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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB 2013 Prediction Competition Results

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited January 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB 2013 Prediction Competition Results

Compared to the busy 2012, 2013 was a fairly quiet year, and not a great one for betting, as Our Genial Host has pointed out. There were just three UK by-elections, but of more significance was UKIP’s strong showing in the May locals. Abroad, Israel, Italy, Iran, Australia, and Germany were probably the most noteworthy elections.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Congratulations to ‘No offence Alan’ and runners up.

    A worthy winner and smart arse. ; )
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Second. Booooo!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567
    Nice work guys, and many thanks to Double Carpet for doing it. Some evidence there of people betting with their hearts, maybe. I didn't take part because I wasn't sure I wanted my restrained predictions for Labour gains to be public - turns out I would be been underestimating anyway.
  • I was told discussion ID is required to comment?
  • I will repost when my ID is confirmed. Did not know it was rescinded.
  • I was told discussion ID is required to comment?

    I will repost when my ID is confirmed. Did not know it was rescinded.

    If you can post, surely your ID is ok?

  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    I haven`t got a clue about international politics.

    It is just a suggestion to separate domestic and international politics for next year as it is just guesswork to decide who comes to power in countries one is not familiar with.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Had a go !
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    I see I didn't enter. But we sdhall see for this time next year.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469

    I will repost when my ID is confirmed. Did not know it was rescinded.

    Vanilla has this annoying habit of apparently logging me out (*). Sometimes doing a page refresh re-logs me in, at others I have to log in manually. It's usually when there's a new thread hanging about. I've also had some strange user messages on a few occasions, which, as is my habit, I ignored and a reload fixed things.

    I don't think it's anything to do with the site admins.

    (*) Latest Chrome on Win7.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    edited January 2014
    "while only 80% correctly predicted Maria Miller to remain at Culture."
    I thought she was caught bang to rights in an expenses scandal.

    Can anyone enlighten me whatever happened to that?
  • WTF? I'm the top political tipster of 2013??
  • Great NoOffenceAlan
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited January 2014
    Skybet is great value on Mendilibar for next West Brom Manager.

    I've got a nice skewed arb going with it and Betfair ^^

    Edit; Skybet's price has gone.

    He is available at 10-1 on Stan James though, layable at 6.4 with Betfair.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2014
    @rcs1000

    from a couple of threads ago

    You said that the uk would be insane to start a sovereign wealth fund until debt to GDP is at a reasonable level.

    One of the reasons that Norway's works so well is that a proportion of oil revenues flow directly into the fund and the politicians can only spend the 3.5% presumed surplus each year.

    If there was a way to set the fund up, protect it from greedy politicians and build the political consensus to leave it there to fructate that would be great. Essentially a way to get revenues out of politicians hands. You can then use it to invest in infrastructure and/or venture projects (like Investinor) or support local businesses like FSI.

    Edit: appreciate v difficult in parliamentary system w/o written constitution
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369

    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Huzzah for Double Carpet!

    Pretty happy to be in the top 20. Not sure where I got last time, but I think it was about the same.

    Mr. Jessop, well, quite.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369
    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    Who made that tedious little man a knight?

  • Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369

    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    The BBC describe Sir Tony Robinson as a "Labour grandee". Somebody in the Beeb is taking the piss out of the twerp
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Congratulations and well done Alan.

    WTF? I'm the top political tipster of 2013??

  • GeoffM said:

    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369
    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    Who made that tedious little man a knight?

    First we had Hunt throwing a tantrum because someone else had dared to trespass on his area of 'expertise'. Now this bloke feels he has the qualifications to wade in, presumably because he presents that execrable show where they trudge around digging up farmyards.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Now this bloke feels he has the qualifications to wade in, presumably because he presents that execrable show where they trudge around digging up farmyards.

    Presumably because he appeared in the tv show that Gove criticised.
  • smithersjones2013smithersjones2013 Posts: 740
    edited January 2014
    Sunday Afternoon Trivia

    I've done a quick calculation using Ashcroft's poll. If the Tories election performance replicated this poll (63% of 2010 Tories plus 6.1% of all voters switching), the total of remaining 2010 Tory voters (6.75m) plus switchers (1.8m) would give a total of 8.55 million on the same turnout as 2010.

    Needless to say that would be the second lowest Tory figure at an election since the introduction of universal suffrage. Reduce the turnout to 2001 levels and the Tories would be back within 40,000 votes of their 2001 performance.

    The other thing of trivia interest is that it suggests at this point that Cameron has lost 4 million of his 2010 voters. What is it with Tory Prime Ministers and losing 4 million votes these days?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Neil said:

    Now this bloke feels he has the qualifications to wade in, presumably because he presents that execrable show where they trudge around digging up farmyards.

