1. Norman Lewis - Jackdaw Cake (his autobiography) and Naples '44 (from his time as an Intelligence Officer in Naples in 1944) are superb but all his travel writing (which understates the quality of his writing) is magnificent.
2. William Trevor: "The Old Boys", "The Children of Dynmouth" and "Felicia's Journey" are 3 of his best novels. Also "Fools of Fortune". And he is the absolute master of the short story. Get his Collected Stories. Each of them a marvel. No-one writes about evil better or about sad, ordinary, half-fulfilled lives or pins down the absurdities and hypocrisies of every-day life. And he can be laugh-out loud funny too. Lots of his work has been made into films - especially by the BBC in the days when they did such things.
3. J G Farrell: "Troubles" is wonderful. But all three of his novels are good. He died in a fishing accident off the coast of Ireland much too young.
4. JG McGahern: "Amongst Women" and "That They May Face the Rising Sun" are both wonderful. Some of his earlier novels like "The Barracks" tell you all you need to know about the dark underbelly of Irish domestic life. His "Memoir" is a love letter to his mother. The contrast between the relationship he had with his mother who died too young and the brutality and callousness of his father is unbearable but so well written.
Present-day writers I cannot abide: Hilary Mantel, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis.
I have heard J G Farrell is great, you might have suaded me to try him.
Another one in favour of JG Farrell - he writes very well, and funnily of the British Empire in extremis - in The Siege of Krishnapur as the British get increasingly desperate and retreat further and further into the residence they run out of canon balls and are reduced to loading the canons with cutlery - he describes how a brave Sikh is "plucked from this world by a pair of sugar tongs embedded in his skull". What he would have made of Brexit, goodness only knows, but it would have been entertaining and well worth reading.
You dud notice the phrase “equal access” in there ?
People dont read the details anymore, trigger words set them off on rants and re-enforce the divide. The equal policy is good but the messaging was poor.
If it's equal access why is there any focus?
What Biden is talking about, probably, is the existing system for preferentially giving government contracts to companies owned by the groups he mentioned.
In the standard corruption in the US political gravy train, the system is quite often scammed. So a company appears to be owned by a Native American, say. But the actual profits go to people who... aren't.
The classic methodology for this is the contracting out shell game. The company owned by the front person contracts all the work it receives out. It makes a tiny profit. The companies it gives work to make nice fat profits.
He's a fecking politician, you moron. Jeez. He is meant to lead. To be seen, out and about, despite all our horrors. Like Churchill visiting bomb sites.
If he didn't do this, this person would be jumping on him, saying he's hiding away. Ludicrous.
I am not outraged by it. It's a judgment call, but if Johnson sees his "essential work" being messaging, I would call for "stay at home" being a more important message for him to give than " here I am, opening a vaccination centre in Bristol"
But isn't getting vaccinated an equally important message?
Possibly, although Johnson seemed to emphasise sticking to the rules, presumably including not making unnecessary journeys, rather than the need to be vaccinated when you get the chance. The rest of his visit appears to have been a royal walkabout through the facility.
Not very exercised by whether he goes or doesn't go, but slightly interested in the philosophical choice.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Oh stop it!
2016 campaign was complete utter jibberish. It left everyone more confused than at the start. You are lying when you try to make out it was informative.
When have merits of CU properly debated?
People didn’t know in 2016 they would end up in a worst place because it’s still not clear today! It will take years from here for many who voted leave to appreciate their mistake.
And you bang on about it being democracy, when it wasn’t democracy. 2016 was a campaign and vote that was utter mess. Brexiteers who cling to that vote don’t respect democracy, nor honest about what they rammed through on platform of lies.
the whole point of democracy is that 52% never trumps 48%, democracy is about tolerating minority views in the big decisions for a society going forwards. What happened in ‘75 and ‘16 is nearer fascism than democracy.
representative democracy is stronger than direct democracy because it allows for more efficient scrutiny by a sufficiently small number of people with time and skills, who have maturity of judgment and unbiased in opinion to go into forensic depth and come to a more enlightened conclusion on behalf of all people and points of view. key difference between direct and representative forms of democracy is representatives not simply to communicate the wishes of the electorate but to use their own judgment in the exercise of their powers, even if their views are not reflective of those of a majority of voters, but the voters can still remove them.
Like ‘75, ‘16 was bogus democracy masquerading as and usurping democracy.
A few points
Since you are talking specifically about the 2016 vote rather than what happened afterwards, how do you tolerate a minority view in a binary question? You can't. Either one side wins or the other does.
You do realise that it is legally impossible under the basic treaties governing the existence of the EU for us to remain part of the Customs Union without being members of the EU?
I am afraid your view of democracy appears to be that people are too stupid to make decisions for themselves and so should not be allowed to. When the representatives stop serving the people and are only interested in serving themselves and their own partial views then representative democracy is no longer working. That was undoubtedly the case in 2016 which was why it was necessary to have a direct vote on a matter the representatives consistently refused to address.
The only thing bogus is your claim to be interested in democracy. You are not. You are only interested in getting what you want and fuck anyone else who disagrees with you. You are as bad as Johnson and the rest of the politicians on both sides.
He's a fecking politician, you moron. Jeez. He is meant to lead. To be seen, out and about, despite all our horrors. Like Churchill visiting bomb sites.
If he didn't do this, this person would be jumping on him, saying he's hiding away. Ludicrous.
I am not outraged by it. It's a judgment call, but if Johnson sees his "essential work" being messaging, I would call for "stay at home" being a more important message for him to give than " here I am, opening a vaccination centre in Bristol"
But isn't getting vaccinated an equally important message?
Possibly, although Johnson seemed to emphasise sticking to the rules, presumably including not making unnecessary journeys, rather than the need to be vaccinated when you get the chance. The rest of his visit appears to have been a royal walkabout through the facility.
Not very exercised by whether he goes or doesn't go, but slightly interested in the philosophical choice.
Possibly? lol. With the rise of anti-vaxers I think it is really important.
1. Norman Lewis - Jackdaw Cake (his autobiography) and Naples '44 (from his time as an Intelligence Officer in Naples in 1944) are superb but all his travel writing (which understates the quality of his writing) is magnificent.
2. William Trevor: "The Old Boys", "The Children of Dynmouth" and "Felicia's Journey" are 3 of his best novels. Also "Fools of Fortune". And he is the absolute master of the short story. Get his Collected Stories. Each of them a marvel. No-one writes about evil better or about sad, ordinary, half-fulfilled lives or pins down the absurdities and hypocrisies of every-day life. And he can be laugh-out loud funny too. Lots of his work has been made into films - especially by the BBC in the days when they did such things.
3. J G Farrell: "Troubles" is wonderful. But all three of his novels are good. He died in a fishing accident off the coast of Ireland much too young.
4. JG McGahern: "Amongst Women" and "That They May Face the Rising Sun" are both wonderful. Some of his earlier novels like "The Barracks" tell you all you need to know about the dark underbelly of Irish domestic life. His "Memoir" is a love letter to his mother. The contrast between the relationship he had with his mother who died too young and the brutality and callousness of his father is unbearable but so well written.
Present-day writers I cannot abide: Hilary Mantel, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis.
I have heard J G Farrell is great, you might have suaded me to try him.
Another one in favour of JG Farrell - he writes very well, and funnily of the British Empire in extremis - in The Siege of Krishnapur as the British get increasingly desperate and retreat further and further into the residence they run out of canon balls and are reduced to loading the canons with cutlery - he describes how a brave Sikh is "plucked from this world by a pair of sugar tongs embedded in his skull". What he would have made of Brexit, goodness only knows, but it would have been entertaining and well worth reading.
Did you watch The Singapore Grip televisualisation in the end? I thought it was an absolute stinker.
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
You dud notice the phrase “equal access” in there ?
His priorities however specifically excluded white men and that was deliberate.
This is exactly what I feared would happen if the Democrats took control of Congress as well as the Presidency. Now they have complete power forget unity, Biden, Pelosi and Schumer are going to get their revenge on Trump and his supporters, first by impeaching and removing the President and then by running a government specifically targeted to reduce the influence of white men in the US rather than providing equal opportunity for all regardless of race or gender.
How raging would you be as a white man having voted for Biden with one of those fantasy votes that you have?!
I would have voted for Biden but also for a GOP Congress precisely to ensure neither side got complete power but had to come together and compromise
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
I am currently doing 50-60km a day on my bike....I would be in big trouble if it wasn't a stationary one in my home gym.
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
Every cyclist I know would consider 7 miles to be barely warmed up. There's no way an average person would do 7 miles in 21 minutes though !
1. Norman Lewis - Jackdaw Cake (his autobiography) and Naples '44 (from his time as an Intelligence Officer in Naples in 1944) are superb but all his travel writing (which understates the quality of his writing) is magnificent.
2. William Trevor: "The Old Boys", "The Children of Dynmouth" and "Felicia's Journey" are 3 of his best novels. Also "Fools of Fortune". And he is the absolute master of the short story. Get his Collected Stories. Each of them a marvel. No-one writes about evil better or about sad, ordinary, half-fulfilled lives or pins down the absurdities and hypocrisies of every-day life. And he can be laugh-out loud funny too. Lots of his work has been made into films - especially by the BBC in the days when they did such things.
3. J G Farrell: "Troubles" is wonderful. But all three of his novels are good. He died in a fishing accident off the coast of Ireland much too young.
4. JG McGahern: "Amongst Women" and "That They May Face the Rising Sun" are both wonderful. Some of his earlier novels like "The Barracks" tell you all you need to know about the dark underbelly of Irish domestic life. His "Memoir" is a love letter to his mother. The contrast between the relationship he had with his mother who died too young and the brutality and callousness of his father is unbearable but so well written.
Present-day writers I cannot abide: Hilary Mantel, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis.
