken, sleazy tories on the slide...’
They are not sliding though.
Just this gut feel in Boris and this liberal Tory government, the vast majority of the British People (English and Welsh as Romans dubbed it) have the prime minister and the Government they have wanted for decades. Next 2 GE sown up I think, especially as Labour don’t have a credible Prime Minister in waiting.
You really are barking mad. You are now predicting a Tory govt with certainty untill 2034. No unforseen events between now and then? Nothing like, I don't know covid or Brexit might turnup.
and now ON TOPIC
Maggie was ideological. She didn’t have to do the poll tax, Boris certainly won’t, he will let what’s popular amongst his huge voter base write his policies for him. We could be looking at a 4th term prime minister.
Labour supporters like optimistic footy fans on eve of a season, they have lost Scotland, Wales and Northern Heartlands, reduced to 200 rump of seats, not trusted to touch the economy, yet they still think they can win a general election this decade from that position?
The Tories have to lose a lot of support to the Lib Dems for Labour to stand any chance. And, I don't think that is going to happen soon. An independent Scotland would put Labour in an unwinnable position and as nature abhors a vacuum... I think the future of the Lib Dems is brighter than most people here think.
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
WRONG.
Some of the reduction IS due to the vaccines, a non-trivial portion of it in fact.
So actually, it's crap messaging and it's inaccurate.
He said some was. 🤦♂️
You took that out of his remarks. You editing what he said to exclude that doesn't mean he didn't say it.
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
From the quote Anabob gave before:
Yes, of course, the vaccination programme has helped. But the bulk of the work in reducing the disease has been done by the lockdown.
Its true. 🤷♂️
It's garbage messaging though.
Overall vaccines are going to do most of the heavy lifting in terms of herd immunity with infections around 16 million and vaccinations about 31 million right now. Of course lockdowns only delay things in terms of SEIR.
Going to do and have previously done are two completely different things.
Just read through my booklet of London Mayor candidates and noticed that one of them is pledging to scrap the extension of the ULEZ car pollution zone! This will (if they win) save me having to do something I'm dreading; sell my old merc that has been with me since 1994 and never given a moment's trouble. It's rare for an election to be capable of delivering such an immediate and tangible personal benefit to me.
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
WRONG.
Some of the reduction IS due to the vaccines, a non-trivial portion of it in fact.
So actually, it's crap messaging and it's inaccurate.
Machiavelli always said that fear was the way to keep the proles under control.
Just about every political leader from Confucius onwards has said it and they are right. As we are seeing right this minute.
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
My understanding is that lockdown has greatly helped reduced transmission, vaccination has greatly reduced the risk of death (though not necessarily of lasting illness), and it has probably also further reduced the risk of transmission but scientists aren't quite sure about that.
It follows that transmission rates will rise again after lockdown eases; that even if you're vaccinated you should think twice about getting into a crowd but that death rates shouldn't rise much.
Irrespective of what Johnson says (which is of no medical interest), isn't that about the position?
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
WRONG.
Some of the reduction IS due to the vaccines, a non-trivial portion of it in fact.
So actually, it's crap messaging and it's inaccurate.
He said some was. 🤦♂️
You took that out of his remarks. You editing what he said to exclude that doesn't mean he didn't say it.
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
From the quote Anabob gave before:
Yes, of course, the vaccination programme has helped. But the bulk of the work in reducing the disease has been done by the lockdown.
Its true. 🤷♂️
It's garbage messaging though.
Overall vaccines are going to do most of the heavy lifting in terms of herd immunity with infections around 16 million and vaccinations about 31 million right now. Of course lockdowns only delay things in terms of SEIR.
Going to do and have previously done are two completely different things.
We need to influence future behaviour, the past is the past.
Good news everyone. I’ve been offered, and have accepted, a role as a paralegal at a fairly prestigious commercial law firm in the North of England in their engineering and construction team.
The salary is pants but it’s a great opportunity and the team seems lovely — I hope it pays off.
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
WRONG.
Some of the reduction IS due to the vaccines, a non-trivial portion of it in fact.
So actually, it's crap messaging and it's inaccurate.
He said some was. 🤦♂️
You took that out of his remarks. You editing what he said to exclude that doesn't mean he didn't say it.
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
From the quote Anabob gave before:
Yes, of course, the vaccination programme has helped. But the bulk of the work in reducing the disease has been done by the lockdown.
Its true. 🤷♂️
It's garbage messaging though.
Overall vaccines are going to do most of the heavy lifting in terms of herd immunity with infections around 16 million and vaccinations about 31 million right now. Of course lockdowns only delay things in terms of SEIR.
Going to do and have previously done are two completely different things.
We need to influence future behaviour, the past is the past.
Of course!
But to do the right thing in the future, its important to learn from the past.
Thank you very much @AnneJGP and everyone else who have posted congratulations since my last acknowledgment.
I'm very much looking forward to getting stuck in.
Getting going - a start - can be the hardest thing too. My son had a difficult time post grad finding anything with prospects. Did eventually but it was a worrying period. Longer it goes on, harder it gets. So, yes, nice one. All a piece of cake from here.
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
My understanding is that lockdown has greatly helped reduced transmission, vaccination has greatly reduced the risk of death (though not necessarily of lasting illness), and it has probably also further reduced the risk of transmission but scientists aren't quite sure about that.
It follows that transmission rates will rise again after lockdown eases; that even if you're vaccinated you should think twice about getting into a crowd but that death rates shouldn't rise much.
Irrespective of what Johnson says (which is of no medical interest), isn't that about the position?
No.
The evidence is that vaccination reduces transmission, deaths and hospitalisations (the evidence is weaker for the former but very strong for the latter two).
I'm concerned that we keep returning to this drumbeat – "the vaccines work but not that well" – despite the fact that there is now a huge body of evidence that vaccinations massively reduce morbidity.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
“ This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc “
Woooooor I liked that post.
Also of course, after 5 jabs we still get it for the third time, not only rougher than than first three but with added long covid. Unless a PB expert wants to say that’s scientifically unlikely.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
“ This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc “
Woooooor I liked that post.
Also of course, after 5 jabs we still get it for the third time, not only rougher than than first three but with added long covid. Unless a PB expert wants to say that’s scientifically unlikely.
That's scientifically unlikely. The more jabbed up you are the better. Subsequent infections also ought to be less severe in general.
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
He might know about it, but he cocks it up too frequently by failing to engage brain before opening mouth.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has NOT been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Which is 100% correct, yes.
WRONG.
Some of the reduction IS due to the vaccines, a non-trivial portion of it in fact.
So actually, it's crap messaging and it's inaccurate.
Since a lot of Europe is in lockdown still and struggling to turn the tide against the new variants, the vaccine must be having a significant effect, the only other explanation for the divergence between UK and EU being that we had the second wave earlier (true) and began to run out of uninfected people at risk (unlikely to be true).
Our lockdown has been longer and harder than many of those countries.
Boris' messaging may have been one thing or another but there's no doubt that lockdown has done the heavy lifting in reducing incidence of the virus here.
Why here's my post from a few weeks ago:
"I think a note of caution is needed here.
Our case rates/deaths/hospitalisations are all super low which is great. Our vaccine programme is heading to the moon.
Meanwhile we point our fingers and laugh at the EU countries with their spiralling case rates and new lockdowns.
