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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As Covid soars to new US peak YouGov polling suggests that Tru

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited July 2020 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As Covid soars to new US peak YouGov polling suggests that Trump is being hurt most amongst those who feel worst affected

New CBS polling in three big sunbelt states that now look to be highly competitive has found that the more voters are concerned about the virus the more they are likely to support Biden.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    Scott_xP said:
    If you haven't read Don Winslow's novels, you should.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good morning, everyone.

    Not impossible, but I'd be surprised if Trump won.

    F1: post-race thoughts up here:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/07/styrian-grand-prix-post-race-analysis.html

    Quite pleased to have both tips come off, one in dramatic fashion.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited July 2020
    'The long-term effects of COVID-19, even on people who suffered a mild infection, could be far worse than was originally anticipated, according to researchers and doctors in northern Italy.

    Psychosis, insomnia, kidney disease, spinal infections, strokes, chronic tiredness and mobility issues are being identified in former coronavirus patients in Lombardy, the worst-affected region in the country.

    The doctors warn that some victims may never recover from the illness and that all age groups are vulnerable.

    The virus is a systemic infection that affects all the organs of the body, not, as was previously thought, just a respiratory disease, they say.'

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-warning-from-italy-effects-of-covid-19-could-be-worse-than-first-thought-12027348
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
    rcs1000 said:

    If you haven't read Don Winslow's novels, you should.

    I have read a number of them :)
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,897
    In a similarly depressing report as the one posted by Mysticrose

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

    "People who have recovered from Covid-19 may lose their immunity to the disease within months, according to research suggesting the virus could reinfect people year after year, like common colds.

    In the first longitudinal study of its kind, scientists analysed the immune response of more than 90 patients and healthcare workers at Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS foundation trust and found levels of antibodies that can destroy the virus peaked about three weeks after the onset of symptoms then swiftly declined."

    ....
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    Not as bright this morning here as the BBC's weather forecast says it ought to be! Nor, quite, as warm!
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
    eristdoof said:

    "People who have recovered from Covid-19 may lose their immunity to the disease within months, according to research suggesting the virus could reinfect people year after year, like common colds.

    https://twitter.com/GideonResnick/status/1282522766533636102
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
    When Nissan close Sunderland, this will be the tagline...

    https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1282552411031310337
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    We must hope the disease mutates to become milder.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,319

    Not as bright this morning here as the BBC's weather forecast says it ought to be! Nor, quite, as warm!

    Oh, they've had a bad run going back some months but it's hard to tell just how bad because they never publish results.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,391
    OT USA Dem Veep slot betting. Over the last few days, Kamala Harris and Susan Rice have drifted as Tammy Duckworth has been backed into third favourite but the main change is the spreads have tightened. Val Demings has lengthened past Elizabeth Warren. Changes are not so dramatic as to indicate Joe Biden himself has opened an account.
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    BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    Not as bright this morning here as the BBC's weather forecast says it ought to be! Nor, quite, as warm!

    Oh, they've had a bad run going back some months but it's hard to tell just how bad because they never publish results.
    yeah, its become an in-joke with my mates as to how ropey the BBC weather app has been.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    We must hope the disease mutates to become milder.

    Why would it bother? The mantra is that overly severe viruses die out because they kill off all the potential hosts. That would be an issue if you were a virus exclusively affecting the snow leopard, but have you noticed how many more people there are than snow leopards? Also, this virus isn't notably lethal, the complaint is that it fucks you up but leaves you alive and reinfectable.

    To change the subject to something more depressing, in a covid free time line this would be the year when we realised that we are thoroughly and irreversibly fucked by climate warming. We just haven't had time to notice.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,319

    Not as bright this morning here as the BBC's weather forecast says it ought to be! Nor, quite, as warm!

    Oh, they've had a bad run going back some months but it's hard to tell just how bad because they never publish results.
    yeah, its become an in-joke with my mates as to how ropey the BBC weather app has been.
    You could sympathise with their difficulty if they ever acknowledge getting it wrong. It would be a simple matter to insert a small graphic on the charts to indicate the percentage accuracy the previous day but as it is they are like tipsters who won't tell you how they have been getting on.

    The best analysis of their work I have ever found was in Nate Silver's book The Signal and the Noise. He reckoned they had a 78% accuracy rate which sounds ok until you realise that if you predict each day that it will not rain you would be right 70% of the time. Is all that time and expense worth it for the extra 8%? Probably, but let's be honest about it. It's a science that has a long way to go.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    The Dura Ace post has been deleted
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Not as bright this morning here as the BBC's weather forecast says it ought to be! Nor, quite, as warm!

    Oh, they've had a bad run going back some months but it's hard to tell just how bad because they never publish results.
    yeah, its become an in-joke with my mates as to how ropey the BBC weather app has been.
    Their night-time temperatures have been very optimistic. Plenty of times recently I have fired up the moth traps on the basis of Beeb weather saying it was going to be 12-14 degrees, only to find it nearer to 5. And wind speeds have been higher than predicted. Neither are conducive to moths coming out to play....
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.
  • Options
    coachcoach Posts: 250

    The Dura Ace post has been deleted

    As I didn't see it may I ask why?
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,319

    Not as bright this morning here as the BBC's weather forecast says it ought to be! Nor, quite, as warm!

