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  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2014
    Daily Politics Quiz of the Day

    Picture of Lino Carbosiero

    This man has just won an MBE, what service does he provide for the Prime Minister?

    (a) Chef
    (b) Security Guard
    (c) Hairdresser
    (d) Ski instructor

    OGH vindicated for this thread in my eyes
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Articles like this piss me off:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25635819

    Did every other f*cker in the country manage to get mis-sold PPI except me.

    I feel like I've missed out.

    No I am another one. Personally I thought they were a tax on stupidity. It is a bit galling when stupidity is rewarded.


    I remember in the mid- 2000s every conversation with my bank resulted in them trying to sell me PPI. Listening to the terms and conditions however, I could see that I wasn't eligible and so I declined.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,248
    edited January 2014
    AveryLP said:

    BenM said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Carlota - it looks like Ed is bang to rights, but do you have a direct quote of what he said yesterday just to make sure?

    http://order-order.com/2014/01/06/ed-balls-denies-he-predicted-a-double-dip-recession-except-of-course-he-did/

    If Ed is still in position by the GE that may feature......
    Carlotta

    We need a prediction of a triple dip recession.

    Balls is safe on the double dip as it was reinstated in a recent ONS revision to post recession GDP numbers.

    I pointed that out to Paul Staines in a tweet last night.

    Result? Silence.
    I wouldn't bank on the double dip sticking, Ben.

    The ONS are revising like a Somerville chemist before Finals. And many of the revisions result from methodology changes, reclassifications and compliance with new accounting standards so anticipate major fluctuations.

    The double dip may come and go but you can take comfort that the twin 'eded' dipsticks will stay at least until summer 2015.
    Avery , Can you not just say "fiddling the books".They will change methods till they get the number they want, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck , why do they just not accept that it is a duck. We had a double dip recession and everyone , even Tories , know it.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,039
    I'd change the honours system. The basic idea is good, but too often those who already have rewards for their work (money, wealth, bulletproof pension) get gongs too. Volunteers, charity workers, people who are exceptionally brave (the women who confronted Lee Rigby's killers, for example), the military and those who make exceptional contributions, particularly in fields like science, should get them.

    Fewer celebrities, politicians and civil servants should get them.

    And more morris dancers should.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I love this. :)

    @DavidCoburnUKip it's acceptable, although his personal trainer is gutted pic.twitter.com/vp7j946wgj

    — Theresa May (@TheresaMay_MP) January 7, 2014
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,642
    The subject of this thread is now the answer to the "Daily Politics" quiz of the day.

    An apparently trivial thing with some traction. Good call, Mike.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,563
    JonathanD said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Articles like this piss me off:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25635819

    Did every other f*cker in the country manage to get mis-sold PPI except me.

    I feel like I've missed out.

    No I am another one. Personally I thought they were a tax on stupidity. It is a bit galling when stupidity is rewarded.


    I remember in the mid- 2000s every conversation with my bank resulted in them trying to sell me PPI. Listening to the terms and conditions however, I could see that I wasn't eligible and so I declined.

    I did 3 cases in the 2000s when people clearly did qualify and the insurer refused to pay until taken to court.

    So not only did they have the problem they had supposedly insured against, they also had a court case with all the anxiety that that causes (especially with me at the wheel). Even I managed to win all 3 cases although in 2 of them the clients took less than they were entitled to in settlement to bring it to an end.

    Anyone offering me PPI after that got laughed at.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,248

    @Alanbrooke - "So in simple terms there's no debate on the principle just some quibbling round the edges."

    Absolutely right - it's been about that ever since the Coalition took the route it did. And that's why being seen to be in tune with voters is so important. If cuts and savings are necessary, who do you want to do them and over what time scale? The Tories lead on who is best for the country; Labour leads on who is best for me and my family. Dave leads on best PM/leader; Ed leads on being more in touch with ordinary people. Something has to give.

    Both are liars
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Boris does his bit for coalition harmony......and says what a lot of the LD switchers have known from the start

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/07/boris-johnson-public-sector-spending-cuts-clegg-prophylactic
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Personally, I thought the only people from 2013 worth honouring were the three women who confronted Lee Rigby's killers and comforted him as he lay dying. That shows true class and, frankly, does not need some bauble. But if we are to have honours I'd rather it went to fewer and more worthwhile people than now.

    I'd add this guy, Dr David Knott, interviewed by Eddie Mair last week. If you listen to any interviews from last year, make it these:

    http://tinyurl.com/n5smxt9

    http://tinyurl.com/ocn75cy

    He's worked as a surgeon in a lot of the world's hot spots, Syria for the last couple of years. As you suggest, baubles are probably of miniscule interest to people like this.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    malcolmg said:

    AveryLP said:

    BenM said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Carlota - it looks like Ed is bang to rights, but do you have a direct quote of what he said yesterday just to make sure?

    http://order-order.com/2014/01/06/ed-balls-denies-he-predicted-a-double-dip-recession-except-of-course-he-did/

    If Ed is still in position by the GE that may feature......
    Carlotta

    We need a prediction of a triple dip recession.

    Balls is safe on the double dip as it was reinstated in a recent ONS revision to post recession GDP numbers.

    I pointed that out to Paul Staines in a tweet last night.

    Result? Silence.
    I wouldn't bank on the double dip sticking, Ben.

    The ONS are revising like a Somerville chemist before Finals. And many of the revisions result from methodology changes, reclassifications and compliance with new accounting standards so anticipate major fluctuations.

    The double dip may come and go but you can take comfort that the twin 'eded' dipsticks will stay at least until summer 2015.
    Avery , Can you not just say "fiddling the books".They will change methods till they get the number they want, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck , why do they just not accept that it is a duck. We had a double dip recession and everyone , even Tories , know it.
    Malcolm.

    "Fiddling the books" and getting "a number they want" suggests that the perpetrator is seeking a gain. I don't think this applies to ONS statisticians. It is just Parkinson's Law. Parkinson's original 1955 observations were:

    (1) "An official wants to multiply subordinates, not rivals" ;and,

    (2) "Officials make work for each other."

    This is the ONS at work.

    And as for everyone knowing that we had a double dip recession this is a fallacy. Current thinking is that the ONS has understated growth since the recession, this being a convenient way to avoid having to explain why productivity has fallen so dramatically.

    So the expectations of pipeline revisions are, in the most part, for upward revisions.

    It is only your compatriots idling on rigs in coastal waters that are letting the side down.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Can I have the name of your barber?

    http://bit.ly/1aDGBrB
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,248
    AveryLP said:

    Did anyone watch Benefits street on Channel 4 last night?

    Christ it was like an episode of the Jeremy Kyle Show.

    Or Sheffield as it's known down here.
    Bah, it was set in Birmingham.

    Sheffield is the location of the Garden of Eden.
    Twinning yourself with a closed off naturist park hardly sells it.
    Talking about the Garden of Eden, which is erroneously located in Iraq.