However. We have been locked down for three months. Nothing open. Nothing allowed. Virtually. I don't think this has been the case in most of Europe.
Vaccine efficacy is somewhere over 90%. That means that when we come out of lockdown, plenty of people will get this disease.
The two things that are giving me some degree of comfort are Israel and schools having been back without an explosion of cases."
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
“ This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc “
Woooooor I liked that post.
Also of course, after 5 jabs we still get it for the third time, not only rougher than than first three but with added long covid. Unless a PB expert wants to say that’s scientifically unlikely.
Why did you like it and WTF are you talking about?
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
My understanding is that lockdown has greatly helped reduced transmission, vaccination has greatly reduced the risk of death (though not necessarily of lasting illness), and it has probably also further reduced the risk of transmission but scientists aren't quite sure about that.
It follows that transmission rates will rise again after lockdown eases; that even if you're vaccinated you should think twice about getting into a crowd but that death rates shouldn't rise much.
Irrespective of what Johnson says (which is of no medical interest), isn't that about the position?
No.
The evidence is that vaccination reduces transmission, deaths and hospitalisations (the evidence is weaker for the former but very strong for the latter two).
I'm concerned that we keep returning to this drumbeat – "the vaccines work but not that well" –despite the fact that there is now a huge body of evidence that vaccinations massively reduce morbidity.
Why would you think otherwise?
But that was the point being made - that in the future cases will rise (since transmission blocking is less than perfect) but that deaths won't, so we need to hold our nerve and be calm about it.
You're taking that and running the polar opposite direction.
Just read through my booklet of London Mayor candidates and noticed that one of them is pledging to scrap the extension of the ULEZ car pollution zone! This will (if they win) save me having to do something I'm dreading; sell my old merc that has been with me since 1994 and never given a moment's trouble. It's rare for an election to be capable of delivering such an immediate and tangible personal benefit to me.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
*Doomporn snipped*
I mean a friend of mine posted on social media a video clip of him, his family, and around 30 friends watching the Grand National - indoors, beers in hand, draped over the furniture, not a mask in sight.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
Talking of which, I’m in London for the first time since last summer. And doesn’t the smell of DECAY hang over this city! Masked folk shuffle along the shuttered streets and everywhere is grey, despite a clear blue sky that simply screams ‘you could be somewhere else, with fresh air and scenery....’. You can feel the life slipping away from this place and if you have assets in London SELL NOW while you still can.....
We seem to be back to the lockdown fanatics actively seeking bad news. Not helped by the moronic intervention by Boris earlier in the week – probably the most stupid thing he has said since this shitshow began.
Typical hyperbole from you.
Hysterical, attention-seeking nonsense.
A wise person once said that
FFS, get a brain of your own. Drop the partisan fanboy stuff. Please.
I do have one of my own, thank you very much, and as a result I don't need to outsource my thinking to the Spectator. I'm just not a hysteric. Nothing bad is going to happen because Boris dared to defy Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown.
Anabobazina's personal fatwah against ever acknowledging the efficacy of lockdown
Idiotic post, I'm doing no such thing. I'm criticising Boris' moronic presentation – read my posts.
I do read your posts, and I understand what they actually mean. You're so obsessed with our never entering lockdown ever again that you think just mentioning the subject in public makes it more likely to happen; but it doesn't. We locked down because we had to, and if we ever have to again, we'll do so in the future. I hope it doesn't happen just as much as you do, but them's the facts.
People have quoted Boris' words to you, which say that the public have to learn to accept more cases as we unlock; the posters on here who have the most epidemiological knowledge pointed out at the time that there was nothing wrong with the statement, not least because we're still some distance from full herd immunity; but you still think disaster is coming because the PM acknowledged scientific facts in a balanced way. I'm not trying to be harsh, but surely you can see that your perspective isn't entirely rational.
Wrong.
His presentation of it was terrible – I'm not talking about 'epidemiological knowledge', I am talking about messaging.
You clearly know nothing about PR, is my conclusion.
To be precise, your conclusion is that Boris knows nothing about PR, which is provably untrue.
Boris, do not talk about yourself in the 3rd person...
There is no way Boris is as consistent in his Toryism as BluestBlue.
Just read through my booklet of London Mayor candidates and noticed that one of them is pledging to scrap the extension of the ULEZ car pollution zone! This will (if they win) save me having to do something I'm dreading; sell my old merc that has been with me since 1994 and never given a moment's trouble. It's rare for an election to be capable of delivering such an immediate and tangible personal benefit to me.
Oh come on, even I'm not voting for Bailey.
It was Piers Corbyn who caught my eye. Although Bailey has about the same chance. Zero.
That's a terrible story. Why is this just a Brazilian story? Is it? Are children being affected elsewhere like this?
It's certainly something for those who want to accelerate the end of lockdown to think about.
Yes, something doesn't add up. Three answers:
1 The story is simply wrong
2 The Brazilian variant is so uniquely awful it also kills babies (but we know the Brazilian variant is elsewhere, too, so surely it would be killing babes elsewhere, as well?
3 Babies ARE dying of Covid elsewhere, but no one has recorded it, either because they missed it, or out of a desire not to freak out parents
I fear the answer is 3, I hope it is 1. 2 doesn't make sense
All he needed to say was “alone” at the end of that sentence. Pretty poor that he didn’t.
My understanding is that lockdown has greatly helped reduced transmission, vaccination has greatly reduced the risk of death (though not necessarily of lasting illness), and it has probably also further reduced the risk of transmission but scientists aren't quite sure about that.
It follows that transmission rates will rise again after lockdown eases; that even if you're vaccinated you should think twice about getting into a crowd but that death rates shouldn't rise much.
Irrespective of what Johnson says (which is of no medical interest), isn't that about the position?
No.
The evidence is that vaccination reduces transmission, deaths and hospitalisations (the evidence is weaker for the former but very strong for the latter two).
I'm concerned that we keep returning to this drumbeat – "the vaccines work but not that well" – despite the fact that there is now a huge body of evidence that vaccinations massively reduce morbidity.
Why would you think otherwise?
And also that government policy is currently to start actively encouraging people back out of their homes and to resume normal economic activities, as protecting the Treasury (and by association, all departments it funds) becomes more important than protecting the NHS in the short run. Johnson's statement ran counter to that messaging, so he's arguing against himself (as is everyone (OK, all one of them) defending him).
I don't understand how 1,300 babies can die of Covid in Brazil. And yet I've not read reports of this happening anywhere else in the world.
Either the Brazilian variant is uniquely bad, or there are infant deaths from Covid happening everywhere, but going unnoticed/unreported.
I read that report also. The tragic death they featured was from May last year they said. Before the Brazil variant?
It does seem strange. I just take all the BBC "perfectly healthy 20-yr old dies of Covid" stories as helping the govt to get the message out about the vaccine.
I don't understand how 1,300 babies can die of Covid in Brazil. And yet I've not read reports of this happening anywhere else in the world.
Either the Brazilian variant is uniquely bad, or there are infant deaths from Covid happening everywhere, but going unnoticed/unreported.
From reading the article the example case they had is a very sad story. The Doctors refused to test for Covid as they all believed that children were practically immune and it dragged on and on. The child could have easily been treated if it had been diagnosed correctly earlier on. Heartbreaking. In this country I don't think it would happen as if parents were not sure they would just get a home test kit and test the child themselves. Unfortunately I think in Brazil's case a lot of it is down to a poor healthcare system. Completely tragic.
