politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Little change in the first two of the Sunday newspaper polls to report
Unlike all the other pollsters that have reported this week tonight’s online surveys from Opinium for the Observer and ComRes for the Indy on Sunday/Sunday Mirror have the LAB lead steady or up a notch.
I haven't watched Strictly this evening, it's going to be my Sunday morning viewing, the results aren't out until 10.30ish tonight but I predict one of Abbey, Natalie, Patrick, Sophie and Susanna will get voted out.
By my (non-scientific) theory Ukip should be strongest (because they can draw on both con and ex-labour at the same time) - around the edge of the big cities - around the edge of the towns with the most grooming gangs - south and east coast towns so depending on where the samples were taken i don't think it's that surprising if the Ukip score wobbles a fair bit.
By my (non-scientific) theory Ukip should be strongest (because they can draw on both con and ex-labour at the same time) - around the edge of the big cities - around the edge of the towns with the most grooming gangs - south and east coast towns so depending on where the samples were taken i don't think it's that surprising if the Ukip score wobbles a fair bit.
Perhaps you should do a Grooming Gang Electoral Map, with the BNP on
By my (non-scientific) theory Ukip should be strongest (because they can draw on both con and ex-labour at the same time) - around the edge of the big cities - around the edge of the towns with the most grooming gangs - south and east coast towns so depending on where the samples were taken i don't think it's that surprising if the Ukip score wobbles a fair bit.
Perhaps you should do a Grooming Gang Electoral Map, with the BNP on
Nope, that doesn't explain why the BNP has died on its arse and in which regions.
I never said it did. I said the areas around that map would be one category of the areas where Ukip would do well - along with the areas around the big cities and along the south and east coast.
By my (non-scientific) theory Ukip should be strongest (because they can draw on both con and ex-labour at the same time) - around the edge of the big cities - around the edge of the towns with the most grooming gangs - south and east coast towns so depending on where the samples were taken i don't think it's that surprising if the Ukip score wobbles a fair bit.
Perhaps you should do a Grooming Gang Electoral Map, with the BNP on
Nope, that doesn't explain why the BNP has died on its arse and in which regions.
I never said it did. I said the areas around that map would be one category of the areas where Ukip would do well - along with the areas around the big cities and along the south and east coast.
Unlikely. It does however show the regions where the BNP vote will collapse most at next years Euro elections, which rather oddly doesn't feature in your well informed electoral analysis
By my (non-scientific) theory Ukip should be strongest (because they can draw on both con and ex-labour at the same time) - around the edge of the big cities - around the edge of the towns with the most grooming gangs - south and east coast towns so depending on where the samples were taken i don't think it's that surprising if the Ukip score wobbles a fair bit.
Perhaps you should do a Grooming Gang Electoral Map, with the BNP on
Nope, that doesn't explain why the BNP has died on its arse and in which regions.
I never said it did. I said the areas around that map would be one category of the areas where Ukip would do well - along with the areas around the big cities and along the south and east coast.
Unlikely. It does however show the regions where the BNP vote will collapse most at next years Euro elections, which rather oddly doesn't feature in your well informed electoral analysis
"Britain's worst gang hit neighbourhoods are seeing levels of sexual violence as bad as in war zones, it was claimed today."
When you post it for the 200th time perhaps you can write an accompanying piece explainingthe demise of the BNP, particularly in the NW and Yorkshire at next years Euros.
Why would anyone - apart from the BBC and political class of course - want to deflect attention from this?
By my (non-scientific) theory Ukip should be strongest (because they can draw on both con and ex-labour at the same time) - around the edge of the big cities - around the edge of the towns with the most grooming gangs - south and east coast towns so depending on where the samples were taken i don't think it's that surprising if the Ukip score wobbles a fair bit.
Perhaps you should do a Grooming Gang Electoral Map, with the BNP on
Nope, that doesn't explain why the BNP has died on its arse and in which regions.
I never said it did. I said the areas around that map would be one category of the areas where Ukip would do well - along with the areas around the big cities and along the south and east coast.
Unlikely. It does however show the regions where the BNP vote will collapse most at next years Euro elections, which rather oddly doesn't feature in your well informed electoral analysis
"Britain's worst gang hit neighbourhoods are seeing levels of sexual violence as bad as in war zones, it was claimed today."
When you post it for the 200th time perhaps you can write an accompanying piece explainingthe demise of the BNP, particularly in the NW and Yorkshire at next years Euros.
Why would anyone - apart from the BBC and political class of course - want to deflect attention from this?
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 6m SUNDAY TIMES: May goes to war over EU migrants #tomorrowspaperstoday #BBCPapers pic.twitter.com/9yMxdoQ3zB
Anyone who believes the idea of a 75,000 cap on EU migration is plausible rather than a distraction from UKIPs Romanian and Bulgarian campaign is either clinically insane or IDS.
Counting out all those Brit pensioners to Spain and France would be a good use of our time though
If it were Brit pensioners going to Bulgaria and Romania or mass immigration was from France and Spain there would be much less of a problem
By my (non-scientific) theory Ukip should be strongest (because they can draw on both con and ex-labour at the same time) - around the edge of the big cities - around the edge of the towns with the most grooming gangs - south and east coast towns so depending on where the samples were taken i don't think it's that surprising if the Ukip score wobbles a fair bit.
Perhaps you should do a Grooming Gang Electoral Map, with the BNP on
Nope, that doesn't explain why the BNP has died on its arse and in which regions.
I never said it did. I said the areas around that map would be one category of the areas where Ukip would do well - along with the areas around the big cities and along the south and east coast.
Unlikely. It does however show the regions where the BNP vote will collapse most at next years Euro elections, which rather oddly doesn't feature in your well informed electoral analysis
"Britain's worst gang hit neighbourhoods are seeing levels of sexual violence as bad as in war zones, it was claimed today."
