“we are (not in any way) banning the words 'mother' or 'father'."
Advising Staff against using the words is just as daft
I know this is the Generation Gap thing, but why?
Using "Parents and Guardians" instead of "Mothers and Father's" doesn't cost anyone anything, and is a little bit kinder to the small number of people who are included by one but excluded by the other.
Nothing is being enforced or banned, but it's just good manners.
Parent and Guardian does not mean the same as Mother and Father.
Indeed, it might be shockingly contentious to say this but absolutely every human alive has a biological mother and father.
But consider who a University might be writing to. The main contexts I can think of are "the adults we should contact when a student has a medical or personal crisis" or "the adults invited to graduation". In those contexts, P+G is more inclusive and accurate than M+F, because it allows for the possibility that a student isn't with their biological parents any more. Which is why schools have used this language for decades.
Now it's possible that there's some secret campaign by the University of Manchester to destroy the nuclear family. The alternative is that the Daily Mail and Toby Young have decided to make a mountain out of something that isn't even a molehill.
I know which one I would bet on.
This is a style guide which University employees themselves requested.
Did all the anti-woke snowflakes get so would up back in the day when they were instructed on when to use yours sincerely or yours faithfully in correspondence ?
Incidentally, am I the only person who hates the common ‘kind regards’ sign off on emails?
Hate it. Its one saving grace is to make clear that if you switch to 'Regards' it means you're really pissed off...
'Thanks,' is the ultimate furious sign off.
Not really, "regards" or "sincerely" are much worse. Thanks can work fine depending on the context.
I've always used "Thanks" but now I wonder who I've offended with that. What should I use instead?
Yours in anticipation.
Just keep being you. We can all only go on our own experiences. If you're not thanking people in a passive aggressive way, I'm sure they're not taking it in a passive aggressive way.
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
It’s thankfully now straightforward. You vaccinate the parents. Which we will have done nationwide very soon, certainly far earlier than the current timetable for lifting restrictions.
The issue with that being that the vaccine is not 100% reliable. So there is still a significant risk.
Of course there will always be some risk but that reduces once everyone has been jabbed. Until then it is as wise to try and act as if you could potentially be a carrier and kill your parents.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
"Vaccine efficacy against COVID-19 requiring hospital admission from 22 days after the first dose was 100% (0 cases in the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 group vs 15 cases in the control group), with a lower bound of the one-sided 97·5% CI of 72·2% (appendix p 5)."
On this basis, they should lift all legally binding restrictions 22 days after all the over 50s are vaccinated. Which very roughly is Easter. I just don’t understand at all the rationale for keeping things going all the way to June, it should be a big bang opening in April.
Because even though the hospitalization rate for those younger than 50 is small, it is not zero. And a small fraction of a very big number is still a very big number.
Your thinking has been warped by a year of quite extraordinary measures. The vaccine programme is not stopping at age 50, the seasons are still marching on and the room for the virus to spread gets ever smaller given increasing immunity (both acquired and vaccine). I don’t say it lightly but the pathetic attitude of this article and your own comment makes me angry.
My attitude is pathetic? I thought it was a legitimate concern that the NHS would be overwhelmed by people being sick if the thing was allowed to let rip?
The fraction of under 50s hospitalised with covid is so tiny and the vaccine programme progressing so quickly that there is no danger at all of the nhs being “overwhelmed” if we opened up in April. Don’t forget a growing chunk of even the under 40s have already had one dose.
What analysis is this based on, or is it just a gut feeling?
The risk of hospitalisation is still quite high for 50-55 year olds but then drops substantially with each age bucket.
So the 50-64 bucket is less than half as likely to need hospital as the 75-84. The risk of hospitalisation almost halves again for the 40s. Meanwhile the mortality rate for that bucket is 95% lower than for the over 75s. The number start to get even more marginal when you get into the 30s band.
Max posted some stats recently on how many in Group 6, NHS/Carers and others under 40 had received one dose. It was a surprisingly high percentage of the age population. I know people in their late 30s who are not in group 6 who received their first dose in the last couple of days.
And that’s without considering the almost non existent case load in much of the country as we head deeper into spring. You could “let rip” fairly happily without hospitalisations much rising from here, and certainly allow the rules from summer 2020 from Easter.
Handicapping businesses and mental health into the summer is cruel.
You could “let rip” fairly happily without hospitalisations much rising from here, and certainly allow the rules from summer 2020 from Easter.
That is only true if there was zero risk of hospitilisation for those who have yet to be vaccinated. Otherwise it will go up, and if there is a "big bang" reopening it will undoubtedly go up quickly given that the group with the least takeup of vaccine will be the ones interacting the most.
You have no evidence that the 30-50s would interact more, or more riskily, than vaccinated over 50s would. Numbers in hospitals with covid are what, 90% down from the peak?
It should not be a controversial view to say that the dragging-out of restrictions to late June is excessively cautious.
Younger people don't socialise more? That's news to me!
And that is precisely what is controversial, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it.
During a pandemic when the vaccine rollout has discrimated by age?
Further, what f***** business is it of yours if a 20 year old wants to socialise, when the risk of excess societal death from covid has been almost eliminated, and those most likely to need medical intervention have received a vaccine which according to the Lancet, has 100% efficacy by that yardstick?
Some people here need to take a long hard look at the way this country treats both its young and its entrepreneur class. And then think about what that’s likely to mean for the fortunes of this country 20 years from now.
The risk of excise death and hospitalisation hasn't been removed yet. This would take vaccination down to, probably 40 or so.
Ok so perhaps two weeks longer than I said, if your goal is no excess death from covid. We’re still talking late April, not May and not June.
The 40-49 cohort vaccination program doesn't start until the middle of April. By the time they are done and have had sufficient time to build protection that will be well into May, which aligns pretty well with the current plan.
A mate has been vaccinated in Zone 2 today: 44 years of age, no underlying health conditions...
"Vaccine efficacy against COVID-19 requiring hospital admission from 22 days after the first dose was 100% (0 cases in the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 group vs 15 cases in the control group), with a lower bound of the one-sided 97·5% CI of 72·2% (appendix p 5)."
On this basis, they should lift all legally binding restrictions 22 days after all the over 50s are vaccinated. Which very roughly is Easter. I just don’t understand at all the rationale for keeping things going all the way to June, it should be a big bang opening in April.
Because even though the hospitalization rate for those younger than 50 is small, it is not zero. And a small fraction of a very big number is still a very big number.
Your thinking has been warped by a year of quite extraordinary measures. The vaccine programme is not stopping at age 50, the seasons are still marching on and the room for the virus to spread gets ever smaller given increasing immunity (both acquired and vaccine). I don’t say it lightly but the pathetic attitude of this article and your own comment makes me angry.
My attitude is pathetic? I thought it was a legitimate concern that the NHS would be overwhelmed by people being sick if the thing was allowed to let rip?
The fraction of under 50s hospitalised with covid is so tiny and the vaccine programme progressing so quickly that there is no danger at all of the nhs being “overwhelmed” if we opened up in April. Don’t forget a growing chunk of even the under 40s have already had one dose.
What analysis is this based on, or is it just a gut feeling?
The risk of hospitalisation is still quite high for 50-55 year olds but then drops substantially with each age bucket.
So the 50-64 bucket is less than half as likely to need hospital as the 75-84. The risk of hospitalisation almost halves again for the 40s. Meanwhile the mortality rate for that bucket is 95% lower than for the over 75s. The number start to get even more marginal when you get into the 30s band.
Max posted some stats recently on how many in Group 6, NHS/Carers and others under 40 had received one dose. It was a surprisingly high percentage of the age population. I know people in their late 30s who are not in group 6 who received their first dose in the last couple of days.
And that’s without considering the almost non existent case load in much of the country as we head deeper into spring. You could “let rip” fairly happily without hospitalisations much rising from here, and certainly allow the rules from summer 2020 from Easter.
Handicapping businesses and mental health into the summer is cruel.
You could “let rip” fairly happily without hospitalisations much rising from here, and certainly allow the rules from summer 2020 from Easter.
That is only true if there was zero risk of hospitilisation for those who have yet to be vaccinated. Otherwise it will go up, and if there is a "big bang" reopening it will undoubtedly go up quickly given that the group with the least takeup of vaccine will be the ones interacting the most.