Just read through my booklet of London Mayor candidates and noticed that one of them is pledging to scrap the extension of the ULEZ car pollution zone! This will (if they win) save me having to do something I'm dreading; sell my old merc that has been with me since 1994 and never given a moment's trouble. It's rare for an election to be capable of delivering such an immediate and tangible personal benefit to me.
Old classic cars are exempt, so you could just keep it and wait...
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
*Doomporn snipped*
I mean a friend of mine posted on social media a video clip of him, his family, and around 30 friends watching the Grand National - indoors, beers in hand, draped over the furniture, not a mask in sight.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
Cases are creeping up but deaths are falling still. The 7-day deaths average in the USA is now the lowest its been in months. Plus they're considerably further behind us in the vaccine rollout.
They could have already broken the link between cases and deaths, as the PM was saying - and they're behind us in vaccine rollout.
Just read through my booklet of London Mayor candidates and noticed that one of them is pledging to scrap the extension of the ULEZ car pollution zone! This will (if they win) save me having to do something I'm dreading; sell my old merc that has been with me since 1994 and never given a moment's trouble. It's rare for an election to be capable of delivering such an immediate and tangible personal benefit to me.
Surely not Laurence Fox?! He's pledged to scrap it. You wouldn't, would you? That would be the worst betrayal since..... I don't know when. Although I've no idea who you are, I'd never speak to you again anyway.
Thank you very much @AnneJGP and everyone else who have posted congratulations since my last acknowledgment.
I'm very much looking forward to getting stuck in.
Getting going - a start - can be the hardest thing too. My son had a difficult time post grad finding anything with prospects. Did eventually but it was a worrying period. Longer it goes on, harder it gets. So, yes, nice one. All a piece of cake from here.
Why would you give such crap advice? Although I appreciate you must have been affected with your son but leave that baggage at home. So to speak.
@Gallowgate - when you are starting out in a new career your every move must be made on the assumption that 20 people are after your job and have interviewed for it that morning.
Just read through my booklet of London Mayor candidates and noticed that one of them is pledging to scrap the extension of the ULEZ car pollution zone! This will (if they win) save me having to do something I'm dreading; sell my old merc that has been with me since 1994 and never given a moment's trouble. It's rare for an election to be capable of delivering such an immediate and tangible personal benefit to me.
Oh come on, even I'm not voting for Bailey.
It was Piers Corbyn who caught my eye. Although Bailey has about the same chance. Zero.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
Talking of which, I’m in London for the first time since last summer. And doesn’t the smell of DECAY hang over this city! Masked folk shuffle along the shuttered streets and everywhere is grey, despite a clear blue sky that simply screams ‘you could be somewhere else, with fresh air and scenery....’. You can feel the life slipping away from this place and if you have assets in London SELL NOW while you still can.....
I think there's more than a whiff of confirmation bias there. There's been celebratory scenes citywide all week as restrictions are eased.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
*Doomporn snipped*
I mean a friend of mine posted on social media a video clip of him, his family, and around 30 friends watching the Grand National - indoors, beers in hand, draped over the furniture, not a mask in sight.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
Cases are creeping up but deaths are falling still. The 7-day deaths average in the USA is now the lowest its been in months. Plus they're considerably further behind us in the vaccine rollout.
They could have already broken the link between cases and deaths, as the PM was saying - and they're behind us in vaccine rollout.
In raw numbers they’re not that far behind - and indeed may soon catch up - but the haphazard demand-driven nature of their deployment means that those vaccinated are differentiated more by wealth than risk and vaccination rates among many poorer more at risk cohorts remain worryingly low, and refusal rates worryingly high.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
Talking of which, I’m in London for the first time since last summer. And doesn’t the smell of DECAY hang over this city! Masked folk shuffle along the shuttered streets and everywhere is grey, despite a clear blue sky that simply screams ‘you could be somewhere else, with fresh air and scenery....’. You can feel the life slipping away from this place and if you have assets in London SELL NOW while you still can.....
Actually, having been a source of despair for much of this plague (esp as regards London, NYC, Paris - the big western cities) I sense the opposite. Plagues are shit if you are in a city, and yet after all this, people will want city life bigtime, I reckon. Restaurants, life, art, pubs, clubs, streets, shops, OTHER PEOPLE. I have friends sheltering in the countryside who are now sobbing with boredom
After a year of walking alone down bloody footpaths, everyone wants to crowd together in fancy bars; there will be a euphoria at the end, and the biggest cities will benefit
Watch where the really big money goes. Last year the London super-prime property market did better than any other city in the world
"London’s ‘super-prime’ luxury property market was world leader in 2020 UK capital is ‘world’s leading wealth destination’ after sales of homes worth more than £7.3m rose 3% last year"
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
Talking of which, I’m in London for the first time since last summer. And doesn’t the smell of DECAY hang over this city! Masked folk shuffle along the shuttered streets and everywhere is grey, despite a clear blue sky that simply screams ‘you could be somewhere else, with fresh air and scenery....’. You can feel the life slipping away from this place and if you have assets in London SELL NOW while you still can.....
Actually, having been a source of despair for much of this plague (esp as regards London, NYC, Paris - the big western cities) I sense the opposite. Plagues are shit if you are in a city, and yet after all this, people will want city life bigtime, I reckon. Restaurants, life, art, pubs, clubs, streets, shops, OTHER PEOPLE. I have friends sheltering in the countryside who are now sobbing with boredom
After a year of walking alone down bloody footpaths, everyone wants to crowd together in fancy bars; there will be a euphoria at the end, and the biggest cities will benefit
Watch where the really big money goes. Last year the London super-prime property market did better than any other city in the world
"London’s ‘super-prime’ luxury property market was world leader in 2020 UK capital is ‘world’s leading wealth destination’ after sales of homes worth more than £7.3m rose 3% last year"
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
*Doomporn snipped*
I mean a friend of mine posted on social media a video clip of him, his family, and around 30 friends watching the Grand National - indoors, beers in hand, draped over the furniture, not a mask in sight.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
Cases are creeping up but deaths are falling still. The 7-day deaths average in the USA is now the lowest its been in months. Plus they're considerably further behind us in the vaccine rollout.
They could have already broken the link between cases and deaths, as the PM was saying - and they're behind us in vaccine rollout.
In raw numbers they’re not that far behind - and indeed may soon catch up - but the haphazard demand-driven nature of their deployment means that those vaccinated are differentiated more by wealth than risk and vaccination rates among many poorer more at risk cohorts remain worryingly low, and refusal rates worryingly high.
That's true. Also in raw numbers of first doses they're quite a way behind us - though indeed they're now starting to catch up as we concentrate on second doses.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
Talking of which, I’m in London for the first time since last summer. And doesn’t the smell of DECAY hang over this city! Masked folk shuffle along the shuttered streets and everywhere is grey, despite a clear blue sky that simply screams ‘you could be somewhere else, with fresh air and scenery....’. You can feel the life slipping away from this place and if you have assets in London SELL NOW while you still can.....
