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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Results : December 12th 2013

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited December 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Results : December 12th 2013

Hornby Castle on Richmondshire (Con Defence)
Result: Conservative 127 (46%), Independent 98 (36%), United Kingdom Independence Party 50 (18%)
Conservative HOLD with a majority of 29 (10%)

Read the full story here


Comments

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited December 2013
    First?

    Edit: Iver Village and Richings Park, eh? *chortle*
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Where is the Aylesbury result ?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Did the Liberals put up a child molester in Iver ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    surbiton said:

    Where is the Aylesbury result ?

    It's been ducked for some reason.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    surbiton said:

    Did the Liberals put up a child molester in Iver ?

    Surby

    I think you are muddling the Liberals with the BBC.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    AveryLP said:

    surbiton said:

    Did the Liberals put up a child molester in Iver ?

    Surby

    I think you are muddling the Liberals with the BBC.
    Have you seen the swing ? It's off the swingometer.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    surbiton said:

    AveryLP said:

    surbiton said:

    Did the Liberals put up a child molester in Iver ?

    Surby

    I think you are muddling the Liberals with the BBC.
    Have you seen the swing ? It's off the swingometer.
    9.3%

  • surbiton said:

    Did the Liberals put up a child molester in Iver ?

    No the Lib Dem candidate said he liked and supported the leadership and policies of the Two Eds.

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Scott_P said:
    Jérôme Cahuzac is leading, but some good non-parochial candidates in there.
    I have voted...

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    GeoffM said:

    surbiton said:

    AveryLP said:

    surbiton said:

    Did the Liberals put up a child molester in Iver ?

    Surby

    I think you are muddling the Liberals with the BBC.
    Have you seen the swing ? It's off the swingometer.
    9.3%

    Sorry ! It is a Tory gain !! 47 - 11 = 36. It must have been a minimum of 18% swing.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    In both the Tory and Lib Dem [ now Tory ] seat, UKIP has polled strongly averaging 30%. Only in the Labour seat, they polled 10%.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    surbiton said:

    GeoffM said:

    surbiton said:

    AveryLP said:

    surbiton said:

    Did the Liberals put up a child molester in Iver ?

    Surby

    I think you are muddling the Liberals with the BBC.
    Have you seen the swing ? It's off the swingometer.
    9.3%

    Sorry ! It is a Tory gain !! 47 - 11 = 36. It must have been a minimum of 18% swing.
    I'm not sure it's straightforward.
    I think the comparison is from May 2011

    Three seats C 868, LD 772, C 767, 697, LD 462, 419

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited December 2013
    The missing Aylesbury result:

    Lib Dems 584 (51.27%)
    UKIP 324 (28.44%) ANN DAY
    Labour 120 (10.53%)
    Cons 70 (6.7%)
    Green 30 (2.6%)
    22.7% Turnout
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MikeK said:

    The missing Aylesbury result:

    Lib Dems 584 (51.27%)
    UKIP 324 (28.44%) ANN DAY
    Labour 120 (10.53%)
    Cons 70 (6.7%)
    Green 30 (2.6%)
    22.7% Turnout

    What happened to the Tory vote ? So UKIP had another good result. They don't seem to be going away.
  • surbiton said:

    MikeK said:

    The missing Aylesbury result:

    Lib Dems 584 (51.27%)
    UKIP 324 (28.44%) ANN DAY
    Labour 120 (10.53%)
    Cons 70 (6.7%)
    Green 30 (2.6%)
    22.7% Turnout

    What happened to the Tory vote ? So UKIP had another good result. They don't seem to be going away.
    What's up with one nation Labour ? Your rotten party hardly exists outside its self-serving slums.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    That assumes that those who live in 'slums' are happy living there and un-motivated to get out or turn their area into something better.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Y0kel said:

    That assumes that those who live in 'slums' are happy living there and un-motivated to get out or turn their area into something better.

    Don't underestimate how many people genuinely have that as a mindset.

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Call to parent today: 'Hi. Just calling to see why X isn't in school.'

    Parent: 'Isn't he there? Hang on, I'll just check his room.'

    *long silence*

    Parent: 'Hello? Yes. He's still here. He's asleep.'

    'Any chance you could wake him up and send him into school?'

    Parent: 'Well he must be tired. He was still up playing that war game when we went to bed. And that was gone one.'
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    GeoffM said:

    Y0kel said:

    That assumes that those who live in 'slums' are happy living there and un-motivated to get out or turn their area into something better.

    Don't underestimate how many people genuinely have that as a mindset.

    I came from what the chartering classes call a slum. I'm well aware of it. I'm also well aware that there were and are people who put plenty of effort into getting out or for those settled there doing what they could to improve their area. For both I can say it paid off to some extent.

    The irony is that the aspiration nation is apparently natural Tory territory. They need to get on to it and get their asses into those so called slums.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    AveryLP said:

    surbiton said:

    Did the Liberals put up a child molester in Iver ?

