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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Ipsos-MORI poll finds 68pc ready to welcome migrants from Bulgaria and Romania

There’s a new Ipsos-MORI poll reported in the Observer that suggests that more than two thirds would be ready to welcome migrants from Bulgaria and Romania provided that they “learn English, get a job, pay taxes and become part of their local community.”

Read the full story here

ojcorbs

Have to say Mike the headline title you have used here is questionable considering your portrayal of the poll as dubious at best.

felix

It's the Observer headline and typically slanted to distort the reality - strong opposition to more freeloaders.

CD13

So basically, if they blend in so seamlessly that nobody notices them, 68% wouldn't object. Hmm ... well, that's a shock result, isn't it?

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

The old ones are the best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA

MikeSmithson

What we have here is a report of a poll to consider - not the poll itself. I'll be trying to get Ipsos-MORI to publish the dataset ASAP.

Any comments that cast doubt on the integrity of Ipsos-MORI will be deleted

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Smithson, 'posh poll' sounds almost like club where you can't get in if you're wearing jeans or trainers

edmundintokyo

MikeSmithson said:

Pulpstar said:

Classic push poll question.

We don't know what the question was and until we do we cannot draw any conclusions.

Your use of the term "posh poll" appears to be based on a misapprehension of what push polling actually is

Without saying anything about this poll one way or the other, what's the technical term for a poll that's designed to get a particular result which you can then make the media report, as opposed to the original meaning of "push poll" where you're trying to get a message over to the respondents by pretending to be conducting a poll?

rcs1000

My understanding of "push poll" is that it is different to this which is a "voodoo pool"

A push poll would ask:

So, does candidate X's support for paedophilia concern you?

anotherDave

Daniel Hannan mentions a pro-EU poll from British Interest.

He also makes an interesting point about the EU debate:

"For as long as I can remember, the European debate has involved an element of snobbery. Supporters of the project are not so much pro-EU as anti-Eurosceptic, seeing themselves as defenders of moderate, decent, civilised values against Blimps, oiks and football hooligans. I’ve lost count of how many people in Brussels have said to me, “You know, Hannan, you’re very broadminded for a Eurosceptic”. They mean to be nice, but they reveal their narcissism.

Well, let me be broadminded now. It may be true that the Eurosceptic movement has more than its share of eccentrics. You know what? That has been true of every movement that takes on the orthodoxy. You can’t read history without being struck by how many oddballs and misfits were attracted, in the early stages, to the campaign against slavery or the campaign for a universal franchise. Any movement that challenges the status quo will attract, as well as principled reformers, people who are simply grumpy about life in general. But this doesn’t make them wrong."

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100252075/shock-poll-69-per-cent-want-to-stay-in-the-eu/

edmundintokyo

rcs1000 said:

My understanding of "push poll" is that it is different to this which is a "voodoo pool"

A push poll would ask:

So, does candidate X's support for paedophilia concern you?

I don't think this would be a voodoo poll either. A voodoo poll would be one that had obvious methodological problems like a sample of 10, or a self-selected sample on a website. To fill out the taxonomy:

Push poll: A bunch of calls that pretend to be a poll but are really designed to get a message directly to the respondents.
Voodoo poll: A poll with serious methodological problems, often deliberately.
Prod poll (I just made that up): A poll that uses earlier questions to affect the respondent, before asking the question you plan to report, like the classic Yes Prime Minister one.
Agenda-driven poll (I made that up as well): A poll that asks questions that will result in responses that serve the agenda of the people who asked for it, but may actually be valid. For example, asking whether unemployment benefits should be lower, and asking how much they should actually be, will result in contradictory responses, because the respondents over-estimate how much they are. You'd ask the first if you wanted to cut benefits and the second if you wanted to raise them. But they're both meaningful survey results.

An ethical pollster won't do push, voodoo or prod polls, but they probably will end up doing agenda-driven polls, and we just have to be careful how we interpret them.

Easterross

What has concerned me about the recent debate on Romanian and Bulgarian restrictions is the apparent total ignorance of both most journalists and politicians.

Romanian and Bulgarian citizens have had a totally unrestricted right to come and live in the UK since 1st January 2007. They have had a totally unrestricted right to set up and run their own businesses and work as self-employed persons in the UK since 1st January 2007.

The main change in 3 days time is that they will now be entitled to work as employees of a 3rd party in an unrestricted manner. For the last 7 years they have had to apply for a Work Permit.

I wonder what the Daily Mail and Daily Express will do when by 31st March/30th June/30th September/31st December 2014 people find they have not been confronted by vast numbers of additional Romanians and Bulgarians hanging out on their village/town/city suburb street corners!

Frankly there is far greater concern in Bulgaria about the British and Germans having bought up so much Black Sea property that Bulgarians have been priced out of housing in their own country.

edmundintokyo

Easterross said:

I wonder what the Daily Mail and Daily Express will do when by 31st March/30th June/30th September/31st December 2014 people find they have not been confronted by vast numbers of additional Romanians and Bulgarians hanging out on their village/town/city suburb street corners!

Not a problem, they only need 3 or 4 people in one town somewhere in the country to do their article. But in any case by that point they'll have thought of a new thing to freak out about.

TheScreamingEagles

Here's two of the vilest push polls in history.

Can you spot the link?

Perhaps the most famous use of push polls is in the 2000 United States Republican Party primaries, when it was alleged that George W. Bush's campaign used push polling to torpedo the campaign of Senator John McCain. Voters in South Carolina reportedly were asked "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?"

This hypothetical question seemed like a suggestion, although without substance. It was heard by thousands of primary voters.

