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SouthamObserver

Mr Morris, I posted the following in response to you on Spain just as the previous thread ended:

The only possible resolution I can see is for the central government to give Catalonia more powers, including the right to keep all the tax money it collects and to protect the Catalan language in any way it sees fit. Independence is not something that is just going to go away, that is for sure.

There is not the same pressure for separation in the Basque country because outside of defence, foreign affairs and a few infrastructure related issues the Basques essentially look after themselves. Most Catalans would be happy with the same. The current central government, which is Spanish nationalist, will not concede that. The Socialists probably would, but they are unlikely to win the next election. No Madrid party will agree to a Catalan independence referendum.

Basically, what we have right now are two very stubborn centre right governments in Madrid and Barcelona refusing to budge an inch, with a much more left wing, much more aggressive party in Catalonia ready to become the biggest party in the Parliament there. I can see this running and running and it getting tenser and tenser, until at some stage someone relatively unimportant (a colonel, a captain, someone in the Catalan police force) does something very stupid and people get killed. At that stage the EU will step in and a deal will be forced on both sides, with the Catalans basically getting what the Basques have.

This is all very, very Spanish.

edmundintokyo

SouthamObserver said:

At that stage the EU will step in and a deal will be forced on both sides, with the Catalans basically getting what the Basques have.

Who do we reckon acts represents the EU in that scenario, and how do they enforce cooperation?

FluffyThoughts

Slappahs to the to the left of me; Islamic beaters to the right: Here we are....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DohRa9lsx0Q

:all-happy-clappy:

Cyclefree

Well, as someone who has been pretty vocal on the topic, well done Marf!

Theuniondivvie

Airhead, you say?

There may be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth ahead.

FluffyThoughts

edmundintokyo said:

Who do we reckon acts represents the EU in that scenario, and how do they enforce cooperation?

Gaijin: Not kolleck!

Co-operation is a conjoined expression: As in Co-Op for co-operation co-operative.* Please try....

* Orf to the local hostelry.... :oops:

Sunil_Prasannan

Wonderful cartoon, Marf! One of your best yet

Pulpstar

Finished Christmas shopping ?

I've barely started mine.

Carola

I used to resolve to start my xmas shopping early. Then one year I did. All it meant was stressing for a month over what presents to get then buying something I wasn't sure about/happy with at the last minute. Now I leave it all until the last minute. Same presents, only a last minute's worth of stress. Result!

TheWatcher

I see Anjem Choudhary is up to his old tricks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2523658/Muslim-campaigners-protest-sale-alcohol-popular-East-London-area.html

Scrapheap_as_was

Welcome to the club, 6'd by the City.

malcolmg

FPT , interesting site re Catalonia debate, http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/

Neil

TheWatcher said:

I see Anjem Choudhary is up to his old tricks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2523658/Muslim-campaigners-protest-sale-alcohol-popular-East-London-area.html

The guy knows what his audience wants and gives it to them.

Stark_Dawning

The British liberal establishment's capitulation to the bigotry of alien religious fanatics is shocking to be behold.

On another note, Miliband desperately needs to sack Balls. It's incredible how the political momentum has swung back to the Tories - and to George Osborne in particular - after his omnishambolic response to the Autumn Statement.

fitalass

Man City just need to bag a 6 against Chelsea and it will be a straight sets win for them against London teams.

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Welcome to the club, 6'd by the City.

Morris_Dancer

Spot on, Mr. Dawning.

Neil

Stark_Dawning said:

The British liberal establishment's capitulation to the bigotry of alien religious fanatics is shocking to be behold.

What form has this capitulation taken?

JohnLilburne

On topic, there is one important consideration when discussing whether events at universities should be segregated by sex: university students are adults, and can sit where they damned well like. If someone tries to run a sex-segregated event they can be told - you can try, but it can't be enforced.

Toms

Marf, you make me smile. but I still feel very strongly about it. And about one or two other things too. In my cartoonist's brain (but lacking the artistic talent) I can see humour totally upending other tense situations. Twelve angry men, Tea Party filbustering, etc etc.

MikeK

Marf made me laugh on a day when my washing machine has gone kaput, and my wife is tearing her hair out.

saddened

MikeK said:

Marf made me laugh on a day when my washing machine has gone kaput, and my wife is tearing her hair out.

From the tone of your posts I'm surprised that your wife and washing machine are not one and the same thing.

MikeK

saddened said:

MikeK said:

Marf made me laugh on a day when my washing machine has gone kaput, and my wife is tearing her hair out.

From the tone of your posts I'm surprised that your wife and washing machine are not one and the same thing.

Don't be a complete arsehole, saddened

TwistedFireStopper

SeanT said:

Re that wanker Choudhary, I can't see why he isn't prosecuted: threatening shopkeepers with 40 lashes is surely an offence (breach of the peace?), likewise praising the Muslims who assaulted the drinkers sounds very much like incitement to violence.