    Surby

    I think you are muddling the Liberals with the BBC.
    Are you sure?

    Cyril Smith was indeed a Liberal.
  • Carola said:

    Call to parent today: 'Hi. Just calling to see why X isn't in school.'

    Parent: 'Isn't he there? Hang on, I'll just check his room.'

    *long silence*

    Parent: 'Hello? Yes. He's still here. He's asleep.'

    'Any chance you could wake him up and send him into school?'

    Parent: 'Well he must be tired. He was still up playing that war game when we went to bed. And that was gone one.'

    I had to play truent once, when I got a Play Station One, and stayed up until 4 o'clock in the morning playing Aliens.
    I was 30!
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Y0kel said:

    GeoffM said:

    Y0kel said:

    That assumes that those who live in 'slums' are happy living there and un-motivated to get out or turn their area into something better.

    Don't underestimate how many people genuinely have that as a mindset.

    I came from what the chartering classes call a slum. I'm well aware of it. I'm also well aware that there were and are people who put plenty of effort into getting out or for those settled there doing what they could to improve their area. For both I can say it paid off to some extent.

    The irony is that the aspiration nation is apparently natural Tory territory. They need to get on to it and get their asses into those so called slums.
    I very much agree that both mindsets are real (and that there are many subsets of both, too). It's stupid and insulting to think otherwise. Everyone from whatever background should have the opportunity to go to a grammar school, for example.

    The truth remains, though, that some people have no motivation, aspiration or ambition. Labour rely on those unfortunates to provide their core vote.

  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Evening all. I see the party which is apparently heading for defeat next year and in 2015 held 2 seats yesterday and won a 3rd. I am not a betting man but as Rod Crosby said, time to get behind the Tories.
  • Carola said:

    Call to parent today: 'Hi. Just calling to see why X isn't in school.'

    Parent: 'Isn't he there? Hang on, I'll just check his room.'

    *long silence*

    Parent: 'Hello? Yes. He's still here. He's asleep.'

    'Any chance you could wake him up and send him into school?'

    Parent: 'Well he must be tired. He was still up playing that war game when we went to bed. And that was gone one.'

    Sorry, he was on for a new pb score!! It's nearly Xmas n e way....
  • Back to my console, spurs close to winning the champs league if bale and heskey are fit...
  • Evening all. I see the party which is apparently heading for defeat next year and in 2015 held 2 seats yesterday and won a 3rd. I am not a betting man but as Rod Crosby said, time to get behind the Tories.

    It seems that Rod Crosby and Dr Fisher (Oxon) are well ahead of the curve on the 2015 GE. EdM has all of Foot's weaknesses and none of his strengths.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    Gosh it is quiet on here tonight.

    There are increasing straws in the wind that things are going to get very bumpy early in the new year. There was a very good article by Jeremy Warner a few days ago and now this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10516124/Bank-of-America-advises-China-default-contracts-to-hedge-debt-storm.html

    My guess, since central bankers have screwed almost everything else up in recent times, is that the tapering of the US QE program will be mishandled and that we will have some serious dislocations early in 2014.

    Tories had been not get too full of themselves about the economic recovery. We are better placed than we were but a serious bump in the far east or the EZ or the US could still knock us out of our stride. I just have a feeling that things are going adrift again, not here so much but internationally.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Gosh it is quiet on here tonight.

    I assumed that rcs1000 had blown up the servers again... ;-)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:


    As the father of an only daughter, he was in despair at the failure of the Left to confront Islamism, in particular gender segregation at universities. Indeed he was spitting wild contempt: and it was specifically aimed at Labour ("why is it only Cameron and Gove who speak out against this" - were his exact words).

    @SkyNews: TIMES FRONT PAGE "Universities back down on sexual segregation" #skypapers http://t.co/ylCzu9a1Ir
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Gosh it is quiet on here tonight.

    I assumed that rcs1000 had blown up the servers again... ;-)
    Robert and Mike are resting on their laurels. Best laugh I have had for a while.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    SeanT said:

    ANECDOTE + ALCOHOL ALERT

    Just had drinks with reliably Lefty friend (arty Labour voter into his 40s).

    As the father of an only daughter, he was in despair at the failure of the Left to confront Islamism, in particular gender segregation at universities. Indeed he was spitting wild contempt: and it was specifically aimed at Labour ("why is it only Cameron and Gove who speak out against this" - were his exact words).

    Significance? Probably minor, but the craven and cowardly attitude towards militant Islamism, as displayed by the British Left, is slowly eroding their support in one small but vocal and influential constituency: i.e. haute bourgeois London liberals.