McCain and his wife had in fact adopted a Bengali girl.

Bush had previously used push polls in his 1994 bid for Texas Governor against incumbent Ann Richards. Callers asked voters "whether they would be more or less likely to vote for Governor Richards if they knew that lesbians dominated on her staff."

Easterross

I hope that on Tuesday Mike runs a Predictions for 2014 thread. Incidentally have I missed the POTY or has it not taken place yet?

TheScreamingEagles

All I can say is that I hope there's some decent cricketers in Bulgaria and Romania.

We could do with some over here to replace that great shower of shite we have playing out in Oz

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Easterross, no POTY as yet. If there is, I shall nominate Miss Cyclefree.

Mr. Eagles, they collapsed faster than Caesar attending the Senate.

richardDodd

A ridiculous Poll, you would get the same answers to that question "Get a job, pay taxes..etc" if it was asked about Martians

foxinsoxuk

POTY?

ALP for his yellow boxes. I salute his indefatiguability!

Morris_Dancer

I don't mind the Martians. They're Terrestrial, after all. The Venusians and Freddies [as I like to call the Mercurians] are ok too. It's those Jovian bastards I can't stand, with their gaseous composition and diamonds the size of cars. Flashy gits.

TheScreamingEagles

I have a suggestion for a push poll.

Would you vote for a party if you knew that party's leader's father was an immigrant who hated Britain?

Oh, I've given Paul Dacre an idea haven't I?

richardDodd

MD..Exactly..

Easterross

If there is a POTY I would nominate a certain Cheshire farming wine salesman. I loathe and despise all the very cruel remarks he has made on here and in respect of some PBers very nasty and personal attacks on them but no-one can question the extent of his contribution to this site and every now and again he makes important and profound postings worthy of any serious observer of the political scene.

AlastairMeeks

This poll doesn't surprise me in the slightest. The British public welcome hard workers who try to fit in. The concerns about immigrants relate to pressure on public resources, concerns about criminality and a perception that some might be sponging off the state.

NickPalmer

edmundintokyo said:

rcs1000 said:

My understanding of "push poll" is that it is different to this which is a "voodoo pool"

A push poll would ask:

So, does candidate X's support for paedophilia concern you?

I don't think this would be a voodoo poll either. A voodoo poll would be one that had obvious methodological problems like a sample of 10, or a self-selected sample on a website. To fill out the taxonomy:

Push poll: A bunch of calls that pretend to be a poll but are really designed to get a message directly to the respondents.
Voodoo poll: A poll with serious methodological problems, often deliberately.
Prod poll (I just made that up): A poll that uses earlier questions to affect the respondent, before asking the question you plan to report, like the classic Yes Prime Minister one.
Agenda-driven poll (I made that up as well): A poll that asks questions that will result in responses that serve the agenda of the people who asked for it, but may actually be valid. For example, asking whether unemployment benefits should be lower, and asking how much they should actually be, will result in contradictory responses, because the respondents over-estimate how much they are. You'd ask the first if you wanted to cut benefits and the second if you wanted to raise them. But they're both meaningful survey results.

An ethical pollster won't do push, voodoo or prod polls, but they probably will end up doing agenda-driven polls, and we just have to be careful how we interpret them.

Very useful taxonomy by EiT. I'd widen the definition of prod polls to include polls with questions which portray the desired result as the moderate middle position out of 3. The well-known one which gets asked regularly goes something like:

Do you favour:

1. Staying in the EU under current terms?
2. Staying in the EU if the Government recommends new negotiated terms?
3. Leaving the EU?

It's easy to construct any number of similar examples, and the media can if they wish make it worse by adding 1 and 2 or 2 and 3, reporting "the vast majority of voters reject ...[the third option]". A good poll should usually have two or four options, forcing respondents to lean one way or the other.

SquareRoot

NickPalmer said:

edmundintokyo said:

rcs1000 said:

My understanding of "push poll" is that it is different to this which is a "voodoo pool"

A push poll would ask:

So, does candidate X's support for paedophilia concern you?

I don't think this would be a voodoo poll either. A voodoo poll would be one that had obvious methodological problems like a sample of 10, or a self-selected sample on a website. To fill out the taxonomy:

Push poll: A bunch of calls that pretend to be a poll but are really designed to get a message directly to the respondents.
Voodoo poll: A poll with serious methodological problems, often deliberately.
Prod poll (I just made that up): A poll that uses earlier questions to affect the respondent, before asking the question you plan to report, like the classic Yes Prime Minister one.
Agenda-driven poll (I made that up as well): A poll that asks questions that will result in responses that serve the agenda of the people who asked for it, but may actually be valid. For example, asking whether unemployment benefits should be lower, and asking how much they should actually be, will result in contradictory responses, because the respondents over-estimate how much they are. You'd ask the first if you wanted to cut benefits and the second if you wanted to raise them. But they're both meaningful survey results.

An ethical pollster won't do push, voodoo or prod polls, but they probably will end up doing agenda-driven polls, and we just have to be careful how we interpret them.

Very useful taxonomy by EiT. I'd widen the definition of prod polls to include polls with questions which portray the desired result as the moderate middle position out of 3. The well-known one which gets asked regularly goes something like:

Do you favour:

1. Staying in the EU under current terms?
2. Staying in the EU if the Government recommends new negotiated terms?
3. Leaving the EU?

It's easy to construct any number of similar examples, and the media can if they wish make it worse by adding 1 and 2 or 2 and 3, reporting "the vast majority of voters reject ...[the third option]". A good poll should usually have two or four options, forcing respondents to lean one way or the other.

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

So which is it, cheapshots or positive politics You cant have it both ways.