Just take him off the streets and lock him up for a few years. The man is a menace. How hard is this stuff? Grrr.

If a white guy went around loudly praising people who assaulted Muslims he'd be in Wormwood Scrubs by Monday morning.

If you can have your collar felt by the old bill for some numpty banter on twitter, then threatening someone with 40 lashes should be a no brainer.

MikeK

SeanT said:

Re that wanker Choudhary, I can't see why he isn't prosecuted: threatening shopkeepers with 40 lashes is surely an offence (breach of the peace?), likewise praising the Muslims who assaulted the drinkers sounds very much like incitement to violence.

Just take him off the streets and lock him up for a few years. The man is a menace. How hard is this stuff? Grrr.

If a white guy went around loudly praising people who assaulted Muslims he'd be in Wormwood Scrubs by Monday morning.

All our politicians from the main parties are shit scared of losing the muslim vote. Thats why they allow scum like Choudhary to continue unhindered. They don't seem to realise that they are losing their country, bit by bit.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Stopper, one would've thought so.

We'll see. I'll be surprised if anything happens.

SimonStClare

DM – “Muslim protestors demand restaurants and shops stop selling 'evil' alcohol warning them they face 40 lashes if they carry on”

A bit disconcerting as this is Brick Lane in London, - but is it not a public order offense as verbal threats of violence are illegal?

AndreaParma_82

Coventry North East (maj 27.1%, Bob Ainsworth retiring) selection is won by Colleen Fletcher. She's a local Cllr: first joined the council in 1992 until 2000, then came back in 2002 until 2004 and for a third time in 2011.

Stark_Dawning

Neil said:

Stark_Dawning said:

The British liberal establishment's capitulation to the bigotry of alien religious fanatics is shocking to be behold.

What form has this capitulation taken?

Bending over backwards to accommodate demands for gender apartheid at public events (see header above). Or are you going to tell us it's all an invention of the Daily Mail?

Ninoinoz

JohnLilburne said:

On topic, there is one important consideration when discussing whether events at universities should be segregated by sex: university students are adults, and can sit where they damned well like. If someone tries to run a sex-segregated event they can be told - you can try, but it can't be enforced.

Oh yes it can. Stewards can remove the offenders.

Have you heard of the concept of 'bouncers'?

john_zims

@SimonStClare

'A bit disconcerting as this is Brick Lane in London, - but is it not a public order offense as verbal threats of violence are illegal?'

Yes,for everyone else.

Ninoinoz

Stark_Dawning said:

The British liberal establishment's capitulation to the bigotry of alien religious fanatics is shocking to be behold.

Not really. As has been commented frequently here, they are completely cut off from the rest of society and have no ideology higher than retaining their privileges or increasing them.

So when they come across a choice between increasing their own power (e.g. pandering to Muslims to retain or get their vote) or trashing the Working Classes, it's a no-brainer for them.

I've noticed David Cameron doing the same to Christians in this country and, worse, the Middle East.

GeoffM

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Stopper, one would've thought so.

We'll see. I'll be surprised if anything happens.

If the story doesn't go away in a few weeks then the police will arrest someone utterly trivial and inconsequential in the scheme of things; claim it's a triumph of their secret crime-stopping master-plan and that it's now all fixed.

JohnLilburne

Ninoinoz said:

JohnLilburne said:

On topic, there is one important consideration when discussing whether events at universities should be segregated by sex: university students are adults, and can sit where they damned well like. If someone tries to run a sex-segregated event they can be told - you can try, but it can't be enforced.

Oh yes it can. Stewards can remove the offenders.

Have you heard of the concept of 'bouncers'?

How would they do it? You can't use force to eject someone who is sitting in the wrong place, it's called "assault".

richardDodd

Nino..Got any instances of Cameron trashing the Christians, here and in the Middle east.

Pulpstar

Beating around the edges of serious cases of abuse in order to be seen as PC is another.

Ninoinoz

TheWatcher said:

I see Anjem Choudhary is up to his old tricks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2523658/Muslim-campaigners-protest-sale-alcohol-popular-East-London-area.html

Some aspects of this are indeed illegal (40 lashes?), he and his followers are allowed to stage a march and campaign for the ban on sale of alcohol. What's more, with licences being granted by the local authority, they may well succeed. I was up in Bethnal Green in October and my walk to the tube station was made unpleasant by drunks, vomit and public urination.

As mentioned in my earlier posts, allowing immigrants into this country will change it. Don't start complaining when it starts to affect you.

Pulpstar

Evening GeoffM, keep the faith

GeoffM

JohnLilburne said:

Ninoinoz said:

JohnLilburne said:

On topic, there is one important consideration when discussing whether events at universities should be segregated by sex: university students are adults, and can sit where they damned well like. If someone tries to run a sex-segregated event they can be told - you can try, but it can't be enforced.

