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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited May 2020
    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    Golly. I am all for pointing at lefty anti-semites and laughing, but I haven't seen a weaker claim than this. It is a completely pathetic "Foreign names are hilarious, especially when they accidentally contain proper English words" gag, but who knew Tugendhat was a Jewish name, if it is?
    The point is that if it were in a right wing paper and the butt of the joke were a left winger's foreign sounding name, I think O'Brien would be up in arms.

    We frequently see such double standards on here.

    I was told that Boris "literally just said" 'People of Colour', in a sentence that confirmed his White Supremacism, by someone who is now warning Tory MPs to expect to be done for libelling Keir Starmer because they fell for fake news the same as he did!
    Don't remember anyone being up in arms when some diddy on here suggested Starmer would have problems because of his 'Germanic' sounding surname, apart from me pointing out that they were a diddy.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    Golly. I am all for pointing at lefty anti-semites and laughing, but I haven't seen a weaker claim than this. It is a completely pathetic "Foreign names are hilarious, especially when they accidentally contain proper English words" gag, but who knew Tugendhat was a Jewish name, if it is?
    The point is that if it were in a right wing paper and the butt of the joke were a left winger's foreign sounding name, I think O'Brien would be up in arms.

    We frequently see such double standards on here.

    I was told that Boris "literally just said" 'People of Colour', in a sentence that confirmed his White Supremacism, by someone who is now warning Tory MPs to expect to be done for libelling Keir Starmer because they fell for fake news the same as he did!
    Tom Tugendhat's father attended the same Private Boarding school as James O'Brien

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Tugendhat
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    IshmaelZ said:

    MattW said:

    Labour is drawing up ambitious proposals to rescue the post-coronavirus economy with a radical green recovery plan focused on helping young people who lose their jobs by retraining them in green industries.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/17/labour-to-plan-green-economic-rescue-from-coronavirus-crisis

    Has anybody told them they lost the GE?

    Recovery plan, yes. Good ideas are welcome. Unfortunately radical and green are likely to be synonyms for total BS that would finish off the economy given the ideologies dominant in the LP at present.
    Isn't much of this just the gibberish from Richard Murphy warmed-over a little?
    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    Golly. I am all for pointing at lefty anti-semites and laughing, but I haven't seen a weaker claim than this. It is a completely pathetic "Foreign names are hilarious, especially when they accidentally contain proper English words" gag, but who knew Tugendhat was a Jewish name, if it is?
    Imagine that someone wrote an article in the Daily Mail, using the comic possibilities of the name of (say) a Muslim advisor to Lord Keith Starmer?

    I always find it a reasonable measure to rotate such things through a sequence of alternates (replace religions, political allegiance etc etc) - if it causes offence in one case, it should cause offence in all.
    Mustapha Kunt is the paradigm example, and again there is nothing inherently anti muslim in the joke. Mainstream muslim names are problematic because they all seem to be named after the Prophet pbuh and ridiculing the name is probably tantamount to ridiculing the Prophet and therefore a suicide bombing offence. But if you asked me where the name Tugendhat came from, I'd probably say Scandinavia or the Low Countries.
    I would certainly do a bit of background research before publishing stuff like that in a national newspaper. Bit like doing cross cultural research before naming a product.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    FWIW, the news from the Govt briefing (which I'm watching a few minutes behind) is that the Oxford vaccine group have signed a global licencing agreement with AstraZeneca and are ramping up another couple of gears on production.

    Basically if they get it right and this thing works then they think they'll have enough doses to vaccinated 30m people in Britain by September. That would be more than sufficient to over the whole NHS, the teachers, the shielded group and all the pensioners, which would effectively finish this damned thing off.

    I'm filing this news in the "too good to be true" drawer - but it would be nice to think that it could just happen... I've had a very nice afternoon out (the weather is beautiful today) so I'm feeling a bit less shit than I did this morning. So, we shall see.

