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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tim Montgomerie agrees with Nick Clegg on where cuts should

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited January 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tim Montgomerie agrees with Nick Clegg on where cuts should fall

Tory insiders say they'd be tougher on pension benefits if UKIP didn't exist. "We can't afford more core vote defections to Farage" I'm told

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,963
    edited January 2014
    Hmmm - It should be remembered Tim M was Chief of Staff to IDS, when IDS was leader, and as a strategist, he was up there with Field Marshall Haig during World War I
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Lib Dems can put clear yellow water in here as the chart shows above.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Gordon Brown agreed with Nick Clegg, and look what happened to him.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Low-income, working age people have done pretty well out of the government, with the increase in tax allowance. Yes, it was a Lib Dem initiative but it was only in co-operation with the Tories that it was delivered. Ed Balls, it might be remembered, in response to the same request during the post-election negotiations offered to increase the allowance for pensioners only.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Farage just on the Daily Politics re Leader debates...

    The three other party reps said they're happy for him to be on.. Although the Labour woman was a little bit less enthusiastic...

    , Farage said there should be a cut off point in terms of VI polling percentage to decide whether a party was allowed on... And he mentioned 15% !!!

    Maybe he doesn't fancy it!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Tories to pensioners: We won't cut your pensions as long as you keep voting for UKIP.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    isam said:

    Farage just on the Daily Politics re Leader debates...

    The three other party reps said they're happy for him to be on.. Although the Labour woman was a little bit less enthusiastic...

    , Farage said there should be a cut off point in terms of VI polling percentage to decide whether a party was allowed on... And he mentioned 15% !!!

    Maybe he doesn't fancy it!

    He's just trying to ditch the lib dems from being there... :)
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    FPT Avery cuts the "ish" off the goodish news

    As we now have the PMIs in for the three main output sectors which contribute to GDP and, on the expenditure front, some early indications of Q4 retail sales, the forecasters of Q4 GDP have begun to sharpen their pencils.

    Commenting on the [PMI] data Chris Williamson, Chief Economist at Markit, pointed out how the most recent purchasing managers´ survey results suggest that growth will have accelerated from the 0.8% pace seen in the third quarter. "If borne out by the official data gross domestic product will have expanded at a 1.9% clip over the last year, the most since 2007," he added.

    Precisely in that regard Barclays Research today upped its forecast for fourth quarter economic growth to 0.8% from the 0.7% previously envisaged. A turnaround in investment, after a prolonged period of weakness, is likely to drive the recovery, Barclays said as well.


    [Source: Digitallook]

    The middle SWIFTIndex nowcast for Q4 growth was down at 0.3%, with the OBR forecast at the time of the Autumn Statement 0.6%. So there is some optimistic uprating going on in the commentariat.

    Enough to rid ourselves of the ish.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,470
    isam said:

    Farage just on the Daily Politics re Leader debates...

    The three other party reps said they're happy for him to be on.. Although the Labour woman was a little bit less enthusiastic...

    , Farage said there should be a cut off point in terms of VI polling percentage to decide whether a party was allowed on... And he mentioned 15% !!!

    Maybe he doesn't fancy it!

    Let's have true equality: scrap the debates. :-)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    AveryLP said:

    FPT Avery cuts the "ish" off the goodish news

    As we now have the PMIs in for the three main output sectors which contribute to GDP and, on the expenditure front, some early indications of Q4 retail sales, the forecasters of Q4 GDP have begun to sharpen their pencils.

    Commenting on the [PMI] data Chris Williamson, Chief Economist at Markit, pointed out how the most recent purchasing managers´ survey results suggest that growth will have accelerated from the 0.8% pace seen in the third quarter. "If borne out by the official data gross domestic product will have expanded at a 1.9% clip over the last year, the most since 2007," he added.

    Precisely in that regard Barclays Research today upped its forecast for fourth quarter economic growth to 0.8% from the 0.7% previously envisaged. A turnaround in investment, after a prolonged period of weakness, is likely to drive the recovery, Barclays said as well.


    [Source: Digitallook]

    The middle SWIFTIndex nowcast for Q4 growth was down at 0.3%, with the OBR forecast at the time of the Autumn Statement 0.6%. So there is some optimistic uprating going on in the commentariat.

    Enough to rid ourselves of the ish.

    Excellent news :-)
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Tories to pensioners: We won't cut your pensions as long as you keep voting for UKIP.

    Except he has and that may be what sent some of them off to UKIP in the first place!

    And he cant even get his message straight without a compelling answer to the obvious follow-up about what happens to universal benefits.
  • Someone who doesn't agree with Nick

    Lib Dem smugness has made terrorists' lives easier

    Nick Clegg's party is risking our safety to impress the Islington dinner party circuit, argues Tom Harris.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10553418/Lib-Dem-smugness-has-made-terrorists-lives-easier.html
  • This sentence in Osborne's speech leapt out of the page:

    And while no sensible Chancellor ever rules out tax changes, our whole economic plan can be delivered by reducing spending further not by increasing taxes.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited January 2014
    Clegg's problem with the debates is that none of the papers are going to decide it was him wot won it.

    NI will come out for Cameron, probably Mail/Telegraph too tho could go kipper...
    Mirror group/Grauniad for Ed
    Express for Nigel.

