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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Very interesting paper which confirm the argument that speed and frequency of testing is more important than absolute accuracy for controlling infection.

    https://twitter.com/michaelmina_lab/status/1276275112082358274
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    If a business deal needs drinks on a yacht to clinch it, it is probably not much of a deal. Good deals are signed off wherever.

    Of course by the time any new Yacht exists, it is more than likely that Charles will be on the throne too. I expect he will like a bit of sea time.
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    edited June 2020
    A court in Queens, New York, has dismissed the application by Donald Trump's brother Robert for a temporary order blocking the publication of their niece Mary's book, Too Much and Not Enough: How My Family Created the World's Most Dangerous Man. Release is scheduled for 28 July.

    Last matched price for Mike Pence getting the Republican nomination for WH2020 at the convention was 23.

    The judge cited lack of jurisdiction. Robert Trump's attorney says they will refile in Manhattan.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728
    Andrew said:

    Fox: Biden +9 in FLA, +2 in GA and NC, +1 in ..... Texas.

    I think the problem for Trump, and the Republicans by proxy as neither are obvious things they can break with Trump over is the simultaneous confluence of two issues that harm him in very different ways and gee up his opponents. The terrible way he is handling the pandemic is clearly harming him with independents and soft Republicans who just want the drama to stop even if it means some policies they don't like. On the otherhand the George Floyd aftermath has totally motivated the Democrat base and put those unenthusiastic about Biden the man, firmly in his column. One or the other. Trump probably is still in ok electoral college shape, albeit with a tougher ask than against Hillary due to Biden being more liked in the mid-west. The pandemic maybe loses Trump votes but still keeps the Democrats divided. BLM unites them but maybe puts off some older 'leave us all alone' independents. Together the two are toxic - but with the caveat that news cycles can turn - so really a poor run of news for Biden and good bits for Trump could make it really competitive again.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Andrew said:

    Fox: Biden +9 in FLA, +2 in GA and NC, +1 in ..... Texas.

    Playing into his tiny hands
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    If a business deal needs drinks on a yacht to clinch it, it is probably not much of a deal. Good deals are signed off wherever.

    Of course by the time any new Yacht exists, it is more than likely that Charles will be on the throne too. I expect he will like a bit of sea time.
    That sounds all well and good in principle, but in practise, people are people.

    As for the likelihood of the Queen still reigning, you may be right, though I expect any new yacht would be a refit, not a new build.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    If a business deal needs drinks on a yacht to clinch it, it is probably not much of a deal. Good deals are signed off wherever.

    Of course by the time any new Yacht exists, it is more than likely that Charles will be on the throne too. I expect he will like a bit of sea time.
    You obviously have a lot of experience in the matter
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    If a business deal needs drinks on a yacht to clinch it, it is probably not much of a deal. Good deals are signed off wherever.

    Of course by the time any new Yacht exists, it is more than likely that Charles will be on the throne too. I expect he will like a bit of sea time.
    it's about networking.

    People react differently to an invitation to the royal yacht than to an invitation tom an embassy party. it's simply a point of differentiation as a marketing device
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    edited June 2020
    In the unlikely event that Trump is a candidate on 3 November he will get his arse kicked so hard that it hurts to think about it. (Speaking as a non-narcissist.)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    If a business deal needs drinks on a yacht to clinch it, it is probably not much of a deal. Good deals are signed off wherever.

    Of course by the time any new Yacht exists, it is more than likely that Charles will be on the throne too. I expect he will like a bit of sea time.
    That sounds all well and good in principle, but in practise, people are people.