    The silence from Labour on this has been deafening. And shameful.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,632
    @SeanT, etc:

    There is too much tolerance of intolerance in the name of tolerance

    Feel free to quote me
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    SeanT said:

    ANECDOTE + ALCOHOL ALERT

    Just had drinks with reliably Lefty friend (arty Labour voter into his 40s).

    As the father of an only daughter, he was in despair at the failure of the Left to confront Islamism, in particular gender segregation at universities. Indeed he was spitting wild contempt: and it was specifically aimed at Labour ("why is it only Cameron and Gove who speak out against this" - were his exact words).

    Significance? Probably minor, but the craven and cowardly attitude towards militant Islamism, as displayed by the British Left, is slowly eroding their support in one small but vocal and influential constituency: i.e. haute bourgeois London liberals.

    I have been getting family and friends to sign the petition and all, whether of the left or right or no particular views, have been appalled at the very idea that this could even have been contemplated by sentient beings.

    I hope the universities have really backed down but they - and others - need to be watched like hawks to make sure there's no backsliding. The Quakers, for instance, allow their meeting rooms to be used by Islamist speakers preaching violence and anti-semitism. Why? What's the point of posturing about pacifism if you allow your buildings to be used - in return for money - by those preaching violence?

    As for Sean T's friend, why is he surprised? Labour's Mayoral candidate was quite willing to embrace the Islamist preacher, Qaradawi - a man who endorsed suicide bombings, wife beatings, killing of gays and FGM - and provide a public platform for him at our expense. And Labour MPs and would-be MPs (including our own Nick P) were willing to canvass for such a candidate. Labour's record is shameful when it comes to confronting crypto-religious fascists.

    I'd like to thank Morris Dancer for his post for me several threads back. I particularly liked his elegant formulation - "There's a yawning chasm of difference between choice and force."

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,632
    What was the previous result in Aylesbury? And should we care?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    rcs1000 said:

    @SeanT, etc:

    There is too much tolerance of intolerance in the name of tolerance

    Feel free to quote me

    The cynic's definition of a liberal - A man who won't even take his own side in an argument.

    Orwell had the measure of cowardly and pusillanimous pygmies such as our university leaders.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,632
    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @SeanT, etc:

    There is too much tolerance of intolerance in the name of tolerance

    Feel free to quote me

    The cynic's definition of a liberal - A man who won't even take his own side in an argument.

    Orwell had the measure of cowardly and pusillanimous pygmies such as our university leaders.

    My definition of a liberal is a 19th century one: that is, that as much as possible the state should not be involved, beyond education, basic provision of healthcare, enforcement of contracts and law & order.

    To my mind, female genital mutilation is ABH or GBH, and any doctor practicing it should prosecuted. Parents are clearly accessories and should be prosecuted too.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Jack and Harriet make front page of The Mail, something from the back catalogue, and it isn't Grunwick.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @SeanT, etc:

    There is too much tolerance of intolerance in the name of tolerance

    Feel free to quote me

    The cynic's definition of a liberal - A man who won't even take his own side in an argument.

    Orwell had the measure of cowardly and pusillanimous pygmies such as our university leaders.

    My definition of a liberal is a 19th century one: that is, that as much as possible the state should not be involved, beyond education, basic provision of healthcare, enforcement of contracts and law & order.

    To my mind, female genital mutilation is ABH or GBH, and any doctor practicing it should prosecuted. Parents are clearly accessories and should be prosecuted too.
    Girls from those communities at greatest risk of FGM should be inspected on a regular basis by the school nurse. If they have been mutilated, they should be made wards of court until they are adult and their parents prosecuted and the presumption should be that they are responsible. If they wish to bring forward evidence that their daughter was taken away and mutilated without their knowledge then let them bring forward such evidence. Otherwise they are found guilty - a strict liability offence.

    Families doing this must realise that they will lose control of their daughters. Since they do it in order, apparently, to make them marriageable, we need to stop them having such control. It may even be necessary to take the children away from them. But we must take drastic action to stop such barbarity.

    We owe it to the girls, some as young as 4, who suffer the most appalling pain - not just at the time but throughout their lives - as a result of what can only be properly described as barbarism.

  • Evening all.

    Seems a bit pointless worrying about local by-elections or Jack and Harriet, given this:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2523177/Could-universe-collapse-TODAY-Physicists-claim-risk-likely-started.html
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    A few notes on the "segregation" supposedly taken place on UK universities.

    Firstly, they already practise segregation - ever heard of Men's and Women's lavatories.

    Secondly, whatever you may think of them, Muslims pay taxes. Unless public institutions accommodate them and their beliefs, then they have lost the right to public money or money should be made available for Muslims to found their own institutions.

    I must say I am enjoying "liberals" discomfort on this issue. They proclaim tolerance and an open door immigration policy, but then squeal when those immigrants fail to check their religion in at the border. Hilarious.

    Particularly amusingly, they have only just realised this when the liberal bastion of education has been stormed, the rest of the country having had close contact with Muslims and Islam for years and having been derided as "racists" when they have complained.

