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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Starmer is not going to let go of the issue of Johnson not

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  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited July 2020
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    MrEd said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    We can fly what ever flag we want - do you think the countries/states that currently have the Union flag as part of their flag are going to change theirs? It's a strong brand. Keep it.

    The Czech Republic kept the flag of Czechoslovakia. There's no reason the United Kingdom of England and Wales could not cling to the butcher's apron if they wanted.
    It would be akin to a divorced husband continuing to wear his wedding ring, long after his wife had left him and the marriage had been dissolved.

    It would be incredibly sad and pathetic.
    Happens quite a lot though.
    However I'm assured by certain parties below that hubby wouldn't want faithless bitch Scotland back.
    Quick question - if the Border Counties and Orkney and Shetland both stated they wanted to remain part of the UK after a Yes vote, what would be your view?

    Not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely interested in how it would be viewed.
    The question or similar has come up quite a few times over the years and my answer has always been the same: if these counties want to organise a party that could get sufficient support for a referendum (eg get an msp elected) on the issue they should certainly be allowed to have one.

    There was an O&S independence party but afaik it dissolved like snow of a dyke several years ago.
    They'd need the approval of the Scottish parliament to hold a vote?
    We're in the realms of hypothetical bolleaux, so if you've an alternative scenario please feel free to indulge in it.
    Seeking the break up of Scotland - or indeed England - is every bit as legitimate as seeking the break up of the UK. There is likely to have been so much inter marriage over the centuries that a significant proportion will now feel only partially Scottish , Welsh or English.
    Of course given the Scottish borders would almost certainly vote strongly No to independence if Yes won indyref2 in the next decade then it is possible it could push to stay in the UK with England and Wales and Northern Ireland much as Scotland pushed to stay in the EU when the UK as a whole voted Leave
    You’re right. Northumberland should attempt to join an Independent Scotland.
    Of course not given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK
    By your logic Scotland and London should still be in the EU.
    Not London as all its seats are still held by Unionist parties despite Brexit, however if Scotland were granted an independence referendum and voted Yes areas like the Scottish Borders which still have Unionist MPs and would likely vote No to independence should stay in the UK
    I like your keen insight into the mind of the average Scottish Borderer.

    Just for a laugh to the hypothetical polling question
    "If Scotland becomes independent should the Scottish Borders
    A: Remain Part of Scotland Leaving the UK
    B: Remain Part of the UK Leaving Scotland"

    What do you think the two options would poll? Let's say the Scottish Borders voted 40% Yes, 60% No at the preceding IndyRef.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Scott_xP said:
    And the second biggest gap was the 86 point divide between Democrats and Republicans on presidential approval of Obama in 2012.

    The USA is more polarised than ever
  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,172

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    2020 Covid deaths may only be 10 times 2020 gun deaths!

    *smallest 'yay' in the universe*
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,311

    I've just noticed that the Economist prediction for the Electoral College doesn't seem to account for Maine and Nebraska awarding Electoral College votes by Congressional District.

    Although unlikely, there are some scenarios where Trump winning ME-2 is enough to make the difference. Thought it was worth pointing out.

    Good spot. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it?
    I can imagine the meeting where it was discussed, and they decided to set up a 50-state (+DC) version first, and add the complication of Maine/Nebraska later. And then everyone forgot.

    It does make you wonder what other details have been missed that aren't visible.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    Some people think the government has a responsibility to make the roads safer, to control and reduce gun violence, to address cancer, to ensure building safety for stairs etc

    Did you know that in 1940 one person died on the road for every 200 cars on the road in the UK?

    Did you know that figure is now fewer than one in every 20,000 cars on the road?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,172
    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    A slightly worrying growth on the side of my nose has entirely disappeared.

    Apart from that..
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited July 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he is being borught in to persuade dubious conservative MPs why some rather unpalatable measure being introduced is absolutely necessary.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    algarkirk said:

    At the very least, the gov't is lifting the lockdown at a time deaths have never been lower (since lockdown).
    As Panarama will show tonight hospitals now have to get back to normal and start treating people with other illnesses
    There is an absolutely foreseeable scandal on the way, perhaps next year, when the BBC and Guardian together with the popular press start highlighting dying people who were not properly diagnosed/referred by GPs between March and July (and after) because millions of people who should have been seen were talked to over the phone, and thousands who were referred were dealt with likewise by consultants.

    I personally know of cases where it is obvious that someone should have been looked at but was not. In most cases (99%?) of course it will be OK. But 1% of a million is 10,000 people - and that's enough to keep the press and media going for months.

    At that point people may stop clapping the NHS quite so loudly. SKS will be missing an opening if he is unqualified in his support for the medics.
    Exactly, I have been saying this for weeks. The NHS is so under used at the moment, doctors and nurses are going to work and are doing nothing (my wife and daughter are both nurses) There are hundreds of closed wards and sick people are not being seen.

    The biggest culprits are local surgeries. They are still locked up and people think they are closed and those that try to get an appointment with a GP are told to go and see the pharmacist. It really is terrible what is going on.
    Given that a significant number of community pharmacists are BAME, especially SE Asian, that could be risky.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    MrEd said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    We can fly what ever flag we want - do you think the countries/states that currently have the Union flag as part of their flag are going to change theirs? It's a strong brand. Keep it.

    The Czech Republic kept the flag of Czechoslovakia. There's no reason the United Kingdom of England and Wales could not cling to the butcher's apron if they wanted.
    It would be akin to a divorced husband continuing to wear his wedding ring, long after his wife had left him and the marriage had been dissolved.

    It would be incredibly sad and pathetic.
    Happens quite a lot though.
    However I'm assured by certain parties below that hubby wouldn't want faithless bitch Scotland back.
    Quick question - if the Border Counties and Orkney and Shetland both stated they wanted to remain part of the UK after a Yes vote, what would be your view?

    Not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely interested in how it would be viewed.
    The question or similar has come up quite a few times over the years and my answer has always been the same: if these counties want to organise a party that could get sufficient support for a referendum (eg get an msp elected) on the issue they should certainly be allowed to have one.

    There was an O&S independence party but afaik it dissolved like snow of a dyke several years ago.
    They'd need the approval of the Scottish parliament to hold a vote?
    We're in the realms of hypothetical bolleaux, so if you've an alternative scenario please feel free to indulge in it.
    Seeking the break up of Scotland - or indeed England - is every bit as legitimate as seeking the break up of the UK. There is likely to have been so much inter marriage over the centuries that a significant proportion will now feel only partially Scottish , Welsh or English.
    Of course given the Scottish borders would almost certainly vote strongly No to independence if Yes won indyref2 in the next decade then it is possible it could push to stay in the UK with England and Wales and Northern Ireland much as Scotland pushed to stay in the EU when the UK as a whole voted Leave
    You’re right. Northumberland should attempt to join an Independent Scotland.
    Of course not given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK
    By your logic Scotland and London should still be in the EU.
    And it is also interesting HYUFD accepts that there will be a referendum, and one won by the SNP and its allies, before the next UK general election. Which is a refreshing shift to democracy and [edit] fairness.
    No I don't, I said in the next decade.