    As for the likelihood of the Queen still reigning, you may be right, though I expect any new yacht would be a refit, not a new build.
    On the same basis as appropriating an RAF voyager, just paint a UJ on the arse end of HMS Queen Elizabeth?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    kle4 said:

    He's just a really likeable dude.
    Don't say 'just', a really likeable dude is a precious thing nowadays!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    edited June 2020
    For some bizarre reason, RLB follows me on Twitter. Maybe she liked some of the candidates lists I did a few years ago.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
  • Starmer showing a bit of personality today. That's his weakest point so glad he is working on it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    The Ebola epidemic in the Congo is officially over.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited June 2020
    Andrew said:

    Fox: Biden +9 in FLA, +2 in GA and NC, +1 in ..... Texas.

    True, though Biden is not up to or over 50% in any of them, which suggests unless there is a big third party vote there are still a lot of Trump voters staying silent. In all those states the Biden vote is at most only 2% up on Hillary's 2016 vote there

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1276278925816139776?s=20
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    I doubt its the party line, he's just an insensitive ****

    He was spouting the idea that businesses could pay wages from loans about five minutes before the furlough scheme was announced while everyone else was screaming that something else was needed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    It is what all countries do, all the time. It just so happens that we are actually quite good at it.
    Re trade deals? I can't think of any elderly constitutional monarchs that have played important roles in getting countries trade deals.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    If Biden does win handily the only downside is Trump claiming forever that he would have won easily but for Covid-19 screwing things up
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    I doubt its the party line, he's just an insensitive ****

    He was spouting the idea that businesses could pay wages from loans about five minutes before the furlough scheme was announced while everyone else was screaming that something else was needed.
    Yes, I recall that unedifying spectacle. Of course, as soon as the government changed its policy, he did the usual sheep routine. Partisan sycophancy pisses me off.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    An interesting thing about the batch of Fox News polls is that they're the only set I've seen to show Republican Senate candidates consistently outpoll (or at least match) Trump's numbers.

    Texas has Trump -1, but the Republican Senator Coryn +10.
    In North Carolina Trump is -2, matching the GOP performance in the Senate poll.
    In Georgia the Republican Senator Perdue is +3, but Trump is -2.

    Something I'm keeping an eye on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    An interesting thing about the batch of Fox News polls is that they're the only set I've seen to show Republican Senate candidates consistently outpoll (or at least match) Trump's numbers.

    Texas has Trump -1, but the Republican Senator Coryn +10.
    In North Carolina Trump is -2, matching the GOP performance in the Senate poll.
    In Georgia the Republican Senator Perdue is +3, but Trump is -2.

    Something I'm keeping an eye on.

    Texas and Georgia were two of the few states where Hillary did better than Obama in 2012 and Trump did worse than Romney
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited June 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Andy_JS said:

    For some bizarre reason, RLB follows me on Twitter. Maybe she liked some of the candidates lists I did a few years ago.

    Or the old election coverage.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    kle4 said:

    If Biden does win handily the only downside is Trump claiming forever that he would have won easily but for Covid-19 screwing things up

    That is probably an accurate analysis. The reality is we have seen Covid-19 and Trump was uniquely poorly equipped to manage the pandemic. Hopefully he will reap what he has sown.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    An interesting thing about the batch of Fox News polls is that they're the only set I've seen to show Republican Senate candidates consistently outpoll (or at least match) Trump's numbers.

    Texas has Trump -1, but the Republican Senator Coryn +10.
    In North Carolina Trump is -2, matching the GOP performance in the Senate poll.
    In Georgia the Republican Senator Perdue is +3, but Trump is -2.

    Something I'm keeping an eye on.

    Maybe the Trump brand (as opposed to the GOP) is now showing significant damage.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    A lidl bit sentimental, but in the circumstances..

    https://twitter.com/brfootball/status/1276262471892897792?s=20
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,294
    Looking forward to the farty Burgon leadership campaign next year.
    And congratulations to Liverpool.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    An interesting thing about the batch of Fox News polls is that they're the only set I've seen to show Republican Senate candidates consistently outpoll (or at least match) Trump's numbers.

    Texas has Trump -1, but the Republican Senator Coryn +10.
    In North Carolina Trump is -2, matching the GOP performance in the Senate poll.
    In Georgia the Republican Senator Perdue is +3, but Trump is -2.