Naples '44 is one of the best war memoirs ever written. I have heard J G Farrell is great, you might have suaded me to try him.
I cannot abide Hilary Mantel, too deliberately obtuse, but Martin Amis is a magnificent stylist. He's terrible at some dialogue and fairly awful at plotting, but he's one of those writers who can conjure and polish such amazing sentences, you forgive him.
He's also extremely funny. Alongside P G Wodehouse and Irvine Welsh (once) he's one of the few writers to make me laugh out loud, very hard. This is exceptionally rare
Waugh's Scoop has me laughing out loud. Wodehouse leaves me cold I have to say.
Brian Friel is a playwright whose plays are well worth seeing. "Translations" and "Dancing at Lughnasa" are two of the finest plays I've ever seen. They've stayed with me.
I like Alan Bennett's writing: he can be both touching and very funny too.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Her point is. There is no Covid. No one dies from it. Only very fat and old people do. It will burn itself out. See it's gone. There won't be a second wave. Reopen everything, go on holiday, eat out go down the Pub. Lockdown doesn't work. Suicides are rising more than Covid deaths. Schools are safe. Etc, etc.
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
No. 10 have refused to confirm that he cycled there - he may have been driven there.
You dud notice the phrase “equal access” in there ?
People dont read the details anymore, trigger words set them off on rants and re-enforce the divide. The equal policy is good but the messaging was poor.
Suggest you listen again. It may be that he actually stumbled - this is Biden after all - but the direct meaning of his speech was that they would prioritise non-white small business owners.
And "racially prioritising" "non-white" small business owners, rather than all small business-owners, is good... because..... WHY?
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Even his beloved Norway is not in the Customs Union.
I asked RP but didn't get an answer, perhaps you can provide an answer - what significantly would be different had we been in the EFTA as opposed to our deal?
Since the rules of origin, the paperwork etc are issues the EFTA has to deal with too . . . since the EFTA doesn't have a Financial Services Passport . . . since we have zero tariffs, zero quotas . . . what is actually significantly different and worse with our deal?
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
No. 10 have refused to confirm that he cycled there - he may have been driven there.
Which ceased to be against the law about 8 months ago.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Oh stop it!
2016 campaign was complete utter jibberish. It left everyone more confused than at the start. You are lying when you try to make out it was informative.
When have merits of CU properly debated?
People didn’t know in 2016 they would end up in a worst place because it’s still not clear today! It will take years from here for many who voted leave to appreciate their mistake.
And you bang on about it being democracy, when it wasn’t democracy. 2016 was a campaign and vote that was utter mess. Brexiteers who cling to that vote don’t respect democracy, nor honest about what they rammed through on platform of lies.
the whole point of democracy is that 52% never trumps 48%, democracy is about tolerating minority views in the big decisions for a society going forwards. What happened in ‘75 and ‘16 is nearer fascism than democracy.
representative democracy is stronger than direct democracy because it allows for more efficient scrutiny by a sufficiently small number of people with time and skills, who have maturity of judgment and unbiased in opinion to go into forensic depth and come to a more enlightened conclusion on behalf of all people and points of view. key difference between direct and representative forms of democracy is representatives not simply to communicate the wishes of the electorate but to use their own judgment in the exercise of their powers, even if their views are not reflective of those of a majority of voters, but the voters can still remove them.
Like ‘75, ‘16 was bogus democracy masquerading as and usurping democracy.
A few points
Since you are talking specifically about the 2016 vote rather than what happened afterwards, how do you tolerate a minority view in a binary question? You can't. Either one side wins or the other does.
You do realise that it is legally impossible under the basic treaties governing the existence of the EU for us to remain part of the Customs Union without being members of the EU?
I am afraid your view of democracy appears to be that people are too stupid to make decisions for themselves and so should not be allowed to. When the representatives stop serving the people and are only interested in serving themselves and their own partial views then representative democracy is no longer working. That was undoubtedly the case in 2016 which was why it was necessary to have a direct vote on a matter the representatives consistently refused to address.
The only thing bogus is your claim to be interested in democracy. You are not. You are only interested in getting what you want and fuck anyone else who disagrees with you. You are as bad as Johnson and the rest of the politicians on both sides.
Question. What is the difference between "the" Customs Union and "a" Customs Union...?
Christ that picture of Whitty in the bottom left is terrifying. DON'T LOOK DIRECTLY AT HI
On the other hand, if he wants to change careers he'd be perfect as the face Big Brother in a 1984 reboot (something, again, the skeptics, would love). He is watching you...and he's f*cking pissed!
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
No. 10 have refused to confirm that he cycled there - he may have been driven there.
Which ceased to be against the law about 8 months ago.
I did think if funny that he was all the way over at the Olympic Park.
Is it illegal to drive (or be driven) for exercise? I’m afraid I took the family up to Hampstead Heath on Saturday (by car) so I am as guilty as sin.
1. Norman Lewis - Jackdaw Cake (his autobiography) and Naples '44 (from his time as an Intelligence Officer in Naples in 1944) are superb but all his travel writing (which understates the quality of his writing) is magnificent.
2. William Trevor: "The Old Boys", "The Children of Dynmouth" and "Felicia's Journey" are 3 of his best novels. Also "Fools of Fortune". And he is the absolute master of the short story. Get his Collected Stories. Each of them a marvel. No-one writes about evil better or about sad, ordinary, half-fulfilled lives or pins down the absurdities and hypocrisies of every-day life. And he can be laugh-out loud funny too. Lots of his work has been made into films - especially by the BBC in the days when they did such things.
3. J G Farrell: "Troubles" is wonderful. But all three of his novels are good. He died in a fishing accident off the coast of Ireland much too young.
4. JG McGahern: "Amongst Women" and "That They May Face the Rising Sun" are both wonderful. Some of his earlier novels like "The Barracks" tell you all you need to know about the dark underbelly of Irish domestic life. His "Memoir" is a love letter to his mother. The contrast between the relationship he had with his mother who died too young and the brutality and callousness of his father is unbearable but so well written.
Present-day writers I cannot abide: Hilary Mantel, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis.
I have heard J G Farrell is great, you might have suaded me to try him.
Another one in favour of JG Farrell - he writes very well, and funnily of the British Empire in extremis - in The Siege of Krishnapur as the British get increasingly desperate and retreat further and further into the residence they run out of canon balls and are reduced to loading the canons with cutlery - he describes how a brave Sikh is "plucked from this world by a pair of sugar tongs embedded in his skull". What he would have made of Brexit, goodness only knows, but it would have been entertaining and well worth reading.
Did you watch The Singapore Grip televisualisation in the end? I thought it was an absolute stinker.
It was a stinker. Not quite sure why - it had good actors and Christopher Hampton adapted it. But it just didn't work.
The press really showing themselves up today, again we are back to we need a million rules to govern our lives otherwise nobody can cope and its all too confusing. Its very simple, don't have interactions with people that you don't need to. That really all you need to know.
The real big story of the day, it looks like vaccine roll out is going fairly well AND enough vaccines have been made to meet the demand for the first 4 groups already (although they need bottling up, the vaccines that is, not the oldies).
You dud notice the phrase “equal access” in there ?
People dont read the details anymore, trigger words set them off on rants and re-enforce the divide. The equal policy is good but the messaging was poor.
Suggest you listen again. It may be that he actually stumbled - this is Biden after all - but the direct meaning of his speech was that they would prioritise non-white small business owners.
And "racially prioritising" "non-white" small business owners, rather than all small business-owners, is good... because..... WHY?
white business owners have been prioritised in the USA for centuries it ended in Trumpism and the biggest threat to US democracy since Lincoln time for a change
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
He's a fecking politician, you moron. Jeez. He is meant to lead. To be seen, out and about, despite all our horrors. Like Churchill visiting bomb sites.
If he didn't do this, this person would be jumping on him, saying he's hiding away. Ludicrous.
I am not outraged by it. It's a judgment call, but if Johnson sees his "essential work" being messaging, I would call for "stay at home" being a more important message for him to give than " here I am, opening a vaccination centre in Bristol"
But isn't getting vaccinated an equally important message?
Possibly, although Johnson seemed to emphasise sticking to the rules, presumably including not making unnecessary journeys, rather than the need to be vaccinated when you get the chance. The rest of his visit appears to have been a royal walkabout through the facility.
Not very exercised by whether he goes or doesn't go, but slightly interested in the philosophical choice.
Possibly? lol. With the rise of anti-vaxers I think it is really important.
Actually I don't agree with that. (Which is a different question from whether Johnson was right to go to Bristol to deliver a message about the importance of getting vaccinated, which AFAIK he didn't actually deliver).
Getting vaccinated when you are offered the jab is important. Right now the critical thing is for everyone to limit their social interactions. We are seeing epidemic go out of control and our healthcare system is on the point of collapse.
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
You're right that 7 miles is peanuts and people should leave the PM alone over this; it's not even a trifle. But I don't believe the average speed is 20pmh. 20kph, possibly, over distance including having to slow down for crossings, etc. 25kph would be my guess for flat, uninterrupted, paved terrain. But >30kph in doesn't sound right to me.
EDIT: (if that's alright with Big_G_irlsBlouse) Apologies I didn't see Pulpstar's comment, to which I didn't really add much.
There's not a lot of point in 24 hour vaccination if you can use up all the available vaccine in the current hours. It doesn't get us any further, even if it might be a little bit more convenient for some. Perhaps when supplies are abundant and younger groups are being vaccinated some round the clock walk-in centres might make sense, but we ought to aim to blast through all vaccine supplies with regular hours if we can.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Even his beloved Norway is not in the Customs Union.
I asked RP but didn't get an answer, perhaps you can provide an answer - what significantly would be different had we been in the EFTA as opposed to our deal?