You have no evidence that the 30-50s would interact more, or more riskily, than vaccinated over 50s would. Numbers in hospitals with covid are what, 90% down from the peak?
It should not be a controversial view to say that the dragging-out of restrictions to late June is excessively cautious.
Younger people don't socialise more? That's news to me!
And that is precisely what is controversial, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it.
During a pandemic when the vaccine rollout has discrimated by age?
Further, what f***** business is it of yours if a 20 year old wants to socialise, when the risk of excess societal death from covid has been almost eliminated, and those most likely to need medical intervention have received a vaccine which according to the Lancet, has 100% efficacy by that yardstick?
Some people here need to take a long hard look at the way this country treats both its young and its entrepreneur class. And then think about what that’s likely to mean for the fortunes of this country 20 years from now.
The risk of excise death and hospitalisation hasn't been removed yet. This would take vaccination down to, probably 40 or so.
Ok so perhaps two weeks longer than I said, if your goal is no excess death from covid. We’re still talking late April, not May and not June.
The 40-49 cohort vaccination program doesn't start until the middle of April. By the time they are done and have had sufficient time to build protection that will be well into May, which aligns pretty well with the current plan.
A mate has been vaccinated in Zone 2 today: 44 years of age, no underlying health conditions...
Some areas are way, way ahead.
Some areas that's due to a lot of vaccine refusal though.
French satire magazine Charlie Hebdo has come under fire for a cartoon which shows the Queen kneeling on Meghan Markle's neck, drawing parallels to the death of George Floyd.
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
You can't, you never could, and you never will. And in the vast majority of cases, for a parent under 65, the result is so what. Covid is 99% survivable.
In return for being allowed to enjoy their youth young people join armed forces, work for low pay, embark on careers and take on the burdens, obligations and responsibilities the previous generations leave. Without question.
IF we change the social contract on them, as what is the most selfish generation in history undoubtedly has, we shouldn't be surprised if they turn around and change it on us.
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
It’s thankfully now straightforward. You vaccinate the parents. Which we will have done nationwide very soon, certainly far earlier than the current timetable for lifting restrictions.
The issue with that being that the vaccine is not 100% reliable. So there is still a significant risk.
Of course there will always be some risk but that reduces once everyone has been jabbed. Until then it is as wise to try and act as if you could potentially be a carrier and kill your parents.
It depends what you mean by reliable. As we have established, Lancet put its efficacy at preventing hospitalisation and death by 100% once the first dose has kicked in.
French satire magazine Charlie Hebdo has come under fire for a cartoon which shows the Queen kneeling on Meghan Markle's neck, drawing parallels to the death of George Floyd.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
"Vaccine efficacy against COVID-19 requiring hospital admission from 22 days after the first dose was 100% (0 cases in the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 group vs 15 cases in the control group), with a lower bound of the one-sided 97·5% CI of 72·2% (appendix p 5)."
On this basis, they should lift all legally binding restrictions 22 days after all the over 50s are vaccinated. Which very roughly is Easter. I just don’t understand at all the rationale for keeping things going all the way to June, it should be a big bang opening in April.
Because even though the hospitalization rate for those younger than 50 is small, it is not zero. And a small fraction of a very big number is still a very big number.
Your thinking has been warped by a year of quite extraordinary measures. The vaccine programme is not stopping at age 50, the seasons are still marching on and the room for the virus to spread gets ever smaller given increasing immunity (both acquired and vaccine). I don’t say it lightly but the pathetic attitude of this article and your own comment makes me angry.
My attitude is pathetic? I thought it was a legitimate concern that the NHS would be overwhelmed by people being sick if the thing was allowed to let rip?
The fraction of under 50s hospitalised with covid is so tiny and the vaccine programme progressing so quickly that there is no danger at all of the nhs being “overwhelmed” if we opened up in April. Don’t forget a growing chunk of even the under 40s have already had one dose.
What analysis is this based on, or is it just a gut feeling?
The risk of hospitalisation is still quite high for 50-55 year olds but then drops substantially with each age bucket.
So the 50-64 bucket is less than half as likely to need hospital as the 75-84. The risk of hospitalisation almost halves again for the 40s. Meanwhile the mortality rate for that bucket is 95% lower than for the over 75s. The number start to get even more marginal when you get into the 30s band.
Max posted some stats recently on how many in Group 6, NHS/Carers and others under 40 had received one dose. It was a surprisingly high percentage of the age population. I know people in their late 30s who are not in group 6 who received their first dose in the last couple of days.
And that’s without considering the almost non existent case load in much of the country as we head deeper into spring. You could “let rip” fairly happily without hospitalisations much rising from here, and certainly allow the rules from summer 2020 from Easter.
Handicapping businesses and mental health into the summer is cruel.
You could “let rip” fairly happily without hospitalisations much rising from here, and certainly allow the rules from summer 2020 from Easter.
That is only true if there was zero risk of hospitilisation for those who have yet to be vaccinated. Otherwise it will go up, and if there is a "big bang" reopening it will undoubtedly go up quickly given that the group with the least takeup of vaccine will be the ones interacting the most.
You have no evidence that the 30-50s would interact more, or more riskily, than vaccinated over 50s would. Numbers in hospitals with covid are what, 90% down from the peak?
It should not be a controversial view to say that the dragging-out of restrictions to late June is excessively cautious.
Younger people don't socialise more? That's news to me!
And that is precisely what is controversial, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it.
During a pandemic when the vaccine rollout has discrimated by age?
Further, what f***** business is it of yours if a 20 year old wants to socialise, when the risk of excess societal death from covid has been almost eliminated, and those most likely to need medical intervention have received a vaccine which according to the Lancet, has 100% efficacy by that yardstick?
Some people here need to take a long hard look at the way this country treats both its young and its entrepreneur class. And then think about what that’s likely to mean for the fortunes of this country 20 years from now.
The risk of excise death and hospitalisation hasn't been removed yet. This would take vaccination down to, probably 40 or so.
Ok so perhaps two weeks longer than I said, if your goal is no excess death from covid. We’re still talking late April, not May and not June.
The 40-49 cohort vaccination program doesn't start until the middle of April. By the time they are done and have had sufficient time to build protection that will be well into May, which aligns pretty well with the current plan.
A mate has been vaccinated in Zone 2 today: 44 years of age, no underlying health conditions...
My 46 year old was vaccinated last week as well
A 47 year old Portuguese football manager was spotted being vaccinated today in Aldersley Stadium, Wolverhampton. No obvious underlying health conditions, although high blood pressure might be on the cards given the way the team's been playing this season.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
The only increase in cases has been in the 0-14 cohort.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
If the testing is alerting families that didn't know they were positive that they are, this could even reduce case rates further.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
You understand that, Wulfrun understands that, most (not all) PBers understand that.
The public does not understand that and the Lockdownistas will deliberately misunderstand it when positive tests start to rise (probably next week). You will be able to countdown the calls to delay the roadmap in units of seconds after the first phantom 'uptick'.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
You understand that, Wulfrun understands that, most (not all) PBers understand that.
The public does not understand that and the Lockdownistas will deliberately misunderstand it when positive tests start to rise (probably next week). You will be able to countdown the calls to delay the roadmap in units of seconds after the first phantom 'uptick'.
Mark my words.
Most importantly SAGE and the Government understand it and are not lockdownistas.
Dont forget there's a five week interval too. A phantom uptick and continued decline in deaths won't cause a postponement.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected or threatened to keep you safe.
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
The only increase in cases positive tests has been in the 0-14 cohort.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
It’s thankfully now straightforward. You vaccinate the parents. Which we will have done nationwide very soon, certainly far earlier than the current timetable for lifting restrictions.
The issue with that being that the vaccine is not 100% reliable. So there is still a significant risk.
Of course there will always be some risk but that reduces once everyone has been jabbed. Until then it is as wise to try and act as if you could potentially be a carrier and kill your parents.
Until there is a 100% reliable vaccine, this will be true. The human race should therefore be in lockdown forever.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t.
Not just nasty, but irrational with it. Big G is now pretty much immune ("I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations"); what he expressly wants, is an end to lockdown. You want to see it continued?
Western Australia I thought was quite conservative and old school.
