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May 6th – the return of real elections and lots of data for political nerds to get stuck into – poli

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    BBC still banging on about holidays

    They understand holibobs.....
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    BBC still banging on about holidays

    cnuts.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    dixiedean said:

    Wow. That was quick.

    As the actress said to the bishop.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,440

    It will be quite close, but I think the government should beat the target by approx 300k, assuming no more acceleration. It might reach 15 million by Sunday without requiring the final counting day on Monday.

    If it has a bumper weekend, it could smash the target.

    Having spoken to staff at the vaccine site in Bath, I now believe we are trying hard to ensure NO-ONE in categories 1-4 has not had the chance of a jab by the 15th, to prevent the inevitable wankers in the media proclaiming Government lies about vaccination, when they claim to have done all in 1-4. (Awful sentence construction...).
    They could clearly have done many more in Bath this week, but I think they are holding back from calling say over 65 or over 60s up until the 1-4 are complete.
    My GP sent out a notice asking anyone in group (tier? cohort? what is the correct term?) 5 to get in touch.
    Ye p - I think next week this will be widespread.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    Stupid to ask questions when you know what the Government is going to say:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8wEo3ZdFdg

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    It will be quite close, but I think the government should beat the target by approx 300k, assuming no more acceleration. It might reach 15 million by Sunday without requiring the final counting day on Monday.

    If it has a bumper weekend, it could smash the target.

    Having spoken to staff at the vaccine site in Bath, I now believe we are trying hard to ensure NO-ONE in categories 1-4 has not had the chance of a jab by the 15th, to prevent the inevitable wankers in the media proclaiming Government lies about vaccination, when they claim to have done all in 1-4. (Awful sentence construction...).
    They could clearly have done many more in Bath this week, but I think they are holding back from calling say over 65 or over 60s up until the 1-4 are complete.
    That would be a little disappointing. More death and disease would be prevented by getting on with some of groups 5-6 now, but if you're right then politics is causing them to do the suboptimal thing. At least it's not a huge difference and hopefully they will be increasing the rate soon.

    On a personal note, one (not very close) member of my family is now on a ventilator, and being considered for ECMO. He's only 40, wife and two kids.

    --AS
    That's horrible - hope it works out ok
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    How long before someone demands it be called "People Force"?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    Professor Jonathan Van-Tam has claimed it's 'perfectly possible' the UK will be giving coronavirus vaccines to children by the end of the year.

    Get those little plague spreaders jabbed....

    Vaccinations for children have carried on during lockdown. We had the Y9s in (one at a time) a few weeks ago to get which ever jab they were due under normal circumstances.
    Yep my son had his Yr 9 jabs a couple of weeks ago. All very efficient and quickly (and safely) done at the school. In and out in a few minutes.
    I'm beginning to think we do vaccinations pretty well as a country. One of the big advantages of the NHS.

    Did I read that in some countries they were insisting that it had to be a doctor doing it, or was that just my imagination (which is entirely possible)?
    Yep I believe both France and Spain from what I have read on here.
    Doctors are usually terrible at administering injections. Give me a nurse any day.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Professor Jonathan Van-Tam has claimed it's 'perfectly possible' the UK will be giving coronavirus vaccines to children by the end of the year.

    Get those little plague spreaders jabbed....

    Vaccinations for children have carried on during lockdown. We had the Y9s in (one at a time) a few weeks ago to get which ever jab they were due under normal circumstances.
    Yep my son had his Yr 9 jabs a couple of weeks ago. All very efficient and quickly (and safely) done at the school. In and out in a few minutes.
    I'm beginning to think we do vaccinations pretty well as a country. One of the big advantages of the NHS.

    Did I read that in some countries they were insisting that it had to be a doctor doing it, or was that just my imagination (which is entirely possible)?
    IME the very last person you want doing any sort of injection or blood test is a doctor
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    Asking them in February? In the middle of a pandemic. Very reasonable.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,695

    It will be quite close, but I think the government should beat the target by approx 300k, assuming no more acceleration. It might reach 15 million by Sunday without requiring the final counting day on Monday.

    If it has a bumper weekend, it could smash the target.

    Having spoken to staff at the vaccine site in Bath, I now believe we are trying hard to ensure NO-ONE in categories 1-4 has not had the chance of a jab by the 15th, to prevent the inevitable wankers in the media proclaiming Government lies about vaccination, when they claim to have done all in 1-4. (Awful sentence construction...).
    They could clearly have done many more in Bath this week, but I think they are holding back from calling say over 65 or over 60s up until the 1-4 are complete.
    They could mitigate that by opening it up to groups 5-6 and simultaneously launching an information campaign to reach anyone in the higher priority groups who hasn't yet been vaccinated, maybe with a mobile squad to come out to people who can't easily get to a vaccination centre.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,440

    It will be quite close, but I think the government should beat the target by approx 300k, assuming no more acceleration. It might reach 15 million by Sunday without requiring the final counting day on Monday.

    If it has a bumper weekend, it could smash the target.

    Having spoken to staff at the vaccine site in Bath, I now believe we are trying hard to ensure NO-ONE in categories 1-4 has not had the chance of a jab by the 15th, to prevent the inevitable wankers in the media proclaiming Government lies about vaccination, when they claim to have done all in 1-4. (Awful sentence construction...).
    They could clearly have done many more in Bath this week, but I think they are holding back from calling say over 65 or over 60s up until the 1-4 are complete.
    That would be a little disappointing. More death and disease would be prevented by getting on with some of groups 5-6 now, but if you're right then politics is causing them to do the suboptimal thing. At least it's not a huge difference and hopefully they will be increasing the rate soon.

    On a personal note, one (not very close) member of my family is now on a ventilator, and being considered for ECMO. He's only 40, wife and two kids.