    For anyone complaining about FGM, please post a link to your posts on male-to-female sex changes, which, of course, involve the removal of the penis and testicles. Also, it most definitely takes place in this country. On the NHS.

    Finally, what ever happened to the multi-culturalists and diversity lovers in this country? They seem to have gone very quiet.
  • DavidL said:

    SeanT said:

    ANECDOTE + ALCOHOL ALERT

    Just had drinks with reliably Lefty friend (arty Labour voter into his 40s).

    As the father of an only daughter, he was in despair at the failure of the Left to confront Islamism, in particular gender segregation at universities. Indeed he was spitting wild contempt: and it was specifically aimed at Labour ("why is it only Cameron and Gove who speak out against this" - were his exact words).

    Significance? Probably minor, but the craven and cowardly attitude towards militant Islamism, as displayed by the British Left, is slowly eroding their support in one small but vocal and influential constituency: i.e. haute bourgeois London liberals.

    The silence from Labour on this has been deafening. And shameful.

    In the real world, of course, both Chuka Umama and Jack Straw spoke up loudly against it before Cameron and Gove did it today.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    edited December 2013
    I did get one bit of amusement out of this nonsense. R5 had a crypto fascist apologist on seeking to use the language of rights to deny the rights of 50 per cent of the population. He explained at one of these events they had a mixed section and that one girl insisted on sitting on her boyfriend's lap. He said, in all seriousness, " I think they were taking the mick".


    Being the BBC the response was not: "ya think???"

    Good on her. These people should not be taken seriously at any point. Their ideas are simply ridiculous.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    surbiton said:

    Did the Liberals put up a child molester in Iver ?

    No. The candidate said he was fond of sheep.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2013

    DavidL said:

    SeanT said:

    ANECDOTE + ALCOHOL ALERT

    Just had drinks with reliably Lefty friend (arty Labour voter into his 40s).

    As the father of an only daughter, he was in despair at the failure of the Left to confront Islamism, in particular gender segregation at universities. Indeed he was spitting wild contempt: and it was specifically aimed at Labour ("why is it only Cameron and Gove who speak out against this" - were his exact words).

    Significance? Probably minor, but the craven and cowardly attitude towards militant Islamism, as displayed by the British Left, is slowly eroding their support in one small but vocal and influential constituency: i.e. haute bourgeois London liberals.

    The silence from Labour on this has been deafening. And shameful.

    In the real world, of course, both Chuka Umama and Jack Straw spoke up loudly against it before Cameron and Gove did it today.

    And this from a labour MP earlier in the week

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/447673/Labour-MP-Simon-Danczuk-Sex-trafficking-crimes-ARE-a-racial-issue

    And this from a former Labour MP

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/15/former-labour-mp-ann-cryer-clames-cultural-practices-from-pakistan_n_3277536.html


    Maybe it's just the southern ones that are luvvies ?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025

    DavidL said:

    SeanT said:

    ANECDOTE + ALCOHOL ALERT

    Just had drinks with reliably Lefty friend (arty Labour voter into his 40s).

    As the father of an only daughter, he was in despair at the failure of the Left to confront Islamism, in particular gender segregation at universities. Indeed he was spitting wild contempt: and it was specifically aimed at Labour ("why is it only Cameron and Gove who speak out against this" - were his exact words).

    Significance? Probably minor, but the craven and cowardly attitude towards militant Islamism, as displayed by the British Left, is slowly eroding their support in one small but vocal and influential constituency: i.e. haute bourgeois London liberals.

    The silence from Labour on this has been deafening. And shameful.

    In the real world, of course, both Chuka Umama and Jack Straw spoke up loudly against it before Cameron and Gove did it today.

    Glad to hear that SO. It did not get a single mention on the BBC. Only Cameron did.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @SeanT, etc:

    There is too much tolerance of intolerance in the name of tolerance

    Feel free to quote me

    The cynic's definition of a liberal - A man who won't even take his own side in an argument.

    Orwell had the measure of cowardly and pusillanimous pygmies such as our university leaders.

    My definition of a liberal is a 19th century one: that is, that as much as possible the state should not be involved, beyond education, basic provision of healthcare, enforcement of contracts and law & order.

    To my mind, female genital mutilation is ABH or GBH, and any doctor practicing it should prosecuted. Parents are clearly accessories and should be prosecuted too.</

    FGM, forced marriage, grooming of under-age girls; these are things that need to be prosecuted vigourously, because they involve the infliction of harm on people who either don't consent, or are too young to give effective consent.

    Seating arrangements in Islamic student societies are a trivial issue, on the other hand.

  • Ninoinoz said:

    A few notes on the "segregation" supposedly taken place on UK universities.

    Firstly, they already practise segregation - ever heard of Men's and Women's lavatories.