    We owe Tony Blair an apology.

    When we invaded Iraq, he said Al Qaeda were active in Iraq.

    Turns out he was right, ok, they became active after we invaded, but Blair's a visionary.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/01/confusion-prevails-over-clashes-iraq-201416124840445692.html
    being a peace envoy's a tricky profession, sometimes when things are quiet you need to create a conflict or two to get things moving.
    We may even have a peace deal in Israel soon, according to the Sunday Times.
    I'll only believe that when I see Gerry Adams flying out there.
    A bit like Scottish Independence.

    I'll only believe that when I see Pork flying up there.

    Not long to wait now then Avery , Tick Tock ..... Saor Alba
  • Options
    AveryLP said:

    Can I have the name of your barber?

    http://bit.ly/1aDGBrB

    Comrade Chancellor! So you think your current haircut was a mistake, then?

    :)
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    edited January 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    Boris does his bit for coalition harmony......and says what a lot of the LD switchers have known from the start

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/07/boris-johnson-public-sector-spending-cuts-clegg-prophylactic

    Boris deserves a pat on the back for getting cum and prophylactic as consecutive words in relation to Clegg

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,563
    Our foreign aid budget is now £11.3 bn. I would find half of the money being allocated to welfare cuts there.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,248
    AveryLP said:

    malcolmg said:

    AveryLP said:

    BenM said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Carlota - it looks like Ed is bang to rights, but do you have a direct quote of what he said yesterday just to make sure?

    http://order-order.com/2014/01/06/ed-balls-denies-he-predicted-a-double-dip-recession-except-of-course-he-did/

    If Ed is still in position by the GE that may feature......
    Carlotta

    We need a prediction of a triple dip recession.

    Balls is safe on the double dip as it was reinstated in a recent ONS revision to post recession GDP numbers.

    I pointed that out to Paul Staines in a tweet last night.

    Result? Silence.
    I wouldn't bank on the double dip sticking, Ben.

    The ONS are revising like a Somerville chemist before Finals. And many of the revisions result from methodology changes, reclassifications and compliance with new accounting standards so anticipate major fluctuations.

    The double dip may come and go but you can take comfort that the twin 'eded' dipsticks will stay at least until summer 2015.
    Avery , Can you not just say "fiddling the books".They will change methods till they get the number they want, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck , why do they just not accept that it is a duck. We had a double dip recession and everyone , even Tories , know it.
    Malcolm.

    "Fiddling the books" and getting "a number they want" suggests that the perpetrator is seeking a gain. I don't think this applies to ONS statisticians. It is just Parkinson's Law. Parkinson's original 1955 observations were:

    (1) "An official wants to multiply subordinates, not rivals" ;and,

    (2) "Officials make work for each other."

    This is the ONS at work.

    And as for everyone knowing that we had a double dip recession this is a fallacy. Current thinking is that the ONS has understated growth since the recession, this being a convenient way to avoid having to explain why productivity has fallen so dramatically.

    So the expectations of pipeline revisions are, in the most part, for upward revisions.

    It is only your compatriots idling on rigs in coastal waters that are letting the side down.
    Avery, They cover their buttocks by calling it estimates rather than outright fibs manipulated to suit their purpose. If the wind changes direction they revisit their fibs.
  • Options
    Yes that last post should have been after the lagershed.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    Did anyone watch Benefits street on Channel 4 last night?

    Christ it was like an episode of the Jeremy Kyle Show.

    Or Sheffield as it's known down here.
    Bah, it was set in Birmingham.

    Sheffield is the location of the Garden of Eden.
    Twinning yourself with a closed off naturist park hardly sells it.
    Talking about the Garden of Eden, which is erroneously located in Iraq.

    We owe Tony Blair an apology.

    When we invaded Iraq, he said Al Qaeda were active in Iraq.

    Turns out he was right, ok, they became active after we invaded, but Blair's a visionary.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/01/confusion-prevails-over-clashes-iraq-201416124840445692.html
    being a peace envoy's a tricky profession, sometimes when things are quiet you need to create a conflict or two to get things moving.
    We may even have a peace deal in Israel soon, according to the Sunday Times.
    I'll only believe that when I see Gerry Adams flying out there.
    A bit like Scottish Independence.

    I'll only believe that when I see Pork flying up there.

    You don't seriously think ex-pat Nats actually want to live in Scotland do you ?
    I fear he is asleep, Mr. Brooke.

    I hear only loud contented snoring.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,248
    AveryLP said:

    Can I have the name of your barber?

    http://bit.ly/1aDGBrB

    Boris , does that to hide the gaps
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    DavidL said:

    Our foreign aid budget is now £11.3 bn. I would find half of the money being allocated to welfare cuts there.

    I fear the LD coalition partners would stamp their feet and cry, at such a suggestion.

  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Smarmeron said:

    Boris does his bit for coalition harmony......and says what a lot of the LD switchers have known from the start

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/07/boris-johnson-public-sector-spending-cuts-clegg-prophylactic

    Boris deserves a pat on the back for getting cum and prophylactic as consecutive words in relation to Clegg

    You have a knack for ruining a lunch time chess & pickle sandwich - carry on...!
  • Options

    Smarmeron said:

    Boris does his bit for coalition harmony......and says what a lot of the LD switchers have known from the start

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/07/boris-johnson-public-sector-spending-cuts-clegg-prophylactic

    Boris deserves a pat on the back for getting cum and prophylactic as consecutive words in relation to Clegg

    You have a knack for ruining a lunch time chess & pickle sandwich - carry on...!
    Sorry.

  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014

    AveryLP said:

    Can I have the name of your barber?

    http://bit.ly/1aDGBrB

    Comrade Chancellor! So you think your current haircut was a mistake, then?

    :)
    Tovarich Sunil.

    I believe the photo was by Roger.

    Now all we need to do is wait for the great one to post and we will find out who the girlfriend is.

  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    DavidL said:

    Our foreign aid budget is now £11.3 bn. I would find half of the money being allocated to welfare cuts there.

    I would use the half you want to cut to place orders with British Companies for items that are required in the deprived world and get the products made and shipped to the needy destination, thus creating employment, business and doing good.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,958
    Marquee

    What did you make of 'The Book Thief' and Cate Blanchett in Blue Jasmine?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,563
    edited January 2014

    DavidL said:

    Our foreign aid budget is now £11.3 bn. I would find half of the money being allocated to welfare cuts there.

    I fear the LD coalition partners would stamp their feet and cry, at such a suggestion.

    These are post election cuts so their views may not matter. If the tories are going into an election promising nothing but more blood sweat and tears this is really where they have to start. It may not be very popular at dinner parties in London but I don't care. In fact that might be a positive benefit.

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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    DavidL said:

    Our foreign aid budget is now £11.3 bn. I would find half of the money being allocated to welfare cuts there.

    I fear the LD coalition partners would stamp their feet and cry, at such a suggestion.