Since the rules of origin, the paperwork etc are issues the EFTA has to deal with too . . . since the EFTA doesn't have a Financial Services Passport . . . since we have zero tariffs, zero quotas . . . what is actually significantly different and worse with our deal?
Well for me for a start we would have still had freedom of movement and I happen to think that was a benefit not a problem. A lot of the paperwork you refer to is streamlined within the EEA. There is just a lot less of it and it is already built into the system. If we had chosen that route early then our businesses would have had a lot more time to prepare and get used to it all. As it is Johnson and the EU between them managed to make it a traditional last minute scramble which left everyone unprepared for what was to come.
I am sure the question will be asked so to make clear I will still take this over EU membership. But for me of course it was never primarily about money. But that doesn't mean I don't think that May and Johnson both made a complete dogs dinner of it and deserve no credit at all. We should have had Barnier negotiate for both sides simultaneously and we would probably have got a better deal.
The young deserve to be rewarded for their sacrifice.
I would respectfully suggest that a 45 year old with a family who has lost a job has suffered more than the youngsters you describe, as have all the medical staff that have died of the disease.
Everyone is suffering disruption to their lives to a greater or lesser extent and in different ways and we are all going to be paying for it for many years.
If it was simply about protecting the elderly the government could have legislated to keep them completely locked-down and let everyone else get on with it. However that is only a part of the problem which is precisely why no government I can see anywhere has gone up that route. There are no easy solutions to dealing with a pandemic.
I am no supporter of this Government but it seems to me that they are already compensating those who are suffering most as best they can with the furlough scheme and other initiatives.
I simply don't buy the notion that is all about the young making huge sacrifices for the old. It's just sowing division
Absolutely. And how does “it’s all for the old” square with most of those in London’s overloaded ICUs being under 60, with 90% of them having been at work beforehand?
The most recent data on hospital admissions are here
The graph on hospital admissions clearly shows that there are very, very few hospital admissions with age < 44.
There are some admissions between 45-64.
But, then the admissions really start to rocket as we go from 65-74; they rocket further from 75-84 and they are in the stratosphere at 85 and over.
It seems a fair summary of the data that very, very few people under the age of 44 require hospital treatment.
Although "rate per 100,000" is EXTREMELY misleading. Because there are a lot more 45 to 64 year olds than there are 85+ year olds.
In other words, that ONS data is entirely consistent with half the people in ICUs being below the age of 70.
What is the median and interquartile range of the age of people on ICUs?
For the second wave median age is 62 and 2/3 under seventy. There is no absolute bar to older folk being on ICU if likely to benefit. This is the age distribution, data from the weekly reports of the Intensive care society.
Thanks. So just using the histogram, the percentage of hospital admissions under 40 is 1.1 + 1.3 + 2.4 + 3.2 = 8 per cent.
The IQR is 50-79 (I haven't done it accurately because of the binned data). The median is 62.
Perhaps it is fair to say that this is a disease of the elderly AND the late middle-aged.
Nonetheless, my point remains that the young have paid a high price for a disease that leaves them largely unaffected
I think they should be rewarded.
The low risks for under 50s imply that lockdown should end forever the moment the priority groups are immunised.
Do PBers think it will?
The shift is really below 40. There are as many 40-49 males alone as all males and female under 40.
8% (all under 40s) has 3 and a half doublings before overwhelming ICUs on their own.
20% (all under 50s) has under two and a half.
With no restrictions and, say, 50% herd immunity, one doubling would be about 5 days.
So if we dropped all restrictions at that point, under 50s would overwhelm the ICUs all on their own in 12 days. (Well, the infections to do that would take 12 days; it’d be three weeks before they were actually overwhelmed)
Under 40s would take a bit longer. About 18 days, translating to nearly a month.
Although with acquired immunity, I reckon 60% would have immunity when we get to the under 50s and nearly 70% when we hit the under 40s. I think the extra couple of weeks to get that far would be worth it (and I’d guess that restrictions would be down to Tier 1 equivalent or even lower by that point, anyway - as long as immunity did preclude or drastically reduce transmission.
1. Norman Lewis - Jackdaw Cake (his autobiography) and Naples '44 (from his time as an Intelligence Officer in Naples in 1944) are superb but all his travel writing (which understates the quality of his writing) is magnificent.
2. William Trevor: "The Old Boys", "The Children of Dynmouth" and "Felicia's Journey" are 3 of his best novels. Also "Fools of Fortune". And he is the absolute master of the short story. Get his Collected Stories. Each of them a marvel. No-one writes about evil better or about sad, ordinary, half-fulfilled lives or pins down the absurdities and hypocrisies of every-day life. And he can be laugh-out loud funny too. Lots of his work has been made into films - especially by the BBC in the days when they did such things.
3. J G Farrell: "Troubles" is wonderful. But all three of his novels are good. He died in a fishing accident off the coast of Ireland much too young.
4. JG McGahern: "Amongst Women" and "That They May Face the Rising Sun" are both wonderful. Some of his earlier novels like "The Barracks" tell you all you need to know about the dark underbelly of Irish domestic life. His "Memoir" is a love letter to his mother. The contrast between the relationship he had with his mother who died too young and the brutality and callousness of his father is unbearable but so well written.
Present-day writers I cannot abide: Hilary Mantel, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis.
I have heard J G Farrell is great, you might have suaded me to try him.
Another one in favour of JG Farrell - he writes very well, and funnily of the British Empire in extremis - in The Siege of Krishnapur as the British get increasingly desperate and retreat further and further into the residence they run out of canon balls and are reduced to loading the canons with cutlery - he describes how a brave Sikh is "plucked from this world by a pair of sugar tongs embedded in his skull". What he would have made of Brexit, goodness only knows, but it would have been entertaining and well worth reading.
Did you watch The Singapore Grip televisualisation in the end? I thought it was an absolute stinker.
It was a stinker. Not quite sure why - it had good actors and Christopher Hampton adapted it. But it just didn't work.
The curse of British TV drama.
Very hard for British writers to make anything that’s not wincingly politically correct.
There's not a lot of point in 24 hour vaccination if you can use up all the available vaccine in the current hours. It doesn't get us any further, even if it might be a little bit more convenient for some. Perhaps when supplies are abundant and younger groups are being vaccinated some round the clock walk-in centres might make sense, but we ought to aim to blast through all vaccine supplies with regular hours if we can.
I was slightly underwhelmed by the comment today that outside the priority groups by Autumn everybody should have been offered a vaccine shot. By April / May, we should be swimming in vaccines, we could have 4 different ones approved, including potentially the J&J one jab one. With all that supply available, it should really be time to put the hammer down and do millions every week.
Remember Adam Smith Institute said, every week of lockdown is £5bn in government support and £6bn in lost economic activity. That should drive whatever it costs to man large scale vaccinations centres for as many hours as possible.
You dud notice the phrase “equal access” in there ?
People dont read the details anymore, trigger words set them off on rants and re-enforce the divide. The equal policy is good but the messaging was poor.
Suggest you listen again. It may be that he actually stumbled - this is Biden after all - but the direct meaning of his speech was that they would prioritise non-white small business owners.
And "racially prioritising" "non-white" small business owners, rather than all small business-owners, is good... because..... WHY?
white business owners have been prioritised in the USA for centuries it ended in Trumpism and the biggest threat to US democracy since Lincoln time for a change
Don’t even know where to start with this.
Mind you every time I weigh into this topic, people tell me I don’t appreciate the particular context of US race relations. So I’ll stay schtum.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Ina far worse position than we are. In a customs union which destroys their ability to make trade deals and which does nothing to reduce the barriers at their border with the EU. It is so bad that they said that if the EU signed a deal with the US or China they would have to leave the customs union as it would destroy their economy.
1. Norman Lewis - Jackdaw Cake (his autobiography) and Naples '44 (from his time as an Intelligence Officer in Naples in 1944) are superb but all his travel writing (which understates the quality of his writing) is magnificent.
2. William Trevor: "The Old Boys", "The Children of Dynmouth" and "Felicia's Journey" are 3 of his best novels. Also "Fools of Fortune". And he is the absolute master of the short story. Get his Collected Stories. Each of them a marvel. No-one writes about evil better or about sad, ordinary, half-fulfilled lives or pins down the absurdities and hypocrisies of every-day life. And he can be laugh-out loud funny too. Lots of his work has been made into films - especially by the BBC in the days when they did such things.
3. J G Farrell: "Troubles" is wonderful. But all three of his novels are good. He died in a fishing accident off the coast of Ireland much too young.
4. JG McGahern: "Amongst Women" and "That They May Face the Rising Sun" are both wonderful. Some of his earlier novels like "The Barracks" tell you all you need to know about the dark underbelly of Irish domestic life. His "Memoir" is a love letter to his mother. The contrast between the relationship he had with his mother who died too young and the brutality and callousness of his father is unbearable but so well written.
Present-day writers I cannot abide: Hilary Mantel, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis.
I have heard J G Farrell is great, you might have suaded me to try him.
Another one in favour of JG Farrell - he writes very well, and funnily of the British Empire in extremis - in The Siege of Krishnapur as the British get increasingly desperate and retreat further and further into the residence they run out of canon balls and are reduced to loading the canons with cutlery - he describes how a brave Sikh is "plucked from this world by a pair of sugar tongs embedded in his skull". What he would have made of Brexit, goodness only knows, but it would have been entertaining and well worth reading.
Did you watch The Singapore Grip televisualisation in the end? I thought it was an absolute stinker.
It was a stinker. Not quite sure why - it had good actors and Christopher Hampton adapted it. But it just didn't work.
Put me off rereading the book which is obviously not a good thing.
I do kind of understand some skepticism, Whitty kind of looks like an Alien from Doctor Who
Having seen the number of people, out having a harmless chat, about 6 inches between their elbows, masks down for the coffee. Breath clouds visible in the cold.....