    --AS
    Sorry to hear that and I hope they pull through. One of the reasons I was so happy to be jabbed today.

    I'd love to be wrong about the jabbing, but it was really stark how quiet they were this week, and being directly told they wanted to drag people of the street to jab them.*

    *Tricky - the racecourse is 3 miles out of Bath, but the thought stands!
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    MrEd said:

    How long before someone demands it be called "People Force"?
    'Mail Violence', shurely?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    SKS gets a Q on holidays, and uses it as an opportunity to bash the government. Well done!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:

    I didn't see the presser but the idea that journalists shouldn't ask the question is:

    ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

    This is a major issue that is exercising the mind of much of the public, and with good reason.

    PBers has a hugely disproportion faction that aren't bothered about getting away.

    Are people really clamouring for this? Polls suggest otherwise.
    If my friends' WhatsApp group is anything to go by, absolutely.

    People in low-risk groups 50 and under, and with families, are wanting to get away. Not now, but in the summer, even if it's within the UK.

    It is absolutely valid that these questions are asked and that pressure is kept up on the government.

    There is a hugely disproportionate representation on PB of people who are relatively sanguine about lockdown, aren't bothered about holidays and rarely get out much even in normal times.

    The judgemental attitude on here is nauseating.

    Nothing wrong with wanting a holiday – wanting something to look forward to.

    I hope the questions continue to be asked, regularly.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Very persuasive mix of video and advocacy from the Dems impeachment team
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    BBC still banging on about holidays


    So what?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    Anecdotally I know several people in the 65-69 cohort in different health authorities now jabbed. How much double counting is there in the JCVI groupings I wonder.

    You start to think that plenty of people with an age beginning 4 will be done next calendar month.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2021

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    People who live somewhere they really love (eg Wales) are just not interested in holidays at all.

    It seems it is mainly the Londoners who can't want to get out of the place & go on their skiing holidays or their cheap holiday in the Sun. :wink:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    rcs1000 said:

    Professor Jonathan Van-Tam has claimed it's 'perfectly possible' the UK will be giving coronavirus vaccines to children by the end of the year.

    Get those little plague spreaders jabbed....

    Vaccinations for children have carried on during lockdown. We had the Y9s in (one at a time) a few weeks ago to get which ever jab they were due under normal circumstances.
    Yep my son had his Yr 9 jabs a couple of weeks ago. All very efficient and quickly (and safely) done at the school. In and out in a few minutes.
    I'm beginning to think we do vaccinations pretty well as a country. One of the big advantages of the NHS.

    Did I read that in some countries they were insisting that it had to be a doctor doing it, or was that just my imagination (which is entirely possible)?
    Yep I believe both France and Spain from what I have read on here.
    Doctors are usually terrible at administering injections. Give me a nurse any day.
    The local heroin addict probably does a better job. My ex-gf is a doctor, when she was a student she said the actual doctors got the medical students to do anything with needles because they'd all forgotten how to do it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,440
    rcs1000 said:

    Professor Jonathan Van-Tam has claimed it's 'perfectly possible' the UK will be giving coronavirus vaccines to children by the end of the year.

    Get those little plague spreaders jabbed....

    Vaccinations for children have carried on during lockdown. We had the Y9s in (one at a time) a few weeks ago to get which ever jab they were due under normal circumstances.
    Yep my son had his Yr 9 jabs a couple of weeks ago. All very efficient and quickly (and safely) done at the school. In and out in a few minutes.
    I'm beginning to think we do vaccinations pretty well as a country. One of the big advantages of the NHS.

    Did I read that in some countries they were insisting that it had to be a doctor doing it, or was that just my imagination (which is entirely possible)?
    Yep I believe both France and Spain from what I have read on here.
    Doctors are usually terrible at administering injections. Give me a nurse any day.
    My favourite 'doctors being bad at a job' is phlebotomy. During my leukemia treatment I regularly had peripheral bloods taken. Easy with a line in, harder when they need to bleed a vein. Hospital phlebotomists, who have one job to do, many times a day, were routinely brilliant. Some doctors, not so much. One junior doc tried 5 (yes five) different locations to get about 10 mL of blood. Both arms, a foot, and two hands. Frankly embarassing.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    People who live somewhere they really love (eg Wales) are just not interested in holidays at all.

    It seems it is mainly the Londoners who can't want to get out of the place & go on their skiing holidays or their cheap holiday in the Sun. :wink:
    Bullshit.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    RobD said:

    I didn't see the presser but the idea that journalists shouldn't ask the question is:

    ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

    This is a major issue that is exercising the mind of much of the public, and with good reason.

    PBers has a hugely disproportion faction that aren't bothered about getting away.

    Are people really clamouring for this? Polls suggest otherwise.
    If my friends' WhatsApp group is anything to go by, absolutely.

    People in low-risk groups 50 and under, and with families, are wanting to get away. Not now, but in the summer, even if it's within the UK.

    It is absolutely valid that these questions are asked and that pressure is kept up on the government.

    There is a hugely disproportionate representation on PB of people who are relatively sanguine about lockdown, aren't bothered about holidays and rarely get out much even in normal times.

    The judgemental attitude on here is nauseating.

    Nothing wrong with wanting a holiday – wanting something to look forward to.

    I hope the questions continue to be asked, regularly.
    Anecdote vs. data.
  • IanB2 said:

    Professor Jonathan Van-Tam has claimed it's 'perfectly possible' the UK will be giving coronavirus vaccines to children by the end of the year.

    Get those little plague spreaders jabbed....

    Vaccinations for children have carried on during lockdown. We had the Y9s in (one at a time) a few weeks ago to get which ever jab they were due under normal circumstances.
    Yep my son had his Yr 9 jabs a couple of weeks ago. All very efficient and quickly (and safely) done at the school. In and out in a few minutes.
    I'm beginning to think we do vaccinations pretty well as a country. One of the big advantages of the NHS.