    UK law does allow discrimination and segregation if there's a justifiable reason - the best example I can think of is women's refuges, which would totally not work if they were forced to accept men as residents. I suppose one could argue whether segregating women's and men's toilets is justifiable, but what on earth could possibly be the justification for wanting women and men to sit separately at a lecture or conference?
    Ninoinoz said:

    For anyone complaining about FGM, please post a link to your posts on male-to-female sex changes, which, of course, involve the removal of the penis and testicles. Also, it most definitely takes place in this country. On the NHS.

    Huh? Sex changes - carried out on consenting adults after much counselling and a long period (something like two years?) of living as the 'new' gender.

    FGM - done on children, often pre-school.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited December 2013
    Ninoinoz said:

    A few notes on the "segregation" supposedly taken place on UK universities.

    Firstly, they already practise segregation - ever heard of Men's and Women's lavatories.

    Secondly, whatever you may think of them, Muslims pay taxes. Unless public institutions accommodate them and their beliefs, then they have lost the right to public money or money should be made available for Muslims to found their own institutions.

    I must say I am enjoying "liberals" discomfort on this issue. They proclaim tolerance and an open door immigration policy, but then squeal when those immigrants fail to check their religion in at the border. Hilarious.

    Particularly amusingly, they have only just realised this when the liberal bastion of education has been stormed, the rest of the country having had close contact with Muslims and Islam for years and having been derided as "racists" when they have complained.

    For anyone complaining about FGM, please post a link to your posts on male-to-female sex changes, which, of course, involve the removal of the penis and testicles. Also, it most definitely takes place in this country. On the NHS.

    Finally, what ever happened to the multi-culturalists and diversity lovers in this country? They seem to have gone very quiet.

    The arguments pretty weak if you're forced to used 'lavatories' to make a point.

    Muslims may well pay takes, but they should do so under the firm belief that they're required to obey the laws and customs within this country. I wouldn't expect otherwise if I lived in Jeddah or Islamabad. If it's an issue, then perhaps one should consider residing elsewhere.

    Those undergoing sex changes do so voluntarily - it's their choice. Do the young girls being forcibly mutilated have any option? Somehow I doubt it. It's an abhorrent act, and those inflicting such injuries on children should be prosecuted accordingly

  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    SeanT said:

    ANECDOTE + ALCOHOL ALERT

    Just had drinks with reliably Lefty friend (arty Labour voter into his 40s).

    As the father of an only daughter, he was in despair at the failure of the Left to confront Islamism, in particular gender segregation at universities. Indeed he was spitting wild contempt: and it was specifically aimed at Labour ("why is it only Cameron and Gove who speak out against this" - were his exact words).

    Significance? Probably minor, but the craven and cowardly attitude towards militant Islamism, as displayed by the British Left, is slowly eroding their support in one small but vocal and influential constituency: i.e. haute bourgeois London liberals.

    The silence from Labour on this has been deafening. And shameful.

    In the real world, of course, both Chuka Umama and Jack Straw spoke up loudly against it before Cameron and Gove did it today.

    Glad to hear that SO. It did not get a single mention on the BBC. Only Cameron did.

    It was reported by the BBC at the time. Chuka is mentioned in the online BBC report about Cameron and Gove. I haven't seen the TV news, so maybe they didn't mention it on that. It's a bigger deal when the government gets involved though.

  • isam said:

    DavidL said:

    SeanT said:

    ANECDOTE + ALCOHOL ALERT

    Just had drinks with reliably Lefty friend (arty Labour voter into his 40s).

    As the father of an only daughter, he was in despair at the failure of the Left to confront Islamism, in particular gender segregation at universities. Indeed he was spitting wild contempt: and it was specifically aimed at Labour ("why is it only Cameron and Gove who speak out against this" - were his exact words).

    Significance? Probably minor, but the craven and cowardly attitude towards militant Islamism, as displayed by the British Left, is slowly eroding their support in one small but vocal and influential constituency: i.e. haute bourgeois London liberals.

    The silence from Labour on this has been deafening. And shameful.

    In the real world, of course, both Chuka Umama and Jack Straw spoke up loudly against it before Cameron and Gove did it today.

    And this from a labour MP earlier in the week

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/447673/Labour-MP-Simon-Danczuk-Sex-trafficking-crimes-ARE-a-racial-issue

    And this from a former Labour MP

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/15/former-labour-mp-ann-cryer-clames-cultural-practices-from-pakistan_n_3277536.html


    Maybe it's just the southern ones that are luvvies ?

    The Livingstone Left is addicted to triangulation and anti-Americanism. It deserves all the criticism it gets.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    Ninoinoz said:

    A few notes on the "segregation" supposedly taken place on UK universities.

    Firstly, they already practise segregation - ever heard of Men's and Women's lavatories.

