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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Davey moves to a 65% chance on Betfair for the LD leadership

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited July 2020 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Davey moves to a 65% chance on Betfair for the LD leadership

Ed Davey, the only Lib Dem cabinet minister from the 2010-2015 coalition still to be be an MP has now edged up to a 65% chance on the Betfair exchange on the election to choose the successor to Jo Swinson who, of course lost her to the SNP at GE2019.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited July 2020
    First, like Davey?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    fpt for David L


    Early Docklands was something else.

    They made a city out of nothing, It was utter wasteland. Now:

    https://www.luxurylifestylemag.co.uk/travel/canary-wharf-what-to-do-eat-and-drink-and-where-to-stay-in-londons-bustling-business-district/

    it's like Singapore.

    This is why I pray that London survives the virus. Yes it gets too much money and too much attention. It is annoying. It's inhabitants vex and kvetch. Fuck bloody London.

    And yet, in my lifetime, amazing regeneration has been done here, and, more to the point, this has generated enormous sums of money for the whole country
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    Only seeing two comments, where is everybody?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Methinks PB has been hacked, possibly by itself?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Has PB escaped the great Cloudfare outage ?
    Discord entirely down at the moment.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Methinks PB has been hacked, possibly by itself?

    I’m deeply offended that you think I could be a NorCal man, @SeaShantyIrish2
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Seems to be some trouble with Internet this evening.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    OT - Leaving aside personal, political, ideological, factional distinctions & divisions within LibDem-dom, is it possible that Moran is trailing in part because Me Too has been somewhat overshadowed recently by Black Lives Matter?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Linking back to the previous thread, whatever this pair advocate, Labour should say the opposite.

    Let the LibDems be the party of Waitrose. Labour should be the party of Lidl
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Pulpstar said:

    Has PB escaped the great Cloudfare outage ?
    Discord entirely down at the moment.

    Quite a few sites down
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Charles said:

    Methinks PB has been hacked, possibly by itself?

    I’m deeply offended that you think I could be a NorCal man, @SeaShantyIrish2
    Thought you said it was a fav of yours - maybe I got it mixed up with "Roll Out the Barrel"?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Will he be able to get back from Almeira to pick it up?

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1284229376687702018?s=20

    Not for services to geography anyway.

    'According to the New Statesman in 2015, "Botham is an old-fashioned Englishman, he is conservative with a small and upper-case C" and "a robust monarchist". Botham is a staunch supporter of Britain's withdrawal from the European Union. He was quoted: "Personally, I think that England is an island. I think that England should be England. And I think that we should keep that."'
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Methinks PB has been hacked, possibly by itself?

    Other arms reach out to me
    Other eyes smile tenderly
    Still in peaceful dreams I see
    The road leads back to you
    Georgia, Georgia, no peace I find
    Just an old sweet song keeps Georgia on my mind

    Methinks PB has been hacked, possibly by itself?

  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    France records (836) it's most new cases in nearly a month

    Hmm
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    No future for LD's on the soft centre left. Starmer's parked there.
    Their fight is with the Tories. That is not an ideological point, but a purely psephological one.
    Attacking this government on sound money, liberal values, internatiomalism, free trade and good governance could win sufficient votes in productive places.
    The future's Orange (book).
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    LadyG said:

    fpt for David L


    Early Docklands was something else.

    They made a city out of nothing, It was utter wasteland. Now:

    https://www.luxurylifestylemag.co.uk/travel/canary-wharf-what-to-do-eat-and-drink-and-where-to-stay-in-londons-bustling-business-district/

    it's like Singapore.

    This is why I pray that London survives the virus. Yes it gets too much money and too much attention. It is annoying. It's inhabitants vex and kvetch. Fuck bloody London.

    And yet, in my lifetime, amazing regeneration has been done here, and, more to the point, this has generated enormous sums of money for the whole country

    One of my favorite things to do in London, is take the Dockland Light Rail out to Isle of Dogs & then walk via the foot tunnel to Greenwich. Wander around, have a beer, grab some lunch, and catch a boat up the Thames.

    First part futuristic, a bit like "The Jetsons" then down a long hole and up into a park/museum, then crowded little streets and finally a fun boat ride on liquid history.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Tim_B said:

    Methinks PB has been hacked, possibly by itself?

    Other arms reach out to me
    Other eyes smile tenderly
    Still in peaceful dreams I see
    The road leads back to you
    Georgia, Georgia, no peace I find
    Just an old sweet song keeps Georgia on my mind

    Methinks PB has been hacked, possibly by itself?

    Just saw a youtube of Ray Charles singing & playing that old sweet song.

    For all her faults, Georgia remains a powerful, inspirational muse.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited July 2020
    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    edited July 2020
    LadyG said:

    fpt for David L


    Early Docklands was something else.

    They made a city out of nothing, It was utter wasteland. Now:

    https://www.luxurylifestylemag.co.uk/travel/canary-wharf-what-to-do-eat-and-drink-and-where-to-stay-in-londons-bustling-business-district/

    it's like Singapore.

    This is why I pray that London survives the virus. Yes it gets too much money and too much attention. It is annoying. It's inhabitants vex and kvetch. Fuck bloody London.

    And yet, in my lifetime, amazing regeneration has been done here, and, more to the point, this has generated enormous sums of money for the whole country

    "Regeneration" - putting up characterless glass and steel boxes and overpriced chain restaurants and bars? Sure it's good for employment and tax revenue but it's not amazing regeneration, which involves building well-planned and balanced communities.

    Still, it's better than what was there before.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    Will he be able to get back from Almeira to pick it up?

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1284229376687702018?s=20

    Not for services to geography anyway.

    'According to the New Statesman in 2015, "Botham is an old-fashioned Englishman, he is conservative with a small and upper-case C" and "a robust monarchist". Botham is a staunch supporter of Britain's withdrawal from the European Union. He was quoted: "Personally, I think that England is an island. I think that England should be England. And I think that we should keep that."'

    Yes. And the worry that England should be Mongolia or Kazakhstan keeps me up at night too.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060

    Will he be able to get back from Almeira to pick it up?

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1284229376687702018?s=20

    Not for services to geography anyway.

    'According to the New Statesman in 2015, "Botham is an old-fashioned Englishman, he is conservative with a small and upper-case C" and "a robust monarchist". Botham is a staunch supporter of Britain's withdrawal from the European Union. He was quoted: "Personally, I think that England is an island. I think that England should be England. And I think that we should keep that."'

    Being an super duper proud Remoaner, and an England cricket fan, is so difficult these days.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    LadyG said:

    fpt for David L


    Early Docklands was something else.