When you post it for the 200th time perhaps you can write an accompanying piece explainingthe demise of the BNP, particularly in the NW and Yorkshire at next years Euros.
Why would anyone - apart from the BBC and political class of course - want to deflect attention from this?
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 6m SUNDAY TIMES: May goes to war over EU migrants #tomorrowspaperstoday #BBCPapers pic.twitter.com/9yMxdoQ3zB
Anyone who believes the idea of a 75,000 cap on EU migration is plausible rather than a distraction from UKIPs Romanian and Bulgarian campaign is either clinically insane or IDS.
Counting out all those Brit pensioners to Spain and France would be a good use of our time though
If it were Brit pensioners going to Bulgaria and Romania or mass immigration was from France and Spain there would be much less of a problem
Mass immigration is from France, 300,000- 400,000 in London alone. The fact that you choose to go for easier scapegoats doesn't negate that.
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 6m SUNDAY TIMES: May goes to war over EU migrants #tomorrowspaperstoday #BBCPapers pic.twitter.com/9yMxdoQ3zB
Anyone who believes the idea of a 75,000 cap on EU migration is plausible rather than a distraction from UKIPs Romanian and Bulgarian campaign is either clinically insane or IDS.
Counting out all those Brit pensioners to Spain and France would be a good use of our time though
If it were Brit pensioners going to Bulgaria and Romania or mass immigration was from France and Spain there would be much less of a problem
Mass immigration is from France, 300,000- 400,000 in London alone. The fact that you choose to go for easier scapegoats doesn't negate that.
What does the 'mass' in mass immigration mean?
Whatever you choose I guess, but 300,000 to 400,000 French people in London is mass, massive, Massif.
Try again
Think of the difference between "immigration, and "mass immigration"
The French Londoners have arrived over a very large number of years though.
The arrival of a large number of people from any country or set of countries in a short time is more of a tester. I can't see that a cap can be imposed as we signed up long ago. It's not unreasonable to look at options though if there is any genuine worry over what sharp influxes might produce.
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 6m SUNDAY TIMES: May goes to war over EU migrants #tomorrowspaperstoday #BBCPapers pic.twitter.com/9yMxdoQ3zB
Anyone who believes the idea of a 75,000 cap on EU migration is plausible rather than a distraction from UKIPs Romanian and Bulgarian campaign is either clinically insane or IDS.
Counting out all those Brit pensioners to Spain and France would be a good use of our time though
If it were Brit pensioners going to Bulgaria and Romania or mass immigration was from France and Spain there would be much less of a problem
Mass immigration is from France, 300,000- 400,000 in London alone. The fact that you choose to go for easier scapegoats doesn't negate that.
What does the 'mass' in mass immigration mean?
Whatever you choose I guess, but 300,000 to 400,000 French people in London is mass, massive, Massif.
Try again
Think of the difference between "immigration, and "mass immigration"
"Introducing facts into the immigration debate is like teaching a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
You've cracked that unfunny joke a dozen times and no ones acknowledged it... I wonder why?
But try again... What do you think the difference between mass immigration and immigration is?
The French Londoners have arrived over a very large number of years though.
The arrival of a large number of people from any country or set of countries in a short time is more of a tester. I can't see that a cap can be imposed as we signed up long ago. It's not unreasonable to look at options though if there is any genuine worry over what sharp influxes might produce.
D'oh! You've given tim the answer!
I was sure he'd get there eventually when the automated unfunnys ran out
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 6m SUNDAY TIMES: May goes to war over EU migrants #tomorrowspaperstoday #BBCPapers pic.twitter.com/9yMxdoQ3zB
Anyone who believes the idea of a 75,000 cap on EU migration is plausible rather than a distraction from UKIPs Romanian and Bulgarian campaign is either clinically insane or IDS.
Counting out all those Brit pensioners to Spain and France would be a good use of our time though
If it were Brit pensioners going to Bulgaria and Romania or mass immigration was from France and Spain there would be much less of a problem
Mass immigration is from France, 300,000- 400,000 in London alone. The fact that you choose to go for easier scapegoats doesn't negate that.
What does the 'mass' in mass immigration mean?
Whatever you choose I guess, but 300,000 to 400,000 French people in London is mass, massive, Massif.
Try again
Think of the difference between "immigration, and "mass immigration"
"Introducing facts into the immigration debate is like teaching a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
You've cracked that unfunny joke a dozen times and no ones acknowledged it... I wonder why?
But try again... What do you think the difference between mass immigration and immigration is?
Its not a joke, its a fact.
How am I supposed to guess what your definition of mass is? A Bulgarian sat next to you on the tube? 300,000-4000,000 French people in London?
No it's not a fact, it's an unfunny and incorrect remark
Ominium has provided the answer
No wonder you struggle if you didn't know that one
Big spread on your french estimate
Are there more french or more Eastern Europeans in London
The French Londoners have arrived over a very large number of years though.
The arrival of a large number of people from any country or set of countries in a short time is more of a tester. I can't see that a cap can be imposed as we signed up long ago. It's not unreasonable to look at options though if there is any genuine worry over what sharp influxes might produce.
It's not just numbers it's gender and age.
Imagine a little area containing say 100 young males aged 12-24 and 100 young females aged 12-24. Forget everything else about race, culture, ethnicity, whatever and just imagine what happens if you then add another 100 males aged 18-24 into that area in a short space of time?
What most normal people would imagine would happen is exactly what does happen.
supply and demand
(At least it's what happens at the rougher end of the spectrum.)
The French govt. estimated the 300-400k figure I think. Depends greatly what you count as London.
SeanT:
Your Choudary fella and his mates seem to wish to tell us that Allah is to be feared. If he's so fearsome why on earth does he need people banging on about it. If there is an Allah then he's clearly not that worried himself about being feared, and I suspect he must greatly wonder at the activities of the numpties that suggest so.