Actually, having been a source of despair for much of this plague (esp as regards London, NYC, Paris - the big western cities) I sense the opposite. Plagues are shit if you are in a city, and yet after all this, people will want city life bigtime, I reckon. Restaurants, life, art, pubs, clubs, streets, shops, OTHER PEOPLE. I have friends sheltering in the countryside who are now sobbing with boredom
After a year of walking alone down bloody footpaths, everyone wants to crowd together in fancy bars; there will be a euphoria at the end, and the biggest cities will benefit
Watch where the really big money goes. Last year the London super-prime property market did better than any other city in the world
"London’s ‘super-prime’ luxury property market was world leader in 2020 UK capital is ‘world’s leading wealth destination’ after sales of homes worth more than £7.3m rose 3% last year"
Fear not, for I just took the first random idea that popped into my head, didn’t think about it too much, hammed it up with some dramatic language to make it sound like the world was about to end, and typed it with a few words in block capitals for added emphasis.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
Talking of which, I’m in London for the first time since last summer. And doesn’t the smell of DECAY hang over this city! Masked folk shuffle along the shuttered streets and everywhere is grey, despite a clear blue sky that simply screams ‘you could be somewhere else, with fresh air and scenery....’. You can feel the life slipping away from this place and if you have assets in London SELL NOW while you still can.....
Actually, having been a source of despair for much of this plague (esp as regards London, NYC, Paris - the big western cities) I sense the opposite. Plagues are shit if you are in a city, and yet after all this, people will want city life bigtime, I reckon. Restaurants, life, art, pubs, clubs, streets, shops, OTHER PEOPLE. I have friends sheltering in the countryside who are now sobbing with boredom
After a year of walking alone down bloody footpaths, everyone wants to crowd together in fancy bars; there will be a euphoria at the end, and the biggest cities will benefit
Watch where the really big money goes. Last year the London super-prime property market did better than any other city in the world
"London’s ‘super-prime’ luxury property market was world leader in 2020 UK capital is ‘world’s leading wealth destination’ after sales of homes worth more than £7.3m rose 3% last year"
Fear not, for I just took the first random idea that popped into my head, didn’t think about it too much, hammed it up with some dramatic language to make it sound like the world was about to end, and typed it with a few words in block capitals for added emphasis.
Thank you very much @AnneJGP and everyone else who have posted congratulations since my last acknowledgment.
I'm very much looking forward to getting stuck in.
Getting going - a start - can be the hardest thing too. My son had a difficult time post grad finding anything with prospects. Did eventually but it was a worrying period. Longer it goes on, harder it gets. So, yes, nice one. All a piece of cake from here.
Why would you give such crap advice? Although I appreciate you must have been affected with your son but leave that baggage at home. So to speak.
@Gallowgate - when you are starting out in a new career your every move must be made on the assumption that 20 people are after your job and have interviewed for it that morning.
I appreciate the advice Topping. I'm under no illusion — I know it wont be plain sailing from here and that I must deliver consistently, however I am nominally in a better position than I was previously. I have been given an opportunity!
In fact I appreciate this fact much more this time around than the first time around.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
*Doomporn snipped*
I mean a friend of mine posted on social media a video clip of him, his family, and around 30 friends watching the Grand National - indoors, beers in hand, draped over the furniture, not a mask in sight.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
Cases are creeping up but deaths are falling still. The 7-day deaths average in the USA is now the lowest its been in months. Plus they're considerably further behind us in the vaccine rollout.
They could have already broken the link between cases and deaths, as the PM was saying - and they're behind us in vaccine rollout.
Indeed. There is growing evidence that the US is breaking the link, thanks to its vaccinations. Which is great news. Why does it matter if people notionally get CV-19 if the vaccination prevents them from becoming ill from it?
That's a terrible story. Why is this just a Brazilian story? Is it? Are children being affected elsewhere like this?
It's certainly something for those who want to accelerate the end of lockdown to think about.
Yes, something doesn't add up. Three answers:
1 The story is simply wrong
2 The Brazilian variant is so uniquely awful it also kills babies (but we know the Brazilian variant is elsewhere, too, so surely it would be killing babes elsewhere, as well?
3 Babies ARE dying of Covid elsewhere, but no one has recorded it, either because they missed it, or out of a desire not to freak out parents
I fear the answer is 3, I hope it is 1. 2 doesn't make sense
There's been a few stories about what they've called Covid placentitis in Ireland. Maybe half a dozen cases. I don't remember if that's fatalities. They've wondered why it hadn't been noticed elsewhere.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
Talking of which, I’m in London for the first time since last summer. And doesn’t the smell of DECAY hang over this city! Masked folk shuffle along the shuttered streets and everywhere is grey, despite a clear blue sky that simply screams ‘you could be somewhere else, with fresh air and scenery....’. You can feel the life slipping away from this place and if you have assets in London SELL NOW while you still can.....
I think there's more than a whiff of confirmation bias there. There's been celebratory scenes citywide all week as restrictions are eased.
People who couldn't cut it in London are permanently bitter about it when London gives them the boot.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
*Doomporn snipped*
I mean a friend of mine posted on social media a video clip of him, his family, and around 30 friends watching the Grand National - indoors, beers in hand, draped over the furniture, not a mask in sight.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
Cases are creeping up but deaths are falling still. The 7-day deaths average in the USA is now the lowest its been in months. Plus they're considerably further behind us in the vaccine rollout.
They could have already broken the link between cases and deaths, as the PM was saying - and they're behind us in vaccine rollout.
Indeed. There is growing evidence that the US is breaking the link, thanks to its vaccinations. Which is great news. Why does it matter if people notionally get CV-19 if the vaccination prevents them from becoming ill from it?
America will probably be fine, but they have one large problem left: vaccine hesitancy
It doesn't matter if you have seven trillion excellent vaccines if ~30% of your population won't take them, especially if these refuseniks are concentrated in certain areas. That means large pools of people - 100m Americans - still vulnerable, and still able to crash health systems
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
*Doomporn snipped*
I mean a friend of mine posted on social media a video clip of him, his family, and around 30 friends watching the Grand National - indoors, beers in hand, draped over the furniture, not a mask in sight.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
Cases are creeping up but deaths are falling still. The 7-day deaths average in the USA is now the lowest its been in months. Plus they're considerably further behind us in the vaccine rollout.
They could have already broken the link between cases and deaths, as the PM was saying - and they're behind us in vaccine rollout.
Indeed. There is growing evidence that the US is breaking the link, thanks to its vaccinations. Which is great news. Why does it matter if people notionally get CV-19 if the vaccination prevents them from becoming ill from it?
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
Talking of which, I’m in London for the first time since last summer. And doesn’t the smell of DECAY hang over this city! Masked folk shuffle along the shuttered streets and everywhere is grey, despite a clear blue sky that simply screams ‘you could be somewhere else, with fresh air and scenery....’. You can feel the life slipping away from this place and if you have assets in London SELL NOW while you still can.....
Actually, having been a source of despair for much of this plague (esp as regards London, NYC, Paris - the big western cities) I sense the opposite. Plagues are shit if you are in a city, and yet after all this, people will want city life bigtime, I reckon. Restaurants, life, art, pubs, clubs, streets, shops, OTHER PEOPLE. I have friends sheltering in the countryside who are now sobbing with boredom
After a year of walking alone down bloody footpaths, everyone wants to crowd together in fancy bars; there will be a euphoria at the end, and the biggest cities will benefit
Watch where the really big money goes. Last year the London super-prime property market did better than any other city in the world
"London’s ‘super-prime’ luxury property market was world leader in 2020 UK capital is ‘world’s leading wealth destination’ after sales of homes worth more than £7.3m rose 3% last year"
Fear not, for I just took the first random idea that popped into my head, didn’t think about it too much, hammed it up with some dramatic language to make it sound like the world was about to end, and typed it with a few words in block capitals for added emphasis.
