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Labour’s challenge with antisemitism – Corbyn gets his membership back and the problem remains – pol

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  • Scott_xP said:
    Now its been pointed out to them it must be a sensitive spot
  • Mr. Fishing, I think that's a pretty fair assessment.

    Given the blithering idiot in Number 10, it's not bad.

    A difficulty assessing either this or any other government is that you can't compare with the alternative. We don't know how many people are alive now who would've died if things had been different, and we only know some of the people who might have died with things being different.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739

    Now its been pointed out to them it must be a sensitive spot

    Someone had to point it out.

    They were clearly incapable of finding it themselves
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,962
    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The comments on Twitter under this Sainsbury's ad - that has the temerity to show a black family celebrating Christmas - are a sight to behold. I only became aware of it as it was filmed in a house a couple of streets down from me. As others have noted, people had less of a problem with the Asda ad which portrayed a family of carrots.

    https://twitter.com/sainsburys/status/1327506558322880514?s=20

    Holy fck. "Another reason to boycott sainsburys." And people think the idea there is racism in this country is neo-marxist gibberish cooked up by BLM.
    I don’t think it’s a good idea to have an advert for black people, and presumably one for white/another for Asian though do you? Unless they all pop round each other’s houses and party together in the last one (which would infringe social distancing)
    Advertising is all about inner city lifestyles. The requirement to have "inclusivity" has now got to the point where it is amusing. Pity any poor young straight white person in the SW trying to get into telly. They ain't never gonna tick no boxes.

    Still, we shold celebrate it as a move on from "two c's in a k".....
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,463
    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The comments on Twitter under this Sainsbury's ad - that has the temerity to show a black family celebrating Christmas - are a sight to behold. I only became aware of it as it was filmed in a house a couple of streets down from me. As others have noted, people had less of a problem with the Asda ad which portrayed a family of carrots.

    https://twitter.com/sainsburys/status/1327506558322880514?s=20

    Holy fck. "Another reason to boycott sainsburys." And people think the idea there is racism in this country is neo-marxist gibberish cooked up by BLM.
    I don’t think it’s a good idea to have an advert for black people, and presumably one for white/another for Asian though do you? Unless they all pop round each other’s houses and party together in the last one (which would infringe social distancing)
    It's not an advert 'for' black people. It's just an advert for people, about Christmas and gravy.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,557

    Mr. Fishing, I think that's a pretty fair assessment.

    Given the blithering idiot in Number 10, it's not bad.

    A difficulty assessing either this or any other government is that you can't compare with the alternative. We don't know how many people are alive now who would've died if things had been different, and we only know some of the people who might have died with things being different.

    That is true and also the epidemic hasn't run its course yet. But we can get some indication from looking at foreign countries and within the UK. We haven't done much worse than other large Western European countries, except Germany, but that was always likely to do better with its decentralised health service and excess ICU capacity. We have done roughly as well as France, Spain and Italy as far as I can see - not particularly better, not much worse.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    MaxPB said:

    Black people celebrate Christmas? How dare they.

    If Sainsbury’s really want to get peoples goat, the white family should be a gay couple
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    Meanwhile, the true believers over at lockdownsceptics believe that:

    - False positives have spiked for some unknown reason, spreading almost like a virus
    - People are turning up at hospital with false positivity about ten days delayed from the spread of false positives
    - People are dying about twenty days after the increased spread in false positives, with the rate of dying continuing to climb and now very visible in excess deaths
    - People diagnosed with these false positives are dying within 28 days at a rate far, far faster than the normal rate of death (if they were dying just at the "normal" rate for someone picked at random dying within 28 days, the population of the UK would halve in a year)

    And, with that amazing series of coincidences, it's actually happening around the world! Almost as if there's a pandemic of a real virus.

    It's happening in Austria as well.
    In Belgium.
    In Croatia.
    In the Czech Republic (my God, is it happening in the Czech Republic!).
    In France.
    In Hungary.
    In Ireland.
    In Italy.
    In the Netherlands, except they seem to have got the false positives under control by pretending they're real and reacting as if they're real.
    In Poland.
    In Portugal.
    In Spain.
    In Slovakia (although they've brought it down by really pretending hard that it's real and testing their entire population and isolating all the false positives and for some reason this has prevented the false positives from spreading)
    In Sweden.