    Interesting update. Did they give an indication about how the trials were going? The vaccine has been tested on hundreds of individuals already, so one might reasonably hope for some early results...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    Golly. I am all for pointing at lefty anti-semites and laughing, but I haven't seen a weaker claim than this. It is a completely pathetic "Foreign names are hilarious, especially when they accidentally contain proper English words" gag, but who knew Tugendhat was a Jewish name, if it is?
    I'm sure some lefties would admit that moral outrage is an addictive drug, quite difficult to wean oneself from. The Tory party had 5 years of riding the antisemitism dragon with apparently some effect, why stop now?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    Golly. I am all for pointing at lefty anti-semites and laughing, but I haven't seen a weaker claim than this. It is a completely pathetic "Foreign names are hilarious, especially when they accidentally contain proper English words" gag, but who knew Tugendhat was a Jewish name, if it is?
    I thought this too, based solely on the headline. But then I read the article, which is simply vile. The "gas" references in particular were probably unfortunate rather than calculated, but right wingers have had their careers torched by Twitter lynch mobs for less.

    Also yes, it's definitely a Jewish name. Which a Guardian journalist should have known (or researched), even if the average person on the street might not.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Clippers ordered.

    Time for the lockdown Showaddywaddy look to go...

    When I get to that stage, I rather think I am going to follow the advice of @AlistairM and take the whole lot off, including the no longer convincing combover.
    I'll see what happens.

    Sensible people bought them earlier - on this one I was not sensible.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    I thought it was one of those English names actually!

    FPT by the way - you never did explain who King John was/is please ...?
    King John bribed granted a charter to the Channel Islands in 1204 to remain loyal to the English crown in return for running their own affairs after he'd lost the Norman lands in France - which is why 1) We're not part of the UK and 2) Have run our own COVID response.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    FWIW, the news from the Govt briefing (which I'm watching a few minutes behind) is that the Oxford vaccine group have signed a global licencing agreement with AstraZeneca and are ramping up another couple of gears on production.

    Basically if they get it right and this thing works then they think they'll have enough doses to vaccinated 30m people in Britain by September. That would be more than sufficient to over the whole NHS, the teachers, the shielded group and all the pensioners, which would effectively finish this damned thing off.

    I'm filing this news in the "too good to be true" drawer - but it would be nice to think that it could just happen... I've had a very nice afternoon out (the weather is beautiful today) so I'm feeling a bit less shit than I did this morning. So, we shall see.

    Interesting update. Did they give an indication about how the trials were going? The vaccine has been tested on hundreds of individuals already, so one might reasonably hope for some early results...
    Sorry, I can't tell you any more beyond the minister (it's Sharma today) saying that the trial was progressing well, whilst reminding everyone that success wasn't guaranteed. Government is chucking more money at the problem, and there are also a number of drug trials in progress to give a better chance of finding a treatment if the vaccine route fails. Afraid we're just going to have to sit and wait for a while.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Interesting one, Id assumed this was being over zealously investigated as a breach of lockdown, but......

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52699104
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Don't remember anyone being up in arms when some diddy on here suggested Starmer would have problems because of his 'Germanic' sounding surname, apart from me pointing out that they were a diddy.

    The best thing about Starmer is that his crazed acolytes (assuming he has some) will forever be known as Starmtroopers.

    You can't unsee that now...
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    FWIW, the news from the Govt briefing (which I'm watching a few minutes behind) is that the Oxford vaccine group have signed a global licencing agreement with AstraZeneca and are ramping up another couple of gears on production.

    Basically if they get it right and this thing works then they think they'll have enough doses to vaccinated 30m people in Britain by September. That would be more than sufficient to over the whole NHS, the teachers, the shielded group and all the pensioners, which would effectively finish this damned thing off.

    I'm filing this news in the "too good to be true" drawer - but it would be nice to think that it could just happen... I've had a very nice afternoon out (the weather is beautiful today) so I'm feeling a bit less shit than I did this morning. So, we shall see.

    Interesting update. Did they give an indication about how the trials were going? The vaccine has been tested on hundreds of individuals already, so one might reasonably hope for some early results...
    Sorry, I can't tell you any more beyond the minister (it's Sharma today) saying that the trial was progressing well, whilst reminding everyone that success wasn't guaranteed. Government is chucking more money at the problem, and there are also a number of drug trials in progress to give a better chance of finding a treatment if the vaccine route fails. Afraid we're just going to have to sit and wait for a while.
    Drug trials typically need to proves that the drug is both safe and effective. Presumably our thresholds for the latter are somewhat reduced from normal levels, given the benefits to even partial herd immunity right now?