    Presumably because he appeared in the tv show that Gove criticised.
    So someone who dresses up as an alien on Dr Who can now present himself as an authority on time travel?

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    WTF? I'm the top political tipster of 2013??

    Congratulations Alan :)

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    GeoffM said:

    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369
    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    Who made that tedious little man a knight?

    First we had Hunt throwing a tantrum because someone else had dared to trespass on his area of 'expertise'. Now this bloke feels he has the qualifications to wade in, presumably because he presents that execrable show where they trudge around digging up farmyards.
    Even more embarrassing for the Hon "I've got a Doctorate from Cambridge doncha know?" Hunt, the BBC has led with a retired actor, giving HM Shadow Secretary of State for Edukashun, Edukashun, Edukashun, second billing......

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    interesting tidbit from Lord Ashcroft's poll, Labour is the preferred party of the better off.

    "@LordAshcroft POLL

    VOTER INCOME OVER 41K

    #LABOUR 40.48%
    #CONSERVATIVES 39.65%
    #UKIP 11.79%
    #LIBDEMS 8.08%"

    twitter.com/UKELECTIONS2015/statuses/419798984111050752
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    GeoffM said:

    Neil said:

    Now this bloke feels he has the qualifications to wade in, presumably because he presents that execrable show where they trudge around digging up farmyards.

    Presumably because he appeared in the tv show that Gove criticised.
    So someone who dresses up as an alien on Dr Who can now present himself as an authority on time travel?

    Although Blackadder was co-written by Ben Elton, whose uncle was the Tudor historian Geoffrey Elton.

    From Wiki:
    Elton was a staunch admirer of Margaret Thatcher and Winston Churchill. He was also a fierce critic of Marxist historians, who he argued were presenting seriously flawed interpretations of the past.
    Where did his nephew go wrong... ;-)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Elton
  • To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited January 2014
    GeoffM said:

    WTF? I'm the top political tipster of 2013??

    Congratulations Alan :)

    Ditto and congrats to NFA, and I hope 2014 will be a happier one for you on a personal level.

    Anyone know if Allardyce is going to get the sack, or has got the sack?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited January 2014
    FPT - ' ... and of course we will already own 10% of all current UK planes and helicopters as well as ships.'

    It's all very well owning the aircraft, but where do you think they're currently serviced, and by whom? Will Scotland build the necessary maintenance infrastructure from scratch, up north? Renegotiating any existing agreements with third party, private contractors will be interesting too. And then there's pilot retention and training. Plus ground staff. How many of those already based in Scotland are local, or would choose to stay in a depleted air force? Factor in the economy of scale for spares and everything else and those planes will become unaffordable.

    I'd suggest that this is a good starting point with regard to Scottish armed forces, post (hypothetical) independence.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Forces_(Ireland)

    Populations and GDP are similar.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    WTF? I'm the top political tipster of 2013??

    Congratulations and well done!

    You didn't win the "posh fop" word count tho......do you think that might be related?

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Labour's support among working voters, is higher than their support among non-working voters.

    "LORD ASHCROFT POLL

    WORKING VOTER

    LAB 46%
    CON 31%
    UKIP 14%
    LD 9%

    NON WORKING VOTER (INC RETIRED)

    LAB 38%
    CON 32%
    UKIP 21%
    LD 9%"

    twitter.com/UKELECTIONS2015/status/419819129747427330
  • HillmanMinxHillmanMinx Posts: 33
    edited January 2014

    GeoffM said:

    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369
    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    Who made that tedious little man a knight?

    First we had Hunt throwing a tantrum because someone else had dared to trespass on his area of 'expertise'. Now this bloke feels he has the qualifications to wade in, presumably because he presents that execrable show where they trudge around digging up farmyards.
    Even more embarrassing for the Hon "I've got a Doctorate from Cambridge doncha know?" Hunt, the BBC has led with a retired actor, giving HM Shadow Secretary of State for Edukashun, Edukashun, Edukashun, second billing......

    Clearly Tristram Hunt is being effective because he's got the PB Hodges rattled - really rattled. You are so full of hate that this is the only explanation for these ludicrous posts.

    Get this into your little heads. Gove is a vote loser Hunt is a vote winner and you know it.

  • GeoffM said:

    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369
    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    Who made that tedious little man a knight?