    Did I read that in some countries they were insisting that it had to be a doctor doing it, or was that just my imagination (which is entirely possible)?
    IME the very last person you want doing any sort of injection or blood test is a doctor
    Anaesthetists tend to be OK, though some are much better than others.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    Asking them in February? In the middle of a pandemic. Very reasonable.
    Yes, it is reasonable to ask.

    If you really believe the government aren't modelling this internally, you are a fool.

    But actually you aren't a fool, you are just a judgemental authoritarian.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Bit annoyed with my university today. We are told that they "aspire" to return exam results within 20 working days however 20 working days have been and gone and it has been nothing but radio silence.

    If I had missed an important customer deadline and not told them in advance there was going to be a problem I would have been sacked.

    A short email this morning saying there was going to be a delay would have sufficed. Instead I've spent all day refreshing the results page for no reason.

    Another day, another 12 thousand pounds worth of bitterness.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Argh!!! Hols again!


    What's wrong with asking this exactly?

    You have a chance to ask a question directly to the PM and the country's top boffin. A very privileged position.

    Do you ask about vaccine efficacy? Do you ask about new variants? Do you ask about safeguards, the functionality of Test & Trace or secondary impacts on the functioning of the NHS? No. You say "When can I book my summer holiday?" That's what is wrong with it.
    You ask all of those questions. Every day.

    All are valid. The idea that people's road to freedom shouldn't be investigated is absolute nonsense.

    PB at it's worst.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    How long before someone demands it be called "People Force"?
    'Mail Violence', shurely?
    What about "Mail Privilege"?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,220
    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    Time for my daily reminder that SA, new variant or no, is significantly closer to ending the epidemic within its own border than the United Kingdom is


  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    IanB2 said:

    Very persuasive mix of video and advocacy from the Dems impeachment team

    It certainly seems like Trump's lawyers had a terrible day but the numbers are just not there. Only 1 more defector and even he seems unlikely to convict.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706

    Argh!!! Hols again!


    What's wrong with asking this exactly?

    You have a chance to ask a question directly to the PM and the country's top boffin. A very privileged position.

    Do you ask about vaccine efficacy? Do you ask about new variants? Do you ask about safeguards, the functionality of Test & Trace or secondary impacts on the functioning of the NHS? No. You say "When can I book my summer holiday?" That's what is wrong with it.
    Yes, but vaccine efficacy and variant questions were asked anyway, so I'm not really seeing the issue. I prefer to see the journalists react to what other journalists have previously asked, rather than steadfastly asking the same question and eliciting the same answer.

    But what's maybe more pertinent rather than hoilidays per se is just general freedoms, as someone said below you can't get a hair cut, can't go out for a meal or a gym session or a swim or meet someone else indoors or whatever.

    Pretty reasonable at this stage that there should be pressure to define what the exit plan is, even if tat does just mean getting Boris to say "wait for the 22nd" again.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    People who live somewhere they really love (eg Wales) are just not interested in holidays at all.

    It seems it is mainly the Londoners who can't want to get out of the place & go on their skiing holidays or their cheap holiday in the Sun. :wink:
    I don’t think that is true. Living in a holiday destination myself, I love spending the high summer here. But still look forward to travelling Europe in May and September, which are the best months to travel there anyway. My May trip is already booked (on free cancellation terms) and is right now looking distinctly 50:50.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Early data from ZOE app about vaccinations,

    youtube.com/watch?v=vReTwfEithg

    Really interesting, thanks for posting. It does sound like great news, 68% efficacy against symptoms would be close to 100% efficacy against severe symptoms, hospitalisation and death. The government has been absolutely vindicated in its 12 week gap strategy IMO and from the 20th of Feb we'll begin to ramp up second doses as well further ensuring no chance of people being hospitalised.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.
    I'd love to see data that mapped that question onto people's views on the world. Is it the Knights of Gammon who are the authoritarian lovers or the Warriors of Woke?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I didn't see the presser but the idea that journalists shouldn't ask the question is:

    ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

    This is a major issue that is exercising the mind of much of the public, and with good reason.

    PBers has a hugely disproportion faction that aren't bothered about getting away.

    Are people really clamouring for this? Polls suggest otherwise.
    If my friends' WhatsApp group is anything to go by, absolutely.

    People in low-risk groups 50 and under, and with families, are wanting to get away. Not now, but in the summer, even if it's within the UK.

    It is absolutely valid that these questions are asked and that pressure is kept up on the government.

    There is a hugely disproportionate representation on PB of people who are relatively sanguine about lockdown, aren't bothered about holidays and rarely get out much even in normal times.

    The judgemental attitude on here is nauseating.

    Nothing wrong with wanting a holiday – wanting something to look forward to.

    I hope the questions continue to be asked, regularly.
    Anecdote vs. data.
    Even if only 30% of UK people want to plan a holiday in 2021, that's 20 million people.

    I don't have the data but of those people who normally take holidays, I wonder how many want to take a holiday this year?

    Those who never normally take a holiday are irrelevant to this question.

    Same phenomenon that shows that people without school age children advocate the closure of schools, and people who never visit pubs advocate the closure of pubs.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    DougSeal said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    Time for my daily reminder that SA, new variant or no, is significantly closer to ending the epidemic within its own border than the United Kingdom is


    It's absolutely remarkable!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Argh!!! Hols again!


    What's wrong with asking this exactly?

    You have a chance to ask a question directly to the PM and the country's top boffin. A very privileged position.

    Do you ask about vaccine efficacy? Do you ask about new variants? Do you ask about safeguards, the functionality of Test & Trace or secondary impacts on the functioning of the NHS? No. You say "When can I book my summer holiday?" That's what is wrong with it.
    Yes, but vaccine efficacy and variant questions were asked anyway, so I'm not really seeing the issue. I prefer to see the journalists react to what other journalists have previously asked, rather than steadfastly asking the same question and eliciting the same answer.