I'm sure they *start* with good intentions. And probably don't realise what they did.
Even when someone pulls the sheet over their head, in the hospital.
The young deserve to be rewarded for their sacrifice.
I would respectfully suggest that a 45 year old with a family who has lost a job has suffered more than the youngsters you describe, as have all the medical staff that have died of the disease.
Everyone is suffering disruption to their lives to a greater or lesser extent and in different ways and we are all going to be paying for it for many years.
If it was simply about protecting the elderly the government could have legislated to keep them completely locked-down and let everyone else get on with it. However that is only a part of the problem which is precisely why no government I can see anywhere has gone up that route. There are no easy solutions to dealing with a pandemic.
I am no supporter of this Government but it seems to me that they are already compensating those who are suffering most as best they can with the furlough scheme and other initiatives.
I simply don't buy the notion that is all about the young making huge sacrifices for the old. It's just sowing division
Absolutely. And how does “it’s all for the old” square with most of those in London’s overloaded ICUs being under 60, with 90% of them having been at work beforehand?
The most recent data on hospital admissions are here
The graph on hospital admissions clearly shows that there are very, very few hospital admissions with age < 44.
There are some admissions between 45-64.
But, then the admissions really start to rocket as we go from 65-74; they rocket further from 75-84 and they are in the stratosphere at 85 and over.
It seems a fair summary of the data that very, very few people under the age of 44 require hospital treatment.
Although "rate per 100,000" is EXTREMELY misleading. Because there are a lot more 45 to 64 year olds than there are 85+ year olds.
In other words, that ONS data is entirely consistent with half the people in ICUs being below the age of 70.
What is the median and interquartile range of the age of people on ICUs?
For the second wave median age is 62 and 2/3 under seventy. There is no absolute bar to older folk being on ICU if likely to benefit. This is the age distribution, data from the weekly reports of the Intensive care society.
Thanks. So just using the histogram, the percentage of hospital admissions under 40 is 1.1 + 1.3 + 2.4 + 3.2 = 8 per cent.
The IQR is 50-79 (I haven't done it accurately because of the binned data). The median is 62.
Perhaps it is fair to say that this is a disease of the elderly AND the late middle-aged.
Nonetheless, my point remains that the young have paid a high price for a disease that leaves them largely unaffected
I think they should be rewarded.
No, that is ICU admissions, not all hospital admissions.
As to the age profile of the disease: it preferentially kills the old to pretty much exactly the same extent as cardiovascular disease, flu, cancer, dementia and every disease known to man with the exception (I believe) of testicular cancer. That is what diseases do. There is no case for treating covid differently because it behaves differently, when it doesn't.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Considering both the unique nature of what we were trying to do AND the unique nature of the various bilateral fudges made for various states, Norway+ could have been created.
It wasn't the willingness of the EU to find solutions that was the issue. It was the intransigence of "rule makes not rule takers" Tories that was the issue.
We wanted out of EU political structures? OK. But want to remain a close trading partner with easy status quo solutions for Ireland? OK, we can find a workable arrangement.
But no. We are Better than the forrin, we are fed up with being bullied by the forrin. So we wanted away from everything no matter how harmful it was to us. Idiots and the parrots kept insisting we held all the cards. Yeah, clearly. As we all now can see following the German Car Industry's intervention to make Brussels give us what we wanted.
There's not a lot of point in 24 hour vaccination if you can use up all the available vaccine in the current hours. It doesn't get us any further, even if it might be a little bit more convenient for some. Perhaps when supplies are abundant and younger groups are being vaccinated some round the clock walk-in centres might make sense, but we ought to aim to blast through all vaccine supplies with regular hours if we can.
The only point of 24 hour vaccination is if you run out of space to vaccinate in. As you can vaccinate in a carpark that is never likely to happen. If you have more vaccinators and more vaccine you just do more of it at the same time.
There's not a lot of point in 24 hour vaccination if you can use up all the available vaccine in the current hours. It doesn't get us any further, even if it might be a little bit more convenient for some. Perhaps when supplies are abundant and younger groups are being vaccinated some round the clock walk-in centres might make sense, but we ought to aim to blast through all vaccine supplies with regular hours if we can.
I was slightly underwhelmed by the comment today that outside the priority groups by Autumn everybody should have been offered a vaccine shot. By April / May, we should be swimming in vaccines, we could have 4 different ones approved, including potentially the J&J one jab one. With all that supply available, it should really be time to put the hammer down and do millions every week.
Remember Adam Smith Institute said, every week of lockdown is £5bn in government support and £6bn in lost economic activity. That should drive whatever it costs to man large scale vaccinations centres for as many hours as possible.
We have to do 100 million injections. There are 37 weeks from the start of January to the start of autumn so that's an average of about 3 million injections per week.
The more the better though hopefully. It depends when they become available.
There are a lot of supposedly ‘intelligent’ people on this forum particularly various Corbyn hating centrists who will not be named who are not very good at psephology and only predict what they want to predict. Whatever one thinks of HYUFD his predictions are a lot more accurate than those people.
This is my ‘curve ball’ prediction for the Holyrood election BTW:
SNP 55 (-8) Con 33 (+2) Lab 28 (+4) LD 7 (+2) Grn 6 (-)
SNP gain From Con Edinburgh Central Grn gain from SNP Glasgow Kelvin Con gain from SNP Banffshire Perthshire South Aberdeenshire East Moray
Lab gain from SNP Rutherglen Cowdenbeath
Survation was an accurate pollster last time and that is showing more stable/better figures for Scottish Labour i.e. 20% of the list vote before I get shot down in flames. Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath was close in 2019 (yes I know about the candidate) and the Ferrier effect might occur in Rutherglen.
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
No. 10 have refused to confirm that he cycled there - he may have been driven there.
Which ceased to be against the law about 8 months ago.
I did think if funny that he was all the way over at the Olympic Park.
Is it illegal to drive (or be driven) for exercise? I’m afraid I took the family up to Hampstead Heath on Saturday (by car) so I am as guilty as sin.
This has been one of my really big bug bears with the 'advice' and the police interpretation of the exercise rules.
Apparently it is okay if you live in a city to go out for a walk on what could be a quite crowded street or at least is likely to bring you into contact with others but it is not okay to get into your sealed car and drive to a park or out into the countryside for a walk which in all likelihood will bring you into contact with not another soul - except for the copper who is waiting to fine you £200 for doing it.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Ina far worse position than we are. In a customs union which destroys their ability to make trade deals and which does nothing to reduce the barriers at their border with the EU. It is so bad that they said that if the EU signed a deal with the US or China they would have to leave the customs union as it would destroy their economy.
Personally, I have never promoted customs union membership outside the EU. That truly is the worst of both worlds.
I only mention it because you keep saying that @RochdalePioneers voted to leave the customs union.
Which is strictly true, but not really true. You’ll remember those heady, splendid debates during the May years when we pondered on “a” customs union vs “the” customs union vs a customs “arrangement”.
1. Norman Lewis - Jackdaw Cake (his autobiography) and Naples '44 (from his time as an Intelligence Officer in Naples in 1944) are superb but all his travel writing (which understates the quality of his writing) is magnificent.
2. William Trevor: "The Old Boys", "The Children of Dynmouth" and "Felicia's Journey" are 3 of his best novels. Also "Fools of Fortune". And he is the absolute master of the short story. Get his Collected Stories. Each of them a marvel. No-one writes about evil better or about sad, ordinary, half-fulfilled lives or pins down the absurdities and hypocrisies of every-day life. And he can be laugh-out loud funny too. Lots of his work has been made into films - especially by the BBC in the days when they did such things.
3. J G Farrell: "Troubles" is wonderful. But all three of his novels are good. He died in a fishing accident off the coast of Ireland much too young.
4. JG McGahern: "Amongst Women" and "That They May Face the Rising Sun" are both wonderful. Some of his earlier novels like "The Barracks" tell you all you need to know about the dark underbelly of Irish domestic life. His "Memoir" is a love letter to his mother. The contrast between the relationship he had with his mother who died too young and the brutality and callousness of his father is unbearable but so well written.
Present-day writers I cannot abide: Hilary Mantel, Salman Rushdie, Martin Amis.
I have heard J G Farrell is great, you might have suaded me to try him.
Another one in favour of JG Farrell - he writes very well, and funnily of the British Empire in extremis - in The Siege of Krishnapur as the British get increasingly desperate and retreat further and further into the residence they run out of canon balls and are reduced to loading the canons with cutlery - he describes how a brave Sikh is "plucked from this world by a pair of sugar tongs embedded in his skull". What he would have made of Brexit, goodness only knows, but it would have been entertaining and well worth reading.
Haven't you got that confused with "Carry On Up The Khyber"?
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Ina far worse position than we are. In a customs union which destroys their ability to make trade deals and which does nothing to reduce the barriers at their border with the EU. It is so bad that they said that if the EU signed a deal with the US or China they would have to leave the customs union as it would destroy their economy.
Personally, I have never promoted customs union membership outside the EU. That truly is the worst of both worlds.
I only mention it because you keep saying that @RochdalePioneers voted to leave the customs union.
Which is strictly true, but not really true. You’ll remember those heady, splendid debates during the May years when we pondered on “a” customs union vs “the” customs union vs a customs “arrangement”.
I did note beforehand that he continues on all occasions to use the term the Customs Union rather than a customs union.
There are a lot of supposedly ‘intelligent’ people on this forum particularly various Corbyn hating centrists who will not be named who are not very good at psephology and only predict what they want to predict. Whatever one thinks of HYUFD his predictions are a lot more accurate than those people.