    Oh, they've had a bad run going back some months but it's hard to tell just how bad because they never publish results.
    yeah, its become an in-joke with my mates as to how ropey the BBC weather app has been.
    Their night-time temperatures have been very optimistic. Plenty of times recently I have fired up the moth traps on the basis of Beeb weather saying it was going to be 12-14 degrees, only to find it nearer to 5. And wind speeds have been higher than predicted. Neither are conducive to moths coming out to play....
    Is it just incompetence, or are they deliberately anti-moth?

    If it sounds like I have a grudge, I do. My grape vines were badly hit by an unseasonal and unpredicted May frost.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Test
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Duda wins with 51.2%, @DoubleCarpet had it almost bang on iirc.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Not as bright this morning here as the BBC's weather forecast says it ought to be! Nor, quite, as warm!

    Oh, they've had a bad run going back some months but it's hard to tell just how bad because they never publish results.
    yeah, its become an in-joke with my mates as to how ropey the BBC weather app has been.
    Their night-time temperatures have been very optimistic. Plenty of times recently I have fired up the moth traps on the basis of Beeb weather saying it was going to be 12-14 degrees, only to find it nearer to 5. And wind speeds have been higher than predicted. Neither are conducive to moths coming out to play....
    Is it just incompetence, or are they deliberately anti-moth?

    If it sounds like I have a grudge, I do. My grape vines were badly hit by an unseasonal and unpredicted May frost.
    Budget cuts at the BBC forced them to change their weather data supplier. A direct consequence of government policy to shift world service funding onto the licence fee payer. If you don’t like it, don’t vote for it.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    I don't know who they use, but Google seem to be very good at weather forecasting.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    coach said:

    The Dura Ace post has been deleted

    As I didn't see it may I ask why?
    Me neither. But it must have been bad, given the leniency the site shows towards a certain other poster (s).
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who they use, but Google seem to be very good at weather forecasting.

    Accuweather is better than the BBC. The BBC forecasts often seem to contain a random element - for example differing between your postcode and your town.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Not as bright this morning here as the BBC's weather forecast says it ought to be! Nor, quite, as warm!

    Oh, they've had a bad run going back some months but it's hard to tell just how bad because they never publish results.
    yeah, its become an in-joke with my mates as to how ropey the BBC weather app has been.
    Their night-time temperatures have been very optimistic. Plenty of times recently I have fired up the moth traps on the basis of Beeb weather saying it was going to be 12-14 degrees, only to find it nearer to 5. And wind speeds have been higher than predicted. Neither are conducive to moths coming out to play....
    Is it just incompetence, or are they deliberately anti-moth?

    If it sounds like I have a grudge, I do. My grape vines were badly hit by an unseasonal and unpredicted May frost.
    Hadn't considered them being actively malevolent.....
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited July 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    We must hope the disease mutates to become milder.

    Why would it bother? The mantra is that overly severe viruses die out because they kill off all the potential hosts. That would be an issue if you were a virus exclusively affecting the snow leopard, but have you noticed how many more people there are than snow leopards? Also, this virus isn't notably lethal, the complaint is that it fucks you up but leaves you alive and reinfectable.

    To change the subject to something more depressing, in a covid free time line this would be the year when we realised that we are thoroughly and irreversibly fucked by climate warming. We just haven't had time to notice.
    It's not just the death rate - viruses that don't make people so ill mean carriers go out and about and spread it more readily, compared to those that lay their carriers up in bed.

    The trick Corona has pulled - and a key reason why it has proved so problematic - is the first week or so (or indeed throughout) with absolutely no symptoms.

    On the upside, there is no (other) way that humanity would have organised to reduce emissions so quickly and dramatically to tackle climate change. It may be temporary (although I would expect an after effect) but it will at least provide some interesting data to calibrate the impact of other potential interventions.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who they use, but Google seem to be very good at weather forecasting.

    The weather channel app seems ok and provides local radar
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Netweather.tv is the best place for accurate forecasts. I use it to plan BBQs and it never fails me. The BBC forecast is a joke.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who they use, but Google seem to be very good at weather forecasting.

    Accuweather is better than the BBC. The BBC forecasts often seem to contain a random element - for example differing between your postcode and your town.
    I've noticed that; although my town is right in the middle of the postcode. Which is only small as well.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited July 2020

    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who they use, but Google seem to be very good at weather forecasting.

    Accuweather is better than the BBC. The BBC forecasts often seem to contain a random element - for example differing between your postcode and your town.
    I've noticed that; although my town is right in the middle of the postcode. Which is only small as well.
    The other thing is that, while long-range forecasting has made massive strides over the past decade, the BBC has a habit of significantly changing forecasts at short notice. For example it's now forecasting showers this evening and tonight for my location, whereas yesterday it had today down as completely dry.

    It is, however, a lovely sunny and clear morning, if not as warm as the weekend.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Pew did some work on this and found Trump support dropping fastest in counties where there are higher COVID death rates.

    I suspect Trump is artificially low and will close things up in the polls.
    My hope is to be sitting pretty on Nov 5, with plenty of green on either candidate, waiting for localised betting opportunities...
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
    Since we asked to leave the responsibility to get this right is ours. The buck stops at number 10.