    Who is going to report that Clegg has 'won' a debate. And it is the perception that forms the narrative, and the papers that can lead perception somewhat (still) will decide he hasn't !

    Maybe the Independent but he'll have to win by a country mile for it to be so...
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Someone who doesn't agree with Nick

    Lib Dem smugness has made terrorists' lives easier

    Nick Clegg's party is risking our safety to impress the Islington dinner party circuit, argues Tom Harris.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10553418/Lib-Dem-smugness-has-made-terrorists-lives-easier.html

    Incoherent gibberish from a complete moron. It's almost like he's trying to make us like Nick Clegg.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Tories to pensioners: We won't cut your pensions as long as you keep voting for UKIP.

    Ed Balls has just told Adam Boulton in a Sky News interview that Labour would abolish the Winter Fuel Allowance if elected in 2015 (uncertain whether this would be a straight abolition or partial means tested culling).

    False teeth are flying over the cliffs of South Thanet and hitting the sea defences harder than the spring tides.

    The kippers now face a hard choice.

    Leave Cameron out in the cold or keep warm at Christmas.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Politicians in paying more attention to people likeliest to vote shock.

    Whether that makes for good governance is, of course, another question. But then, attaining power and ruling well have always been different matters (cf The Prince and Discourses on Livy).
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited January 2014
    AveryLP said:



    The kippers now face a hard choice.

    Leave Cameron out in the cold or keep warm at Christmas.

    Except Cameron has not promised to retain the WFA, has he?

    Labour's policy has been to restrict WFA to higher and additional tax rate pensioners.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Neil, Winter Fuel Allowance could be used by the blues to counter (at least partially) Labour's energy freeze policy.
  • Robert Cottrell ‏@robertcottrell 19h

    How Fiddler on the Roof changed the course of American legal opinions.

    pic.twitter.com/ZMJzRyr8Tk
  • This sentence in Osborne's speech leapt out of the page:

    And while no sensible Chancellor ever rules out tax changes, our whole economic plan can be delivered by reducing spending further not by increasing taxes.

    Isn't that pretty much what Ken Clarke was saying before the 1992 GE?

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Pulpstar said:


    Labour U-turn ?

    No - the article reiterates existing Labour policy - to take WFA away from higher and additional rate pensioners.
  • I'm back!!

    TSE..... once too often to the Spurs well? I see Tim blamed the small size of our available squad for the defeat...............smallest in the PL I think he's reported as saying......

    Looking forward to the first 2014 YouGov as well..... must be time soon for a thread on the LD 2010 turned Lab voters.... the new Ed is Crap core topic.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567
    Snappy line from Clegg: Tories giving priority to "dead millionaires" (inheritance tax) and "unmarried tax penalty" (marriage tax allowance). A new bedroom tax vs additional room allowance reduction terminological dispute coming?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    More meat and drink for the Kippers.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/10553020/Poland-attacks-David-Cameron-plan-to-ban-Polish-and-EU-migrants-from-claiming-child-benefit.html

    Poland has hit back at David Cameron's call for a change to the European Union's treaties to allow the Government to withdraw child welfare benefits from Polish migrants working in Britain.

  • This sentence in Osborne's speech leapt out of the page:

    And while no sensible Chancellor ever rules out tax changes, our whole economic plan can be delivered by reducing spending further not by increasing taxes.

    Isn't that pretty much what Ken Clarke was saying before the 1992 GE?

    Do you mean Norman Lamont?
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    This sentence in Osborne's speech leapt out of the page:

    And while no sensible Chancellor ever rules out tax changes, our whole economic plan can be delivered by reducing spending further not by increasing taxes.

    Isn't that pretty much what Ken Clarke was saying before the 1992 GE?

    Do you mean Clarke in 1997 or Lamont in 1992?


  • Snappy line from Clegg: Tories giving priority to "dead millionaires" (inheritance tax) and "unmarried tax penalty" (marriage tax allowance). A new bedroom tax vs additional room allowance reduction terminological dispute coming?

    The line isn't very snappy if there are no proposals for inheritance tax changes, which I think is the case.
  • Whilst away, I saw a classic idiot tweet from everyone's Labour lad Owen Jones calling for those earning £100k or more to be taxed at 50% not 40%....

    I'm hoping someone explained to him that the effective rate for someone at that level is actually 62% marginal rate of tax and his brainwave would raise it to Hollande-like 72%!!.
  • Snappy line from Clegg: Tories giving priority to "dead millionaires" (inheritance tax) and "unmarried tax penalty" (marriage tax allowance). A new bedroom tax vs additional room allowance reduction terminological dispute coming?

    The line isn't very snappy if there are no proposals for inheritance tax changes, which I think is the case.
    Could be for an IHT cut as an aspiration in the future as/when a surplus has been restored?
    As part of a package of tax cutting aspirations no doubt....
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited January 2014
    Are we now looking at an election manifesto race to the bottom between the Libdems and Labour in a bid to see who can be tougher on prudent pensioners who planned and saved for their retirement? That's a brave move.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    fitalass said:

    Are we now looking at an election manifesto race to the bottom between the Libdems and Labour in a bid to see who can be tougher on prudent pensioners who planned and saved for their retirement? That's a brave move.