    First we had Hunt throwing a tantrum because someone else had dared to trespass on his area of 'expertise'. Now this bloke feels he has the qualifications to wade in, presumably because he presents that execrable show where they trudge around digging up farmyards.
    Even more embarrassing for the Hon "I've got a Doctorate from Cambridge doncha know?" Hunt, the BBC has led with a retired actor, giving HM Shadow Secretary of State for Edukashun, Edukashun, Edukashun, second billing......

    Also interesting is how this furore has resurrected the career of Alan 'Alistair Campbell offered me a peerage doncha know' Clark. Prior to this weekend, his credentials as a historian were utterly discredited.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    No; this is mixing up fact and fiction.

    John Nettles might be most famous for Bergerac but that doesn't make him an expert on Jersey law enforcement.

    If a policing scandal erupted in the Channel Islands today, do you think the first thought of the editor of the Jersey Evening Post would be to 'phone up Nettles and ask for his comment? Do you think Nettles would be picking up the 'phone to the Guardian to offer it unsolicited?

    Of course not. Robinson was a two-bit actor in a defunct series who had a running gag of being stupid and smelly. On that basis Worzel Gummidge has a valid view on the CAP.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    'Hunt is a vote winner'

    Arf.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited January 2014

    GeoffM said:

    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369
    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    Who made that tedious little man a knight?

    First we had Hunt throwing a tantrum because someone else had dared to trespass on his area of 'expertise'. Now this bloke feels he has the qualifications to wade in, presumably because he presents that execrable show where they trudge around digging up farmyards.
    Even more embarrassing for the Hon "I've got a Doctorate from Cambridge doncha know?" Hunt, the BBC has led with a retired actor, giving HM Shadow Secretary of State for Edukashun, Edukashun, Edukashun, second billing......

    You are so full of hate that this is the only explanation for thiese ludicrous posts.
    Edukashun....Edukashun...Edukashun,,....

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Hunt is a vote winner and you know it.

    I'm sure Jeremy will appreciate your vote of confidence.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    interesting tidbit from Lord Ashcroft's poll, Labour is the preferred party of the better off.

    "@LordAshcroft POLL

    VOTER INCOME OVER 41K

    #LABOUR 40.48%
    #CONSERVATIVES 39.65%
    #UKIP 11.79%
    #LIBDEMS 8.08%"

    twitter.com/UKELECTIONS2015/statuses/419798984111050752

    Presumably that just reflects high wages in public sector employment?

    @TFS Gove was criticising the *use* made of the programme, not Blackadder itself
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Gove wasn't criticising Blackadder as entertainment......
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. M, to be fair, the PQ17 documentary was excellent.

    Speaking of historians, I think there's an Egyptian series starting at 9pm on Thursday (BBC4). I'm sure I've seen the chap doing it before. Probably did the Roman art double-parter.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited January 2014
    Since we are still on history, anyone else pick up the 99p Hastings or Thatcher biog on Kindle?
  • To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Gove wasn't criticising Blackadder as entertainment......
    Ah, ok.
    I still don't think you can criticise Robinson too much. He's a "Labour Grandee", and Baldrick is the only thing he's gonna get remembered for, so he's bound to try and stick the boot into a Tory minister.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Gove wasn't criticising Blackadder as entertainment......
    Ah, ok.
    I still don't think you can criticise Robinson too much. He's a "Labour Grandee", and Baldrick is the only thing he's gonna get remembered for, so he's bound to try and stick the boot into a Tory minister.
    Time Team has been running for decades.

  • To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Gove wasn't criticising Blackadder as entertainment......
    No, he was criticising it on the entirely spurious and incorrect grounds that it gave a false impression of the war and was responsible for changing people's perceptions of history. It was a stupid and ignorant comment by Gove which he compounded by trying to make out it was some sort of leftist plot.

    It showed an ignorance both of the Great War and of the historians who have written about the event over the last 70 years.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited January 2014
    Charles said:

    interesting tidbit from Lord Ashcroft's poll, Labour is the preferred party of the better off.

    "@LordAshcroft POLL

    VOTER INCOME OVER 41K

    #LABOUR 40.48%
    #CONSERVATIVES 39.65%
    #UKIP 11.79%
    #LIBDEMS 8.08%"

    twitter.com/UKELECTIONS2015/statuses/419798984111050752

    Presumably that just reflects high wages in public sector employment?

    @TFS Gove was criticising the *use* made of the programme, not Blackadder itself
    The data doesn't support that Tweet. See here page 192

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Blueprint-4-Full-tables.pdf
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    Labour commits to triple-lock for pensions too.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25614562

    The only reason the pensioners are getting guaranteed 2.5%increase in pensions is because they vote.And people say there is no use in casting a vote.
  • GeoffM said:

    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369
    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    Who made that tedious little man a knight?