    "Safe" is a bit of a different story, although if I understand correctly then inactive vaccines tend to be fairly safe generally. I think live vaccines are a bit more complicated, and I don't know whether the Oxford trial is live or not.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    I'm not sure what Hodges is bleating about. It was quite clearly stated in the briefing that it might not work and a vaccine might never be available, hence the fact that drug treatment trials were also in progress.

    I'm really not sure what he expects the Government to do about this. Chuck the money at the vaccine projects in secret and pretend that they don't exist?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020
    No, its the please stick to the lockdown, better days are ahead. If you just told everybody, probably be 2 years, maybe 3, maybe never, could you please stay in your home for 3 months and then still only come out for very specific reasons, lots more people would say f##k it, lets get it and be over it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    FWIW, the news from the Govt briefing (which I'm watching a few minutes behind) is that the Oxford vaccine group have signed a global licencing agreement with AstraZeneca and are ramping up another couple of gears on production.

    Basically if they get it right and this thing works then they think they'll have enough doses to vaccinated 30m people in Britain by September. That would be more than sufficient to over the whole NHS, the teachers, the shielded group and all the pensioners, which would effectively finish this damned thing off.

    I'm filing this news in the "too good to be true" drawer - but it would be nice to think that it could just happen... I've had a very nice afternoon out (the weather is beautiful today) so I'm feeling a bit less shit than I did this morning. So, we shall see.

    Interesting update. Did they give an indication about how the trials were going? The vaccine has been tested on hundreds of individuals already, so one might reasonably hope for some early results...
    They will know if this is still a goer in a month or so. That doesn't mean cracked it, just looks like people are safe and appears to be having an effect.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    I'm not sure what Hodges is bleating about. It was quite clearly stated in the briefing that it might not work and a vaccine might never be available, hence the fact that drug treatment trials were also in progress.

    I'm really not sure what he expects the Government to do about this. Chuck the money at the vaccine projects in secret and pretend that they don't exist?
    Obviously. Also shoot anyone who reveals The Secret. Or lock them up forever in the dungeons on Rockall.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020

    I'm not sure what Hodges is bleating about. It was quite clearly stated in the briefing that it might not work and a vaccine might never be available, hence the fact that drug treatment trials were also in progress.

    I'm really not sure what he expects the Government to do about this. Chuck the money at the vaccine projects in secret and pretend that they don't exist?
    The uk government are involved in funding 24 different potential vaccines at the moment. But hard to keep that on the down-low.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    I wouldn’t have known that Tugendhat was a Jewish name TBH. Do most people?

    I had no idea tbh.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited May 2020

    No, its the please stick to the lockdown, better days are ahead. If you just told everybody, probably be 2 years, maybe 3, maybe never, could you please stay in your home for 3 months and then still only come out for very specific reasons, lots more people would say f##k it, lets get it and be over it.
    Are governments in other countries telling their people that the UK is working on a vaccine that might be ready quite soon?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Endillion said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    Golly. I am all for pointing at lefty anti-semites and laughing, but I haven't seen a weaker claim than this. It is a completely pathetic "Foreign names are hilarious, especially when they accidentally contain proper English words" gag, but who knew Tugendhat was a Jewish name, if it is?
    I thought this too, based solely on the headline. But then I read the article, which is simply vile. The "gas" references in particular were probably unfortunate rather than calculated, but right wingers have had their careers torched by Twitter lynch mobs for less.

    Also yes, it's definitely a Jewish name. Which a Guardian journalist should have known (or researched), even if the average person on the street might not.
    My bad, as da yoof say - I thought the fuss was only about the headline. Have now read the article, and never seen anything so embarrassingly awful in print. "Gas" is a WW1 reference, but unpardonable even so. And I agree, if he is going to go on specifically about the name he has a duty to establish where it is from.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    I'm not sure what Hodges is bleating about. It was quite clearly stated in the briefing that it might not work and a vaccine might never be available, hence the fact that drug treatment trials were also in progress.