Oh yes it can. Stewards can remove the offenders.

Have you heard of the concept of 'bouncers'?

How would they do it? You can't use force to eject someone who is sitting in the wrong place, it's called "assault".

Perhaps check with Walter Wolfgang for details of how that works in practice.

Pulpstar

AndreaParma_82 said:

Coventry North East (maj 27.1%, Bob Ainsworth retiring) selection is won by Colleen Fletcher. She's a local Cllr: first joined the council in 1992 until 2000, then came back in 2002 until 2004 and for a third time in 2011.

I think the Conservatives will go for Noonan again, Gary Ridley for Northwest again and hmm maybe Allan Andrews for Coventry South.

Pulpstar

And as a leftfield shout I wonder if Jon Gaunt will run for UKIP in one of the Coventry seats...

GeoffM

Pulpstar said:

Evening GeoffM, keep the faith

I'm in deep trouble if there's a lower order England fightback and an Oz collapse but realistically that's not looking to be a worry I did stay up into the night tinkering on Betfair in-play though and came out in slightly positive territory.

Another innings goes by and my double century ticket looks more and more useless.

Raceclear haven't exactly contributed to the mortgage repayment fund today either. Ahem.

JohnLilburne

GeoffM said:

JohnLilburne said:

Ninoinoz said:

JohnLilburne said:

On topic, there is one important consideration when discussing whether events at universities should be segregated by sex: university students are adults, and can sit where they damned well like. If someone tries to run a sex-segregated event they can be told - you can try, but it can't be enforced.

Oh yes it can. Stewards can remove the offenders.

Have you heard of the concept of 'bouncers'?

How would they do it? You can't use force to eject someone who is sitting in the wrong place, it's called "assault".

Perhaps check with Walter Wolfgang for details of how that works in practice.

The stewards should have been prosecuted for assault.

There is a difference, in that a political party is allowed to decide who attends its events. If a university makes it clear that it imposes no rules on seating in events that take place on its premises, then I am not sure that event stewards would have any authority to try to impose them. In any case, if you are just sitting quietly in an event that you are allowed to attend (eg a public meeting) I would hope that a court would regard it as unreasonable to use force to eject you.

SouthamObserver

Pulpstar said:

And as a leftfield shout I wonder if Jon Gaunt will run for UKIP in one of the Coventry seats...

UKIP may want to wait a bit on that. There are certain ongoing investigations into certain things involving certain regional police federations Gaunty has advised. But as a Sun journalist he sure knows the power of certain words when alleged to have been uttered by certain kinds of people, that's for sure.

SouthamObserver

I am in the grim North. It is dark and cold, but I'm extremely excited about having a few pints of Tetleys tonight.

Ninoinoz

richardDodd said:

Nino..Got any instances of Cameron trashing the Christians, here and in the Middle east.

In the Middle East? Syria, for starters.

Here? (Remember the context was pandering to minorities) Gay Marriage. The way he panders to a noisy but demographically weak group shows his utter cluelessness. That Christians were also expected to spearhead his Big Society just compounded the impression. Labour at least panders to a large and fast-growing group.

Just look at the bottom of the cartoon. That did make me chuckle.

maaarsh

JohnLilburne said:

GeoffM said:

JohnLilburne said:

Ninoinoz said:

JohnLilburne said:

On topic, there is one important consideration when discussing whether events at universities should be segregated by sex: university students are adults, and can sit where they damned well like. If someone tries to run a sex-segregated event they can be told - you can try, but it can't be enforced.

Oh yes it can. Stewards can remove the offenders.

Have you heard of the concept of 'bouncers'?

How would they do it? You can't use force to eject someone who is sitting in the wrong place, it's called "assault".

Perhaps check with Walter Wolfgang for details of how that works in practice.

The stewards should have been prosecuted for assault.

There is a difference, in that a political party is allowed to decide who attends its events. If a university makes it clear that it imposes no rules on seating in events that take place on its premises, then I am not sure that event stewards would have any authority to try to impose them. In any case, if you are just sitting quietly in an event that you are allowed to attend (eg a public meeting) I would hope that a court would regard it as unreasonable to use force to eject you.

So you can't have rules requiring segregation, because without rules requiring segregation you wouldn't be able to enforce segregation.

Most persuasive.

Gaius

SeanT said:

Re that wanker Choudhary, I can't see why he isn't prosecuted: threatening shopkeepers with 40 lashes is surely an offence (breach of the peace?), likewise praising the Muslims who assaulted the drinkers sounds very much like incitement to violence.

Just take him off the streets and lock him up for a few years. The man is a menace. How hard is this stuff? Grrr.