    It would also breach the Conservative party manifesto commitment.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,167
    edited January 2014

    Cyclefree said:

    Personally, I thought the only people from 2013 worth honouring were the three women who confronted Lee Rigby's killers and comforted him as he lay dying. That shows true class and, frankly, does not need some bauble. But if we are to have honours I'd rather it went to fewer and more worthwhile people than now.

    I'd add this guy, Dr David Knott, interviewed by Eddie Mair last week. If you listen to any interviews from last year, make it these:

    http://tinyurl.com/n5smxt9

    http://tinyurl.com/ocn75cy

    He's worked as a surgeon in a lot of the world's hot spots, Syria for the last couple of years. As you suggest, baubles are probably of miniscule interest to people like this.
    As well as possibly being a danger to him in his work, if he is deemed to be officially linked in any way to the UK Gmt?

    On a more personal level, some of us tend to the philosophy of Rabbie Burns on this (The rank is but the guinea's stamp/The man's the gowd for a that). I gather that the trouble is that even the most self-respecting person can find it difficult to refuse an award if it is seen (by that person or others) to cast badly needed lustre upon your employer, university or other organization such as the overall body for Morris Dancing (a most laudable activity in my opinion, BTW, and a fine background to a pint of ale outside a Dorset pub).

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,563
    Neil said:

    DavidL said:

    Our foreign aid budget is now £11.3 bn. I would find half of the money being allocated to welfare cuts there.

    I fear the LD coalition partners would stamp their feet and cry, at such a suggestion.

    It would also breach the Conservative party manifesto commitment.
    For the last election, not necessarily for the next.

  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited January 2014
    Neil said:

    DavidL said:

    Our foreign aid budget is now £11.3 bn. I would find half of the money being allocated to welfare cuts there.

    I fear the LD coalition partners would stamp their feet and cry, at such a suggestion.

    It would also breach the Conservative party manifesto commitment.
    Which shows how stupid manifestos are that cover all sorts of minor detail. It should be a matter for the individual candidate to set out a view and local voters to make a choice.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Smarmeron said:

    Boris does his bit for coalition harmony......and says what a lot of the LD switchers have known from the start

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/07/boris-johnson-public-sector-spending-cuts-clegg-prophylactic

    Boris deserves a pat on the back for getting cum and prophylactic as consecutive words in relation to Clegg

    You have a knack for ruining a lunch time chess & pickle sandwich - carry on...!
    TSE is a piccalilli.

  • Options

    Cyclefree said:

    Personally, I thought the only people from 2013 worth honouring were the three women who confronted Lee Rigby's killers and comforted him as he lay dying. That shows true class and, frankly, does not need some bauble. But if we are to have honours I'd rather it went to fewer and more worthwhile people than now.

    I'd add this guy, Dr David Knott, interviewed by Eddie Mair last week. If you listen to any interviews from last year, make it these:

    http://tinyurl.com/n5smxt9

    http://tinyurl.com/ocn75cy

    He's worked as a surgeon in a lot of the world's hot spots, Syria for the last couple of years. As you suggest, baubles are probably of miniscule interest to people like this.
    Thanks for posting this.

    Sounds like an exceptional chap.

  • Options
    I think you'll find it is Dave more than anyone else who thinks spending 11bn quid on foreign aid is a fine idea. It reinforces his image of Britain as a great and magnanimous benefactor and his own self-image as a statesman. That it is a colossal waste of money we haven't got doesn't really occur to him. It's not his money. Which is why I don't think Dave is really a conservative. He's all a bit bien-pensant right-on metrosexual. He lacks the simple instinctive journey to a correct intellectual outcome that Maggie or Farage might make: '11bn quid to buy corrupt Johnny Foreigner dictators a new Merc? Up yer bum!'

    His image with his metrosexual buddies of the international stage matter more to him than the 11bn quid hole in our pocket.
  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    philiph said:

    Neil said:

    DavidL said:

    Our foreign aid budget is now £11.3 bn. I would find half of the money being allocated to welfare cuts there.

    I fear the LD coalition partners would stamp their feet and cry, at such a suggestion.

    It would also breach the Conservative party manifesto commitment.
    Which shows how stupid manifestos are that cover all sorts of minor detail.
    I dunno, I think there is a lot to be said for knowing whether a party intends to protect or slash a particular department's budget.
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited January 2014
    Neil said:

    philiph said:

    Neil said:

    DavidL said:

    Our foreign aid budget is now £11.3 bn. I would find half of the money being allocated to welfare cuts there.

    I fear the LD coalition partners would stamp their feet and cry, at such a suggestion.

    It would also breach the Conservative party manifesto commitment.
    Which shows how stupid manifestos are that cover all sorts of minor detail.
    I dunno, I think there is a lot to be said for knowing whether a party intends to protect or slash a particular department's budget.
    I think there is very little to be said for having a parliament of castrated sheep (or rams) who are tied to a five year plan without flexibility.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,629
    edited January 2014
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Can I have the name of your barber?

    http://bit.ly/1aDGBrB

    Comrade Chancellor! So you think your current haircut was a mistake, then?

    :)
    Tovarich Sunil.

    I believe the photo was by Roger.

    Now all we need to do is wait for the great one to post and we will find out who the girlfriend is.

    The question still stands regarding your own barnet, Comrade Chancellor!
  • Options
    AveryLP said:

    Smarmeron said:

    Boris does his bit for coalition harmony......and says what a lot of the LD switchers have known from the start

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/07/boris-johnson-public-sector-spending-cuts-clegg-prophylactic

    Boris deserves a pat on the back for getting cum and prophylactic as consecutive words in relation to Clegg

    You have a knack for ruining a lunch time chess & pickle sandwich - carry on...!
    TSE is a piccalilli.

    Manchester Piccalilli?
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,465

    Yes that last post should have been after the lagershed.

    I'm surprised it made it passed the spam-filter!
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    I'd change the honours system. The basic idea is good, but too often those who already have rewards for their work (money, wealth, bulletproof pension) get gongs too. Volunteers, charity workers, people who are exceptionally brave (the women who confronted Lee Rigby's killers, for example), the military and those who make exceptional contributions, particularly in fields like science, should get them.

    Fewer celebrities, politicians and civil servants should get them.

    And more morris dancers should.

    I suppose that the people who most deserve honours are those who are least concerned about being given them.

  • Options
    Ed is crap says a Labour MP

    Ed Miliband is turning off voters by forcing MPs into a "torturous repetition of political mantras" such as the party's "One Nation" slogan, one of his backbenchers has warned.

    Repeatedly "parroting" phrases and using "vacuous sloganeering" causes people to switch off from politics and ultimately stay away from the ballot box on election day, Simon Danczuk said.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/07/ed-miliband-simon-danczuk_n_4553872.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003
  • Options
    GaiusGaius Posts: 227
    taffys said:

    Increasing overseas aid whilst cutting at home was always going to be tricky.