Of course we all know that there isn't an Allah, and we also all know that Choudary's activities are at best self-aggrandisement. The sooner he, and the Archbishop of Canterbury are locked away (preferably together) the better we'll all be.
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 6m SUNDAY TIMES: May goes to war over EU migrants #tomorrowspaperstoday #BBCPapers pic.twitter.com/9yMxdoQ3zB
Anyone who believes the idea of a 75,000 cap on EU migration is plausible rather than a distraction from UKIPs Romanian and Bulgarian campaign is either clinically insane or IDS.
Counting out all those Brit pensioners to Spain and France would be a good use of our time though
If it were Brit pensioners going to Bulgaria and Romania or mass immigration was from France and Spain there would be much less of a problem
Mass immigration is from France, 300,000- 400,000 in London alone. The fact that you choose to go for easier scapegoats doesn't negate that.
What does the 'mass' in mass immigration mean?
Whatever you choose I guess, but 300,000 to 400,000 French people in London is mass, massive, Massif.
Try again
Think of the difference between "immigration, and "mass immigration"
"Introducing facts into the immigration debate is like teaching a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
You've cracked that unfunny joke a dozen times and no ones acknowledged it... I wonder why?
But try again... What do you think the difference between mass immigration and immigration is?
Its not a joke, its a fact.
How am I supposed to guess what your definition of mass is? A Bulgarian sat next to you on the tube? 300,000-4000,000 French people in London?
No it's not a fact, it's an unfunny and incorrect remark
Ominium has provided the answer
No wonder you struggle if you didn't know that one
Big spread on your french estimate
Are there more french or more Eastern Europeans in London
I'll go 1/100 French And 1/100 Eastern European
If you group lots of countries together you can increase the numbers, well done.
GUARDIAN: OFSTED chief declares war on grammar schools #TomorrowsPapersToday #BBCPapers pic.twitter.com/KTn8UnOl7K
Grammar schools keep out poor kids through their selection methods, blimey, thats a new one
Not when there are plenty of them, the evidence is there in a generation of successful 60 somethings from poor backgrounds
There are plenty of them in the areas where they keep poor kids out, how many do you want in one particular area, they cease to be selective once you get too many.
Rich people move to those areas to access the schools because they aren't available everywhere
French refugees from high taxes and socialism arrived in London.
I think it's more that the language of business has become English, and that international business is quite often done in London. There's a very strong cultural grouping of French people here - French schools and the like. Completely at one with the spirit of London, but also maintaining their identity. If every cultural grouping could afford to do things that way then it'd be an ideal thing.
I've recently had some building work going on outside my flat. The workers were mostly Polish, but they acted almost in an English way amongst themselves - actually a nicer and more 'English' crowd than the average team of British born builders.
We as a nation are far, far better in principle than we are in practice. If it takes immigrants to remind us of how we ought to behave then good for them.
By my (non-scientific) theory Ukip should be strongest (because they can draw on both con and ex-labour at the same time) - around the edge of the big cities - around the edge of the towns with the most grooming gangs - south and east coast towns so depending on where the samples were taken i don't think it's that surprising if the Ukip score wobbles a fair bit.
Perhaps you should do a Grooming Gang Electoral Map, with the BNP on
Nope, that doesn't explain why the BNP has died on its arse and in which regions.
I never said it did. I said the areas around that map would be one category of the areas where Ukip would do well - along with the areas around the big cities and along the south and east coast.
More spin from PBs self proclaimed expert on schooling in South East England, who will now ignore the existence of high performing selective schools in Essex.
French refugees from high taxes and socialism arrived in London.
I think it's more that the language of business has become English, and that international business is quite often done in London. There's a very strong cultural grouping of French people here - French schools and the like. Completely at one with the spirit of London, but also maintaining their identity. If every cultural grouping could afford to do things that way then it'd be an ideal thing.
I've recently had some building work going on outside my flat. The workers were mostly Polish, but they acted almost in an English way amongst themselves - actually a nicer and more 'English' crowd than the average team of British born builders.
We as a nation are far, far better in principle than we are in practice. If it takes immigrants to remind us of how we ought to behave then good for them.
I disagree. The English are easily the nicest and most tolerant people in the world. I don't know why but it's true.
The French Londoners have arrived over a very large number of years though.
The arrival of a large number of people from any country or set of countries in a short time is more of a tester. I can't see that a cap can be imposed as we signed up long ago. It's not unreasonable to look at options though if there is any genuine worry over what sharp influxes might produce.
It's not just numbers it's gender and age.
Imagine a little area containing say 100 young males aged 12-24 and 100 young females aged 12-24. Forget everything else about race, culture, ethnicity, whatever and just imagine what happens if you then add another 100 males aged 18-24 into that area in a short space of time?
What most normal people would imagine would happen is exactly what does happen.
supply and demand
(At least it's what happens at the rougher end of the spectrum.)
I sometimes think you exaggerate, Mr Jones, and I am sure you are unhappily obsessed. I also regret your support for the utterly useless BNP, as you seem intelligent.
However I heard some direct if anecdotal evidence the other day which does rather lend credence to your monomania.
A friend of mine is quite a well known poet in his 60s. His wife is about fifteen years younger and works in psychotherapy, especially sexual abuse and sexual problems with adolescents. She is highly respected in her field: employed for big money by local councils.
Apparently, she has just quit her job, despite her success, because she finds the problem of gang rape too depressing and desolating - it now dominates her workload. She says the whole thing is dutifully ignored by many authorities; one of the biggest difficulties is that the girls "accept it" as part of the subculture.
The gangs are predominantly but certainly not exclusively black - whites and Asians do it, too.
Make of that what you will. Perhaps a BNP pamphlet.
"one of the biggest difficulties is that the girls "accept it" as part of the subculture."
