I hope I am wrong but I think the enforced mask wearing will make the Covid situation worse in the UK and that in 2 weeks new cases will be over 1000 per day. If face coverings were the solution then the WHO would have recommended them back in March but they didn’t. Countries where face coverings are far more prevalent than the UK are seeing rises in cases now and I fear we will be the same. Social distancing and hand washing have worked in the UK , Deaths are below average and the number of new cases is under control. There is no need for this change and I fear it will have the opposite of the desired effect.
You don't sound like you hope you are wrong.
Of course I hope I’m wrong as if cases go up the government will force mask wearing every time you go outside which is the case in Spain at the moment.
I thought a couple of PBers who actually live in Spain told you you earlier that the rise in infections in Spain were mainly coming from situations where masks were still not worn, ie clusters from nightclubs. Are you ignoring that because it doesn't fit your agenda?
I’ll find some breakdowns tomorrow of where these outbreaks are coming from but off the top of my head
Night bars frequented by young people Family gatherings at home or in restaurants
The first infections in this wave came from meat processing plants.
In Spain you cannot go out without a mask on, if you do you face an instant fine. On the beach when you sunbathe you can remove the mask but as soon as you stand up you must put the mask on, yet cases are on the rise. I might be naive but I don’t see these results as evidence that mask wearing works.
Family gatherings are allowed in the uk now and pubs are open and busy yet without forced mask wearing our new cases are less than Spain.
Don’t count your chickens
I’m not, we will follow Spain’s lead and make mask wearing mandatory and cases will rise
I hope I am wrong but I think the enforced mask wearing will make the Covid situation worse in the UK and that in 2 weeks new cases will be over 1000 per day. If face coverings were the solution then the WHO would have recommended them back in March but they didn’t. Countries where face coverings are far more prevalent than the UK are seeing rises in cases now and I fear we will be the same. Social distancing and hand washing have worked in the UK , Deaths are below average and the number of new cases is under control. There is no need for this change and I fear it will have the opposite of the desired effect.
You don't sound like you hope you are wrong.
Of course I hope I’m wrong as if cases go up the government will force mask wearing every time you go outside which is the case in Spain at the moment.
I thought a couple of PBers who actually live in Spain told you you earlier that the rise in infections in Spain were mainly coming from situations where masks were still not worn, ie clusters from nightclubs. Are you ignoring that because it doesn't fit your agenda?
I’ll find some breakdowns tomorrow of where these outbreaks are coming from but off the top of my head
Night bars frequented by young people Family gatherings at home or in restaurants
The first infections in this wave came from meat processing plants.
In Spain you cannot go out without a mask on, if you do you face an instant fine. On the beach when you sunbathe you can remove the mask but as soon as you stand up you must put the mask on, yet cases are on the rise. I might be naive but I don’t see these results as evidence that mask wearing works.
Family gatherings are allowed in the uk now and pubs are open and busy yet without forced mask wearing our new cases are less than Spain.
Don’t count your chickens
I’m not, we will follow Spain’s lead and make mask wearing mandatory and cases will rise
If mask wearing wasn't effective at preventing the spread disease, then surgeons wouldn't bother wearing them.
Nice comment! Masks are now mandatory in Spain and news cases doubled today to 2600. How is that evidence that wearing masks works. Surgeons wear a face fitted mask which is completely different to masks the public wears. It’s like saying wearing sunglasses is the same as wearing a welders mask.
But cases haven't risen because people are now required to wear masks - dear god, it's like banging your head against a brick wall.
I hope I am wrong but I think the enforced mask wearing will make the Covid situation worse in the UK and that in 2 weeks new cases will be over 1000 per day. If face coverings were the solution then the WHO would have recommended them back in March but they didn’t. Countries where face coverings are far more prevalent than the UK are seeing rises in cases now and I fear we will be the same. Social distancing and hand washing have worked in the UK , Deaths are below average and the number of new cases is under control. There is no need for this change and I fear it will have the opposite of the desired effect.
How on earth is more people covering their faces going to make matters worse?
Cases will rise, there will be further lockdowns but it won't be the fault of mask wearers it will more likely be the fault of those Brits who are too bloody minded/selfish/ ignorant/idle to bother taking the minimal precautions.