    They made a city out of nothing, It was utter wasteland. Now:

    https://www.luxurylifestylemag.co.uk/travel/canary-wharf-what-to-do-eat-and-drink-and-where-to-stay-in-londons-bustling-business-district/

    it's like Singapore.

    This is why I pray that London survives the virus. Yes it gets too much money and too much attention. It is annoying. It's inhabitants vex and kvetch. Fuck bloody London.

    And yet, in my lifetime, amazing regeneration has been done here, and, more to the point, this has generated enormous sums of money for the whole country

    I'm not convinced that having a capital city which dominates the country to the extent London does is a good thing. In fact I think it's a bad thing. But I came here at 17 many moons ago and have lived nowhere else in the UK since that time. I cannot imagine doing so. I may not be Ray Winstone but it's my town.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    Imperial. 4 As.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    LadyG said:

    fpt for David L


    Early Docklands was something else.

    They made a city out of nothing, It was utter wasteland. Now:

    https://www.luxurylifestylemag.co.uk/travel/canary-wharf-what-to-do-eat-and-drink-and-where-to-stay-in-londons-bustling-business-district/

    it's like Singapore.

    This is why I pray that London survives the virus. Yes it gets too much money and too much attention. It is annoying. It's inhabitants vex and kvetch. Fuck bloody London.

    And yet, in my lifetime, amazing regeneration has been done here, and, more to the point, this has generated enormous sums of money for the whole country

    It has indeed. However, for too long this money has been 're invested in London, in the hope of generating more money to 're invest in London.
    Like some crazy Ponzi tulip scheme.
    Eventually the music had to stop. Maybe it was fading out anyways. But CV 19 has unplugged and impounded the sound system for a while perhaps.
    Rave over. Go home and come down.
    And maybe that is no bad thing.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    Imperial. 4 As.
    Well done. Thatcher didn't hold you back I'm glad to see.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    'According to the New Statesman in 2015, "Botham is an old-fashioned Englishman, he is conservative with a small and upper-case C" and "a robust monarchist". Botham is a staunch supporter of Britain's withdrawal from the European Union. He was quoted: "Personally, I think that England is an island. I think that England should be England. And I think that we should keep that."'

    He also has a rather sweet notion that our most important trading relationships should be with the countries we play at Cricket (apart from Pakistan).

    Still, Headingley 81. This buys him much slack.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,595
    edited July 2020
    This is a fascinating video showing a ride on the Docklands Light Railway in 1988, about a year after it opened. You can see cranes where Canary Wharf is about to appear.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP1DADTYq98
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    fpt for David L


    Early Docklands was something else.

    They made a city out of nothing, It was utter wasteland. Now:

    https://www.luxurylifestylemag.co.uk/travel/canary-wharf-what-to-do-eat-and-drink-and-where-to-stay-in-londons-bustling-business-district/

    it's like Singapore.

    This is why I pray that London survives the virus. Yes it gets too much money and too much attention. It is annoying. It's inhabitants vex and kvetch. Fuck bloody London.

    And yet, in my lifetime, amazing regeneration has been done here, and, more to the point, this has generated enormous sums of money for the whole country

    "Regeneration" - putting up characterless glass and steel boxes and overpriced chain restaurants and bars? Sure it's good for employment and tax revenue but it's not amazing regeneration, which involves building well-planned and balanced communities.

    Still, it's better than what was there before.
    Well, er, yeah. What was there before was literally wasteland. Deindustrialised nothingness. Much of it actually poisoned by arsenic and so on. ANYTHING would be better

    I guess they could have built a series of dreary suburban cul de sacs. Identikit Wimpey homes. Would you have preferred that?

    Instead Thatcher went AWOL and POSTAL and thought, NAH, we will create the second biggest financial centre in Europe, after the City of London, and it will be brilliant, and it will gleam, and it will have expensive towers and extraordinary views. Some buildings will suck, some will be great, but overall it will have ENERGY

    And she did it


    https://twitter.com/saintmus_/status/1271835253041135617?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    Imperial. 4 As.
    Well done. Thatcher didn't hold you back I'm glad to see.
    That's what my dad always says when he wants to stop me slagging off Thatcher. He is - to this day - a massive fan. You're sounding like my dad even though you're not even 70.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    All those who could did. We are in our 50s now and at the peak of our wealth and influence. Of course we don't live there anymore.
    Which is why there are left behind towns.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    Imperial. 4 As.
    Well done. Thatcher didn't hold you back I'm glad to see.
    That's what my dad always says when he wants to stop me slagging off Thatcher. He is - to this day - a massive fan. You're sounding like my dad even though you're not even 70.
    A wise man. And a lot older than me and 70.

    You know if you really want and it will help to sort out your internal strife there's nothing to stop you heading back up north to start a community centre or mentoring group or something.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    kinabalu said:

    'According to the New Statesman in 2015, "Botham is an old-fashioned Englishman, he is conservative with a small and upper-case C" and "a robust monarchist". Botham is a staunch supporter of Britain's withdrawal from the European Union. He was quoted: "Personally, I think that England is an island. I think that England should be England. And I think that we should keep that."'

    He also has a rather sweet notion that our most important trading relationships should be with the countries we play at Cricket (apart from Pakistan).

    Still, Headingley 81. This buys him much slack.
    Mebbes.
    The thought if him and Lord Digby Jones chortling over the subsidised bevvy does an awful lot of cancelling tho'.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    dixiedean said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    All those who could did. We are in our 50s now and at the peak of our wealth and influence. Of course we don't live there anymore.
    Which is why there are left behind towns.
    Well exactly. And nothing to stop you going back presumably to help out and contribute something?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    OT - Leaving aside personal, political, ideological, factional distinctions & divisions within LibDem-dom, is it possible that Moran is trailing in part because Me Too has been somewhat overshadowed recently by Black Lives Matter?

    Is it cos Ed Davey is black? (Can we still say that? Too late!)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    BBC1 replaying the 2012 London Olympics Opening ceremony now
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    If Davey does win it will be the first time the more Liberal rather than the more Social Democratic of the LD leadership candidates has won since Nick Clegg
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    "Living in the UK is hard...We lived in Yorkshire."
    I think I spotted your error :smiley:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Andy_JS said:

    This is a fascinating video showing a ride on the Docklands Light Railway in 1988, about a year after it opened. You can see cranes where Canary Wharf is about to appear.