    It was based on a PM Starmer granting an indyref after being elected PM in 2024 to an SNP majority at Holyrood and if Yes won it, the Tories will of course block indyref2 regardless until then
    The next decade starts in six months’ time.
    It covers 2020 to 2030, so does not end until after 2 more general elections
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,251
    edited July 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Starkey has apologised.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/breaking-david-starkey-apologises-horrific-22309875#comments-section

    Whether it's 'good enough' is left an an exercise for the reader I suppose as ever.

    Clicked for a look see and it went straight to a piece on penis size.

    So I'm none the wiser - about Starkey's apology.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Sorry to hear that, Lady G.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    May have major an impact or it may not.

    Supreme Court Allows States to Prohibit ‘Faithless’ Presidential Electors

    Justices rule that states can prohibit their presidential electors from breaking ranks and supporting someone other than the candidate chosen by voters in their state.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/supreme-court-allows-states-to-prohibit-faithless-presidential-electors-11594045181
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,310
    Pulpstar said:

    Starkey has apologised.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/breaking-david-starkey-apologises-horrific-22309875#comments-section

    Whether it's 'good enough' is left an an exercise for the reader I suppose as ever.

    I wonder if he reads PB, as that's pretty much the excuse I concocted for him - 'damn' was meant to be attached to the notion he regarded as foolish rather than the members of the black population.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    edited July 2020
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    MrEd said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    We can fly what ever flag we want - do you think the countries/states that currently have the Union flag as part of their flag are going to change theirs? It's a strong brand. Keep it.

    The Czech Republic kept the flag of Czechoslovakia. There's no reason the United Kingdom of England and Wales could not cling to the butcher's apron if they wanted.
    It would be akin to a divorced husband continuing to wear his wedding ring, long after his wife had left him and the marriage had been dissolved.

    It would be incredibly sad and pathetic.
    Happens quite a lot though.
    However I'm assured by certain parties below that hubby wouldn't want faithless bitch Scotland back.
    Quick question - if the Border Counties and Orkney and Shetland both stated they wanted to remain part of the UK after a Yes vote, what would be your view?

    Not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely interested in how it would be viewed.
    The question or similar has come up quite a few times over the years and my answer has always been the same: if these counties want to organise a party that could get sufficient support for a referendum (eg get an msp elected) on the issue they should certainly be allowed to have one.

    There was an O&S independence party but afaik it dissolved like snow of a dyke several years ago.
    They'd need the approval of the Scottish parliament to hold a vote?
    We're in the realms of hypothetical bolleaux, so if you've an alternative scenario please feel free to indulge in it.
    Seeking the break up of Scotland - or indeed England - is every bit as legitimate as seeking the break up of the UK. There is likely to have been so much inter marriage over the centuries that a significant proportion will now feel only partially Scottish , Welsh or English.
    Of course given the Scottish borders would almost certainly vote strongly No to independence if Yes won indyref2 in the next decade then it is possible it could push to stay in the UK with England and Wales and Northern Ireland much as Scotland pushed to stay in the EU when the UK as a whole voted Leave
    You’re right. Northumberland should attempt to join an Independent Scotland.
    Of course not given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK
    By your logic Scotland and London should still be in the EU.
    And it is also interesting HYUFD accepts that there will be a referendum, and one won by the SNP and its allies, before the next UK general election. Which is a refreshing shift to democracy and [edit] fairness.
    No I don't, I said in the next decade.

    It was based on a PM Starmer granting an indyref after being elected PM in 2024 to an SNP majority at Holyrood and Yes winning it, the Tories will of course block indyref2 regardless until then
    You said "given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK". That means the current Parliament. That means before the next GE.
    No it doesn't, even from 2001 to 2017 the Tories won MPs in the Scottish Borders and Dumfries and Galloway and in the 2014 referendum the Scottish Borders local authority area voted 67% No, 12% higher than the Scottish average No vote and Dumfries and Galloway voted 66% No, 11% higher than the Scottish average
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    RobD said:
    What needs melted down is the policy. Scottish Universities have only managed to thrive on the back of English student's money cross subsidising Scottish students and the Scottish government. If that is now restricted Edinburgh, Glasgow, St Andrews and Heriot Watt are going to be in desperate trouble with large scale redundancies and loss of capability.
    When you compare Scottish and English Universities nowadays it's remarkable how poor the Scottish Unis seem to look..

    The £9250 every English student brings does mean that the English Unis have seriously upped their offerings..
    Edinburgh and Glasgow have kept up there by substantially increasing the number of foreign students paying £21k a year and English students paying £9250 whilst holding the number of Scottish students static. But that business model is wholly dependent upon the enterprise of turning education into an export service and the hidden subsidy that Scotland has been reluctant to acknowledge from England. St Andrews, Aberdeen, Dundee and Heriot Watt have been less successful although Dundee has brought in a lot of money through the Welcome Trust. The rest are struggling to match the level that used to be offered by your average technical college.

    Not having fees in Scotland has taken one of our great strengths and turned it into a weakness but there is no chance of this being acknowledged or changed when a referendum is being discussed.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Remember that "Ventilator Challenge was Rubbish"?

    https://twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1279776282549587968?s=20

    How is the EU's production doing?
    I suspect (companies inside) the EU have been producing quite a lot of ventilators: Firstly, there are a lot of medical equipment companies in the bloc (from the very large, such as Philips) to hundreds of smaller firms. Secondly, this is the kind of light manufacturing that thrives in Germany, Italy and Eastern Europe.
    That's different to the EU scheme, however.
    The EU procurement scheme has somewhat lost its relevance because the curve of infection has been flattened that much, and the medical profession has learned that ventilation should only be used as the very last resort.

    That doesn't necessarily mean that the idea was wrong.
    It was an overly bureaucratic scheme at a time when speed was necessary. The vaccine scheme will have the same issues. National governments are better equipped to handle emergencies.
    Agreed 100%

    Some people fallaciously believe "bigger is better" then don't exercise any thinking beyond that.

    If bigger was better then Donald Trump would be having a great pandemic. Hint: He's not.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,760
    Raab has had a good couple of weeks - BNO Passports and now this Magnitsky Bill - Tugendhat asking "why no China?"
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,311
    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    Starmer became leader of the Labour Party. If the next few years don't go well for him this would be the pinnacle of his political career.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Remember that "Ventilator Challenge was Rubbish"?

    https://twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1279776282549587968?s=20

    How is the EU's production doing?
    I suspect (companies inside) the EU have been producing quite a lot of ventilators: Firstly, there are a lot of medical equipment companies in the bloc (from the very large, such as Philips) to hundreds of smaller firms. Secondly, this is the kind of light manufacturing that thrives in Germany, Italy and Eastern Europe.
    That's different to the EU scheme, however.
    Agreed. I have no idea whether the EU scheme was a success or not. However, I suspect that (a) ventilator capacity has been broadly OK in both the UK and the EU, and (b) the EU scheme was a waste of time at best, an active distraction at worst.