    Secondly, whatever you may think of them, Muslims pay taxes. Unless public institutions accommodate them and their beliefs, then they have lost the right to public money or money should be made available for Muslims to found their own institutions.

    I must say I am enjoying "liberals" discomfort on this issue. They proclaim tolerance and an open door immigration policy, but then squeal when those immigrants fail to check their religion in at the border. Hilarious.

    Particularly amusingly, they have only just realised this when the liberal bastion of education has been stormed, the rest of the country having had close contact with Muslims and Islam for years and having been derided as "racists" when they have complained.

    For anyone complaining about FGM, please post a link to your posts on male-to-female sex changes, which, of course, involve the removal of the penis and testicles. Also, it most definitely takes place in this country. On the NHS.

    Finally, what ever happened to the multi-culturalists and diversity lovers in this country? They seem to have gone very quiet.

    The arguments pretty weak if you're forced to used 'lavatories' to make a point.

    Muslims may well pay takes, but they should do so under the firm belief that they're required to obey the laws and customs within this country. I wouldn't expect otherwise if I lived in Jeddah or Islamabad. If it's an issue, then perhaps one should consider living elsewhere.

    Those undergoing sex changes do so voluntarily - it's their choice. Do the young girls being forcibly mutilated have any option? Somehow I doubt it. It's an abhorrent act, and those inflicting such injuries on children should be prosecuted accordingly

    We also have single-sex clubs, societies, gyms, schools etc. To be honest, I think there are bigger fish to fry than seating arrangements in Muslim Student Societies.

  • On another note, I spent the day in the Netherlands. I like it there a lot. What a wonderful language they have.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited December 2013
    Sean_F said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    A few notes on the "segregation" supposedly taken place on UK universities.

    Firstly, they already practise segregation - ever heard of Men's and Women's lavatories.

    Secondly, whatever you may think of them, Muslims pay taxes. Unless public institutions accommodate them and their beliefs, then they have lost the right to public money or money should be made available for Muslims to found their own institutions.

    I must say I am enjoying "liberals" discomfort on this issue. They proclaim tolerance and an open door immigration policy, but then squeal when those immigrants fail to check their religion in at the border. Hilarious.

    Particularly amusingly, they have only just realised this when the liberal bastion of education has been stormed, the rest of the country having had close contact with Muslims and Islam for years and having been derided as "racists" when they have complained.

    For anyone complaining about FGM, please post a link to your posts on male-to-female sex changes, which, of course, involve the removal of the penis and testicles. Also, it most definitely takes place in this country. On the NHS.

    Finally, what ever happened to the multi-culturalists and diversity lovers in this country? They seem to have gone very quiet.

    The arguments pretty weak if you're forced to used 'lavatories' to make a point.

    Muslims may well pay takes, but they should do so under the firm belief that they're required to obey the laws and customs within this country. I wouldn't expect otherwise if I lived in Jeddah or Islamabad. If it's an issue, then perhaps one should consider living elsewhere.

    Those undergoing sex changes do so voluntarily - it's their choice. Do the young girls being forcibly mutilated have any option? Somehow I doubt it. It's an abhorrent act, and those inflicting such injuries on children should be prosecuted accordingly

    We also have single-sex clubs, societies, gyms, schools etc. To be honest, I think there are bigger fish to fry than seating arrangements in Muslim Student Societies.

    If people wish to sit separately on a voluntary basis that's their business; if they're forced to do so, then I'm afraid that's wrong.

    FGM is a very big fish, that needs frying, and stopping now.

  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    Ninoinoz said:

    A few notes on the "segregation" supposedly taken place on UK universities.

    Firstly, they already practise segregation - ever heard of Men's and Women's lavatories.

    Secondly, whatever you may think of them, Muslims pay taxes. Unless public institutions accommodate them and their beliefs, then they have lost the right to public money or money should be made available for Muslims to found their own institutions.

    I must say I am enjoying "liberals" discomfort on this issue. They proclaim tolerance and an open door immigration policy, but then squeal when those immigrants fail to check their religion in at the border. Hilarious.

    Particularly amusingly, they have only just realised this when the liberal bastion of education has been stormed, the rest of the country having had close contact with Muslims and Islam for years and having been derided as "racists" when they have complained.

    For anyone complaining about FGM, please post a link to your posts on male-to-female sex changes, which, of course, involve the removal of the penis and testicles. Also, it most definitely takes place in this country. On the NHS.

    Finally, what ever happened to the multi-culturalists and diversity lovers in this country? They seem to have gone very quiet.

    The arguments pretty weak if you're forced to used 'lavatories' to make a point.

    Muslims may well pay takes, but they should do so under the firm belief that they're required to obey the laws and customs within this country. I wouldn't expect otherwise if I lived in Jeddah or Islamabad. If it's an issue, then perhaps one should consider living elsewhere.