    I’m getting old. I remember when Conservatives claimed to value taking responsibility for the decisions we make.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
    Since we asked to leave the responsibility to get this right is ours. The buck stops at number 10.

    I’m getting old. I remember when Conservatives claimed to value taking responsibility for the decisions we make.
    I remember when Big_G was adamant that we should only leave with a deal. Now he is happy to wash his hands while the government strolls toward no deal, and simply parrot their attempt to blame the EU.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Scott_xP said:
    Just a gentle nudge Scott, no amount of anti Brexit posts is going to stop it happening and maybe the odd post urging the EU to compromise would be sensible
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
    Since we asked to leave the responsibility to get this right is ours. The buck stops at number 10.

    I’m getting old. I remember when Conservatives claimed to value taking responsibility for the decisions we make.
    I remember when Big_G was adamant that we should only leave with a deal. Now he is happy to wash his hands while the government strolls toward no deal, and simply parrot their attempt to blame the EU.
    That is untrue as I still want a deal

    However, both sides are just as idiotic and instead of blind loyalty to the EU, a balanced critic would be more helpful
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
    Since we asked to leave the responsibility to get this right is ours. The buck stops at number 10.

    I’m getting old. I remember when Conservatives claimed to value taking responsibility for the decisions we make.
    I remember when Big_G was adamant that we should only leave with a deal. Now he is happy to wash his hands while the government strolls toward no deal, and simply parrot their attempt to blame the EU.
    There is an obligation to ensure that as it develops people are reminded that they voted for it, good or bad. So if people complain that their health insurance now costs more they need to realize they voted for it.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    We must hope the disease mutates to become milder.

    Why would it bother? The mantra is that overly severe viruses die out because they kill off all the potential hosts. That would be an issue if you were a virus exclusively affecting the snow leopard, but have you noticed how many more people there are than snow leopards? Also, this virus isn't notably lethal, the complaint is that it fucks you up but leaves you alive and reinfectable.

    To change the subject to something more depressing, in a covid free time line this would be the year when we realised that we are thoroughly and irreversibly fucked by climate warming. We just haven't had time to notice.
    It's not just the death rate - viruses that don't make people so ill mean carriers go out and about and spread it more readily, compared to those that lay their carriers up in bed.

    The trick Corona has pulled - and a key reason why it has proved so problematic - is the first week or so (or indeed throughout) with absolutely no symptoms.

    On the upside, there is no (other) way that humanity would have organised to reduce emissions so quickly and dramatically to tackle climate change. It may be temporary (although I would expect an after effect) but it will at least provide some interesting data to calibrate the impact of other potential interventions.
    If the reports that you can get it twice are correct, them we are totally and utterly screwed without a vaccine.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
    Since we asked to leave the responsibility to get this right is ours. The buck stops at number 10.

    I’m getting old. I remember when Conservatives claimed to value taking responsibility for the decisions we make.
    The conservative party will face re-election and the public can then vote them out if they are unhappy
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    IanB2 said:

    coach said:

    The Dura Ace post has been deleted

    As I didn't see it may I ask why?
    Me neither. But it must have been bad, given the leniency the site shows towards a certain other poster (s).
    TBH, it was a bit over-nasty, even by DA's standards. Wishing life-threatening illness on someone........
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,541
    IshmaelZ said:

    We must hope the disease mutates to become milder.

    Why would it bother? The mantra is that overly severe viruses die out because they kill off all the potential hosts. That would be an issue if you were a virus exclusively affecting the snow leopard, but have you noticed how many more people there are than snow leopards? Also, this virus isn't notably lethal, the complaint is that it fucks you up but leaves you alive and reinfectable.

    To change the subject to something more depressing, in a covid free time line this would be the year when we realised that we are thoroughly and irreversibly fucked by climate warming. We just haven't had time to notice.
    Steady on, we can only deal with one existential crisis at a time. Just like the dinosaurs who were busy planning a method for organising the breeding of small furry mammals for culinary purposes as they faced a food shortage when they should have been checking that their anti-asteroid devices were up to date.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
    Since we asked to leave the responsibility to get this right is ours. The buck stops at number 10.

    I’m getting old. I remember when Conservatives claimed to value taking responsibility for the decisions we make.
    The conservative party will face re-election and the public can then vote them out if they are unhappy
    Again, offloading responsibility.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
    Since we asked to leave the responsibility to get this right is ours. The buck stops at number 10.

    I’m getting old. I remember when Conservatives claimed to value taking responsibility for the decisions we make.
    Johnson doesn't 'do' responsibility.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
    Since we asked to leave the responsibility to get this right is ours. The buck stops at number 10.

    I’m getting old. I remember when Conservatives claimed to value taking responsibility for the decisions we make.
    I remember when Big_G was adamant that we should only leave with a deal. Now he is happy to wash his hands while the government strolls toward no deal, and simply parrot their attempt to blame the EU.
    There is an obligation to ensure that as it develops people are reminded that they voted for it, good or bad. So if people complain that their health insurance now costs more they need to realize they voted for it.
    And I voted remain but accept things will change
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,718
    edited July 2020
    It is remarkable that four years on, proponents of Brexit have failed to articulate a single upside. Mostly it's been about pretending the many downsides don't exist. Usually with big changes you see pluses and minuses.