    I'm really not sure what he expects the Government to do about this. Chuck the money at the vaccine projects in secret and pretend that they don't exist?
    The uk government are involved in funding 24 different potential vaccines at the moment. But hard to keep that on the down-low.
    It is very hard to get a good TheGovernmentIsHidingTheTruth story going with all this publishing stuff going on. Won't someone please think of the conspiracy theorists?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020

    I'm not sure what Hodges is bleating about. It was quite clearly stated in the briefing that it might not work and a vaccine might never be available, hence the fact that drug treatment trials were also in progress.

    I'm really not sure what he expects the Government to do about this. Chuck the money at the vaccine projects in secret and pretend that they don't exist?
    The uk government are involved in funding 24 different potential vaccines at the moment. But hard to keep that on the down-low.
    It is very hard to get a good TheGovernmentIsHidingTheTruth story going with all this publishing stuff going on. Won't someone please think of the conspiracy theorists?
    Well we all know that because of 5g are having our minds controlled to accept this and in doing so getting coronavirus from it...so that the Bill Gates controlled deep state can then sell a vaccine to everybody.

    I think that is what Piers Corbyn lot believe.
  • BantermanBanterman Posts: 287
    kinabalu said:

    Labour is drawing up ambitious proposals to rescue the post-coronavirus economy with a radical green recovery plan focused on helping young people who lose their jobs by retraining them in green industries.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/17/labour-to-plan-green-economic-rescue-from-coronavirus-crisis

    Has anybody told them they lost the GE?

    The Tories these days don't tend to have ideas - so the burden falls upon others.
    Going "green" is the recipe for ongoing disaster. That nearly all our political have fallen for it, is a mystery to me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    I thought it was one of those English names actually!

    FPT by the way - you never did explain who King John was/is please ...?
    King John bribed granted a charter to the Channel Islands in 1204 to remain loyal to the English crown in return for running their own affairs after he'd lost the Norman lands in France - which is why 1) We're not part of the UK and 2) Have run our own COVID response.
    Ah, thank you.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020
    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    No idea where he is getting any idea that levels are that high. 20% i could probably at a stretch believe, but 50% is way out of the ballpark of any estimates / testing anywhere that has had it bad.

    Or does he believe a large chunk of the population are just naturally immune?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    I'm not sure what Hodges is bleating about. It was quite clearly stated in the briefing that it might not work and a vaccine might never be available, hence the fact that drug treatment trials were also in progress.

    I'm really not sure what he expects the Government to do about this. Chuck the money at the vaccine projects in secret and pretend that they don't exist?
    The uk government are involved in funding 24 different potential vaccines at the moment. But hard to keep that on the down-low.
    It is very hard to get a good TheGovernmentIsHidingTheTruth story going with all this publishing stuff going on. Won't someone please think of the conspiracy theorists?
    Well we all know that because of 5g are having our minds controlled to accept this and in doing so getting coronavirus from it...so that the Bill Gates controlled deep state can then sell a vaccine to everybody.

    I think that is what Piers Corbyn lot believe.
    As someone who is part Jewish, a Freemason and linked to an organisation that helped *found* the Illuminati, I can tell you that's all wrong.

    We have the Lizard People doing completely different stuff to that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    No idea where he is getting any idea that levels are that high. 20% i could probably at a stretch believe, but 50% is way out of the ballpark of any estimates / testing anywhere that has had it bad.

    Or does he believe a large chunk of the population are just naturally immune?
    As ever - so many serious scientists are coming up with such wildly different numbers.

    Either we have a giant clown show on, or there is something here that only a mass test with an antibody test, that matches the Porton Down criteria, can answer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    kinabalu said:

    Labour is drawing up ambitious proposals to rescue the post-coronavirus economy with a radical green recovery plan focused on helping young people who lose their jobs by retraining them in green industries.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/17/labour-to-plan-green-economic-rescue-from-coronavirus-crisis

    Has anybody told them they lost the GE?