We have bought the situation under control without masks. I have watched people who have worn masks over the past few weeks. They never stop touching their face and they forget about social distancing as they feel protected by the mask. If they worked then the WHO would have always recommended them.
Don't forget that the WHO is a shill for the evil Chinese. They tried to keep people from wearing masks to help spread the Chinavirus.
Given the fact that the UK has brought the situation under control, though, that's kind of irrelevant, isn't it? Now that the Chinese sniffle hoax has died out, it doesn't really matter anymore whether people touch their useless, ineffective masks, or forget to socially distance, right?
But, just in the unlikely case the control isn't yet up to 100%, what would you recommend to keep the UK population safe? Will it be enough to punish those silly mask wearers with heavy fines, or do the fools need to be thrown in jail?
Good. One of the generally splendid SKS's misjudgements was to be photographed doing the knee thing and looking a prat. Interesting that most people don't care for it.
I don't discount the worth of gestures on occasion. Sometimes you need to make a gesture. But given people claim they want actions and not just gestures, I do find the emphasis on gestures to be a bit much sometimes, like Hamilton berating and lecturing F1 drivers for not doing what he wants, when I would have thought after an initial gesture which many did participate in, how long do they need to keep doing gestures when the important aspect is not the gesture?
I must confess I was beginning to wonder. As the Rasmussen crosstabs are behind a paywall (as are the Trafalgar ones), I simply don't know how their sampling is different from other pollsters but the current +2 lead for Biden sticks out like an outlier (as does the +15 lead from Quinnipiac).
The latter has now produced a +13 lead for Biden in Florida (51-38) while St Pete Polls has Biden ahead 50-44.
We also had the Hill/Harris X poll last evening - Biden leads 45-38 in that. The regional split has Biden up 45-39 in the North East which seems remarkably good for Trump and 45-38 in the Midwest which seems remarkably good for Biden. Biden up 50-32 in the West and 42-41 in the South.
Biden leads 47-37 among White voters (really?). Among men Biden leads 44-42 (really again?) and among women by 47-34.
Not at all convinced by this poll to be honest.
Should be pointed out in 2016 Rasmussen were the only pollster to correctly have a Hillary popular vote lead of 2% and Trafalgar group were the only pollster to have Trump ahead in Pennsylvania and Michigan
A quick scan of this shows that statement on Rasmussen to be fake news...
A fair few pollsters showed a 2% lead for Clinton in the run-up to the 2016 election. Most others showed leads for which the actual result fell within the MOE.
EDIT: Also, Rasmussen published 4 polls in the last week before the election showing Clinton +2%, Tied, Trump +3, and Tied.
That link shows clearly no pollster other than Rasmussen had Clinton ahead by 2% in November 2016, the month of the election.
It is your final poll that really counts
Wrong again:
McClatchy/Marist November 1–3, 46% - 44% Google Consumer Surveys November 1–7, 38% - 36% Fox News November 1–3, 45% - 43%
Fox News final had Clinton up by 1% on 1st to 3rd November and by 4% in its final poll from 4th to 6th November.
Google Consumer Surveys was not on the link you sent and miles out in terms of actual voteshare.
I give you McClatchy Marist which was the only other pollster therefore comparable to Rasmussen in accuracy of its final poll
The Google Survey is the first entry in the three-way race section
You should know better than to be arguing the toss over those that got 2% versus those that showed 3% or 1% Clinton leads; they all had MOEs of 2-4% (aprart from the Google Survey, funnily enough).
The difference in the last four Rasmussen polls in the week before the election says nothing about the changing mood of the electorate or the refinement of their polling accuracy; it was all a reflection of MOE.
Rasmussen was clearly in the two or three most accturate pollsters in 2016 and was also pretty accurate in 2004 and 2008 too. It overestimated Romney in 2012 due to higher than expected black turnout but other than that its results should be taken seriously
At least he lived long enough to see his Brexit dream realised.
To what end though? His dream (and the dream on many of his generation) is effectively being inflicted on the youth of this country.
The youth have no more right to have their way than any other age group. Not least because all the evidence is that as they get older they change their views - some might even say they grow up. Let them spend 30 years or more doing something of value and contributing to the country and then they can shout about having their way. By which time the chances are they will have changed their minds.