This is my ‘curve ball’ prediction for the Holyrood election BTW:
SNP 55 (-8) Con 33 (+2) Lab 28 (+4) LD 7 (+2) Grn 6 (-)
SNP gain From Con Edinburgh Central Grn gain from SNP Glasgow Kelvin Con gain from SNP Banffshire Perthshire South Aberdeenshire East Moray
Lab gain from SNP Rutherglen Cowdenbeath
Survation was an accurate pollster last time and that is showing more stable/better figures for Scottish Labour i.e. 20% of the list vote before I get shot down in flames. Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath was close in 2019 (yes I know about the candidate) and the Ferrier effect might occur in Rutherglen.
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
Every cyclist I know would consider 7 miles to be barely warmed up. There's no way an average person would do 7 miles in 21 minutes though !
Snap. I cycled from Bordeaux to Biarritz in Sept 2019. I did 400 miles. Flat as a pancake. Now admittedly I get overtaken a lot and I am 66, but 20 mph average would be in my dreams.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Ina far worse position than we are. In a customs union which destroys their ability to make trade deals and which does nothing to reduce the barriers at their border with the EU. It is so bad that they said that if the EU signed a deal with the US or China they would have to leave the customs union as it would destroy their economy.
Personally, I have never promoted customs union membership outside the EU. That truly is the worst of both worlds.
I only mention it because you keep saying that @RochdalePioneers voted to leave the customs union.
Which is strictly true, but not really true. You’ll remember those heady, splendid debates during the May years when we pondered on “a” customs union vs “the” customs union vs a customs “arrangement”.
I did note beforehand that he continues on all occasions to use the term the Customs Union rather than a customs union.
Perhaps he just didn't understand what he was voting for...🤔
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Considering both the unique nature of what we were trying to do AND the unique nature of the various bilateral fudges made for various states, Norway+ could have been created.
It wasn't the willingness of the EU to find solutions that was the issue. It was the intransigence of "rule makes not rule takers" Tories that was the issue.
We wanted out of EU political structures? OK. But want to remain a close trading partner with easy status quo solutions for Ireland? OK, we can find a workable arrangement.
But no. We are Better than the forrin, we are fed up with being bullied by the forrin. So we wanted away from everything no matter how harmful it was to us. Idiots and the parrots kept insisting we held all the cards. Yeah, clearly. As we all now can see following the German Car Industry's intervention to make Brussels give us what we wanted.
This really isn't what happened. And you surely know it. Too many people in the EU elite wanted us to suffer, and pay, to make any further exits from the EU unpalatable, and too many people in the UK elite wanted us out out out of all co-operation.
The extremists on both sides won, as they often do in political conflict. It polarises.
This is what I fear will happen now in America, but with much more severe consequences.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Ina far worse position than we are. In a customs union which destroys their ability to make trade deals and which does nothing to reduce the barriers at their border with the EU. It is so bad that they said that if the EU signed a deal with the US or China they would have to leave the customs union as it would destroy their economy.
Personally, I have never promoted customs union membership outside the EU. That truly is the worst of both worlds.
I only mention it because you keep saying that @RochdalePioneers voted to leave the customs union.
Which is strictly true, but not really true. You’ll remember those heady, splendid debates during the May years when we pondered on “a” customs union vs “the” customs union vs a customs “arrangement”.
I did note beforehand that he continues on all occasions to use the term the Customs Union rather than a customs union.
Its one of those sophistry arguments. We couldn't participate in The Customs Union. We could however have remained in Customs Union with the EU. As other non-EU states do. If my use of Capital Letters is a problem, simply remove them.
The aim is simple enough. Don't voluntarily cripple the UK by imposing a fuckton of pointless expensive complex paperwork.
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
I think that's a little quick: for those who look me up on Strava, I average about 12 or 13 miles per hour, *assuming* I'm not getting stopped at traffic lights.
The young deserve to be rewarded for their sacrifice.
I would respectfully suggest that a 45 year old with a family who has lost a job has suffered more than the youngsters you describe, as have all the medical staff that have died of the disease.
Everyone is suffering disruption to their lives to a greater or lesser extent and in different ways and we are all going to be paying for it for many years.
If it was simply about protecting the elderly the government could have legislated to keep them completely locked-down and let everyone else get on with it. However that is only a part of the problem which is precisely why no government I can see anywhere has gone up that route. There are no easy solutions to dealing with a pandemic.
I am no supporter of this Government but it seems to me that they are already compensating those who are suffering most as best they can with the furlough scheme and other initiatives.
I simply don't buy the notion that is all about the young making huge sacrifices for the old. It's just sowing division
Absolutely. And how does “it’s all for the old” square with most of those in London’s overloaded ICUs being under 60, with 90% of them having been at work beforehand?
The most recent data on hospital admissions are here
The graph on hospital admissions clearly shows that there are very, very few hospital admissions with age < 44.
There are some admissions between 45-64.
But, then the admissions really start to rocket as we go from 65-74; they rocket further from 75-84 and they are in the stratosphere at 85 and over.
It seems a fair summary of the data that very, very few people under the age of 44 require hospital treatment.
Although "rate per 100,000" is EXTREMELY misleading. Because there are a lot more 45 to 64 year olds than there are 85+ year olds.
In other words, that ONS data is entirely consistent with half the people in ICUs being below the age of 70.
What is the median and interquartile range of the age of people on ICUs?
For the second wave median age is 62 and 2/3 under seventy. There is no absolute bar to older folk being on ICU if likely to benefit. This is the age distribution, data from the weekly reports of the Intensive care society.
Thanks. So just using the histogram, the percentage of hospital admissions under 40 is 1.1 + 1.3 + 2.4 + 3.2 = 8 per cent.
The IQR is 50-79 (I haven't done it accurately because of the binned data). The median is 62.
Perhaps it is fair to say that this is a disease of the elderly AND the late middle-aged.
Nonetheless, my point remains that the young have paid a high price for a disease that leaves them largely unaffected
I think they should be rewarded.
The low risks for under 50s imply that lockdown should end forever the moment the priority groups are immunised.
Do PBers think it will?
The shift is really below 40. There are as many 40-49 males alone as all males and female under 40.
8% (all under 40s) has 3 and a half doublings before overwhelming ICUs on their own.
20% (all under 50s) has under two and a half.
With no restrictions and, say, 50% herd immunity, one doubling would be about 5 days.
So if we dropped all restrictions at that point, under 50s would overwhelm the ICUs all on their own in 12 days. (Well, the infections to do that would take 12 days; it’d be three weeks before they were actually overwhelmed)
Under 40s would take a bit longer. About 18 days, translating to nearly a month.
Yes. As you know, I've been saying the same for a while. If the virus lets rip in the unvaccinated population there are easily enough under 50s who will become seriously ill to bring the NHS to total collapse. Restrictions can certainly reduce at that point -- the faster the vaccination programme at that stage, the more they can relax because the vaccinations can stay ahead of the wave of infections -- but not be removed entirely.
Of course, many of those advocating for immediate removal of restrictions once over 70s/60s/50s have been vaccinated are the same who were against restrictions in the first place, so their view hardly surprising. Some others are not against restrictions in principle, but so fervent in their desire to be free of them that they cannot bear to understand the arithmetic of hospital capacity.
Let's hope that the government isn't lead by the headbangers on this. It will all be a lot easier if they get the vaccination rate up to a good clip so that the difference between vaccinating all over 50s and all over 40s is only 2-3 weeks. Or perhaps seasonal effects will act in our favour and the spread will be slower.
There's not a lot of point in 24 hour vaccination if you can use up all the available vaccine in the current hours. It doesn't get us any further, even if it might be a little bit more convenient for some. Perhaps when supplies are abundant and younger groups are being vaccinated some round the clock walk-in centres might make sense, but we ought to aim to blast through all vaccine supplies with regular hours if we can.
I was slightly underwhelmed by the comment today that outside the priority groups by Autumn everybody should have been offered a vaccine shot. By April / May, we should be swimming in vaccines, we could have 4 different ones approved, including potentially the J&J one jab one. With all that supply available, it should really be time to put the hammer down and do millions every week.
Remember Adam Smith Institute said, every week of lockdown is £5bn in government support and £6bn in lost economic activity. That should drive whatever it costs to man large scale vaccinations centres for as many hours as possible.
We have to do 100 million injections. There are 37 weeks from the start of January to the start of autumn so that's an average of about 3 million injections per week.
The more the better though hopefully. It depends when they become available.
This is why J&J one would be huge. All of a sudden, we don't need to do 2 per person and it comes without the limitation of having to be stored at minus a million degrees or buggered if knocked in transit.
You dud notice the phrase “equal access” in there ?
People dont read the details anymore, trigger words set them off on rants and re-enforce the divide. The equal policy is good but the messaging was poor.
Suggest you listen again. It may be that he actually stumbled - this is Biden after all - but the direct meaning of his speech was that they would prioritise non-white small business owners.
And "racially prioritising" "non-white" small business owners, rather than all small business-owners, is good... because..... WHY?
white business owners have been prioritised in the USA for centuries it ended in Trumpism and the biggest threat to US democracy since Lincoln time for a change
The direction of travel is absolutely the right one, but framing and commonality is also important. Ideally you could say something like, as American politicians often have, "we will be prioritising equality of opportunity for all americans, black or white, rich or poor, and in part of our effort to do that this year we will be helping to raise up our black and latino businesses".
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Considering both the unique nature of what we were trying to do AND the unique nature of the various bilateral fudges made for various states, Norway+ could have been created.
It wasn't the willingness of the EU to find solutions that was the issue. It was the intransigence of "rule makes not rule takers" Tories that was the issue.
We wanted out of EU political structures? OK. But want to remain a close trading partner with easy status quo solutions for Ireland? OK, we can find a workable arrangement.