    But what's maybe more pertinent rather than hoilidays per se is just general freedoms, as someone said below you can't get a hair cut, can't go out for a meal or a gym session or a swim or meet someone else indoors or whatever.

    Pretty reasonable at this stage that there should be pressure to define what the exit plan is, even if tat does just mean getting Boris to say "wait for the 22nd" again.
    Spot on.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited February 2021
    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    Very persuasive mix of video and advocacy from the Dems impeachment team

    It certainly seems like Trump's lawyers had a terrible day but the numbers are just not there. Only 1 more defector and even he seems unlikely to convict.
    It isn’t impossible that a Senator might vote against the trial then vote to convict. We’ll have to see now risible the defence case proves to be.

    They do all know their votes will go down on history, either way.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    On summer holidays, why can't BJ just give a straight answer? Here's his script, easy:

    It's too early to say whether summer holidays will be allowed. If you book now, there is a risk that the holiday will not be allowed. That risk is higher for a holiday abroad than for one in the UK; but even UK holidays would be at risk is there is a resurgence in the virus. I really hope that in a few weeks I can give a more positive answer. Carrie and I have not booked a holiday.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.
    The cases will be prosecuted under the Forgery Act. It could be worse - until 1832 forgery carried the death panalty. In 1805 some poor guy called Richard HArding was hanged for forging the stamp duty seal that was required to be carried on packs of playing cards.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Looks like they have a lockdown AND a curfew in SA currently.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.

    This site would be a prime recruiting ground.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    FF43 said:

    Now this IS interesting. Apparently people were already woke way back in 1899. They objected to Cecil Rhodes of statue fame being given an honorary degree by Oxford University because Black Lives Matter

    https://twitter.com/AsheLaura/status/1359097874135547907

    That's an interesting insight. I have a theory that the statue in Bristol was put there deliberately to 'provoke the woke' of the era, because it went up well after slavery abolition, and the caption with it is so unremittingly adoring. There was a big debate at the time between the abolitionist 'chattering classes' and the more red in tooth and claw imperialists (who accused the former group of caring little about the condition of the domestic poor). I didn't think this was a good reason to tear it down though - makes it more interesting historically in my opinion. Contrasting it with a memorial to slaves would have been far more fitting and interesting.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Impeachment managers explaining how Trump set up the case for the election being stolen well in advance of the election.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.
    The cases will be prosecuted under the Forgery Act. It could be worse - until 1832 forgery carried the death panalty. In 1805 some poor guy called Richard HArding was hanged for forging the stamp duty seal that was required to be carried on packs of playing cards.
    It's a dreadful run of luck when being named Dick Harding turns out to be the least of your misfortunes in life.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    On summer holidays, why can't BJ just give a straight answer? Here's his script, easy:

    It's too early to say whether summer holidays will be allowed. If you book now, there is a risk that the holiday will not be allowed. That risk is higher for a holiday abroad than for one in the UK; but even UK holidays would be at risk is there is a resurgence in the virus. I really hope that in a few weeks I can give a more positive answer. Carrie and I have not booked a holiday.

    He's incapable of giving a straight answer. His whole character is to dither and obfuscate until the very last minute.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Six O'Clock News leading with holidays (after cladding).

    They really are a ****ing disgrace.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    BBC still banging on about holidays

    They understand holibobs.....
    More important than holiday travel is business travel. We need to be global Britain - out there making deals.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I didn't see the presser but the idea that journalists shouldn't ask the question is:

    ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

    This is a major issue that is exercising the mind of much of the public, and with good reason.

    PBers has a hugely disproportion faction that aren't bothered about getting away.

    Are people really clamouring for this? Polls suggest otherwise.
    If my friends' WhatsApp group is anything to go by, absolutely.

    People in low-risk groups 50 and under, and with families, are wanting to get away. Not now, but in the summer, even if it's within the UK.

    It is absolutely valid that these questions are asked and that pressure is kept up on the government.

    There is a hugely disproportionate representation on PB of people who are relatively sanguine about lockdown, aren't bothered about holidays and rarely get out much even in normal times.

    The judgemental attitude on here is nauseating.

    Nothing wrong with wanting a holiday – wanting something to look forward to.

    I hope the questions continue to be asked, regularly.
    Anecdote vs. data.
    Even if only 30% of UK people want to plan a holiday in 2021, that's 20 million people.

    I don't have the data but of those people who normally take holidays, I wonder how many want to take a holiday this year?

    Those who never normally take a holiday are irrelevant to this question.

    Same phenomenon that shows that people without school age children advocate the closure of schools, and people who never visit pubs advocate the closure of pubs.
    I just would pose a polite question

    Is there any reason why you cannot make your own decision based on present circumstances and make sure the tour operator offers a full refund if restrictions are still in place
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited February 2021

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.

    This site would be a prime recruiting ground.
    As we know, this populist government takes a lot of notice of polls and focus groups. Trouble is the majority of individuals who participate in both don`t go abroad every year. There must be a high degree of resentment against those who do in these polls. I effing hate populism. 51% say ten years is about right? 13% not harsh enough? Unbelievable. What a shite country we live in.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Looks like they have a lockdown AND a curfew in SA currently.

    It was relaxed about 10 days ago. There is a theory there that the lockdown in the slums there made things worse - people living on top of each other simply cannot socially distance with no-where to go - which has resulted in early signs of herd immunity. That theory will be tested within the next week if cases start to go back up again as a result of that relaxation.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    Very persuasive mix of video and advocacy from the Dems impeachment team

    It certainly seems like Trump's lawyers had a terrible day but the numbers are just not there. Only 1 more defector and even he seems unlikely to convict.
    It isn’t impossible that a Senator might vote against the trial then vote to convict. We’ll have to see now risible the defence case proves to be.