    Looking at the numbers above, the LDs have nothing to lose.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Palmer, a riposte might be that Clegg would like to send a card offering his condolences, which includes an increased tax bill for the mourners. Inheritance tax is at a high level already.

    There is no penalty for being unmarried. I know. I'm not married. I haven't been sent a single tax bill by HMRC for my lack of a wife.

    The absence of a perk is not a penalty. To claim that is intellectually subnormal gibberish.
  • JohnO said:

    This sentence in Osborne's speech leapt out of the page:

    And while no sensible Chancellor ever rules out tax changes, our whole economic plan can be delivered by reducing spending further not by increasing taxes.

    Isn't that pretty much what Ken Clarke was saying before the 1992 GE?

    Do you mean Clarke in 1997 or Lamont in 1992?


    Whoops. It was Lamont.

  • I'm back!!

    TSE..... once too often to the Spurs well? I see Tim blamed the small size of our available squad for the defeat...............smallest in the PL I think he's reported as saying......

    Looking forward to the first 2014 YouGov as well..... must be time soon for a thread on the LD 2010 turned Lab voters.... the new Ed is Crap core topic.

    It was worth it, for Theo's response to the Spurs taunts.

    I am thinking of backing Palace to beat you lot on Saturday.

    At least you're not Manchester United.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:

    AveryLP said:



    The kippers now face a hard choice.

    Leave Cameron out in the cold or keep warm at Christmas.

    Except Cameron has not promised to retain the WFA, has he?

    Labour's policy has been to restrict WFA to higher and additional tax rate pensioners.
    Neil

    I note with disapproval that you are selectively editing my original posts.

    Cameron is best remaining silent on this issue.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    fitalass said:

    Are we now looking at an election manifesto race to the bottom between the Libdems and Labour in a bid to see who can be tougher on prudent pensioners who planned and saved for their retirement? That's a brave move.

    I doubt either of them will try to screw pensioners over by as much as Osborne has.
  • It says a lot about North Korea, that the story was believed

    Story about Kim Jong-un's uncle being fed to dogs originated with satirist

    Lurid story about Jang-Song-theak's death apparently first appeared in satirical post on Chinese social media network

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/06/story-kim-jong-un-uncle-fed-dogs-made-up
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    It says a lot about North Korea, that the story was believed

    It appears that Paddy Power are STILL involved in aspects of the Rodman trip. I'd give up betting with them in protest except that would boost their profits.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410



    The absence of a perk is not a penalty. To claim that is intellectually subnormal gibberish.

    But alas accepted political discourse normality

    THA Bedr0ooo0-0m Taix !
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779

    Snappy line from Clegg: Tories giving priority to "dead millionaires" (inheritance tax) and "unmarried tax penalty" (marriage tax allowance). A new bedroom tax vs additional room allowance reduction terminological dispute coming?

    The line isn't very snappy if there are no proposals for inheritance tax changes, which I think is the case.
    Could be for an IHT cut as an aspiration in the future as/when a surplus has been restored?
    As part of a package of tax cutting aspirations no doubt....
    They should just scrap IHT. It doesn't raise very much money at all.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Neil said:

    It says a lot about North Korea, that the story was believed

    It appears that Paddy Power are STILL involved in aspects of the Rodman trip. I'd give up betting with them in protest except that would boost their profits.
    I don't know if I'm in profit with them. Neither do they... All will be revealed come 2015 !
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565

    Low-income, working age people have done pretty well out of the government, with the increase in tax allowance. Yes, it was a Lib Dem initiative but it was only in co-operation with the Tories that it was delivered. Ed Balls, it might be remembered, in response to the same request during the post-election negotiations offered to increase the allowance for pensioners only.

    I heard on good authority that the core Labour offer to the Lib Dems was "our manifesto minus a 3rd runway at Heathrow." Any surprise that the Lib Dems told them to get lost given the offer on the table from the Tories?
  • Neil said:

    It says a lot about North Korea, that the story was believed

    It appears that Paddy Power are STILL involved in aspects of the Rodman trip. I'd give up betting with them in protest except that would boost their profits.
    The great thing about this story is that it was only until recently, that Paddy Power discovered that North Korea were bad eggs.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,963
    edited January 2014
    Neil, I see the value in this market being Jedward and Dustin the Turkey, what do you think?

    WHO WILL REPRESENT IRELAND AT EUROVISION 2014?

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/music/eurovision-song-contest?ev_oc_grp_ids=601482
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @TSE

    No price quoted for Crystal Swing?!
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Osborne would be much better advised to cut the top rate of income tax to 40% rather than raise income tax thresholds for the low paid.

    The Exchequer collects VAT on the purchases of yachts and stamp duties on second homes.

    Food banks don't charge VAT or pay corporate tax.

    Will no one rid the country of our turbulent deficit?
  • Neil said:

    @TSE

    No price quoted for Crystal Swing?!

    I'm going to ring Paddy and ask them to quote a price.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    It says a lot about North Korea, that the story was believed

    Story about Kim Jong-un's uncle being fed to dogs originated with satirist

    Lurid story about Jang-Song-theak's death apparently first appeared in satirical post on Chinese social media network

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/06/story-kim-jong-un-uncle-fed-dogs-made-up

    I've just had this terrible thought that tim might have been thrown to 120 unfed cats.....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    AveryLP said:

    Osborne would be much better advised to cut the top rate of income tax to 40% rather than raise income tax thresholds for the low paid.