    I said at the time that history would be the guide: if we did noticeably worse than the EU for hospital deaths, due to lack of ventilator capacity, then we could regard our staying out of the scheme as a mistake.

    I suspect, and I could be wrong, that the UK government will not be criticised for its ventilator policy, but did make three - albeit large - missteps:

    1. Returning people with CV-19 to care homes
    2. Not stopping incoming flights
    2. Locking down about a week later than they should have done
    4. Masks.
    5. Abandoning contact tracing.
    And taking an absolute bloody age to resurrect it when it became obvious that that was the only rational way out of lockdown.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited July 2020

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    Some people think the government has a responsibility to make the roads safer, to control and reduce gun violence, to address cancer, to ensure building safety for stairs etc

    Did you know that in 1940 one person died on the road for every 200 cars on the road in the UK?

    Did you know that figure is now fewer than one in every 20,000 cars on the road?
    Its quite amazing how all that has been achieved without ever, ever involving mandatory house arrest, mass unemployment, the worst recession in 300 years, spiralling debt and a mental health crisis.

    Its almost as if those things at best don;t work and at worst are completely counterproductive.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    I've launched a revolutionary auto insurance business that's doing really well.

    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    I've managed to get the basics of piano playing down.

    I've dramatically increased my cooking repertoire.

    But that's been offset by having an unbelievably disruptive and awful young dog.

    And I've missed seeing my friends, and going out to restaurants.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited July 2020

    I've just noticed that the Economist prediction for the Electoral College doesn't seem to account for Maine and Nebraska awarding Electoral College votes by Congressional District.

    Although unlikely, there are some scenarios where Trump winning ME-2 is enough to make the difference. Thought it was worth pointing out.

    Good spot. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it?
    I can imagine the meeting where it was discussed, and they decided to set up a 50-state (+DC) version first, and add the complication of Maine/Nebraska later. And then everyone forgot.

    It does make you wonder what other details have been missed that aren't visible.
    I have fond memories of NE2. In 2008, I'd only just started betting on politics, and didn't know much about the details of US elections, but I was learning from reading on here and on US websites.

    Once most of the results were in, the Betfair band markets were still open because they were waiting on one more battleground state result to come in, but also NE2 hadn't been finalised. This was a few days after the election. Indications came through that NE2 was going to Obama, and I realised that this was enough to flip the result into the next Betfair band irrespective of the other result. So I kept betting on it, and someone on Betfair kept laying the bets. But I knew I was a rookie bettor so I was a bit cautious, not being absolutely certain that I'd understood correctly. I came on here to ask others, but no-one seemed to understand what I was saying.

    So, in the end, NE2 added a couple of hundred quid to my profit, but it could have been more if I'd been more confident of my assessment.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    MrEd said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    We can fly what ever flag we want - do you think the countries/states that currently have the Union flag as part of their flag are going to change theirs? It's a strong brand. Keep it.

    The Czech Republic kept the flag of Czechoslovakia. There's no reason the United Kingdom of England and Wales could not cling to the butcher's apron if they wanted.
    It would be akin to a divorced husband continuing to wear his wedding ring, long after his wife had left him and the marriage had been dissolved.

    It would be incredibly sad and pathetic.
    Happens quite a lot though.
    However I'm assured by certain parties below that hubby wouldn't want faithless bitch Scotland back.
    Quick question - if the Border Counties and Orkney and Shetland both stated they wanted to remain part of the UK after a Yes vote, what would be your view?

    Not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely interested in how it would be viewed.
    The question or similar has come up quite a few times over the years and my answer has always been the same: if these counties want to organise a party that could get sufficient support for a referendum (eg get an msp elected) on the issue they should certainly be allowed to have one.

    There was an O&S independence party but afaik it dissolved like snow of a dyke several years ago.
    They'd need the approval of the Scottish parliament to hold a vote?
    We're in the realms of hypothetical bolleaux, so if you've an alternative scenario please feel free to indulge in it.
    Seeking the break up of Scotland - or indeed England - is every bit as legitimate as seeking the break up of the UK. There is likely to have been so much inter marriage over the centuries that a significant proportion will now feel only partially Scottish , Welsh or English.
    Of course given the Scottish borders would almost certainly vote strongly No to independence if Yes won indyref2 in the next decade then it is possible it could push to stay in the UK with England and Wales and Northern Ireland much as Scotland pushed to stay in the EU when the UK as a whole voted Leave
    You’re right. Northumberland should attempt to join an Independent Scotland.
    Of course not given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK
    By your logic Scotland and London should still be in the EU.
    And it is also interesting HYUFD accepts that there will be a referendum, and one won by the SNP and its allies, before the next UK general election. Which is a refreshing shift to democracy and [edit] fairness.
    No I don't, I said in the next decade.

    It was based on a PM Starmer granting an indyref after being elected PM in 2024 to an SNP majority at Holyrood and Yes winning it, the Tories will of course block indyref2 regardless until then
    You said "given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK". That means the current Parliament. That means before the next GE.
    No it doesn't, even from 2001 to 2015 the Tories won MPs in the Scottish Borders and Dumfries and Galloway and in the 2014 referendum the Scottish Borders local authority area voted 67% No, 12% higher than the Scottish average No vote and Dumfries and Galloway voted 66% No, 11% higher than the Scottish average
    For heaven's sake, look at your own language. It is in the present tense. You are clearly not talking about 2015, or the Battle of Athelstaneford, or ther day before the heat death of the universe. You are talking about 6 July 2020.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starkey has apologised.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/breaking-david-starkey-apologises-horrific-22309875#comments-section

    Whether it's 'good enough' is left an an exercise for the reader I suppose as ever.

    Clicked for a look see and it went straight to a piece on penis size.

    So I'm none the wiser - about Starkey's apology.
    That'll be your lack of an adblocker. And previous clicks/searches.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347

    algarkirk said:

    At the very least, the gov't is lifting the lockdown at a time deaths have never been lower (since lockdown).
    As Panarama will show tonight hospitals now have to get back to normal and start treating people with other illnesses
    There is an absolutely foreseeable scandal on the way, perhaps next year, when the BBC and Guardian together with the popular press start highlighting dying people who were not properly diagnosed/referred by GPs between March and July (and after) because millions of people who should have been seen were talked to over the phone, and thousands who were referred were dealt with likewise by consultants.

    I personally know of cases where it is obvious that someone should have been looked at but was not. In most cases (99%?) of course it will be OK. But 1% of a million is 10,000 people - and that's enough to keep the press and media going for months.

    At that point people may stop clapping the NHS quite so loudly. SKS will be missing an opening if he is unqualified in his support for the medics.
    Exactly, I have been saying this for weeks. The NHS is so under used at the moment, doctors and nurses are going to work and are doing nothing (my wife and daughter are both nurses) There are hundreds of closed wards and sick people are not being seen.

