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In other news – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,168
edited November 2020 in General
In other news – politicalbetting.com

Public sector net debt was £2,076.8 billion at the end of October 2020, or 100.8% of GDP, an increase of £276.3 billion across the first seven months of the financial year https://t.co/i2U5uk9ikf pic.twitter.com/uj5MpUeRif

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    edited November 2020
    The M20 situation is very worrying, we basically live at the westernmost end of it (after it becomes the A20). If roads to Kent become gridlocked then SE London will also become a giant traffic jam. I hope people enjoy their sovereignty.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001

    The M20 situation is very worrying, we basically live at the westernmost end of it (after it becomes the A20). If roads to Kent become gridlocked then SE London will also become a giant traffic jam. I hope people enjoy their sovereignty.

    Brexit would be fine if only everybody else in the World did what we wanted.

    Don't they understand we took back control?
  • Scott_xP said:
    No specific vote on the matter will be required under the Act, legislation would only be required if they were to extend the waiver beyond a year.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited November 2020
    RobD said:

    They should keep the 0.7%, and in the next two years spend it on getting the Oxford jab out there for free.

    Seems like a no brainer politically. Make it clear no more funding Chinese musical theatre, and instead we are going to help rid the world of Covid. That would keep both the Daily Mail lot happy, who think the budget is wasted on rubbish and also the Guardian / Churchy types who think we should if anything be doing more.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    RobD said:

    They should keep the 0.7%, and in the next two years spend it on getting the Oxford jab out there for free.

    This is such a no brainer that I can only presume that they did not think that they could announce this until the Oxford vaccine has been officially approved. I wonder if they are simply trying to create the spare capacity for this. If so, they are doing this somewhat ineptly.
  • A British-Australian academic serving a 10-year sentence in Iran for espionage has been freed in exchange for three jailed Iranians, Iranian media say.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55077744
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,666
    edited November 2020
    FPT

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    By the look of him, he’s been spending too much money on boozy lunches.
    Nasty nasty politics from you.

    I'm not a fan of Edward Leigh but he's got an incurable medical condition that causes that appearance.

    Do you mock people with cerebral palsy as well for cheap gags?
    Come on - I`m sure Ian didn`t know that.
    I've posted a few times on here about his condition.
    Never heard that before, here or anywhere else. What is the condition as a matter of interest?
    Rosacea.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-51852521

    It is a disease that generally happens to women but for the men who suffer from it tend to suffer much worse from it.

    It is a horrible horrible disease because lots of people automatically assume that you're an alcoholic and lots of everyday things trigger it.

    I know a few people who suffer from it, it is traumatic, one female friend suffers from it, she put on a bit of weight from being pregnant and couldn't shake it off after giving birth, so she decided to do exercise which made it worse, and her kid kept on crying every time she picked her up when she had the red face.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,451

    A British-Australian academic serving a 10-year sentence in Iran for espionage has been freed in exchange for three jailed Iranians, Iranian media say.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55077744

    Don't know the case, but just shows that Iran imprisons westerners as hostages to extract concessions.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Surely they can spend some of the £500k that they extorted from the JR? That was at least 10x what the bill should have been, arguably more.
  • DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2020

    FPT

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    By the look of him, he’s been spending too much money on boozy lunches.
    Nasty nasty politics from you.

    I'm not a fan of Edward Leigh but he's got an incurable medical condition that causes that appearance.

    Do you mock people with cerebral palsy as well for cheap gags?
    Come on - I`m sure Ian didn`t know that.
    I've posted a few times on here about his condition.
    Never heard that before, here or anywhere else. What is the condition as a matter of interest?
    Rosacea.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-51852521

    It is a disease that generally happens to women but for the men who suffer from it tend to suffer much worse from it.

    It is a horrible horrible disease because lots of people automatically assume that you're an alcoholic and lots of everyday things trigger it.