But no. We are Better than the forrin, we are fed up with being bullied by the forrin. So we wanted away from everything no matter how harmful it was to us. Idiots and the parrots kept insisting we held all the cards. Yeah, clearly. As we all now can see following the German Car Industry's intervention to make Brussels give us what we wanted.
This is what I have been over time and time again. To change the status of the Customs Union within the EU means reopening and changing the Treaties - the really basic ones that govern how the EU is run. There is not a cat in hells chance the EU would do that. They said so, explicitly, because it would allow member states to start negotiating other bits of the treaties that they are unhappy with and the EU could not risk that happening - quite rightly. They therefore expected us to understand that leaving the EU meant leaving the Customs Union. This was not up for debate with the EU - ever.
Now as I have aid it was perfectly feasible - indeed preferable - that we remain in the Single Market. That was on offer and was doable. We choose (or rather May and Johnson chose) not to do that and so they now have created this end point. I still prefer it over EU membership but will not defend for one second their negotiation which stank.
I was slightly underwhelmed by the comment today that outside the priority groups by Autumn everybody should have been offered a vaccine shot. By April / May, we should be swimming in vaccines, we could have 4 different ones approved, including potentially the J&J one jab one. With all that supply available, it should really be time to put the hammer down and do millions every week.
Remember Adam Smith Institute said, every week of lockdown is £5bn in government support and £6bn in lost economic activity. That should drive whatever it costs to man large scale vaccinations centres for as many hours as possible.
I was thinking about that earlier when Hancock talked about the number of vaccine volunteers and NHS staff etc. Given the economic cost it would be well worth paying some serious dosh to say 100,000 people for a few months to use up all the vaccines we have. There is simply no reason to be limited by anything other than the supply.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Ina far worse position than we are. In a customs union which destroys their ability to make trade deals and which does nothing to reduce the barriers at their border with the EU. It is so bad that they said that if the EU signed a deal with the US or China they would have to leave the customs union as it would destroy their economy.
Personally, I have never promoted customs union membership outside the EU. That truly is the worst of both worlds.
I only mention it because you keep saying that @RochdalePioneers voted to leave the customs union.
Which is strictly true, but not really true. You’ll remember those heady, splendid debates during the May years when we pondered on “a” customs union vs “the” customs union vs a customs “arrangement”.
I did note beforehand that he continues on all occasions to use the term the Customs Union rather than a customs union.
Perhaps he just didn't understand what he was voting for...🤔
I believe I have confessed Mea Culpa Mea Maxima Culpa on numerous occasions... But having been offered the ability to vote in two rerun elections because the party who won didn't like the result people voted for, it is absolutely right that all the other people like me who are remainers now should be told to respect the will of the people and never ever be given the opportunity to vote in a rerun. Because democracy.
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
I think that's a little quick: for those who look me up on Strava, I average about 12 or 13 miles per hour, *assuming* I'm not getting stopped at traffic lights.
When I'm driving I look at traffic lights and hope they won't go red. When I'm cycling sometimes it's rather the reverse in that I get a short break.
Regarding Shagger's bike ride. Its not the distance that is the problem. It is the timing. When the pox is destroying London and people are almost being begged by the government to stay at home, riding across London is not the right message to be giving out.
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
I think that's a little quick: for those who look me up on Strava, I average about 12 or 13 miles per hour, *assuming* I'm not getting stopped at traffic lights.
If I'm in a 20 zone on the road, I like to pick up the pace a little bit, up to about 17mph (I have a digital display that gives me precise speeds). The reason is, it's a lot harder for cars to overtake when you're close to the speed limit than when you're going at about 12. It annoys the shit out of some drivers, especially men.
Can't keep that pace up for long stretches, though, so it's a little treat for myself now and then.
I was slightly underwhelmed by the comment today that outside the priority groups by Autumn everybody should have been offered a vaccine shot. By April / May, we should be swimming in vaccines, we could have 4 different ones approved, including potentially the J&J one jab one. With all that supply available, it should really be time to put the hammer down and do millions every week.
Remember Adam Smith Institute said, every week of lockdown is £5bn in government support and £6bn in lost economic activity. That should drive whatever it costs to man large scale vaccinations centres for as many hours as possible.
I was thinking about that earlier when Hancock talked about the number of vaccine volunteers and NHS staff etc. Given the economic cost it would be well worth paying some serious dosh to say 100,000 people for a few months to use up all the vaccines we have. There is simply no reason to be limited by anything other than the supply.
Not sure money is the problem. Seems to be a lot of needless barriers with retired GPs complaining they have to fill in 15 forms just to volunteer and so on.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Oh stop it!
2016 campaign was complete utter jibberish. It left everyone more confused than at the start. You are lying when you try to make out it was informative.
When have merits of CU properly debated?
People didn’t know in 2016 they would end up in a worst place because it’s still not clear today! It will take years from here for many who voted leave to appreciate their mistake.
And you bang on about it being democracy, when it wasn’t democracy. 2016 was a campaign and vote that was utter mess. Brexiteers who cling to that vote don’t respect democracy, nor honest about what they rammed through on platform of lies.
the whole point of democracy is that 52% never trumps 48%, democracy is about tolerating minority views in the big decisions for a society going forwards. What happened in ‘75 and ‘16 is nearer fascism than democracy.
representative democracy is stronger than direct democracy because it allows for more efficient scrutiny by a sufficiently small number of people with time and skills, who have maturity of judgment and unbiased in opinion to go into forensic depth and come to a more enlightened conclusion on behalf of all people and points of view. key difference between direct and representative forms of democracy is representatives not simply to communicate the wishes of the electorate but to use their own judgment in the exercise of their powers, even if their views are not reflective of those of a majority of voters, but the voters can still remove them.
Like ‘75, ‘16 was bogus democracy masquerading as and usurping democracy.
A few points
Since you are talking specifically about the 2016 vote rather than what happened afterwards, how do you tolerate a minority view in a binary question? You can't. Either one side wins or the other does.
You do realise that it is legally impossible under the basic treaties governing the existence of the EU for us to remain part of the Customs Union without being members of the EU?
I am afraid your view of democracy appears to be that people are too stupid to make decisions for themselves and so should not be allowed to. When the representatives stop serving the people and are only interested in serving themselves and their own partial views then representative democracy is no longer working. That was undoubtedly the case in 2016 which was why it was necessary to have a direct vote on a matter the representatives consistently refused to address.
The only thing bogus is your claim to be interested in democracy. You are not. You are only interested in getting what you want and fuck anyone else who disagrees with you. You are as bad as Johnson and the rest of the politicians on both sides.
Question. What is the difference between "the" Customs Union and "a" Customs Union...?
Sorry RP I missed this earlier in answering the later questions. Too many comments tonight.
'The Customs Union' is a unique structure within the EU. It is built into and governed by the basic treaties that govern the running of the EU. As such it is only available to members of the EU. None of the EFTA members if the EEA can be in Customs Union even if they wanted to.
A customs union (I use the lower case to differentiate) is basically any other customs union between two countries or groups of countries. The only country to be in a customs union with the EU is Turkey and it is a very very poor deal. In theory Turkey is able to make separate trade deals with other countries but the problem is that any country that has a trade deal with the EU gets automatic tariff free access to Turkey without the reciprocal arrangement. SO they can impose tariffs on Turkey but Turkey cannot impose tariffs on them. It is why Turkey made it clear that if TTIP was passed they would have to leave the customs union with the EU. They simply could not afford to have the US have tariff free access to their markets without a reciprocal arrangement.
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Yet no one except for you is talking about prices.
We are talking about paperwork and the impact that paperwork is having on sales, exports and logistics.
And besides which, people were promised a free steak. Now they find that free is £35, and the steak is actually a dog poo.
But people voted for a £35 dog poo. They knew it was a £35 dog poo. So they can bloody well eat it and stop remoaning.
You are an unbearable hypocrite. You voted Leave, as did Phillip. I don’t agree with your vote but at least Phillip has the courage of his convictions.
I voted to leave the EU. The question on the ballot paper. I didn't vote to leave the EEA - not on the ballot paper - or the CU - not on the ballot paper. I was one of the people gaslit - my vote was was in error.
Had we - as Nigel Farage himself suggested - followed a Norway exit, we wouldn't be knee deep in dog poo steak dinners.
Actually you did vote to leave the Customs Union. If you thought you were not then you weren't listening when I was telling everyone on here for the last decade or so that it is impossible to stay in the Customs Union if you leave the EU. That is not because of anything special the UK chose to do over and above leaving the EU. It was a fundamental part of leaving. EU rules, not ours.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Turkey.
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Ina far worse position than we are. In a customs union which destroys their ability to make trade deals and which does nothing to reduce the barriers at their border with the EU. It is so bad that they said that if the EU signed a deal with the US or China they would have to leave the customs union as it would destroy their economy.
Personally, I have never promoted customs union membership outside the EU. That truly is the worst of both worlds.
I only mention it because you keep saying that @RochdalePioneers voted to leave the customs union.
Which is strictly true, but not really true. You’ll remember those heady, splendid debates during the May years when we pondered on “a” customs union vs “the” customs union vs a customs “arrangement”.
I did note beforehand that he continues on all occasions to use the term the Customs Union rather than a customs union.
Perhaps he just didn't understand what he was voting for...🤔
Wasn’t there A Mutual Customs Understanding and a Concordat of Customs Alignment proposed at some stage, or did I simply go quite mad during the late-night debates on here?
She's very weird full stop. The "I don't care ?" jacket was weird, as are a lot of her facial expressios.
She's married. To Donald. Trump.
The prosecution rests.
There was a school of thought that she was effectively being held hostage.
Various Internet personalities would parse her mannequin-blank visage or dodgy interior design taste as obvious cries for help.
But, no. Turns out she’s madder than Mark Francois looking at the menu in a Cafe Rouge in Basildon.