    I first worked in Canary Wharf in the early 90s. There was one of everything then. One pub. One wine bar. One cocktail bar. One newsagent. One Italian. One Chinese. Etc. Sorry TWO newsagents. Just a few years later it was MASSIVE. People were even living there. Living in apartments virtually next to the banks they worked in. Imagine WFH where your "H" is right next to the enormous empty tower you used to go to. You'd feel a bit odd.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    dixiedean said:

    No future for LD's on the soft centre left. Starmer's parked there.
    Their fight is with the Tories. That is not an ideological point, but a purely psephological one.
    Attacking this government on sound money, liberal values, internatiomalism, free trade and good governance could win sufficient votes in productive places.
    The future's Orange (book).

    Indeed, for the LDs the future is wealthy Home Counties and west London, Esher and Walton, Richmond Park, Oxford West and Abingdon, Wokingham, Cities of London and Westminster etc.

    Reaching voters Labour cannot, even with Starmer

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    All those who could did. We are in our 50s now and at the peak of our wealth and influence. Of course we don't live there anymore.
    Which is why there are left behind towns.
    Well exactly. And nothing to stop you going back presumably to help out and contribute something?
    I have. To a certain extent. It was a Royal We. A generality of a we.
    Maybe if all the exiled Northerners DID move back as WFH becomes the trend it would do more for levelling up than 20 years of Boris bluster and bollocks.
    It's certainly cheaper, and more aesthetically pleasing.
    And much more like home.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    'According to the New Statesman in 2015, "Botham is an old-fashioned Englishman, he is conservative with a small and upper-case C" and "a robust monarchist". Botham is a staunch supporter of Britain's withdrawal from the European Union. He was quoted: "Personally, I think that England is an island. I think that England should be England. And I think that we should keep that."'

    He also has a rather sweet notion that our most important trading relationships should be with the countries we play at Cricket (apart from Pakistan).

    Still, Headingley 81. This buys him much slack.
    Mebbes.
    The thought if him and Lord Digby Jones chortling over the subsidised bevvy does an awful lot of cancelling tho'.
    Digby Jones has NO slack. Ghastly man. Bet he says "damn blacks".
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited July 2020
    dixiedean said:

    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    All those who could did. We are in our 50s now and at the peak of our wealth and influence. Of course we don't live there anymore.
    Which is why there are left behind towns.
    Well exactly. And nothing to stop you going back presumably to help out and contribute something?
    I have. To a certain extent. It was a Royal We. A generality of a we.
    Maybe if all the exiled Northerners DID move back as WFH becomes the trend it would do more for levelling up than 20 years of Boris bluster and bollocks.
    It's certainly cheaper, and more aesthetically pleasing.
    And much more like home.
    Absolutely.

    Just that I find it curious that some on here never seem to forgive themselves for the fact that they have done well and "escaped" which seems to manifest itself as a hatred of the circumstances which allowed them to make good in the first place.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    Imperial. 4 As.
    Well done. Thatcher didn't hold you back I'm glad to see.
    That's what my dad always says when he wants to stop me slagging off Thatcher. He is - to this day - a massive fan. You're sounding like my dad even though you're not even 70.
    A wise man. And a lot older than me and 70.

    You know if you really want and it will help to sort out your internal strife there's nothing to stop you heading back up north to start a community centre or mentoring group or something.
    I want to teach literacy and numeracy in prisons. This is what my idealized self is doing at the moment.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    Yes. The houses along Richmond Park are mind boggling given that they are moments (-ish) from Central London.

    But look at us. Like a 90s dinner party talking about London property prices.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Bought a house in Yorkshire in 1998 in the golden triangle. Paid 150k pounds. Sold 7 years later for 370k pounds. No complaint on that. Parking was always a problem when going out. Health care was a night mare. If I need an xray I didn't expect to have to book it in advance, just walk in. Ditto within 24 hours for a CT scan or get a specialist appointment within a week or so. When I moved from Harrogate to a village nearby I was told I had to change my doctor. Why? My doctor is my choice. It was an expensive place to live, and we had gone native years earlier. It was very sad. Hotel and restaurant prices were ludicrous.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    Imperial. 4 As.
    Well done. Thatcher didn't hold you back I'm glad to see.
    That's what my dad always says when he wants to stop me slagging off Thatcher. He is - to this day - a massive fan. You're sounding like my dad even though you're not even 70.
    A wise man. And a lot older than me and 70.

    You know if you really want and it will help to sort out your internal strife there's nothing to stop you heading back up north to start a community centre or mentoring group or something.
    I want to teach literacy and numeracy in prisons. This is what my idealized self is doing at the moment.
    Good for you but unless you do it you won't do it.

    A friend of mine who is now a well known (again, -ish) boxing pundit and ex-boxer tells me he spent all his time in prison helping inmates to write letters home.

    Didn't Jonathan Aitken do the same thing?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Bought a house in Yorkshire in 1998 in the golden triangle. Paid 150k pounds. Sold 7 years later for 370k pounds. No complaint on that. Parking was always a problem when going out. Health care was a night mare. If I need an xray I didn't expect to have to book it in advance, just walk in. Ditto within 24 hours for a CT scan or get a specialist appointment within a week or so. When I moved from Harrogate to a village nearby I was told I had to change my doctor. Why? My doctor is my choice. It was an expensive place to live, and we had gone native years earlier. It was very sad. Hotel and restaurant prices were ludicrous.
    Sounds like you made the right decision.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited July 2020
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    Imperial. 4 As.
    Well done. Thatcher didn't hold you back I'm glad to see.
    That's what my dad always says when he wants to stop me slagging off Thatcher. He is - to this day - a massive fan. You're sounding like my dad even though you're not even 70.
    A wise man. And a lot older than me and 70.

    You know if you really want and it will help to sort out your internal strife there's nothing to stop you heading back up north to start a community centre or mentoring group or something.
    I want to teach literacy and numeracy in prisons. This is what my idealized self is doing at the moment.
    Thing is, before I go to bed, and I know you don't like hearing it, but you are the archetypal Thatcher poster boy.

    Northern working class lad got on his bike made good. And you can't seem to forgive anyone including yourself for that fact.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    TOPPING said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    Yes. The houses along Richmond Park are mind boggling given that they are moments (-ish) from Central London.

    But look at us. Like a 90s dinner party talking about London property prices.
    Mick Jagger is not a stupid man. He is worth about £300m. He could live anywhere on earth: the Riviera, Malibu, Manhattan, the Maldives

    Quite sensibly, he chose Richmond upon Thames. He was always the shrewdest of the Stones.

    This was his previous Richmond house

    https://richmonduponthamesnotables.tumblr.com/post/49717712290/downe-house116-richmond-hillrichmondrichmond

    I believe he quietly lives nearby, now
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    Imperial. 4 As.
    Well done. Thatcher didn't hold you back I'm glad to see.
    That's what my dad always says when he wants to stop me slagging off Thatcher. He is - to this day - a massive fan. You're sounding like my dad even though you're not even 70.
    A wise man. And a lot older than me and 70.