    They do all know their votes will go down on history, either way.
    I might be entirely wrong on this but all the data, anecdotal stuff etc suggests there would be a very large block of GOP voters who would look very dimly on any Republican Senator who voted for impeachment. Of the 5 often cited as the anti-Trump block, one is retiring (Toomey), three come from states where they have strong enough bases to reject Trump (Romney, Collins and Murkowski) with only one (arguably) at risk from de-selection (Sasse).

    There is also a large block of people on the right who said Trump's speech was inflammatory and that his claims of election fraud were wrong but are also against this trial because they see it as double standards. Why single out Trump's words they say when people like Kamala Harris were using words that could similarly be interpreted as inciting violence and trouble. Which is why Rand Paul is talking about impeaching Chuck Schumer for his words about Kavanaugh and the other justices on the steps of the SC and where Judge Roberts rebuked Schumer.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited February 2021
    The laughter you hear is from Barnard's Castle.

    https://twitter.com/HarriLine/status/1359564484982034440
  • JonathanD said:

    BBC still banging on about holidays

    They understand holibobs.....
    More important than holiday travel is business travel. We need to be global Britain - out there making deals.
    Actually Liz Truss is doing just that
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209
    MrEd said:

    How long before someone demands it be called "People Force"?
    Ed.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I didn't see the presser but the idea that journalists shouldn't ask the question is:

    ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

    This is a major issue that is exercising the mind of much of the public, and with good reason.

    PBers has a hugely disproportion faction that aren't bothered about getting away.

    Are people really clamouring for this? Polls suggest otherwise.
    If my friends' WhatsApp group is anything to go by, absolutely.

    People in low-risk groups 50 and under, and with families, are wanting to get away. Not now, but in the summer, even if it's within the UK.

    It is absolutely valid that these questions are asked and that pressure is kept up on the government.

    There is a hugely disproportionate representation on PB of people who are relatively sanguine about lockdown, aren't bothered about holidays and rarely get out much even in normal times.

    The judgemental attitude on here is nauseating.

    Nothing wrong with wanting a holiday – wanting something to look forward to.

    I hope the questions continue to be asked, regularly.
    Anecdote vs. data.
    Even if only 30% of UK people want to plan a holiday in 2021, that's 20 million people.

    I don't have the data but of those people who normally take holidays, I wonder how many want to take a holiday this year?

    Those who never normally take a holiday are irrelevant to this question.

    Same phenomenon that shows that people without school age children advocate the closure of schools, and people who never visit pubs advocate the closure of pubs.
    I want to take a holiday abroad. I normally travel several times a year. I even managed to get away twice last year. I expect I will be able to go on holiday this year. I don't know where, I don't know when. I will make plans (much) closer to the event. Seems a reasonable attitude to me. Airlines and hoteliers will be desperate for customers and there should be plenty of good short notice deals available.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Radio 6 playing Underworld Second Toughest in the Infants in full. I am happy.
    Teenager is not impressed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209
    IanB2 said:

    Impeachment managers explaining how Trump set up the case for the election being stolen well in advance of the election.

    Which he did.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    Very persuasive mix of video and advocacy from the Dems impeachment team

    It certainly seems like Trump's lawyers had a terrible day but the numbers are just not there. Only 1 more defector and even he seems unlikely to convict.
    I think this is aimed at the court of public opinion rather than the Senate. I wonder how he managed to stay out of trouble for so long given the quality of legal representation he has been getting.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,086
    edited February 2021
    DougSeal said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    Time for my daily reminder that SA, new variant or no, is significantly closer to ending the epidemic within its own border than the United Kingdom is


    I find the different case and death curves we see fascinating. If I ever finish some things I am working on, I have some ideas about analysing this vast data.
  • It will be quite close, but I think the government should beat the target by approx 300k, assuming no more acceleration. It might reach 15 million by Sunday without requiring the final counting day on Monday.

    If it has a bumper weekend, it could smash the target.

    Having spoken to staff at the vaccine site in Bath, I now believe we are trying hard to ensure NO-ONE in categories 1-4 has not had the chance of a jab by the 15th, to prevent the inevitable wankers in the media proclaiming Government lies about vaccination, when they claim to have done all in 1-4. (Awful sentence construction...).
    They could clearly have done many more in Bath this week, but I think they are holding back from calling say over 65 or over 60s up until the 1-4 are complete.
    That would be a little disappointing. More death and disease would be prevented by getting on with some of groups 5-6 now, but if you're right then politics is causing them to do the suboptimal thing. At least it's not a huge difference and hopefully they will be increasing the rate soon.

    On a personal note, one (not very close) member of my family is now on a ventilator, and being considered for ECMO. He's only 40, wife and two kids.

    --AS
    Sorry to hear that and I hope they pull through. One of the reasons I was so happy to be jabbed today.

    I'd love to be wrong about the jabbing, but it was really stark how quiet they were this week, and being directly told they wanted to drag people of the street to jab them.*

    *Tricky - the racecourse is 3 miles out of Bath, but the thought stands!
    Under-70s are being done in some areas, some friends have been called in for their jabs in Farnham
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209
    edited February 2021
    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.