    Maybe you are right. I wonder what might happen if Farage pledged to slash the overseas aid budget in half, however.

    What if Farage phased it like this;-

    "The foreign aid budget is 12bn a year and most of this is developement aid, only about 250m is actually feeding starving people etc.

    Therefore we plan to cut the forign aid budget buy 11bn, this still leaves plenty for helping the deserving but also allows us to reduce income tax by 2 pence in the pound for every working person."

    Plenty of non voters, and tory and labour waiverers would sit up and take notice.

  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''His image with his metrosexual buddies of the international stage matter more to him than the 11bn quid hole in our pocket. ''

    The reason for the popularity of UKIP, in a nutshell.
  • Options

    AveryLP said:

    Smarmeron said:

    Boris does his bit for coalition harmony......and says what a lot of the LD switchers have known from the start

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/07/boris-johnson-public-sector-spending-cuts-clegg-prophylactic

    Boris deserves a pat on the back for getting cum and prophylactic as consecutive words in relation to Clegg

    You have a knack for ruining a lunch time chess & pickle sandwich - carry on...!
    TSE is a piccalilli.

    Manchester Piccalilli?
    I'm more Manchester Deansgate
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,563
    Patrick said:

    I think you'll find it is Dave more than anyone else who thinks spending 11bn quid on foreign aid is a fine idea. It reinforces his image of Britain as a great and magnanimous benefactor and his own self-image as a statesman. That it is a colossal waste of money we haven't got doesn't really occur to him. It's not his money. Which is why I don't think Dave is really a conservative. He's all a bit bien-pensant right-on metrosexual. He lacks the simple instinctive journey to a correct intellectual outcome that Maggie or Farage might make: '11bn quid to buy corrupt Johnny Foreigner dictators a new Merc? Up yer bum!'

    His image with his metrosexual buddies of the international stage matter more to him than the 11bn quid hole in our pocket.

    I think it was an important part of the detox strategy. But the timing was terrible. When we are running a surplus no doubt foreign aid can be looked at again. At the moment I would not want hundreds of thousands of people in this country to suffer hardship so our leaders can strut the world stage.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Can I have the name of your barber?

    http://bit.ly/1aDGBrB

    Comrade Chancellor! So you think your current haircut was a mistake, then?

    :)
    Tovarich Sunil.

    I believe the photo was by Roger.

    Now all we need to do is wait for the great one to post and we will find out who the girlfriend is.

    The question still stands regarding your own barnet, Comrade Chancellor!
    You are mistaken in my identity, Tovarich.

    You should stop wandering the streets of London carrying a hairdresser's mirror.

  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,465
    Sean_F said:

    I'd change the honours system. The basic idea is good, but too often those who already have rewards for their work (money, wealth, bulletproof pension) get gongs too. Volunteers, charity workers, people who are exceptionally brave (the women who confronted Lee Rigby's killers, for example), the military and those who make exceptional contributions, particularly in fields like science, should get them.

    Fewer celebrities, politicians and civil servants should get them.

    And more morris dancers should.

    I suppose that the people who most deserve honours are those who are least concerned about being given them.

    And some of those who are least concerned about them may have been offered one and turned it down.
  • Options
    Bloody hell

    Andy Flower may quit as England team director if Kevin Pietersen plays on

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    I'd change the honours system. The basic idea is good, but too often those who already have rewards for their work (money, wealth, bulletproof pension) get gongs too. Volunteers, charity workers, people who are exceptionally brave (the women who confronted Lee Rigby's killers, for example), the military and those who make exceptional contributions, particularly in fields like science, should get them.

    Fewer celebrities, politicians and civil servants should get them.

    And more morris dancers should.

    I suppose that the people who most deserve honours are those who are least concerned about being given them.

    And some of those who are least concerned about them may have been offered one and turned it down.
    Although the honours system is abused and dumbed down nowadays it is not as serious as the abuse that happens in appointees to the House of Lords who can actually then get to vote and claim 'expenses' for it
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2014
    Sean_F said:

    I'd change the honours system. The basic idea is good, but too often those who already have rewards for their work (money, wealth, bulletproof pension) get gongs too. Volunteers, charity workers, people who are exceptionally brave (the women who confronted Lee Rigby's killers, for example), the military and those who make exceptional contributions, particularly in fields like science, should get them.

    Fewer celebrities, politicians and civil servants should get them.

    And more morris dancers should.

    I suppose that the people who most deserve honours are those who are least concerned about being given them.

    There was a fantastic comic strip in Viz about a decade or so ago called "Donald Sinden in 'There Goes My Knighthood' " in which Sinden ends up masturbating while sitting in a bucket of pig shite wearing a Nazi t-shirt saying "F*ck off out of it you blasted queen!"" while Her Maj is watching from the Royal box
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    antifrank said:

    @isam A few years ago there was a theory in the US that the presidential candidate with the most luxuriant hair always won. That has been debunked since John Kerry, John McCain and Mitt Romney all lost to less follically-blessed rivals. So perhaps Mr Cameron should go for the short back and sides and polish on top?

    Disclosure of interest: I'm currently sporting a number one, as usual.

    He should go for the Walter White look. Shave off his hair, and grow a really evil looking moustached and beard.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    I think you'll find it is Dave more than anyone else who thinks spending 11bn quid on foreign aid is a fine idea. It reinforces his image of Britain as a great and magnanimous benefactor and his own self-image as a statesman. That it is a colossal waste of money we haven't got doesn't really occur to him. It's not his money. Which is why I don't think Dave is really a conservative. He's all a bit bien-pensant right-on metrosexual. He lacks the simple instinctive journey to a correct intellectual outcome that Maggie or Farage might make: '11bn quid to buy corrupt Johnny Foreigner dictators a new Merc? Up yer bum!'

    His image with his metrosexual buddies of the international stage matter more to him than the 11bn quid hole in our pocket.

    I think it was an important part of the detox strategy. But the timing was terrible. When we are running a surplus no doubt foreign aid can be looked at again. At the moment I would not want hundreds of thousands of people in this country to suffer hardship so our leaders can strut the world stage.
    FWIW what I would do is make the Overseas Aid budget 6bn quid but allocate ALL of it to Emergency Response - so basically there would be minimal regular spending on a day to day basis, but every time a Philippines typhoon or similar came along when people were genuinely in need of help the UK would pile in with cash and significant actual help (tents, food, medicines, blankets etc) ready to roll at a moment's notice. How much would it cost to set up a few ER hubs and ready to go teams? (ALOT less than 11bn!). We'd spend alot less and do much more for our international image.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,071
    I can't comment on the detail of the Mirror story but my first thought is that this reinforces the image of a man who is in politics first and foremost to serve his mates and their interests. Maybe Dave's hairdresser was born on a council estate or from some small mining village in the north. The background doesn't really matter, it just looks like another tale of the chumocracy in action.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Very good discussion on immigration on Daily Politics, have to say Charles Kennedy is so much more respectful of opinions different to his own than most politicians I have seen.