    The Exchequer collects VAT on the purchases of yachts and stamp duties on second homes.

    Food banks don't charge VAT or pay corporate tax.

    Will no one rid the country of our turbulent deficit?

    As the most rampant capitalist on this board, can I just say: no.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "UKIP are pleased to announce the appointment of Patrick O’Flynn as the party’s new Director of Communications.

    Patrick will leave his job at The Daily Express newspaper as Chief Political Commentator in February to help oversee UKIP's campaign for the 2014 European and UK local elections."

    http://www.ukip.org/newsroom/news/1106-ukip-announce-new-director-of-communications
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    JohnO said:

    It says a lot about North Korea, that the story was believed

    Story about Kim Jong-un's uncle being fed to dogs originated with satirist

    Lurid story about Jang-Song-theak's death apparently first appeared in satirical post on Chinese social media network

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/06/story-kim-jong-un-uncle-fed-dogs-made-up

    I've just had this terrible thought that tim might have been thrown to 120 unfed cats.....
    I fear the cats are still unfed.

  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited January 2014

    Someone who doesn't agree with Nick

    Lib Dem smugness has made terrorists' lives easier

    Nick Clegg's party is risking our safety to impress the Islington dinner party circuit, argues Tom Harris.

    At least Harris has the intellectual honesty to recognise that the logic of the Labour Party's position (and for that matter the government's as well) is support for the reintroduction of internment. If only we had a government that was prepared to stand up for the liberty of all British citizens, whether they be suspected terrorists, suspected murderers or not suspected of anything at all. Unfortunately, we don't. The only debate is about the minuteness of the extent to which the Secretary of State should be able to control the lives of wholly innocent people. That reveals how authoritarian this country has become.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    AveryLP said:

    Osborne would be much better advised to cut the top rate of income tax to 40% rather than raise income tax thresholds for the low paid.

    The Exchequer collects VAT on the purchases of yachts and stamp duties on second homes.

    Food banks don't charge VAT or pay corporate tax.

    Will no one rid the country of our turbulent deficit?

    Are you suggesting that due to the coalition's policies, food banks now represent a major part of our economy? So much so that they need to be taken into consideration when determining tax policy?

    As I've said before, sometimes I wonder whether there's a degree of irony about your comments. But then I get this sinking feeling and think, christ, he's not serious is he?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014

    "UKIP are pleased to announce the appointment of Patrick O’Flynn as the party’s new Director of Communications.

    Patrick will leave his job at The Daily Express newspaper as Chief Political Commentator in February to help oversee UKIP's campaign for the 2014 European and UK local elections."

    http://www.ukip.org/newsroom/news/1106-ukip-announce-new-director-of-communications

    I guess this means that UKIP will be announcing a cure for Alzheimers and arthritis in their 2015 GE manifesto.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    The poll refers to people on "state pensions only".

    NOBODY in the UK has to live on the state pension only - anyone with no income other than the state pension will also receive pension credit (unless they have substantial savings in which case they will also have savings income).

    So precisely who is this a poll of?
  • rcs1000

    Out of interest, is your 'no' to lower top rates of income tax based on the politics or the view that it is not self funding (a move back towards the optimum on a Laffer curve)?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Patrick said:

    rcs1000

    Out of interest, is your 'no' to lower top rates of income tax based on the politics or the view that it is not self funding (a move back towards the optimum on a Laffer curve)?

    It's based on two factors:

    1. Lower income workers spend a greater proportion of their incomes than higher income ones. Therefore to maintain the pace of economic recovery, it is better to pass money to people who will spend rather than save.

    2. Once our deficit is under control, and debt-to-GDP is beginning to decline again, I would fully support the abolition of the 45% tax rate, as well as the absurd phasing out of the tax free allowance for higher rate earners.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    MikeL said:

    The poll refers to people on "state pensions only".

    NOBODY in the UK has to live on the state pension only - anyone with no income other than the state pension will also receive pension credit (unless they have substantial savings in which case they will also have savings income).

    So precisely who is this a poll of?

    Presumably of people whose only income in retirement is from the state.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @Morris Dancer

    "I haven't been sent a single tax bill by HMRC for my lack of a wife."

    Hush, Mr. Dancer, hush. The good doctor is a socialist, no need to give him ideas especially as he will probably be back in parliament next year.

    Mind you, speaking as a married man, I think there might be merit in a penalty tax for the unmarrieds. It would sort of be a windfall come envy tax and, to create a level playing field with your married compatriots it should be set at about 90% of income.

    P.S. In these enlightened days should you not have said, "My lack of wife/husband"?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    I'm fairly sure it means "only people on state pensions" not "people only on state pensions". It's unclear, but the former is much more likely given the context.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Quincel said:

    I'm fairly sure it means "only people on state pensions" not "people only on state pensions". It's unclear, but the former is much more likely given the context.

    Yes, that does make more sense!

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Will no one rid the country of our turbulent deficit?

    Its just so counter intuitive though, isn't it? Give the rich a massive tax cut and slash benefits for the 'most vulnerable'

    Perhaps we should re make Robin Hood.