    I am not including personal upsides for Johnson and more jobs for those that deal with red tape.


    Scott_xP said:
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Jonathan said:

    Not as bright this morning here as the BBC's weather forecast says it ought to be! Nor, quite, as warm!

    Oh, they've had a bad run going back some months but it's hard to tell just how bad because they never publish results.
    yeah, its become an in-joke with my mates as to how ropey the BBC weather app has been.
    Their night-time temperatures have been very optimistic. Plenty of times recently I have fired up the moth traps on the basis of Beeb weather saying it was going to be 12-14 degrees, only to find it nearer to 5. And wind speeds have been higher than predicted. Neither are conducive to moths coming out to play....
    Is it just incompetence, or are they deliberately anti-moth?

    If it sounds like I have a grudge, I do. My grape vines were badly hit by an unseasonal and unpredicted May frost.
    Budget cuts at the BBC forced them to change their weather data supplier. A direct consequence of government policy to shift world service funding onto the licence fee payer. If you don’t like it, don’t vote for it.
    No, BBC management CHOSE to do that in response to the new funding arrangements.

    It’s funny how it’s all the high profile stories that play well in the media which are the things that are cut.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited July 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Mutual recognition of professional standards is not uncommon

    Edit: but I suppose it is too much to ask for to expect the EU lawyers to break down non tariff barriers that protect EU lawyers from competition
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_xP said:
    Just a gentle nudge Scott, no amount of anti Brexit posts is going to stop it happening and maybe the odd post urging the EU to compromise would be sensible
    I must admit it’s the “no cherry picking” argument that is the most irritating

    That’s EXACTLY what a deal is. You give me something I want, I’ll give you something you want.

    If you don’t want to do a deal then don’t waste our time
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    We must hope the disease mutates to become milder.

    Why would it bother? The mantra is that overly severe viruses die out because they kill off all the potential hosts. That would be an issue if you were a virus exclusively affecting the snow leopard, but have you noticed how many more people there are than snow leopards? Also, this virus isn't notably lethal, the complaint is that it fucks you up but leaves you alive and reinfectable.

    To change the subject to something more depressing, in a covid free time line this would be the year when we realised that we are thoroughly and irreversibly fucked by climate warming. We just haven't had time to notice.
    It's not just the death rate - viruses that don't make people so ill mean carriers go out and about and spread it more readily, compared to those that lay their carriers up in bed.

    The trick Corona has pulled - and a key reason why it has proved so problematic - is the first week or so (or indeed throughout) with absolutely no symptoms.

    On the upside, there is no (other) way that humanity would have organised to reduce emissions so quickly and dramatically to tackle climate change. It may be temporary (although I would expect an after effect) but it will at least provide some interesting data to calibrate the impact of other potential interventions.
    If the reports that you can get it twice are correct, them we are totally and utterly screwed without a vaccine.
    I'm not sure if those reports that you can catch it twice are that accurate - but that doesn't mean it's good news.

    I suspect that for the people that catch it twice it's actually Covid staying dormant for a bit and then launching a second attack...
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
    Since we asked to leave the responsibility to get this right is ours. The buck stops at number 10.

    I’m getting old. I remember when Conservatives claimed to value taking responsibility for the decisions we make.
    The conservative party will face re-election and the public can then vote them out if they are unhappy
    Again, offloading responsibility.
    No?

    The government is responsible and the voters will judge them.

    But if a negotiation breaks down it is rare the fault is all on one side
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,718
    edited July 2020
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Mutual recognition of professional standards is not uncommon

    Edit: but I suppose it is too much to ask for to expect the EU lawyers to break down non tariff barriers that protect EU lawyers from competition
    Is it common? Which countries allow lawyers to practise based on their registration in other countries? I would have thought the EU was nearly unique.

    Edit. UK lawyers no longer having that unique access is one of the many downsides to Brexit.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
    Charles said:

    I must admit it’s the “no cherry picking” argument that is the most irritating

    That’s EXACTLY what a deal is. You give me something I want, I’ll give you something you want.

    If you don’t want to do a deal then don’t waste our time

    What the EU wants is the integrity of the single market.

    They always wanted that.

    We always knew that.

    Asking them to abandon that is not negotiating. It's insane.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FF43 said:

    It is remarkable that four years on, proponents of Brexit have failed to articulate a single upside. Mostly it's been about pretending the many downsides don't exist. Usually with big changes you see pluses and minuses.

    I am not including personal upsides for Johnson and more jobs for those that deal with red tape.




    Scott_xP said:
    They’ve been articulated many times.

    Fundamentally it’s the freedom to choose our own destiny.

    You don’t value that highly and therefore emphasis the economic aspects.

    That’s your right, of course, but it’s incorrect say that the upsides have not been articulated
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631

    Scott_xP said:
    Just a gentle nudge Scott, no amount of anti Brexit posts is going to stop it happening and maybe the odd post urging the EU to compromise would be sensible
    Why do you think the EU should compromise? We choose to leave; they didn't vote to throw us out. They should only compromise when it is to their benefit to do so.

    If you are negotiating with someone eg to buy a car and can walk away anytime the garage is forced to compromise if it wants a deal. If you have to buy a car and have to buy it from that garage then there is no incentive for them to compromise. Why should they?