They accept it as normal because it's become normal after 30 years of being ignored by the BBC and the political class. For example, imagine a girl on one of the hell estates where this is normal watching the recent BBC reporting on the gang-rape in India or Hague swanning off with Angelina Jolie. The BBC and political class have basically been telling girls on those estates to shut up and bleed quietly for years - so they accept the only alternative they have which is be "popular" or be hurt. That's their normal.
all the evidence is that middle class kids get coached through an 11 plus that excludes poor kids, which is Ofsteds point.
This is I think true Tim. The lowering of exam standards means too that all of these coached kids get to achieve the highest grades. So we have this amorphous mass of kids who are all indistinguishably bright according to the examiners. Years ago the exam standards were harder, and it was therefore harder to coach a thick but rich kid into the top grades. A poor but clever kid could make much more of a mark.
GUARDIAN: OFSTED chief declares war on grammar schools #TomorrowsPapersToday #BBCPapers pic.twitter.com/KTn8UnOl7K
Grammar schools keep out poor kids through their selection methods, blimey, thats a new one
Not when there are plenty of them, the evidence is there in a generation of successful 60 somethings from poor backgrounds
There are plenty of them in the areas where they keep poor kids out, how many do you want in one particular area, they cease to be selective once you get too many.
Rich people move to those areas to access the schools because they aren't available everywhere
Rich people move out from London to Essex and Kent to access their worse schools? Its a view I guess, although all the evidence is that middle class kids get coached through an 11 plus that excludes poor kids, which is Ofsteds point.
More spin from PBs self proclaimed expert on schooling in South East England, who will now ignore the existence of high performing selective schools in Essex.
Children moving into London do better than those moving out
Tonights story
"The chief inspector of schools, Sir Michael Wilshaw, has launched a scathing assault on England's 164 state-funded grammar schools and their supporters for holding back poorer pupils from getting on in life.
Wilshaw hit out at the selective schools for being "stuffed full of middle-class kids" and dismissed growing calls for more grammars in the wake of a damning international report on standards in schools. The head of the Office for Standards in Education said demands for more grammars should be ignored, as they serve the top 10% of the population at the expense of the poorest."
He's right, demonstrably right.
He's not, demonstrably not.
One of the reports you loved to quote from (until some of us actually went and read it and found out you had been misrepresenting it) showed that selective schools had no measurable impact on the non selective schools in the same area when compared to those areas without selection.
The report also showed that there was a small but measurable improvement in the results at selective schools compared to the non selective and that, as a result, the overall effect was to provide a small improvement overall in educational standards in an area but without any adverse effects on the non selective schools.
Even Wilshaw seems to be unable to understand basic logic as he claims that the 'middle classes' represent the top 10% of the population. Not sure if he went to a grammar school but clearly his education was somewhat lacking.
I disagree. The English are easily the nicest and most tolerant people in the world. I don't know why but it's true.
There was a time, I think, when English people on average took pleasure in being nice. You still see example every day, but the average isn't quite the same. Many of the best English people these days aren't in fact English. However it may be the case that the happy Englishman, who in fact comes from Zanzibar, that I may bump in to is happy and polite precisely because he is living in a country that he feels good about, and that is undoubtedly due to the (real) English masses.
How many countries in the top 25 PISA lists have selective education?
You'll find that most of them recognise that systems which are easily gamed to perpetuate privilege are not a wise idea.
Londons schooling revolution is the model that works, not Kents.
Its probably more to do with low divorce rate, fathers being present, Mothers not working... interesting feature on Fridays Daily Politics by Frank Field,which suggested kids education success or lack of it, is formed largely by the time theyre 4 years old.. Asian families, as was the case with old fashioned British families, tend to stick to this model. Lots of Asian families in Tower Hamlets...
As a leftie I can understand the pro-grammar school argument. When you're expectations are less you want an advantage.
However, why should we only seek advantage for a few. Education is about setting you free from morinity and mediocrity. I have personal experience of how a comprehensive school can free the bright and corrall the disruptive, whilst allowing the chance for all to progress. Grammar Schools by definition means lesser education for the majority and that I can't support. We need all schools to achieve a set level of attainment - why would we accept less?
Gove refusing Kent permission to extend its Grammar schools this week is something he got right, the logic of course is to introduce Comprehensive education into Kent as its system is broken. Kent Council acknowledge this
"A new 11-plus test is to be introduced in Kent to make it more difficult for families to coach their children to pass.
Kent County Council (KCC) said that from September 2014 the test would be a "more sophisticated" assessment."
My point though Tim was that all of this is about ensuring that the rich kids get into the elite bracket. I was a poor kid, but had such good grades that I did well later on - if I had the top grades now then I'd be in a much bigger pool and almost all of that pool would perhaps do better at interviews than my 18yo self for example.
Exams are good, but they have to be bloody hard.
(I probably should say that I'm mainly thinking about maths when I say all this, and that other subjects might not be so binary)
How many countries in the top 25 PISA lists have selective education?
You'll find that most of them recognise that systems which are easily gamed to perpetuate privilege are not a wise idea.
Londons schooling revolution is the model that works, not Kents.
LOL. Typical Tim action. As soon as someone points out exactly how wrong you are then you just change the line of attack subtly and pretend that nothing have changed.
The PISA lists and the way we have plummeted through them is an indictment of Labour education policy and has nothing to do with selective or non selective education. It is worth noting that both Australia and Germany which have selective systems to some degree (and certainly more than the UK) are both substantially higher in the PISA tables than we are.
Sorry to see you have a nasty case of the 'Tim's' - I've been there a couple of times myself, although currently he and I are on better terms (I think).
Anyway, by way of scant consolation I'd like to buy and read one of your books - just as I've seen you mention them.
If you'd care to point me at a good starting point therefore it'd be much appreciated.
How many countries in the top 25 PISA lists have selective education?
You'll find that most of them recognise that systems which are easily gamed to perpetuate privilege are not a wise idea.
Londons schooling revolution is the model that works, not Kents.