    Nick Robinsons programme at 930pm tonight looks worth watching, "The Truth About Immigration"
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044

    Bloody hell

    Andy Flower may quit as England team director if Kevin Pietersen plays on

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen

    KP was the best of our top order in Aus (Not that that means much)...

    If either him or Flower had to go I'd choose Flower.
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Sean_F said:

    I'd change the honours system. The basic idea is good, but too often those who already have rewards for their work (money, wealth, bulletproof pension) get gongs too. Volunteers, charity workers, people who are exceptionally brave (the women who confronted Lee Rigby's killers, for example), the military and those who make exceptional contributions, particularly in fields like science, should get them.

    Fewer celebrities, politicians and civil servants should get them.

    And more morris dancers should.

    I suppose that the people who most deserve honours are those who are least concerned about being given them.

    And some of those who are least concerned about them may have been offered one and turned it down.
    Although the honours system is abused and dumbed down nowadays it is not as serious as the abuse that happens in appointees to the House of Lords who can actually then get to vote and claim 'expenses' for it
    Mustn't forget this -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_for_Honours
  • Options
    As for overseas aid I do not mind the actual amount spent personally . I am suspicious of what it is spent on (or whose pockets it ultimately ends in after trickle 'up' bribes and fees) . I hope and expect the UK government is sincere when it says it does go to the right people
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    edited January 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    Bloody hell

    Andy Flower may quit as England team director if Kevin Pietersen plays on

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen

    KP was the best of our top order in Aus (Not that that means much)...

    If either him or Flower had to go I'd choose Flower.
    I'd tell the South African show pony to do one.

    I've still not forgiven him for his betrayal of Andrew Strauss.

    The most despicable betrayal in this country since Donald MacLean started to learn Russian.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited January 2014
    isam said:

    Very good discussion on immigration on Daily Politics, have to say Charles Kennedy is so much more respectful of opinions different to his own than most politicians I have seen.

    Nick Robinsons programme at 930pm tonight looks worth watching, "The Truth About Immigration"


    Remains to be seen how that goes - but Isn't he about 5 years too late?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Bloody hell

    Andy Flower may quit as England team director if Kevin Pietersen plays on

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen

    KP was the best of our top order in Aus (Not that that means much)...

    If either him or Flower had to go I'd choose Flower.
    If England had won 5-0 then Andy Flower may have been in a position to make a demand like that .
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,629
    edited January 2014
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Can I have the name of your barber?

    http://bit.ly/1aDGBrB

    Comrade Chancellor! So you think your current haircut was a mistake, then?

    :)
    Tovarich Sunil.

    I believe the photo was by Roger.

    Now all we need to do is wait for the great one to post and we will find out who the girlfriend is.

    The question still stands regarding your own barnet, Comrade Chancellor!
    You are mistaken in my identity, Tovarich.

    You should stop wandering the streets of London carrying a hairdresser's mirror.

    Don't be so modest, Comrade Chancellor! Who else in their right mind would use YOUR picture as their 'Avatar'?

    :)))
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,071
    isam said:

    Very good discussion on immigration on Daily Politics, have to say Charles Kennedy is so much more respectful of opinions different to his own than most politicians I have seen.

    Nick Robinsons programme at 930pm tonight looks worth watching, "The Truth About Immigration"

    I know OGH is no fan and Kennedy may have or had 'issues' of one sort or another but as a political communicator he is a class act. Not many, if any, of the current generation on the same level as him. He's been around a long time but it's strange to think he's a man now in his mid-fifties.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    I think you'll find it is Dave more than anyone else who thinks spending 11bn quid on foreign aid is a fine idea. It reinforces his image of Britain as a great and magnanimous benefactor and his own self-image as a statesman. That it is a colossal waste of money we haven't got doesn't really occur to him. It's not his money. Which is why I don't think Dave is really a conservative. He's all a bit bien-pensant right-on metrosexual. He lacks the simple instinctive journey to a correct intellectual outcome that Maggie or Farage might make: '11bn quid to buy corrupt Johnny Foreigner dictators a new Merc? Up yer bum!'

    His image with his metrosexual buddies of the international stage matter more to him than the 11bn quid hole in our pocket.

    I think it was an important part of the detox strategy. But the timing was terrible. When we are running a surplus no doubt foreign aid can be looked at again. At the moment I would not want hundreds of thousands of people in this country to suffer hardship so our leaders can strut the world stage.
    I agree with that. There is no merit in borrowing money to be charitable.

    What irritates me is the comment "so you'd balance the budget on the backs of the world's poorest" - the worst kind of emotional blackmail. A government's primary responsbility is towards its own citizens, not towards humanity in general.

  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,255

    As for overseas aid I do not mind the actual amount spent personally . I am suspicious of what it is spent on (or whose pockets it ultimately ends in after trickle 'up' bribes and fees) . I hope and expect the UK government is sincere when it says it does go to the right people

    Is there any reason for not thinking that it's what it always was i.e. a way of supporting Swiss and UK banks via 3rd world politicians?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,563
    Very upbeat forecasts from Goldman Sachs for this year: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10555401/Heres-what-Goldman-thinks-will-happen-to-the-UK-in-2014.html

    Just about the first of the mainstream forecasters to think that the UK should hit 3%. It is encouraging that the trend in forecasts is still up although I suspect this trend will come to an end fairly shortly.
    They are even more optimistic about the fall in unemployment than the BoE although they too are expecting a pick up in productivity.
  • Options
    A Populus poll of 4,071 British adults has found that more than half (55%) are more inclined to agree that, on the whole, immigration into Britain is a bad thing for the country, rather than a good thing.

    http://www.populus.co.uk/?post_type=item&p=2560&preview=true
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044

    Pulpstar said:

    Bloody hell

    Andy Flower may quit as England team director if Kevin Pietersen plays on

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen

    KP was the best of our top order in Aus (Not that that means much)...

    If either him or Flower had to go I'd choose Flower.
    I'd tell the South African show pony to do one.

    I've still not forgiven him for his betrayal of Andrew Strauss.

    The most despicable betrayal in this country since Donald MacLean started to learn Russian.
    Captain Cook is the problem. I saw it even here when we won 3-0.

    Dreadfully defensive fields
    Slow over rates - I know that doesn;'t really often affect the match but it's dire to watch England get through 11 overs an hour bowling.
    No momentum in the batting, happy to pootle at 1-2 runs an over at times. That's fine if you can bat for 2 days but fat chance of that recently.
    Immediate thought is how can we not lose this game. Pup always focussed on the win. A massive mentality diffrerence.