    Robin finds that his attempts to rob the rich and give to the poor are unsuccessful, because the rich had moved to other, less brigand friendly shires.

    Nottingham castle and Manor house prices nosedived, and the poor were poorer than ever, because the rich had taken all the jobs with them.

    The local Priory also had to move to Lincoln because the rich were the main charity sponsors.

    Unfortunately they took maid Marion with them.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Llama, splendid to see you back on.

    I suppose I should have. For the sake of clarity, I also have no husband.

    It's bad enough that politicians bang on about hardworking families all the time, as though single people offer nothing of value, without being taxed for it!

    Could be worse, though. I could be married to a horrid person.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    AveryLP said:

    "UKIP are pleased to announce the appointment of Patrick O’Flynn as the party’s new Director of Communications.

    Patrick will leave his job at The Daily Express newspaper as Chief Political Commentator in February to help oversee UKIP's campaign for the 2014 European and UK local elections."

    http://www.ukip.org/newsroom/news/1106-ukip-announce-new-director-of-communications

    I guess this means that UKIP will be announcing a cure for Alzheimers and arthritis in their 2015 GE manifesto.

    It wouldn't surprise me. But it begs the question. Why aren't the Tories taking Ukip on? Instead Cameron gives the impression of 'yeah you know that Nigel Farage, he's on to something I reckon. He's a good egg and all but we can match what he says anyway, so don't bother voting for him.'
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    @Morris Dancer

    "I haven't been sent a single tax bill by HMRC for my lack of a wife."

    Hush, Mr. Dancer, hush. The good doctor is a socialist, no need to give him ideas especially as he will probably be back in parliament next year.

    Mind you, speaking as a married man, I think there might be merit in a penalty tax for the unmarrieds. It would sort of be a windfall come envy tax and, to create a level playing field with your married compatriots it should be set at about 90% of income.

    P.S. In these enlightened days should you not have said, "My lack of wife/husband"?

    Welcome back, Mr Llama.

    You have been much missed.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    AveryLP said:

    "UKIP are pleased to announce the appointment of Patrick O’Flynn as the party’s new Director of Communications.

    Patrick will leave his job at The Daily Express newspaper as Chief Political Commentator in February to help oversee UKIP's campaign for the 2014 European and UK local elections."

    http://www.ukip.org/newsroom/news/1106-ukip-announce-new-director-of-communications

    I guess this means that UKIP will be announcing a cure for Alzheimers and arthritis in their 2015 GE manifesto.

    It wouldn't surprise me. But it begs the question. Why aren't the Tories taking Ukip on? Instead Cameron gives the impression of 'yeah you know that Nigel Farage, he's on to something I reckon. He's a good egg and all but we can match what he says anyway, so don't bother voting for him.'
    How should the Tories take UKIP on?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    Osborne's speech is almost scary. The bit that jumps out at me was this:

    "The bad news is: there’s still a long way to go. We’re borrowing around £100 billion a year – and paying half that money a year in interest just to service our debts. We’ve got to make more cuts. £17 billion this coming year. £20 billion next year. And over £25 billion further across the two years after. That’s more than £60 billion in total."

    When did we last have a government going into an election year promising these sorts of cuts? This is where the end loading of cuts over the Parliament (necessary to achieve and maintain economic stability) really comes back to bite with a vengence.

    Are the Lib Dems really going to sign up to £17bn of cuts this year and £20bn next? Will the Coalition survive this?

    The BBC focussed today on the £25bn of cuts in the next Parliament on the basis that they are new but I wonder how clearly identified £20bn of cuts in an election year have been identified. I also wonder whether the implications of the government cutting spending by more than 8% across the board has struck home with people. Our welfare state is going to look seriously different by the election in May 2015. A lot of things that people take as "rights" at the present time are going to have to go.

    RCS1000 was stating that we were about 2 years ahead of Ireland in our economic recovery. We may be for the banks but we are about to experience much of what the Irish have suffered over the last 4 years.
  • Mr. Llama, splendid to see you back on.

    I suppose I should have. For the sake of clarity, I also have no husband.

    It's bad enough that politicians bang on about hardworking families all the time, as though single people offer nothing of value, without being taxed for it!

    Could be worse, though. I could be married to a horrid person.

    I'll give you my tips for a successful and happy marriage

    1. It is important to find a woman that cooks and cleans.

    2. It is important to find a woman that makes good money.

    3. It is important to find a woman that likes to have sex.

    and MOST important...

    4. It is important that these three women never meet.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Pension policy ought yo be taken out of political hands and policy be made by a non-partisan body. Dave's oldies wheeze is economic vandalism. All major parties need to sign up to a cross party agreement to stop feathering the nests of baby boomers.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    "UKIP are pleased to announce the appointment of Patrick O’Flynn as the party’s new Director of Communications.

    Patrick will leave his job at The Daily Express newspaper as Chief Political Commentator in February to help oversee UKIP's campaign for the 2014 European and UK local elections."

    http://www.ukip.org/newsroom/news/1106-ukip-announce-new-director-of-communications

    I guess this means that UKIP will be announcing a cure for Alzheimers and arthritis in their 2015 GE manifesto.