Carola

'People hate politics and politicians for good reason. This will not change any time soon.' (andrewsparrow RT)

http://www.rsablogs.org.uk/2013/adam-lent/people-hate-politics-politicians-good-reason-change-anytime/

JackW

Whilst cricket loving PBers have been sobbing overnight, or indeed for some weeks now in dismay, let's lift the gloom by tickling our political cricketing grey matter with a little brain teaser !!

Now without cheating via the usual suspects by the usual suspects ....

There have been at least a few dozen British parliamentarians who have played first class cricket and gone on to become MPs. However only three of these MP's have also become government ministers.

Who are they, which teams did they play for and which constituencies did they serve ?

TheScreamingEagles

JackW said:

Whilst cricket loving PBers have been sobbing overnight, or indeed for some weeks now in dismay, let's lift the gloom by tickling our political cricketing grey matter with a little brain teaser !!

Now without cheating via the usual suspects by the usual suspects ....

There have been at least a few dozen British parliamentarians who have played first class cricket and gone on to become MPs. However only three of these MP's have also become government ministers.

Who are they, which teams did they play for and which constituencies did they serve ?

I only know one.

Lord Home. Played for Oxford, Middlesex and The MCC and he was MP for West Perth and Kinross.

JackW

TheScreamingEagles said:

JackW said:

Whilst cricket loving PBers have been sobbing overnight, or indeed for some weeks now in dismay, let's lift the gloom by tickling our political cricketing grey matter with a little brain teaser !!

Now without cheating via the usual suspects by the usual suspects ....

There have been at least a few dozen British parliamentarians who have played first class cricket and gone on to become MPs. However only three of these MP's have also become government ministers.

Who are they, which teams did they play for and which constituencies did they serve ?

I only know one.

Lord Home. Played for Oxford, Middlesex and The MCC and he was MP for West Perth and Kinross.

I'm going to be picky as that's the easy one. So only partially correct !!

edmundintokyo

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

JohnLilburne

Easterross said:

What has concerned me about the recent debate on Romanian and Bulgarian restrictions is the apparent total ignorance of both most journalists and politicians.

Romanian and Bulgarian citizens have had a totally unrestricted right to come and live in the UK since 1st January 2007.

And support themselves how exactly?

They have had a totally unrestricted right to set up and run their own businesses and work as self-employed persons in the UK since 1st January 2007.

Most people work as employees.

The main change in 3 days time is that they will now be entitled to work as employees of a 3rd party in an unrestricted manner. For the last 7 years they have had to apply for a Work Permit.

And claim benefits, as long as they can pass the Habitual Residency Test and claim to be actively seeking work. Although not now for the first 3 months.

A bit of a political answer there, Easterross, cherry-picking the bits you like.

SquareRoot

edmundintokyo said:

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

You guess wrong. I am just pointing out the contradiction and inviting to him to respond(for the second time).

TwistedFireStopper

SquareRoot said:

edmundintokyo said:

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

You guess wrong. I am just pointing out the contradiction and inviting to him to respond(for the second time).

You've been asking him to respond, even apologise to Soubry all week. I personally can't understand what you think he's done wrong. If Soubry reads this blog and is upset, she can take it up with Nick Palmer herself.
What's it got to do with you?

MarkSenior

TwistedFireStopper said:

SquareRoot said:

edmundintokyo said:

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

You guess wrong. I am just pointing out the contradiction and inviting to him to respond(for the second time).

You've been asking him to respond, even apologise to Soubry all week. I personally can't understand what you think he's done wrong. If Soubry reads this blog and is upset, she can take it up with Nick Palmer herself.
What's it got to do with you?

Clearly (s)he is being prompted by Soubry to attack NP on here . Perhaps she is actually Soubry posting under an assumed name .

SquareRoot

TwistedFireStopper said:

SquareRoot said:

edmundintokyo said:

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

You guess wrong. I am just pointing out the contradiction and inviting to him to respond(for the second time).

You've been asking him to respond, even apologise to Soubry all week. I personally can't understand what you think he's done wrong. If Soubry reads this blog and is upset, she can take it up with Nick Palmer herself.
What's it got to do with you?

I see so you want to close down legitimate comment.

Toms

Are these PUSHPOTYs ?
In any case, can tim please come back?

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Easterross, no POTY as yet. If there is, I shall nominate Miss Cyclefree.

foxinsoxuk said:

POTY?

ALP for his yellow boxes. I salute his indefatiguability!

Easterross said:

If there is a POTY I would nominate a certain Cheshire farming wine salesman. I loathe and despise all the very cruel remarks he has made on here and in respect of some PBers very nasty and personal attacks on them but no-one can question the extent of his contribution to this site and every now and again he makes important and profound postings worthy of any serious observer of the political scene.

malcolmg

JohnLilburne said:

Easterross said:

What has concerned me about the recent debate on Romanian and Bulgarian restrictions is the apparent total ignorance of both most journalists and politicians.

Romanian and Bulgarian citizens have had a totally unrestricted right to come and live in the UK since 1st January 2007.

And support themselves how exactly?

They have had a totally unrestricted right to set up and run their own businesses and work as self-employed persons in the UK since 1st January 2007.

Most people work as employees.

The main change in 3 days time is that they will now be entitled to work as employees of a 3rd party in an unrestricted manner. For the last 7 years they have had to apply for a Work Permit.

And claim benefits, as long as they can pass the Habitual Residency Test and claim to be actively seeking work. Although not now for the first 3 months.

A bit of a political answer there, Easterross, cherry-picking the bits you like.


Big Issue sellers nowadays seem to be almost exclusively Roma immigrants. They apparently are self employed doing this and immediately entitled to claim benefits and tax credits.