Reportedly she doesn't exactly live with the Donald as a normal married couple would. But she has to listen to him. Look at him. Do sexual things with him.
The young deserve to be rewarded for their sacrifice.
I would respectfully suggest that a 45 year old with a family who has lost a job has suffered more than the youngsters you describe, as have all the medical staff that have died of the disease.
Everyone is suffering disruption to their lives to a greater or lesser extent and in different ways and we are all going to be paying for it for many years.
If it was simply about protecting the elderly the government could have legislated to keep them completely locked-down and let everyone else get on with it. However that is only a part of the problem which is precisely why no government I can see anywhere has gone up that route. There are no easy solutions to dealing with a pandemic.
I am no supporter of this Government but it seems to me that they are already compensating those who are suffering most as best they can with the furlough scheme and other initiatives.
I simply don't buy the notion that is all about the young making huge sacrifices for the old. It's just sowing division
Absolutely. And how does “it’s all for the old” square with most of those in London’s overloaded ICUs being under 60, with 90% of them having been at work beforehand?
The most recent data on hospital admissions are here
The graph on hospital admissions clearly shows that there are very, very few hospital admissions with age < 44.
There are some admissions between 45-64.
But, then the admissions really start to rocket as we go from 65-74; they rocket further from 75-84 and they are in the stratosphere at 85 and over.
It seems a fair summary of the data that very, very few people under the age of 44 require hospital treatment.
Although "rate per 100,000" is EXTREMELY misleading. Because there are a lot more 45 to 64 year olds than there are 85+ year olds.
In other words, that ONS data is entirely consistent with half the people in ICUs being below the age of 70.
What is the median and interquartile range of the age of people on ICUs?
For the second wave median age is 62 and 2/3 under seventy. There is no absolute bar to older folk being on ICU if likely to benefit. This is the age distribution, data from the weekly reports of the Intensive care society.
Thanks. So just using the histogram, the percentage of hospital admissions under 40 is 1.1 + 1.3 + 2.4 + 3.2 = 8 per cent.
The IQR is 50-79 (I haven't done it accurately because of the binned data). The median is 62.
Perhaps it is fair to say that this is a disease of the elderly AND the late middle-aged.
Nonetheless, my point remains that the young have paid a high price for a disease that leaves them largely unaffected
I think they should be rewarded.
No, that is ICU admissions, not all hospital admissions.
As to the age profile of the disease: it preferentially kills the old to pretty much exactly the same extent as cardiovascular disease, flu, cancer, dementia and every disease known to man with the exception (I believe) of testicular cancer. That is what diseases do. There is no case for treating covid differently because it behaves differently, when it doesn't.
Of course, it is different ... because cancer, dementia, cardiovascular disease are not passed on by airborne infections, necessitating a lockdown.
The horror, the absolute horror of Boris being 7 miles from Downing St on his bike 🤣🤣🤣
I'm curious how many bike riders would consider 7 miles to be "not local".
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
I think that's a little quick: for those who look me up on Strava, I average about 12 or 13 miles per hour, *assuming* I'm not getting stopped at traffic lights.
When I'm driving I look at traffic lights and hope they won't go red. When I'm cycling sometimes it's rather the reverse in that I get a short break.
Resting at red traffic lights, and you call yourself a cyclist?
There seems to be a lot of going around in circles here with people trying to convince me that there is a price to be paid for leaving the SM and CU, but I don't deny that - and that argument was made repeatedly in both referendums. People chose to pay the price. That is democracy.
"I would like to have the steak please"
"It costs £35"
"That is OK, I will have the steak"
"Are you sure? £35 is a lot to pay for once meal"
"Yes please, the steak. Medium rare."
"I don't think you understand, you could go shopping and get something cheaper"
"The steak please"
"But the price is £35"
"The steak please"
"Why don't you accept that the steak costs £35"
"I do. The steak please. Medium rare".
"Experts say that £35 is a lot, you could eat cheaper elsewhere".
"I have made my decision, steak please. I am prepared to pay £35 for it"
"Why do you know more than the experts? Why do you insist it doesn't cost £35?"
"I don't. I'm prepared to pay £35 for the steak"
"Who knows better, the people who printed the menu or you? They say it is £35 for one steak"
"I get that. I want the steak"
"What is your expertise on steak prices? Why won't you accept this steak will cost you £35"
"I do. I already spoke to the waiter and ordered it, I saw the menu when I did."
"Look at that, now the steak has arrived. Are you happy now, that is going to cost £35. Why didn't you think about that?"
Oh stop it!
2016 campaign was complete utter jibberish. It left everyone more confused than at the start. You are lying when you try to make out it was informative.
When have merits of CU properly debated?
People didn’t know in 2016 they would end up in a worst place because it’s still not clear today! It will take years from here for many who voted leave to appreciate their mistake.
And you bang on about it being democracy, when it wasn’t democracy. 2016 was a campaign and vote that was utter mess. Brexiteers who cling to that vote don’t respect democracy, nor honest about what they rammed through on platform of lies.
the whole point of democracy is that 52% never trumps 48%, democracy is about tolerating minority views in the big decisions for a society going forwards. What happened in ‘75 and ‘16 is nearer fascism than democracy.
representative democracy is stronger than direct democracy because it allows for more efficient scrutiny by a sufficiently small number of people with time and skills, who have maturity of judgment and unbiased in opinion to go into forensic depth and come to a more enlightened conclusion on behalf of all people and points of view. key difference between direct and representative forms of democracy is representatives not simply to communicate the wishes of the electorate but to use their own judgment in the exercise of their powers, even if their views are not reflective of those of a majority of voters, but the voters can still remove them.
Like ‘75, ‘16 was bogus democracy masquerading as and usurping democracy.
A few points
Since you are talking specifically about the 2016 vote rather than what happened afterwards, how do you tolerate a minority view in a binary question? You can't. Either one side wins or the other does.
You do realise that it is legally impossible under the basic treaties governing the existence of the EU for us to remain part of the Customs Union without being members of the EU?
I am afraid your view of democracy appears to be that people are too stupid to make decisions for themselves and so should not be allowed to. When the representatives stop serving the people and are only interested in serving themselves and their own partial views then representative democracy is no longer working. That was undoubtedly the case in 2016 which was why it was necessary to have a direct vote on a matter the representatives consistently refused to address.
The only thing bogus is your claim to be interested in democracy. You are not. You are only interested in getting what you want and fuck anyone else who disagrees with you. You are as bad as Johnson and the rest of the politicians on both sides.
Question. What is the difference between "the" Customs Union and "a" Customs Union...?
Sorry RP I missed this earlier in answering the later questions. Too many comments tonight.
'The Customs Union' is a unique structure within the EU. It is built into and governed by the basic treaties that govern the running of the EU. As such it is only available to members of the EU. None of the EFTA members if the EEA can be in Customs Union even if they wanted to.
A customs union (I use the lower case to differentiate) is basically any other customs union between two countries or groups of countries. The only country to be in a customs union with the EU is Turkey and it is a very very poor deal. In theory Turkey is able to make separate trade deals with other countries but the problem is that any country that has a trade deal with the EU gets automatic tariff free access to Turkey without the reciprocal arrangement. SO they can impose tariffs on Turkey but Turkey cannot impose tariffs on them. It is why Turkey made it clear that if TTIP was passed they would have to leave the customs union with the EU. They simply could not afford to have the US have tariff free access to their markets without a reciprocal arrangement.
The key seems to be the batshit Tory delusion that having left the EU we would be able to negotiate better deals having become economically smaller and politically less relevant.
I don't think that anyone proposed directly copying the Turkey customs union for the UK, merely to show that customs deals were there to be done. Unlike Turkey the UK wasn't seen by many EU countries as an invading threat...
There are a lot of supposedly ‘intelligent’ people on this forum particularly various Corbyn hating centrists who will not be named who are not very good at psephology and only predict what they want to predict. Whatever one thinks of HYUFD his predictions are a lot more accurate than those people.
This is my ‘curve ball’ prediction for the Holyrood election BTW:
SNP 55 (-8) Con 33 (+2) Lab 28 (+4) LD 7 (+2) Grn 6 (-)
SNP gain From Con Edinburgh Central Grn gain from SNP Glasgow Kelvin Con gain from SNP Banffshire Perthshire South Aberdeenshire East Moray
Lab gain from SNP Rutherglen Cowdenbeath
Survation was an accurate pollster last time and that is showing more stable/better figures for Scottish Labour i.e. 20% of the list vote before I get shot down in flames. Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath was close in 2019 (yes I know about the candidate) and the Ferrier effect might occur in Rutherglen.
The last Survation polling projects 71 seats for SNP and 10 Green. What's your rationale for them being accurate last time, Labour friendly now and way off for May?
She's very weird full stop. The "I don't care ?" jacket was weird, as are a lot of her facial expressios.
She's married. To Donald. Trump.
The prosecution rests.
There was a school of thought that she was effectively being held hostage.
Various Internet personalities would parse her mannequin-blank visage or dodgy interior design taste as obvious cries for help.
But, no. Turns out she’s madder than Mark Francois looking at the menu in a Cafe Rouge in Basildon.
Reportedly she doesn't exactly live with the Donald as a normal married couple would. But she has to listen to him. Look at him. Do sexual things with him.
He's a fecking politician, you moron. Jeez. He is meant to lead. To be seen, out and about, despite all our horrors. Like Churchill visiting bomb sites.
If he didn't do this, this person would be jumping on him, saying he's hiding away. Ludicrous.
I am not outraged by it. It's a judgment call, but if Johnson sees his "essential work" being messaging, I would call for "stay at home" being a more important message for him to give than " here I am, opening a vaccination centre in Bristol"
But isn't getting vaccinated an equally important message?