    The biggest culprits are local surgeries. They are still locked up and people think they are closed and those that try to get an appointment with a GP are told to go and see the pharmacist. It really is terrible what is going on.
    Given that a significant number of community pharmacists are BAME, especially SE Asian, that could be risky.
    The worst thing is for months GPs have just sat around doing nothing, with their receptionists instructed to tell people to go away. And everyone went out on Thursday to clap them.
  • Options
    What will BoE Governor say to the 1922?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    Some people think the government has a responsibility to make the roads safer, to control and reduce gun violence, to address cancer, to ensure building safety for stairs etc

    Did you know that in 1940 one person died on the road for every 200 cars on the road in the UK?

    Did you know that figure is now fewer than one in every 20,000 cars on the road?
    Are you one of those people ?
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    I've launched a revolutionary auto insurance business that's doing really well.

    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    I've managed to get the basics of piano playing down.

    I've dramatically increased my cooking repertoire.

    But that's been offset by having an unbelievably disruptive and awful young dog.

    And I've missed seeing my friends, and going out to restaurants.
    I've used the money I have saved on commuting and working in central london to help make some very nice upgrades to our home. I'm also growing potatoes and rapsberries.

    On the downside I have bought and consumed some very good speyside malt whiskies.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    What will BoE Governor say to the 1922?

    "We can't print money forever, better get ready for being very unpopular."
  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    A slightly worrying growth on the side of my nose has entirely disappeared.

    Apart from that..
    Well, it's something.

    Looking out at all my friends and family I can only think of one person who has seen her life improve (for personal reasons I shan't discuss)

    Other than that EVERYONE I know has suffered in some way, directly or indirectly, from covid and its consequences. And some have suffered very badly.

    This is unprecedented. It really is like a big nasty war.

    I remember watching this now-famous video in late Feb. When this financial analyst expressed his deep forebodings about the virus. It's worth watching to the end.

    https://twitter.com/BloombergTV/status/1233113560265478144?s=20
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    MrEd said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    We can fly what ever flag we want - do you think the countries/states that currently have the Union flag as part of their flag are going to change theirs? It's a strong brand. Keep it.

    The Czech Republic kept the flag of Czechoslovakia. There's no reason the United Kingdom of England and Wales could not cling to the butcher's apron if they wanted.
    It would be akin to a divorced husband continuing to wear his wedding ring, long after his wife had left him and the marriage had been dissolved.

    It would be incredibly sad and pathetic.
    Happens quite a lot though.
    However I'm assured by certain parties below that hubby wouldn't want faithless bitch Scotland back.
    Quick question - if the Border Counties and Orkney and Shetland both stated they wanted to remain part of the UK after a Yes vote, what would be your view?

    Not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely interested in how it would be viewed.
    The question or similar has come up quite a few times over the years and my answer has always been the same: if these counties want to organise a party that could get sufficient support for a referendum (eg get an msp elected) on the issue they should certainly be allowed to have one.

    There was an O&S independence party but afaik it dissolved like snow of a dyke several years ago.
    They'd need the approval of the Scottish parliament to hold a vote?
    We're in the realms of hypothetical bolleaux, so if you've an alternative scenario please feel free to indulge in it.
    Seeking the break up of Scotland - or indeed England - is every bit as legitimate as seeking the break up of the UK. There is likely to have been so much inter marriage over the centuries that a significant proportion will now feel only partially Scottish , Welsh or English.
    Of course given the Scottish borders would almost certainly vote strongly No to independence if Yes won indyref2 in the next decade then it is possible it could push to stay in the UK with England and Wales and Northern Ireland much as Scotland pushed to stay in the EU when the UK as a whole voted Leave
    You’re right. Northumberland should attempt to join an Independent Scotland.
    Of course not given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK
    By your logic Scotland and London should still be in the EU.
    And it is also interesting HYUFD accepts that there will be a referendum, and one won by the SNP and its allies, before the next UK general election. Which is a refreshing shift to democracy and [edit] fairness.
    No I don't, I said in the next decade.

    It was based on a PM Starmer granting an indyref after being elected PM in 2024 to an SNP majority at Holyrood and Yes winning it, the Tories will of course block indyref2 regardless until then
    You said "given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK". That means the current Parliament. That means before the next GE.
    If one goes back a thousand years or so the area now known as Dumfries and Galloway was part of a different kingdom Clud or Strathclyde depending on when one looks at it. The kingdom also include what is now Cumbria and part of Lancashire, down to, more or less, Lancaster.
    On the other side historic Northumbria extended from Edwins Burgh..... modern Edinburgh .... down the Trent.
    How far back do you want to go in deciding where the border should be?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,760
    edited July 2020
    IDS asks if the Magnitsky designations should be extended to Carrie Lam HK head.....which Chris Bryant has added his voice to......
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,251
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starkey has apologised.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/breaking-david-starkey-apologises-horrific-22309875#comments-section

    Whether it's 'good enough' is left an an exercise for the reader I suppose as ever.

    Clicked for a look see and it went straight to a piece on penis size.

    So I'm none the wiser - about Starkey's apology.
    That'll be your lack of an adblocker. And previous clicks/searches.
    No it was a Daily Mirror "article" - I have zero interest in such topics!

    I did, however, skim read it.

    Gosh.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    What will BoE Governor say to the 1922?

    1. We are bankrupt

    2. someone is gonna have to pay

    3. Its going to be your constituents

    4. There is no alternative
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    The lockdown has been financially pretty disastrous for me and will probably defer my retirement by a couple of years but having said that I have had 3 months now of 2 hour walks in the hills and country lanes by my house every day, I am less stressed (as long as I try hard not to think about money) than I have been for a long, long time and I suspect my health is better as a result. I suspect when I am back to running around like a blue arsed fly next year I might look back at this period with a certain fondness.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    MrEd said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    We can fly what ever flag we want - do you think the countries/states that currently have the Union flag as part of their flag are going to change theirs? It's a strong brand. Keep it.

    The Czech Republic kept the flag of Czechoslovakia. There's no reason the United Kingdom of England and Wales could not cling to the butcher's apron if they wanted.
    It would be akin to a divorced husband continuing to wear his wedding ring, long after his wife had left him and the marriage had been dissolved.

    It would be incredibly sad and pathetic.
    Happens quite a lot though.
    However I'm assured by certain parties below that hubby wouldn't want faithless bitch Scotland back.
    Quick question - if the Border Counties and Orkney and Shetland both stated they wanted to remain part of the UK after a Yes vote, what would be your view?

    Not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely interested in how it would be viewed.
    The question or similar has come up quite a few times over the years and my answer has always been the same: if these counties want to organise a party that could get sufficient support for a referendum (eg get an msp elected) on the issue they should certainly be allowed to have one.