    The Oval test was the best example of these differences, although the Aussies were saved by Dar's light meter - they tried to WIN that game.Cook would have just batted out for the draw. A dire negative captain who needs to focus on being the rock at the top of the order that he should be.
  • Options
    On honours, I don't think I know any one who has ever received one. I think the ex head of our fire authority had something, but can't remember what. The likes of Ken Knight get them, but people like him and the head of the fire authority are politicians anyway.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Bloody hell

    Andy Flower may quit as England team director if Kevin Pietersen plays on

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen

    KP was the best of our top order in Aus (Not that that means much)...

    If either him or Flower had to go I'd choose Flower.
    I'd tell the South African show pony to do one.

    I've still not forgiven him for his betrayal of Andrew Strauss.

    The most despicable betrayal in this country since Donald MacLean started to learn Russian.
    Captain Cook is the problem. I saw it even here when we won 3-0.

    Dreadfully defensive fields
    Slow over rates - I know that doesn;'t really often affect the match but it's dire to watch England get through 11 overs an hour bowling.
    No momentum in the batting, happy to pootle at 1-2 runs an over at times. That's fine if you can bat for 2 days but fat chance of that recently.
    Immediate thought is how can we not lose this game. Pup always focussed on the win. A massive mentality diffrerence.

    The Oval test was the best example of these differences, although the Aussies were saved by Dar's light meter - they tried to WIN that game.Cook would have just batted out for the draw. A dire negative captain who needs to focus on being the rock at the top of the order that he should be.
    Cook gets unfair criticism, remember the criticism he got for being defensive in the New Zealand match, but we won.

    That said, I'd replace Cook as Captain, so he can focus upon his batting.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Pulpstar said:

    Bloody hell

    Andy Flower may quit as England team director if Kevin Pietersen plays on

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen

    KP was the best of our top order in Aus (Not that that means much)...

    If either him or Flower had to go I'd choose Flower.
    I'd tell the South African show pony to do one.

    I've still not forgiven him for his betrayal of Andrew Strauss.

    The most despicable betrayal in this country since Donald MacLean started to learn Russian.
    Hmm should the English cricket team get rid of the South African player or the Zimbabwean coach?

    Wouldn't have a decision to make were I in charge!
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    DavidL said:



    I think it was an important part of the detox strategy. But the timing was terrible. When we are running a surplus no doubt foreign aid can be looked at again. At the moment I would not want hundreds of thousands of people in this country to suffer hardship so our leaders can strut the world stage.

    I think this is almost entirely misguided. The vast majority of UK foreign aid has nothing to do with Cameron strutting the world stage - it's used to help people to whom hardship as usually defined in Britain sounds like an impossible dream. It's bad enough that Osborne wants to finance tax cuts at the expense of poor people in Britain, without extending it to virtually starving people abroad.

  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014

    Pulpstar said:

    Bloody hell

    Andy Flower may quit as England team director if Kevin Pietersen plays on

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen

    KP was the best of our top order in Aus (Not that that means much)...

    If either him or Flower had to go I'd choose Flower.
    I'd tell the South African show pony to do one.

    I've still not forgiven him for his betrayal of Andrew Strauss.

    The most despicable betrayal in this country since Donald MacLean started to learn Russian.
    But TSE, the problem is not technical skills or ability, it is man management and morale.

    If England are to stick with Captain Cook then they need to address the psychology bits by replacing Flower. A Brearley type is needed, one who can get the best out of all of Cook, KP and the rest of the team.

    Vaughan was suggesting Collingwood but more as an assistant to Flower than a replacement.

    Any suggestions from those who know the cricket world?

  • Options
    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited January 2014
    David Cameron's enthusiasm for overseas aid has absolutely nothing to do either with the detox strategy, a metropolitan world-view, dinner-parties in Notting Hill, or attracting voters from the left. It arises, very simply, from the paternalistic tradition of many old-style Conservatives, of which he is a classic example.
  • Options
    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    I think you'll find it is Dave more than anyone else who thinks spending 11bn quid on foreign aid is a fine idea. It reinforces his image of Britain as a great and magnanimous benefactor and his own self-image as a statesman. That it is a colossal waste of money we haven't got doesn't really occur to him. It's not his money. Which is why I don't think Dave is really a conservative. He's all a bit bien-pensant right-on metrosexual. He lacks the simple instinctive journey to a correct intellectual outcome that Maggie or Farage might make: '11bn quid to buy corrupt Johnny Foreigner dictators a new Merc? Up yer bum!'

    His image with his metrosexual buddies of the international stage matter more to him than the 11bn quid hole in our pocket.

    I think it was an important part of the detox strategy. But the timing was terrible. When we are running a surplus no doubt foreign aid can be looked at again. At the moment I would not want hundreds of thousands of people in this country to suffer hardship so our leaders can strut the world stage.
    FWIW what I would do is make the Overseas Aid budget 6bn quid but allocate ALL of it to Emergency Response - so basically there would be minimal regular spending on a day to day basis, but every time a Philippines typhoon or similar came along when people were genuinely in need of help the UK would pile in with cash and significant actual help (tents, food, medicines, blankets etc) ready to roll at a moment's notice. How much would it cost to set up a few ER hubs and ready to go teams? (ALOT less than 11bn!). We'd spend alot less and do much more for our international image.
    Easier said than done. We already have the UK Fire Service International Search and Rescue Team, ready to go in under 24 hours. Its finding a plane to transport the personnel and equipment that is the trouble!

  • Options
    THIS IS POSSIBLY THE MOST DISTURBING THING I HAVE EVER POSTED ON PB.

    You have been warned

    The Sunday People ‏@thesundaypeople 9m

    Ever wondered what happens when politicians adopt the hairdos of their partners? YES YOU HAVE - STOP LYING.

    http://bit.ly/leaderhairswap
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Now Tom Watson is on talking about FOBT's... great DP today!

    Im torn whether these machines should be banned, or whether it is the people that play thems stupidity that needs sorting... I was "addicted" to fruit machines as a teenager, despite knowing you couldn't win.. you learn through your pocket
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014

    David Cameron's enthusiasm for overseas aid has absolutely nothing to do either with the detox strategy, a metropolitan world-view, dinner-parties in Notting Hill, or attracting voters from the left. It arises, very simply, from the paternalistic tradition of many old-style Conservatives, of which he is a classic example.

    Absolutely, Richard.

    Getting Cameron to reduce international aid would be as difficult as persuading Charles to drop his charitable work.

    On this issue, Cameron's views will be identical to Nick Palmer's, who is a bit of an "old-school" labourite himself.

  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    THIS IS POSSIBLY THE MOST DISTURBING THING I HAVE EVER POSTED ON PB.

    You have been warned

    The Sunday People ‏@thesundaypeople 9m

    Ever wondered what happens when politicians adopt the hairdos of their partners? YES YOU HAVE - STOP LYING.

    http://bit.ly/leaderhairswap

    No ridicule for Miliband? How odd.

  • Options
    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Bloody hell

    Andy Flower may quit as England team director if Kevin Pietersen plays on

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen

    KP was the best of our top order in Aus (Not that that means much)...