Doesn't strike me as a left-wing stronghold aka Liverpool.
Maybe rurally, but like every other state, almost everyone lives in big cities. About 75% of WA voters live in Perth. So you have an incumbent during COVID-19 in one of the most successful regions in one of the most successful countries at COVID-19 suppression, in a state in the middle of a 30-year resource boom, where the opposition parties are the federal government. Seems ideal for a landslide in a second-order election.
Chuck in a wildly popular State Premier and an opposition campaign imploding too. PS. Labor has won the rural areas too. In fairness, won pretty much everywhere.
The WA result is obviously good for the state Labor party and reflects a popular state premier.
However I doubt it means much at the Federal level, the latest Australian national poll has the Coalition on 42% and the ALP on 37% on the primary vote and 50% 50% on the 2PP vote.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
Nonsense - being a contrarian is fine, but it doesn't entitle you to be abusive. He's not saying he feels unprotected - he's worried about the national impact.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
You understand that, Wulfrun understands that, most (not all) PBers understand that.
The public does not understand that and the Lockdownistas will deliberately misunderstand it when positive tests start to rise (probably next week). You will be able to countdown the calls to delay the roadmap in units of seconds after the first phantom 'uptick'.
Mark my words.
Most importantly SAGE and the Government understand it and are not lockdownistas.
Dont forget there's a five week interval too. A phantom uptick and continued decline in deaths won't cause a postponement.
I agree with that. But we will still have to endure endless pleading from the Zero Covid psychopaths for weeks until at least Easter I fear. And that will be bad enough!
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
Nonsense - being a contrarian is fine, but it doesn't entitle you to be abusive. He's not saying he feels unprotected - he's worried about the national impact.
If the vulnerable are protected, via vaccination, there is no 'national impact.' There are just cases that have no symptoms or flu like symptoms.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
You understand that, Wulfrun understands that, most (not all) PBers understand that.
The public does not understand that and the Lockdownistas will deliberately misunderstand it when positive tests start to rise (probably next week). You will be able to countdown the calls to delay the roadmap in units of seconds after the first phantom 'uptick'.
Mark my words.
Most importantly SAGE and the Government understand it and are not lockdownistas.
Dont forget there's a five week interval too. A phantom uptick and continued decline in deaths won't cause a postponement.
I agree with that. But we will still have to endure endless pleading from the Zero Covid psychopaths for weeks until at least Easter I fear. And that will be bad enough!
Other than crazy Scottish Devi Sridhar (I think that's her full name now) are there many others?
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected or threatened to keep you safe.
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
Lol - that's rich coming from someone who has expressly refused to take a vaccine when offered because The Man may get your details (which He has anyway). Turns out Big G is more public-spirited than you are.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
Nonsense - being a contrarian is fine, but it doesn't entitle you to be abusive. He's not saying he feels unprotected - he's worried about the national impact.
If the vulnerable are protected, via vaccination, there is no national impact.
No national impact with hundreds of thousands infected? What planet are you on.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected or threatened to keep you safe.
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
What an awful post. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
You can't, you never could, and you never will. And in the vast majority of cases, for a parent under 65, the result is so what. Covid is 99% survivable.
In return for being allowed to enjoy their youth young people join armed forces, work for low pay, embark on careers and take on the burdens, obligations and responsibilities the previous generations leave. Without question.
IF we change the social contract on them, as what is the most selfish generation in history undoubtedly has, we shouldn't be surprised if they turn around and change it on us.
Also nonsense, but pretentious rather than abusive. I come from an Army family, but young people don't join the Army "in return for being allowed to enjoy their youth". They join it because they think it's something they could do well, like every other job.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
You understand that, Wulfrun understands that, most (not all) PBers understand that.
The public does not understand that and the Lockdownistas will deliberately misunderstand it when positive tests start to rise (probably next week). You will be able to countdown the calls to delay the roadmap in units of seconds after the first phantom 'uptick'.
Mark my words.
Most importantly SAGE and the Government understand it and are not lockdownistas.
Dont forget there's a five week interval too. A phantom uptick and continued decline in deaths won't cause a postponement.
I agree with that. But we will still have to endure endless pleading from the Zero Covid psychopaths for weeks until at least Easter I fear. And that will be bad enough!
Other than crazy Scottish Devi Sridhar (I think that's her full name now) are there many others?
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
Nonsense - being a contrarian is fine, but it doesn't entitle you to be abusive. He's not saying he feels unprotected - he's worried about the national impact.
If the vulnerable are protected, via vaccination, there is no national impact.
No national impact with hundreds of thousands infected? What planet are you on.
IF the vulnerable are protected via vaccination the rest is colds and flu, or symptomless cases.
It should not be the role of government to eliminate risk. And as others have pointed out, they haven’t even bothered to provide a cost benefit analysis of their measures a whole, yet alone a targeted analysis of each individual measure.
I don’t mean to sound blunt but who cares if our excess death goes up by a few hundred a day in the winter months. Its debatable whether taken over the period 2020-2025 you’ll even notice it. It’s time to announce job done and let the rest of get on with staving off personal bankruptcy and mental breakdowns in our families.
It's the role of government to eliminate risk to society.
I'm sorry but this is nonsense on stilts.
This is not the role of government and, in any case, you can never eliminate risk. All you can ever do is manage it. The aim should be to keep it as low as is possible given a society's risk appetite and the other demands a free society has.
But risk always has or always will be with us.
So you want to live in a society where Government shrugs its shoulders over eliminating societal risk? Just to "manage" it. That is 180 degrees different from your position a couple of days ago. Where you were demanding something be done to protect women from the risk of violence from men. To ensure women can rise to fulfill their full potential as equals of men. A change which clearly men were unable to effect themselves. Those of us who said we were already living our lives by the standards you want were not doing enough to address the broader problem within society. We were "whingers".
Hypocrisy on stilts.
You completely mischaracterise what I wrote about sexual violence. Never mind. I do not believe you can ever eliminate risk in life, not of disease or sexual violence come to that. You can do more than you are doing. But ultimately all of us, including government, manage the various risks we face.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
Nonsense - being a contrarian is fine, but it doesn't entitle you to be abusive. He's not saying he feels unprotected - he's worried about the national impact.
If the vulnerable are protected, via vaccination, there is no national impact.
No national impact with hundreds of thousands infected? What planet are you on.
IF the vulnerable are protected via vaccination the rest is colds and flu, or symptomless cases.
Except it doesn't work like that. Not everyone can have the vaccine, not everyone has had it. Not to mention the risk of mutation with a huge number of cases, like we saw in Kent. The risk may be small, but it is definitely not zero.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I can only admire your restraint in that post, Big G. When Topping went off on one in an equally unpleasant and dishonest fashion aimed at me I must confess I lost my temper, and I don’t think anyone would have blamed you for doing the same.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I can only admire your restraint in that post, Big G. When Topping went off on one in an equally unpleasant and dishonest fashion aimed at me I must confess I lost my temper, and I don’t think anyone would have blamed you for doing the same.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
You understand that, Wulfrun understands that, most (not all) PBers understand that.
The public does not understand that and the Lockdownistas will deliberately misunderstand it when positive tests start to rise (probably next week). You will be able to countdown the calls to delay the roadmap in units of seconds after the first phantom 'uptick'.
Mark my words.
Yes, I the wagons are already circling from the zero-not zero COVID chumps.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I can only admire your restraint in that post, Big G. When Topping went off on one in an equally unpleasant and dishonest fashion aimed at me I must confess I lost my temper, and I don’t think anyone would have blamed you for doing the same.
Thank you and to be honest I am saddened anyone could respond in that personal manner, but maybe not rising to it is the best course
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
I see, so people would are not affected by covid at all have to take vaccines before you will let them have their freedom and enjoy their youth again?
In addition to the vast mountain of debt, lost education, lowering of life chances, mental health issues and reduced job opportunities that keeping you safe has entailed?
Western Australia I thought was quite conservative and old school.
Doesn't strike me as a left-wing stronghold aka Liverpool.
Maybe rurally, but like every other state, almost everyone lives in big cities. About 75% of WA voters live in Perth. So you have an incumbent during COVID-19 in one of the most successful regions in one of the most successful countries at COVID-19 suppression, in a state in the middle of a 30-year resource boom, where the opposition parties are the federal government. Seems ideal for a landslide in a second-order election.