    This site would be a prime recruiting ground.
    As we know, this populist government takes a lot of notice of polls and focus groups. Trouble is the majority of individuals who participate in both don`t go abroad every year. There must be a high degree of resentment against those who do in these polls. I effing hate populism. 51% say ten years is about right? 13% not harsh enough? Unbelievable. What a shite country we live in.
    For some, closing the borders is not so much a requirement of fighting Covid as a substantial fringe benefit.
  • FF43 said:

    Now this IS interesting. Apparently people were already woke way back in 1899. They objected to Cecil Rhodes of statue fame being given an honorary degree by Oxford University because Black Lives Matter

    https://twitter.com/AsheLaura/status/1359097874135547907

    That's an interesting insight. I have a theory that the statue in Bristol was put there deliberately to 'provoke the woke' of the era, because it went up well after slavery abolition, and the caption with it is so unremittingly adoring. There was a big debate at the time between the abolitionist 'chattering classes' and the more red in tooth and claw imperialists (who accused the former group of caring little about the condition of the domestic poor). I didn't think this was a good reason to tear it down though - makes it more interesting historically in my opinion. Contrasting it with a memorial to slaves would have been far more fitting and interesting.
    One of the things about Colston and others is that, even in their own time let alone subsequently, they were controversial figures. Slavery had been illegal in Britain for centuries, and everyone (them included) knew they were involved in a dark (albeit technically legal) business involving the abduction and trafficking of human beings, in the course of which death was common and misery guaranteed.

    They weren't the victims of changing fashions that meant that long after their deaths people decided they were dodgy in a way they couldn't possibly have predicted. They were always dodgy, and their philanthropy was largely about buying a sort of civic respectability that everyone knew their behaviour didn't merit.

    No doubt there are individuals who fall into the category of being victims of changing fashions. But they certainly aren't all like that, and Colston is a good example. And I'd not defend vandalism, but Bristol City Council did have decades to sort out a readily resolvable matter in a diverse city, and did a bloody useless job of listening to people and sorting it out.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    DougSeal said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    Time for my daily reminder that SA, new variant or no, is significantly closer to ending the epidemic within its own border than the United Kingdom is


    I find the different case and death curves we see fascinating. If I ever finish some things I am working on, I have some ideas about analysing this vast data.
    I do wonder how much of the differences you'd see are just artefacts in how countries collect and report data. My experience suggests that datasets from different countries are hard to compare at the best of times, even if they've ostensibly been compiled by the same people using a consistent methodology.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    DougSeal said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    Very persuasive mix of video and advocacy from the Dems impeachment team

    It certainly seems like Trump's lawyers had a terrible day but the numbers are just not there. Only 1 more defector and even he seems unlikely to convict.
    I think this is aimed at the court of public opinion rather than the Senate. I wonder how he managed to stay out of trouble for so long given the quality of legal representation he has been getting.
    A lot of lawyers have been effectively scared off working for Trump because any who do will face a serious stain against their future career
  • Upto 10 years for breaking the rules is ridiculous, but i doubt we are going to see a single person get anywhere near that. A few months at most I reckon, unless they are literally found to be constantly doing this like some cross between Simon Caulder and Piers Corbyn.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    HYUFD said:
    Someone on social media re above:

    "Average night in prison costs £118 to a UK tax payer.

    £430,700 overall cost to tax payers. "
  • Argh!!! Hols again!


    What's wrong with asking this exactly?

    I can't get a haircut, go to any number of shops, have a cup of tea in cafe, travel any distance from my house, or go out for pretty much any reason other than exercise or propping up elderly relatives. Most importantly, children aren't in school.

    Given that, journalists asking about going on holiday is ... rather annoying.
    I'm not too bothered about haircuts, shopping or cafes. I quite like working from home. I rather miss the pub, and holidays, though. We all have different things we are missing.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.

    This site would be a prime recruiting ground.
    As we know, this populist government takes a lot of notice of polls and focus groups. Trouble is the majority of individuals who participate in both don`t go abroad every year. There must be a high degree of resentment against those who do in these polls. I effing hate populism. 51% say ten years is about right? 13% not harsh enough? Unbelievable. What a shite country we live in.
    For some, closing the borders is not so much a requirement of fighting Covid as a substantial fringe benefit.
    Running a country based on the opinions of people living in Boston, Lincs, is almost certainly a sub optimal strategy.
  • Endillion said:

    DougSeal said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    Time for my daily reminder that SA, new variant or no, is significantly closer to ending the epidemic within its own border than the United Kingdom is


    I find the different case and death curves we see fascinating. If I ever finish some things I am working on, I have some ideas about analysing this vast data.
    I do wonder how much of the differences you'd see are just artefacts in how countries collect and report data. My experience suggests that datasets from different countries are hard to compare at the best of times, even if they've ostensibly been compiled by the same people using a consistent methodology.
    That's one of the things i am interested in looking into.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited February 2021

    BBC still banging on about holidays

    So what?
    So what yourself - you seem to care more about this issue than anyone, so why care if others also care but take a different stance? Saying everyone is the worst for it is an oddly judgey stance to take as well.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    DougSeal said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    Time for my daily reminder that SA, new variant or no, is significantly closer to ending the epidemic within its own border than the United Kingdom is


    I find the different case and death curves we see fascinating. If I ever finish some things I am working on, I have some ideas about analysing this vast data.
    Spain's is an odd one.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.

    This site would be a prime recruiting ground.
    As we know, this populist government takes a lot of notice of polls and focus groups. Trouble is the majority of individuals who participate in both don`t go abroad every year. There must be a high degree of resentment against those who do in these polls. I effing hate populism. 51% say ten years is about right? 13% not harsh enough? Unbelievable. What a shite country we live in.
    For some, closing the borders is not so much a requirement of fighting Covid as a substantial fringe benefit.
    Absolutely right. You`re going up in estimation these days! (I`d now do a smiley thing and a wink emoji but I don`t know how.)
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,550
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.
    I hope they are all having a laugh, but have an awful feeling some of them
    aren't.