    Something I'm keeping an eye on.

    Maybe the Trump brand (as opposed to the GOP) is now showing significant damage.
    The evidence does not suggest that

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1273724222607687680?s=20

    Texas does not like Trump much anyway, he lost the primary to Cruz and had a smaller lead over Hillary there than Romney did over Obama.

    Hillary was also closer to Trump in Georgia than Obama was to Romney in the state
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Something has gone boom in Iran - conflicting reports as to what it was
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Floater said:

    Something has gone boom in Iran - conflicting reports as to what it was

    The Election fightback from Trump?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    edited June 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    Floater said:

    Something has gone boom in Iran - conflicting reports as to what it was

    The Election fightback from Trump?
    Iraq is being cited by a number of sources as being behind the attack
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    Can't believe I was 23 the last time LFC won the league. It seemed to happen every year and brutally scar my soul.
    Nevertheless. Gritted teeth. By far the best team this season.
    We need to stop measuring ourselves by them...
    UTT. In Carlo we trust.
  • kle4 said:

    He's just a really likeable dude.
    it seems one man's likeable dude is another's preening narcissist.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited June 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    Most pubs have a capacity of 50 max and beer gardens, most theatres are indoors and several hundred seats minimum.

    Outdoor theatres will no doubt be allowed back in the not too distant future as a first step
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    The football is played with no crowd, it maybe possible to livestream plays with no audience if venues are indoors particularly
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    Open air and quite small, IIRC.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Floater said:

    Something has gone boom in Iran - conflicting reports as to what it was

    The Election fightback from Trump?
    Iraq is being cited by a number of sources as being behind the attack
    I was being controversial.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    This could be important.

    "But the Democrats have a secret weapon in 2020 on the other side of the age spectrum: senior voters. Among this age group — voters 65 and older — polls so far this year reveal a dramatic shift to the Democrats. That could be the most consequential political development of this election."

    "They thought he would bring them closer to the America they wanted, with some of the decency and values of the past. As far as many white seniors are concerned, they didn’t get it."


    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/trump-biden-senior-voters.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

    Agreed.

    And it's also notable that CV-19 affects older voters disproportionately. It is they who are taking the disproportionate risk.

    Really, the important 2016 to 2020 swings are:

    - older voters (worried by CV-19): R to D
    - white women (unhappy with divisive language): R to D
    - libertarian voters (happy that lockdown is opposed): L to R

    Given the Libertarian candidate got 3.% last time, this last one could also be important.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    Open air and quite small, IIRC.
    Scratch that - I have just read it has a 750 capacity.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    I am chair of a theatre company - we should be opening our outdoor summer production on Tuesday. We have cancelled our entire year of performances - so it is something I have been looking at a lot over the past weeks.

    Should football have restarted? I am not sure. Running around a large football field is different to a cast being on stage with one another.

    There is a case for saying that football has been restarted too soon. But I don't want to see a return to theatre until it is as safe as possible.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    dixiedean said:

    Can't believe I was 23 the last time LFC won the league. It seemed to happen every year and brutally scar my soul.
    Nevertheless. Gritted teeth. By far the best team this season.
    We need to stop measuring ourselves by them...
    UTT. In Carlo we trust.

    Nice message from a blue, I respect that. :)

    Coming from the other side of the water I've always supported both the whites and the reds - my whole family is either white and red or white and blue. This is a very mixed season seeing Tranmere get relegated by terminating the season early, while celebrating the first Liverpool title since I was just seven years old. Never imagined as a young child it would take until I was nearly forty before it happened again!
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    The football is played with no crowd, it maybe possible to livestream plays with no audience if venues are indoors particularly
    That is happening - The Old Vic is performing Lungs - a two-hander with Claire Foy and Matt Smith - who will be performing live in the theatre with no audience. Other venues will try variants on that theme, I am sure
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    Open air and quite small, IIRC.
    Scratch that - I have just read it has a 750 capacity.
    It also has very tight access steps for audience members - which will also not help. And an absence of tourists will make it tougher for them to break even.