    Over the the US, in Wisconsin, South Dakota, North Dakota, Georgia... all over the place.

    And that's just Europe and the US. My God, how amazingly coincidental it's all been with these false positives magically happening like this?

    Any idea why it is happening in the Czech Rep but not Slovakia?
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The comments on Twitter under this Sainsbury's ad - that has the temerity to show a black family celebrating Christmas - are a sight to behold. I only became aware of it as it was filmed in a house a couple of streets down from me. As others have noted, people had less of a problem with the Asda ad which portrayed a family of carrots.

    https://twitter.com/sainsburys/status/1327506558322880514?s=20

    Holy fck. "Another reason to boycott sainsburys." And people think the idea there is racism in this country is neo-marxist gibberish cooked up by BLM.
    I don’t think it’s a good idea to have an advert for black people, and presumably one for white/another for Asian though do you? Unless they all pop round each other’s houses and party together in the last one (which would infringe social distancing)
    It's not an advert 'for' black people. It's just an advert for people, about Christmas and gravy.
    Why are they doing other adverts featuring other families then, in an effort to reflect diversity?
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited November 2020

    Scott_xP said:
    Now its been pointed out to them it must be a sensitive spot
    I’ve fumbled around for this tweet online but I can’t find it anywhere!!
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited November 2020
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793
    isam said:

    Meanwhile, the true believers over at lockdownsceptics believe that:

    - False positives have spiked for some unknown reason, spreading almost like a virus
    - People are turning up at hospital with false positivity about ten days delayed from the spread of false positives
    - People are dying about twenty days after the increased spread in false positives, with the rate of dying continuing to climb and now very visible in excess deaths
    - People diagnosed with these false positives are dying within 28 days at a rate far, far faster than the normal rate of death (if they were dying just at the "normal" rate for someone picked at random dying within 28 days, the population of the UK would halve in a year)

    And, with that amazing series of coincidences, it's actually happening around the world! Almost as if there's a pandemic of a real virus.

    It's happening in Austria as well.
    In Belgium.
    In Croatia.
    In the Czech Republic (my God, is it happening in the Czech Republic!).
    In France.
    In Hungary.
    In Ireland.
    In Italy.
    In the Netherlands, except they seem to have got the false positives under control by pretending they're real and reacting as if they're real.
    In Poland.
    In Portugal.
    In Spain.
    In Slovakia (although they've brought it down by really pretending hard that it's real and testing their entire population and isolating all the false positives and for some reason this has prevented the false positives from spreading)
    In Sweden.

    Over the the US, in Wisconsin, South Dakota, North Dakota, Georgia... all over the place.

    And that's just Europe and the US. My God, how amazingly coincidental it's all been with these false positives magically happening like this?

    Any idea why it is happening in the Czech Rep but not Slovakia?
    @isam, probably this:

    image

    While we've blethered on about "Moonshot testing", they've actually done it. Tested their entire population over a weekend and enforced isolation on the positives.
    Twice.
    And they're going to do it a third time.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Its Not True. I know that the published regulations say its true. I know that the hauliers and manufacturers and retailers say its true. But Philip says not, so they're all wrong.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    isam said:

    Meanwhile, the true believers over at lockdownsceptics believe that:

    - False positives have spiked for some unknown reason, spreading almost like a virus
    - People are turning up at hospital with false positivity about ten days delayed from the spread of false positives
    - People are dying about twenty days after the increased spread in false positives, with the rate of dying continuing to climb and now very visible in excess deaths
    - People diagnosed with these false positives are dying within 28 days at a rate far, far faster than the normal rate of death (if they were dying just at the "normal" rate for someone picked at random dying within 28 days, the population of the UK would halve in a year)

    And, with that amazing series of coincidences, it's actually happening around the world! Almost as if there's a pandemic of a real virus.