    This is all coming from people who are pro business, yet don't seem to grasp simple negotiating positions.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FF43 said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Mutual recognition of professional standards is not uncommon

    Edit: but I suppose it is too much to ask for to expect the EU lawyers to break down non tariff barriers that protect EU lawyers from competition
    Is it common? Which countries allow lawyers to practise based on their registration in other countries? I would have thought the EU was nearly unique.
    I don’t know lawyers specifically but certainly doctors, nurses, vets and accountants all have a system in place.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_xP said:

    Charles said:

    I must admit it’s the “no cherry picking” argument that is the most irritating

    That’s EXACTLY what a deal is. You give me something I want, I’ll give you something you want.

    If you don’t want to do a deal then don’t waste our time

    What the EU wants is the integrity of the single market.

    They always wanted that.

    We always knew that.

    Asking them to abandon that is not negotiating. It's insane.
    So then how have they done a trade deal with anyone?
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,818
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    We must hope the disease mutates to become milder.

    Why would it bother? The mantra is that overly severe viruses die out because they kill off all the potential hosts. That would be an issue if you were a virus exclusively affecting the snow leopard, but have you noticed how many more people there are than snow leopards? Also, this virus isn't notably lethal, the complaint is that it fucks you up but leaves you alive and reinfectable.

    To change the subject to something more depressing, in a covid free time line this would be the year when we realised that we are thoroughly and irreversibly fucked by climate warming. We just haven't had time to notice.
    It's not just the death rate - viruses that don't make people so ill mean carriers go out and about and spread it more readily, compared to those that lay their carriers up in bed.

    The trick Corona has pulled - and a key reason why it has proved so problematic - is the first week or so (or indeed throughout) with absolutely no symptoms.

    On the upside, there is no (other) way that humanity would have organised to reduce emissions so quickly and dramatically to tackle climate change. It may be temporary (although I would expect an after effect) but it will at least provide some interesting data to calibrate the impact of other potential interventions.
    If the reports that you can get it twice are correct, them we are totally and utterly screwed without a vaccine.
    It is indeed bad news, but not that shocking.
    However, on the counter-side, I was informed by those in the know that there’s a spectrum of difficulty with creating vaccines, and covid very much appears to be on the less difficult side. They’re stone cold certain that at least one, and very probably several, of the attempts in train will prove successful and possibly do so faster than the initial (thought to be optimistic) estimates.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
    Charles said:

    Fundamentally it’s the freedom to choose our own destiny.

    A destiny which is universally inferior (unless perhaps you are uber-wealthy already...)

    That's not an upside.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
    Charles said:

    So then how have they done a trade deal with anyone?

    By not doing any of the things we are asking for.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,156
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Just a gentle nudge Scott, no amount of anti Brexit posts is going to stop it happening and maybe the odd post urging the EU to compromise would be sensible
    I must admit it’s the “no cherry picking” argument that is the most irritating

    That’s EXACTLY what a deal is. You give me something I want, I’ll give you something you want.

    If you don’t want to do a deal then don’t waste our time
    Quite so Charles. We have left the EU and what remains is to put in place a FTA which is agreeable to both sides. It has to be "win-win". That is what an agreement freely entered into is. What dismays me is the profusion of mercantalist opinion that we, or they, can get something at the expense of the other side.

  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,818
    However, one significant issue out of the “lingering illness” finding is that the US will be paying the price of Trump’s failures in covid for a very long time.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,718
    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    It is remarkable that four years on, proponents of Brexit have failed to articulate a single upside. Mostly it's been about pretending the many downsides don't exist. Usually with big changes you see pluses and minuses.

    I am not including personal upsides for Johnson and more jobs for those that deal with red tape.




    Scott_xP said:
    They’ve been articulated many times.

    Fundamentally it’s the freedom to choose our own destiny.

    You don’t value that highly and therefore emphasis the economic aspects.

    That’s your right, of course, but it’s incorrect say that the upsides have not been articulated
    I am talking about demonstrable tyre-hitting-the-road benefits to Brexit, which so far there have been none,, nor have you articulated any, against the many demonstrable tyre-hitting-the-road costs and losses.

    You can talk airy-fairy national destiny (which somehow doesn't apply to Scotland) and I can talk airy-fairy Peace in Europe and those things don't mean a thing unless we can point to people getting some practical benefit out of them.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Not as bright this morning here as the BBC's weather forecast says it ought to be! Nor, quite, as warm!

    Oh, they've had a bad run going back some months but it's hard to tell just how bad because they never publish results.
    yeah, its become an in-joke with my mates as to how ropey the BBC weather app has been.
    Their night-time temperatures have been very optimistic. Plenty of times recently I have fired up the moth traps on the basis of Beeb weather saying it was going to be 12-14 degrees, only to find it nearer to 5. And wind speeds have been higher than predicted. Neither are conducive to moths coming out to play....
    Is it just incompetence, or are they deliberately anti-moth?

    If it sounds like I have a grudge, I do. My grape vines were badly hit by an unseasonal and unpredicted May frost.
    Budget cuts at the BBC forced them to change their weather data supplier. A direct consequence of government policy to shift world service funding onto the licence fee payer. If you don’t like it, don’t vote for it.
    No, BBC management CHOSE to do that in response to the new funding arrangements.