    I know a few people who suffer from it, it is traumatic, one female friend suffers from it, she put on a bit of weight from being pregnant and couldn't shake it off after giving birth, so she decided to do exercise which made it worse, and her kid kept on crying every time she picked her up when she had the red face.
    When you were asked to expand on saying Edward Leigh had "an incurable medical condition that causes that appearance." I was hoping beyond hope you would reply "He's an alcoholic!"

    Never mind
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    They should keep the 0.7%, and in the next two years spend it on getting the Oxford jab out there for free.

    This is such a no brainer that I can only presume that they did not think that they could announce this until the Oxford vaccine has been officially approved. I wonder if they are simply trying to create the spare capacity for this. If so, they are doing this somewhat ineptly.
    I agree.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    CNN - Britain's final Brexit choice could prolong the worst recession in 300 years
  • DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    Today was only the starter, wait until the main course next year
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    Makes some sort of sense I suppose but we absolutely want the vaccine uptake to be as high as possible everywhere and this seems to me to be a very good use of UK taxpayer's money right now.

    I really hope the deal comes this week. Even by EU standards this is getting absolutely ridiculous.
  • DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    IanB2 said:

    CNN - Britain's final Brexit choice could prolong the worst recession in 300 years

    Doubtful, unless they think it'll undo the Covid bounce.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    I would suggest that any parliament that slams the country into Tier III at the same time as rejecting the cut in overseas aid really really is playing with fire. Really.
  • Rishi has said that continuing support will be announced in the budget when the finance has become clearer in the spring
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    "Debt is exploding, but a deluded, spendthrift Government has no intention of living within its means
    Ross Clark"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/25/debt-exploding-deluded-spendthrift-government-has-no-intention/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Can we just give the Governor of the BoE a stuffed envelope and tell him to lop a zero off the national debt? ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,127

    I would suggest that any parliament that slams the country into Tier III at the same time as rejecting the cut in overseas aid really really is playing with fire. Really.

    Yes, it would be a Farage wet dream
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,803
    I became an OAP just a few days ago. Haven't even received my first pension payment yet.

    However I have received a letter telling me of the £10 Christmas bonus being paid into my account now.

    Completely forgot about this. Can't work out if I am chuffed to bits by the surprised or annoyed by the pointless costs of writing to me and paying such a trivial amount.

    Confused!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    isam said:

    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described

    I`m not a fan of costume dramas. So haven`t watched The Crown. Should I?
  • A British-Australian academic serving a 10-year sentence in Iran for espionage has been freed in exchange for three jailed Iranians, Iranian media say.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55077744

    Don't know the case, but just shows that Iran imprisons westerners as hostages to extract concessions.
    In our case I think they want us to pay them some money that they (and I think most reasonable observers) believe we owe them.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2020
    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described

    I`m not a fan of costume dramas. So haven`t watched The Crown. Should I?
    I really like it, binge watching it so we can watch the new series together as my gf has seen series 1-3 already. No idea if it is historically accurate or not, artistic licence used no doubt, but a good story anyway.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    I would suggest that any parliament that slams the country into Tier III at the same time as rejecting the cut in overseas aid really really is playing with fire. Really.

    Given that it is, I think, accepted that it will be future generations who foot the bill for all this then I guess it comes down to future generations v foreign aid. Which one do you want to prioritise?

    0.7% (or 0.5%) of GDP is eye-wateringly high, but it may still be in the national interest to maintain it? Dunno.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,214
    HYUFD said:

    I would suggest that any parliament that slams the country into Tier III at the same time as rejecting the cut in overseas aid really really is playing with fire. Really.

    Yes, it would be a Farage wet dream
    So he's running the show then. Never bothered getting elected but who needs it.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    I would suggest that any parliament that slams the country into Tier III at the same time as rejecting the cut in overseas aid really really is playing with fire. Really.