    It's happening in Austria as well.
    In Belgium.
    In Croatia.
    In the Czech Republic (my God, is it happening in the Czech Republic!).
    In France.
    In Hungary.
    In Ireland.
    In Italy.
    In the Netherlands, except they seem to have got the false positives under control by pretending they're real and reacting as if they're real.
    In Poland.
    In Portugal.
    In Spain.
    In Slovakia (although they've brought it down by really pretending hard that it's real and testing their entire population and isolating all the false positives and for some reason this has prevented the false positives from spreading)
    In Sweden.

    Over the the US, in Wisconsin, South Dakota, North Dakota, Georgia... all over the place.

    And that's just Europe and the US. My God, how amazingly coincidental it's all been with these false positives magically happening like this?

    Any idea why it is happening in the Czech Rep but not Slovakia?
    @isam, probably this:

    image

    While we've blethered on about "Moonshot testing", they've actually done it. Tested their entire population over a weekend and enforced isolation on the positives.
    Twice.
    And they're going to do it a third time.
    Is it a similar story still for the Flemish and French speaking Belgians?

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    THIS IS A ZOMBIE THREAD AS OF 0933
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793
    isam said:


    isam said:

    Meanwhile, the true believers over at lockdownsceptics believe that:

    - False positives have spiked for some unknown reason, spreading almost like a virus
    - People are turning up at hospital with false positivity about ten days delayed from the spread of false positives
    - People are dying about twenty days after the increased spread in false positives, with the rate of dying continuing to climb and now very visible in excess deaths
    - People diagnosed with these false positives are dying within 28 days at a rate far, far faster than the normal rate of death (if they were dying just at the "normal" rate for someone picked at random dying within 28 days, the population of the UK would halve in a year)

    And, with that amazing series of coincidences, it's actually happening around the world! Almost as if there's a pandemic of a real virus.

    It's happening in Austria as well.
    In Belgium.
    In Croatia.
    In the Czech Republic (my God, is it happening in the Czech Republic!).
    In France.
    In Hungary.
    In Ireland.
    In Italy.
    In the Netherlands, except they seem to have got the false positives under control by pretending they're real and reacting as if they're real.
    In Poland.
    In Portugal.
    In Spain.
    In Slovakia (although they've brought it down by really pretending hard that it's real and testing their entire population and isolating all the false positives and for some reason this has prevented the false positives from spreading)
    In Sweden.

    Over the the US, in Wisconsin, South Dakota, North Dakota, Georgia... all over the place.

    And that's just Europe and the US. My God, how amazingly coincidental it's all been with these false positives magically happening like this?

    Any idea why it is happening in the Czech Rep but not Slovakia?
    @isam, probably this:

    image

    While we've blethered on about "Moonshot testing", they've actually done it. Tested their entire population over a weekend and enforced isolation on the positives.
    Twice.
    And they're going to do it a third time.
    Is it a similar story still for the Flemish and French speaking Belgians?

    I have no idea. I know Belgium was very badly hit and that they've had to do a lot to bring it under control. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if there were differences in regions (after all, we've had big differences between regions; just compare South West and North West here).

    I was braced for Poland going bad; I had a long chat with my Polish nephew back in June and he told us they were relaxing restrictions way too fast over there and encouraging mixing; he believed the government were courting rapid popularity for an upcoming election and they'd not be able to roll it back afterwards.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    isam said:

    Meanwhile, the true believers over at lockdownsceptics believe that:

    - False positives have spiked for some unknown reason, spreading almost like a virus
    - People are turning up at hospital with false positivity about ten days delayed from the spread of false positives
    - People are dying about twenty days after the increased spread in false positives, with the rate of dying continuing to climb and now very visible in excess deaths
    - People diagnosed with these false positives are dying within 28 days at a rate far, far faster than the normal rate of death (if they were dying just at the "normal" rate for someone picked at random dying within 28 days, the population of the UK would halve in a year)

    And, with that amazing series of coincidences, it's actually happening around the world! Almost as if there's a pandemic of a real virus.

    It's happening in Austria as well.
    In Belgium.
    In Croatia.
    In the Czech Republic (my God, is it happening in the Czech Republic!).
    In France.
    In Hungary.
    In Ireland.
    In Italy.
    In the Netherlands, except they seem to have got the false positives under control by pretending they're real and reacting as if they're real.
    In Poland.
    In Portugal.
    In Spain.
    In Slovakia (although they've brought it down by really pretending hard that it's real and testing their entire population and isolating all the false positives and for some reason this has prevented the false positives from spreading)
    In Sweden.