    First we had Hunt throwing a tantrum because someone else had dared to trespass on his area of 'expertise'. Now this bloke feels he has the qualifications to wade in, presumably because he presents that execrable show where they trudge around digging up farmyards.
    Seems you know as much about archaeology as you do about history. Sweet FA.

    For the record, having met Robinson on a couple of occasions and worked on a couple of Time Team digs I can safely say I can't stand the guy personally or politically. But the one thing he and the team did do was to transform archaeology in Britain over the last couple of decades in a hugely positive way. After Mrs Thatcher he is probably the most important non-archaeologist to have changed the subject in the post war period.
  • Seems you know as much about archaeology as you do about history. Sweet FA

    I studied under Christopher Tilley. Did you?
  • I am just waiting for Gove to attack Allo Allo for giving making the whole British nation believe the French resistance were all attractive females and the Germans were all gay and drove round in little tanks.
  • Seems you know as much about archaeology as you do about history. Sweet FA

    I studied under Christopher Tilley. Did you?
    No I studied under Dr John Evans. I am currently working with Prof Nick Barton of Oxford.
  • Seems you know as much about archaeology as you do about history. Sweet FA

    I studied under Christopher Tilley. Did you?
    No I studied under Dr John Evans. I am currently working with Prof Nick Barton of Oxford.
    Yes, I know Nick Barton too. Give him my regards.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469

    GeoffM said:

    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369
    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    Who made that tedious little man a knight?

    First we had Hunt throwing a tantrum because someone else had dared to trespass on his area of 'expertise'. Now this bloke feels he has the qualifications to wade in, presumably because he presents that execrable show where they trudge around digging up farmyards.
    Seems you know as much about archaeology as you do about history. Sweet FA.

    For the record, having met Robinson on a couple of occasions and worked on a couple of Time Team digs I can safely say I can't stand the guy personally or politically. But the one thing he and the team did do was to transform archaeology in Britain over the last couple of decades in a hugely positive way. After Mrs Thatcher he is probably the most important non-archaeologist to have changed the subject in the post war period.
    It's probably right to say that Time Team massively changed the public's perception of archaeology for the better. To say it was down to Robinson is taking his role as front-man far too far.

    Time Team's magic was in the ensemble cast of archaeologists, especially Phil Harding and Mick Aston, along with Ainsworth and Gater. People (excluding Aston for the obvious, sad reason) who I'd happily go down to the pub for a pint with.

    The series went downhill slightly when they tampered with that cast.

    Oh, and Francis Pryor has a good blog if you're a Fenlander, a pleasant mix of archaeology and gardening. I got one of his books for Christmas, but it's still on my to-read pile.

    http://pryorfrancis.wordpress.com/
  • Seems you know as much about archaeology as you do about history. Sweet FA

    I studied under Christopher Tilley. Did you?
    No I studied under Dr John Evans. I am currently working with Prof Nick Barton of Oxford.
    Yes, I know Nick Barton too. Give him my regards.
    I will do. He and Simon Colcutt are heavily involved in the project my unit are running on the Palaeolithic Open Field site at Farndon. It is turning out to be probably the most extensive Late Upper Pal. site in Britain. Not sure where you are based but if you want to come take a look let me know.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    I am just waiting for Gove to attack Allo Allo for giving making the whole British nation believe the French resistance were all attractive females and the Germans were all gay and drove round in little tanks.

    Are they using 'Allo Allo' as a teaching aid in schools?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Oh dear. That might have torn it. Nige says Enoch was right with 'Rivers of Blood':

    He has isam's vote for life now.
  • Seems you know as much about archaeology as you do about history. Sweet FA

    I studied under Christopher Tilley. Did you?
    No I studied under Dr John Evans. I am currently working with Prof Nick Barton of Oxford.
    Yes, I know Nick Barton too. Give him my regards.
    I will do. He and Simon Colcutt are heavily involved in the project my unit are running on the Palaeolithic Open Field site at Farndon. It is turning out to be probably the most extensive Late Upper Pal. site in Britain. Not sure where you are based but if you want to come take a look let me know.
    Thanks. A bit busy with other ventures these days, but good luck with your findings.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Sounds like this should be a lesson in how the quieter people in the room are often the ones worth listening to.
  • To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Gove wasn't criticising Blackadder as entertainment......
    Ah, ok.
    I still don't think you can criticise Robinson too much. He's a "Labour Grandee", and Baldrick is the only thing he's gonna get remembered for, so he's bound to try and stick the boot into a Tory minister.
    Time Team has been running for decades.

    So? Robinson=Baldrick.