LOL. Typical Tim action. As soon as someone points out exactly how wrong you are then you just change the line of attack subtly and pretend that nothing have changed.
The PISA lists and the way we have plummeted through them is an indictment of Labour education policy and has nothing to do with selective or non selective education. It is worth noting that both Australia and Germany which have selective systems to some degree (and certainly more than the UK) are both substantially higher in the PISA tables than we are.
Germany has climbed as it's run down selection. Outside Singapore which countries at the top of the PISA tables have selection?
the answer is obvious, if they select out 80% of kids they aren't at the top of the PISA tables.
How many countries in the top 25 PISA lists have selective education?
You'll find that most of them recognise that systems which are easily gamed to perpetuate privilege are not a wise idea.
Londons schooling revolution is the model that works, not Kents.
LOL. Typical Tim action. As soon as someone points out exactly how wrong you are then you just change the line of attack subtly and pretend that nothing have changed.
The PISA lists and the way we have plummeted through them is an indictment of Labour education policy and has nothing to do with selective or non selective education. It is worth noting that both Australia and Germany which have selective systems to some degree (and certainly more than the UK) are both substantially higher in the PISA tables than we are.
Germany has climbed as it's run down selection. Outside Singapore which countries at the top of the PISA tables have selection?
the answer is obvious, if they select out 80% of kids they aren't at the top of the PISA tables.
How many countries in the top 25 PISA lists have selective education?
You'll find that most of them recognise that systems which are easily gamed to perpetuate privilege are not a wise idea.
Londons schooling revolution is the model that works, not Kents.
Its probably more to do with low divorce rate, fathers being present, Mothers not working... interesting feature on Fridays Daily Politics by Frank Field,which suggested kids education success or lack of it, is formed largely by the time theyre 4 years old.. Asian families, as was the case with old fashioned British families, tend to stick to this model. Lots of Asian families in Tower Hamlets...
How many countries in the top 25 PISA lists have selective education?
You'll find that most of them recognise that systems which are easily gamed to perpetuate privilege are not a wise idea.
Londons schooling revolution is the model that works, not Kents.
LOL. Typical Tim action. As soon as someone points out exactly how wrong you are then you just change the line of attack subtly and pretend that nothing have changed.
The PISA lists and the way we have plummeted through them is an indictment of Labour education policy and has nothing to do with selective or non selective education. It is worth noting that both Australia and Germany which have selective systems to some degree (and certainly more than the UK) are both substantially higher in the PISA tables than we are.
Germany has climbed as it's run down selection. Outside Singapore which countries at the top of the PISA tables have selection?
the answer is obvious, if they select out 80% of kids they aren't at the top of the PISA tables.
How many countries in the top 25 PISA lists have selective education?
You'll find that most of them recognise that systems which are easily gamed to perpetuate privilege are not a wise idea.
Londons schooling revolution is the model that works, not Kents.
LOL. Typical Tim action. As soon as someone points out exactly how wrong you are then you just change the line of attack subtly and pretend that nothing have changed.
The PISA lists and the way we have plummeted through them is an indictment of Labour education policy and has nothing to do with selective or non selective education. It is worth noting that both Australia and Germany which have selective systems to some degree (and certainly more than the UK) are both substantially higher in the PISA tables than we are.
Germany has climbed as it's run down selection. Outside Singapore which countries at the top of the PISA tables have selection?
the answer is obvious, if they select out 80% of kids they aren't at the top of the PISA tables.
You do come over as rather anti-intellectual.
Tim clearly believes in the lowest common denominator principle of education. He has no interest in how well anyone is doing as long as they are all doing it equally.
Gove refusing Kent permission to extend its Grammar schools this week is something he got right, the logic of course is to introduce Comprehensive education into Kent as its system is broken. Kent Council acknowledge this
"A new 11-plus test is to be introduced in Kent to make it more difficult for families to coach their children to pass.
Kent County Council (KCC) said that from September 2014 the test would be a "more sophisticated" assessment."
My point though Tim was that all of this is about ensuring that the rich kids get into the elite bracket. I was a poor kid, but had such good grades that I did well later on - if I had the top grades now then I'd be in a much bigger pool and almost all of that pool would perhaps do better at interviews than my 18yo self for example.
Exams are good, but they have to be bloody hard.
(I probably should say that I'm mainly thinking about maths when I say all this, and that other subjects might not be so binary)
Of course some poor kids still get through but the system is rigged and easily gamed
"THE 6% OF PUPILS AT PREP SCHOOLS PROVIDE FOUR TIMES MORE GRAMMAR SCHOOL ENTRANTS THAN THE 16% ENTITLED TO FREE SCHOOL MEALS – SUTTON TRUST"
It's pointless basing an anti grammar school argument on 2013 Grammar schools. The fact is hat when they were commonplace, poor kids got into top universities, became prime minister etc etc. now they are scarce, only rich people get to use them
Abolishing them punished poor people and helped the rich, that's all there is to it
Have I missed all the dissections of tonight's polls? Yesterday they were dissected to death in a subsection frenzy. I cannot see the same with tonight's. Wonder why?
How many countries in the top 25 PISA lists have selective education?
You'll find that most of them recognise that systems which are easily gamed to perpetuate privilege are not a wise idea.
Londons schooling revolution is the model that works, not Kents.
Its probably more to do with low divorce rate, fathers being present, Mothers not working... interesting feature on Fridays Daily Politics by Frank Field,which suggested kids education success or lack of it, is formed largely by the time theyre 4 years old.. Asian families, as was the case with old fashioned British families, tend to stick to this model. Lots of Asian families in Tower Hamlets...
Explain the rest of London.
Lots of them there too
OK, you want to base your whole argument on the improvement in education in London on mass Asian immigration. Are you sure you've thought this through?
No of course not but I think it is a factor. The typical home life seems more similar to Shanghai than modern British.
Have you worked out the difference between mass immigration and immigration yet?