Chuck in a wildly popular State Premier and an opposition campaign imploding too. PS. Labor has won the rural areas too. In fairness, won pretty much everywhere.
The WA result is obviously good for the state Labor party and reflects a popular state premier.
However I doubt it means much at the Federal level, the latest Australian national poll has the Coalition on 42% and the ALP on 37% on the primary vote and 50% 50% on the 2PP vote.
Yep. Incumbency is winning everywhere. If it weren't for the huge outlier of Trump this truth would be held to be self-evident. 2 German Lander tomorrow and the Dutch next week will continue the trend.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
You understand that, Wulfrun understands that, most (not all) PBers understand that.
The public does not understand that and the Lockdownistas will deliberately misunderstand it when positive tests start to rise (probably next week). You will be able to countdown the calls to delay the roadmap in units of seconds after the first phantom 'uptick'.
Mark my words.
Yes, I the wagons are already circling from the zero-not zero COVID chumps.
Zero covid is ridiculous. Even NZ is saying that it may become endemic in their country after they have vaccinated.
The case rate is still flat rather than rising, which is encouraging - and the further into the vaccination program we get, the less harmful on average each one of the remaining cases will be. It's all good.
The amount of testing has just about doubled since last week, so the flattening out in the case rate is rather artificial.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
I agree entirely that the levelling off is a product of the huge increase in testing, which is what makes what we've seen so far rather exciting. The most obvious explanation is that the extra testing is picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases in children, whilst the case rate in the population at large is actually continuing to drop off, despite the re-opening of the schools.
You understand that, Wulfrun understands that, most (not all) PBers understand that.
The public does not understand that and the Lockdownistas will deliberately misunderstand it when positive tests start to rise (probably next week). You will be able to countdown the calls to delay the roadmap in units of seconds after the first phantom 'uptick'.
Mark my words.
Yes, I the wagons are already circling from the zero-not zero COVID chumps.
Except that the "rise" in cases from the return to school hasn't reversed the downward trend - just caused a levelling off.
Case rates per age group, except for the 0-14, continue to fall
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
Majority of the adult population or total population?
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
I see, so people would are not affected by covid at all have to take vaccines before you will let them have their freedom and enjoy their youth again?
In addition to the vast mountain of debt, lost education, lowering of life chances, mental health issues and reduced job opportunities that keeping you safe has entailed?
We just do not agree on this nor is personalising it helping your argument
The Anglo-Swedish drugmaker said on Friday it would try to deliver 30 million doses to the EU by the end of March, down from a contractual obligation of 90 million and a previous pledge made last month to deliver 40 million doses.
A contractual commitment to X doses does not exist.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
I see, so people would are not affected by covid at all have to take vaccines before you will let them have their freedom and enjoy their youth again?
In addition to the vast mountain of debt, lost education, lowering of life chances, mental health issues and reduced job opportunities that keeping you safe has entailed?
The opportunity cost of taking the vaccine is basically zero. So why not take it?
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I can only admire your restraint in that post, Big G. When Topping went off on one in an equally unpleasant and dishonest fashion aimed at me I must confess I lost my temper, and I don’t think anyone would have blamed you for doing the same.
Its hardly surprising that BigG is restrained when society has completely and utterly bent over backwards to help him, enormous sacrifices have been made on his behalf and still he is far from happy.
“we are (not in any way) banning the words 'mother' or 'father'."
Advising Staff against using the words is just as daft
I know this is the Generation Gap thing, but why?
Using "Parents and Guardians" instead of "Mothers and Father's" doesn't cost anyone anything, and is a little bit kinder to the small number of people who are included by one but excluded by the other.
Nothing is being enforced or banned, but it's just good manners.
Parent and Guardian does not mean the same as Mother and Father.
Indeed, it might be shockingly contentious to say this but absolutely every human alive has a biological mother and father.
But consider who a University might be writing to. The main contexts I can think of are "the adults we should contact when a student has a medical or personal crisis" or "the adults invited to graduation". In those contexts, P+G is more inclusive and accurate than M+F, because it allows for the possibility that a student isn't with their biological parents any more. Which is why schools have used this language for decades.
Now it's possible that there's some secret campaign by the University of Manchester to destroy the nuclear family. The alternative is that the Daily Mail and Toby Young have decided to make a mountain out of something that isn't even a molehill.
I know which one I would bet on.
This is a style guide which University employees themselves requested.
Did all the anti-woke snowflakes get so would up back in the day when they were instructed on when to use yours sincerely or yours faithfully in correspondence ?
Incidentally, am I the only person who hates the common ‘kind regards’ sign off on emails?
Hate it. Its one saving grace is to make clear that if you switch to 'Regards' it means you're really pissed off...
'Thanks,' is the ultimate furious sign off.
Not really, "regards" or "sincerely" are much worse. Thanks can work fine depending on the context.
I've always used "Thanks" but now I wonder who I've offended with that. What should I use instead?
Yours in anticipation.
Lol, "thanks" really does depend on the context and who it is you're emailing. A good catch all is "kind regards", it's inoffensive and good for all seasons.
I always user "kind regards" too - but now I'm worried because Ydoethur doesn't like it and I don't want to upset the teacher.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
Majority of the adult population or total population?
First doses or both doses?
Adult population and it does seem first doses would open the door, but I am not an expert
“we are (not in any way) banning the words 'mother' or 'father'."
Advising Staff against using the words is just as daft
I know this is the Generation Gap thing, but why?
Using "Parents and Guardians" instead of "Mothers and Father's" doesn't cost anyone anything, and is a little bit kinder to the small number of people who are included by one but excluded by the other.
Nothing is being enforced or banned, but it's just good manners.
Parent and Guardian does not mean the same as Mother and Father.
Indeed, it might be shockingly contentious to say this but absolutely every human alive has a biological mother and father.
But consider who a University might be writing to. The main contexts I can think of are "the adults we should contact when a student has a medical or personal crisis" or "the adults invited to graduation". In those contexts, P+G is more inclusive and accurate than M+F, because it allows for the possibility that a student isn't with their biological parents any more. Which is why schools have used this language for decades.
Now it's possible that there's some secret campaign by the University of Manchester to destroy the nuclear family. The alternative is that the Daily Mail and Toby Young have decided to make a mountain out of something that isn't even a molehill.
I know which one I would bet on.
This is a style guide which University employees themselves requested.
Did all the anti-woke snowflakes get so would up back in the day when they were instructed on when to use yours sincerely or yours faithfully in correspondence ?
Incidentally, am I the only person who hates the common ‘kind regards’ sign off on emails?
Hate it. Its one saving grace is to make clear that if you switch to 'Regards' it means you're really pissed off...
'Thanks,' is the ultimate furious sign off.
Not really, "regards" or "sincerely" are much worse. Thanks can work fine depending on the context.
I've always used "Thanks" but now I wonder who I've offended with that. What should I use instead?
Yours in anticipation.
Lol, "thanks" really does depend on the context and who it is you're emailing. A good catch all is "kind regards", it's inoffensive and good for all seasons.
I always user "kind regards" too - but now I'm worried because Ydoethur doesn't like it and I don't want to upset the teacher.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I can only admire your restraint in that post, Big G. When Topping went off on one in an equally unpleasant and dishonest fashion aimed at me I must confess I lost my temper, and I don’t think anyone would have blamed you for doing the same.
Its hardly surprising that BigG is restrained when society has completely and utterly bent over backwards to help him, enormous sacrifices have been made on his behalf and still he is far from happy.
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
It’s thankfully now straightforward. You vaccinate the parents. Which we will have done nationwide very soon, certainly far earlier than the current timetable for lifting restrictions.
The issue with that being that the vaccine is not 100% reliable. So there is still a significant risk.
Of course there will always be some risk but that reduces once everyone has been jabbed. Until then it is as wise to try and act as if you could potentially be a carrier and kill your parents.
Until there is a 100% reliable vaccine, this will be true. The human race should therefore be in lockdown forever.
No not at all. It is a balance of risks. I just consider that, until you have been vaccinated, which reduces the chances of you catching and passing on the virus, it is probably daft to take the additional risk of behaving normally and thereby potentially killing your granny.