    Yes, it would be a Farage wet dream
    So he's running the show then. Never bothered getting elected but who needs it.
    A less successful politician than the Tory who has held Poshington-on-the-Wold since the late 70s though
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited November 2020
    Maradona dead at just 60 - Drink and Drugs are bad, mmmmhhh ok kids.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    edited November 2020

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,803

    A British-Australian academic serving a 10-year sentence in Iran for espionage has been freed in exchange for three jailed Iranians, Iranian media say.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55077744

    Don't know the case, but just shows that Iran imprisons westerners as hostages to extract concessions.
    In our case I think they want us to pay them some money that they (and I think most reasonable observers) believe we owe them.
    My father was a junior civil servant involved in the sale of the tanks (or rather the non sale) to Iran at the time. He often regales the events much to our embarrassment as he doesn't get that he is telling the story of a major cockup. In fairness to him I doubt he was at all responsible.

    The cherry on the cake being the tanks were eventually finally sold to Iraq.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    The 0.7% rule has only been around for a few years in the UK.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    edited November 2020
    isam said:

    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described

    Personally I rate the series in the following order

    2
    1 (thought it was better than given credit for -including you it seems!)
    3
    4 (it was just a bit too serious imo)

  • RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    The 0.7% rule has only been around for a few years in the UK.
    2015...so by "all stripes", that will be Tories.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    Of course, if you are a populist then: what people want = the right thing to do.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    And in more good news, Trump's campaign is now being sued in Federal court for breaching voting rights legislation:

    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-campaign-sued-for-attempting-to-disenfranchise-black-voters-100000739.html
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,059
    kjh said:

    I became an OAP just a few days ago. Haven't even received my first pension payment yet.

    However I have received a letter telling me of the £10 Christmas bonus being paid into my account now.

    Completely forgot about this. Can't work out if I am chuffed to bits by the surprised or annoyed by the pointless costs of writing to me and paying such a trivial amount.

    Confused!

    Was first introduced in 1972, but the amount of money has never changed. If it had kept up with inflation it would be over £130 now!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    The 0.7% rule has only been around for a few years in the UK.
    2015...so by "all stripes", that will be Tories.
    Not even the Coalition. :D
  • How much of the "debt" is owed to the Bank of England? Debt that you owe yourself isn't really debt is it...
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    HYUFD said:

    I would suggest that any parliament that slams the country into Tier III at the same time as rejecting the cut in overseas aid really really is playing with fire. Really.

    Yes, it would be a Farage wet dream
    Presumably the consequence of Farage thinking about himself while asleep.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Wish you hadn`t posted that. That`s terrifying. What is Canada doing?
  • DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    Let's hope so.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    ping said:

    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    They should keep the 0.7%, and in the next two years spend it on getting the Oxford jab out there for free.

    This is such a no brainer that I can only presume that they did not think that they could announce this until the Oxford vaccine has been officially approved. I wonder if they are simply trying to create the spare capacity for this. If so, they are doing this somewhat ineptly.
    I agree.

    I can just about see them being nervous of doing anything at all that might be thought to impinge on the impartiality of the approval process.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    isam said:

    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described

    Personally I rate the series in the following order

    2
    1 (thought it was better than given credit for -including you it seems!)
    3
    4 (it was just a bit too serious imo)

    I'd go 2, 3, 1, 4. Did not like season 1 at all and it took a lot to persuade me to watch season 2, but then I was hooked. Found season 4 way to judgmental and preachy - all that I do not like about the direction 'comedy' has gone.
  • DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    We are continuing to provide 0.5% of GDP which is better than most other countries and as I understand it it is for one year

    I would have preferred it was folded into free covid vaccinations for third world countries but I am more concerned about what is coming next spring when today's announcements will be seen as the starter to many controversial decisions

  • A British-Australian academic serving a 10-year sentence in Iran for espionage has been freed in exchange for three jailed Iranians, Iranian media say.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55077744

    Don't know the case, but just shows that Iran imprisons westerners as hostages to extract concessions.
    I don't know the case either, but logically it could just as well show that the West imprisons Iranians as hostages to extract concessions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited November 2020
    I see again today no sign of the new covid cases numbers at / around 4pm. Is there some issue at PHE?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,551
    Thanks for the article. Very interesting. Two comments:

    Why should we trust this or any government not to allow debt to spiral out of control when they never managed to recover, despite endless promises, to the point where the books were more or less balanced following the crash of 2008.