    If either him or Flower had to go I'd choose Flower.
    I'd tell the South African show pony to do one.

    I've still not forgiven him for his betrayal of Andrew Strauss.

    The most despicable betrayal in this country since Donald MacLean started to learn Russian.
    But TSE, the problem is not technical skills or ability, it is man management and morale.

    If England are to stick with Captain Cook then they need to address the psychology bits by replacing Flower. A Brearley type is needed, one who can get the best out of all of Cook, KP and the rest of the team.

    Vaughan was suggesting Collingwood but more as an assistant to Flower than a replacement.

    Any suggestions from those who know the cricket world?

    Brearley was never a coach (or a decent Batsman) just a very good captain.

    What we need is someone like Kim Jong-Un in charge of England cricket.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,563

    DavidL said:



    I think it was an important part of the detox strategy. But the timing was terrible. When we are running a surplus no doubt foreign aid can be looked at again. At the moment I would not want hundreds of thousands of people in this country to suffer hardship so our leaders can strut the world stage.

    I think this is almost entirely misguided. The vast majority of UK foreign aid has nothing to do with Cameron strutting the world stage - it's used to help people to whom hardship as usually defined in Britain sounds like an impossible dream. It's bad enough that Osborne wants to finance tax cuts at the expense of poor people in Britain, without extending it to virtually starving people abroad.

    Who is financing tax cuts? We are trying to eliminate a massive structural deficit. the tax burden has not fallen through this Parliament and is unlikely to fall in the next. It has been switched to some extent from the poor to the rich but presumably you approve of that (as do I).

    You are offering a false choice. The real choices are (a) we cut welfare spending by £12bn causing real hardship for many of our fellow citizens who are not well off (b) we cut foreign aid spending until the deficit is eliminated and we are paying our way again (c) we increase taxes and hope that this does not prove self defeating by damaging the economy or (d) we cut something else.

    Suggestions are welcome but all I see from Labour are promises (or aspirations) to replace spending that has been cut and aspirations to spend more.

  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''It arises, very simply, from the paternalistic tradition of many old-style Conservatives, of which he is a classic example.''

    You are probably right, but I wouldn;t want to take that to the doorsteps of a cash strapped midlands marginal.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    Bit far away yet and things may change, but can anyone tell me how West Indies can POSSIBLY be shorter price than New Zealand for the cricket world cup ?
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    ******BREAKING NEWS******BREAKING NEWS******BREAKING NEWS******

    Cameron's crimper lto be interviewed live on Sky News.

    Tune in now.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Bit far away yet and things may change, but can anyone tell me how West Indies can POSSIBLY be shorter price than New Zealand for the cricket world cup ?

    'Cause the Windies are good at one day cricket, they also be the reigning world t20 champions.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    edited January 2014

    Pulpstar said:

    Bit far away yet and things may change, but can anyone tell me how West Indies can POSSIBLY be shorter price than New Zealand for the cricket world cup ?

    'Cause the Windies are good at one day cricket, they also be the reigning world t20 champions.
    I'm trying to square that circle with what I watched after England had been routed in the last test. (They were playing New Zealand), and were thrashed.
  • Options

    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    I think you'll find it is Dave more than anyone else who thinks spending 11bn quid on foreign aid is a fine idea. It reinforces his image of Britain as a great and magnanimous benefactor and his own self-image as a statesman. That it is a colossal waste of money we haven't got doesn't really occur to him. It's not his money. Which is why I don't think Dave is really a conservative. He's all a bit bien-pensant right-on metrosexual. He lacks the simple instinctive journey to a correct intellectual outcome that Maggie or Farage might make: '11bn quid to buy corrupt Johnny Foreigner dictators a new Merc? Up yer bum!'

    His image with his metrosexual buddies of the international stage matter more to him than the 11bn quid hole in our pocket.

    I think it was an important part of the detox strategy. But the timing was terrible. When we are running a surplus no doubt foreign aid can be looked at again. At the moment I would not want hundreds of thousands of people in this country to suffer hardship so our leaders can strut the world stage.
    FWIW what I would do is make the Overseas Aid budget 6bn quid but allocate ALL of it to Emergency Response - so basically there would be minimal regular spending on a day to day basis, but every time a Philippines typhoon or similar came along when people were genuinely in need of help the UK would pile in with cash and significant actual help (tents, food, medicines, blankets etc) ready to roll at a moment's notice. How much would it cost to set up a few ER hubs and ready to go teams? (ALOT less than 11bn!). We'd spend alot less and do much more for our international image.
    Easier said than done. We already have the UK Fire Service International Search and Rescue Team, ready to go in under 24 hours. Its finding a plane to transport the personnel and equipment that is the trouble!

    How many planes would you get for 6bn quid? A few! Shit, we could add a few hercs to the defense budget but require the MoD to prioritise ER except in times of war and remove the Overseas Aid budget altogether then.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    isam said:

    Now Tom Watson is on talking about FOBT's... great DP today!

    Im torn whether these machines should be banned, or whether it is the people that play thems stupidity that needs sorting... I was "addicted" to fruit machines as a teenager, despite knowing you couldn't win.. you learn through your pocket

    The crucial difference is that you could not lose £100s an hour on fruit machines.

    Labour might still be in power if these were banned (or if they'd never allowed them in the first place) as by sucking money out of the economy and families, they are deflationary and mean that families and whole areas are worse off. Whether the personal micro-economies of Conservative supporters is as affected is open to doubt.

    Satellite television and mobile phone subscriptions were probably the equivalent for Conservatives in 1997s -- leaving so little for "fun" discretionary spending that people felt worse off than the Treasury statisticians claimed they ought to be.
  • Options
    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited January 2014
    taffys said:

    ''It arises, very simply, from the paternalistic tradition of many old-style Conservatives, of which he is a classic example.''

    You are probably right, but I wouldn;t want to take that to the doorsteps of a cash strapped midlands marginal.

    Yes, it would have been sensible to make at least some token cuts to the aid budget and not to have committed to the ring-fence.
  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,739

    Pulpstar said:

    Bit far away yet and things may change, but can anyone tell me how West Indies can POSSIBLY be shorter price than New Zealand for the cricket world cup ?

    'Cause the Windies are good at one day cricket, they also be the reigning world t20 champions.
    Chris Gayle is phenomenal... The rest of the Windies team are mediocre at best. In T20 terms they are pretty much the definition of a One-Man Team.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,293
    I thought foreign aid was an expensive way of giving subsidies to businesses in marginal seats. So, we give money to Sierre Leone, which then decides it desparately needs to spend half the money on new mobile phone masks from a company that happens to be in Eastleigh.

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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    I think you'll find it is Dave more than anyone else who thinks spending 11bn quid on foreign aid is a fine idea. It reinforces his image of Britain as a great and magnanimous benefactor and his own self-image as a statesman. That it is a colossal waste of money we haven't got doesn't really occur to him. It's not his money. Which is why I don't think Dave is really a conservative. He's all a bit bien-pensant right-on metrosexual. He lacks the simple instinctive journey to a correct intellectual outcome that Maggie or Farage might make: '11bn quid to buy corrupt Johnny Foreigner dictators a new Merc? Up yer bum!'