  • Socrates said:

    Sounds like this should be a lesson in how the quieter people in the room are often the ones worth listening to.

    Woohoo!!!!

    Socrates. Missed you terribly old chap.

    :-)
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322


    Woohoo!!!!

    Socrates. Missed you terribly old chap.

    :-)

    Thanks. I understand the reason for my leaving has now departed (though I don't know why), so hopefully I'll visit more.

    That said, I may stay away during the week to maintain my newfound productivity!
  • Socrates said:


    Woohoo!!!!

    Socrates. Missed you terribly old chap.

    :-)

    Thanks. I understand the reason for my leaving has now departed (though I don't know why), so hopefully I'll visit more.

    That said, I may stay away during the week to maintain my newfound productivity!
    It will be a pleasure to chat with you again over the year. Hope all is well.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Neil said:

    Oh dear. That might have torn it. Nige says Enoch was right with 'Rivers of Blood':

    He has isam's vote for life now.
    Haha well said Nigel... and Neil!

    Anyone wishing to understand the motivation behind that speech should watch his hour long interview/argument with David Frost. Its on youtube and is a must see for anyone interested in politics, especially the subject of immigration
  • BBC News sensation. Militant teachers and Labour grandee Robinson don't like Gove. Amazing reporting again....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Mis-step from Farage on the Enoch Powell stuff. It puts him and UKIP too close to the BNP ideologically. It will also further disenchant right of centre non-white people who may consider voting UKIP in 2015.

    It also makes it easy for the Tories to get on his back about racism and painting UKIP as BNP-lite. Farage might think that is an advantage as it feeds into his "LibLabCon are all crap" world-view, but it will turn a lot of UKIP-leaning Tories off. Depends on how hard the Tories go on this, if Crosby gets involved Farage may have to make a u-turn on it or backtrack/clarify.
  • MaxPB said:

    Mis-step from Farage on the Enoch Powell stuff. It puts him and UKIP too close to the BNP ideologically. It will also further disenchant right of centre non-white people who may consider voting UKIP in 2015.

    It also makes it easy for the Tories to get on his back about racism and painting UKIP as BNP-lite. Farage might think that is an advantage as it feeds into his "LibLabCon are all crap" world-view, but it will turn a lot of UKIP-leaning Tories off. Depends on how hard the Tories go on this, if Crosby gets involved Farage may have to make a u-turn on it or backtrack/clarify.

    It does sound like a dastardly trick they played on Farage: reading out unattributed Powell quotations and asking him if he agreed. What next? Extracts from Mein Kampf and asking Miliband to comment? That said, Farage should have been savvy enough to spot such an obvious booby trap.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,904
    Does anyone else think that Cameron's promise is exactly the sort of promise that politicians should almost be forbidden to make? I don't particularly foresee that the terms will cause great trouble but they are precisely the sort of terms that do occasionally lead to great trouble.

    Unfortunate though it is, we should be making no promises whatsoever on pensions. The unfunded liabilities are very much a danger. Such unfunded promises really can't be allowed to drag down the financial position of the currently productive members of society. The risks of all this are small (I hope), but surely in an age of the OBR we should expect some self-imposed responsibility in terms of political promises of the financial kind.

    One can only hope that the motivation behind this promise is simply electioneering of the simple-minded kind, rather than and attempt to lure Labour into something that will make their usual financial disaster all the more so if they are elected.

    Tory though I am (and I generally like Cameron) this seems really quite stupid.
  • MaxPB said:

    Mis-step from Farage on the Enoch Powell stuff. It puts him and UKIP too close to the BNP ideologically. It will also further disenchant right of centre non-white people who may consider voting UKIP in 2015.

    It also makes it easy for the Tories to get on his back about racism and painting UKIP as BNP-lite. Farage might think that is an advantage as it feeds into his "LibLabCon are all crap" world-view, but it will turn a lot of UKIP-leaning Tories off. Depends on how hard the Tories go on this, if Crosby gets involved Farage may have to make a u-turn on it or backtrack/clarify.

    This was the interview ;

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R1_YEYOWYk8

    Perfectly reasonable IMO.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MaxPB said:

    Mis-step from Farage on the Enoch Powell stuff. It puts him and UKIP too close to the BNP ideologically. It will also further disenchant right of centre non-white people who may consider voting UKIP in 2015.

    It also makes it easy for the Tories to get on his back about racism and painting UKIP as BNP-lite. Farage might think that is an advantage as it feeds into his "LibLabCon are all crap" world-view, but it will turn a lot of UKIP-leaning Tories off. Depends on how hard the Tories go on this, if Crosby gets involved Farage may have to make a u-turn on it or backtrack/clarify.