    Secondly, you claim 'Western Europeans' are far too ignorant of issues on the eastern flank of the EU. Western Europe is a geographical abstraction. Do you mean the EU (in which case whose army?) or NATO, or big western nation governments, in which case How do you know?
  • Not a single other comparable economy is honouring the international 0.7% commitment right now so I fail to see why we should either. If we did in the future as part of getting other economies to do the same then that would raise more money but right now us continuing to do so unilaterally is as insane as advocating unilateral nuclear disarmament during the Cold War.

    I'd be delighted to restore the 0.7% of GDP commitment to foreign aid, without other economies doing so too, if anyone can explain how the UK can afford to do that this year without a budget deficit. If anyone has any good ideas how to afford that then I'm all ears.
  • isam said:

    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described

    Personally I rate the series in the following order

    2
    1 (thought it was better than given credit for -including you it seems!)
    3
    4 (it was just a bit too serious imo)

    isam said:

    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described

    Personally I rate the series in the following order

    2
    1 (thought it was better than given credit for -including you it seems!)
    3
    4 (it was just a bit too serious imo)

    I would agree with your 2, 1, 3 ordering. I'm currently mid way through 4 and so far I'd put it maybe second only to 2 I think.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    CNN - Britain's final Brexit choice could prolong the worst recession in 300 years

    Doubtful, unless they think it'll undo the Covid bounce.
    The government is forecasting growth of over 5% next year. That won't make up what has been lost this year, not even half, but it sure as hell isn't a recession.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    I'm increasingly worried the Foreign Aid move is some last gasp Cummings'esque cunning plan to distract from something else. I don't support the move personally, I'd have kept it at 0.7%, but the way people are reacting to a reduction in a pretty arbitrary figure, and which might be set for a classic government u-turn, almost feels tailor made to have distracted from something as it gets very disproportionate levels of attention and moral outrage.

    Probably my imagination.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Given the way the support for the latter is shrinking, you are surely right.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,803
    CatMan said:

    kjh said:

    I became an OAP just a few days ago. Haven't even received my first pension payment yet.

    However I have received a letter telling me of the £10 Christmas bonus being paid into my account now.

    Completely forgot about this. Can't work out if I am chuffed to bits by the surprised or annoyed by the pointless costs of writing to me and paying such a trivial amount.

    Confused!

    Was first introduced in 1972, but the amount of money has never changed. If it had kept up with inflation it would be over £130 now!
    Suppose I should be grateful it isn't be prorated. It would have been less than a £1.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    CNN - Britain's final Brexit choice could prolong the worst recession in 300 years

    Doubtful, unless they think it'll undo the Covid bounce.
    The government is forecasting growth of over 5% next year. That won't make up what has been lost this year, not even half, but it sure as hell isn't a recession.
    Oh thank goodness!

    Reminds me a bit of some of the coalition years, in that I don't think it really matters whether you are or are not in technical recession, what matters is whether people feel like they are in one. Enough didn't then (I think with revisions we technically avoided one) to punish the government, more probably will next year even though we won't be, because of the severity of the initial shock and its aftermath.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    TimT said:

    isam said:

    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described

    Personally I rate the series in the following order

    2
    1 (thought it was better than given credit for -including you it seems!)
    3
    4 (it was just a bit too serious imo)

    I'd go 2, 3, 1, 4. Did not like season 1 at all and it took a lot to persuade me to watch season 2, but then I was hooked. Found season 4 way to judgmental and preachy - all that I do not like about the direction 'comedy' has gone.
    According to below, 4 was the best (16th).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BFI_TV_100#Full_list
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    I see again today no sign of the new covid cases numbers at / around 4pm. Is there some issue at PHE?