    It’s funny how it’s all the high profile stories that play well in the media which are the things that are cut.
    They also have £100m to invest in a “diversity fund”, but on the same day announce redundancies in local news reporting.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/22/black-lives-matter-bbc-introduces-diversity-quota-pledges-100m/

    BBC management choose their own priorities.
    Does anyone remember this one (was a long while ago) -

    1) The NHS were asked to trim management overhead.
    2) An administrative type had the clever idea of sending redundancy notices to all the oncology nurses at Great Ormand Street Hospital (childrens hospital)
    4) Press firestorm.
    5) Being very, very stupid, she sent an email boasting of her genius in protecting the budget.
    6) Email leaked.

    The response was interesting - apparently it wasn't fair to judge her like that, since "that's what people do".....
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    edited July 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    Charles said:

    Fundamentally it’s the freedom to choose our own destiny.

    A destiny which is universally inferior (unless perhaps you are uber-wealthy already...)

    That's not an upside.
    Absolutely.

    In 1914, for example, we missed a trick. We could have sold Belgium to the Germans - heck, add in France as well. Price - their colonies.

    We would have been better off.

    More recently, we could have sold Ukraine to Russia. Half of one country, plus a UN security council veto. Say 50 billion euro, easy terms.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Just a gentle nudge Scott, no amount of anti Brexit posts is going to stop it happening and maybe the odd post urging the EU to compromise would be sensible
    I must admit it’s the “no cherry picking” argument that is the most irritating

    That’s EXACTLY what a deal is. You give me something I want, I’ll give you something you want.

    If you don’t want to do a deal then don’t waste our time
    Quite so Charles. We have left the EU and what remains is to put in place a FTA which is agreeable to both sides. It has to be "win-win". That is what an agreement freely entered into is. What dismays me is the profusion of mercantalist opinion that we, or they, can get something at the expense of the other side.

    Entirely agree. You look for win-win situations, typically give away something of lower cost to you for higher return to them in exchange for something in return.

    But don't expect compromise without something in exchange.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,541
    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Just a gentle nudge Scott, no amount of anti Brexit posts is going to stop it happening and maybe the odd post urging the EU to compromise would be sensible
    I must admit it’s the “no cherry picking” argument that is the most irritating

    That’s EXACTLY what a deal is. You give me something I want, I’ll give you something you want.

    If you don’t want to do a deal then don’t waste our time
    Quite so Charles. We have left the EU and what remains is to put in place a FTA which is agreeable to both sides. It has to be "win-win". That is what an agreement freely entered into is. What dismays me is the profusion of mercantalist opinion that we, or they, can get something at the expense of the other side.

    There is going to be lots of pain. This does not tell us whether we should have left. The big reasons for leaving were two fold: the EU is taking on the clothing and character of a single state so there is a sovereignty question in which there is more than one decent view, but denial is not among them. Secondly, while it is a free market (to a large extent) within, it operates as a protectionist bloc towards outsiders.

    If I am right we are now going to have the pain of being on the outside of a neighbouring protectionist bloc. The UK will need large doses of courage and competence. Humm....

  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631

    However, one significant issue out of the “lingering illness” finding is that the US will be paying the price of Trump’s failures in covid for a very long time.

    I note that Sunday compared to previous Sunday in US (a low reporting day so doesn't hit headlines) is 50% up on deaths and 12,000 plus up on cases. This growth is typical of the preceding days. Come Wed - Fri of this week (the higher reporting days) the US numbers could be horrific.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    We must hope the disease mutates to become milder.

    Why would it bother? The mantra is that overly severe viruses die out because they kill off all the potential hosts. That would be an issue if you were a virus exclusively affecting the snow leopard, but have you noticed how many more people there are than snow leopards? Also, this virus isn't notably lethal, the complaint is that it fucks you up but leaves you alive and reinfectable.

    To change the subject to something more depressing, in a covid free time line this would be the year when we realised that we are thoroughly and irreversibly fucked by climate warming. We just haven't had time to notice.
    It's not just the death rate - viruses that don't make people so ill mean carriers go out and about and spread it more readily, compared to those that lay their carriers up in bed.

    The trick Corona has pulled - and a key reason why it has proved so problematic - is the first week or so (or indeed throughout) with absolutely no symptoms.

    On the upside, there is no (other) way that humanity would have organised to reduce emissions so quickly and dramatically to tackle climate change. It may be temporary (although I would expect an after effect) but it will at least provide some interesting data to calibrate the impact of other potential interventions.
    If the reports that you can get it twice are correct, them we are totally and utterly screwed without a vaccine.
    It is indeed bad news, but not that shocking.
    However, on the counter-side, I was informed by those in the know that there’s a spectrum of difficulty with creating vaccines, and covid very much appears to be on the less difficult side. They’re stone cold certain that at least one, and very probably several, of the attempts in train will prove successful and possibly do so faster than the initial (thought to be optimistic) estimates.
    It seems people definitely do get immunity, albeit potentially temporary.

    That mean once we've got a vaccine, as many people as possible should get it in as quickly as possible. If say 90% of the > 10 yr old population is vaccinated in a 2 month window (There'll always be people that can't/won't) that pushes the infected (So far as the virus is concerned) way above its R0 to reproduce so the disease should in theory go away in that time.
  • Options
    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    It is remarkable that four years on, proponents of Brexit have failed to articulate a single upside. Mostly it's been about pretending the many downsides don't exist. Usually with big changes you see pluses and minuses.