I am sure I am not the first.
Ah, a pastiche. Not bad!
The giveaway is that you thought it a perfectly regular contribution
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
Talking of which, I’m in London for the first time since last summer. And doesn’t the smell of DECAY hang over this city! Masked folk shuffle along the shuttered streets and everywhere is grey, despite a clear blue sky that simply screams ‘you could be somewhere else, with fresh air and scenery....’. You can feel the life slipping away from this place and if you have assets in London SELL NOW while you still can.....
Actually, having been a source of despair for much of this plague (esp as regards London, NYC, Paris - the big western cities) I sense the opposite. Plagues are shit if you are in a city, and yet after all this, people will want city life bigtime, I reckon. Restaurants, life, art, pubs, clubs, streets, shops, OTHER PEOPLE. I have friends sheltering in the countryside who are now sobbing with boredom
After a year of walking alone down bloody footpaths, everyone wants to crowd together in fancy bars; there will be a euphoria at the end, and the biggest cities will benefit
Watch where the really big money goes. Last year the London super-prime property market did better than any other city in the world
"London’s ‘super-prime’ luxury property market was world leader in 2020 UK capital is ‘world’s leading wealth destination’ after sales of homes worth more than £7.3m rose 3% last year"
Fear not, for I just took the first random idea that popped into my head, didn’t think about it too much, hammed it up with some dramatic language to make it sound like the world was about to end, and typed it with a few words in block capitals for added emphasis.
I am sure I am not the first.
Ah, a pastiche. Not bad!
The giveaway is that you thought it a perfectly regular contribution
I did notice it wasn't your usual tedious and pompous style, and that you had suddenly become vivid, articulate and expressive
I don't understand how 1,300 babies can die of Covid in Brazil. And yet I've not read reports of this happening anywhere else in the world.
Either the Brazilian variant is uniquely bad, or there are infant deaths from Covid happening everywhere, but going unnoticed/unreported.
The news story is unhelpfully vague. However, the situation in Brazil seems to be a real crisis, with lack of space and resources in hospitals. It may be that this is having a severe impact on infant deaths* and many of those dying also happen to have Covid (the article seems to only reference excess respiratory deaths, there might be other things involved in those too).
*a number of possible things: - routine antenatal appointments missed due to staff shortage, fear of attending meaning complications are missed - poor midwife (and possibly consultant in particular) staffing levels due to sickness and some being pulled off to other duties - lack of ICU availability for those infants who do need it
It may also be that newborns are quite vulnerable to Covid. We likely haven't experienced this much here as everyone involved in birth is getting tested and lockdowns have meant only immediate family having close contact with the baby after birth - there's not much risk of exposure near birth. Infants are quite vulnerable, in general (my own daughter spent four nights in hospital aged 9 weeks with one of the relatively innocuous corona viruses, one that in an adult is just a common cold).
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
*Doomporn snipped*
I mean a friend of mine posted on social media a video clip of him, his family, and around 30 friends watching the Grand National - indoors, beers in hand, draped over the furniture, not a mask in sight.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
Cases are creeping up but deaths are falling still. The 7-day deaths average in the USA is now the lowest its been in months. Plus they're considerably further behind us in the vaccine rollout.
They could have already broken the link between cases and deaths, as the PM was saying - and they're behind us in vaccine rollout.
Indeed. There is growing evidence that the US is breaking the link, thanks to its vaccinations. Which is great news. Why does it matter if people notionally get CV-19 if the vaccination prevents them from becoming ill from it?
America will probably be fine, but they have one large problem left: vaccine hesitancy
It doesn't matter if you have seven trillion excellent vaccines if ~30% of your population won't take them, especially if these refuseniks are concentrated in certain areas. That means large pools of people - 100m Americans - still vulnerable, and still able to crash health systems
There’s also a factor that our system includes an orderly queue and significant elements of calling people up, whereas the US system rewards sharp elbows and seems to require people to fight for their jab. I am not sure what happens in the US when they’ve done all the eager folks; it isn’t even clear that they will know who is left, having no central database.
That's a terrible story. Why is this just a Brazilian story? Is it? Are children being affected elsewhere like this?
It's certainly something for those who want to accelerate the end of lockdown to think about.
Yes, something doesn't add up. Three answers:
1 The story is simply wrong
2 The Brazilian variant is so uniquely awful it also kills babies (but we know the Brazilian variant is elsewhere, too, so surely it would be killing babes elsewhere, as well?
3 Babies ARE dying of Covid elsewhere, but no one has recorded it, either because they missed it, or out of a desire not to freak out parents
I fear the answer is 3, I hope it is 1. 2 doesn't make sense
There's been a few stories about what they've called Covid placentitis in Ireland. Maybe half a dozen cases. I don't remember if that's fatalities. They've wondered why it hadn't been noticed elsewhere.
I see Colin the Caterpillar-gate is likely to derail all this talk of viruses, elections and sleaze.
I had to Google this. My key thought on this story is that the tabloids have missed a golden opportunity to run as a headline "Colin the Copycaterpillar".
I have to say I have some sympathy with Anabobazina here. For reasons best known to themselves (maybe as simple as bad news sells newspapers) the media seems to want to pick up a negative thread from pretty much any government utterance on its COVID strategy. So, from a messaging perspective, don't give the media any help in coming up with a negative spin on things.
He should have said:
* The lockdown as done its job in getting infections, hospitalizations and deaths down to negligible levels while we ramped up the vaccine roll-out - well done everyone, great national effort and sacrifice, eternally grateful, etc, etc * The vaccine roll out is a great success (leading the world, global Britain, etc) and is doing its job in protecting those vaccinated ... so we need to continue with that apace so no more lockdowns are necessary * Our strategy is working so well that we are announcing an accelerated easing of restrictions - we're bringing the May 17th deadline forward to April 30th ... happy bank holiday weekend everyone
Unless of course what the nudge team wanted was to throw cold water on the benefits of the vaccine roll out and keep the option of future lockdowns on the table ... in which case, job done.
The issue is that the timelines are in place so you can gauge the impact of the previous set of changes before the next set kick off.
Which is why everything is set on a Monday 4+ weeks apart because you need 3 weeks to see what the impact was.
And yes that does mean that things are going slower than a lot of people want but that is sadly unavoidable
I know that is the stated rationale, I just don't think it stands up to scrutiny because many of the measures are illogical in the first place, and will have no impact either way, and most people are violating the rules now anyway in their own small ways.
What I'd like to see is as much effort being put in to evaluating which restrictions are irrelevant and/or ineffective so they can be lifted immediately. Any additional easing, however incremental in the coming weeks, would create a much more positive vibe and signal that we are on the path to recovery.
The government messaging is to continually pour cold water on any positivity and you have to question why that is. The lockdown has done it's job. The vaccine program has done its job in terms of protecting the vulnerable. There really is no reason to delay the easing of restrictions any more. It may be "only a few more weeks" but each day this goes on with the accompanying doom-mongering makes the hole we will have to climb out of all the deeper.