    You mean apart from being spectacularly useless?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described

    I`m not a fan of costume dramas. So haven`t watched The Crown. Should I?
    It’s well produced and acted.

    Do Barbour jackets and Wellington boots count as costume drama?
  • Although The Blackadder had the amazing Brian Blessed in it and this great idea that Blackadder is a useless idiot. Love this bit at the beginning of one episode:

    BLESSED: "St Juniper once said, “By his loins shall ye know him and by the length of his rod shall he be measured.” The length of my rod is a mystery to all but the Queen, and a thousand Turkish whores, but the fruits of my loins are here for all to see. I have two sons, Henry and
    …. another one."

    Reminds me of the PM for some reason...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited November 2020

    Not a single other comparable economy is honouring the international 0.7% commitment right now so I fail to see why we should either. If we did in the future as part of getting other economies to do the same then that would raise more money but right now us continuing to do so unilaterally is as insane as advocating unilateral nuclear disarmament during the Cold War.

    I'd be delighted to restore the 0.7% of GDP commitment to foreign aid, without other economies doing so too, if anyone can explain how the UK can afford to do that this year without a budget deficit. If anyone has any good ideas how to afford that then I'm all ears.

    French are a load of stingy bastards...

    https://fullfact.org/economy/how-much-money-does-uk-spend-aid-compared-rest-g7/

    Funny how no complaints about the UK aid spending 2008/09....
  • DavidL said:

    I see again today no sign of the new covid cases numbers at / around 4pm. Is there some issue at PHE?

    You mean apart from being spectacularly useless?
    I'll set them up, you knock'em down....
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    The 0.7% rule has only been around for a few years in the UK.
    Okay sorry, I should have added "since 2013" in my No. 3. Apparently the target was first set by the UN in 1970, so it has quite a long history.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described

    I`m not a fan of costume dramas. So haven`t watched The Crown. Should I?
    It's pretty boring, so unless you have a general liking for high production values and good acting regardless of content, possibly not.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    The 0.7% rule has only been around for a few years in the UK.
    Okay sorry, I should have added "since 2013" in my No. 3. Apparently the target was first set by the UN in 1970, so it has quite a long history.
    Yeah, the UK only met it in 2013, and it was only in statute in 2015.
  • DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    1: True
    2: Not really. I've seen no evidence at all that it meaningfully let alone significantly contributes to UK's soft power.
    3: Also not true. For most of Labour's period of office it was running at 0.37% of GDP so even "cut" it will still be more than Labour were spending.
    4: It can't be afforded. The deficit is much bigger and this is expenditure we literally can't afford and it does nothing to help the UK's economy. Any other cuts would hurt our economy more.

    Also notworthy is that this is the only department not to face austerity in recent years besides the NHS. A return to austerity in other departments isn't really viable, austerity in the NHS isn't viable, so this is the only soft money left. And if we can afford to pay David Milliband millions per year for "charity" or "aid" then this is a sector that can afford some austerity.
  • How much of the "debt" is owed to the Bank of England? Debt that you owe yourself isn't really debt is it...

    but conversely - how much debt is off balance sheet like unfunded pension liabilities . The whole of government accounts list all this in good detail (just google to get it)
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388
    Stocky said:

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    Of course, if you are a populist then: what people want = the right thing to do.
    Quite so. And if we'd followed that line, we'd probably never have ended either capital or corporal punishment, and there'd be no immigrants in the UK. And so on.
  • Strange - Maradona has died 15 years to the day George Best died
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,214
    edited November 2020
    A great great player. I remember like it was yesterday -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY40__rBvSk
  • Maradona has died!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361

    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    The 0.7% rule has only been around for a few years in the UK.
    Okay sorry, I should have added "since 2013" in my No. 3. Apparently the target was first set by the UN in 1970, so it has quite a long history.
    It is an aspirational target, like NATO military spending. More honoured in the breach than the observance.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited November 2020

    Strange - Maradona has died 15 years to the day George Best died

    And basically due to the same thing...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    Diego Maradona can now shake God by that hand.....