    It wouldn't surprise me. But it begs the question. Why aren't the Tories taking Ukip on? Instead Cameron gives the impression of 'yeah you know that Nigel Farage, he's on to something I reckon. He's a good egg and all but we can match what he says anyway, so don't bother voting for him.'
    The Tories strategy on UKIP should be near identical to their Better Together campaign in Scotland.

    The less said the better.

    Leave it to the fourth estate to take up arms against a sea of kippers and by opposing end them.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    @Morris Dancer

    "I haven't been sent a single tax bill by HMRC for my lack of a wife."

    Hush, Mr. Dancer, hush. The good doctor is a socialist, no need to give him ideas especially as he will probably be back in parliament next year.

    Mind you, speaking as a married man, I think there might be merit in a penalty tax for the unmarrieds. It would sort of be a windfall come envy tax and, to create a level playing field with your married compatriots it should be set at about 90% of income.

    P.S. In these enlightened days should you not have said, "My lack of wife/husband"?

    Llama man, a pleasure to see you back, hope all's well and best wishes for the New Year.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Eagles, that punchline was rather obvious.

    Mr. Max, perhaps a sound idea but the problem is what happens if the independent comes up with a solution people hate? (cf the 'pay rise' for politicians).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    DavidL said:

    Osborne's speech is almost scary. The bit that jumps out at me was this:

    "The bad news is: there’s still a long way to go. We’re borrowing around £100 billion a year – and paying half that money a year in interest just to service our debts. We’ve got to make more cuts. £17 billion this coming year. £20 billion next year. And over £25 billion further across the two years after. That’s more than £60 billion in total."

    When did we last have a government going into an election year promising these sorts of cuts? This is where the end loading of cuts over the Parliament (necessary to achieve and maintain economic stability) really comes back to bite with a vengence.

    Are the Lib Dems really going to sign up to £17bn of cuts this year and £20bn next? Will the Coalition survive this?

    The BBC focussed today on the £25bn of cuts in the next Parliament on the basis that they are new but I wonder how clearly identified £20bn of cuts in an election year have been identified. I also wonder whether the implications of the government cutting spending by more than 8% across the board has struck home with people. Our welfare state is going to look seriously different by the election in May 2015. A lot of things that people take as "rights" at the present time are going to have to go.

    RCS1000 was stating that we were about 2 years ahead of Ireland in our economic recovery. We may be for the banks but we are about to experience much of what the Irish have suffered over the last 4 years.

    A small part of me wishes Labour had won in 2010 and then fail to make the cuts necessary to rebalance the economy and then finally call in the IMF so we could start with a clean slate. Only a small part mind...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,470
    Co-op: UK regulator to launch formal investigation of bank
    The Bank of England's Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA) said that its investigation would consider the role of former senior managers.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25622439

    And welcome back Mr Llama (and Socrates)
  • Huzzah for Llamas.
  • DavidL

    RCS1000 was stating that we were about 2 years ahead of Ireland in our economic recovery. We may be for the banks but we are about to experience much of what the Irish have suffered over the last 4 years.

    We're going to suffer that one way or other whether or not the government of the day plans to manage it. If we keep trying to borrow 100bn a year forever the markets will rapidly move the interest rates for the UK. Labour created a monstrous structural deficit over 13 years. Did they think this would not have consequences? So far the UK has 'bravely' made the easy choices about cutting the deficit back to something survivable. Now come the harder choices.

    Thanks Gordon and Ed. NOT.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Now come the harder choices.

    I suppose these will be a little easier to live with if the economy is recovering and living standards are starting to recover.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    taffys said:

    Will no one rid the country of our turbulent deficit?

    Its just so counter intuitive though, isn't it? Give the rich a massive tax cut and slash benefits for the 'most vulnerable'

    Perhaps we should re make Robin Hood.

    Robin finds that his attempts to rob the rich and give to the poor are unsuccessful, because the rich had moved to other, less brigand friendly shires.

    Nottingham castle and Manor house prices nosedived, and the poor were poorer than ever, because the rich had taken all the jobs with them.

    The local Priory also had to move to Lincoln because the rich were the main charity sponsors.

    Unfortunately they took maid Marion with them.

    I am all for it.

    Should do wonders for Nick Palmer's re-election prospects in Broxtowe.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    Patrick said:

    DavidL

    RCS1000 was stating that we were about 2 years ahead of Ireland in our economic recovery. We may be for the banks but we are about to experience much of what the Irish have suffered over the last 4 years.

    We're going to suffer that one way or other whether or not the government of the day plans to manage it. If we keep trying to borrow 100bn a year forever the markets will rapidly move the interest rates for the UK. Labour created a monstrous structural deficit over 13 years. Did they think this would not have consequences? So far the UK has 'bravely' made the easy choices about cutting the deficit back to something survivable. Now come the harder choices.

    Thanks Gordon and Ed. NOT.

    Patrick, I do not dispute the necessity of it. I really cannot see a situation where the UK can realistically look to generate more than £700bn in taxes a year in anything like normal times. We didn't even manage this in the biggest bubble any bunch of incompetents has ever created.