All I'm saying is enough already ... let's pivot to recovery mode.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
*Doomporn snipped*
I mean a friend of mine posted on social media a video clip of him, his family, and around 30 friends watching the Grand National - indoors, beers in hand, draped over the furniture, not a mask in sight.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
Cases are creeping up but deaths are falling still. The 7-day deaths average in the USA is now the lowest its been in months. Plus they're considerably further behind us in the vaccine rollout.
They could have already broken the link between cases and deaths, as the PM was saying - and they're behind us in vaccine rollout.
Indeed. There is growing evidence that the US is breaking the link, thanks to its vaccinations. Which is great news. Why does it matter if people notionally get CV-19 if the vaccination prevents them from becoming ill from it?
America will probably be fine, but they have one large problem left: vaccine hesitancy
It doesn't matter if you have seven trillion excellent vaccines if ~30% of your population won't take them, especially if these refuseniks are concentrated in certain areas. That means large pools of people - 100m Americans - still vulnerable, and still able to crash health systems
There’s also a factor that our system includes an orderly queue and significant elements of calling people up, whereas the US system rewards sharp elbows and seems to require people to fight for their jab. I am not sure what happens in the US when they’ve done all the eager folks; it isn’t even clear that they will know who is left, having no central database.
I have been wondering how many Americans have managed to get their hands on more than two doses by now, "just to be on the safe side". And also whether that's a good idea or not.
This bloody mask is so irritating; I’ve been following the rules, but until now that’s meant putting it on for short periods and making some effort to minimise such situations. Today I’ve had it on continuous since catching the 4am ferry and am already well fed up with it. Sympathy to anyone who has to wear one of these every day.
I don't understand how 1,300 babies can die of Covid in Brazil. And yet I've not read reports of this happening anywhere else in the world.
Either the Brazilian variant is uniquely bad, or there are infant deaths from Covid happening everywhere, but going unnoticed/unreported.
The news story is unhelpfully vague. However, the situation in Brazil seems to be a real crisis, with lack of space and resources in hospitals. It may be that this is having a severe impact on infant deaths* and many of those dying also happen to have Covid (the article seems to only reference excess respiratory deaths, there might be other things involved in those too).
*a number of possible things: - routine antenatal appointments missed due to staff shortage, fear of attending meaning complications are missed - poor midwife (and possibly consultant in particular) staffing levels due to sickness and some being pulled off to other duties - lack of ICU availability for those infants who do need it
It may also be that newborns are quite vulnerable to Covid. We likely haven't experienced this much here as everyone involved in birth is getting tested and lockdowns have meant only immediate family having close contact with the baby after birth - there's not much risk of exposure near birth. Infants are quite vulnerable, in general (my own daughter spent four nights in hospital aged 9 weeks with one of the relatively innocuous corona viruses, one that in an adult is just a common cold).
I agree the story is vague but other than the failure to test earlier it does not sound as if the child did not receive fairly comprehensive and very extensive medical care. This, of course, makes the outcome even more alarming as well as deeply sad.
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
Talking of which, I’m in London for the first time since last summer. And doesn’t the smell of DECAY hang over this city! Masked folk shuffle along the shuttered streets and everywhere is grey, despite a clear blue sky that simply screams ‘you could be somewhere else, with fresh air and scenery....’. You can feel the life slipping away from this place and if you have assets in London SELL NOW while you still can.....
Actually, having been a source of despair for much of this plague (esp as regards London, NYC, Paris - the big western cities) I sense the opposite. Plagues are shit if you are in a city, and yet after all this, people will want city life bigtime, I reckon. Restaurants, life, art, pubs, clubs, streets, shops, OTHER PEOPLE. I have friends sheltering in the countryside who are now sobbing with boredom
After a year of walking alone down bloody footpaths, everyone wants to crowd together in fancy bars; there will be a euphoria at the end, and the biggest cities will benefit
Watch where the really big money goes. Last year the London super-prime property market did better than any other city in the world
"London’s ‘super-prime’ luxury property market was world leader in 2020 UK capital is ‘world’s leading wealth destination’ after sales of homes worth more than £7.3m rose 3% last year"
Fear not, for I just took the first random idea that popped into my head, didn’t think about it too much, hammed it up with some dramatic language to make it sound like the world was about to end, and typed it with a few words in block capitals for added emphasis.
I am sure I am not the first.
Ah, a pastiche. Not bad!
The giveaway is that you thought it a perfectly regular contribution
I did notice it wasn't your usual tedious and pompous style, and that you had suddenly become vivid, articulate and expressive
It must be all this pollution affecting the brain.
I don't understand how 1,300 babies can die of Covid in Brazil. And yet I've not read reports of this happening anywhere else in the world.
Either the Brazilian variant is uniquely bad, or there are infant deaths from Covid happening everywhere, but going unnoticed/unreported.
The news story is unhelpfully vague. However, the situation in Brazil seems to be a real crisis, with lack of space and resources in hospitals. It may be that this is having a severe impact on infant deaths* and many of those dying also happen to have Covid (the article seems to only reference excess respiratory deaths, there might be other things involved in those too).
*a number of possible things: - routine antenatal appointments missed due to staff shortage, fear of attending meaning complications are missed - poor midwife (and possibly consultant in particular) staffing levels due to sickness and some being pulled off to other duties - lack of ICU availability for those infants who do need it
It may also be that newborns are quite vulnerable to Covid. We likely haven't experienced this much here as everyone involved in birth is getting tested and lockdowns have meant only immediate family having close contact with the baby after birth - there's not much risk of exposure near birth. Infants are quite vulnerable, in general (my own daughter spent four nights in hospital aged 9 weeks with one of the relatively innocuous corona viruses, one that in an adult is just a common cold).
Indeed. My eldest got hospitalised for a similar period of time aged just 2 weeks, after the 2-week weigh-in showed she had lost weight from birth (though we are pretty certain the student midwife recorded the birth weight wrong). After the first night an infection revealed itself, would have been entirely innocuous for a child or an adult but was a scary few days in hospital with a newborn.
I don't understand how 1,300 babies can die of Covid in Brazil. And yet I've not read reports of this happening anywhere else in the world.
Either the Brazilian variant is uniquely bad, or there are infant deaths from Covid happening everywhere, but going unnoticed/unreported.
Or they died for other reasons but tested positive for COVID. Brazil doesn't have the best record on infant mortality.
Let's hope you're right. Could well be. All the alternatives are intolerable
Or option 4 - there have simply been so many Covid cases in Brazil, way more than recorded by testing, that an infinitesimally small fraction of cases leading to mortality in children (coupled with comorbidities like malnutrition and poor healthcare referenced in the BBC article) means a big absolute number.
Thank you very much @AnneJGP and everyone else who have posted congratulations since my last acknowledgment.
I'm very much looking forward to getting stuck in.
Getting going - a start - can be the hardest thing too. My son had a difficult time post grad finding anything with prospects. Did eventually but it was a worrying period. Longer it goes on, harder it gets. So, yes, nice one. All a piece of cake from here.
Why would you give such crap advice? Although I appreciate you must have been affected with your son but leave that baggage at home. So to speak.
@Gallowgate - when you are starting out in a new career your every move must be made on the assumption that 20 people are after your job and have interviewed for it that morning.
Nope. Getting "in" can be the biggest hurdle of all. Perfectly serious and sincere comment. Phrasing of the last bit was obviously (I'd hope) light hearted.
Stop trying to be "wise" and bossy. You not in the army now.