TwistedFireStopper

SquareRoot said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

SquareRoot said:

edmundintokyo said:

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

You guess wrong. I am just pointing out the contradiction and inviting to him to respond(for the second time).

You've been asking him to respond, even apologise to Soubry all week. I personally can't understand what you think he's done wrong. If Soubry reads this blog and is upset, she can take it up with Nick Palmer herself.
What's it got to do with you?

I see so you want to close down legitimate comment.

Of course I do, I'm a raving leftie socialist, it's what we do.
Or maybe, I'm just bored with your bleating.

Scrapheap_as_was

Another sunday,
Another heavy defeat for England in Australia...
Past performance suggests Spurs get stuffed later today...

JackW

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Another sunday,
Another heavy defeat for England in Australia...
Past performance suggests Spurs get stuffed later today...

Well it is the season for stuffing ....

TheScreamingEagles

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Another sunday,
Another heavy defeat for England in Australia...
Past performance suggests Spurs get stuffed later today...

What happened the last time Spurs played on a Sunday after England suffered a heavy defeat?

*Innocent Face*

SquareRoot

TwistedFireStopper said:

SquareRoot said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

SquareRoot said:

edmundintokyo said:

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

You guess wrong. I am just pointing out the contradiction and inviting to him to respond(for the second time).

You've been asking him to respond, even apologise to Soubry all week. I personally can't understand what you think he's done wrong. If Soubry reads this blog and is upset, she can take it up with Nick Palmer herself.
What's it got to do with you?

I see so you want to close down legitimate comment.

Of course I do, I'm a raving leftie socialist, it's what we do.
Or maybe, I'm just bored with your bleating.

You could always go and do something else. its interesting that you never made this sort of comment to a prolific poster who used to make the same points day in and day out

TwistedFireStopper

SquareRoot said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

SquareRoot said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

SquareRoot said:

edmundintokyo said:

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

You guess wrong. I am just pointing out the contradiction and inviting to him to respond(for the second time).

You've been asking him to respond, even apologise to Soubry all week. I personally can't understand what you think he's done wrong. If Soubry reads this blog and is upset, she can take it up with Nick Palmer herself.
What's it got to do with you?

I see so you want to close down legitimate comment.

Of course I do, I'm a raving leftie socialist, it's what we do.
Or maybe, I'm just bored with your bleating.

You could always go and do something else. its interesting that you never made this sort of comment to a prolific poster who used to make the same points day in and day out

Only interesting to numpty stalkers like you. To quote Bronn "There's no cure for being a........."

Richard_Tyndall

SquareRoot said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

SquareRoot said:

edmundintokyo said:

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

You guess wrong. I am just pointing out the contradiction and inviting to him to respond(for the second time).

You've been asking him to respond, even apologise to Soubry all week. I personally can't understand what you think he's done wrong. If Soubry reads this blog and is upset, she can take it up with Nick Palmer herself.
What's it got to do with you?

I see so you want to close down legitimate comment.

TFS (and most of the rest of us on here) has no interest in closing down legitimate comment. He just wants to make sure everyone is clear on the smear you are attempting to perpetrate on NPXMP.

Now personally I, and I suspect a lot of other people on here, would never be happy to see a Labour candidate win a seat. But Nick might almost be the exception given that he is one of the politest and most tolerant of people I have ever come across on this forum. If he treats his constituents with anything approaching the respect he treats the rest of us on here, even those who regularly shoot him down over his views, then I think they are probably very well served.

In addition of course his opponent is one of the most obnoxious MPs currently squatting in Parliament so she would be no great loss to our political scene.

Your mountain building exercises from mounds that hardly even qualify as molehills is rather sad.

JackW

As it remains the season of goodwill I'll fill in the missing details of TSE's Lord Home answer.

As Lord Dunglass he played first class cricket between 1924-7 for Oxford University, Middlesex and the MCC. In 1930 Lord Dunglass was elected as a Unionist MP for Lanark and held the seat until the Labour landslide of 1945. Immediately prior he held his first government post in Churchill's caretaker government.

Lord Dunglass regained Lanark in 1950 but resigned the seat in 1951 when he succeeded his father as the Earl of Home. He then enjoyed several further ministerial posts including Minister of State for Scotland, SoS for Commonwealth Affairs, Lord President of the Council, Leader of the Lords and Foreign Secretary.

richardDodd

What benefits are the self employed allowed?

DavidL

It is a statement of the obvious that by far the biggest problem Brits have had with immigration is the lunacies of multiculturalism. The bizarre belief that people had the right to come here but still live according to the mores and cultural values of the punjab, for example, is what angers people.

I doubt you could ever find a poll that would oppose the immigration of those that want to come here, get a job and fit in with the British way of life in all it's tolerant variety. This poll seems on the limited information available yet another example of that viewpoint.

FluffyThoughts

To lighten the mood....

Off-topic:

Question: What is a period of six consecutive months of negative-growth called...?

Answer: Please provide (with workings)....

Easterross

What is it about English national cricket. Take a perfectly good county batsman, promote him to the England team and he bashes out centuries right, left and centre.

Make him England Team Captain and his cricketing skills resemble dog poo as he gets caught out for a duck or at best fewer than 50 runs.

Maybe the answer is for England to just accept it is a mediocre nation in sporting terms like the rest of us (Wales, Scotland and N Ireland) and stop importing South Africans and others and making them pretendee Englishmen in order to put them in your team- discuss!

(retreats into my Highland bunker at this point)

DavidL

FluffyThoughts said:

To lighten the mood....