    There was an O&S independence party but afaik it dissolved like snow of a dyke several years ago.
    They'd need the approval of the Scottish parliament to hold a vote?
    We're in the realms of hypothetical bolleaux, so if you've an alternative scenario please feel free to indulge in it.
    Seeking the break up of Scotland - or indeed England - is every bit as legitimate as seeking the break up of the UK. There is likely to have been so much inter marriage over the centuries that a significant proportion will now feel only partially Scottish , Welsh or English.
    Of course given the Scottish borders would almost certainly vote strongly No to independence if Yes won indyref2 in the next decade then it is possible it could push to stay in the UK with England and Wales and Northern Ireland much as Scotland pushed to stay in the EU when the UK as a whole voted Leave
    You’re right. Northumberland should attempt to join an Independent Scotland.
    Of course not given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK
    By your logic Scotland and London should still be in the EU.
    And it is also interesting HYUFD accepts that there will be a referendum, and one won by the SNP and its allies, before the next UK general election. Which is a refreshing shift to democracy and [edit] fairness.
    No I don't, I said in the next decade.

    It was based on a PM Starmer granting an indyref after being elected PM in 2024 to an SNP majority at Holyrood and Yes winning it, the Tories will of course block indyref2 regardless until then
    You said "given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK". That means the current Parliament. That means before the next GE.
    If one goes back a thousand years or so the area now known as Dumfries and Galloway was part of a different kingdom Clud or Strathclyde depending on when one looks at it. The kingdom also include what is now Cumbria and part of Lancashire, down to, more or less, Lancaster.
    On the other side historic Northumbria extended from Edwins Burgh..... modern Edinburgh .... down the Trent.
    How far back do you want to go in deciding where the border should be?
    Don't ask me, ask HYUFD - he was probably monitoring the political stats of the Votadini even before that. I'm the one stuck in the present.
  • Options
    Austerity 2.0 on the way
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    Some people think the government has a responsibility to make the roads safer, to control and reduce gun violence, to address cancer, to ensure building safety for stairs etc

    Did you know that in 1940 one person died on the road for every 200 cars on the road in the UK?

    Did you know that figure is now fewer than one in every 20,000 cars on the road?
    Its quite amazing how all that has been achieved without ever, ever involving mandatory house arrest, mass unemployment, the worst recession in 300 years, spiralling debt and a mental health crisis.

    Its almost as if those things at best don;t work and at worst are completely counterproductive.
    Actually quarantines and house arrest have been introduced in the past during pandemics and the economic evidence is that controlling a pandemic aids the economy more than letting a pandemic run wild.

    Even countries that haven't locked down are seeing deep recessions but there's aren't recovering as quickly as ours may be able to do so because the virus is still wild there.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    edited July 2020

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    MrEd said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    We can fly what ever flag we want - do you think the countries/states that currently have the Union flag as part of their flag are going to change theirs? It's a strong brand. Keep it.

    The Czech Republic kept the flag of Czechoslovakia. There's no reason the United Kingdom of England and Wales could not cling to the butcher's apron if they wanted.
    It would be akin to a divorced husband continuing to wear his wedding ring, long after his wife had left him and the marriage had been dissolved.

    It would be incredibly sad and pathetic.
    Happens quite a lot though.
    However I'm assured by certain parties below that hubby wouldn't want faithless bitch Scotland back.
    Quick question - if the Border Counties and Orkney and Shetland both stated they wanted to remain part of the UK after a Yes vote, what would be your view?

    Not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely interested in how it would be viewed.
    The question or similar has come up quite a few times over the years and my answer has always been the same: if these counties want to organise a party that could get sufficient support for a referendum (eg get an msp elected) on the issue they should certainly be allowed to have one.

    There was an O&S independence party but afaik it dissolved like snow of a dyke several years ago.
    They'd need the approval of the Scottish parliament to hold a vote?
    We're in the realms of hypothetical bolleaux, so if you've an alternative scenario please feel free to indulge in it.
    Seeking the break up of Scotland - or indeed England - is every bit as legitimate as seeking the break up of the UK. There is likely to have been so much inter marriage over the centuries that a significant proportion will now feel only partially Scottish , Welsh or English.
    Of course given the Scottish borders would almost certainly vote strongly No to independence if Yes won indyref2 in the next decade then it is possible it could push to stay in the UK with England and Wales and Northern Ireland much as Scotland pushed to stay in the EU when the UK as a whole voted Leave
    You’re right. Northumberland should attempt to join an Independent Scotland.
    Of course not given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK
    By your logic Scotland and London should still be in the EU.
    And it is also interesting HYUFD accepts that there will be a referendum, and one won by the SNP and its allies, before the next UK general election. Which is a refreshing shift to democracy and [edit] fairness.
    No I don't, I said in the next decade.

    It was based on a PM Starmer granting an indyref after being elected PM in 2024 to an SNP majority at Holyrood and Yes winning it, the Tories will of course block indyref2 regardless until then
    You said "given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK". That means the current Parliament. That means before the next GE.
    If one goes back a thousand years or so the area now known as Dumfries and Galloway was part of a different kingdom Clud or Strathclyde depending on when one looks at it. The kingdom also include what is now Cumbria and part of Lancashire, down to, more or less, Lancaster.
    On the other side historic Northumbria extended from Edwins Burgh..... modern Edinburgh .... down the Trent.
    How far back do you want to go in deciding where the border should be?
    But also you deserve a courteous and rational response, and the correct reply would be that of 1707 which [erdit] is thatr of 2020 (as per the Acts and Treaty of Union, and the domain of Scots Law).
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    edited July 2020

    Austerity 2.0 on the way

    No way, this government is increasing spending more than any Tory government since Macmillan.

    Boris could not give a toss about the deficit
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    What stroke did you swim previously ?
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,544

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    But none of the things you mention are infectious, are they?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Austerity 2.0 on the way

    I doubt it. The roof was fixed before this recession thankfully.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited July 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starkey has apologised.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/breaking-david-starkey-apologises-horrific-22309875#comments-section

    Whether it's 'good enough' is left an an exercise for the reader I suppose as ever.

    Clicked for a look see and it went straight to a piece on penis size.

    So I'm none the wiser - about Starkey's apology.
    That'll be your lack of an adblocker. And previous clicks/searches.
    No it was a Daily Mirror "article" - I have zero interest in such topics!

    I did, however, skim read it.

    Gosh.
    No, you don't get it.

    You get ads like that because of cookies set in your browser. Google (usually is) puts in ads they think you'll like based on what you have clicked on before.

    AdGuard (my preferred blocker since it is open source) will block ads but also tracking of that nature.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    And the second biggest gap was the 86 point divide between Democrats and Republicans on presidential approval of Obama in 2012.

    The USA is more polarised than ever
    It's worth remembering there are more Independents now than ever, and that Independents now outnumber Republicans.

    Back in 1988, 40% of voters were registered Republicans, and 45% were registered Democrats.

    Now, those numbers are 28% registered Republicans, 31% Independents, 41% Democrats.