I see Colin the Caterpillar-gate is likely to derail all this talk of viruses, elections and sleaze.
I had to Google this. My key thought on this story is that the tabloids have missed a golden opportunity to run as a headline "Colin the Copycaterpillar".
If this action succeeds can Curly the caterpillar from Tesco be far behind?
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
*Doomporn snipped*
I mean a friend of mine posted on social media a video clip of him, his family, and around 30 friends watching the Grand National - indoors, beers in hand, draped over the furniture, not a mask in sight.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
Cases are creeping up but deaths are falling still. The 7-day deaths average in the USA is now the lowest its been in months. Plus they're considerably further behind us in the vaccine rollout.
They could have already broken the link between cases and deaths, as the PM was saying - and they're behind us in vaccine rollout.
Indeed. There is growing evidence that the US is breaking the link, thanks to its vaccinations. Which is great news. Why does it matter if people notionally get CV-19 if the vaccination prevents them from becoming ill from it?
America will probably be fine, but they have one large problem left: vaccine hesitancy
It doesn't matter if you have seven trillion excellent vaccines if ~30% of your population won't take them, especially if these refuseniks are concentrated in certain areas. That means large pools of people - 100m Americans - still vulnerable, and still able to crash health systems
There’s also a factor that our system includes an orderly queue and significant elements of calling people up, whereas the US system rewards sharp elbows and seems to require people to fight for their jab. I am not sure what happens in the US when they’ve done all the eager folks; it isn’t even clear that they will know who is left, having no central database.
I have been wondering how many Americans have managed to get their hands on more than two doses by now, "just to be on the safe side". And also whether that's a good idea or not.
Talking of America, Nick Bryant’s new book is getting some very good reviews; apparently deeper and more analytical than the usual soft pap that BBC America correspondents tend to write. Anyone read it?
Mr. B2, I loathe having to go shopping wearing a mask. Steams right up. Glad I've (unusually, for me) got a second pair I can put a little liquid hand soap on to reduce that to almost nothing.
I see Colin the Caterpillar-gate is likely to derail all this talk of viruses, elections and sleaze.
I had to Google this. My key thought on this story is that the tabloids have missed a golden opportunity to run as a headline "Colin the Copycaterpillar".
If this action succeeds can Curly the caterpillar from Tesco be far behind?
I don't understand how 1,300 babies can die of Covid in Brazil. And yet I've not read reports of this happening anywhere else in the world.
Either the Brazilian variant is uniquely bad, or there are infant deaths from Covid happening everywhere, but going unnoticed/unreported.
Or they died for other reasons but tested positive for COVID. Brazil doesn't have the best record on infant mortality.
Let's hope you're right. Could well be. All the alternatives are intolerable
Or option 4 - there have simply been so many Covid cases in Brazil, way more than recorded by testing, that an infinitesimally small fraction of cases leading to mortality in children (coupled with comorbidities like malnutrition and poor healthcare referenced in the BBC article) means a big absolute number.
Brazil has recorded 360,000 Covid19 deaths. And now 1,300 deaths in babies.
It's a very small fraction: 0.3%, but it's not "infinitesimally small"
Britain has had 127,000 deaths, the equivalent here would be 400 dead babies
In America it would be 2,000 dead babies
It's horrible to speak in these crude terms, but those deaths would DEFINITELY be noticed, as being so cruel
Just read through my booklet of London Mayor candidates and noticed that one of them is pledging to scrap the extension of the ULEZ car pollution zone! This will (if they win) save me having to do something I'm dreading; sell my old merc that has been with me since 1994 and never given a moment's trouble. It's rare for an election to be capable of delivering such an immediate and tangible personal benefit to me.
Surely not Laurence Fox?! He's pledged to scrap it. You wouldn't, would you? That would be the worst betrayal since..... I don't know when. Although I've no idea who you are, I'd never speak to you again anyway.
- I wouldn't vote "Lozza" if it came with a brand new merc let alone saving my old one. Ghastly ghastly character.
Not the most exciting election, though, I have to say. All manifestos except Khan's are totally irrelevant.
Thank you very much @AnneJGP and everyone else who have posted congratulations since my last acknowledgment.
I'm very much looking forward to getting stuck in.
Getting going - a start - can be the hardest thing too. My son had a difficult time post grad finding anything with prospects. Did eventually but it was a worrying period. Longer it goes on, harder it gets. So, yes, nice one. All a piece of cake from here.
Why would you give such crap advice? Although I appreciate you must have been affected with your son but leave that baggage at home. So to speak.
@Gallowgate - when you are starting out in a new career your every move must be made on the assumption that 20 people are after your job and have interviewed for it that morning.
Nope. Getting "in" can be the biggest hurdle of all. Perfectly serious and sincere comment. Phrasing of the last bit was obviously (I'd hope) light hearted.
Stop trying to be "wise" and bossy. You not in the army now.
It's difficult not to appear wise when discussing stuff with you.
I don't understand how 1,300 babies can die of Covid in Brazil. And yet I've not read reports of this happening anywhere else in the world.
Either the Brazilian variant is uniquely bad, or there are infant deaths from Covid happening everywhere, but going unnoticed/unreported.
Or they died for other reasons but tested positive for COVID. Brazil doesn't have the best record on infant mortality.
Let's hope you're right. Could well be. All the alternatives are intolerable
Or option 4 - there have simply been so many Covid cases in Brazil, way more than recorded by testing, that an infinitesimally small fraction of cases leading to mortality in children (coupled with comorbidities like malnutrition and poor healthcare referenced in the BBC article) means a big absolute number.
Brazil has recorded 360,000 Covid19 deaths. And now 1,300 deaths in babies.
It's a very small fraction: 0.3%, but it's not "infinitesimally small"
Britain has had 127,000 deaths, the equivalent here would be 400 dead babies
In America it would be 2,000 dead babies
It's horrible to speak in these crude terms, but those deaths would DEFINITELY be noticed, as being so cruel
Though its worth noting that Brazil has a relatively high infant mortality rate at the best of times.
In 2019 their infant mortality rate was 12.4 per 1000 live births.
Comments
A melancholy milestone
Yes, of course, the vaccination programme has helped. But the bulk of the work in reducing the disease has been done by the lockdown.
Its true. 🤷♂️
Today I have also had to deal with BT - a shambles - and Vodafone - well on the way to becoming a shambles.
Plus I ordered some coat hooks which looked nice on the website but which turned out to be quite horrible - the sorts of things you might hang meat carcasses on - not your dressing gown. So I have to pay to send this rubbish back.
At least the UFH in the hall is finally working though why the idiot electrician put the thermostat for it in a bathroom at the other end of the house is a mystery. So another non-idiot electrician has to come back to fix that.
I hope the afternoon will turn out better .......
Maggie was ideological. She didn’t have to do the poll tax, Boris certainly won’t, he will let what’s popular amongst his huge voter base write his policies for him. We could be looking at a 4th term prime minister.
Labour supporters like optimistic footy fans on eve of a season, they have lost Scotland, Wales and Northern Heartlands, reduced to 200 rump of seats, not trusted to touch the economy, yet they still think they can win a general election this decade from that position?
Saying quite rightly that he sets the rules for GB so he won't demand the paperwork that way around. People deliberately misquote that to claim it was said about the other way around.
@tlg86 is right that he could simply have added "alone" at the end of his sentence. But he didn't.