    The Tories these days don't tend to have ideas - so the burden falls upon others.
    There isn't much thinking in labour plan...it is rehash of army of loft laggers and plant a billion trees stuff.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    This is by no means a ridiculous theory.

    For example, remember that people with blood type A are significantly more likely to be infected than people with O. You could naively describe this as the population of people with A have an R0 of 4, and those with O have an R0 of 2. We would therefore expect the virus to spread more rapidly through the population of people with blood type A, and therefore the remaining people to be less susceptible.

    Likewise, it might be that if you had previously had one of the coronavirus common cold variants, you are also less likely to catch the disease.

    Put these together, and it's quite possible that R drops off more quickly than you might expect.

    It's also possible that these theories are wildly wrong.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    eek said:

    The risk of spending more than 10 minutes in a room with infected people appears to be far higher than spending 10 minutes outside with the same people.
    still highlights the crap decision making we have seen from supposed expert scientists and medical people throughout. How did they ever get to being classed as experts, dummies more like. SAGE appears to be an oxymoron
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I wish people would stop making wild guesses about infection rates etc. Particularly eminent scientists who should know better.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited May 2020
    I don't know about anyone else, but I veer between three different attitudes to the Plague:

    1. Optimism - either it turns out that this disease has a lower than expected threshold for herd immunity, or a vaccination or drug treatment trial tames it at some point in the next few months
    2. Pessimism - we're going to be stuck with the misery of social distancing for years, it's going to destroy the economy and make everyone's lives unbearable. Mass cliff-jumping and wrist-slitting will commence by Christmas at the latest
    3. Fatalism - the disease will take off again but attempts to reimpose lockdown will fail because people will have lost all faith in it. Best efforts will be made to protect the vulnerable and will hopefully do some good; much of the rest of the population will get it, and it'll burn itself out by the end of the year

    Any evidence supporting (1) gets filed in the "too good to be true" folder, because I'm a glass half empty kind of a character. I spend most of the time pitching between (2) and (3). Whilst my personal circumstances are better than a lot of other people's, this still isn't very much fun.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    I thought it was one of those English names actually!

    FPT by the way - you never did explain who King John was/is please ...?
    I think it will be this guy Carnyx.............
    John (24 December 1166 – 19 October 1216) was King of England from 1199 until his death in 1216. He lost the Duchy of Normandy and most of his other French lands to King Philip II of France, resulting in the collapse of the Angevin Empire and contributing to the subsequent growth in power of the French Capetian dynasty during the 13th century. The baronial revolt at the end of John's reign led to the sealing of Magna Carta, a document sometimes considered an early step in the evolution of the constitution of the United Kingdom.

    John was the youngest of the four surviving sons of King Henry II of England and Duchess Eleanor of Aquitaine. He was nicknamed John Lackland because he was not expected to inherit significant lands.[1] He became Henry's favourite child following the failed revolt of 1173–74 by his brothers Henry the Young King, Richard, and Geoffrey against the King. John was appointed the Lord of Ireland in 1177 and given lands in England and on the continent. The war between Henry II and his eldest sons ended with the deaths of Henry the Young King and Geoffrey. John unsuccessfully attempted a rebellion against the royal administrators of his brother, King Richard, whilst Richard was participating in the Third Crusade, but he was proclaimed king after Richard died in 1199. He came to an agreement with Philip II of France to recognise John's possession of the continental Angevin lands at the peace treaty of Le Goulet in 1200.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    This is by no means a ridiculous theory.

    For example, remember that people with blood type A are significantly more likely to be infected than people with O. You could naively describe this as the population of people with A have an R0 of 4, and those with O have an R0 of 2. We would therefore expect the virus to spread more rapidly through the population of people with blood type A, and therefore the remaining people to be less susceptible.

    Likewise, it might be that if you had previously had one of the coronavirus common cold variants, you are also less likely to catch the disease.

    Put these together, and it's quite possible that R drops off more quickly than you might expect.

    It's also possible that these theories are wildly wrong.
    Perhaps you haven't read enough of what he's said to get the full ludicrous flavour of it.
  • Pulpstar said:

    I wouldn’t have known that Tugendhat was a Jewish name TBH. Do most people?