    I am not including personal upsides for Johnson and more jobs for those that deal with red tape.




    Scott_xP said:
    They’ve been articulated many times.

    Fundamentally it’s the freedom to choose our own destiny.

    You don’t value that highly and therefore emphasis the economic aspects.

    That’s your right, of course, but it’s incorrect say that the upsides have not been articulated
    So a load of airy-fairy nonsense that will never fill a stomach or put a roof over anyone's head.

    Cool, cool, enjoy.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    I don't think anyone has picked up on this from last week but the Government has decided that they wish to push ahead with making all local councils Unitary and outlined minimum (300,000 population) and preferred (400,000) sizes.

    The bun fights in Surrey and North Yorkshire amongst other places are going to be a sight to behold.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,548
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Mutual recognition of professional standards is not uncommon

    Edit: but I suppose it is too much to ask for to expect the EU lawyers to break down non tariff barriers that protect EU lawyers from competition
    Is his an EU competence or a country competence, given that many such agreements already exist?

    It sounds like another Brussels "You are a third party country, but we don't want to treat you like one."
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Just a gentle nudge Scott, no amount of anti Brexit posts is going to stop it happening and maybe the odd post urging the EU to compromise would be sensible
    I must admit it’s the “no cherry picking” argument that is the most irritating

    That’s EXACTLY what a deal is. You give me something I want, I’ll give you something you want.

    If you don’t want to do a deal then don’t waste our time
    I agree with that 100% Charles, but might this not be a case of us wanting stuff but not giving anything in exchange.

    Clearly the EU makes deals with non EU countries so gives stuff away in exchange for something in return so why is this different.

    The message coming across (whether accurate or not) is we want to keep the benefits of EU membership that we enjoyed and don't seem to understand that we need to give something in exchange.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,336
    edited July 2020
    Charles said:




    They’ve been articulated many times.

    Fundamentally it’s the freedom to choose our own destiny.

    You don’t value that highly and therefore emphasis the economic aspects.

    That’s your right, of course, but it’s incorrect say that the upsides have not been articulated

    I'd be open to considering that (it's argued by Lexit supporters), but I don't think it's real, any more than the right of, say, Birmingham City Council to choose Birmingham's own destiny. In the real world as it is today, most of the important choices that weren't already held by individual nations are in fact multilateral.

    We can rweak and we can whinge that other countries aren't facilitating our wishes, but in the end it's an illusion to think we now control our destiny much more than we did before. In many ways, rather less, as we no longer directly influence the decisions made that affect us.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    How depressing to wake up to more Brexit bullshit from this government. So incompetent it couldn’t even maintain the EHIC card. We’re in for a tough ride.

    As much as you complain we are leaving the EU and many things will change

    However, maybe the UK and EU need to stop dancing around each other and start compromising before it is too late
    I may not have voted for this nonsense, but why do the government have to make such a pigs ear of it?
    It takes two to tango and the EU are not blameless
    Since we asked to leave the responsibility to get this right is ours. The buck stops at number 10.

    I’m getting old. I remember when Conservatives claimed to value taking responsibility for the decisions we make.
    I remember when Big_G was adamant that we should only leave with a deal. Now he is happy to wash his hands while the government strolls toward no deal, and simply parrot their attempt to blame the EU.
    There is an obligation to ensure that as it develops people are reminded that they voted for it, good or bad. So if people complain that their health insurance now costs more they need to realize they voted for it.
    And I voted remain but accept things will change
    The papers will ensure that people will feel comfortable blaming the EU for every downside of brexit regardless of the reality of the situation. As long as 41% of the population swallow this then that’s all the tories need. Truth is irrelevant.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rkrkrk said:

    Pew did some work on this and found Trump support dropping fastest in counties where there are higher COVID death rates.

    I suspect Trump is artificially low and will close things up in the polls.
    My hope is to be sitting pretty on Nov 5, with plenty of green on either candidate, waiting for localised betting opportunities...

    Trump has huuuuuge potential for bounce back and like you I think he is effectively undercounted in the polls at this point.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    Deleted
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    FF43 said:

    It is remarkable that four years on, proponents of Brexit have failed to articulate a single upside. Mostly it's been about pretending the many downsides don't exist. Usually with big changes you see pluses and minuses.

    I am not including personal upsides for Johnson and more jobs for those that deal with red tape.




    Scott_xP said:
    Freeports seems to be the upside de jour.

  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913

    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    It is remarkable that four years on, proponents of Brexit have failed to articulate a single upside. Mostly it's been about pretending the many downsides don't exist. Usually with big changes you see pluses and minuses.

    I am not including personal upsides for Johnson and more jobs for those that deal with red tape.




    Scott_xP said:
    They’ve been articulated many times.

    Fundamentally it’s the freedom to choose our own destiny.

    You don’t value that highly and therefore emphasis the economic aspects.

    That’s your right, of course, but it’s incorrect say that the upsides have not been articulated
    So a load of airy-fairy nonsense that will never fill a stomach or put a roof over anyone's head.