Have I missed all the dissections of tonight's polls? Yesterday they were dissected to death in a subsection frenzy. I cannot see the same with tonight's. Wonder why?
My point was: 100 rich kids, 100 poor kids. Some proper test or other. If you set a bar at 99% none will get there. At 75% perhaps 4/1. At 60% perhaps 40/6.
So if this were to be true then a higher proportion of the places for academic success in life would fall to the rich.
Look at yourself Tim - PB.com gives you a way to stand out. If you had to take your turn with 428 other A graders for posting it'd be a quitter life.
Have I missed all the dissections of tonight's polls? Yesterday they were dissected to death in a subsection frenzy. I cannot see the same with tonight's. Wonder why?
High ukip scores?
Possibly? There seems to be a common thread to the post on polls. When they produce certain results they seem to get mentioned quite a lot and there is huge interest in the subsections, whilst other polls with certain results, just seem to get ignored. Cannot put my finger on it.
'EIGHT people read your blog between your debut in early 2010, and late 2011, when you stopped blogging in despair. I thought it was ZERO, but it was EIGHT.
Have I missed all the dissections of tonight's polls? Yesterday they were dissected to death in a subsection frenzy. I cannot see the same with tonight's. Wonder why?
Really, why bother with these childish trolling comments? DavidL posted this on yesterday evening's thread. 'Gosh it is quiet on here tonight.' Bing Crosby - It's Beginning to Look A Lot Like Christmas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZAwoip5aY
Have I missed all the dissections of tonight's polls? Yesterday they were dissected to death in a subsection frenzy. I cannot see the same with tonight's. Wonder why?
How many countries in the top 25 PISA lists have selective education?
You'll find that most of them recognise that systems which are easily gamed to perpetuate privilege are not a wise idea.
Londons schooling revolution is the model that works, not Kents.
LOL. Typical Tim action. As soon as someone points out exactly how wrong you are then you just change the line of attack subtly and pretend that nothing have changed.
The PISA lists and the way we have plummeted through them is an indictment of Labour education policy and has nothing to do with selective or non selective education. It is worth noting that both Australia and Germany which have selective systems to some degree (and certainly more than the UK) are both substantially higher in the PISA tables than we are.
Germany has climbed as it's run down selection. Outside Singapore which countries at the top of the PISA tables have selection?
the answer is obvious, if they select out 80% of kids they aren't at the top of the PISA tables.
How many countries in the top 25 PISA lists have selective education?
You'll find that most of them recognise that systems which are easily gamed to perpetuate privilege are not a wise idea.
Londons schooling revolution is the model that works, not Kents.
LOL. Typical Tim action. As soon as someone points out exactly how wrong you are then you just change the line of attack subtly and pretend that nothing have changed.
The PISA lists and the way we have plummeted through them is an indictment of Labour education policy and has nothing to do with selective or non selective education. It is worth noting that both Australia and Germany which have selective systems to some degree (and certainly more than the UK) are both substantially higher in the PISA tables than we are.
Germany has climbed as it's run down selection. Outside Singapore which countries at the top of the PISA tables have selection?
the answer is obvious, if they select out 80% of kids they aren't at the top of the PISA tables.
You do come over as rather anti-intellectual.
Tim clearly believes in the lowest common denominator principle of education. He has no interest in how well anyone is doing as long as they are all doing it equally.
And the evidence all says that London is the model we should follow, not a rigged system like Kent
If you actually read the reports into the improvements in London instead of just inventing reasons without looking at what the authors said then you would see that one of the main reasons that there has been such an improvement has been because of a huge drive to get parents more involved in the education of their children - something you continually attack and deride on here as 'middle class'.
If you look at Japan you will see that whilst the education system is comprehensive, one of the main reasons given for their improvement is the fact that large numbers of parents pay for extra tuition after schools and during holidays known as 'juku'. Again this is something you have attacked and derided on here.
I repeat, you are only interested in the lowest common denominator.
Tim you've violated Mike Smithson's ruling about not talking about Plato, again.
As you appear to never learn, we have revoked your posting privileges. We will consider them restoring them in a few days.
Although I am currently arguing with him on a different subject Tim can claim some provocation here, as Avery points out. Perhaps a warning to both sides rather than just jumping on Tim again.
Is anything likely to drastically impact the polls between now and the Euro campaign?
My theory, which I've expounded here before, is that politics isn't the continuous flow that we think because we have daily polls, since most people aren't paying attention. Instead it's a steady state with occasional switch points when people have a look. We've just had one, the Autumn Statement. Osborne's rating is up. The impact on voting intention is negligible. What's left?
1. The 2014 budget. Budgets don't usually shift much. 2. The outcome of the hacking trial. No comment. 3. The Euro-election. Could be very important for deciding whether UKIP is taken seriously in 2015, and on internal Tory party discipline. 4. The 2014 Autumn Statement. See 1. 5. The 2015 budget. See 1, but it'll be an election budget, so maybe. 6. The election campaign. Election campaigns don't often shift much. 7. Black swans. A breakthrough in personal incomes? A big global or local economic wobble? Or, er...
I think 3, maybe 6 and of course 7 matter. Otherwise, can't see anything changing greatly. Why should it? IMO we're 16.5 months from Prime Minister Ed M.
In other news, Borgen is over (sob!) but The Bridge is back on January 4 (yay!).
1) Can we not post people's personal details on here.
2) Tim posted a particularly nasty comment about Plato, in violation of Mike Smithson's warnings to both of them not to do so, it was not his first infringement, he was previously warned not to do this on several occasions.
Tim you've violated Mike Smithson's ruling about not talking about Plato, again.
As you appear to never learn, we have revoked your posting privileges. We will consider them restoring them in a few days.
Although I am currently arguing with him on a different subject Tim can claim some provocation here, as Avery points out. Perhaps a warning to both sides rather than just jumping on Tim again.