    You know if you really want and it will help to sort out your internal strife there's nothing to stop you heading back up north to start a community centre or mentoring group or something.
    I want to teach literacy and numeracy in prisons. This is what my idealized self is doing at the moment.
    Jesus no!
    Don t do it. It is a wholly admirable and righteous intention. My father did it. And as an Adult Education professional many of my friends and colleagues did.
    Someone has to.
    But it doesn't have to be you.
    They had some stories. My Dad was a never ending source of ways you could be burgled, assaulted, defrauded, have your car nicked.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    Yes. The houses along Richmond Park are mind boggling given that they are moments (-ish) from Central London.

    But look at us. Like a 90s dinner party talking about London property prices.
    Mick Jagger is not a stupid man. He is worth about £300m. He could live anywhere on earth: the Riviera, Malibu, Manhattan, the Maldives

    Quite sensibly, he chose Richmond upon Thames. He was always the shrewdest of the Stones.

    This was his previous Richmond house

    https://richmonduponthamesnotables.tumblr.com/post/49717712290/downe-house116-richmond-hillrichmondrichmond

    I believe he quietly lives nearby, now
    Compared with some of the houses near Sheen Gate that is positively bijou.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    HYUFD said:

    BBC1 replaying the 2012 London Olympics Opening ceremony now

    The opening act was by far the best bit (great Underworld soundtrack), the rest was so so.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Glorious day down here today.

    And another one perhaps tomorrow.

    The South East of England has a massively climatic advantage over the North.

    It’s a different country.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    All those who could did. We are in our 50s now and at the peak of our wealth and influence. Of course we don't live there anymore.
    Which is why there are left behind towns.
    Well exactly. And nothing to stop you going back presumably to help out and contribute something?
    I have. To a certain extent. It was a Royal We. A generality of a we.
    Maybe if all the exiled Northerners DID move back as WFH becomes the trend it would do more for levelling up than 20 years of Boris bluster and bollocks.
    It's certainly cheaper, and more aesthetically pleasing.
    And much more like home.
    Absolutely.

    Just that I find it curious that some on here never seem to forgive themselves for the fact that they have done well and "escaped" which seems to manifest itself as a hatred of the circumstances which allowed them to make good in the first place.
    Maybe it is regret at having to have had to escape in the first place?
    That decent employment near ones friends and family simply weren't available?
    I loved my time in London. And Thatcher was great for the wider South. But I would have been happier never having had to leave.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    The constant emphasis on "parking" is quite revealing. In a world of Uber, and, soon, self driving cars, you won't need a bloody car, and we can get rid of their pollution. This will be a wonderful moment.

    Also, to be brutal, a US lifestyle no longer looks that appealing, to a lot people outside America.

    You have a poisonous racial divide (which you are trying to export: thanks), you have uniquely terrible gun violence, you live evidently shorter lives, your health system is utterly insane, and shit, you have worse poverty than anywhere in western Europe, you are led by a lunatic, about to be supplanted by a demented old man. And your precious role as world economic superpower is about to be toppled by China.

    Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon.

    But its best days are gone and I see much evidence of rampant decay, from homelessness to opioids.

    This was really brought home to me on my last trip there, when I toured all around. I went to small towns where Italians, Germans, Koreans, Irish, English, Norwegians had once emigrated to, with much hope for a better life.

    And I thought, would they still come? No, they would not. They would be better off at home, where life is superior, the food is better, the urbanity is kinder and they are less likely to be shot dead.

    For much of the world, the American dream is over.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Glorious day down here today.

    And another one perhaps tomorrow.

    The South East of England has a massively climatic advantage over the North.

    It’s a different country.

    It's slightly warmer, yes. Hardly massive, compared to here in Georgia, where every day is about 35 degrees C at this time of year. No damp and dismal rain and drizzle. When it rains here it mainly thunders for a few minutes then dries rapidly. But nothing compares to the beauty of Yorkshire, for me at any rate.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    Imperial. 4 As.
    Well done. Thatcher didn't hold you back I'm glad to see.
    That's what my dad always says when he wants to stop me slagging off Thatcher. He is - to this day - a massive fan. You're sounding like my dad even though you're not even 70.
    A wise man. And a lot older than me and 70.

    You know if you really want and it will help to sort out your internal strife there's nothing to stop you heading back up north to start a community centre or mentoring group or something.
    I want to teach literacy and numeracy in prisons. This is what my idealized self is doing at the moment.
    Jesus no!
    Don t do it. It is a wholly admirable and righteous intention. My father did it. And as an Adult Education professional many of my friends and colleagues did.
    Someone has to.
    But it doesn't have to be you.
    They had some stories. My Dad was a never ending source of ways you could be burgled, assaulted, defrauded, have your car nicked.
    lol - ok.

    What put me off last time I had the urge - couple of years ago - was you had to do a year's full on training including a school placement. I got the place but pulled out due to a blinding flash of insight that I would not get through it.

    Guess I'll just stay with the betting.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Hmm. Atlanta or Richmond?

    Now let me think.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    edited July 2020
    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    edited July 2020

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Hmm. Atlanta or Richmond?

    Now let me think.
    Blanche Devereuux or Mick Jagger
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Tim_B said:

    Glorious day down here today.

    And another one perhaps tomorrow.

    The South East of England has a massively climatic advantage over the North.

    It’s a different country.

    It's slightly warmer, yes. Hardly massive, compared to here in Georgia, where every day is about 35 degrees C at this time of year. No damp and dismal rain and drizzle. When it rains here it mainly thunders for a few minutes then dries rapidly. But nothing compares to the beauty of Yorkshire, for me at any rate.
    I have clients who left Georgia because they couldn’t bear the summers there. Just way too hot and oppressive and no escape from it unless you fancy sitting inside in aircon hell for hours on end.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    And you have two weeks holiday a year, unlike Europeans with 4, 5, 6

    Life in America is now, on average WORSE

    This is a huge turnaround. And it is epochal. America has fucked up
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    Provided they don't get sick of course and have to pay exorbitant health insurance premiums
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    LadyG said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    The constant emphasis on "parking" is quite revealing. In a world of Uber, and, soon, self driving cars, you won't need a bloody car, and we can get rid of their pollution. This will be a wonderful moment.

    Also, to be brutal, a US lifestyle no longer looks that appealing, to a lot people outside America.