Off-topic:

Question: What is a period of six consecutive months of negative-growth called...?

Answer: Please provide (with workings)....

A Socialist government? See France as a recent example.

malcolmg

richardDodd said:

What benefits are the self employed allowed?

Tax credits, housing benefit, at least and I am sure others , I am however no expert

richardDodd

MG... I have been freelance for over 30 years and never been able to claim one penny in benefits..The reason given.. "Because I was self employed"

saddened

Richard_Tyndall said:

SquareRoot said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

SquareRoot said:

edmundintokyo said:

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

You guess wrong. I am just pointing out the contradiction and inviting to him to respond(for the second time).

You've been asking him to respond, even apologise to Soubry all week. I personally can't understand what you think he's done wrong. If Soubry reads this blog and is upset, she can take it up with Nick Palmer herself.
What's it got to do with you?

I see so you want to close down legitimate comment.

TFS (and most of the rest of us on here) has no interest in closing down legitimate comment. He just wants to make sure everyone is clear on the smear you are attempting to perpetrate on NPXMP.

Now personally I, and I suspect a lot of other people on here, would never be happy to see a Labour candidate win a seat. But Nick might almost be the exception given that he is one of the politest and most tolerant of people I have ever come across on this forum. If he treats his constituents with anything approaching the respect he treats the rest of us on here, even those who regularly shoot him down over his views, then I think they are probably very well served.

In addition of course his opponent is one of the most obnoxious MPs currently squatting in Parliament so she would be no great loss to our political scene.

Your mountain building exercises from mounds that hardly even qualify as molehills is rather sad.

Like, in lieu of a like button.

SR, if you plan on laying traps, it's best not to hang a neon sign from it saying, "caution trap here!"

JosiasJessop

Richard_Tyndall said:

SquareRoot said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

SquareRoot said:

edmundintokyo said:

SquareRoot said:

Positive politics from Nick Palmer?? (according to your website) yet you seem to think that whilst saying that you won't comment on your opponent, you did precisely that with a cheapshot (you remember the post you made on PB about negative incumbency) at her expense posted on here.

I guess the way SquareRoot is hoping this discussion is going to work out is that Nick Palmer says, "I didn't say I won't comment on my opponent, I said I won't talk about the comment she made about Nigel Farage looking like he's got a finger stuck up his arse" and then SquareRoot will be able to say, "You just mentioned it, you hypocrite!".

You guess wrong. I am just pointing out the contradiction and inviting to him to respond(for the second time).

You've been asking him to respond, even apologise to Soubry all week. I personally can't understand what you think he's done wrong. If Soubry reads this blog and is upset, she can take it up with Nick Palmer herself.
What's it got to do with you?

I see so you want to close down legitimate comment.

TFS (and most of the rest of us on here) has no interest in closing down legitimate comment. He just wants to make sure everyone is clear on the smear you are attempting to perpetrate on NPXMP.

Now personally I, and I suspect a lot of other people on here, would never be happy to see a Labour candidate win a seat. But Nick might almost be the exception given that he is one of the politest and most tolerant of people I have ever come across on this forum. If he treats his constituents with anything approaching the respect he treats the rest of us on here, even those who regularly shoot him down over his views, then I think they are probably very well served.

In addition of course his opponent is one of the most obnoxious MPs currently squatting in Parliament so she would be no great loss to our political scene.

Your mountain building exercises from mounds that hardly even qualify as molehills is rather sad.

"But Nick might almost be the exception given that he is one of the politest and most tolerant of people I have ever come across on this forum. If he treats his constituents with anything approaching the respect he treats the rest of us on here,"

Some of us have had a very different experience with NP. But I'd better shut up, or he'll accuse me of stalking him.

Again.

;-)

Richard_Tyndall

Easterross said:

What is it about English national cricket. Take a perfectly good county batsman, promote him to the England team and he bashes out centuries right, left and centre.

Make him England Team Captain and his cricketing skills resemble dog poo as he gets caught out for a duck or at best fewer than 50 runs.

Maybe the answer is for England to just accept it is a mediocre nation in sporting terms like the rest of us (Wales, Scotland and N Ireland) and stop importing South Africans and others and making them pretendee Englishmen in order to put them in your team- discuss!

(retreats into my Highland bunker at this point)

Maybe the answer is to make one of our bowlers captain instead. That way the batting pressure is lessened. We do seem to have had a habit recently of limiting our Captains to top of the order batsmen and maybe that is what should be reconsidered.

Neil

richardDodd said:

MG... I have been freelance for over 30 years and never been able to claim one penny in benefits..The reason given.. "Because I was self employed"

The self-employed generally do better from the National Insurance system than employees (when you compare their contributions to the range of benefits they qualify for). The situation will be even better from April 2016 when the single-tier pension comes in as that's another 30 quid or so a week from State Pension Age for the self-employed for free.

MaxPB

Why is our cricket team so useless. Cook needs to be fired and Strauss be brought back.

malcolmg

richardDodd said:

MG... I have been freelance for over 30 years and never been able to claim one penny in benefits..The reason given.. "Because I was self employed"

Richard, I can only say I am going by what I read in the papers, having never had a benefit in my life.
http://www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/working_or_looking_for_work/self_employment.aspx

SimonStClare

“Britons ready to welcome migrants from Bulgaria and Romania, poll finds”

At best, the Observer headline is misleading – welcome “provided that they “learn English, get a job, pay taxes and become part of their local community.” is one hell of a caveat to leave unsaid.

Under such criteria, I’m surprised the result is still only 68%.

FluffyThoughts

MaxPB said:

Why is our cricket team so useless. Cook needs to be fired and Strauss be brought back.