Obviously it will never be risk free and nothing in life is. But if the risk of passing on the disease to your loved ones is 10% before you get jabbed and 1% afterwards then I don't think personally I would begrudge the additional couple of weeks I spend in lockdown to reduce that risk.
Of course there are a small number of people who are just too stupid or selfish to consider this. And if they do end up killing granny they will be the first to blame everyone but themselves.
There are a couple of people posting on here who I fear fall into that category.
“we are (not in any way) banning the words 'mother' or 'father'."
Advising Staff against using the words is just as daft
I know this is the Generation Gap thing, but why?
Using "Parents and Guardians" instead of "Mothers and Father's" doesn't cost anyone anything, and is a little bit kinder to the small number of people who are included by one but excluded by the other.
Nothing is being enforced or banned, but it's just good manners.
Parent and Guardian does not mean the same as Mother and Father.
Indeed, it might be shockingly contentious to say this but absolutely every human alive has a biological mother and father.
But consider who a University might be writing to. The main contexts I can think of are "the adults we should contact when a student has a medical or personal crisis" or "the adults invited to graduation". In those contexts, P+G is more inclusive and accurate than M+F, because it allows for the possibility that a student isn't with their biological parents any more. Which is why schools have used this language for decades.
Now it's possible that there's some secret campaign by the University of Manchester to destroy the nuclear family. The alternative is that the Daily Mail and Toby Young have decided to make a mountain out of something that isn't even a molehill.
I know which one I would bet on.
This is a style guide which University employees themselves requested.
Did all the anti-woke snowflakes get so would up back in the day when they were instructed on when to use yours sincerely or yours faithfully in correspondence ?
Incidentally, am I the only person who hates the common ‘kind regards’ sign off on emails?
Hate it. Its one saving grace is to make clear that if you switch to 'Regards' it means you're really pissed off...
'Thanks,' is the ultimate furious sign off.
Not really, "regards" or "sincerely" are much worse. Thanks can work fine depending on the context.
I've always used "Thanks" but now I wonder who I've offended with that. What should I use instead?
Yours in anticipation.
Lol, "thanks" really does depend on the context and who it is you're emailing. A good catch all is "kind regards", it's inoffensive and good for all seasons.
I always user "kind regards" too - but now I'm worried because Ydoethur doesn't like it and I don't want to upset the teacher.
It just seems such a silly phrase. It always comes across as cutting and sarcastic.
Well, to me it does. Others may disagree, although it’s obvious I’m not the only person who doesn’t like it.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
Majority of the adult population or total population?
First doses or both doses?
Adult population and it does seem first doses would open the door, but I am not an expert
Well the research is in the public domain. This is an intelligent site, if you have a view you should define that view.
(As it happens I agree with you – 50% adult first doses seems to me to be a key milestone)
French satire magazine Charlie Hebdo has come under fire for a cartoon which shows the Queen kneeling on Meghan Markle's neck, drawing parallels to the death of George Floyd.
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
It’s thankfully now straightforward. You vaccinate the parents. Which we will have done nationwide very soon, certainly far earlier than the current timetable for lifting restrictions.
The issue with that being that the vaccine is not 100% reliable. So there is still a significant risk.
Of course there will always be some risk but that reduces once everyone has been jabbed. Until then it is as wise to try and act as if you could potentially be a carrier and kill your parents.
Until there is a 100% reliable vaccine, this will be true. The human race should therefore be in lockdown forever.
No not at all. It is a balance of risks. I just consider that, until you have been vaccinated, which reduces the chances of you catching and passing on the virus, it is probably daft to take the additional risk of behaving normally and thereby potentially killing your granny.
Obviously it will never be risk free and nothing in life is. But if the risk of passing on the disease to your loved ones is 10% before you get jabbed and 1% afterwards then I don't think personally I would begrudge the additional couple of weeks I spend in lockdown to reduce that risk.
Of course there are a small number of people who are just too stupid or selfish to consider this. And if they do end up killing granny they will be the first to blame everyone but themselves.
There are a couple of people posting on here who I fear fall into that category.
Granny has been vaccinated already unless you are talking grandmothers of Angela Rayner's generation, which are very few in number indeed.
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
You can't, you never could, and you never will. And in the vast majority of cases, for a parent under 65, the result is so what. Covid is 99% survivable.
In return for being allowed to enjoy their youth young people join armed forces, work for low pay, embark on careers and take on the burdens, obligations and responsibilities the previous generations leave. Without question.
IF we change the social contract on them, as what is the most selfish generation in history undoubtedly has, we shouldn't be surprised if they turn around and change it on us.
What a truly dumb comment. Do you think older people suddenly appear on earth without having being young themselves - and in all likelihood grown up in far poorer circumstances than most people today? Are the old just created by spontaneous generation?
I think, for many and varied reasons, you need to grow up.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
I see, so people would are not affected by covid at all have to take vaccines before you will let them have their freedom and enjoy their youth again?
In addition to the vast mountain of debt, lost education, lowering of life chances, mental health issues and reduced job opportunities that keeping you safe has entailed?
We just do not agree on this nor is personalising it helping your argument
I'm sorry but this is personal because it affects everybody personally. You do not care or count at anything the sacrifices people have made on you behalf, even though in same cases they are very large and the young people concerned will bear the scars for life
Sacrifices you never made when you were young. Nobody had you on furlough or lockdown eh?
Now the general population must give up all kinds of freedoms and futures just so that you don't get a little bit nervous.
“we are (not in any way) banning the words 'mother' or 'father'."
Advising Staff against using the words is just as daft
I know this is the Generation Gap thing, but why?
Using "Parents and Guardians" instead of "Mothers and Father's" doesn't cost anyone anything, and is a little bit kinder to the small number of people who are included by one but excluded by the other.
Nothing is being enforced or banned, but it's just good manners.
Parent and Guardian does not mean the same as Mother and Father.
Indeed, it might be shockingly contentious to say this but absolutely every human alive has a biological mother and father.
But consider who a University might be writing to. The main contexts I can think of are "the adults we should contact when a student has a medical or personal crisis" or "the adults invited to graduation". In those contexts, P+G is more inclusive and accurate than M+F, because it allows for the possibility that a student isn't with their biological parents any more. Which is why schools have used this language for decades.
Now it's possible that there's some secret campaign by the University of Manchester to destroy the nuclear family. The alternative is that the Daily Mail and Toby Young have decided to make a mountain out of something that isn't even a molehill.
I know which one I would bet on.
This is a style guide which University employees themselves requested.
Did all the anti-woke snowflakes get so would up back in the day when they were instructed on when to use yours sincerely or yours faithfully in correspondence ?
Incidentally, am I the only person who hates the common ‘kind regards’ sign off on emails?
Hate it. Its one saving grace is to make clear that if you switch to 'Regards' it means you're really pissed off...
'Thanks,' is the ultimate furious sign off.
Not really, "regards" or "sincerely" are much worse. Thanks can work fine depending on the context.
I've always used "Thanks" but now I wonder who I've offended with that. What should I use instead?
Yours in anticipation.
Lol, "thanks" really does depend on the context and who it is you're emailing. A good catch all is "kind regards", it's inoffensive and good for all seasons.
I always user "kind regards" too - but now I'm worried because Ydoethur doesn't like it and I don't want to upset the teacher.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
Majority of the adult population or total population?
First doses or both doses?
Adult population and it does seem first doses would open the door, but I am not an expert
Well the research is in the public domain. This is an intelligent site, if you have a view you should define that view.
(As it happens I agree with you – 50% adult first doses seems to me to be a key milestone)
I think we should look at hospitalisations and the consequest pressure on health services as the guide.
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
It’s thankfully now straightforward. You vaccinate the parents. Which we will have done nationwide very soon, certainly far earlier than the current timetable for lifting restrictions.
The issue with that being that the vaccine is not 100% reliable. So there is still a significant risk.
Of course there will always be some risk but that reduces once everyone has been jabbed. Until then it is as wise to try and act as if you could potentially be a carrier and kill your parents.
Until there is a 100% reliable vaccine, this will be true. The human race should therefore be in lockdown forever.