    His image with his metrosexual buddies of the international stage matter more to him than the 11bn quid hole in our pocket.

    I think it was an important part of the detox strategy. But the timing was terrible. When we are running a surplus no doubt foreign aid can be looked at again. At the moment I would not want hundreds of thousands of people in this country to suffer hardship so our leaders can strut the world stage.
    FWIW what I would do is make the Overseas Aid budget 6bn quid but allocate ALL of it to Emergency Response - so basically there would be minimal regular spending on a day to day basis, but every time a Philippines typhoon or similar came along when people were genuinely in need of help the UK would pile in with cash and significant actual help (tents, food, medicines, blankets etc) ready to roll at a moment's notice. How much would it cost to set up a few ER hubs and ready to go teams? (ALOT less than 11bn!). We'd spend alot less and do much more for our international image.
    Easier said than done. We already have the UK Fire Service International Search and Rescue Team, ready to go in under 24 hours. Its finding a plane to transport the personnel and equipment that is the trouble!

    How many planes would you get for 6bn quid? A few! Shit, we could add a few hercs to the defense budget but require the MoD to prioritise ER except in times of war and remove the Overseas Aid budget altogether then.
    How many planes? Probably none, but a big fat MoD contract for BAe to design something for delivery in 2050.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    rcs1000 said:

    I thought foreign aid was an expensive way of giving subsidies to businesses in marginal seats. So, we give money to Sierre Leone, which then decides it desparately needs to spend half the money on new mobile phone masks from a company that happens to be in Eastleigh.

    Or they could buy those masts from china. There is absolubtely no obligation on them to spend the cash we give them back with UK companies.

    You indicate that it is a marginal argument with the word 'expensive' but it might not even subsidise British business, let alone those in key marginals !
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    Patrick said:

    I think you'll find it is Dave more than anyone else who thinks spending 11bn quid on foreign aid is a fine idea. It reinforces his image of Britain as a great and magnanimous benefactor and his own self-image as a statesman. That it is a colossal waste of money we haven't got doesn't really occur to him. It's not his money. Which is why I don't think Dave is really a conservative. He's all a bit bien-pensant right-on metrosexual. He lacks the simple instinctive journey to a correct intellectual outcome that Maggie or Farage might make: '11bn quid to buy corrupt Johnny Foreigner dictators a new Merc? Up yer bum!'

    His image with his metrosexual buddies of the international stage matter more to him than the 11bn quid hole in our pocket.

    Sad but true. And I don't think it got him an extra vote for the party either since bleeding heart types will vote for lefty parties even if Pol Pot was in charge.
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    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    I think you'll find it is Dave more than anyone else who thinks spending 11bn quid on foreign aid is a fine idea. It reinforces his image of Britain as a great and magnanimous benefactor and his own self-image as a statesman. That it is a colossal waste of money we haven't got doesn't really occur to him. It's not his money. Which is why I don't think Dave is really a conservative. He's all a bit bien-pensant right-on metrosexual. He lacks the simple instinctive journey to a correct intellectual outcome that Maggie or Farage might make: '11bn quid to buy corrupt Johnny Foreigner dictators a new Merc? Up yer bum!'

    His image with his metrosexual buddies of the international stage matter more to him than the 11bn quid hole in our pocket.

    I think it was an important part of the detox strategy. But the timing was terrible. When we are running a surplus no doubt foreign aid can be looked at again. At the moment I would not want hundreds of thousands of people in this country to suffer hardship so our leaders can strut the world stage.
    FWIW what I would do is make the Overseas Aid budget 6bn quid but allocate ALL of it to Emergency Response - so basically there would be minimal regular spending on a day to day basis, but every time a Philippines typhoon or similar came along when people were genuinely in need of help the UK would pile in with cash and significant actual help (tents, food, medicines, blankets etc) ready to roll at a moment's notice. How much would it cost to set up a few ER hubs and ready to go teams? (ALOT less than 11bn!). We'd spend alot less and do much more for our international image.
    Easier said than done. We already have the UK Fire Service International Search and Rescue Team, ready to go in under 24 hours. Its finding a plane to transport the personnel and equipment that is the trouble!

    How many planes would you get for 6bn quid? A few! Shit, we could add a few hercs to the defense budget but require the MoD to prioritise ER except in times of war and remove the Overseas Aid budget altogether then.
    How many planes? Probably none, but a big fat MoD contract for BAe to design something for delivery in 2050.
    Indeed - if you allow a weasel bullshit politican to design it that way. We could just go to the manufacturers / second hand market and say: 'I've got 1bn quid to spend - how many Chinooks or Hercules or Antonovs in excellent nick can you sell me?'
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Time for a thread on the new Com Res polling ?
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    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I thought foreign aid was an expensive way of giving subsidies to businesses in marginal seats. So, we give money to Sierre Leone, which then decides it desparately needs to spend half the money on new mobile phone masks from a company that happens to be in Eastleigh.

    Or they could buy those masts from china. There is absolubtely no obligation on them to spend the cash we give them back with UK companies.

    You indicate that it is a marginal argument with the word 'expensive' but it might not even subsidise British business, let alone those in key marginals !
    Incredibly given the foreign reserves China have ,don't we still give aid to China? Or at least we did until very recently
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    I think people would have more confidence in spending on overseas aid if the department stated how much it spent on what country and on what (and then show a tangible result from each amount spent).
    They may do so but I ,who keeps a closer eye I think on Government spending than your average joe have never seen such analysis
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    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Bit far away yet and things may change, but can anyone tell me how West Indies can POSSIBLY be shorter price than New Zealand for the cricket world cup ?

    'Cause the Windies are good at one day cricket, they also be the reigning world t20 champions.
    I'm trying to square that circle with what I watched after England had been routed in the last test. (They were playing New Zealand), and were thrashed.
    No Gayle, and Duckworth-Lewis shafts you when you lose both openers for ducks.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I thought foreign aid was an expensive way of giving subsidies to businesses in marginal seats. So, we give money to Sierre Leone, which then decides it desparately needs to spend half the money on new mobile phone masks from a company that happens to be in Eastleigh.

    Or they could buy those masts from china. There is absolubtely no obligation on them to spend the cash we give them back with UK companies.

    You indicate that it is a marginal argument with the word 'expensive' but it might not even subsidise British business, let alone those in key marginals !
    Incredibly given the foreign reserves China have ,don't we still give aid to China? Or at least we did until very recently
    Actually now I remember the Chinese are very much in Africa, improving lives of African people. Making money out of the deal too. Lots of money !

    Is our "aid" as lucrative as the Chinese-African relationship ? If it is a massive PR exercise needs to be done...
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