    That's a big increase in Independents, who are - by their very definition - not polarised.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    But none of the things you mention are infectious, are they?
    Maybe gun violence?
  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    The lockdown has been financially pretty disastrous for me and will probably defer my retirement by a couple of years but having said that I have had 3 months now of 2 hour walks in the hills and country lanes by my house every day, I am less stressed (as long as I try hard not to think about money) than I have been for a long, long time and I suspect my health is better as a result. I suspect when I am back to running around like a blue arsed fly next year I might look back at this period with a certain fondness.
    There was a period after the initial panic of lockdown when I was very contented, like you: taking long country walks, eating great, home cooked food, just enjoying being with my partner, reading excellent books, and we had that endless sun!

    There were golden moments of happiness, I shall miss them.

    However, taken in the whole, my own finances have taken a big hit, I've got friends who have fallen very ill, other friends are now losing jobs, I've seen mental health issues in my extended lockdown family, the economic health of the country and the world is depressingly bad, and the virus isn't done with us yet.

    In general, with a few exceptions, 2020 has been shite for me and mine
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    I've learned to swim breast stroke.
    Backstroke, butterfly and crawl next?

    Dog paddle then belly flop?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    Some people think the government has a responsibility to make the roads safer, to control and reduce gun violence, to address cancer, to ensure building safety for stairs etc

    Did you know that in 1940 one person died on the road for every 200 cars on the road in the UK?

    Did you know that figure is now fewer than one in every 20,000 cars on the road?
    Are you one of those people ?
    Within reason.

    For instance I think if you're driving on public roads the public has the right and duty to set rules for those roads.

    I think the government should set (and increase) minimum thresholds for safety and the environment then let the free market decide how to meet and exceed those thresholds.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    What stroke did you swim previously ?
    Front crawl. However my left big toe has started dislocating when I swim crawl, which is painful. So I needed to teach myself a new stroke which didn't have that problem.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,251
    edited July 2020
    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?

    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    I've discovered Morrisons and because of that Red Leicester flavour mini cheddars - a direct and positive impact on me of the pandemic.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    MrEd said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    We can fly what ever flag we want - do you think the countries/states that currently have the Union flag as part of their flag are going to change theirs? It's a strong brand. Keep it.

    The Czech Republic kept the flag of Czechoslovakia. There's no reason the United Kingdom of England and Wales could not cling to the butcher's apron if they wanted.
    It would be akin to a divorced husband continuing to wear his wedding ring, long after his wife had left him and the marriage had been dissolved.

    It would be incredibly sad and pathetic.
    Happens quite a lot though.
    However I'm assured by certain parties below that hubby wouldn't want faithless bitch Scotland back.
    Quick question - if the Border Counties and Orkney and Shetland both stated they wanted to remain part of the UK after a Yes vote, what would be your view?

    Not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely interested in how it would be viewed.
    The question or similar has come up quite a few times over the years and my answer has always been the same: if these counties want to organise a party that could get sufficient support for a referendum (eg get an msp elected) on the issue they should certainly be allowed to have one.

    There was an O&S independence party but afaik it dissolved like snow of a dyke several years ago.
    They'd need the approval of the Scottish parliament to hold a vote?
    We're in the realms of hypothetical bolleaux, so if you've an alternative scenario please feel free to indulge in it.
    Seeking the break up of Scotland - or indeed England - is every bit as legitimate as seeking the break up of the UK. There is likely to have been so much inter marriage over the centuries that a significant proportion will now feel only partially Scottish , Welsh or English.
    Of course given the Scottish borders would almost certainly vote strongly No to independence if Yes won indyref2 in the next decade then it is possible it could push to stay in the UK with England and Wales and Northern Ireland much as Scotland pushed to stay in the EU when the UK as a whole voted Leave
    You’re right. Northumberland should attempt to join an Independent Scotland.
    Of course not given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK
    By your logic Scotland and London should still be in the EU.
    And it is also interesting HYUFD accepts that there will be a referendum, and one won by the SNP and its allies, before the next UK general election. Which is a refreshing shift to democracy and [edit] fairness.
    No I don't, I said in the next decade.

    It was based on a PM Starmer granting an indyref after being elected PM in 2024 to an SNP majority at Holyrood and Yes winning it, the Tories will of course block indyref2 regardless until then
    You said "given every MP in Northumberland represents a Unionist Party and every seat in the Scottish Borders is held by the Tories both should stay in the UK". That means the current Parliament. That means before the next GE.
    If one goes back a thousand years or so the area now known as Dumfries and Galloway was part of a different kingdom Clud or Strathclyde depending on when one looks at it. The kingdom also include what is now Cumbria and part of Lancashire, down to, more or less, Lancaster.
    On the other side historic Northumbria extended from Edwins Burgh..... modern Edinburgh .... down the Trent.
    How far back do you want to go in deciding where the border should be?
    But also you deserve a courteous and rational response, and the correct reply would be that of 1707 which [erdit] is thatr of 2020 (as per the Acts and Treaty of Union, and the domain of Scots Law).
    Thank you. TBH that's what I think. If we look elsewhere in Europe borders are somewhat fluid. Compare, for example, a map of modern Germany with one of Germany just prior to WWI.
    And the borders of Poland and Lithuania have twitched more than some peoples net curtains.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,772
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starkey has apologised.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/breaking-david-starkey-apologises-horrific-22309875#comments-section

    Whether it's 'good enough' is left an an exercise for the reader I suppose as ever.

    Clicked for a look see and it went straight to a piece on penis size.

    So I'm none the wiser - about Starkey's apology.
    That'll be your lack of an adblocker. And previous clicks/searches.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w6ebKnI7l0
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    But none of the things you mention are infectious, are they?
    Maybe not but for people under 80 without at least two co-morbidities, they are certainly more threatening to life and limb.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,556
    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    I am sorry to say that in all sorts of ways I have enjoyed myself immensely. With the abolition of pointless meetings and many other time wasting things there has been loads more time to do things from eating ice cream to reading Proust (don't take too much of either of these in one go).

    I bet millions of people have loved it, and are fairly unwilling to say so, quite understandably. After all we are all supposed to be dying to get back to work.

  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,992

    Austerity 2.0 on the way

    I doubt it. The roof was fixed before this recession thankfully.
    If you say so - there was a fair number of stupid decisions in the April Budget that people didn't pick up on - the LHA increases were a prime example...
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,251
    edited July 2020

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starkey has apologised.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/breaking-david-starkey-apologises-horrific-22309875#comments-section

    Whether it's 'good enough' is left an an exercise for the reader I suppose as ever.

    Clicked for a look see and it went straight to a piece on penis size.

    So I'm none the wiser - about Starkey's apology.
    That'll be your lack of an adblocker. And previous clicks/searches.
    No it was a Daily Mirror "article" - I have zero interest in such topics!

    I did, however, skim read it.

    Gosh.
    No, you don't get it.