If a white guy went around loudly praising people who assaulted Muslims he'd be in Wormwood Scrubs by Monday morning.

Exactly, what are the local plod waiting for, Choudrey could be arrested for numerous offences.

OTOH, its more good news for UKIP.

richardDodd

Nino.. those are not examples ,just your opinions...can you provide examples please..its the way it is supposed to be done on PB..
Are the people who had a gay marriage not Christians also..

Neil

Ninoinoz said:

Here? ... Gay Marriage.

You seem to have misunderstood the gay marriage legislation, it's not being forced on Christians, it's entirely voluntary.

AndreaParma_82

Liz Saville Roberts is selected by Plaid to replace retiring Elfyn Llwyd in Dwyfor Meirionnydd (22% maj over Con). She's a local Cllr

Neil

Gaius said:

Exactly, what are the local plod waiting for, Choudrey could be arrested for numerous offences.

If they're not all too busy reporting people for using the wrong words on twitter maybe a Tory MP will ask the police to investigate?

SouthamObserver

malcolmg said:

FPT , interesting site re Catalonia debate, http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/

Good article, except I think he's wrong about an overwhelming majority of Catalans wanting independence. Polls send very mixed messages on that. But the Basque option - Devomax plus - would probably end significant support for secession. That won't happen until there's a change of government in Madrid.

GeoffM

AndreaParma_82 said:

Liz Saville Roberts is selected by Plaid to replace retiring Elfyn Llwyd in Dwyfor Meirionnydd (22% maj over Con). She's a local Cllr

That's a depressingly suburban housewife-ish name to follow on from someone named after an extra in Lord of the Rings.

isam

SeanT said:

Re that wanker Choudhary, I can't see why he isn't prosecuted: threatening shopkeepers with 40 lashes is surely an offence (breach of the peace?), likewise praising the Muslims who assaulted the drinkers sounds very much like incitement to violence.

Just take him off the streets and lock him up for a few years. The man is a menace. How hard is this stuff? Grrr.

If a white guy went around loudly praising people who assaulted Muslims he'd be in Wormwood Scrubs by Monday morning.

Like the Welsh guy who got arrested for selling t shirts? You blogged about that didnt you?

Its a joke, and the luvvies that let it happen are putting a match to gunpowder

Read "The Road To National Suicide" speech by Enoch Powell.. he predicts exactly this, that extremists on each side will poison neighbourhoods and in the middle will be apologist for the immigrants refusing to condemn them

AndreaParma_82

She beat Mabon ap Gwynfor, Gwynfor Owen, Dyfed Edwards, John Gillibrand and Mandy Williams-Davies

GeoffM said:

AndreaParma_82 said:

Liz Saville Roberts is selected by Plaid to replace retiring Elfyn Llwyd in Dwyfor Meirionnydd (22% maj over Con). She's a local Cllr

That's a depressingly suburban housewife-ish name to follow on from someone named after an extra in Lord of the Rings.

isam

I tried to frame a bet with @tim on UKIP winning the London Elections white working class Brits vote share, don't know if we managed to agree it or not?

Neil

isam said:

I tried to frame a bet with @tim on UKIP winning the London Elections white working class Brits vote share, don't know if we managed to agree it or not?

Where were you going to get the results from?

Bobajob

GeoffM said:

Pulpstar said:

Evening GeoffM, keep the faith

I'm in deep trouble if there's a lower order England fightback and an Oz collapse but realistically that's not looking to be a worry I did stay up into the night tinkering on Betfair in-play though and came out in slightly positive territory.

Another innings goes by and my double century ticket looks more and more useless.

Raceclear haven't exactly contributed to the mortgage repayment fund today either. Ahem.

Wash your mouth out Geoff. Tsk.

I'm an Englishman and I'm backing England to turn this around*

*hope more than expectation but I am getting up at 2.30am to watch the first session.

AndyJS

Interesting facts for those who want to see less white men in the Commons:

21 retiring MPs have so far had their replacements selected.
17 of those retiring MPs are white men.
7 of the replacements are white men.

6 of the 7 are Tories, the exception being Matthew Pennycook in Greenwich & Woolwich.

isam

Neil said:

isam said:

I tried to frame a bet with @tim on UKIP winning the London Elections white working class Brits vote share, don't know if we managed to agree it or not?

Where were you going to get the results from?

I think that was the stumbling block

Neil

AndyJS said:

Interesting facts for those who want to see less white men in the Commons:

21 retiring MPs have so far had their replacements selected.
17 of those retiring MPs are white men.
7 of the replacements are white men.

How many of the 10 are a result of Labour AWS?