It was crap messaging, pure and simple, and has set the poor tone for the whole week. Very naive from Boris – he must do better.
Plus 405 deaths: not great - but they peaked around 1,000 daily in January
It seems a long time since Germany was a model to follow, in the spring of 2020
It's about presentation. Andy, TLG and I have all suggested ways he could have presented it better.
"But it is very, very important for everybody to understand that the reduction in these numbers - in hospitalisations and in deaths and infections - has not been achieved by the vaccination programme."
Was his opening gambit. The qualification was added as an afterthought:
First rule of PR: If you are explaining, you are losing.
Overall vaccines are going to do most of the heavy lifting in terms of herd immunity with infections around 16 million and vaccinations about 31 million right now.
Lockdowns only delay things in terms of SEIR.
Once you've got everyone vaxxed, boostered etc up you need to let the virus rip at that point or things will never end !
You seem to have been reduced to arguing that the message was correct but the spin was not good. I have no intention to argue against that.
Lets see if there's any actual polling or other evidence to show a decline in vaccine take-up after those remarks. If there isn't, its all much ado about nothing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-56696907
It follows that transmission rates will rise again after lockdown eases; that even if you're vaccinated you should think twice about getting into a crowd but that death rates shouldn't rise much.
Irrespective of what Johnson says (which is of no medical interest), isn't that about the position?
Which I heartily do now!
USA, edging up again, nearly 80,000 cases, nearly 1,000 deaths
France: will go over 100,000 dead today, very probably
Poland, still bad: 803 deaths
Argentina, probably got the Brazilian bastard, ramping up to its worse wave yet: 25k cases (worst yet), 368 deaths (one of the worst)
india, horrific: 200,000 cases (worst yet)
Turkey, yikes: 62,000 cases (worst yet)
Ukraine, nearing a peak: 467 deaths (2nd worst ever)
Colombia, deep into a 3rd wave: 337 deaths
This bug is still Very Much With Us
This announcement was brought to you by DoomPorn Inc
But to do the right thing in the future, its important to learn from the past.
Jeez. This plague still has the capacity to shock and horrify
Hearty congratulations Gallowgate, well deserved.
The evidence is that vaccination reduces transmission, deaths and hospitalisations (the evidence is weaker for the former but very strong for the latter two).
I'm concerned that we keep returning to this drumbeat – "the vaccines work but not that well" – despite the fact that there is now a huge body of evidence that vaccinations massively reduce morbidity.
Why would you think otherwise?
Woooooor I liked that post.
Also of course, after 5 jabs we still get it for the third time, not only rougher than than first three but with added long covid. Unless a PB expert wants to say that’s scientifically unlikely.
Either the Brazilian variant is uniquely bad, or there are infant deaths from Covid happening everywhere, but going unnoticed/unreported.
Boris' messaging may have been one thing or another but there's no doubt that lockdown has done the heavy lifting in reducing incidence of the virus here.
Why here's my post from a few weeks ago:
"I think a note of caution is needed here.
Our case rates/deaths/hospitalisations are all super low which is great. Our vaccine programme is heading to the moon.
Meanwhile we point our fingers and laugh at the EU countries with their spiralling case rates and new lockdowns.
However. We have been locked down for three months. Nothing open. Nothing allowed. Virtually. I don't think this has been the case in most of Europe.
Vaccine efficacy is somewhere over 90%. That means that when we come out of lockdown, plenty of people will get this disease.
The two things that are giving me some degree of comfort are Israel and schools having been back without an explosion of cases."
You're taking that and running the polar opposite direction.
It's certainly something for those who want to accelerate the end of lockdown to think about.
He is in New England. OK so the rates are creeping up as you say. It looked a fantastic picture that said.
1 The story is simply wrong
2 The Brazilian variant is so uniquely awful it also kills babies (but we know the Brazilian variant is elsewhere, too, so surely it would be killing babes elsewhere, as well?
3 Babies ARE dying of Covid elsewhere, but no one has recorded it, either because they missed it, or out of a desire not to freak out parents
I fear the answer is 3, I hope it is 1. 2 doesn't make sense
It does seem strange. I just take all the BBC "perfectly healthy 20-yr old dies of Covid" stories as helping the govt to get the message out about the vaccine.
Old classic cars are exempt, so you could just keep it and wait...
They could have already broken the link between cases and deaths, as the PM was saying - and they're behind us in vaccine rollout.
@Gallowgate - when you are starting out in a new career your every move must be made on the assumption that 20 people are after your job and have interviewed for it that morning.
After a year of walking alone down bloody footpaths, everyone wants to crowd together in fancy bars; there will be a euphoria at the end, and the biggest cities will benefit
Watch where the really big money goes. Last year the London super-prime property market did better than any other city in the world
"London’s ‘super-prime’ luxury property market was world leader in 2020
UK capital is ‘world’s leading wealth destination’ after sales of homes worth more than £7.3m rose 3% last year"
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/12/londons-super-prime-luxury-property-market-was-world-leader-in-2020
I am sure I am not the first.
In fact I appreciate this fact much more this time around than the first time around.
Indeed. There is growing evidence that the US is breaking the link, thanks to its vaccinations. Which is great news. Why does it matter if people notionally get CV-19 if the vaccination prevents them from becoming ill from it?
It doesn't matter if you have seven trillion excellent vaccines if ~30% of your population won't take them, especially if these refuseniks are concentrated in certain areas. That means large pools of people - 100m Americans - still vulnerable, and still able to crash health systems
That was the point! 💉👍
*a number of possible things:
- routine antenatal appointments missed due to staff shortage, fear of attending meaning complications are missed
- poor midwife (and possibly consultant in particular) staffing levels due to sickness and some being pulled off to other duties
- lack of ICU availability for those infants who do need it
It may also be that newborns are quite vulnerable to Covid. We likely haven't experienced this much here as everyone involved in birth is getting tested and lockdowns have meant only immediate family having close contact with the baby after birth - there's not much risk of exposure near birth. Infants are quite vulnerable, in general (my own daughter spent four nights in hospital aged 9 weeks with one of the relatively innocuous corona viruses, one that in an adult is just a common cold).
That's one story about it.
Cuthbert really isn't that nice compared to the other options...
This is a pretty appalling story.
What I'd like to see is as much effort being put in to evaluating which restrictions are irrelevant and/or ineffective so they can be lifted immediately. Any additional easing, however incremental in the coming weeks, would create a much more positive vibe and signal that we are on the path to recovery.
The government messaging is to continually pour cold water on any positivity and you have to question why that is. The lockdown has done it's job. The vaccine program has done its job in terms of protecting the vulnerable. There really is no reason to delay the easing of restrictions any more. It may be "only a few more weeks" but each day this goes on with the accompanying doom-mongering makes the hole we will have to climb out of all the deeper.
All I'm saying is enough already ... let's pivot to recovery mode.
Stop trying to be "wise" and bossy. You not in the army now.
Seems really weird to only target the one.
It's a very small fraction: 0.3%, but it's not "infinitesimally small"
Britain has had 127,000 deaths, the equivalent here would be 400 dead babies
In America it would be 2,000 dead babies
It's horrible to speak in these crude terms, but those deaths would DEFINITELY be noticed, as being so cruel
Not the most exciting election, though, I have to say. All manifestos except Khan's are totally irrelevant.
I'll try though, promise.
In 2019 their infant mortality rate was 12.4 per 1000 live births.