    RIP. Let's be magnanimous.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    CNN - Britain's final Brexit choice could prolong the worst recession in 300 years

    Doubtful, unless they think it'll undo the Covid bounce.
    The government is forecasting growth of over 5% next year. That won't make up what has been lost this year, not even half, but it sure as hell isn't a recession.
    Oh thank goodness!

    Reminds me a bit of some of the coalition years, in that I don't think it really matters whether you are or are not in technical recession, what matters is whether people feel like they are in one. Enough didn't then (I think with revisions we technically avoided one) to punish the government, more probably will next year even though we won't be, because of the severity of the initial shock and its aftermath.
    An awful lot will depend on how fast the UK jobs miracle fires up again. If we get rising unemployment over an extended period it won't feel like or be reported as growth, even if it is.
  • RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    The 0.7% rule has only been around for a few years in the UK.
    Okay sorry, I should have added "since 2013" in my No. 3. Apparently the target was first set by the UN in 1970, so it has quite a long history.
    Yes it has a long history of not being met.

    We can't afford it, we should honour that long history of not meeting it until we can without running a deficit.

    How is that unreasonable?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,803
    TimT said:

    isam said:

    How is this for a million to one shot coming in?

    When I was about 10 , BlackAdder II was my favourite comedy, to a ridiculous level of anorakness; I reckon I could probably still recite every word. I hadn't seen the first series so went and bought the video with my pocket money, and thought it was shit. Then BlackAdder the Third came on, I was super excited, and felt very let down. "Goes Forth" was better but none of them hold a candle to "II" for me.

    Anyway, I digress. A couple of Saturday evenings ago we were watching an episode of The Crown Season One on Netflix, and I said to my missus that it reminded me of a scene from the first episode of BlackAdder II, where Bob/Kate says to Edmund she'd like him to meet her father, Edmund turns around and asks what he thinks is an old beggar loitering in the corridor to move along, not knowing it is his prospective FiL.

    The episode of The Crown ends, we switch our tv from Netflix to Sky, (this is 830-9ish on a Saturday Night, Prime Time viewing in lockdown), and what is on BBC1? That very episode, a 35 year old repeat, two mins away from the scene I had described

    Personally I rate the series in the following order

    2
    1 (thought it was better than given credit for -including you it seems!)
    3
    4 (it was just a bit too serious imo)

    I'd go 2, 3, 1, 4. Did not like season 1 at all and it took a lot to persuade me to watch season 2, but then I was hooked. Found season 4 way to judgmental and preachy - all that I do not like about the direction 'comedy' has gone.
    I have to vote for 3 because my sister in law is Sally Cheapside.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Not a single other comparable economy is honouring the international 0.7% commitment right now so I fail to see why we should either. If we did in the future as part of getting other economies to do the same then that would raise more money but right now us continuing to do so unilaterally is as insane as advocating unilateral nuclear disarmament during the Cold War.

    I'd be delighted to restore the 0.7% of GDP commitment to foreign aid, without other economies doing so too, if anyone can explain how the UK can afford to do that this year without a budget deficit. If anyone has any good ideas how to afford that then I'm all ears.

    I don't see an issue, necessarily, with maintaining it even now, nor do I think a failure of others to reach that level in itself means we should do the same or that it is even ok.

    However, it does place into context how outraged we should be, and I think when people treat something most others don't do either as beyond the pale, it is a hard sell to the public. Particularly when there is not a magic line wherein you are moral at 0.7% but not at, say, 0.6%.

    It's still possible, maybe even reasonable, to criticise based on priorities and moralities, but it really feels more like one of those decisions to be analysed with detachment rather than some great moral outrage.
  • Pray a moment's silence for the man who defeated England... single-handedly ;)

    RIP Maradona, prince of every cwm and glen in the land.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,127
    RIP Maradona
  • kinabalu said:

    A great great player. I remember like it was yesterday -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY40__rBvSk

    The second one should also have been disallowed should it not? Hoddle was fouled off the ball:

    https://youtu.be/3K5ixKDeao8?t=33
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221

    FPT

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    By the look of him, he’s been spending too much money on boozy lunches.
    Nasty nasty politics from you.