Sean_F

AndreaParma_82 said:

She beat Mabon ap Gwynfor, Gwynfor Owen, Dyfed Edwards, John Gillibrand and Mandy Williams-Davies

GeoffM said:

AndreaParma_82 said:

Liz Saville Roberts is selected by Plaid to replace retiring Elfyn Llwyd in Dwyfor Meirionnydd (22% maj over Con). She's a local Cllr

That's a depressingly suburban housewife-ish name to follow on from someone named after an extra in Lord of the Rings.

Mabon ap Gwynfor sounds like a character from A Game of Thrones

MikeK

AndyJS said:

Interesting facts for those who want to see less white men in the Commons:

21 retiring MPs have so far had their replacements selected.
17 of those retiring MPs are white men.
7 of the replacements are white men.

How come you picked this up as interesting? Is it true that you want to see less white men/women (aka native born of norman/anglo-saxon/celt, decent) in the house of commons?
If so, why?

Pulpstar

Eng 5.5/5.6
Aus 1.64/1.65
The Draw 4.7/4.8

The clear cut move last night was to back the draw then lay off. Not so sure about this evening.

Sean_F

Neil said:

isam said:

I tried to frame a bet with @tim on UKIP winning the London Elections white working class Brits vote share, don't know if we managed to agree it or not?

Where were you going to get the results from?

You could make an educated guess, but it would be no more than that.

I think UKIP will do very well in Havering (aided by the implosion of Romford Conservatives) Dagenham, Bexley, Bromley, and parts of Sutton, Hillingdon, and Croydon.

AndreaParma_82

7 AWS Labour women (including 1 BAME)
2 Con women (including 1 BAME)
1 Plaid woman
3 LD women
1 BAME Con man

Neil said:

AndyJS said:

Interesting facts for those who want to see less white men in the Commons:

21 retiring MPs have so far had their replacements selected.
17 of those retiring MPs are white men.
7 of the replacements are white men.

How many of the 10 are a result of Labour AWS?

TheWatcher

Ninoinoz said:

richardDodd said:

Nino..Got any instances of Cameron trashing the Christians, here and in the Middle east.

In the Middle East? Syria, for starters.

Here? (Remember the context was pandering to minorities) Gay Marriage. The way he panders to a noisy but demographically weak group shows his utter cluelessness. That Christians were also expected to spearhead his Big Society just compounded the impression. Labour at least panders to a large and fast-growing group.

Just look at the bottom of the cartoon. That did make me chuckle.

Ah, 'Big Society'. Now who else mentions that around here?

AndyJS

Neil said:

AndyJS said:

Interesting facts for those who want to see less white men in the Commons:

21 retiring MPs have so far had their replacements selected.
17 of those retiring MPs are white men.
7 of the replacements are white men.

How many of the 10 are a result of Labour AWS?

I think all 4 of the Labour male->female replacements were AWS. (3 others are women replacing women).

The LDs have selected Julie Pörksen to replace Alan Beith, and Lisa Smart to take over from Andrew Stunell.

The Conservatives have chosen Nusrat Ghani to replace Charles Hendry, and Lucy Frazer to replace Jim Paice.

AndyJS

MikeK said:

AndyJS said:

Interesting facts for those who want to see less white men in the Commons:

21 retiring MPs have so far had their replacements selected.
17 of those retiring MPs are white men.
7 of the replacements are white men.

How come you picked this up as interesting? Is it true that you want to see less white men/women (aka native born of norman/anglo-saxon/celt, decent) in the house of commons?
If so, why?

I don't mind either way, but I know other people care about this sort of thing.

Sean_F

SeanT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Stopper, one would've thought so.

We'll see. I'll be surprised if anything happens.

Remember "racist tram woman"? That sad, drunk single mother in Croydon who ranted about immigrants? She was very unpleasant but did not actually threaten violence; yet she was immediately arrested and spent several weeks remanded in custody.

Choudary, by contrast, clearly incites violence, praises terrorists, applauds racist assaults, and stokes ethnic hatred - and walks the streets untouched.

It's just f*cking ridiculous. I may do a blog comparing them.

I think that would make a good blog post.

AndyJS

Loic Rich, deputy mayor of Truro, to contest Truro & Falmouth as an independent:

http://www.westbriton.co.uk/Candidates-line-Truro-Falmouth-general-election/story-20303415-detail/story.html

AlastairMeeks

Anyone who has been to Brick Lane will know just how unlikely it is that it will go dry.

Sean_F

AndyJS said:

MikeK said:

AndyJS said:

Interesting facts for those who want to see less white men in the Commons:

21 retiring MPs have so far had their replacements selected.
17 of those retiring MPs are white men.
7 of the replacements are white men.

How come you picked this up as interesting? Is it true that you want to see less white men/women (aka native born of norman/anglo-saxon/celt, decent) in the house of commons?
If so, why?

I don't mind either way, but I know other people care about this sort of thing.

In some circles, being White and Male is like being a Kulak.