    You have a poisonous racial divide (which you are trying to export: thanks), you have uniquely terrible gun violence, you live evidently shorter lives, your health system is utterly insane, and shit, you have worse poverty than anywhere in western Europe, you are led by a lunatic, about to be supplanted by a demented old man. And your precious role as world economic superpower is about to be toppled by China.

    Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon.

    But its best days are gone and I see much evidence of rampant decay, from homelessness to opioids.

    This was really brought home to me on my last trip there, when I toured all around. I went to small towns where Italians, Germans, Koreans, Irish, English, Norwegians had once emigrated to, with much hope for a better life.

    And I thought, would they still come? No, they would not. They would be better off at home, where life is superior, the food is better, the urbanity is kinder and they are less likely to be shot dead.

    For much of the world, the American dream is over.
    Some of that is hyperbole. Much of America is lovely and has a lot to commend it.

    But...

    The centre of Atlanta is a parking lot.

    It actually is.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    LadyG said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    The constant emphasis on "parking" is quite revealing. In a world of Uber, and, soon, self driving cars, you won't need a bloody car, and we can get rid of their pollution. This will be a wonderful moment.

    Also, to be brutal, a US lifestyle no longer looks that appealing, to a lot people outside America.

    You have a poisonous racial divide (which you are trying to export: thanks), you have uniquely terrible gun violence, you live evidently shorter lives, your health system is utterly insane, and shit, you have worse poverty than anywhere in western Europe, you are led by a lunatic, about to be supplanted by a demented old man. And your precious role as world economic superpower is about to be toppled by China.

    Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon.

    But its best days are gone and I see much evidence of rampant decay, from homelessness to opioids.

    This was really brought home to me on my last trip there, when I toured all around. I went to small towns where Italians, Germans, Koreans, Irish, English, Norwegians had once emigrated to, with much hope for a better life.

    And I thought, would they still come? No, they would not. They would be better off at home, where life is superior, the food is better, the urbanity is kinder and they are less likely to be shot dead.

    For much of the world, the American dream is over.
    You are entitled to your opinion. I fell in love with this country as a 15 year old in 1966 when I spent 2 months with a family friend of my father.. Compared to England it was no contest. I don't own a gun and I'm not trying to export racism or anything else. My experience of the US health system is much better than the NHS, but that may vary by individual.

    Your comments about a demented old man, rampant decay, utterly insane and shit health system, etc, say more about you than they do about me or the US.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    LadyG said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    The constant emphasis on "parking" is quite revealing. In a world of Uber, and, soon, self driving cars, you won't need a bloody car, and we can get rid of their pollution. This will be a wonderful moment.

    Also, to be brutal, a US lifestyle no longer looks that appealing, to a lot people outside America.

    You have a poisonous racial divide (which you are trying to export: thanks), you have uniquely terrible gun violence, you live evidently shorter lives, your health system is utterly insane, and shit, you have worse poverty than anywhere in western Europe, you are led by a lunatic, about to be supplanted by a demented old man. And your precious role as world economic superpower is about to be toppled by China.

    Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon.

    But its best days are gone and I see much evidence of rampant decay, from homelessness to opioids.

    This was really brought home to me on my last trip there, when I toured all around. I went to small towns where Italians, Germans, Koreans, Irish, English, Norwegians had once emigrated to, with much hope for a better life.

    And I thought, would they still come? No, they would not. They would be better off at home, where life is superior, the food is better, the urbanity is kinder and they are less likely to be shot dead.

    For much of the world, the American dream is over.
    Some of that is hyperbole. Much of America is lovely and has a lot to commend it.

    But...

    The centre of Atlanta is a parking lot.

    It actually is.
    True enough, but who the hell goes there!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Glorious day down here today.

    And another one perhaps tomorrow.

    The South East of England has a massively climatic advantage over the North.

    It’s a different country.

    It's slightly warmer, yes. Hardly massive, compared to here in Georgia, where every day is about 35 degrees C at this time of year. No damp and dismal rain and drizzle. When it rains here it mainly thunders for a few minutes then dries rapidly. But nothing compares to the beauty of Yorkshire, for me at any rate.
    I have clients who left Georgia because they couldn’t bear the summers there. Just way too hot and oppressive and no escape from it unless you fancy sitting inside in aircon hell for hours on end.
    I like to play golf, and love it here. You just need to get used to it.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    Provided they don't get sick of course and have to pay exorbitant health insurance premiums
    I pay about $200 a month. Prescription costs are tax deductible.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    The constant emphasis on "parking" is quite revealing. In a world of Uber, and, soon, self driving cars, you won't need a bloody car, and we can get rid of their pollution. This will be a wonderful moment.

    Also, to be brutal, a US lifestyle no longer looks that appealing, to a lot people outside America.

    You have a poisonous racial divide (which you are trying to export: thanks), you have uniquely terrible gun violence, you live evidently shorter lives, your health system is utterly insane, and shit, you have worse poverty than anywhere in western Europe, you are led by a lunatic, about to be supplanted by a demented old man. And your precious role as world economic superpower is about to be toppled by China.

    Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon.

    But its best days are gone and I see much evidence of rampant decay, from homelessness to opioids.

    This was really brought home to me on my last trip there, when I toured all around. I went to small towns where Italians, Germans, Koreans, Irish, English, Norwegians had once emigrated to, with much hope for a better life.

    And I thought, would they still come? No, they would not. They would be better off at home, where life is superior, the food is better, the urbanity is kinder and they are less likely to be shot dead.

    For much of the world, the American dream is over.
    You are entitled to your opinion. I fell in love with this country as a 15 year old in 1966 when I spent 2 months with a family friend of my father.. Compared to England it was no contest. I don't own a gun and I'm not trying to export racism or anything else. My experience of the US health system is much better than the NHS, but that may vary by individual.

    Your comments about a demented old man, rampant decay, utterly insane and shit health system, etc, say more about you than they do about me or the US.
    Tim, SeanT is describing some Guardianista overview of the USA. But we don't live in 'big picture' USA, we live in everyday local USA, which has very few of the characteristics Sean describes - big picture stuff has very little impact on daily life. And for white educated males with English accents, well life is pretty good here ...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    Imperial. 4 As.
    Well done. Thatcher didn't hold you back I'm glad to see.
    That's what my dad always says when he wants to stop me slagging off Thatcher. He is - to this day - a massive fan. You're sounding like my dad even though you're not even 70.
    A wise man. And a lot older than me and 70.

    You know if you really want and it will help to sort out your internal strife there's nothing to stop you heading back up north to start a community centre or mentoring group or something.
    I want to teach literacy and numeracy in prisons. This is what my idealized self is doing at the moment.
    Jesus no!
    Don t do it. It is a wholly admirable and righteous intention. My father did it. And as an Adult Education professional many of my friends and colleagues did.
    Someone has to.
    But it doesn't have to be you.
    They had some stories. My Dad was a never ending source of ways you could be burgled, assaulted, defrauded, have your car nicked.
    lol - ok.