    Over the the US, in Wisconsin, South Dakota, North Dakota, Georgia... all over the place.

    And that's just Europe and the US. My God, how amazingly coincidental it's all been with these false positives magically happening like this?

    Any idea why it is happening in the Czech Rep but not Slovakia?
    Slovakia are about to enter their 3rd round of mass country wide testing and isolation.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    Incidentally there are no living former Tory MPs for Luton North @justin124

    Not that any former MPs face judgement at election time. Key word is former, second key word is deceased, but even if he was still alive it would be former still.

    Yet Corbyn is very much still alive and more importantly very much still an MP. So instead of whataboutering people who are dead and haven't even been an MP this century how about talking about antisemites of today like the existing Member for Islington North?

    Good to know that such a repulsive being as Carlisle is no longer with us. He was clearly a racist with strong neofascist tendencies. Those who turned a blind eye to such evil are in no position to criticise Corbyn.
    Your continued attempts to divert things to historic issues is both misplaced and pointless, and entirely misconceived. Awful MPs existed, let's focus on ones still sitting.

    And I say that as someone who didn't think enough was provided to allow Starmer to push for Corbyn's expulsion. But despite what you claim it really is neither here nor there what former MPs did.
    Is it unreasonable to expect the current Tory leadership to condemn the likes of Carlisle and Dicks - and the failure of Thatcher and Major to have them removed from the parliamentary party?To this day very few Tories would refuse to criticise Archibald Ramsey - the Tory MP locked up for most of World War 2 on account of his clear Fascist sympathies.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    edited November 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    The comments on Twitter under this Sainsbury's ad - that has the temerity to show a black family celebrating Christmas - are a sight to behold. I only became aware of it as it was filmed in a house a couple of streets down from me. As others have noted, people had less of a problem with the Asda ad which portrayed a family of carrots.

    https://twitter.com/sainsburys/status/1327506558322880514?s=20

    Holy fck. "Another reason to boycott sainsburys." And people think the idea there is racism in this country is neo-marxist gibberish cooked up by BLM.
    Completely baffled by the reactions from the identity politics / sectarian types.

    What do they want? Ban black families from Sainsbury's adverts? Only have families large enough to be a significant sample of the whole population?

    Time to ignore the wibbling and move on.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793
    I just wandered over to Toby young's lockdownsceptics site to see what they're going on about now (sometimes useful to see the latest surge in misinformation before it gets fully out into the wild).

    About two articles apart, we have an article on how terrible precautions are on hospitals with covid and how they're infecting patients... and one on how it's all false positives and hospitals don't have real covid in them.

    And the readers and believers on this stuff don't see the problem of believing both at the same time?

  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    Incidentally there are no living former Tory MPs for Luton North @justin124

    Not that any former MPs face judgement at election time. Key word is former, second key word is deceased, but even if he was still alive it would be former still.

    Yet Corbyn is very much still alive and more importantly very much still an MP. So instead of whataboutering people who are dead and haven't even been an MP this century how about talking about antisemites of today like the existing Member for Islington North?

    Good to know that such a repulsive being as Carlisle is no longer with us. He was clearly a racist with strong neofascist tendencies. Those who turned a blind eye to such evil are in no position to criticise Corbyn.
    Your continued attempts to divert things to historic issues is both misplaced and pointless, and entirely misconceived. Awful MPs existed, let's focus on ones still sitting.

    And I say that as someone who didn't think enough was provided to allow Starmer to push for Corbyn's expulsion. But despite what you claim it really is neither here nor there what former MPs did.
    Is it unreasonable to expect the current Tory leadership to condemn the likes of Carlisle and Dicks - and the failure of Thatcher and Major to have them removed from the parliamentary party?To this day very few Tories would refuse to criticise Archibald Ramsey - the Tory MP locked up for most of World War 2 on account of his clear Fascist sympathies.
    It's a Red Herring.
This discussion has been closed.