    I do worry, however, about the politics. When you think about the ridiculous fuss and upset caused by the ending of the spare room subsidy or the so called granny tax you realise how profoundly orientated towards higher spending our media and indeed our electorate are. These were both tiny drops in the ocean compared with what is coming.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @AveryLP

    Nice of you to say so, Mr. LP. and it feels nice to be back among friends too. As Mr. Socrates said on here the other evening, the reason why I eschewed the site seems to have gone.

    Now who was it that I had a bet with the the Scots Indy referendum would not happen? I might need to dust off my cheque book.
  • taffys said:

    Now come the harder choices.

    I suppose these will be a little easier to live with if the economy is recovering and living standards are starting to recover.

    FWIW I think Osborne was exactly right to cut fast enough to keep markets broadly happy but slow enough to not cause immediate political or GDP pain. That window or sweetspot was not very wide and he got it about right. So, yes - the faster GDP recovers the faster we can do the necessary. But still very much at a speed within the limits of acceptability.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. L, the divergence between reality and expectations/desires is quite significant. The wider the gap, the deeper the pit into which the nation might fall.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    MaxPB said:

    Pension policy ought yo be taken out of political hands and policy be made by a non-partisan body. Dave's oldies wheeze is economic vandalism. All major parties need to sign up to a cross party agreement to stop feathering the nests of baby boomers.

    Why not just have done with it and contract out all government policy then.

    I dislike the idea that independent bodies, free of any political oversight, should determine policy. It's undemocratic. There is a simple answer for younger people if they want to have their interests listened to and that is to exercise their votes more often (and more variably, ideally).
  • I'm back!!

    TSE..... once too often to the Spurs well? I see Tim blamed the small size of our available squad for the defeat...............smallest in the PL I think he's reported as saying......

    Looking forward to the first 2014 YouGov as well..... must be time soon for a thread on the LD 2010 turned Lab voters.... the new Ed is Crap core topic.

    It was worth it, for Theo's response to the Spurs taunts.

    I am thinking of backing Palace to beat you lot on Saturday.

    At least you're not Manchester United.
    What did he do?

    I agree Palace at 10-1 and our poor home record, 'tiny' squad....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Hey guys, stop worrying about the deficit. As UKIP has stated on the website, we're going to have a Sovereign Wealth Fund!
  • DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    DavidL

    RCS1000 was stating that we were about 2 years ahead of Ireland in our economic recovery. We may be for the banks but we are about to experience much of what the Irish have suffered over the last 4 years.

    We're going to suffer that one way or other whether or not the government of the day plans to manage it. If we keep trying to borrow 100bn a year forever the markets will rapidly move the interest rates for the UK. Labour created a monstrous structural deficit over 13 years. Did they think this would not have consequences? So far the UK has 'bravely' made the easy choices about cutting the deficit back to something survivable. Now come the harder choices.

    Thanks Gordon and Ed. NOT.

    Patrick, I do not dispute the necessity of it. I really cannot see a situation where the UK can realistically look to generate more than £700bn in taxes a year in anything like normal times. We didn't even manage this in the biggest bubble any bunch of incompetents has ever created.

    I do worry, however, about the politics. When you think about the ridiculous fuss and upset caused by the ending of the spare room subsidy or the so called granny tax you realise how profoundly orientated towards higher spending our media and indeed our electorate are. These were both tiny drops in the ocean compared with what is coming.

    Fully agree - you are right. The underlying problem is that we have over the last 15 years or so fostered a deeply entrenched entitlements culture. A culture that pays no heed whatever to economic realities or necessities. It's terribly easy to berate a Tory chancellor. So they do. When Miliband is PM in 2015, as I think he will be, then who will they scream at?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    FPT. I see all the lying Tories ran away when challenged on their arithmetic skills.

    running with the latest howler from the no camp on its Yougov commissioned poll.
    29% want the status quo, 30% want Independence and 32% want more powers.
    Lying Tories manage to get 29% support for NO to be equal to 70%, LOL, surprise surprise it is neck and neck and the majority of the Don't Knows want more powers.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited January 2014
    AveryLP said:

    "UKIP are pleased to announce the appointment of Patrick O’Flynn as the party’s new Director of Communications.

    Patrick will leave his job at The Daily Express newspaper as Chief Political Commentator in February to help oversee UKIP's campaign for the 2014 European and UK local elections."

    http://www.ukip.org/newsroom/news/1106-ukip-announce-new-director-of-communications

    I guess this means that UKIP will be announcing a cure for Alzheimers and arthritis in their 2015 GE manifesto.

    Poor AveryLP. He can now see the UKIP shark ready to bite the Tory tail off. All he can do in defence is to put up a puerile joke about diseases that are increasingly affecting the old.

    Tut, tut!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Talk about how the media look after their own. While I very much enjoyed Simon Hoggart's articles and am very saddened to hear of his early death, it's quite disgraceful that the media seem to have decided en masse not to mention his most newsworthy escapade:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1479401/Third-man-confesses-in-the-Quinn-affair.html
  • ...and I'm sorry I called you a fu<kwit the other day....

    Should always remember to play the ball not the man....
  • I'm back!!

    TSE..... once too often to the Spurs well? I see Tim blamed the small size of our available squad for the defeat...............smallest in the PL I think he's reported as saying......

    Looking forward to the first 2014 YouGov as well..... must be time soon for a thread on the LD 2010 turned Lab voters.... the new Ed is Crap core topic.