    What put me off last time I had the urge - couple of years ago - was you had to do a year's full on training including a school placement. I got the place but pulled out due to a blinding flash of insight that I would not get through it.

    Guess I'll just stay with the betting.
    The training is OK. And the field of adult education opens up some really interesting doors. And skills.
    But prisons is the Hawaii Iron man at the end of an initial intention to get a little fitter.
    Hugely satisfying, with a tremendous sense of achievement if you can stomach it.
    But the vast majority can't.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    A farm is a moo-vable feast :smiley:
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    And you have two weeks holiday a year, unlike Europeans with 4, 5, 6

    Life in America is now, on average WORSE

    This is a huge turnaround. And it is epochal. America has fucked up
    I have about 30 weeks holiday a year, actually. Being self-employed and earning a very decent daily rate, I don't see much point working more.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Tim_B said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    A farm is a moo-vable feast :smiley:
    Where in the US do you live, Tim_B.. if I can ask? I loved it in the South West, I could imagine settling there. Such awesome landscapes.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    The constant emphasis on "parking" is quite revealing. In a world of Uber, and, soon, self driving cars, you won't need a bloody car, and we can get rid of their pollution. This will be a wonderful moment.

    Also, to be brutal, a US lifestyle no longer looks that appealing, to a lot people outside America.

    You have a poisonous racial divide (which you are trying to export: thanks), you have uniquely terrible gun violence, you live evidently shorter lives, your health system is utterly insane, and shit, you have worse poverty than anywhere in western Europe, you are led by a lunatic, about to be supplanted by a demented old man. And your precious role as world economic superpower is about to be toppled by China.

    Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon.

    But its best days are gone and I see much evidence of rampant decay, from homelessness to opioids.

    This was really brought home to me on my last trip there, when I toured all around. I went to small towns where Italians, Germans, Koreans, Irish, English, Norwegians had once emigrated to, with much hope for a better life.

    And I thought, would they still come? No, they would not. They would be better off at home, where life is superior, the food is better, the urbanity is kinder and they are less likely to be shot dead.

    For much of the world, the American dream is over.
    Some of that is hyperbole. Much of America is lovely and has a lot to commend it.

    But...

    The centre of Atlanta is a parking lot.

    It actually is.
    True enough, but who the hell goes there!
    Well exactly.

    QED.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    TimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    The constant emphasis on "parking" is quite revealing. In a world of Uber, and, soon, self driving cars, you won't need a bloody car, and we can get rid of their pollution. This will be a wonderful moment.

    Also, to be brutal, a US lifestyle no longer looks that appealing, to a lot people outside America.

    You have a poisonous racial divide (which you are trying to export: thanks), you have uniquely terrible gun violence, you live evidently shorter lives, your health system is utterly insane, and shit, you have worse poverty than anywhere in western Europe, you are led by a lunatic, about to be supplanted by a demented old man. And your precious role as world economic superpower is about to be toppled by China.

    Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon.

    But its best days are gone and I see much evidence of rampant decay, from homelessness to opioids.

    This was really brought home to me on my last trip there, when I toured all around. I went to small towns where Italians, Germans, Koreans, Irish, English, Norwegians had once emigrated to, with much hope for a better life.

    And I thought, would they still come? No, they would not. They would be better off at home, where life is superior, the food is better, the urbanity is kinder and they are less likely to be shot dead.

    For much of the world, the American dream is over.
    You are entitled to your opinion. I fell in love with this country as a 15 year old in 1966 when I spent 2 months with a family friend of my father.. Compared to England it was no contest. I don't own a gun and I'm not trying to export racism or anything else. My experience of the US health system is much better than the NHS, but that may vary by individual.

    Your comments about a demented old man, rampant decay, utterly insane and shit health system, etc, say more about you than they do about me or the US.
    Tim, SeanT is describing some Guardianista overview of the USA. But we don't live in 'big picture' USA, we live in everyday local USA, which has very few of the characteristics Sean describes - big picture stuff has very little impact on daily life. And for white educated males with English accents, well life is pretty good here ...
    Jolly good show!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Glorious day down here today.

    And another one perhaps tomorrow.

    The South East of England has a massively climatic advantage over the North.

    It’s a different country.

    It's slightly warmer, yes. Hardly massive, compared to here in Georgia, where every day is about 35 degrees C at this time of year. No damp and dismal rain and drizzle. When it rains here it mainly thunders for a few minutes then dries rapidly. But nothing compares to the beauty of Yorkshire, for me at any rate.
    I have clients who left Georgia because they couldn’t bear the summers there. Just way too hot and oppressive and no escape from it unless you fancy sitting inside in aircon hell for hours on end.
    I like to play golf, and love it here. You just need to get used to it.
    My clients were there for eight years, and never got used to the summers. They gave up in the end. Said summers were just miserable.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    The constant emphasis on "parking" is quite revealing. In a world of Uber, and, soon, self driving cars, you won't need a bloody car, and we can get rid of their pollution. This will be a wonderful moment.

    Also, to be brutal, a US lifestyle no longer looks that appealing, to a lot people outside America.

    You have a poisonous racial divide (which you are trying to export: thanks), you have uniquely terrible gun violence, you live evidently shorter lives, your health system is utterly insane, and shit, you have worse poverty than anywhere in western Europe, you are led by a lunatic, about to be supplanted by a demented old man. And your precious role as world economic superpower is about to be toppled by China.

    Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon.

    But its best days are gone and I see much evidence of rampant decay, from homelessness to opioids.

    This was really brought home to me on my last trip there, when I toured all around. I went to small towns where Italians, Germans, Koreans, Irish, English, Norwegians had once emigrated to, with much hope for a better life.

    And I thought, would they still come? No, they would not. They would be better off at home, where life is superior, the food is better, the urbanity is kinder and they are less likely to be shot dead.

    For much of the world, the American dream is over.
    You are entitled to your opinion. I fell in love with this country as a 15 year old in 1966 when I spent 2 months with a family friend of my father.. Compared to England it was no contest. I don't own a gun and I'm not trying to export racism or anything else. My experience of the US health system is much better than the NHS, but that may vary by individual.