No not at all. It is a balance of risks. I just consider that, until you have been vaccinated, which reduces the chances of you catching and passing on the virus, it is probably daft to take the additional risk of behaving normally and thereby potentially killing your granny.
Obviously it will never be risk free and nothing in life is. But if the risk of passing on the disease to your loved ones is 10% before you get jabbed and 1% afterwards then I don't think personally I would begrudge the additional couple of weeks I spend in lockdown to reduce that risk.
Of course there are a small number of people who are just too stupid or selfish to consider this. And if they do end up killing granny they will be the first to blame everyone but themselves.
There are a couple of people posting on here who I fear fall into that category.
Lockdown could also work well against flus, albeit they're far less deadly than COVID.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
I see, so people would are not affected by covid at all have to take vaccines before you will let them have their freedom and enjoy their youth again?
In addition to the vast mountain of debt, lost education, lowering of life chances, mental health issues and reduced job opportunities that keeping you safe has entailed?
We just do not agree on this nor is personalising it helping your argument
I'm sorry but this is personal because it affects everybody personally. You do not care or count at anything the sacrifices people have made on you behalf, even though in same cases they are very large and the young people concerned will bear the scars for life
Sacrifices you never made when you were young. Nobody had you on furlough or lockdown eh?
Now the general population must give up all kinds of freedoms and futures just so that you don't get a little bit nervous.
I stand my all my posts.
God, this is tedious. I can promise you that at the age of nearly 60 I hate this for its own sake, I hate it on behalf of my very lonely mother and I hate it especially on behalf of my 20 something children, for all the reasons you give. My mother hates it for her own sake and for her childrens' and grandchildrens', and has no desire for her life (especially not her life as it is now) to be artificially prolonged at this cost . We as a nation rightly think that 1. saving human life is age-agnostic and 2. we don't want to see corpses of any age clogging the hospital corridors and piling up in the street, which is the alternative choice. Your intergenerational hate thing is not unique to you, but I can promise you it is not, thank God, the norm.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
Majority of the adult population or total population?
First doses or both doses?
Adult population and it does seem first doses would open the door, but I am not an expert
Well the research is in the public domain. This is an intelligent site, if you have a view you should define that view.
(As it happens I agree with you – 50% adult first doses seems to me to be a key milestone)
“we are (not in any way) banning the words 'mother' or 'father'."
Advising Staff against using the words is just as daft
I know this is the Generation Gap thing, but why?
Using "Parents and Guardians" instead of "Mothers and Father's" doesn't cost anyone anything, and is a little bit kinder to the small number of people who are included by one but excluded by the other.
Nothing is being enforced or banned, but it's just good manners.
Parent and Guardian does not mean the same as Mother and Father.
Indeed, it might be shockingly contentious to say this but absolutely every human alive has a biological mother and father.
But consider who a University might be writing to. The main contexts I can think of are "the adults we should contact when a student has a medical or personal crisis" or "the adults invited to graduation". In those contexts, P+G is more inclusive and accurate than M+F, because it allows for the possibility that a student isn't with their biological parents any more. Which is why schools have used this language for decades.
Now it's possible that there's some secret campaign by the University of Manchester to destroy the nuclear family. The alternative is that the Daily Mail and Toby Young have decided to make a mountain out of something that isn't even a molehill.
I know which one I would bet on.
This is a style guide which University employees themselves requested.
Did all the anti-woke snowflakes get so would up back in the day when they were instructed on when to use yours sincerely or yours faithfully in correspondence ?
Incidentally, am I the only person who hates the common ‘kind regards’ sign off on emails?
Hate it. Its one saving grace is to make clear that if you switch to 'Regards' it means you're really pissed off...
'Thanks,' is the ultimate furious sign off.
Not really, "regards" or "sincerely" are much worse. Thanks can work fine depending on the context.
I've always used "Thanks" but now I wonder who I've offended with that. What should I use instead?
Yours in anticipation.
Lol, "thanks" really does depend on the context and who it is you're emailing. A good catch all is "kind regards", it's inoffensive and good for all seasons.
I always user "kind regards" too - but now I'm worried because Ydoethur doesn't like it and I don't want to upset the teacher.
Just add "sir" on the end, that should keep him happy.
Western Australia I thought was quite conservative and old school.
Doesn't strike me as a left-wing stronghold aka Liverpool.
Maybe rurally, but like every other state, almost everyone lives in big cities. About 75% of WA voters live in Perth. So you have an incumbent during COVID-19 in one of the most successful regions in one of the most successful countries at COVID-19 suppression, in a state in the middle of a 30-year resource boom, where the opposition parties are the federal government. Seems ideal for a landslide in a second-order election.
Chuck in a wildly popular State Premier and an opposition campaign imploding too. PS. Labor has won the rural areas too. In fairness, won pretty much everywhere.
The WA result is obviously good for the state Labor party and reflects a popular state premier.
However I doubt it means much at the Federal level, the latest Australian national poll has the Coalition on 42% and the ALP on 37% on the primary vote and 50% 50% on the 2PP vote.
Yep. Incumbency is winning everywhere. If it weren't for the huge outlier of Trump this truth would be held to be self-evident. 2 German Lander tomorrow and the Dutch next week will continue the trend.
Agreed, though even Trump did better than many polls predicted but it was his poor Covid record that did for him, while Biden is now benefiting from the success of the vaccines as the current incumbent.
Only possible other exception is Italy where Salvini's party still leads, though of course although Draghi not Salvini is the PM, Draghi has bought Salvini's party into his government which now includes virtually every party bar Fdl, Brothers of Italy
“we are (not in any way) banning the words 'mother' or 'father'."
Advising Staff against using the words is just as daft
I know this is the Generation Gap thing, but why?
Using "Parents and Guardians" instead of "Mothers and Father's" doesn't cost anyone anything, and is a little bit kinder to the small number of people who are included by one but excluded by the other.
Nothing is being enforced or banned, but it's just good manners.
Parent and Guardian does not mean the same as Mother and Father.
Indeed, it might be shockingly contentious to say this but absolutely every human alive has a biological mother and father.
But consider who a University might be writing to. The main contexts I can think of are "the adults we should contact when a student has a medical or personal crisis" or "the adults invited to graduation". In those contexts, P+G is more inclusive and accurate than M+F, because it allows for the possibility that a student isn't with their biological parents any more. Which is why schools have used this language for decades.
Now it's possible that there's some secret campaign by the University of Manchester to destroy the nuclear family. The alternative is that the Daily Mail and Toby Young have decided to make a mountain out of something that isn't even a molehill.
I know which one I would bet on.
This is a style guide which University employees themselves requested.
Did all the anti-woke snowflakes get so would up back in the day when they were instructed on when to use yours sincerely or yours faithfully in correspondence ?
Incidentally, am I the only person who hates the common ‘kind regards’ sign off on emails?
Hate it. Its one saving grace is to make clear that if you switch to 'Regards' it means you're really pissed off...
'Thanks,' is the ultimate furious sign off.
Not really, "regards" or "sincerely" are much worse. Thanks can work fine depending on the context.
I've always used "Thanks" but now I wonder who I've offended with that. What should I use instead?
Yours in anticipation.
Lol, "thanks" really does depend on the context and who it is you're emailing. A good catch all is "kind regards", it's inoffensive and good for all seasons.
I always user "kind regards" too - but now I'm worried because Ydoethur doesn't like it and I don't want to upset the teacher.
Just add "sir" on the end, that should keep him happy.
Well, actually, I’m even more confused now because when I get emails from students they normally finish with ‘thanks, sir’ and apparently that’s in some way cutting.
I always thought it was them showing good manners.
“we are (not in any way) banning the words 'mother' or 'father'."
Advising Staff against using the words is just as daft
I know this is the Generation Gap thing, but why?
Using "Parents and Guardians" instead of "Mothers and Father's" doesn't cost anyone anything, and is a little bit kinder to the small number of people who are included by one but excluded by the other.
Nothing is being enforced or banned, but it's just good manners.
Parent and Guardian does not mean the same as Mother and Father.
Indeed, it might be shockingly contentious to say this but absolutely every human alive has a biological mother and father.
But consider who a University might be writing to. The main contexts I can think of are "the adults we should contact when a student has a medical or personal crisis" or "the adults invited to graduation". In those contexts, P+G is more inclusive and accurate than M+F, because it allows for the possibility that a student isn't with their biological parents any more. Which is why schools have used this language for decades.