    Those undergoing sex changes do so voluntarily - it's their choice. Do the young girls being forcibly mutilated have any option? Somehow I doubt it. It's an abhorrent act, and those inflicting such injuries on children should be prosecuted accordingly

    So, I see you've got no answer to my lavatories point.

    There is nothing illegal about sex segregation. Perhaps you should ask David Cameron where he went to school?

    As for your ridiculous citing of "customs", these change over time and would certainly change due to ......immigration! Perhaps this should have been considered before mass non-European immigration was allowed?

    The "chuck 'em out" argument is hardly the way to treat British citizens when they exercise their democratic rights, just because you disagree with them. How illiberal.

    You seem strongly against violence acts being committed children. Please point me to your anti-abortion posts in the past.

    You can bet that British Muslims can smell the cant and hypocrisy emanating from the British political class just as well as I can.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    Sean_F said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    A few notes on the "segregation" supposedly taken place on UK universities.

    Firstly, they already practise segregation - ever heard of Men's and Women's lavatories.

    Secondly, whatever you may think of them, Muslims pay taxes. Unless public institutions accommodate them and their beliefs, then they have lost the right to public money or money should be made available for Muslims to found their own institutions.

    I must say I am enjoying "liberals" discomfort on this issue. They proclaim tolerance and an open door immigration policy, but then squeal when those immigrants fail to check their religion in at the border. Hilarious.

    Particularly amusingly, they have only just realised this when the liberal bastion of education has been stormed, the rest of the country having had close contact with Muslims and Islam for years and having been derided as "racists" when they have complained.

    For anyone complaining about FGM, please post a link to your posts on male-to-female sex changes, which, of course, involve the removal of the penis and testicles. Also, it most definitely takes place in this country. On the NHS.

    Finally, what ever happened to the multi-culturalists and diversity lovers in this country? They seem to have gone very quiet.

    The arguments pretty weak if you're forced to used 'lavatories' to make a point.

    Muslims may well pay takes, but they should do so under the firm belief that they're required to obey the laws and customs within this country. I wouldn't expect otherwise if I lived in Jeddah or Islamabad. If it's an issue, then perhaps one should consider living elsewhere.

    Those undergoing sex changes do so voluntarily - it's their choice. Do the young girls being forcibly mutilated have any option? Somehow I doubt it. It's an abhorrent act, and those inflicting such injuries on children should be prosecuted accordingly

    We also have single-sex clubs, societies, gyms, schools etc. To be honest, I think there are bigger fish to fry than seating arrangements in Muslim Student Societies.

    If people wish to sit separately on a voluntary basis that's their business; if they're forced to do so, then I'm afraid that's wrong.

    FGM is a very big fish, that needs frying, and stopping now.

    FGM and forcible marriage are different matters. They need to be punished with utmost force.

  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Ninoinoz

    'As for your ridiculous citing of "customs", these change over time and would certainly change due to ......immigration!'

    Nope,the minority adapt to the majority.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    john_zims said:

    @Ninoinoz

    'As for your ridiculous citing of "customs", these change over time and would certainly change due to ......immigration!'

    Nope,the minority adapt to the majority.

    His point is that when you have mass immigration, the host may have to adapt to the immigrant.

    WRT Muslims, there are genuine legitimate criticisms to make. What isn't fair is to blame them for not embracing the sexual revolution.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    C5 had a fab ABBA fest this evening. Amazing how quickly that cleared a room in my house tonight, only other thing that has the same effect is Pride and Prejudice (Colin Firth addition). :)
    DavidL said:

    Gosh it is quiet on here tonight.

  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    john_zims said:

    @Ninoinoz

    'As for your ridiculous citing of "customs", these change over time and would certainly change due to ......immigration!'

    Nope,the minority adapt to the majority.

    Forced assimilation? No thanks!

    Also, it doesn't actually seem to be happening. Why should it? Britain has opened its borders to the World, communications are cheap, TV (and internet) can be brought easily from throughout the World. Also, Muslims actually have children, hence their population growth.

    Point of information: White British are a minority in London.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Ninoinoz said:

    john_zims said:

    @Ninoinoz

    'As for your ridiculous citing of "customs", these change over time and would certainly change due to ......immigration!'

    Nope,the minority adapt to the majority.

    Forced assimilation? No thanks!

    Also, it doesn't actually seem to be happening. Why should it? Britain has opened its borders to the World, communications are cheap, TV (and internet) can be brought easily from throughout the World. Also, Muslims actually have children, hence their population growth.

    Point of information: White British are a minority in London.
    Nothing can justify the forced mutilation of children.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    Ninoinoz said:

    john_zims said:

    @Ninoinoz

    'As for your ridiculous citing of "customs", these change over time and would certainly change due to ......immigration!'

    Nope,the minority adapt to the majority.

    Forced assimilation? No thanks!