    It was worth it, for Theo's response to the Spurs taunts.

    I am thinking of backing Palace to beat you lot on Saturday.

    At least you're not Manchester United.
    What did he do?

    I agree Palace at 10-1 and our poor home record, 'tiny' squad....
    He did this

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2534272/Spurs-supporters-dock-shameful-attack-Walcott-derby-defeat.html
  • rcs1000 said:

    Hey guys, stop worrying about the deficit. As UKIP has stated on the website, we're going to have a Sovereign Wealth Fund!

    And has already been pointed out to you, if the Tories are to be believed then the deficit will have gone by the time the Shale Gas industry is in a position to provide the funds for that Sovereign Wealth Fund.

    Of course if you believe that we will not get rid of the deficit in the next decade or so then you might have a point. Depends how much you believe the Chancellor.
  • I'm back!!

    TSE..... once too often to the Spurs well? I see Tim blamed the small size of our available squad for the defeat...............smallest in the PL I think he's reported as saying......

    Looking forward to the first 2014 YouGov as well..... must be time soon for a thread on the LD 2010 turned Lab voters.... the new Ed is Crap core topic.

    It was worth it, for Theo's response to the Spurs taunts.

    I am thinking of backing Palace to beat you lot on Saturday.

    At least you're not Manchester United.
    What did he do?

    I agree Palace at 10-1 and our poor home record, 'tiny' squad....
    He did this

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2534272/Spurs-supporters-dock-shameful-attack-Walcott-derby-defeat.html
    Proof that Londoners have more money than sense- there are quid coins in there!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    This looks fun.

    Osborne to ban high earners ( £60k plus ) from council housing. Allegedly 1.69 million houses to be freed up.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2534337/More-hard-choices-needed-secure-long-term-recovery-says-Osborne-Chancellor-warns-spending-cuts-needed.html
  • rcs1000 said:

    Hey guys, stop worrying about the deficit. As UKIP has stated on the website, we're going to have a Sovereign Wealth Fund!

    And has already been pointed out to you, if the Tories are to be believed then the deficit will have gone by the time the Shale Gas industry is in a position to provide the funds for that Sovereign Wealth Fund.

    Of course if you believe that we will not get rid of the deficit in the next decade or so then you might have a point. Depends how much you believe the Chancellor.
    Hang on a minute , isn't a Sovereign Wealth fund all about a state buying up private assets? Why is such nationalisation a flagship policy of a supposedly free market party like UKIP? IT just shows UKIP will say anything to keep popularist
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @Alanbrooke

    Its a joy to see you still upholding traditional values from the heart of Warwickshire too, Mr. Brooke. Wishing you and yours health and prosperity in 2014. I look forward to the debates to come in what I think will be a momentous year.

    @TSE

    Good to see you, metaphorically speaking, again. Still wearing those red shoes?




  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    Hey guys, stop worrying about the deficit. As UKIP has stated on the website, we're going to have a Sovereign Wealth Fund!

    And has already been pointed out to you, if the Tories are to be believed then the deficit will have gone by the time the Shale Gas industry is in a position to provide the funds for that Sovereign Wealth Fund.

    Of course if you believe that we will not get rid of the deficit in the next decade or so then you might have a point. Depends how much you believe the Chancellor.
    Firstly, deficit is not the same as debt. Countries with SWFs like Norway, Kuwait, Singapore and Abu Dhabi have negligible levels of government debt. (Norway's is highest at 28% or so of GDP.) We'll be north of 100% by the time that the deficit is eliminated. Do you really think the priority is buying shares rather than paying down the national debt?

    Secondly, even taking incredibly optimistic assumptions (30% of UK gas consumption, a $2/mcf tax) the amounts raised would not create any meaningful SWF.

    Thirdly, governments (even UKIP ones) have a tendency to spend more money than they plan to.

    If UKIP policy was "after the financial situation of the country has improved, and we have reduced the national debt to the level it was before the mismanagement of the Labour and Conservative administrations of the last decade, we will consider the creation of a SWF" then it would be sensible. But it would also be an aspiration for 2035, not 2020.

    Furthermore, that there are pages devoted to the SWF, and to gay marriage on the UKIP website, but not one devoted to education or the tax and benefits system suggests - at the very least - some bizarre priorities.
  • I'm back!!

    TSE..... once too often to the Spurs well? I see Tim blamed the small size of our available squad for the defeat...............smallest in the PL I think he's reported as saying......

    Looking forward to the first 2014 YouGov as well..... must be time soon for a thread on the LD 2010 turned Lab voters.... the new Ed is Crap core topic.

    It was worth it, for Theo's response to the Spurs taunts.

    I am thinking of backing Palace to beat you lot on Saturday.

    At least you're not Manchester United.
    What did he do?

    I agree Palace at 10-1 and our poor home record, 'tiny' squad....
    He did this

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2534272/Spurs-supporters-dock-shameful-attack-Walcott-derby-defeat.html
    Proof that Londoners have more money than sense- there are quid coins in there!
    Spurs fans are tame compared to Barcelona fans.

    When Luis Figo returned to the Nou Camp as a Real Madrid player, Barca fans threw at him, inter alia, a battery (which was still inside the radio) and a Pig's head

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWJZcPSJyIs
This discussion has been closed.