Silly statement: It is like saying "Why use Windows when we know that UNIX is more stable and scalable". Cook is the here-and-now; tomorrow is where we want to be....

DavidL

Richard_Tyndall said:

Easterross said:

What is it about English national cricket. Take a perfectly good county batsman, promote him to the England team and he bashes out centuries right, left and centre.

Make him England Team Captain and his cricketing skills resemble dog poo as he gets caught out for a duck or at best fewer than 50 runs.

Maybe the answer is for England to just accept it is a mediocre nation in sporting terms like the rest of us (Wales, Scotland and N Ireland) and stop importing South Africans and others and making them pretendee Englishmen in order to put them in your team- discuss!

(retreats into my Highland bunker at this point)

Maybe the answer is to make one of our bowlers captain instead. That way the batting pressure is lessened. We do seem to have had a habit recently of limiting our Captains to top of the order batsmen and maybe that is what should be reconsidered.

If we appointed Broad we could at least get rid of all the review nonsense in his first over. And his batting could hardly deterioate further. To think he once got a century. Now he cannot even hang around.

nigel4england

Who said UKIP are racists:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25539843

JohnLilburne

Neil said:

richardDodd said:

MG... I have been freelance for over 30 years and never been able to claim one penny in benefits..The reason given.. "Because I was self employed"

The self-employed generally do better from the National Insurance system than employees (when you compare their contributions to the range of benefits they qualify for). The situation will be even better from April 2016 when the single-tier pension comes in as that's another 30 quid or so a week from State Pension Age for the self-employed for free.

To claim JSA you have to effectively show you have stopped trading, not just be in a gap between jobs. You also do not qualify for Contribution Based JSA as you have paid the wrong sort of NI. You can get Income-Based JSA but you need to have less than £16K in savings and no working partner.

rolandhaines

A classic Gundaid/ Observer headline. Typical examples, most men prefer sleeping with other men, Nelson Mandela is son of God, BBC right about global warming. Bollox.

nigel4england

Richard_Tyndall said:

Easterross said:

What is it about English national cricket. Take a perfectly good county batsman, promote him to the England team and he bashes out centuries right, left and centre.

Make him England Team Captain and his cricketing skills resemble dog poo as he gets caught out for a duck or at best fewer than 50 runs.

Maybe the answer is for England to just accept it is a mediocre nation in sporting terms like the rest of us (Wales, Scotland and N Ireland) and stop importing South Africans and others and making them pretendee Englishmen in order to put them in your team- discuss!

(retreats into my Highland bunker at this point)

Maybe the answer is to make one of our bowlers captain instead. That way the batting pressure is lessened. We do seem to have had a habit recently of limiting our Captains to top of the order batsmen and maybe that is what should be reconsidered.

Prior may have been OK but he is now the past, Broad seems too much of a hothead and I'm not sure how popular he is in the dressing room either.

Root seems to be the golden boy, maybe make him captain now and let him develop, the Saffers did it with Smith and that worked well enough.

Cook is too defensive and made some quite unfathomable decisions this morning.

MikeSmithson

I've updated the header to include the full question from Ipsos-MORI.

If you were pro immigration without controls then you would probably say disagree.

taffys

Who said UKIP are racists:

I don't think many people, certainly not people on here.

Do you object to people coming here to work, contribute and integrate? bet you don't.

Do you blame people for accessing, free of charge, a first world social welfare/education/health system for themselves and their families given the chance? bet you don;t.

edmundintokyo

MikeSmithson said:

If you were pro immigration without controls then you would probably say disagree.

Yup, I'd disagree with that. I know quite a few migrant workers in Japan, especially Americans, who don't learn Japanese. I think they're missing out, but it's their call - I certainly don't think they should be stopped from living here because of it.

And I'm not sure I know what it means to "fit in" but it certainly doesn't sound like something I'd want to do.

Pulpstar

Right... So I got the technical term wrong. But the poll is obviously looking for a certain result here.

I thought the criteria was being an EU citizen, not 'learning the language', 'working' or 'paying taxes'.

'fitting in' - Whats that doing in a poll question ?
'working HARD' - why not just 'working ?!'

This definitely fits Morris Dancer's 'agenda-driven' poll...

surbiton

CD13 said:

So basically, if they blend in so seamlessly that nobody notices them, 68% wouldn't object. Hmm ... well, that's a shock result, isn't it?

If you don't like the result of a poll, try to trash it !

This is not the first one. There was another which said the 18 - 24 olds would vote to stay in.
We have sensible young people growing up.

Pulpstar

*EiT (Not Mr Dancer)

surbiton

Do the thousands upon thousands of Brit expats who live and work abroad, how many speak the native language ?

One rule for us, one rule for them !

Neil

MikeSmithson said:

If you were pro immigration without controls then you would probably say disagree.

Yup, I would have disagreed.

JohnLilburne

Pulpstar said:

I thought the criteria was being an EU citizen, not 'learning the language', 'working' or 'paying taxes'.

Freedom of movement in the EU is about freedom to live and work, not live and claim benefits. We only need to give people the freedom to come and work here, in practice we have given them a lot more.

One easy step would be to stop recent immigrants claiming Income Support, as they are not available for work.

Another reasonable step would be to stop people claiming child benefit for children living abroad.

JohnLilburne

edmundintokyo said:

MikeSmithson said:

If you were pro immigration without controls then you would probably say disagree.

Yup, I'd disagree with that. I know quite a few migrant workers in Japan, especially Americans, who don't learn Japanese. I think they're missing out, but it's their call - I certainly don't think they should be stopped from living here because of it.