    Your comments about a demented old man, rampant decay, utterly insane and shit health system, etc, say more about you than they do about me or the US.
    You deny these old fucks are demented?! Trump?? Biden??

    https://twitter.com/moronsdimwitse1/status/1283178292707823623?s=20

    I do sympathise. If this was 1966 and I were a 15 year old asked to choose between living in grey old drizzly England, sagged with its old imperial regrets, or sunny new moon-landing America, WOW, I would have chosen America OF COURSE

    YAY USA

    But now? No. America is not what it was, It has seriously declined, I fear, in every single way, comparatively, since then. No western European would now willingly go to America without a fecking big salary and major health insurance guaranteed (and even then they tend to come back). This is why you have migrants solely from LatAm and Africa. For them it is still better.

    But you do still have great parking. No doubt about that, American parking rules the world. Heck, you demolished entire, quaint town centres to ensure you had the best PARKING in the world.

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    The constant emphasis on "parking" is quite revealing. In a world of Uber, and, soon, self driving cars, you won't need a bloody car, and we can get rid of their pollution. This will be a wonderful moment.

    Also, to be brutal, a US lifestyle no longer looks that appealing, to a lot people outside America.

    You have a poisonous racial divide (which you are trying to export: thanks), you have uniquely terrible gun violence, you live evidently shorter lives, your health system is utterly insane, and shit, you have worse poverty than anywhere in western Europe, you are led by a lunatic, about to be supplanted by a demented old man. And your precious role as world economic superpower is about to be toppled by China.

    Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon.

    But its best days are gone and I see much evidence of rampant decay, from homelessness to opioids.

    This was really brought home to me on my last trip there, when I toured all around. I went to small towns where Italians, Germans, Koreans, Irish, English, Norwegians had once emigrated to, with much hope for a better life.

    And I thought, would they still come? No, they would not. They would be better off at home, where life is superior, the food is better, the urbanity is kinder and they are less likely to be shot dead.

    For much of the world, the American dream is over.
    Some of that is hyperbole. Much of America is lovely and has a lot to commend it.

    But...

    The centre of Atlanta is a parking lot.

    It actually is.
    True enough, but who the hell goes there!
    Well exactly.

    QED.
    You missed my point. Atlanta - like most US cities other than northeast - is essentially a series of suburbs, each of which contains neighborhoods.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited July 2020
    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    A farm is a moo-vable feast :smiley:
    Where in the US do you live, Tim_B.. if I can ask? I loved it in the South West, I could imagine settling there. Such awesome landscapes.
    North east of Atlanta, almost in the lovely North Georgia mountains. The south west is indeed an awesome landscape.

    Where are you these days?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    TimT said:

    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    And you have two weeks holiday a year, unlike Europeans with 4, 5, 6

    Life in America is now, on average WORSE

    This is a huge turnaround. And it is epochal. America has fucked up
    I have about 30 weeks holiday a year, actually. Being self-employed and earning a very decent daily rate, I don't see much point working more.
    Aaaaaaaaand for the average American versus the average European?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    "Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon."

    Jeez, Lady, if this crap is what you "love" about America, no wonder your appreciation is SO well hidden.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    And you have two weeks holiday a year, unlike Europeans with 4, 5, 6

    Life in America is now, on average WORSE

    This is a huge turnaround. And it is epochal. America has fucked up
    I have about 30 weeks holiday a year, actually. Being self-employed and earning a very decent daily rate, I don't see much point working more.
    Aaaaaaaaand for the average American versus the average European?
    Average household income in US is $62k, average UK is GBP29.6k, so less than $40k
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Atlanta is not very nice but...

    Before I slag it off too much, it should be noted that it is home to The Optimist - probably the best seafood restaurant I’ve ever visited (and one of the best restaurants full stop). A truly great place to eat (and drink).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    A farm is a moo-vable feast :smiley:
    Where in the US do you live, Tim_B.. if I can ask? I loved it in the South West, I could imagine settling there. Such awesome landscapes.
    North east of Atlanta, almost in the lovely North Georgia mountains. The south west is indeed an awesome landscape.

    Where are you these days?
    I lived in Dunwoody for 4 years in the Seventies, while my dad worked for IBM. Without Airton the climate is unbearable. Life is good, unless you are poor. That is true anywhere but particularly acute in America.

    I sometimes regret not staying in Australia, or NZ, particularly Victoria. I like America, but not enough to live there again.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    The constant emphasis on "parking" is quite revealing. In a world of Uber, and, soon, self driving cars, you won't need a bloody car, and we can get rid of their pollution. This will be a wonderful moment.

    Also, to be brutal, a US lifestyle no longer looks that appealing, to a lot people outside America.

    You have a poisonous racial divide (which you are trying to export: thanks), you have uniquely terrible gun violence, you live evidently shorter lives, your health system is utterly insane, and shit, you have worse poverty than anywhere in western Europe, you are led by a lunatic, about to be supplanted by a demented old man. And your precious role as world economic superpower is about to be toppled by China.

    Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is still much to admire about it. eg the dominance of mighty American internet companies, from Facebook to Amazon.

    But its best days are gone and I see much evidence of rampant decay, from homelessness to opioids.

    This was really brought home to me on my last trip there, when I toured all around. I went to small towns where Italians, Germans, Koreans, Irish, English, Norwegians had once emigrated to, with much hope for a better life.

    And I thought, would they still come? No, they would not. They would be better off at home, where life is superior, the food is better, the urbanity is kinder and they are less likely to be shot dead.

    For much of the world, the American dream is over.
    Some of that is hyperbole. Much of America is lovely and has a lot to commend it.

    But...

    The centre of Atlanta is a parking lot.

    It actually is.
    True enough, but who the hell goes there!
    Well exactly.

    QED.
    You missed my point. Atlanta - like most US cities other than northeast - is essentially a series of suburbs, each of which contains neighborhoods.
    Yes, exactly! QED
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    TimT said:

    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    And you have two weeks holiday a year, unlike Europeans with 4, 5, 6

    Life in America is now, on average WORSE

    This is a huge turnaround. And it is epochal. America has fucked up
    I have about 30 weeks holiday a year, actually. Being self-employed and earning a very decent daily rate, I don't see much point working more.
    Aaaaaaaaand for the average American versus the average European?
    Average household income in US is $62k, average UK is GBP29.6k, so less than $40k

    It’s bollocks tho, isn’t it? I toured the Deep South last year. Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama.

    There is poverty there which is literally unimaginable in a civilised Western European country. Endless hamlets of trailer parks which you think are uninhabited, until you see the kids playing outside. No shops, no community, no life, but they live there.