    What should be the max penalty for failing to renew a TV licence? Limb removal? 25 years? Death? £100,000 fine? It might be worth a try to see what answers you get.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    It does strike me that the reaction to this pandemic is probably one unique to our age. In the Spanish Flu pandemic there were grim statistics piling up in your newspaper every morning but they were just that - statistics. You see the same thing in Defoe's "Journal of the Plague Year" (although he wrote it after the event) but here we have the immediacy of the visual representation of actual people, rather than numbers, beamed to our screens 24/7. You see the lives behind the statistics. That has informed the government's reaction in a way that it would not have done in earlier generations. I reckon as recently as the 90s a lockdown of this severity would not have happened - hell before 2005 how many people could work from home using dial-up?
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I didn't see the presser but the idea that journalists shouldn't ask the question is:

    ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

    This is a major issue that is exercising the mind of much of the public, and with good reason.

    PBers has a hugely disproportion faction that aren't bothered about getting away.

    Are people really clamouring for this? Polls suggest otherwise.
    If my friends' WhatsApp group is anything to go by, absolutely.

    People in low-risk groups 50 and under, and with families, are wanting to get away. Not now, but in the summer, even if it's within the UK.

    It is absolutely valid that these questions are asked and that pressure is kept up on the government.

    There is a hugely disproportionate representation on PB of people who are relatively sanguine about lockdown, aren't bothered about holidays and rarely get out much even in normal times.

    The judgemental attitude on here is nauseating.

    Nothing wrong with wanting a holiday – wanting something to look forward to.

    I hope the questions continue to be asked, regularly.
    Anecdote vs. data.
    Even if only 30% of UK people want to plan a holiday in 2021, that's 20 million people.

    I don't have the data but of those people who normally take holidays, I wonder how many want to take a holiday this year?

    Those who never normally take a holiday are irrelevant to this question.

    Same phenomenon that shows that people without school age children advocate the closure of schools, and people who never visit pubs advocate the closure of pubs.
    It was asked and clearly answered at the Downing Street briefing. Boris supported Grant.

    In fact with the “it’s currently illegal” opening line on the hymn sheet they are both clearly on message almost word for word. Don’t book any holiday of any kind just yet.

    And to defend Matt Hancock (old library footage of him) as well, maybe thinking has changed in the last week or so.

    So it’s not flip flopping, just cautious and not getting ahead of itself on messaging.

    Nor is it a muddled message. Don’t book anything now at all.

    Stop trying to inject some hyperbole into something calm and straightforward.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    On topic but a little nerdy or geeky. There will be a reduction from 10 to 2 for nominations for candidates. But this year we will have a lot of multiple election in many wards. Can the same 2 people nominate more than one candidate?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    JonathanD said:

    BBC still banging on about holidays

    They understand holibobs.....
    More important than holiday travel is business travel. We need to be global Britain - out there making deals.
    I read about some business meetings on the Tyrolean ski slopes last week, followed by some hard bargaining over a meal and drinks in the evening at a business only hotel.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:
    Someone on social media re above:

    "Average night in prison costs £118 to a UK tax payer.

    £430,700 overall cost to tax payers. "
    And how much does a new three month lockdown cost if one of these idiots brings back a vaccine evading mutation and lies to avoid the quarantine?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,879
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.
    I hope they are all having a laugh, but have an awful feeling some of them
    aren't.

    What should be the max penalty for failing to renew a TV licence? Limb removal? 25 years? Death? £100,000 fine? It might be worth a try to see what answers you get.
    Castration. And having your head then cut off and mounted on Broadcasting House, above the main door. The plinth of the Epstein statue would do nicely. Just add an abatis of sharpened stakes ready for the first comers.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1359551718594338821

    PB. They shouldn't ask that question..!!!

    It's a dumb question. Who on earth wants to go on a foreign holiday in the middle of a global pandemic?
    I do. I want to be somewhere hot.
    Summer in Cape Town or Rio?

    Obviously not, you do write some facetious shite.

    How about France in June half term or Majorca in September? These are reasonable questions to ask even if the answer is no.
    Time for my daily reminder that SA, new variant or no, is significantly closer to ending the epidemic within its own border than the United Kingdom is


    I find the different case and death curves we see fascinating. If I ever finish some things I am working on, I have some ideas about analysing this vast data.
    Farr's Law is probably a fallacy but, globally, if there is any truth in it, the pandemic should be coming to an end in about 10 months from now.


  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    MaxPB said:

    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:
    Someone on social media re above:

    "Average night in prison costs £118 to a UK tax payer.

    £430,700 overall cost to tax payers. "
    And how much does a new three month lockdown cost if one of these idiots brings back a vaccine evading mutation and lies to avoid the quarantine?
    I knew someone would say something like that. I didn`t expect it to be you though, Max.

    We`re never getting out of this are we. UK is starting to feel like prison.
  • Tests levelling off....


    The leading indicator - the daily reported case rate - has dropped to the level of around 4 months ago in early October. Then cases were rising rapidly, now they're falling rapidly. And we're conducting roughly 2.5 times the number of tests than we did then, so there will be more false positives in the latest figures, as well as more true positives being revealed just due to the volume of testing.

    The death rate by actual date of death is now well below the peak of last Spring and also falling at a much faster rate.

    If this positive trend continues unchanged for much longer, I don't think the Government will be able to maintain the line that things should stay exactly as they are for at least another month.
    Yup. That is Johnson's problem now.

    Looks like Sturgeon and Drakeford were right on schools.
    There's a date in the diary for schools now: 08 March.

    For most normal people once there's a date in the diary people can and will plan for that date - there won't be much pressure whatsoever to change the date once the date is in the diary because people will be setting their plans for that date. Schools will be putting plans in place for that date already.

    If there was no date then of course people would be wanting something said, but that ship has sailed now. There's a date - its a few weeks off, but people have it in their diary and will work towards that. Chopping and changing that now isn't going to happen. It would really mess schools around to change it now.
    OK, I could have added "minus two days" to my quote to cater for schools in England. But I'm also mindful that Johnson has said something to the effect that other restrictions will not be eased until AFTER schools are back, so that's more than a month, and that's what is going to fracture public consent.