    These are frustrating times in so many ways.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    The football is played with no crowd, it maybe possible to livestream plays with no audience if venues are indoors particularly
    Oxford Simon's point was the issue that actors! technicians were the potential problem, which is why I ignored the crowd free nature of the Premier League matches.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    An interesting thing about the batch of Fox News polls is that they're the only set I've seen to show Republican Senate candidates consistently outpoll (or at least match) Trump's numbers.

    Texas has Trump -1, but the Republican Senator Coryn +10.
    In North Carolina Trump is -2, matching the GOP performance in the Senate poll.
    In Georgia the Republican Senator Perdue is +3, but Trump is -2.

    Something I'm keeping an eye on.

    Maybe the Trump brand (as opposed to the GOP) is now showing significant damage.

    I think, given the lamentable abrogation of its responsibility to keep Trump in check, the Congressional GOP's standing is inextricably linked to Trump's. It has shown zero independence of thought or action.

    It deserves a comprehensive spanking every bit as bad as is coming to Trump.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    The football is played with no crowd, it maybe possible to livestream plays with no audience if venues are indoors particularly
    Football is not being played with no crowd! Premier League and Championship football is. There is more to football than just that!

    Lower league football is not. League One and League Two got terminated prematurely (seeing my League One side relegated harshly) while Leagues below them were marked nul and void. The idea that simply playing behind closed doors is a solution for everyone is farcical - maybe it is for the Premier League and their equivalents, not for everyone else.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    I am chair of a theatre company - we should be opening our outdoor summer production on Tuesday. We have cancelled our entire year of performances - so it is something I have been looking at a lot over the past weeks.

    Should football have restarted? I am not sure. Running around a large football field is different to a cast being on stage with one another.

    There is a case for saying that football has been restarted too soon. But I don't want to see a return to theatre until it is as safe as possible.

    Fair points.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    >

    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    Here's how the Airtanker PFI works. There are 9 'core' aircraft for which the MoD gets its credit card swiped every month. There are also 4 'surge' aircraft which have the AAR, DIRCM and a few other bits removed and are then leased back into the civilian market but which can be re-militarised in times of crises.

    Well, we are now in times of crisis; that crisis being that our fucc boi of a PM doesn't want a grey aircraft for his jollies. In March this year one of the surge fleet (G-VYGK) was recalled from the lessor and returned to RAF service. The MoD is now getting its paypal debited for 10 aircraft not 9 every month because one is now dedicated to VVIP movements and is unavailable for AAR tasks. So yes it's undermined military capacity because the MoD is now paying for 10 aircraft instead of 9 and will have to cut expenditure somewhere else to pay for it.

    I predict with 100% confidence that the South Thanet Thunderbolt will be filmed refuelling a stalling Typhoon somewhere over the North Sea to create some ambiguity around this situation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited June 2020

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    The football is played with no crowd, it maybe possible to livestream plays with no audience if venues are indoors particularly
    Football is not being played with no crowd! Premier League and Championship football is. There is more to football than just that!

    Lower league football is not. League One and League Two got terminated prematurely (seeing my League One side relegated harshly) while Leagues below them were marked nul and void. The idea that simply playing behind closed doors is a solution for everyone is farcical - maybe it is for the Premier League and their equivalents, not for everyone else.
    So in other words football is either being played with no crowd at the top end or not being played at all
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding Bojo's plane - to make a cheap point, I think we need a grovelling apology and promise to be good in future from @williamglenn, as he said we'd be getting nothing like the 'subtle' French Presidential plane design, but it appears we have more or less a carbon copy of that design but with the Union flag.

    Personally I think it looks quite nice, but I'm rather underwhelmed. It isn't Austin Powers *enough* for £900,000 as far as I am concerned. I expect to uncontrollably burst out singing Rule Britannia when I see it for that money. The person who said it just looks like a standard British Airways' jumbo is pretty on the mark.