AndreaParma_82

The Labour woman selected in Coventry NE this afternoon is already 58 years old. So she will enter the Commons at 60.
Possibly the oldest PPC selected to replace a retiring MP so far in this parliament. In 2015 we had older people entering the Commons for the first time.

Pulpstar

Shifted my green to England:

Aus +1.33
Eng +78.85
Draw +0.86

Now come on Bell make that century

AndyJS

"Tributes paid to Lord Roberts of Conwy who has died aged 83

The peer, who served in the Thatcher and Major governments, was 'arguably the greatest Welshman of his generation' said Welsh Secretary David Jones":

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/lord-roberts-conwy-died-age-6405283

Sean_F

antifrank said:

Anyone who has been to Brick Lane will know just how unlikely it is that it will go dry.

Have you ever visited the restaurant that has a mural of Princess Diana's head bursting out of the River Ganges?

AndyJS

Someone ought to organise an experiment where one person walks around the streets of central London pretending to be a Muslim fanatic, spouting the usual hatreds against Christian, Jews, etc. and another person walks around making incredibly mild complaints about fanatical Muslims, to see who gets arrested first.

Ninoinoz

richardDodd said:

Nino.. those are not examples ,just your opinions...can you provide examples please..its the way it is supposed to be done on PB..
Are the people who had a gay marriage not Christians also..

Syria not an example? I think we are going to be in difficulties here ........

I trust you agree that the British Government attempted to undermine the Syrian Government and then overthrow it, or was that defeat for Cameron in the House of Commons just "my opinion".

Christian minorities in the Middle East (Iraq, Egypt, Syria) crave stability. A fall of a government leads to a (perhaps temporary) breakdown in law and order, which is lethal to small minority communities.

Here are examples:

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/12/12/syrian-bishop-appeals-for-release-of-kidnapped-nuns/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2352251/Horrific-video-shows-Syrian-Catholic-priest-beheaded-jihadist-fighters-cheering-crowd.html

Note that Cameron's Government is officially supporting the perpetrators.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/15/uk-syrian-opposition-william-hague

Getting the sources for this posting has put any difficulties Christians have in this country into perspective, but has convinced be why 'Clueless Dave' will easily lose the next election.

GeoffM

Bobajob said:

GeoffM said:

Pulpstar said:

Evening GeoffM, keep the faith

I'm in deep trouble if there's a lower order England fightback and an Oz collapse but realistically that's not looking to be a worry I did stay up into the night tinkering on Betfair in-play though and came out in slightly positive territory.

Another innings goes by and my double century ticket looks more and more useless.

Raceclear haven't exactly contributed to the mortgage repayment fund today either. Ahem.

Wash your mouth out Geoff. Tsk.

I'm an Englishman and I'm backing England to turn this around*

*hope more than expectation but I am getting up at 2.30am to watch the first session.

But I'm a Gibraltarian gambler so I'm just chasing the money rather than a result. I'll be awake to watch it too, though, as a fan of the great game.

I think the last time Gib won anything overseas was Miss World 2009

Gerry_Mander

AndyJS said:

Someone ought to organise an experiment where one person walks around the streets of central London pretending to be a Muslim fanatic, spouting the usual hatreds against Christian, Jews, etc. and another person walks around making incredibly mild complaints about fanatical Muslims, to see who gets arrested first.

Alternatively, a Muslim spouting hatreds against Jews, and a white skinhead using the same words. That way there can be no argument over the words used.

AndyJS

What happens if you stop teaching facts and figures to schoolchildren?

This:

twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/411803705080422402

GeoffM

Pulpstar said:

Shifted my green to England:

Aus +1.33
Eng +78.85
Draw +0.86

Now come on Bell make that century

A double century. Remember - that's what we need. Focus on that.
For the sake of my children getting Christmas presents, food on the table etc etc.

Morris_Dancer

Good evening, everyone.

Mr. Observer, it's slightly cold and horrid right now. Well, here it is, anyway.

Mr. T, an excellent idea for a blog.

Mr. Ninoinoz, Cameron is not responsible for the medieval style war crimes being perpetrated in Syria, or the persecution of Christians. As for 'persecuting' them here by putting through gay marriage: marriage is not the property of Christianity, nor are all Christians against gay marriage.

GeoffM

AndyJS said:

"Tributes paid to Lord Roberts of Conwy who has died aged 83

The peer, who served in the Thatcher and Major governments, was 'arguably the greatest Welshman of his generation' said Welsh Secretary David Jones":

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/lord-roberts-conwy-died-age-6405283

I liked David Jones' line in the obit on CHome: Although he had many political opponents, he had few, if any, foes.

MrJones

SeanT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Stopper, one would've thought so.

We'll see. I'll be surprised if anything happens.