    You get ads like that because of cookies set in your browser. Google (usually is) puts in ads they think you'll like based on what you have clicked on before.

    AdGuard (my preferred blocker since it is open source) will block ads but also tracking of that nature.
    It wasn't an ad. Honest guv.

    My clicks are more wholesome than Little House On The Prairie.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    And the second biggest gap was the 86 point divide between Democrats and Republicans on presidential approval of Obama in 2012.

    The USA is more polarised than ever
    It's worth remembering there are more Independents now than ever, and that Independents now outnumber Republicans.

    Back in 1988, 40% of voters were registered Republicans, and 45% were registered Democrats.

    Now, those numbers are 28% registered Republicans, 31% Independents, 41% Democrats.

    That's a big increase in Independents, who are - by their very definition - not polarised.
    Interesting that the rise in independents has come almost exclusively from the Republicans.

    Albeit there will have been churn in who those voters are but having said that . . .
    Thirty percent of Republicans have become Independents
    Nine percent of Democrats have become Independents

    That's a mammoth difference.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    LadyG said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    The lockdown has been financially pretty disastrous for me and will probably defer my retirement by a couple of years but having said that I have had 3 months now of 2 hour walks in the hills and country lanes by my house every day, I am less stressed (as long as I try hard not to think about money) than I have been for a long, long time and I suspect my health is better as a result. I suspect when I am back to running around like a blue arsed fly next year I might look back at this period with a certain fondness.
    There was a period after the initial panic of lockdown when I was very contented, like you: taking long country walks, eating great, home cooked food, just enjoying being with my partner, reading excellent books, and we had that endless sun!

    There were golden moments of happiness, I shall miss them.

    However, taken in the whole, my own finances have taken a big hit, I've got friends who have fallen very ill, other friends are now losing jobs, I've seen mental health issues in my extended lockdown family, the economic health of the country and the world is depressingly bad, and the virus isn't done with us yet.

    In general, with a few exceptions, 2020 has been shite for me and mine
    I was trying to think of something positive. There are lots of negatives.

    We have been struggling with the mental health of a close family member. The lockdown and lack of contact with friends really didn't help.

    My son was supposed to be sitting his Highers this year. Although he will get 5 As from the Education authority he has lost a chance to shine that he will never have again and risks that being lost in rampant grade inflation.

    He's also missed out on a series of open days that we were going to this summer. Virtual open days really aren't cutting it.

    My poor wife has been getting driven demented by never having any time in our house to herself.

    A good friend has been diagnosed with terminal cancer and his chemo etc have been complicated by lockdown. Him apart, however, the curse of Rona has passed me by. I know 2 people who got it, one severe but both fully recovered.

  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,544

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    But none of the things you mention are infectious, are they?
    Maybe gun violence?
    If you're right, and you may be for the USA, then the solution to that infectious virus would be to ban the private ownership of guns, wouldn't it? Rather than let the gun virus rip, as Contrarian would seem to prefer.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    What stroke did you swim previously ?
    Front crawl. However my left big toe has started dislocating when I swim crawl, which is painful. So I needed to teach myself a new stroke which didn't have that problem.
    You must have been swimming ILLEGALLY as pools and lidos have been shut through lockdown.

    Just hope ed Davey doesn't read this site.
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    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    algarkirk said:

    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    I am sorry to say that in all sorts of ways I have enjoyed myself immensely. With the abolition of pointless meetings and many other time wasting things there has been loads more time to do things from eating ice cream to reading Proust (don't take too much of either of these in one go).

    I bet millions of people have loved it, and are fairly unwilling to say so, quite understandably. After all we are all supposed to be dying to get back to work.

    Several of my friends were like that.... and then in the last couple of weeks they lost their jobs, and the golden lockdown haze faded very quickly.

    I hope yours is safe!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    What stroke did you swim previously ?
    Front crawl. However my left big toe has started dislocating when I swim crawl, which is painful. So I needed to teach myself a new stroke which didn't have that problem.
    You must have been swimming ILLEGALLY as pools and lidos have been shut through lockdown.

    Just hope ed Davey doesn't read this site.
    Not necessarily. There's this big pool of salty water called the "sea".

    And there are lakes and rivers too.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    But none of the things you mention are infectious, are they?
    Maybe gun violence?
    If you're right, and you may be for the USA, then the solution to that infectious virus would be to ban the private ownership of guns, wouldn't it? Rather than let the gun virus rip, as Contrarian would seem to prefer.
    Gun control is one area where I depart from my normally libertarian principles.

    I accept gun control as logical and necessary in the same way I accept its not a good idea to allow the public access to WMDs.

    Its illiberal but it is what it is.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,251
    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    You must have your OWN pool then!
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,992

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    What stroke did you swim previously ?
    Front crawl. However my left big toe has started dislocating when I swim crawl, which is painful. So I needed to teach myself a new stroke which didn't have that problem.
    You must have been swimming ILLEGALLY as pools and lidos have been shut through lockdown.

    Just hope ed Davey doesn't read this site.
    rcs1000 is currently in California (LA from memory but that bit could be wrong)
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    What stroke did you swim previously ?
    Front crawl. However my left big toe has started dislocating when I swim crawl, which is painful. So I needed to teach myself a new stroke which didn't have that problem.
    You must have been swimming ILLEGALLY as pools and lidos have been shut through lockdown.

    Just hope ed Davey doesn't read this site.
    Not necessarily. There's this big pool of salty water called the "sea".

    And there are lakes and rivers too.
    And I thought rcs lived in America?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    You must have your OWN pool then!
    Interesting you and I came to quite different conclusions ... what does that say about us
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,898

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    But none of the things you mention are infectious, are they?
    Indeed if the government does nothing about car crashes, you do not get exponential growth in the number of car crashes.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    But none of the things you mention are infectious, are they?
    Maybe gun violence?
    If you're right, and you may be for the USA, then the solution to that infectious virus would be to ban the private ownership of guns, wouldn't it? Rather than let the gun virus rip, as Contrarian would seem to prefer.
    Given that guns probably kill more Americans than covid who are not over 80 with two co-mobidities, you are maybe correct in saying gun control should be a higher priority than the virus for the American government
  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    The lockdown has been financially pretty disastrous for me and will probably defer my retirement by a couple of years but having said that I have had 3 months now of 2 hour walks in the hills and country lanes by my house every day, I am less stressed (as long as I try hard not to think about money) than I have been for a long, long time and I suspect my health is better as a result. I suspect when I am back to running around like a blue arsed fly next year I might look back at this period with a certain fondness.
    There was a period after the initial panic of lockdown when I was very contented, like you: taking long country walks, eating great, home cooked food, just enjoying being with my partner, reading excellent books, and we had that endless sun!

    There were golden moments of happiness, I shall miss them.

    However, taken in the whole, my own finances have taken a big hit, I've got friends who have fallen very ill, other friends are now losing jobs, I've seen mental health issues in my extended lockdown family, the economic health of the country and the world is depressingly bad, and the virus isn't done with us yet.