    Why for example is any form of outdoor recreation still going to be banned until what looks like mid-March based on current pronouncements? Even those sports involving just two people that are naturally socially distanced such as pairs golf and singles tennis, which would take place in areas which are currently deserted as people all crowd into the same public parks instead. (In contrast to jogging and cycling which seem designed to maximise the rate of contacts with people albeit fleeting ones.) Or how about just being able to sit down a suitable distance with both of your (vaccinated) parents in a public park? There are many marginal restrictions that were questionable in the first place and which could be brought back now to make the misery of lockdown just a bit more tolerable. The failure to countenance any relaxation whatsoever for another month risks undermining adherence to the rules in general.
  • BBC News - Covid: Care staff vaccinations 'lagging behind target'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56012869
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.
    I hope they are all having a laugh, but have an awful feeling some of them
    aren't.

    What should be the max penalty for failing to renew a TV licence? Limb removal? 25 years? Death? £100,000 fine? It might be worth a try to see what answers you get.
    All of the above. In order....

    1) £100,000 fine
    2) Limb removal
    3) 25 years
    4) Death
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    13% not harsh enough ?

    You can see why authoritarian regimes have no problem finding bodies to do the enforcing.
    I hope they are all having a laugh, but have an awful feeling some of them
    aren't.

    What should be the max penalty for failing to renew a TV licence? Limb removal? 25 years? Death? £100,000 fine? It might be worth a try to see what answers you get.
    Never mind the TV licence, what about pineapple on pizza?!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    FF43 said:

    Now this IS interesting. Apparently people were already woke way back in 1899. They objected to Cecil Rhodes of statue fame being given an honorary degree by Oxford University because Black Lives Matter

    https://twitter.com/AsheLaura/status/1359097874135547907

    That's an interesting insight. I have a theory that the statue in Bristol was put there deliberately to 'provoke the woke' of the era, because it went up well after slavery abolition, and the caption with it is so unremittingly adoring. There was a big debate at the time between the abolitionist 'chattering classes' and the more red in tooth and claw imperialists (who accused the former group of caring little about the condition of the domestic poor). I didn't think this was a good reason to tear it down though - makes it more interesting historically in my opinion. Contrasting it with a memorial to slaves would have been far more fitting and interesting.
    One of the things about Colston and others is that, even in their own time let alone subsequently, they were controversial figures. Slavery had been illegal in Britain for centuries, and everyone (them included) knew they were involved in a dark (albeit technically legal) business involving the abduction and trafficking of human beings, in the course of which death was common and misery guaranteed.

    They weren't the victims of changing fashions that meant that long after their deaths people decided they were dodgy in a way they couldn't possibly have predicted. They were always dodgy, and their philanthropy was largely about buying a sort of civic respectability that everyone knew their behaviour didn't merit.

    No doubt there are individuals who fall into the category of being victims of changing fashions. But they certainly aren't all like that, and Colston is a good example. And I'd not defend vandalism, but Bristol City Council did have decades to sort out a readily resolvable matter in a diverse city, and did a bloody useless job of listening to people and sorting it out.
    "Slavery had been illegal in Britain for centuries" is kinda not the point, cos that's not where the money was. I think slave trade related activity was much more mainstream than you suggest: who was building and manning the (specially designed) slave ships, forging the shackles to put the slaves in and producing the trade goods with which they were bought, and consuming the tea and sugar from the plantations?
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited February 2021
    DougSeal said:

    It does strike me that the reaction to this pandemic is probably one unique to our age. In the Spanish Flu pandemic there were grim statistics piling up in your newspaper every morning but they were just that - statistics. You see the same thing in Defoe's "Journal of the Plague Year" (although he wrote it after the event) but here we have the immediacy of the visual representation of actual people, rather than numbers, beamed to our screens 24/7. You see the lives behind the statistics. That has informed the government's reaction in a way that it would not have done in earlier generations. I reckon as recently as the 90s a lockdown of this severity would not have happened - hell before 2005 how many people could work from home using dial-up?

    “ immediacy of the visual representation of actual people, as cats , beamed to our screens 24/7. “

    Corrected it for you. 😃

    Maybe Spanish Flu is poor bench mark because of the distraction of the war? E.g. without the war on would response have been exactly the same.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    JonathanD said:

    BBC still banging on about holidays

    They understand holibobs.....
    More important than holiday travel is business travel. We need to be global Britain - out there making deals.
    Actually Liz Truss is doing just that
    Nice try.

    I'm still smarting at her cars for cheese contra deal with the lactose intolerant Japanese.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Stocky said:

    MaxPB said:

    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:
    Someone on social media re above:

    "Average night in prison costs £118 to a UK tax payer.

    £430,700 overall cost to tax payers. "
    And how much does a new three month lockdown cost if one of these idiots brings back a vaccine evading mutation and lies to avoid the quarantine?
    I knew someone would say something like that. I didn`t expect it to be you though, Max.

    We`re never getting out of this are we. UK is starting to feel like prison.
    No, we want to get out of this as soon as humanly possible. Given that the importation of a new vaccine-resistant strain at this point could mean the difference between opening back up and endless lockdown for the whole country, like any good (temporary) Benthamite I think we can briefly curtail the frivolities of the few to ensure the freedom of the many.
  • JonathanD said:

    BBC still banging on about holidays

    They understand holibobs.....
    More important than holiday travel is business travel. We need to be global Britain - out there making deals.
    Actually Liz Truss is doing just that
    Nice try.

    I'm still smarting at her cars for cheese contra deal with the lactose intolerant Japanese.
    There's no lactose in cheese
This discussion has been closed.