Nothing whatever prevents the youth, or anyone else, organising and campaigning to join the EU. It just requires the patient use of the democratic and parliamentary process. and it is more worthwhile than complaining about the people who have successfully campaigned for Brexit. Perhaps they should learn from them.
Nicola Sturgeon knows that votes and decisions can be reversed. I don't agree with her but she knows how to fight.
The problem is that we had the optimal membership arrangement with the EU - forged by decades of great British statesmanship and endeavour. That will never be available to us again, sacrificed as it was at the alter of Boris Johnson's career. The young have every right to feel helpless and doomed.
Hahahahahahaha. I thought for a minute you were being serious.
And whilst I am at it did the collapse of the Soviet Empire come from: (a) The inability of a command economy to compete with an innovative free market economy; (b) the pressure applied by Reagan's increase in the conventional capability of the US; (c) a combination of (a) and (b) or (d) Amnesty International's campaigns about prisoners of conscience?
The idea that the Chinese will be influenced by similar protests is almost funny, in a sad kind of way.
In the case of the Warsaw Pact it was a combination all 4. Read Timothy Garton Ash, for instance, or Havel to know that Western protests and help to dissidents did play a part, a small one, but a part anyway.
Good. One of the generally splendid SKS's misjudgements was to be photographed doing the knee thing and looking a prat. Interesting that most people don't care for it.
I don't discount the worth of gestures on occasion. Sometimes you need to make a gesture. But given people claim they want actions and not just gestures, I do find the emphasis on gestures to be a bit much sometimes, like Hamilton berating and lecturing F1 drivers for not doing what he wants, when I would have thought after an initial gesture which many did participate in, how long do they need to keep doing gestures when the important aspect is not the gesture?
I think Hamilton seriously misjudged this.
Industrial-scale tax dodgers based in Monaco are not well-placed to be self-appointed moral icons.
Good. One of the generally splendid SKS's misjudgements was to be photographed doing the knee thing and looking a prat. Interesting that most people don't care for it.
I don't discount the worth of gestures on occasion. Sometimes you need to make a gesture. But given people claim they want actions and not just gestures, I do find the emphasis on gestures to be a bit much sometimes, like Hamilton berating and lecturing F1 drivers for not doing what he wants, when I would have thought after an initial gesture which many did participate in, how long do they need to keep doing gestures when the important aspect is not the gesture?
I think Hamilton seriously misjudged this.
Industrial-scale tax dodgers based in Monaco are not well-placed to be self-appointed moral icons.
I don't begrudge him making a big deal of it or attempting to sway others who may be influenced by him in his field. But his words at the last race came across as so arrogant and, depite his protestations, all about him, at the thought that other drivers, for whatever reason, would not do as he wanted.
And whilst I am at it did the collapse of the Soviet Empire come from: (a) The inability of a command economy to compete with an innovative free market economy; (b) the pressure applied by Reagan's increase in the conventional capability of the US; (c) a combination of (a) and (b) or (d) Amnesty International's campaigns about prisoners of conscience?
The idea that the Chinese will be influenced by similar protests is almost funny, in a sad kind of way.
In the case of the Warsaw Pact it was a combination all 4. Read Timothy Garton Ash, for instance, or Havel to know that Western protests and help to dissidents did play a part, a small one, but a part anyway.
Indeed. But I was wondering if he was going to have a Cabinet meeting in a (reportedly) pseudonymously booked parish kirk hall in the midst of a wood in the more remote parts of Aberdeenshire, like Mrs May did.
Tbf Banchory is probably one of the least remote parts of Aberdeenshire.
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Given the fact that the UK has brought the situation under control, though, that's kind of irrelevant, isn't it?
Now that the Chinese sniffle hoax has died out, it doesn't really matter anymore whether people touch their useless, ineffective masks, or forget to socially distance, right?
But, just in the unlikely case the control isn't yet up to 100%, what would you recommend to keep the UK population safe?
Will it be enough to punish those silly mask wearers with heavy fines, or do the fools need to be thrown in jail?
Had one the other day.
Not just a ham 'n' pineapple pizza. An ALDI ham 'n' pineapple pizza.
Yum.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/20/progressives-china-cold-warriors-rightwing-uighurs
Industrial-scale tax dodgers based in Monaco are not well-placed to be self-appointed moral icons.