Respectfully disagree with your assessment. You're just too used to seeing PBers wimp out when tim ramps up the unpleasantness. It's a pleasant change to see someone push back.
Will you lot all shut up already. You're all getting worse that Stuart Dickson.
On the last thread, there was a very interesting and (generally) informative discussion about the limits of non-state courts from a variety of posters from across the political spectrum, notably Sean_F, cyclefree, Nick Palmer, Neil, isam, and myself. I come on here, and it's a ridiculous slag-fest.
Will you lot all shut up already. You're all getting worse that Stuart Dickson.
On the last thread, there was a very interesting and (generally) informative discussion about the limits of non-state courts from a variety of posters from across the political spectrum, notably Sean_F, cyclefree, Nick Palmer, Neil, isam, and myself. I come on here, and it's a ridiculous slag-fest.
Well I never did ....
I've called SeanT an old tart before but never a "slag" !!
Disgraceful .... I'll be having words with your father.
Everyone gets tetchy without a *political story fix*.
I, meanwhile, missing a work do due to a headcold that's held off until the weekend and is likely to clear up in time for Monday morning, have just watched 'Die Hard' for the 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th time.
Everyone gets tetchy without a *political story fix*.
I, meanwhile, missing a work do due to a headcold that's held off until the weekend and is likely to clear up in time for Monday morning, have just watched 'Die Hard' for the 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th time.
Have I missed all the dissections of tonight's polls? Yesterday they were dissected to death in a subsection frenzy. I cannot see the same with tonight's. Wonder why?
And, crossover has been postponed !
Eleven days for Avery to upsticks with his crossover goalposts and take them for another periodic wander. A few more months for whoever the other poster said it was going to be May(these PB Hodges seem to merge into one after a while).
Relying on Yougov being good for the PB Hodges or it could be a subsection free zone tonight.
Comments
Mark Wallace @wallaceme 5m
@Andrew_ComRes @johnrentoul Indie reporting UKIP 18% and LD 8%, but ComRes table says other way round
http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/SM_IoS_Political_Poll_15th_December_2013.pdf … who's right?
Edit:
Damian Lyons Lowe @DamianSurvation 6m
@wallaceme if you look at the 2010 vote cross-breaks for clues, it just looks like a table label fail...
That's the way to do it.
@Geoff
Good man - I admire your positivity.
You know the Aussies are a confidence team. Our job is to bring back the old doubts.
I won't back my words with cash but I will be setting the alarm.
See you both on PB later.
Don't tell me who's out TSE.
2-1 to the good guys please....
Hammersmith: Charlie Dewhirst (local Cllr)
Kingston & Surbiton: James Berry
Although I suppose they will take it going into the holidays.
I promise no spoilers ever again.
- around the edge of the big cities
- around the edge of the towns with the most grooming gangs
- south and east coast towns
so depending on where the samples were taken i don't think it's that surprising if the Ukip score wobbles a fair bit.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2513653/Sexual-violence-gang-neighbourhoods-like-war-zones-girls-young-11-groomed-raped.html
"Britain's worst gang hit neighbourhoods are seeing levels of sexual violence as bad as in war zones, it was claimed today."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-probe-least-54-more-1896991
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2513653/Sexual-violence-gang-neighbourhoods-like-war-zones-girls-young-11-groomed-raped.html
"Britain's worst gang hit neighbourhoods are seeing levels of sexual violence as bad as in war zones, it was claimed today."
twitter.com/neilmatthews1/status/411884300272173056
https://twitter.com/LynneBeaumont
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2513653/Sexual-violence-gang-neighbourhoods-like-war-zones-girls-young-11-groomed-raped.html
"Britain's worst gang hit neighbourhoods are seeing levels of sexual violence as bad as in war zones, it was claimed today."
If it were Brit pensioners going to Bulgaria and Romania or mass immigration was from France and Spain there would be much less of a problem
What does the 'mass' in mass immigration mean?
Think of the difference between "immigration, and "mass immigration"
The arrival of a large number of people from any country or set of countries in a short time is more of a tester. I can't see that a cap can be imposed as we signed up long ago. It's not unreasonable to look at options though if there is any genuine worry over what sharp influxes might produce.
You've cracked that unfunny joke a dozen times and no ones acknowledged it... I wonder why?
But try again... What do you think the difference between mass immigration and immigration is?
I was sure he'd get there eventually when the automated unfunnys ran out
Ominium has provided the answer
No wonder you struggle if you didn't know that one
Big spread on your french estimate
Are there more french or more Eastern Europeans in London
I'll go 1/100 French
And 1/100 Eastern European
Imagine a little area containing say 100 young males aged 12-24 and 100 young females aged 12-24. Forget everything else about race, culture, ethnicity, whatever and just imagine what happens if you then add another 100 males aged 18-24 into that area in a short space of time?
What most normal people would imagine would happen is exactly what does happen.
supply and demand
(At least it's what happens at the rougher end of the spectrum.)
SeanT:
Your Choudary fella and his mates seem to wish to tell us that Allah is to be feared. If he's so fearsome why on earth does he need people banging on about it. If there is an Allah then he's clearly not that worried himself about being feared, and I suspect he must greatly wonder at the activities of the numpties that suggest so.
Of course we all know that there isn't an Allah, and we also all know that Choudary's activities are at best self-aggrandisement. The sooner he, and the Archbishop of Canterbury are locked away (preferably together) the better we'll all be.
Get on Di Matteo as next Albion boss
Not when there are plenty of them, the evidence is there in a generation of successful 60 somethings from poor backgrounds
I've recently had some building work going on outside my flat. The workers were mostly Polish, but they acted almost in an English way amongst themselves - actually a nicer and more 'English' crowd than the average team of British born builders.
We as a nation are far, far better in principle than we are in practice. If it takes immigrants to remind us of how we ought to behave then good for them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2523680/How-Britain-iPhone-technology-Apple-Quango-handed-advantage-competition.html
Great advert for civil servants and the state picking winners. Back to the stone age with Ed M and the white heat of technology of cup cakes.