    All of which rather misses the point, which is that Boris just blagged himself a personal jet, and convinced you that it’s costing less than a million.
    It may be the 'point' as far as the wider public is concerned, but personally I'm not bothered by Boris Johnson nicking the jet (which he uses anyway?). I would be worried if it undermined our military capacity, but I have heard nothing to suggest it will.

    I don't think money should be spared in advertising the UK overseas - Thatcher didn't either. Major didn't either, judging from the money he lavished on athletics training following our crappy showing in the Atlanta Olympics. I would be very much in favour (for example) of there being a new Royal Yacht. Anyone who doesn't think there's a difference in sending a trade delegation to Malacca and entertaining the movers and shakers aboard Britannia, letting them meet the Queen and see her in her geegaws, and just 'meeting them' in a conference room somewhere is mad.
    You want us to secure trade deals by parading the Queen in her geegaws?

    That sounds a bit tacky to me. That's not what I picture when I think Global Britain.
    Also a bit hard on someone who is now rather elderly, to put it politely.
    I mention the Queen because she is still very much a working monarch. When she no longer feels she can represent the UK in this way (which I hope won't be for ages), of course she will hand it over to Charles. Entertaining aboard a Royal Yacht wouldn't be anything different for the Queen - at least she gets a holiday of sorts on either side.
    HMQ is unlikely to be travelling anywhere by the time any Royal Yacht is built.

    If the government was really interested in using British soft power it would think about doing something about the performing arts, which are being crucified by this lockdown and which have been abandoned by the government.
    The arts have had the furlough scheme and loans available to them just any other industry
    Open your eyes to what is actually happening in the sector rather than always parrot the party line.
    Well those are the facts, the Government cannot do much more unless open live theatre to full houses again risking another peak
    Come on HYUFD you are picking and choosing to hold the government in a good light. You are claiming pubs are safe, theatres are not.

    As of yesterday, the Minack Theatre in Cornwall was well hacked off that they operate an open air amphitheatre which the government had deemed less safe than a branch of Wether spoons.
    It is the safety of actors/crew that is at the heart of this - not the audience. Audiences can be managed by removing seats, controlling how people move through the theatre space and so forth

    On the whole, actors tend to interact with one another throughout a performance. Yes, you can do that with a 1m+ distance between cast members - to a certain extent - but that may not always be appropriate. And I, for one, don't want government trying to decide which plays can be performed and how they should be directed.

    Plus backstage in many theatres is very tight on space - so the cast and crew would risk being in very close proximity to one another.

    Are there forms of performance that would be safe? Absolutely - and we will see those leading the way as things reopen.

    But it is right to err on the side of caution - frustrating as that is to theatre lovers and makers alike

    Should there be more assistance? Probably. Should it be handled by ACE - absolutely not. They are the worst people to be giving money to anyone.
    I don't dispute your points, but if it safe for the Premier League and Championship to reopen with players operating in close proximity, I scent a double standard. Remember what I said, the Minack Theatre is an open air amphitheatre.
    The football is played with no crowd, it maybe possible to livestream plays with no audience if venues are indoors particularly
    Football is not being played with no crowd! Premier League and Championship football is. There is more to football than just that!

    Lower league football is not. League One and League Two got terminated prematurely (seeing my League One side relegated harshly) while Leagues below them were marked nul and void. The idea that simply playing behind closed doors is a solution for everyone is farcical - maybe it is for the Premier League and their equivalents, not for everyone else.
    So in other words football is either being played with no crowd at the top end or not being played at all
    Indeed which for most clubs means it is not being played. The majority of clubs up and down the country are not playing at all.

    For a few "Premier League" equivalent theatres doing online performances may be enough, but for the overwhelming majority it will not be a viable business anymore than behind closed doors football is for smaller clubs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    TimT said:

    An interesting thing about the batch of Fox News polls is that they're the only set I've seen to show Republican Senate candidates consistently outpoll (or at least match) Trump's numbers.