But we then let people claim benefits when the work dries up. I bet the Japanese don't.

You fail to draw a distinction between "live here" and "live here at someone else's expense".

JackW

Clearly a clue required for PB's clueless cricketing aficionados :

Howzat !! .... Disclaiming peerages runs in the family.

FluffyThoughts

surbiton said:

Do the thousands upon thousands of Brit expats who live and work abroad, how many speak the native language ?

One rule for us, one rule for them !

You do understand the difference between speaking/reading and comprehension? The ability to understand the lingo and the ability/acceptability to work to integrate into a host society are different concepts: I still speak little Dutch...!

surbiton

"Nearly half (45%) said that enforcing the minimum wage was one of the most important ways of stopping business undercutting British workers by paying European workers less. "

Pay a living wage, as my firm does. This will also cut welfare costs. It also will dispel suggestions that East European workers are undercutting Brit workers.

Regarding those jobs which Brits refuse to do, well there is little choice. Very soon even EU people will not do those jobs as some already don't.

richardDodd

Surbiton.. I guess most of the Ex Pats are not seeking work and are financially sourced from their hard won pensions

surbiton

FluffyThoughts said:

surbiton said:

Do the thousands upon thousands of Brit expats who live and work abroad, how many speak the native language ?

One rule for us, one rule for them !

You do understand the difference between speaking/reading and comprehension? The ability to understand the lingo and the ability/acceptability to work to integrate into a host society are different concepts: I still speak little Dutch...!

The demand always is to "learn the language". I presume when you speak to a Dutch, you speak English slowly. Or, is it the case that his/her English is better than yours !

JohnLilburne

FluffyThoughts said:

surbiton said:

Do the thousands upon thousands of Brit expats who live and work abroad, how many speak the native language ?

One rule for us, one rule for them !

You do understand the difference between speaking/reading and comprehension? The ability to understand the lingo and the ability/acceptability to work to integrate into a host society are different concepts: I still speak little Dutch...!

Fluffy, if you lost your job and stayed in the Netherlands to look for work, would you be able to claim Dutch social security benefits? And on what basis? - as a resident, because you've paid social taxes etc? Just wondering how the local system works.

JohnLilburne

surbiton said:

Do the thousands upon thousands of Brit expats who live and work abroad, how many speak the native language ?

One rule for us, one rule for them !

Again, "live and work". If you live here and are self-supporting, you can speak whatever f***ing language you like, as far as I am concerned. But if you lose your job and want to claim JSA you should be able to speak English to be considered "available for work" as otherwise your ability to find work is unreasonably restricted.

taffys

''Another reasonable step would be to stop people claiming child benefit for children living abroad.''

Some analysts predict the pound will be the reserve currency of 2014, with one prediction I read of 1.80 against the dollar.

We are going to be just giving this currency away free to anybody in Europe who wants it, together with free schooling and healthcare for unlimited numbers.

For what must be many, many millions of people, its the offer of a bleeding lifetime. You'd be mad not to take it.

surbiton

“Romanians and Bulgarians coming to Britain have got to learn the language, work hard and pay taxes, fit in and be part of the community. If they do that, we should welcome them to the UK”,
two in three (68%) agree, while 13% disagree"

You got the hard core UKIP vote. Right there.

Pulpstar

surbiton said:

“Romanians and Bulgarians coming to Britain have got to learn the language, work hard and pay taxes, fit in and be part of the community. If they do that, we should welcome them to the UK”,
two in three (68%) agree, while 13% disagree"

You got the hard core UKIP vote. Right there.

Never realised Neil was hardcore UKIP.

Neil

taffys said:

For what must be many, many millions of people, its the offer of a bleeding lifetime. You'd be mad not to take it.

I think you probably overestimate the relative attractiveness of life in the UK to many millions of people who have the right to come here.

taffys

I certainly don't think they should be stopped from living here because of it.

Do these ex-pat Americans get free welfare? Free schooling in one of the world's best funded public systems? Free healthcare at the point of use immediately for unlimited family members? housing benefits? Child benefits?

FluffyThoughts

JohnLilburne said:

Fluffy, if you lost your job and stayed in the Netherlands to look for work, would you be able to claim Dutch social security benefits? And on what basis? - as a resident, because you've paid social taxes etc? Just wondering how the local system works.

I arrived in 2010: I should hope so (even if I have - morally - chosen not to join their "immigrant" database). That said: I know of an unemployed Argentine lawyer who is live in Noord-Brabant with full benefits for the last three years....

Editted-to-add: The Health System is privatised and run from Groningen: If you do not speak Dutch* they refuse to answer why - despite EHIC - you have to pay Euro-375/quarter in fines for being English.

* Except when I told them not to bother me if they can't get their ass-in-gear....

surbiton

JohnLilburne said:

surbiton said:

Do the thousands upon thousands of Brit expats who live and work abroad, how many speak the native language ?

One rule for us, one rule for them !

Again, "live and work". If you live here and are self-supporting, you can speak whatever f***ing language you like, as far as I am concerned. But if you lose your job and want to claim JSA you should be able to speak English to be considered "available for work" as otherwise your ability to find work is unreasonably restricted.

Would YOU welcome such people who are here and are self-supporting, can speak whatever f***ing language they do as long as they do not claim benefits ?

Remember the operative word in the question is "welcome"

I know a Bulgarian, who works damn hard. I bet she and her husband work the hours and sends money to their 15 year old daughter in Bulgaria who lives with her granny. I have nothing but respect for such people. They are sponging of nobody.

edmundintokyo

JohnLilburne said:

edmundintokyo said:

MikeSmithson said:

If you were pro immigration without controls then you would probably say disagree.