    Also, it doesn't actually seem to be happening. Why should it? Britain has opened its borders to the World, communications are cheap, TV (and internet) can be brought easily from throughout the World. Also, Muslims actually have children, hence their population growth.

    Point of information: White British are a minority in London.
    Nothing can justify the forced mutilation of children.
    And where in that post do I justify FGM?

    And it is hardly taking place in British Universities, is it?

    And again, it is to be noted the failure to mention abortion rates in this country. The poor child is certainly forced to endure that.

    Perhaps sexual separation has its uses, after all.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2013
    The only way to stop FGM is for girls at risk to be examined on a regular basis by doctors. The problem is that when this idea was put to politicians on Newsnight recently they all said it was a bad idea. But trying to stop this without examining those at risk is a bit like trying to catch a rapist without doing an examination for DNA on rape victims.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    AndyJS said:

    The only way to stop FGM is for girls at risk to be examined on a regular basis by doctors. The problem is that when this idea was put to politicians on Newsnight recently they all said it was a bad idea. But trying to stop this without examining those at risk is a bit like trying to catch a rapist without doing an examination for DNA on rape victims.

    Presumably "girls at risk" means "girls not from my ethnic or religious group" in this case?

    Some government employees know perfectly well which females have been circumcised. The NHS finds out when they go to hospital to give birth. No questioning or prosecutions have resulted.

    The truth is as long as abortion is legal in this country and takes place in NHS hospitals, the government hasn't a moral leg to stand on.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @AndyJS

    'The only way to stop FGM is for girls at risk to be examined on a regular basis by doctors.'

    For a start they could make it mandatory for medical professionals to report cases they come across.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    tim said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    AndyJS said:

    The only way to stop FGM is for girls at risk to be examined on a regular basis by doctors. The problem is that when this idea was put to politicians on Newsnight recently they all said it was a bad idea. But trying to stop this without examining those at risk is a bit like trying to catch a rapist without doing an examination for DNA on rape victims.

    Presumably "girls at risk" means "girls not from my ethnic or religious group" in this case?

    Some government employees know perfectly well which females have been circumcised. The NHS finds out when they go to hospital to give birth. No questioning or prosecutions have resulted.

    The truth is as long as abortion is legal in this country and takes place in NHS hospitals, the government hasn't a moral leg to stand on.
    You're patently an idiot, the key to this stuff is the state monitoring child absence from schools
    Really? I suppose the long summer school holiday is news to you. So, apparently, is taking a school register every morning and afternoon.

    Anyway, I feel that now I've been unnecessarily insulted by you, I have now lost my PB virginity.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2013
    Interesting fact:

    For Labour to win a majority in 2015 they need to win 93.4% of the seats they would have won in 2005 under the current boundaries. The notional result for 2005 was Labour on 349 seats and a majority of 48, so the calculation is 326/349.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    The key to things like FGM is not covering it up. Like the grooming gangs and the gang-ruled inner city hell estates only once it's all out in the open and senior plod are certain that their careers won't be ended by the PC establishment will they tackle it.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    (Off Topic)

    Two threads ago there was a mini-quiz about what connected three people who bla-bla-bla, or whatever it was.

    As a variation, here is an arithmetic quiz. Connect the numbers using standard arithmetical operations, to make each line equal 6. You're not allowed to write in any extra numbers, so (for example) you can't do a little 2 to make "squared", and you can't do a little 3 to make a cube-root sign. :

    0 0 0 = 6
    1 1 1 = 6
    2 2 2 = 6
    3 3 3 = 6
    4 4 4 = 6
    5 5 5 = 6
    6 6 6 = 6
    7 7 7 = 6
    8 8 8 = 6
    9 9 9 = 6
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    JohnLoony said:

    (Off Topic)

    Two threads ago there was a mini-quiz about what connected three people who bla-bla-bla, or whatever it was.

    As a variation, here is an arithmetic quiz. Connect the numbers using standard arithmetical operations, to make each line equal 6. You're not allowed to write in any extra numbers, so (for example) you can't do a little 2 to make "squared", and you can't do a little 3 to make a cube-root sign. :

    0 0 0 = 6
    1 1 1 = 6
    2 2 2 = 6
    3 3 3 = 6
    4 4 4 = 6
    5 5 5 = 6
    6 6 6 = 6
    7 7 7 = 6
    8 8 8 = 6
    9 9 9 = 6


    Some obvious ones

    (2^2)+2 =6
    (3*3)-3 = 6
    (5/5)+5 = 6
    (6*6)/6 = 6 or (6-6+6)
    -(7/7)+7 = 6

  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080
    fitalass said:

    C5 had a fab ABBA fest this evening. Amazing how quickly that cleared a room in my house tonight, only other thing that has the same effect is Pride and Prejudice (Colin Firth addition). :)

    DavidL said:

    Gosh it is quiet on here tonight.

    Yes - I have fallen in love with Agneta -again!
This discussion has been closed.