    Texas has Trump -1, but the Republican Senator Coryn +10.
    In North Carolina Trump is -2, matching the GOP performance in the Senate poll.
    In Georgia the Republican Senator Perdue is +3, but Trump is -2.

    Something I'm keeping an eye on.

    Maybe the Trump brand (as opposed to the GOP) is now showing significant damage.

    I think, given the lamentable abrogation of its responsibility to keep Trump in check, the Congressional GOP's standing is inextricably linked to Trump's. It has shown zero independence of thought or action.

    It deserves a comprehensive spanking every bit as bad as is coming to Trump.
    More likely if Trump is re elected the Democrats will hold Congress for 4 years but if Biden is elected the GOP will retake Congress in 2022
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    kle4 said:

    He's just a really likeable dude.
    it seems one man's likeable dude is another's preening narcissist.
    Each to their own. He’s always come across as fun, charismatic and thoughtful to me. if he’s
    Preening it’s unconventional.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    "Why we should oppose the cancelling of Rebecca Long-Bailey

    Sacked for sharing a newspaper article? This is wrong and it will inflame the new censoriousness."

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/06/25/why-we-should-oppose-the-cancelling-of-rebecca-long-bailey/
  • eristdoof said:

    FF43 said:

    Alistair said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting analysis in the Guardian on the relationship in various countries between the severity and length of lockdown and the progression of the virus in terms of number of cases.

    What can we tell from this analysis? That CV-19 is a bugger to get rid of. We will almost certainly be living with a version of lockdown for the foreseeable future. You definitely want to suppress the incidence - Germany is in a better place than Sweden for example even though cases are rising in both countries. Severity of lockdown isn't a guarantee of successful suppression.

    My interpretation is it isn't a question of whether we lock down,it's how we do it. And we need to be a bit smart about it.

    Cases are not rising in Sweden, testing has simply been massively ramped up.

    Their ICU wards are emptying of Covid patients.
    Maybe. Think my point about Germany with fewer cases being in a better place still stands however. Looking at the Swedish stats, the large numbers still in ICU is striking. 180 currently. In contrast, Scotland with half the population has just 7.
    They have also been doing gazillions of tests in Gütersloh and Warendorf, where the Tönios abbatoir has that huge outbreak. School breaks up this week and most holiday accommodation is insisting that holiday makers from those districts can prove a cuurent negative test to be allowed to stay there.
    Not quite a gazillion, though. Karl-Josef Laumann (minister of health in NRW) has stated on telly that out of more than 2500 tests done yesterday in Kreis Gütersloh's newly opened, additional diagnosis centre for non-Tönnies-employees, there were only three positive results. That's encouraging.
    He didn't give any numbers for Kreis Warendorf. Their new spike took off a few days later. I think they might possibly need the whole weekend to set up additional testing facilities.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    rcs1000 said:

    This could be important.

    "But the Democrats have a secret weapon in 2020 on the other side of the age spectrum: senior voters. Among this age group — voters 65 and older — polls so far this year reveal a dramatic shift to the Democrats. That could be the most consequential political development of this election."

    "They thought he would bring them closer to the America they wanted, with some of the decency and values of the past. As far as many white seniors are concerned, they didn’t get it."


    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/trump-biden-senior-voters.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

    Agreed.

    And it's also notable that CV-19 affects older voters disproportionately. It is they who are taking the disproportionate risk.

    Really, the important 2016 to 2020 swings are:

    - older voters (worried by CV-19): R to D
    - white women (unhappy with divisive language): R to D
    - libertarian voters (happy that lockdown is opposed): L to R

    Given the Libertarian candidate got 3.% last time, this last one could also be important.
    Also given the trends in AZ and TX, and to a lesser extent FL

    - older voters (dead from CV-19): R to DNV
This discussion has been closed.