They accept it as normal because it's become normal after 30 years of being ignored by the BBC and the political class. For example, imagine a girl on one of the hell estates where this is normal watching the recent BBC reporting on the gang-rape in India or Hague swanning off with Angelina Jolie. The BBC and political class have basically been telling girls on those estates to shut up and bleed quietly for years - so they accept the only alternative they have which is be "popular" or be hurt. That's their normal.
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/dec/14/ofsted-chief-war-grammar-schools
& who said move they out from London?
One of the reports you loved to quote from (until some of us actually went and read it and found out you had been misrepresenting it) showed that selective schools had no measurable impact on the non selective schools in the same area when compared to those areas without selection.
The report also showed that there was a small but measurable improvement in the results at selective schools compared to the non selective and that, as a result, the overall effect was to provide a small improvement overall in educational standards in an area but without any adverse effects on the non selective schools.
Even Wilshaw seems to be unable to understand basic logic as he claims that the 'middle classes' represent the top 10% of the population. Not sure if he went to a grammar school but clearly his education was somewhat lacking.
However, why should we only seek advantage for a few. Education is about setting you free from morinity and mediocrity. I have personal experience of how a comprehensive school can free the bright and corrall the disruptive, whilst allowing the chance for all to progress. Grammar Schools by definition means lesser education for the majority and that I can't support. We need all schools to achieve a set level of attainment - why would we accept less?
My point though Tim was that all of this is about ensuring that the rich kids get into the elite bracket. I was a poor kid, but had such good grades that I did well later on - if I had the top grades now then I'd be in a much bigger pool and almost all of that pool would perhaps do better at interviews than my 18yo self for example.
Exams are good, but they have to be bloody hard.
(I probably should say that I'm mainly thinking about maths when I say all this, and that other subjects might not be so binary)
The PISA lists and the way we have plummeted through them is an indictment of Labour education policy and has nothing to do with selective or non selective education. It is worth noting that both Australia and Germany which have selective systems to some degree (and certainly more than the UK) are both substantially higher in the PISA tables than we are.
Sorry to see you have a nasty case of the 'Tim's' - I've been there a couple of times myself, although currently he and I are on better terms (I think).
Anyway, by way of scant consolation I'd like to buy and read one of your books - just as I've seen you mention them.
If you'd care to point me at a good starting point therefore it'd be much appreciated.
Abolishing them punished poor people and helped the rich, that's all there is to it
Have you worked out the difference between mass immigration and immigration yet?
100 rich kids, 100 poor kids. Some proper test or other. If you set a bar at 99% none will get there. At 75% perhaps 4/1. At 60% perhaps 40/6.
So if this were to be true then a higher proportion of the places for academic success in life would fall to the rich.
Look at yourself Tim - PB.com gives you a way to stand out. If you had to take your turn with 428 other A graders for posting it'd be a quitter life.
By the way, where is Ave it ? WE need to know more about Watford.
UKIP ain't going away. It is gnawing away at the Tories !
As you appear to never learn, we have revoked your posting privileges. We will consider restoring them in a few days.
'EIGHT people read your blog between your debut in early 2010, and late 2011, when you stopped blogging in despair. I thought it was ZERO, but it was EIGHT.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100315000000*/http://politicalfretting.com'
How did you come up with such an original name?
DavidL posted this on yesterday evening's thread. 'Gosh it is quiet on here tonight.'
Bing Crosby - It's Beginning to Look A Lot Like Christmas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZAwoip5aY
If you look at Japan you will see that whilst the education system is comprehensive, one of the main reasons given for their improvement is the fact that large numbers of parents pay for extra tuition after schools and during holidays known as 'juku'. Again this is something you have attacked and derided on here.
I repeat, you are only interested in the lowest common denominator.
1. The 2014 budget. Budgets don't usually shift much.
2. The outcome of the hacking trial. No comment.
3. The Euro-election. Could be very important for deciding whether UKIP is taken seriously in 2015, and on internal Tory party discipline.
4. The 2014 Autumn Statement. See 1.
5. The 2015 budget. See 1, but it'll be an election budget, so maybe.
6. The election campaign. Election campaigns don't often shift much.
7. Black swans. A breakthrough in personal incomes? A big global or local economic wobble? Or, er...
I think 3, maybe 6 and of course 7 matter. Otherwise, can't see anything changing greatly. Why should it? IMO we're 16.5 months from Prime Minister Ed M.
In other news, Borgen is over (sob!) but The Bridge is back on January 4 (yay!).
2) Tim posted a particularly nasty comment about Plato, in violation of Mike Smithson's warnings to both of them not to do so, it was not his first infringement, he was previously warned not to do this on several occasions.
The comment has been deleted.
Will you lot all shut up already. You're all getting worse that Stuart Dickson.
On the last thread, there was a very interesting and (generally) informative discussion about the limits of non-state courts from a variety of posters from across the political spectrum, notably Sean_F, cyclefree, Nick Palmer, Neil, isam, and myself. I come on here, and it's a ridiculous slag-fest.
I do like the smack of firm government ....
Should you feel underemployed my "facilities" at Auchentennach Castle are always appreciative of special talents !!
Moderator has now squared the circle.
Did something happen to Plato's ability to post?
All clear?
I've called SeanT an old tart before but never a "slag" !!
Disgraceful .... I'll be having words with your father.
The secret is out.
'Why should it? IMO we're 16.5 months from Prime Minister Ed M.'
Definitely not complacent.
I, meanwhile, missing a work do due to a headcold that's held off until the weekend and is likely to clear up in time for Monday morning, have just watched 'Die Hard' for the 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th time.
Relying on Yougov being good for the PB Hodges or it could be a subsection free zone tonight.
Free Plato, Free Tim.
The party plans a more substantial agenda when its requests are met!