    GO FOR A FUCKING DRIVE. This is your country. You’ll find plenty of parking.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    I'm not a fan of America for some of the reasons Lady G outlines, but I do think Americans are often admirable in a slightly innocent way that we've rather lost sight of - more generous, more optimistic, more innocently keen to do the right thing. It's an interesting question for us atheist lefties whether (if that's true) it's because religion and pioneering spirit are part of what gives that quality?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    edited July 2020
    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    And you have two weeks holiday a year, unlike Europeans with 4, 5, 6

    Life in America is now, on average WORSE

    This is a huge turnaround. And it is epochal. America has fucked up
    I have about 30 weeks holiday a year, actually. Being self-employed and earning a very decent daily rate, I don't see much point working more.
    Aaaaaaaaand for the average American versus the average European?
    Average household income in US is $62k, average UK is GBP29.6k, so less than $40k

    It’s bollocks tho, isn’t it? I toured the Deep South last year. Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama.

    There is poverty there which is literally unimaginable in a civilised Western European country. Endless hamlets of trailer parks which you think are uninhabited, until you see the kids playing outside. No shops, no community, no life, but they live there.

    GO FOR A FUCKING DRIVE. This is your country. You’ll find plenty of parking.
    Indeed, if I was rich and a top lawyer or banker or surgeon I would happily live in America, it is a very nice place to earn and spend lots of money but if you are poor or out of work you are generally far closer to absolute poverty in the USA than in the UK, especially in the South
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Foxy said:

    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    A farm is a moo-vable feast :smiley:
    Where in the US do you live, Tim_B.. if I can ask? I loved it in the South West, I could imagine settling there. Such awesome landscapes.
    North east of Atlanta, almost in the lovely North Georgia mountains. The south west is indeed an awesome landscape.

    Where are you these days?
    I lived in Dunwoody for 4 years in the Seventies, while my dad worked for IBM. Without Airton the climate is unbearable. Life is good, unless you are poor. That is true anywhere but particularly acute in America.

    I sometimes regret not staying in Australia, or NZ, particularly Victoria. I like America, but not enough to live there again.

    I think we've had this conversation before. I worked for IBM here too in the 80s. Atlanta suits me and my family. Life is relatively cheap, the quality is good, and the facilities are great. We love the climate (we used to live in Augusta which is even warmer). A/C is essential and universal. If your A/C fails, it's treated as an emergency. But to each their own.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    I'm not a fan of America for some of the reasons Lady G outlines, but I do think Americans are often admirable in a slightly innocent way that we've rather lost sight of - more generous, more optimistic, more innocently keen to do the right thing. It's an interesting question for us atheist lefties whether (if that's true) it's because religion and pioneering spirit are part of what gives that quality?

    Yes, on average Americans tend to be, on first encounter, nicer - more hospitable, friendly, warmer - than Europeans. I’m not sure why. But it is the case.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    LadyG said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    LadyG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm on Davey at 1.8 and it's a bet I'm confident of. Target 1.33 for possible close out.

    Fpt.

    Life was so shit for Northern working class types during the Tory years.

    But wait. You got out, made good down south. Why didn't everyone else?
    I was born and raised in the north, and moved to London at age 17 in 1968 to join IBM. I lived there for 7 years and hated it in Richmond and Twickenham area. Left there to move back north to get married. In 1978 we gave up on a future in the UK and moved to North America. We so much wanted to try again in the UK, moved back in 1998 with our daughter and eventually gave up and moved back here in 2005. Living in the UK is hard and expensive. We lived in Yorkshire. Where I was from everything from parking to eating out to medical care was so difficult and involved needless delays that we just gave up and came home. Even the price of petrol was nose bleed time.
    I know. It can be tough. But people make their own decisions. You decided to leave the country which is absolutely fair enough.

    But your hell of Richmond and Twickenham will be someone else's idea of heaven on earth. Especially if they bought their house there in 1975.
    Yes, if you own a house or flat (crucial) and have an OK income (you don't need much, if the property is sorted) then Richmond-upon-Thames is one of the nicest places to live, in the entire world.

    And I have seen a lot of the world.

    You have a global city on your doorstep, great natural beauty a walk away, endless enormous parks, lots of history, beautiful world-class architecture. Also bars, restaurants, etc etc

    It's a gorgeous spot. I cannot think of anywhere in America that matches it.

    That's why it is, now, so insanely expensive

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-93335048.html
    It's crowded, parking is difficult, prices are ridiculous - I love the area but living a US lifestyle is impossible there. The housing stock is tiny - I have a 5 bedroom 3 bathroom 2 garage air conditioned home here for $225k. I can think of many places in the US that match it. It all depends on what you want. We wanted US style living. That's unavailable in the UK. Residents parking was a deal killer.
    Though of course higher house prices in the UK mean the average Briton is wealthier than the average American in asset terms, even if the average American earns more than the average Briton in income terms
    Which means the average American has way more in terms of disposable income and assets as so much less is tied up in real estate. Except, of course, of us idiots who have farms.
    And you have two weeks holiday a year, unlike Europeans with 4, 5, 6

    Life in America is now, on average WORSE

    This is a huge turnaround. And it is epochal. America has fucked up
    I have about 30 weeks holiday a year, actually. Being self-employed and earning a very decent daily rate, I don't see much point working more.
    Aaaaaaaaand for the average American versus the average European?
    Average household income in US is $62k, average UK is GBP29.6k, so less than $40k

    It’s bollocks tho, isn’t it? I toured the Deep South last year. Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama.

    There is poverty there which is literally unimaginable in a civilised Western European country. Endless hamlets of trailer parks which you think are uninhabited, until you see the kids playing outside. No shops, no community, no life, but they live there.

    GO FOR A FUCKING DRIVE. This is your country. You’ll find plenty of parking.
    Indeed, if I was rich and a top lawyer or banker or surgeon I would happily live in America, it is a very nice place to earn and spend lots of money but if you are poor or out of work you are generally far closer to absolute poverty in the USA than in the UK, especially in the South
    I couldn’t believe the poverty I saw in the Deep South, last year. It was mind-boggling. Closer to Tunisia or Mexico than anywhere in Europe. Stunning. And it wasn’t an entirely racial thing.

    I know the stats say America is rich. And I guess it is. But wow.

    They need a Blairite social democrat redistributive government for about 20 years, and they need to get rid of the mad gun laws. Otherwise, god knows.

    And on that note, goodnight. And god bless America.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,595
    edited July 2020
    Quality of life for ordinary people in most western countries has declined since the 1990s. Why and how? I never hear politicians talking about this subject.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    edited July 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    Quality of life for ordinary people in most western countries has declined since the 1990s. Why and how? I never hear politicians talking about this subject.

    Globalisation, competition from Asia and transfer of manufacturing jobs outside the west or loss of them through automation coupled with lack of controls of low skilled immigration. Hence Trump, Corbyn and Brexit and the rise of populist movements across the west
This discussion has been closed.