Yup, I'd disagree with that. I know quite a few migrant workers in Japan, especially Americans, who don't learn Japanese. I think they're missing out, but it's their call - I certainly don't think they should be stopped from living here because of it.

But we then let people claim benefits when the work dries up. I bet the Japanese don't.

You fail to draw a distinction between "live here" and "live here at someone else's expense".

It's the polling question that's failing to draw that distinction. They're requiring both.

But since you ask, yes, if I lost my job I'd be eligible for unemployment benefits.

taffys

I think you probably overestimate the relative attractiveness of life in the UK to many millions of people who have the right to come here.

Perhaps, We are very crowded, house prices are extremely expensive and the winter is total sh8t.

Richard_Tyndall

surbiton said:

CD13 said:

So basically, if they blend in so seamlessly that nobody notices them, 68% wouldn't object. Hmm ... well, that's a shock result, isn't it?

If you don't like the result of a poll, try to trash it !

This is not the first one. There was another which said the 18 - 24 olds would vote to stay in.
We have sensible young people growing up.

To quote the French statesman François Guizot.

"Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head."

The same applies just as much to the young today.

surbiton

edmundintokyo said:

JohnLilburne said:

edmundintokyo said:

MikeSmithson said:

If you were pro immigration without controls then you would probably say disagree.

Yup, I'd disagree with that. I know quite a few migrant workers in Japan, especially Americans, who don't learn Japanese. I think they're missing out, but it's their call - I certainly don't think they should be stopped from living here because of it.

But we then let people claim benefits when the work dries up. I bet the Japanese don't.

You fail to draw a distinction between "live here" and "live here at someone else's expense".

It's the polling question that's failing to draw that distinction. They're requiring both.

But since you ask, yes, if I lost my job I'd be eligible for unemployment benefits.

Edmund, behind all these requirements lies the "R-word". All else is just dressing up. The same people completely ignore that Brits are also using services in other EU countries. Of course, they are Brits, therefore, they are entitled to it !

FrankBooth

We've just had the release of some terrible trade figures so I'm not sure we should be welcoming a strengthening pound. If it's true then we'll just continue to live beyond our means. And why rise to $1.80? Sounds unlikely.

Richard_Tyndall

surbiton said:

FluffyThoughts said:

surbiton said:

Do the thousands upon thousands of Brit expats who live and work abroad, how many speak the native language ?

One rule for us, one rule for them !

You do understand the difference between speaking/reading and comprehension? The ability to understand the lingo and the ability/acceptability to work to integrate into a host society are different concepts: I still speak little Dutch...!

The demand always is to "learn the language". I presume when you speak to a Dutch, you speak English slowly. Or, is it the case that his/her English is better than yours !

It is a demand that is prevalent in many of the more socially advanced countries. Norway being the example that springs most readily to mind. I would have thought a good socialist like you was all in favour of social inclusion.

surbiton

FluffyThoughts said:

JohnLilburne said:

Fluffy, if you lost your job and stayed in the Netherlands to look for work, would you be able to claim Dutch social security benefits? And on what basis? - as a resident, because you've paid social taxes etc? Just wondering how the local system works.

I arrived in 2010: I should hope so (even if I have - morally - chosen not to join their "immigrant" database). That said: I know of an unemployed Argentine lawyer who is live in Noord-Brabant with full benefits for the last three years....

Editted-to-add: The Health System is privatised and run from Groningen: If you do not speak Dutch* they refuse to answer why - despite EHIC - you have to pay Euro-375/quarter in fines for being English.

* Except when I told them not to bother me if they can't get their ass-in-gear....

Exactly ! In Germany and in Ireland the benefits are better than in the UK.

FluffyThoughts

Neil said:

I think you probably overestimate the relative attractiveness of life in the UK to many millions of people who have the right to come here.

How many Londoners in Donegal; I know of four Donegal lads-and-lasses in my Lewisham local? * Then there is you Bermondsey boi....

* In which I have consumed many a beer when not in Eindhoven. Just to keep the actuary in place...

felix

I'm baffled at the idea that this poll is pro-immigration. If anything it bolsters the govt. view that the days of the open door should be gone for good. The Observer headline is pure spin and pretty ineffective at that.

taffys

In Germany and in Ireland the benefits are better than in the UK.

We aren't comparing like with like though are we? Isn't Germany's benefits system contribution based? isn't their health system a mixture of public and private? Isn't Ireland's health system insurance based?

In the UK all the above are free at the point of use to anyone in the EU who wishes to use them.

surbiton

SeanT said:

Examine the language of the question and it shows the opposite to what the Guardian might wish:

"Romanians and Bulgarians coming to Britain have GOT to learn the language, WORK HARD and pay taxes, FIT IN AND BE PART OF THE COMMUNITY. If they do that, we should welcome them to the UK”, two in three (68%) agree, while 13% disagree"

Say it again: You HAVE to learn the language (no ifs no buts), you HAVE to get a job (i.e. no Roma selling Big Issues), and you have to SUBMIT TO BRITISH VALUES and "FIT IN" (i.e. no more rural Pakistani Muslims at all, thanks). Otherwise, you are not wanted.

This poll therefore reveals that 68% of the British people view immigration the same way as the rightwing of the Conservative party, where it shades into UKIP. And let's not forget that 13% are even further right than this.

The Lib Dems and Labourites should find this poll disturbing, as it proves their multicultural values and pro-immigration mores are completely out of fashion, if not publicly reviled.

Your disturbed mind thinks all Labour and Lib Dem supporters want is the right to claim benefits.

What percentage of recent immigrants claim benefits ? 1,2 % max.