    Cool, cool, enjoy.
    Charles doesn't need to worry about those sort of minor details.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    eek said:

    I don't think anyone has picked up on this from last week but the Government has decided that they wish to push ahead with making all local councils Unitary and outlined minimum (300,000 population) and preferred (400,000) sizes.

    The bun fights in Surrey and North Yorkshire amongst other places are going to be a sight to behold.

    And from Tory district councillors who would no longer have a seat
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,818
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    We must hope the disease mutates to become milder.

    Why would it bother? The mantra is that overly severe viruses die out because they kill off all the potential hosts. That would be an issue if you were a virus exclusively affecting the snow leopard, but have you noticed how many more people there are than snow leopards? Also, this virus isn't notably lethal, the complaint is that it fucks you up but leaves you alive and reinfectable.

    To change the subject to something more depressing, in a covid free time line this would be the year when we realised that we are thoroughly and irreversibly fucked by climate warming. We just haven't had time to notice.
    It's not just the death rate - viruses that don't make people so ill mean carriers go out and about and spread it more readily, compared to those that lay their carriers up in bed.

    The trick Corona has pulled - and a key reason why it has proved so problematic - is the first week or so (or indeed throughout) with absolutely no symptoms.

    On the upside, there is no (other) way that humanity would have organised to reduce emissions so quickly and dramatically to tackle climate change. It may be temporary (although I would expect an after effect) but it will at least provide some interesting data to calibrate the impact of other potential interventions.
    If the reports that you can get it twice are correct, them we are totally and utterly screwed without a vaccine.
    It is indeed bad news, but not that shocking.
    However, on the counter-side, I was informed by those in the know that there’s a spectrum of difficulty with creating vaccines, and covid very much appears to be on the less difficult side. They’re stone cold certain that at least one, and very probably several, of the attempts in train will prove successful and possibly do so faster than the initial (thought to be optimistic) estimates.
    It seems people definitely do get immunity, albeit potentially temporary.

    That mean once we've got a vaccine, as many people as possible should get it in as quickly as possible. If say 90% of the > 10 yr old population is vaccinated in a 2 month window (There'll always be people that can't/won't) that pushes the infected (So far as the virus is concerned) way above its R0 to reproduce so the disease should in theory go away in that time.
    Indeed. Even if the vaccines themselves wear off (and the immunity generated from vaccines tends to be significantly longer lasting than the immunity generated by infection, anyway), the removal of any potential targets for the virus for a prolonged period can send it the way of smallpox.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    FF43 said:

    It is remarkable that four years on, proponents of Brexit have failed to articulate a single upside. Mostly it's been about pretending the many downsides don't exist. Usually with big changes you see pluses and minuses.

    I am not including personal upsides for Johnson and more jobs for those that deal with red tape.




    Scott_xP said:
    Ending free movement and replacing it with a points system, doing our own trade deals and greater control of our fishing waters
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,386
    edited July 2020
    kjh said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Just a gentle nudge Scott, no amount of anti Brexit posts is going to stop it happening and maybe the odd post urging the EU to compromise would be sensible
    Why do you think the EU should compromise? We choose to leave; they didn't vote to throw us out. They should only compromise when it is to their benefit to do so.

    If you are negotiating with someone eg to buy a car and can walk away anytime the garage is forced to compromise if it wants a deal. If you have to buy a car and have to buy it from that garage then there is no incentive for them to compromise. Why should they?

    This is all coming from people who are pro business, yet don't seem to grasp simple negotiating positions.
    Careful KJH

    Back in January I was accused of being a traitor for putting forward similar points. What a country!
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    I don't think anyone has picked up on this from last week but the Government has decided that they wish to push ahead with making all local councils Unitary and outlined minimum (300,000 population) and preferred (400,000) sizes.

    The bun fights in Surrey and North Yorkshire amongst other places are going to be a sight to behold.

    And from Tory district councillors who would no longer have a seat
    300k minimum would entail pretty much a total redrawing of metropolitans - even where a metropolitan is 300k+, it almost certainly has a neighbour that isn't.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    MaxPB said:

    Netweather.tv is the best place for accurate forecasts. I use it to plan BBQs and it never fails me. The BBC forecast is a joke.

    Netweather is indeed excellent. Their animated rain tracker is a fantastic feature.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    edited July 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Kay Burley on Sky invited an expert to talk on masks and when he said they were not needed in shops due to the short time spent close to people she was utterly deflated

    Also on 5 live this morning there were far more saying they would not go to the shops if they had to wear a mask

    The debate goes on, but I expect most people agree it is correct on public transport and confined spaces but not elsewhere
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Mutual recognition of professional standards is not uncommon

    Edit: but I suppose it is too much to ask for to expect the EU lawyers to break down non tariff barriers that protect EU lawyers from competition
    Is it common? Which countries allow lawyers to practise based on their registration in other countries? I would have thought the EU was nearly unique.
    I don’t know lawyers specifically but certainly doctors, nurses, vets and accountants all have a system in place.
    Something is either unique or it is not.
    OK, pedantic.

    However, so far as my (ex) professional registration is concerned, I could have registered to work in other countries, my qualification being recognised by the relevant bodies.And EU pharmacists could, and did, register here. However I couldn't go across to Germany without re-registering, and likewise a German or Spanish pharmacist couldn't practice here without first registering. And registering is quite expensive.
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