Now it's possible that there's some secret campaign by the University of Manchester to destroy the nuclear family. The alternative is that the Daily Mail and Toby Young have decided to make a mountain out of something that isn't even a molehill.
I know which one I would bet on.
This is a style guide which University employees themselves requested.
Did all the anti-woke snowflakes get so would up back in the day when they were instructed on when to use yours sincerely or yours faithfully in correspondence ?
Incidentally, am I the only person who hates the common ‘kind regards’ sign off on emails?
Hate it. Its one saving grace is to make clear that if you switch to 'Regards' it means you're really pissed off...
'Thanks,' is the ultimate furious sign off.
Not really, "regards" or "sincerely" are much worse. Thanks can work fine depending on the context.
I've always used "Thanks" but now I wonder who I've offended with that. What should I use instead?
Yours in anticipation.
Lol, "thanks" really does depend on the context and who it is you're emailing. A good catch all is "kind regards", it's inoffensive and good for all seasons.
I always user "kind regards" too - but now I'm worried because Ydoethur doesn't like it and I don't want to upset the teacher.
I'm a best wishes man.
So am I although it occurs to me I mostly use it in cases where I do not actually give a fuck about the recipient.
I'm happy with emails not topped and tailed, and often write them that way, but admit I normally go back and add a salutation and sign off before sending them.
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
You can't, you never could, and you never will. And in the vast majority of cases, for a parent under 65, the result is so what. Covid is 99% survivable.
In return for being allowed to enjoy their youth young people join armed forces, work for low pay, embark on careers and take on the burdens, obligations and responsibilities the previous generations leave. Without question.
IF we change the social contract on them, as what is the most selfish generation in history undoubtedly has, we shouldn't be surprised if they turn around and change it on us.
What a truly dumb comment. Do you think older people suddenly appear on earth without having being young themselves - and in all likelihood grown up in far poorer circumstances than most people today? Are the old just created by spontaneous generation?
I think, for many and varied reasons, you need to grow up.
Look at the facts.
Boomers were not locked down. They were never placed under house arrest. They were not furloughed. Their educations were not destroyed. They were not ordered to wear masks for hours every day. They were not locked up at university, or cheated out of money in return for substandard lectures the Open university could provide. Their job opportunities were not shattered by fiat. They were not burdened by enormous and crushing debts. Their protests were not stopped by covid laws. They were not told they could not exercise.
All over a disease that does not affect them.
What we have done to our young people is abominable, and still, apparently, it is not enough.
“we are (not in any way) banning the words 'mother' or 'father'."
Advising Staff against using the words is just as daft
I know this is the Generation Gap thing, but why?
Using "Parents and Guardians" instead of "Mothers and Father's" doesn't cost anyone anything, and is a little bit kinder to the small number of people who are included by one but excluded by the other.
Nothing is being enforced or banned, but it's just good manners.
Parent and Guardian does not mean the same as Mother and Father.
Indeed, it might be shockingly contentious to say this but absolutely every human alive has a biological mother and father.
But consider who a University might be writing to. The main contexts I can think of are "the adults we should contact when a student has a medical or personal crisis" or "the adults invited to graduation". In those contexts, P+G is more inclusive and accurate than M+F, because it allows for the possibility that a student isn't with their biological parents any more. Which is why schools have used this language for decades.
Now it's possible that there's some secret campaign by the University of Manchester to destroy the nuclear family. The alternative is that the Daily Mail and Toby Young have decided to make a mountain out of something that isn't even a molehill.
I know which one I would bet on.
This is a style guide which University employees themselves requested.
Did all the anti-woke snowflakes get so would up back in the day when they were instructed on when to use yours sincerely or yours faithfully in correspondence ?
Incidentally, am I the only person who hates the common ‘kind regards’ sign off on emails?
Hate it. Its one saving grace is to make clear that if you switch to 'Regards' it means you're really pissed off...
'Thanks,' is the ultimate furious sign off.
Not really, "regards" or "sincerely" are much worse. Thanks can work fine depending on the context.
I've always used "Thanks" but now I wonder who I've offended with that. What should I use instead?
Yours in anticipation.
Lol, "thanks" really does depend on the context and who it is you're emailing. A good catch all is "kind regards", it's inoffensive and good for all seasons.
I always user "kind regards" too - but now I'm worried because Ydoethur doesn't like it and I don't want to upset the teacher.
I'm a best wishes man.
I like using "best wishes" because on the rare occasions when I omit it in emails I imply a subtle curse on the recipient. For delinquent students, I omit the "best wishes" and sign with my forename and surname - that's as ominous as I can make it.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
I see, so people would are not affected by covid at all have to take vaccines before you will let them have their freedom and enjoy their youth again?
In addition to the vast mountain of debt, lost education, lowering of life chances, mental health issues and reduced job opportunities that keeping you safe has entailed?
We just do not agree on this nor is personalising it helping your argument
I'm sorry but this is personal because it affects everybody personally. You do not care or count at anything the sacrifices people have made on you behalf, even though in same cases they are very large and the young people concerned will bear the scars for life
Sacrifices you never made when you were young. Nobody had you on furlough or lockdown eh?
Now the general population must give up all kinds of freedoms and futures just so that you don't get a little bit nervous.
I stand my all my posts.
I cowered under a steel table as V bombs flew overhead (lockdown) in1944 and one crashed nearby killing 6 neighbours
Your idea sacrifices were not made when I was young when we were at war and the austere years following are just wrong
And of course I am grateful we have been vaccinated, but even more so that my 60 year old son in law has as well as my 46 year old son have received their first vaccines
I am delighted for each and everyone who receives a vaccine and look forward to the majority of adults receiving it by the summer
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
It’s thankfully now straightforward. You vaccinate the parents. Which we will have done nationwide very soon, certainly far earlier than the current timetable for lifting restrictions.
The issue with that being that the vaccine is not 100% reliable. So there is still a significant risk.
Of course there will always be some risk but that reduces once everyone has been jabbed. Until then it is as wise to try and act as if you could potentially be a carrier and kill your parents.
Until there is a 100% reliable vaccine, this will be true. The human race should therefore be in lockdown forever.
No not at all. It is a balance of risks. I just consider that, until you have been vaccinated, which reduces the chances of you catching and passing on the virus, it is probably daft to take the additional risk of behaving normally and thereby potentially killing your granny.
Obviously it will never be risk free and nothing in life is. But if the risk of passing on the disease to your loved ones is 10% before you get jabbed and 1% afterwards then I don't think personally I would begrudge the additional couple of weeks I spend in lockdown to reduce that risk.
Of course there are a small number of people who are just too stupid or selfish to consider this. And if they do end up killing granny they will be the first to blame everyone but themselves.
There are a couple of people posting on here who I fear fall into that category.
Granny has been vaccinated already unless you are talking grandmothers of Angela Rayner's generation, which are very few in number indeed.
And that vaccine will not be 100% effective. Not even, in spite of what the Lancet may claim, at preventing death. No vaccine is. Even if it is 99.9% efficient at preventing death that is still almost 16,000 people who could die if they caught the virus. And that assumes all of them can actually have it. Moreover that assumes they have all had the second dose by now - which most of them have not.
As I said, it is about balance of risks and for the sake of another couple of weeks I think it is a reasonable cost.
You asked about a 20 year old socialising, and making their own choices about the risks they are prepared to run.
Let me take a step back. Imagine you build a factory and it belches out noxious and toxic emissions. You might be prepared to work in the factory and run the risk of being affected by those emissions, but the emissions don't stop at the factory gates. Those fumes drift beyond, and they can get other people sick.
We therefore have rules about the emissions factories are allowed to emit.
Your 20 year old, if they have CV19, they might not even notice, or it might be a mild sniffle. They aren't going to be negatively affected (or at least not much), but they are a walking talking negartive externality spewer. And in democratic societies, we have rules that restrict negative externalities.
If it were possible to segment the risk, so that 20 year olds were unable to pass CV19 onto other people, it would be amazing. But the reality is that your 20 year old probably lives at home with their parents, or socialises with people who live with their parents. How do you stop those externalities spreading?