    He didn't go out of his way to say it though did he?

    He was asked / tricked into agreeing with a statement that he was obviously going to agree with, then horror of horrors, it turned out to be from...

    ...the cleverest politician of the last 50 years!

    Most people who might / do vote UKIP would agree with it as well I would think

    What it should do is show how far away from the NF Enoch Powell was. The NF base their opposition to immigration on the belief that non whites are inferior to whites. Enoch Powell never said anything of the sort, and almost certainly never believed it.

    So sad that his name is bandied around with the likes of Nick Griffin and the National Front.

    Farage has long been an Enoch fan, he wrote about him quite a lot in his book "Flying Free".

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    SeanT said:

    Here's a thing.

    About three weeks ago I sounded off on Twitter, laughing at the Daily Express for predicting that "a series of frenzied storms are charging towards Britain, just in time for the Christmas holidays"

    THEY WERE RIGHT

    The Daily Express was RIGHT.

    I confess myself discombobulated. And David Icke was right about Jimmy Savile.

    Hmpft!

    Like a stopped clock the Express is occasionally right.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,904


    Perfectly reasonable IMO.


    Until recently I hadn't appreciated how unfairly Powell has been treated by posterity. His famous speech has almost become a by-word for racism. I've always known that this was overblown, and that he was trying to express a difficult idea and didn't manage to negotiate the minefield. What I hadn't appreciated was what a remarkably clever and generally wise man he was.


  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Well, it wasn't really his piece of work, was it? He was an actor in it. The work was created by the writers. Gove said nothing (I assume) about his performance, which was very good - but irrelevant to the debate.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567
    SeanT said:

    ££ Sunday Times YouGov

    "By two to one, voters want tougher regulation of the BBC to curb waste and provide more balanced news, rather than new rules to limit power of intelligence agencies to monitor calls and emails"

    That's a BAD result for the BBC: people trust MI5 over the Beeb.

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Society/article1359547.ece

    I don't have paywall access, but it sounds a peculiar question. "Would you rather regulate the BBC or limit MI5's telephone interception?" Would you rather have a year's supply of ice cream or HS2? How about a glass of Scotch or a nice walk? What if people want both or neither?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Omnium said:


    Perfectly reasonable IMO.


    Until recently I hadn't appreciated how unfairly Powell has been treated by posterity. His famous speech has almost become a by-word for racism. I've always known that this was overblown, and that he was trying to express a difficult idea and didn't manage to negotiate the minefield. What I hadn't appreciated was what a remarkably clever and generally wise man he was.


    Watch the interview with Frost if you can Ominium, different class

  • Cyclefree said:


    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Well, it wasn't really his piece of work, was it? He was an actor in it. The work was created by the writers. Gove said nothing (I assume) about his performance, which was very good - but irrelevant to the debate.

    Seriously, why are you all of excised by Robinson? You can't possibly think of Blackadder, and not think of Baldrick. It's his Big Thing. Of course he's going to wade in against a Tory minister. And none of it matters!

  • Cyclefree said:


    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Well, it wasn't really his piece of work, was it? He was an actor in it. The work was created by the writers. Gove said nothing (I assume) about his performance, which was very good - but irrelevant to the debate.

    If anyone has ever seen the programmes about the making of comedy shows such as Blackadder they will know there was a huge amount of input from the actors. The scripts as they were finally seen on television were usually a very long way from those as presented to the actors at the start of rehearsals. This applied to many of the great comedies of the past and was very much the case with Blackadder.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567
    GeoffM said:

    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369
    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    Who made that tedious little man a knight?

    David Cameron (2013).

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Cyclefree said:


    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Well, it wasn't really his piece of work, was it? He was an actor in it. The work was created by the writers. Gove said nothing (I assume) about his performance, which was very good - but irrelevant to the debate.

    Seriously, why are you all of excised by Robinson? You can't possibly think of Blackadder, and not think of Baldrick. It's his Big Thing. Of course he's going to wade in against a Tory minister. And none of it matters!

    I can't think of Dr Who without thinking of Karen Gillan but I don't expect her to be given a platform alongside the Astronomer Royal in a debate about galaxy formation.

  • SeanT said:


    The most popular policy in the UK FA Cup final of policies is "preventing immigrants from accessing benefits for two years", which beat "free care for the elderly".

    Clearly the answer is to propose free care for the elderly financed by preventing immigrants from accessing benefits for two years.