Possibly, although Johnson seemed to emphasise sticking to the rules, presumably including not making unnecessary journeys, rather than the need to be vaccinated when you get the chance. The rest of his visit appears to have been a royal walkabout through the facility.
Not very exercised by whether he goes or doesn't go, but slightly interested in the philosophical choice.
Possibly? lol. With the rise of anti-vaxers I think it is really important.
Actually I don't agree with that. (Which is a different question from whether Johnson was right to go to Bristol to deliver a message about the importance of getting vaccinated, which AFAIK he didn't actually deliver).
Getting vaccinated when you are offered the jab is important. Right now the critical thing is for everyone to limit their social interactions. We are seeing epidemic go out of control and our healthcare system is on the point of collapse.
The only way out of this is for people to be vaccinated. There will be a problem if people refuse the vaccine when offered it, hence the publicity drive. If people don't get vaccinated, the stay at home message will be required for a lot longer.
Comments
Unless the law is specific on this point then we don't know this until it is tested in a court presumably?
In the standard corruption in the US political gravy train, the system is quite often scammed. So a company appears to be owned by a Native American, say. But the actual profits go to people who... aren't.
The classic methodology for this is the contracting out shell game. The company owned by the front person contracts all the work it receives out. It makes a tiny profit. The companies it gives work to make nice fat profits.
Not very exercised by whether he goes or doesn't go, but slightly interested in the philosophical choice.
Since you are talking specifically about the 2016 vote rather than what happened afterwards, how do you tolerate a minority view in a binary question? You can't. Either one side wins or the other does.
You do realise that it is legally impossible under the basic treaties governing the existence of the EU for us to remain part of the Customs Union without being members of the EU?
I am afraid your view of democracy appears to be that people are too stupid to make decisions for themselves and so should not be allowed to. When the representatives stop serving the people and are only interested in serving themselves and their own partial views then representative democracy is no longer working. That was undoubtedly the case in 2016 which was why it was necessary to have a direct vote on a matter the representatives consistently refused to address.
The only thing bogus is your claim to be interested in democracy. You are not. You are only interested in getting what you want and fuck anyone else who disagrees with you. You are as bad as Johnson and the rest of the politicians on both sides.
Is he supposed to go up and down his own street FFS? 7 miles on a bike seems reasonable to me. 🤷🏻♂️
The average cyclist cycles about 20 miles per hour. So being 7 miles away is about 21 minutes of cycling for an average person. Is that meant to be unreasonable?
Brian Friel is a playwright whose plays are well worth seeing. "Translations" and "Dancing at Lughnasa" are two of the finest plays I've ever seen. They've stayed with me.
I like Alan Bennett's writing: he can be both touching and very funny too.
I do agree we should have joined EFTA and the EEA. Again I was banging on about this for years long before we ever got promised a vote.
Etc, etc.
I asked RP but didn't get an answer, perhaps you can provide an answer - what significantly would be different had we been in the EFTA as opposed to our deal?
Since the rules of origin, the paperwork etc are issues the EFTA has to deal with too . . . since the EFTA doesn't have a Financial Services Passport . . . since we have zero tariffs, zero quotas . . . what is actually significantly different and worse with our deal?
Merkel attacks twitter ban on Trump as undemocratic.
Is it illegal to drive (or be driven) for exercise?
I’m afraid I took the family up to Hampstead Heath on Saturday (by car) so I am as guilty as sin.
The real big story of the day, it looks like vaccine roll out is going fairly well AND enough vaccines have been made to meet the demand for the first 4 groups already (although they need bottling up, the vaccines that is, not the oldies).
it ended in Trumpism and the biggest threat to US democracy since Lincoln
time for a change
Yes, yes - we know it is not in *the* customs union.
Getting vaccinated when you are offered the jab is important. Right now the critical thing is for everyone to limit their social interactions. We are seeing epidemic go out of control and our healthcare system is on the point of collapse.
But I don't believe the average speed is 20pmh. 20kph, possibly, over distance including having to slow down for crossings, etc. 25kph would be my guess for flat, uninterrupted, paved terrain. But >30kph in doesn't sound right to me.
EDIT: (if that's alright with Big_G_irlsBlouse)
Apologies I didn't see Pulpstar's comment, to which I didn't really add much.
I am sure the question will be asked so to make clear I will still take this over EU membership. But for me of course it was never primarily about money. But that doesn't mean I don't think that May and Johnson both made a complete dogs dinner of it and deserve no credit at all. We should have had Barnier negotiate for both sides simultaneously and we would probably have got a better deal.
Very hard for British writers to make anything that’s not wincingly politically correct.
for fantasy Eriksson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series
lit fiction - Richard Flanagan
And a hat-tip to Foucault's Pendulum for inspiring my handle.
Remember Adam Smith Institute said, every week of lockdown is £5bn in government support and £6bn in lost economic activity. That should drive whatever it costs to man large scale vaccinations centres for as many hours as possible.
Mind you every time I weigh into this topic, people tell me I don’t appreciate the particular context of US race relations. So I’ll stay schtum.
To Donald.
Trump.
The prosecution rests.
I'm sure they *start* with good intentions. And probably don't realise what they did.
Even when someone pulls the sheet over their head, in the hospital.
It wasn't the willingness of the EU to find solutions that was the issue. It was the intransigence of "rule makes not rule takers" Tories that was the issue.
We wanted out of EU political structures? OK. But want to remain a close trading partner with easy status quo solutions for Ireland? OK, we can find a workable arrangement.
But no. We are Better than the forrin, we are fed up with being bullied by the forrin. So we wanted away from everything no matter how harmful it was to us. Idiots and the parrots kept insisting we held all the cards. Yeah, clearly. As we all now can see following the German Car Industry's intervention to make Brussels give us what we wanted.
The more the better though hopefully. It depends when they become available.
This is my ‘curve ball’ prediction for the Holyrood election BTW:
SNP 55 (-8)
Con 33 (+2)
Lab 28 (+4)
LD 7 (+2)
Grn 6 (-)
SNP gain From Con
Edinburgh Central
Grn gain from SNP
Glasgow Kelvin
Con gain from SNP
Banffshire
Perthshire South
Aberdeenshire East
Moray
Lab gain from SNP
Rutherglen
Cowdenbeath
Survation was an accurate pollster last time and that is showing more stable/better figures for Scottish Labour i.e. 20% of the list vote before I get shot down in flames. Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath was close in 2019 (yes I know about the candidate) and the Ferrier effect might occur in Rutherglen.
Apparently it is okay if you live in a city to go out for a walk on what could be a quite crowded street or at least is likely to bring you into contact with others but it is not okay to get into your sealed car and drive to a park or out into the countryside for a walk which in all likelihood will bring you into contact with not another soul - except for the copper who is waiting to fine you £200 for doing it.
I only mention it because you keep saying that @RochdalePioneers voted to leave the customs union.
Which is strictly true, but not really true.
You’ll remember those heady, splendid debates during the May years when we pondered on “a” customs union vs “the” customs union vs a customs “arrangement”.
https://twitter.com/MisterWilliams/status/1348713477167337479?s=20
The extremists on both sides won, as they often do in political conflict. It polarises.
This is what I fear will happen now in America, but with much more severe consequences.
The aim is simple enough. Don't voluntarily cripple the UK by imposing a fuckton of pointless expensive complex paperwork.
Of course, many of those advocating for immediate removal of restrictions once over 70s/60s/50s have been vaccinated are the same who were against restrictions in the first place, so their view hardly surprising. Some others are not against restrictions in principle, but so fervent in their desire to be free of them that they cannot bear to understand the arithmetic of hospital capacity.
Let's hope that the government isn't lead by the headbangers on this. It will all be a lot easier if they get the vaccination rate up to a good clip so that the difference between vaccinating all over 50s and all over 40s is only 2-3 weeks. Or perhaps seasonal effects will act in our favour and the spread will be slower.
--AS
Now as I have aid it was perfectly feasible - indeed preferable - that we remain in the Single Market. That was on offer and was doable. We choose (or rather May and Johnson chose) not to do that and so they now have created this end point. I still prefer it over EU membership but will not defend for one second their negotiation which stank.
You are getting sleepy.
Your eyes are feeling heavy.
You are no longer of this world.
Various Internet personalities would parse her mannequin-blank visage or dodgy interior design taste as obvious cries for help.
But, no. Turns out she’s madder than Mark Francois looking at the menu in a Cafe Rouge in Basildon.
Its "You Must Stay At Home like I'm not"
Can't keep that pace up for long stretches, though, so it's a little treat for myself now and then.
Why do they need any forms?
Were they listed at the GMC?
Have they been struck off?
Er, that's it.
'The Customs Union' is a unique structure within the EU. It is built into and governed by the basic treaties that govern the running of the EU. As such it is only available to members of the EU. None of the EFTA members if the EEA can be in Customs Union even if they wanted to.
A customs union (I use the lower case to differentiate) is basically any other customs union between two countries or groups of countries. The only country to be in a customs union with the EU is Turkey and it is a very very poor deal. In theory Turkey is able to make separate trade deals with other countries but the problem is that any country that has a trade deal with the EU gets automatic tariff free access to Turkey without the reciprocal arrangement. SO they can impose tariffs on Turkey but Turkey cannot impose tariffs on them. It is why Turkey made it clear that if TTIP was passed they would have to leave the customs union with the EU. They simply could not afford to have the US have tariff free access to their markets without a reciprocal arrangement.
Its understandable she's gone mad.
https://twitter.com/MelissaBlasius/status/1348740338827939841
https://twitter.com/courtneyknorris/status/1348735974377926659
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1348754072560496642
I don't think that anyone proposed directly copying the Turkey customs union for the UK, merely to show that customs deals were there to be done. Unlike Turkey the UK wasn't seen by many EU countries as an invading threat...
Yeah, shall I go down that innuendo laden road?