    I had no idea tbh.
    The surname Tugendhat originates from German speaking Jewish communities in Eastern/Central Europe (Prague and surroundings). To a German speaker it appears somewhat strange to stick any slur to it, because the name is uncommon but sounds quite lovely. It translates literally to "person of virtue". Tugend = virtue; hat = has.
    Historically it has been predominantly, but not exclusively Jewish. There were a number of mosaic/christian converts of that name.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    On the Oxford vaccine, I don't know whether this has been posted, but it's worth reading:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/05/16/did-the-oxford-covid-vaccine-work-in-monkeys-not-really/#45572ba13c71
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    Who knew that the fifth horseman would be being fukking nuts?

    https://twitter.com/ropoem/status/1261976922424254470?s=20

    'mon the immune system.

    The "dirt boosts the immune system" bollocks is persistent as anti-vax. And just as stupid.

    Every time I see a Guardian (type) journalist sneering at the "middle class" idea of washing every day, I feel like misquoting Abe Lincoln, and wishing that cholera be visited upon them.
    I thought there was some truth to it. When I was a child I had innumerable cuts and bruises, all dealt with my loving loving mother with witch hazel iirc. I was led to believe (possibly incorrectly) that the profusion of people who suffered allergies was a direct result of being too mollycoddled and washed inTCP 3 times a day ;)
    In my day it was iodine, bread poultices and vic rub , full medical kit. Cold penny for bumps.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    No idea where he is getting any idea that levels are that high. 20% i could probably at a stretch believe, but 50% is way out of the ballpark of any estimates / testing anywhere that has had it bad.

    Or does he believe a large chunk of the population are just naturally immune?
    That 50% was in the context of an antibody test to reveal how many people had already been infected.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    No idea where he is getting any idea that levels are that high. 20% i could probably at a stretch believe, but 50% is way out of the ballpark of any estimates / testing anywhere that has had it bad.

    Or does he believe a large chunk of the population are just naturally immune?
    That 50% was in the context of an antibody test to reveal how many people had already been infected.
    I'm selling the 50%.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,430

    Pulpstar said:

    I wouldn’t have known that Tugendhat was a Jewish name TBH. Do most people?

    I had no idea tbh.
    The surname Tugendhat originates from German speaking Jewish communities in Eastern/Central Europe (Prague and surroundings). To a German speaker it appears somewhat strange to stick any slur to it, because the name is uncommon but sounds quite lovely. It translates literally to "person of virtue". Tugend = virtue; hat = has.
    Historically it has been predominantly, but not exclusively Jewish. There were a number of mosaic/christian converts of that name.
    I'd have guessed that the "hat" is an old version of the German "heit" suffix, so that Tugendhat would mean something like "virtuosity".
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    I don't know about anyone else, but I veer between three different attitudes to the Plague:

    1. Optimism - either it turns out that this disease has a lower than expected threshold for herd immunity, or a vaccination or drug treatment trial tames it at some point in the next few months
    2. Pessimism - we're going to be stuck with the misery of social distancing for years, it's going to destroy the economy and make everyone's lives unbearable. Mass cliff-jumping and wrist-slitting will commence by Christmas at the latest
    3. Fatalism - the disease will take off again but attempts to reimpose lockdown will fail because people will have lost all faith in it. Best efforts will be made to protect the vulnerable and will hopefully do some good; much of the rest of the population will get it, and it'll burn itself out by the end of the year

    Any evidence supporting (1) gets filed in the "too good to be true" folder, because I'm a glass half empty kind of a character. I spend most of the time pitching between (2) and (3). Whilst my personal circumstances are better than a lot of other people's, this still isn't very much fun.

    I am optimistic, at least today, that your item 1 is correct.