You can't, you never could, and you never will. And in the vast majority of cases, for a parent under 65, the result is so what. Covid is 99% survivable.
In return for being allowed to enjoy their youth young people join armed forces, work for low pay, embark on careers and take on the burdens, obligations and responsibilities the previous generations leave. Without question.
IF we change the social contract on them, as what is the most selfish generation in history undoubtedly has, we shouldn't be surprised if they turn around and change it on us.
What a truly dumb comment. Do you think older people suddenly appear on earth without having being young themselves - and in all likelihood grown up in far poorer circumstances than most people today? Are the old just created by spontaneous generation?
I think, for many and varied reasons, you need to grow up.
Look at the facts.
Boomers were not locked down. They were never placed under house arrest. They were not furloughed. Their educations were not destroyed. They were not ordered to wear masks for hours every day. They were not locked up at university, or cheated out of money in return for substandard lectures the Open university could provide. Their job opportunities were not shattered by fiat. They were not burdened by enormous and crushing debts. Their protests were not stopped by covid laws. They were not told they could not exercise.
All over a disease that does not affect them.
What we have done to our young people is abominable, and still, apparently, it is not enough.
In a perfect world you could simply isolate all the people who would die or have serious complications from covid away from the rest of the population so that everyone else can get on with their lives. Unfortunately, it isn't that simple.
I have just returned from Asda needing paracetamol for a rather painful tooth extraction last week, and the place was crazy with hordes of people and children, no social distancing, no control by Asda staff, or security either, on the volumes of people in the store or social distancing.
It was just like covid had never happened.
I know it is Mothers day tomorrow and last minute buying of flowers and chocs are understandable, but this was mayhem.
I was grateful that I have had my two Pfizer vaccinations, the second one a week ago, but if the public are unable to show any restraint we will be back in UK lockdown very soon.
What an utterly selfish and frankly contemptible attitude.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected to keep you safe/
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
I want people and the NHS to be protected from a deadly virus that is still not under control
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
I'm not taking sides in this spat, but, out of interest, how would you define under control?
When the majority of the population are vaccinated
I see, so people would are not affected by covid at all have to take vaccines before you will let them have their freedom and enjoy their youth again?
In addition to the vast mountain of debt, lost education, lowering of life chances, mental health issues and reduced job opportunities that keeping you safe has entailed?
We just do not agree on this nor is personalising it helping your argument
I'm sorry but this is personal because it affects everybody personally. You do not care or count at anything the sacrifices people have made on you behalf, even though in same cases they are very large and the young people concerned will bear the scars for life
Sacrifices you never made when you were young. Nobody had you on furlough or lockdown eh?
Now the general population must give up all kinds of freedoms and futures just so that you don't get a little bit nervous.
I stand my all my posts.
I cowered under a steel table as V bombs flew overhead (lockdown) in1944 and one crashed nearby killing 6 neighbours
Your idea sacrifices were not made when I was young when we were at war and the austere years following are just wrong
And of course I am grateful we have been vaccinated, but even more so that my 60 year old son in law has as well as my 46 year old son have received their first vaccines
I am delighted for each and everyone who receives a vaccine and look forward to the majority of adults receiving it by the summer
You have a very strange attitude to these matters
It's quite something. He refuses to get vaccinated, too.
Comments
Of course there will always be some risk but that reduces once everyone has been jabbed. Until then it is as wise to try and act as if you could potentially be a carrier and kill your parents.
Although the death rate is a lagging indicator, I think it's now the more meaningful indicator one. It's falling fast enough that the 7 day average is itself out of date, because it reflects an average 3.5 days ago and isn't projected forward. It's fallen to the level of mid June last, and yet it's still falling as fast as at any point in 2020. Deaths coming through now are going to be from people who had hung on from a very long time, or from very elderly vaccine refuseniks, or from slightly younger but vulnerable adults who caught it just before the vaccine was rolled out to them. By the start of April there will be a very high proportion of vaccine refuseniks in the residual deaths.
Get Brexit DoneNope
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1370773541226962947
In return for being allowed to enjoy their youth young people join armed forces, work for low pay, embark on careers and take on the burdens, obligations and responsibilities the previous generations leave. Without question.
IF we change the social contract on them, as what is the most selfish generation in history undoubtedly has, we shouldn't be surprised if they turn around and change it on us.
The public does not understand that and the Lockdownistas will deliberately misunderstand it when positive tests start to rise (probably next week). You will be able to countdown the calls to delay the roadmap in units of seconds after the first phantom 'uptick'.
Mark my words.
Dont forget there's a five week interval too. A phantom uptick and continued decline in deaths won't cause a postponement.
We've locked down to protect you and your health. We given you vaccines. Enormous sacrifices have been made by people whose lives are not affected or threatened to keep you safe.
Seriously, what more do you expect? what more do you want? how much life do you think you are owed? How much more sacrifice is to be made to protect you, you self entitled, pompous ungrateful sh*t?
However I doubt it means much at the Federal level, the latest Australian national poll has the Coalition on 42% and the ALP on 37% on the primary vote and 50% 50% on the 2PP vote.
Incumbent PM Morrison is also preferred to Labor leader Albanese by 61% to 26% as preferred PM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Australian_federal_election
It's the only way to be sure.
I suspect that most people are the same
And your comments are rather personal and indeed unpleasant but then so be it
from cases
from hospitalisations
What, my coat?
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1237433650230300672?s=20
In addition to the vast mountain of debt, lost education, lowering of life chances, mental health issues and reduced job opportunities that keeping you safe has entailed?
Incumbency is winning everywhere. If it weren't for the huge outlier of Trump this truth would be held to be self-evident.
2 German Lander tomorrow and the Dutch next week will continue the trend.
Case rates per age group, except for the 0-14, continue to fall
First doses or both doses?
The Anglo-Swedish drugmaker said on Friday it would try to deliver 30 million doses to the EU by the end of March, down from a contractual obligation of 90 million and a previous pledge made last month to deliver 40 million doses.
A contractual commitment to X doses does not exist.
STOP RETWEETING HIM
Obviously it will never be risk free and nothing in life is. But if the risk of passing on the disease to your loved ones is 10% before you get jabbed and 1% afterwards then I don't think personally I would begrudge the additional couple of weeks I spend in lockdown to reduce that risk.
Of course there are a small number of people who are just too stupid or selfish to consider this. And if they do end up killing granny they will be the first to blame everyone but themselves.
There are a couple of people posting on here who I fear fall into that category.
Well, to me it does. Others may disagree, although it’s obvious I’m not the only person who doesn’t like it.
(As it happens I agree with you – 50% adult first doses seems to me to be a key milestone)
I think, for many and varied reasons, you need to grow up.
Sacrifices you never made when you were young. Nobody had you on furlough or lockdown eh?
Now the general population must give up all kinds of freedoms and futures just so that you don't get a little bit nervous.
I stand my all my posts.
Keating Porn is tiresome – and not even useful.
- 90% take-up for 50+
- 90% take-up for 40+
Only possible other exception is Italy where Salvini's party still leads, though of course although Draghi not Salvini is the PM, Draghi has bought Salvini's party into his government which now includes virtually every party bar Fdl, Brothers of Italy
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1370763934089744389?s=20
I always thought it was them showing good manners.
I'm happy with emails not topped and tailed, and often write them that way, but admit I normally go back and add a salutation and sign off before sending them.
Boomers were not locked down. They were never placed under house arrest. They were not furloughed. Their educations were not destroyed. They were not ordered to wear masks for hours every day. They were not locked up at university, or cheated out of money in return for substandard lectures the Open university could provide. Their job opportunities were not shattered by fiat. They were not burdened by enormous and crushing debts. Their protests were not stopped by covid laws. They were not told they could not exercise.
All over a disease that does not affect them.
What we have done to our young people is abominable, and still, apparently, it is not enough.
--AS
Your idea sacrifices were not made when I was young when we were at war and the austere years following are just wrong
And of course I am grateful we have been vaccinated, but even more so that my 60 year old son in law has as well as my 46 year old son have received their first vaccines
I am delighted for each and everyone who receives a vaccine and look forward to the majority of adults receiving it by the summer
You have a very strange attitude to these matters
As I said, it is about balance of risks and for the sake of another couple of weeks I think it is a reasonable cost.