Remember "racist tram woman"? That sad, drunk single mother in Croydon who ranted about immigrants? She was very unpleasant but did not actually threaten violence; yet she was immediately arrested and spent several weeks remanded in custody.

Choudary, by contrast, clearly incites violence, praises terrorists, applauds racist assaults, and stokes ethnic hatred - and walks the streets untouched.

It's just f*cking ridiculous. I may do a blog comparing them.

"yet she was immediately arrested and spent several weeks remanded in custody."

She's had a lot more than that cos she opted for a jury trial and a not guilty plea so they've been postponing the court case (six times so far IIRC) and persecuting her ever since and trying to get her committed and take her kid as a way to get her to change her plea. The last postponement was April or May this year (again IIRC I may have missed another postponement since).

AndyJS

MrJones said:

SeanT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Stopper, one would've thought so.

We'll see. I'll be surprised if anything happens.

Remember "racist tram woman"? That sad, drunk single mother in Croydon who ranted about immigrants? She was very unpleasant but did not actually threaten violence; yet she was immediately arrested and spent several weeks remanded in custody.

Choudary, by contrast, clearly incites violence, praises terrorists, applauds racist assaults, and stokes ethnic hatred - and walks the streets untouched.

It's just f*cking ridiculous. I may do a blog comparing them.

"yet she was immediately arrested and spent several weeks remanded in custody."

She's had a lot more than that cos she opted for a jury trial and a not guilty plea so they've been postponing the court case (six times so far IIRC) and persecuting her ever since and trying to get her committed and take her kid as a way to get her to change her plea. The last postponement was April or May this year (again IIRC I may have missed another postponement since).

She's clearly the victim of politically motivated persecution IMO.

NickPalmer

SeanT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Stopper, one would've thought so.

We'll see. I'll be surprised if anything happens.

Remember "racist tram woman"? That sad, drunk single mother in Croydon who ranted about immigrants? She was very unpleasant but did not actually threaten violence; yet she was immediately arrested and spent several weeks remanded in custody.

Choudary, by contrast, clearly incites violence, praises terrorists, applauds racist assaults, and stokes ethnic hatred - and walks the streets untouched.

It's just f*cking ridiculous. I may do a blog comparing them.

Anyone who threatens violence should indeed be prosecuted IMO. But there is a clear mutual benefit derived by the tabloids and Choudhary - he knows that if he says something outrageous he'll get lavish coverage, they give it to him because it sells papers. I remember his thoughts on something or other once got a full front page in the Express, and here he is again holding forth, courtesy of the Mail. Do they give you or me or anyone else who is sometimes vaguely sensible (note the compliment!) the opportunity to splash our views?

There are a number of people in Britain who basically appear to be bonkers. None of them should get any media attention whatever, except on page 17 to say they've been prosecuted if they actually break the law.

MrJones

isam said:

I tried to frame a bet with @tim on UKIP winning the London Elections white working class Brits vote share, don't know if we managed to agree it or not?

You want to be careful with bets like that as in a lot of places the people left behind totally gave up years ago. It's only in the outer ring that Ukip are likely to do well imo.

Pulpstar

Off out to a Michelin * restaurant this evening. Poshest meal ever !

richardDodd

Nino .. No I dont agree.. I see no evidence as you claim that Cameron is trashing Christians in this country or the Middle East..but stay locked into your irrational opinions .. it is what Lefties do..

isam

NickPalmer said:

SeanT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Stopper, one would've thought so.

We'll see. I'll be surprised if anything happens.

Remember "racist tram woman"? That sad, drunk single mother in Croydon who ranted about immigrants? She was very unpleasant but did not actually threaten violence; yet she was immediately arrested and spent several weeks remanded in custody.

Choudary, by contrast, clearly incites violence, praises terrorists, applauds racist assaults, and stokes ethnic hatred - and walks the streets untouched.

It's just f*cking ridiculous. I may do a blog comparing them.

Anyone who threatens violence should indeed be prosecuted IMO. But there is a clear mutual benefit derived by the tabloids and Choudhary - he knows that if he says something outrageous he'll get lavish coverage, they give it to him because it sells papers. I remember his thoughts on something or other once got a full front page in the Express, and here he is again holding forth, courtesy of the Mail. Do they give you or me or anyone else who is sometimes vaguely sensible (note the compliment!) the opportunity to splash our views?

There are a number of people in Britain who basically appear to be bonkers. None of them should get any media attention whatever, except on page 17 to say they've been prosecuted if they actually break the law.

Good God.

Why don't more Labour party members, MPs, Ex MPs, whoever, stop the mealy mouthed bullshit and just say "Yes, I think xxx xxxx should be locked up" without insulting the intelligence of us all by letting us know that anyone who does it should be?