    I think we've just written the Labour manifesto.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Where is our country on immigrants if Farage is not damaged by the Powell ambush?

    makes you wonder
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    SeanT said:



    I reckon that's an intriguing result, and focus group polling along similar lines is no doubt the reason Ed Miliband is banging on about migrants and money in the IoSunday today.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-ed-miliband-will-block-cheap-foreign-staff-loophole-if-labour-wins-in-2015-9039194.html

    I'm not quite sure what "loophole" that is trying to close.

    * some agency staff are paid less than employees, some more, depending on the industry

    * in any case you can't pay less than the minimum wage

    * if you are recruiting only from Romania, say, that is prima facie indirect racial discrimination and the Government should not be "working with businesses" it should be reporting them to the appropriate prosecuting authority.

    So it seems like a load of hot air from ed Milli.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    think we've just written the Labour manifesto.

    the 3 month rule for Roms and Bulgs was worse than not having any rules at all.

    It was clearly a sop by someone who wanted there to be no rules at all, but was backed into a corner.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    GeoffM said:

    Actor and former member of Labour's NEC attacks Conservative minister.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369
    In other news, bears do defecate in the woods.

    Who made that tedious little man a knight?

    David Cameron (2013).

    Did Cameron really think to himself one morning in the shower "...hmm, how about a knighthood for that bloke on the tv; the dirty one with a thing about turnips, old wasshisname?..."

    It would have been a Labour nomination to the relevant committee as you well know.



  • GeoffM said:

    Cyclefree said:


    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Well, it wasn't really his piece of work, was it? He was an actor in it. The work was created by the writers. Gove said nothing (I assume) about his performance, which was very good - but irrelevant to the debate.

    Seriously, why are you all of excised by Robinson? You can't possibly think of Blackadder, and not think of Baldrick. It's his Big Thing. Of course he's going to wade in against a Tory minister. And none of it matters!

    I can't think of Dr Who without thinking of Karen Gillan but I don't expect her to be given a platform alongside the Astronomer Royal in a debate about galaxy formation.

    Look, I'm not a fan of Robinson, but the guy is perfectly entitled to talk about the programme that really made him, especially when it's been commented on by a minister.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    @Socrates - nice to see you back.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Socrates said:

    Sounds like this should be a lesson in how the quieter people in the room are often the ones worth listening to.

    Good grief Mr Socrates has re-emerged ! Welcome back sir.
  • Socrates said:

    Sounds like this should be a lesson in how the quieter people in the room are often the ones worth listening to.

    Good grief Mr Socrates has re-emerged ! Welcome back sir.
    We just need tim back, now.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Socrates said:

    Sounds like this should be a lesson in how the quieter people in the room are often the ones worth listening to.

    Good grief Mr Socrates has re-emerged ! Welcome back sir.
    We just need tim back, now.

    You know he's lurking out there TFS.

    You just need to find the right spark to set off the inferno - job for a fireman ;-)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GdnPolitics: Nigel Farage backs 'basic principle' of Enoch Powell's immigration warning http://t.co/udETMhZYgQ
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Socrates said:

    Sounds like this should be a lesson in how the quieter people in the room are often the ones worth listening to.

    Good grief Mr Socrates has re-emerged ! Welcome back sir.
    We just need tim back, now.

    Speak for yourself, not "we". I'd be delighted if he never darkened the PB door again.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Cyclefree said:


    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Well, it wasn't really his piece of work, was it? He was an actor in it. The work was created by the writers. Gove said nothing (I assume) about his performance, which was very good - but irrelevant to the debate.

    Seriously, why are you all of excised by Robinson? You can't possibly think of Blackadder, and not think of Baldrick. It's his Big Thing. Of course he's going to wade in against a Tory minister. And none of it matters!

    Agreed. It doesn't matter and Gove was silly in raising the Blackadder issue in the first place. I was more trying to point out that writers are key to the creation of a programme (whatever the input of actors, as per Richard Tyndall's comment below) and they might feel a bit miffed at being passed over as if the idea, the jokes and the characters came from the actors alone.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SeanT said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    Mis-step from Farage on the Enoch Powell stuff. It puts him and UKIP too close to the BNP ideologically. It will also further disenchant right of centre non-white people who may consider voting UKIP in 2015.

    It also makes it easy for the Tories to get on his back about racism and painting UKIP as BNP-lite. Farage might think that is an advantage as it feeds into his "LibLabCon are all crap" world-view, but it will turn a lot of UKIP-leaning Tories off. Depends on how hard the Tories go on this, if Crosby gets involved Farage may have to make a u-turn on it or backtrack/clarify.

    He didn't go out of his way to say it though did he?

    He was asked / tricked into agreeing with a statement that he was obviously going to agree with, then horror of horrors, it turned out to be from...