    I'm not a fan of Edward Leigh but he's got an incurable medical condition that causes that appearance.

    Do you mock people with cerebral palsy as well for cheap gags?
    Come on - I`m sure Ian didn`t know that.
    I've posted a few times on here about his condition.
    Never heard that before, here or anywhere else. What is the condition as a matter of interest?
    Rosacea.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-51852521

    It is a disease that generally happens to women but for the men who suffer from it tend to suffer much worse from it.

    It is a horrible horrible disease because lots of people automatically assume that you're an alcoholic and lots of everyday things trigger it.

    I know a few people who suffer from it, it is traumatic, one female friend suffers from it, she put on a bit of weight from being pregnant and couldn't shake it off after giving birth, so she decided to do exercise which made it worse, and her kid kept on crying every time she picked her up when she had the red face.
    J P Morgan was a famous sufferer.
  • Maradona broke this seven year old's heart in 1986.

    Never forgave him.
  • kinabalu said:

    A great great player. I remember like it was yesterday -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY40__rBvSk

    No complaints about the second goal. RIP.
  • DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    1: True
    2: Not really. I've seen no evidence at all that it meaningfully let alone significantly contributes to UK's soft power.
    3: Also not true. For most of Labour's period of office it was running at 0.37% of GDP so even "cut" it will still be more than Labour were spending.
    4: It can't be afforded. The deficit is much bigger and this is expenditure we literally can't afford and it does nothing to help the UK's economy. Any other cuts would hurt our economy more.

    Also notworthy is that this is the only department not to face austerity in recent years besides the NHS. A return to austerity in other departments isn't really viable, austerity in the NHS isn't viable, so this is the only soft money left. And if we can afford to pay David Milliband millions per year for "charity" or "aid" then this is a sector that can afford some austerity.
    Given the recent promise of large amounts of cash to the military, one can only surmise that the proposed cut in the foreign aid budget represents a shift from the carrot to the stick approach to foreign policy. Popular among some, perhaps a majority, but not necessarily the best investment in the future.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    DavidL said:

    A minister has now resigned in protest at the cut in overseas aid: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/foreign-office-minister-quits-after-chancellor-slashes-overseas-aid/ar-BB1blNV0?ocid=msedgntp

    Not anyone I had ever heard of to be honest but in the scope of the numbers Rishi was dishing up today this seems odd.

    The theory I've heard is that Boris Johnson is throwing the Brexit right, who have never been keen on International Aid, some red meat before he shafts them with his EU deal.
    60% support for cut in foreign aid is a lot more than the Brexit right
    Big G (and others) is it not possible that:

    1. Foreign aid is not popular with the public - it never really has been, except among the well-heeled middle classes. There has always been, and always will be, a majority against it in polls.
    2. Nevertheless, foreign aid should continue undiminished, as it is recognised that it helps the poor overseas and, coincidentally but significantly, contributes to Britain's 'soft power'.
    3. That's why governments of all stripes have maintained the 0.7% contribution.
    4. Therefore this government shouldn't renege on its manifesto commitment - the aid is being reduced anyway, as it's 0.7% of less.

    The route to poor governance really is always doing what opinion polls show is "what the people want", rather than what is the right thing to do.
    Of course, if you are a populist then: what people want = the right thing to do.
    Quite so. And if we'd followed that line, we'd probably never have ended either capital or corporal punishment, and there'd be no immigrants in the UK. And so on.
    Representative democracy over direct democracy every time for me.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Pray a moment's silence for the man who defeated England... single-handedly ;)

    RIP Maradona, prince of every cwm and glen in the land.

    You can go off folk you know.
This discussion has been closed.