Its just a long way of saying "its not only muslims you know", and the sort of behaviour that I think will (hopefully) lose them a lot of votes from the type of person that used to consider themselves a Labour man/woman

MrJones

AndyJS said:

MrJones said:

SeanT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Stopper, one would've thought so.

We'll see. I'll be surprised if anything happens.

Remember "racist tram woman"? That sad, drunk single mother in Croydon who ranted about immigrants? She was very unpleasant but did not actually threaten violence; yet she was immediately arrested and spent several weeks remanded in custody.

Choudary, by contrast, clearly incites violence, praises terrorists, applauds racist assaults, and stokes ethnic hatred - and walks the streets untouched.

It's just f*cking ridiculous. I may do a blog comparing them.

"yet she was immediately arrested and spent several weeks remanded in custody."

She's had a lot more than that cos she opted for a jury trial and a not guilty plea so they've been postponing the court case (six times so far IIRC) and persecuting her ever since and trying to get her committed and take her kid as a way to get her to change her plea. The last postponement was April or May this year (again IIRC I may have missed another postponement since).

She's clearly the victim of politically motivated persecution IMO.

Indeed.

Ninoinoz

Morris_Dancer said:

Good evening, everyone.
Mr. Ninoinoz, Cameron is not responsible for the medieval style war crimes being perpetrated in Syria, or the persecution of Christians. As for 'persecuting' them here by putting through gay marriage: marriage is not the property of Christianity, nor are all Christians against gay marriage.

Cameron is responsible for trying to bring down the legitimate government of Syria. He is therefore at least partly responsible for the chaos and mayhem resulting from that policy.

As for gay "marriage" not being anti-Christian, I await the lawsuit against churches.

To segue into another argument on this thread, I note that illegal Muslim marriages (i.e. most of them) are left unprosecuted. I somehow think this will not be true of churches.

isam

MrJones said:

isam said:

I tried to frame a bet with @tim on UKIP winning the London Elections white working class Brits vote share, don't know if we managed to agree it or not?

You want to be careful with bets like that as in a lot of places the people left behind totally gave up years ago. It's only in the outer ring that Ukip are likely to do well imo.

Yes, and also a lot of the white Brit population in London are "immigrants" from the rest of England and the UK, who are totally ok with places that used to be communities being ripped apart in the name of diversity, because they don't think of it as "home" its just a place they live at the moment

Morris_Dancer

No, he isn't, Mr. Ninoinoz. The Syrian people began a civil protest movement which escalated into civil war. Claiming Cameron's responsible for the Syrian civil war is bonkers.

I fear there will be lawsuits against churches. Unfortunately the rights agenda that seems to hold sway is less about common sense compromise and more about a pissing contest of whose rights matter more.

Neil

Ninoinoz said:

As for gay "marriage" not being anti-Christian, I await the lawsuit against churches.

How is gay marriage anti-Christian but not anti-Muslim?

Pulpstar

NickPalmer said:

SeanT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Stopper, one would've thought so.

We'll see. I'll be surprised if anything happens.

Remember "racist tram woman"? That sad, drunk single mother in Croydon who ranted about immigrants? She was very unpleasant but did not actually threaten violence; yet she was immediately arrested and spent several weeks remanded in custody.

Choudary, by contrast, clearly incites violence, praises terrorists, applauds racist assaults, and stokes ethnic hatred - and walks the streets untouched.

It's just f*cking ridiculous. I may do a blog comparing them.

Anyone who threatens violence should indeed be prosecuted IMO. But there is a clear mutual benefit derived by the tabloids and Choudhary - he knows that if he says something outrageous he'll get lavish coverage, they give it to him because it sells papers. I remember his thoughts on something or other once got a full front page in the Express, and here he is again holding forth, courtesy of the Mail. Do they give you or me or anyone else who is sometimes vaguely sensible (note the compliment!) the opportunity to splash our views?

There are a number of people in Britain who basically appear to be bonkers. None of them should get any media attention whatever, except on page 17 to say they've been prosecuted if they actually break the law.

Although utterly distasteful Choudhary can protest about what he likes.

However from the mail article "warned restaurants and shops in the Brick Lane area that they face 40 lashes if they continue to sell the product" that by my book is hate speech

"Hate speech is, outside the law, communication that vilifies a person or a group based on discrimination against that person or group.[1][2]"against off license owners and staff.

It should be dealth with as such, and the book thrown at Choudhary.

maaarsh

Neil said:

Ninoinoz said:

As for gay "marriage" not being anti-Christian, I await the lawsuit against churches.

How is gay marriage anti-Christian but not anti-Muslim?

In practical terms, because the Gay rights crowd won't have the courage of their convictions to challenge the group more prone to violent threats and actions.

taffys

Imagine you are a brick lane shopkeeper. Would you be bricking it that one night a few masked guys are going to break into your house and give you forty lashes?? or worse??