    ...the cleverest politician of the last 50 years!

    Most people who might / do vote UKIP would agree with it as well I would think

    What it should do is show how far away from the NF Enoch Powell was. The NF base their opposition to immigration on the belief that non whites are inferior to whites. Enoch Powell never said anything of the sort, and almost certainly never believed it.

    So sad that his name is bandied around with the likes of Nick Griffin and the National Front.

    Farage has long been an Enoch fan, he wrote about him quite a lot in his book "Flying Free".

    Powell was a brilliant but tragic figure. He could have been a great leader, a great PM perhaps, but he swooned at the altar of populism. The Rivers of Blood speech was clearly racist, and meant to be racist, and designed to inflame. He deserved much of the career-destroying infamy he reaped - because he positively sought it out.

    "Rivers of Blood" was a very stupid move by a very clever man. I'm still not sure why he did it.
    He probably did it to get at Edward Heath.

    But I don't believe he was motivated by racism. He made a judgement on human nature, namely that injecting legislation into an atmosphere already filled with anxiety over immigration would cause an explosion of feelings, and the best way to avoid that was to limit the number of immigrants.

    He used examples of racial tension at the time to illustrate how bad it already was in places like Wolverhampton, illustrations that needed to be drawn to luvvies who thought mass immigration was a great idea as it didn't affect them.

    Have you seen the Frost interview? Its fantastic viewing
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    He has not got a new idea to save his life. Not a clue.

    Oh, come on. Remember "predistribution"?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    MaxPB said:

    if Crosby gets involved Farage may have to make a u-turn on it or backtrack/clarify.

    Presumably to clarify he is talking about Muslims again to be on the same page as Crosby.
    Star Etheridge ‏@star_pumpkin

    PM's new fixer in racist rant at Muslims: Foul-mouthed abuse by campaign chief re… #MailOnline http://bit.ly/UO4fhX pic.twitter.com/X4ZqXVSt
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322



    We just need tim back, now.

    Trying to get rid of me so fast?
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Well, it wasn't really his piece of work, was it? He was an actor in it. The work was created by the writers. Gove said nothing (I assume) about his performance, which was very good - but irrelevant to the debate.

    Seriously, why are you all of excised by Robinson? You can't possibly think of Blackadder, and not think of Baldrick. It's his Big Thing. Of course he's going to wade in against a Tory minister. And none of it matters!

    Agreed. It doesn't matter and Gove was silly in raising the Blackadder issue in the first place. I was more trying to point out that writers are key to the creation of a programme (whatever the input of actors, as per Richard Tyndall's comment below) and they might feel a bit miffed at being passed over as if the idea, the jokes and the characters came from the actors alone.

    I think that is a fair point. I find it interesting that the first series of Blackadder which was co-written by Richard Curtis and Rowan Atkinson suffered from a bit too much of the 'student gag' atmosphere, rather like a historical version of the Young Ones. It was only when Ben Elton came on board as the second principle writer alongside Curtis and they made some major changes to characters that the series really took off.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    Populus had Lab lead down to 2% on Monday before Christmas - poll not reported on UKPR (or here I don't think):

    37/35/12/9

    http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Online-VI-23-12-2013-3.pdf
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    To be fair, Robinson is responding to a direct critism by Gove on his most famous piece of work, you can't really blame him.

    Well, it wasn't really his piece of work, was it? He was an actor in it. The work was created by the writers. Gove said nothing (I assume) about his performance, which was very good - but irrelevant to the debate.

    Seriously, why are you all of excised by Robinson? You can't possibly think of Blackadder, and not think of Baldrick. It's his Big Thing. Of course he's going to wade in against a Tory minister. And none of it matters!

    Agreed. It doesn't matter and Gove was silly in raising the Blackadder issue in the first place. I was more trying to point out that writers are key to the creation of a programme (whatever the input of actors, as per Richard Tyndall's comment below) and they might feel a bit miffed at being passed over as if the idea, the jokes and the characters came from the actors alone.

    I think that is a fair point. I find it interesting that the first series of Blackadder which was co-written by Richard Curtis and Rowan Atkinson suffered from a bit too much of the 'student gag' atmosphere, rather like a historical version of the Young Ones. It was only when Ben Elton came on board as the second principle writer alongside Curtis and they made some major changes to characters that the series really took off.
    I remember watching BlackAdder II when I was 10 and thinking it was the funniest thing Id ever seen.. saved up and bought the video of "The BlackAdder" and was so disappointed I nearly cried!

    In my heart of hearts I only really thought "II" was funny
This discussion has been closed.