    In general, with a few exceptions, 2020 has been shite for me and mine
    I was trying to think of something positive. There are lots of negatives.

    We have been struggling with the mental health of a close family member. The lockdown and lack of contact with friends really didn't help.

    My son was supposed to be sitting his Highers this year. Although he will get 5 As from the Education authority he has lost a chance to shine that he will never have again and risks that being lost in rampant grade inflation.

    He's also missed out on a series of open days that we were going to this summer. Virtual open days really aren't cutting it.

    My poor wife has been getting driven demented by never having any time in our house to herself.

    A good friend has been diagnosed with terminal cancer and his chemo etc have been complicated by lockdown. Him apart, however, the curse of Rona has passed me by. I know 2 people who got it, one severe but both fully recovered.

    Your whole experience sounds quite similar to mine, down to the details.

    Apart from those who have actually suffered covid badly, or from diseases linked to it, it's the kids I feel for most. Millions of damaged educations, millions of kids confined unhappily at home. Grim.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501

    NEW THREAD

  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,829

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    Some people think the government has a responsibility to make the roads safer, to control and reduce gun violence, to address cancer, to ensure building safety for stairs etc

    Did you know that in 1940 one person died on the road for every 200 cars on the road in the UK?

    Did you know that figure is now fewer than one in every 20,000 cars on the road?
    I accept the general point holds, but there was a blackout in 1940.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    Austerity 2.0 on the way

    I doubt it. The roof was fixed before this recession thankfully.
    If you say so - there was a fair number of stupid decisions in the April Budget that people didn't pick up on - the LHA increases were a prime example...
    April was after the recession began.

    The deficit was closed from a peak of over 10% of GDP to just 1.2% in the final full year before the recession hit.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,251
    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    The lockdown has been financially pretty disastrous for me and will probably defer my retirement by a couple of years but having said that I have had 3 months now of 2 hour walks in the hills and country lanes by my house every day, I am less stressed (as long as I try hard not to think about money) than I have been for a long, long time and I suspect my health is better as a result. I suspect when I am back to running around like a blue arsed fly next year I might look back at this period with a certain fondness.
    There was a period after the initial panic of lockdown when I was very contented, like you: taking long country walks, eating great, home cooked food, just enjoying being with my partner, reading excellent books, and we had that endless sun!

    There were golden moments of happiness, I shall miss them.

    However, taken in the whole, my own finances have taken a big hit, I've got friends who have fallen very ill, other friends are now losing jobs, I've seen mental health issues in my extended lockdown family, the economic health of the country and the world is depressingly bad, and the virus isn't done with us yet.

    In general, with a few exceptions, 2020 has been shite for me and mine
    I was trying to think of something positive. There are lots of negatives.

    We have been struggling with the mental health of a close family member. The lockdown and lack of contact with friends really didn't help.

    My son was supposed to be sitting his Highers this year. Although he will get 5 As from the Education authority he has lost a chance to shine that he will never have again and risks that being lost in rampant grade inflation.

    He's also missed out on a series of open days that we were going to this summer. Virtual open days really aren't cutting it.

    My poor wife has been getting driven demented by never having any time in our house to herself.

    A good friend has been diagnosed with terminal cancer and his chemo etc have been complicated by lockdown. Him apart, however, the curse of Rona has passed me by. I know 2 people who got it, one severe but both fully recovered.
    I remember you (in very gloomy mood) posting at the start of this that we would most of us probably lose somebody close due to Covid-19. It was a striking comment which made me pause for thought at the time. So although it's been bad - and is not over yet - it's perhaps been not quite as bad as you were thinking back then.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,311

    Just like they live with all the other threats to human existence we haven;t shut down our lives for. Car crashes, gun violence cancer and falling down stairs amongst others.
    But none of the things you mention are infectious, are they?
    Maybe gun violence?
    If you're right, and you may be for the USA, then the solution to that infectious virus would be to ban the private ownership of guns, wouldn't it? Rather than let the gun virus rip, as Contrarian would seem to prefer.
    I think that a licensing system, with the sale of guns to unlicensed individuals banned, and where people with criminal convictions for violence lost their gun license, would make a big difference and have a chance of being compatible with the Second Amendment.

    The US isn't going to accept UK-level bans on firearms.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    I've been able to cut back on quite a lot of expenses. We bought some petrol ten days ago; first since early March. And we wouldn't have needed to do that if we hadn't been allowed out of lockdown to visit Eldest Son and his family. Takeway 'restaurant' meals are cheaper than in house, and so is the wine to go with them. Wife hasn't wandered round the shops either; we're not great ones for shopping on line so that's been a net saving. Got used to using Zoom and similar systems too, which has improved communications with those some distance away at the expense of those closer by, who we would have 'actually' seen.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,206
    I guess at least they have found the cases. and so can isolate. Contrast to March...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    What stroke did you swim previously ?
    Front crawl. However my left big toe has started dislocating when I swim crawl, which is painful. So I needed to teach myself a new stroke which didn't have that problem.
    You must have been swimming ILLEGALLY as pools and lidos have been shut through lockdown.

    Just hope ed Davey doesn't read this site.
    He probably has his own pool. ;)
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,251
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    You must have your OWN pool then!
    Interesting you and I came to quite different conclusions ... what does that say about us
    :smile: - that I move in the sort of circles that have pools?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:


    I've learned to swim breast stroke.

    You must have your OWN pool then!
    Interesting you and I came to quite different conclusions ... what does that say about us
    :smile: - that I move in the sort of circles that have pools?
    Or live somewhere warmer ...
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,966
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Has anyone had a "good" 2020?

    ie a year when things, for them, have got demonstrably better?


    There must be people out there who have fallen in love. got a great new job, made a brilliant friend, sold paintings of newts for £50k

    A slightly worrying growth on the side of my nose has entirely disappeared.

    Apart from that..
    Well, it's something.

    Looking out at all my friends and family I can only think of one person who has seen her life improve (for personal reasons I shan't discuss)

    Other than that EVERYONE I know has suffered in some way, directly or indirectly, from covid and its consequences. And some have suffered very badly.

    This is unprecedented. It really is like a big nasty war.

    I remember watching this now-famous video in late Feb. When this financial analyst expressed his deep forebodings about the virus. It's worth watching to the end.

    https://twitter.com/BloombergTV/status/1233113560265478144?s=20
    Got to say I have had a very good lockdown. Work has continued as before but the big difference is I have been able to do everything completely from home rather than making trips to Aberdeen for meetings. The lack of vehicles for a couple of months made the meadows a real heavenly place to walk and study and I have had my family around me which has made things even better. A lot of the commitments I have to social and charity work have been suspended which has given me more time for doing stuff for myself.

    The downside was limited access to my mother which has been tough but overall it has been great for me.

    The big proviso of course is that this is not over yet and both the virus and the economic fallout could still cause me irreparable harm but at this moment I would say I have certainly had a good armageddon.
This discussion has been closed.