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,947
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I think they actually mean the UK government "in England":

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1261981892439674881?s=20

    Like England they imagine UK = England.
    How’s Contact Tracer hiring going in Scotland?
    I assume it is going well, applications do not close till 22nd , you still have time to apply.
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/coronavirus-scotland-despite-8500-people-22039844

    Guernsey has already hired and trained its Contact Tracers - proportionately 50% more than the Scottish Government target.
    So now you know better than the government and scientists on how many tracers they need
    Just making the point that Guernsey has fulfilled 100% of it's target and Scotland 0%. The government's of Guernsey and Scotland face very different challenges - but only one of them hasn't had a new case in 17 days.

    I thought we'd buried that ludicrous comparison the other day.

    I can confirm that Rockall met its quota long before Guernsey.

    Not interested in learning from others? Fair enough.
    I hardly think we could learn anything from an island with 60K population , only a Tory could imagine something so bizarre. If you had said similar population small countries I could agree wholeheartedly.
    See my comments on Ireland.
    Yes not a great comparison , only excuse would be lesser concentration of population but a flimsy one. Strange the rates in Inverclyde and Midlothian but both have small population numbers even though similar other areas much lower.
    Other surprise for me is more affluent south Ayrshire being higher than north Ayrshire
    Never seen an explanation of Inverclyde and Midlothian - it may just be chance in the distribution of early spreaders, esp. with small populations which means more stochastic fluctuation and founder effect. Midlothian at least would also tend to contain numbers of workers for ERI on those radials outward from SE Edinburgh .
    Yes a good few areas have so small a population that they cannot possibly give good numbers for comparison. Ayrshire would have been far more sensible with all 3 areas combined. Same for some other areas.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited May 2020
    Big event scheduled in 10 days time, the first launch of astronauts from American soil since July 2011.
    Expect the Musk/Trump love in to continue.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    No idea where he is getting any idea that levels are that high. 20% i could probably at a stretch believe, but 50% is way out of the ballpark of any estimates / testing anywhere that has had it bad.

    Or does he believe a large chunk of the population are just naturally immune?
    That 50% was in the context of an antibody test to reveal how many people had already been infected.
    Reading what he wrote, I saw no indication of an actual testing program being carried out to generate the 50% number.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    malcolmg said:

    Who knew that the fifth horseman would be being fukking nuts?

    https://twitter.com/ropoem/status/1261976922424254470?s=20

    'mon the immune system.

    The "dirt boosts the immune system" bollocks is persistent as anti-vax. And just as stupid.

    Every time I see a Guardian (type) journalist sneering at the "middle class" idea of washing every day, I feel like misquoting Abe Lincoln, and wishing that cholera be visited upon them.
    I thought there was some truth to it. When I was a child I had innumerable cuts and bruises, all dealt with my loving loving mother with witch hazel iirc. I was led to believe (possibly incorrectly) that the profusion of people who suffered allergies was a direct result of being too mollycoddled and washed inTCP 3 times a day ;)
    In my day it was iodine, bread poultices and vic rub , full medical kit. Cold penny for bumps.
    Luxury...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    malcolmg said:

    Who knew that the fifth horseman would be being fukking nuts?

    https://twitter.com/ropoem/status/1261976922424254470?s=20

    'mon the immune system.

    The "dirt boosts the immune system" bollocks is persistent as anti-vax. And just as stupid.

    Every time I see a Guardian (type) journalist sneering at the "middle class" idea of washing every day, I feel like misquoting Abe Lincoln, and wishing that cholera be visited upon them.
    I thought there was some truth to it. When I was a child I had innumerable cuts and bruises, all dealt with my loving loving mother with witch hazel iirc. I was led to believe (possibly incorrectly) that the profusion of people who suffered allergies was a direct result of being too mollycoddled and washed inTCP 3 times a day ;)
    In my day it was iodine, bread poultices and vic rub , full medical kit. Cold penny for bumps.
    Beatings will continue until morale (and health) improve.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I think they actually mean the UK government "in England":

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1261981892439674881?s=20

    Like England they imagine UK = England.
    How’s Contact Tracer hiring going in Scotland?
    I assume it is going well, applications do not close till 22nd , you still have time to apply.
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/coronavirus-scotland-despite-8500-people-22039844

    Guernsey has already hired and trained its Contact Tracers - proportionately 50% more than the Scottish Government target.
    So now you know better than the government and scientists on how many tracers they need
    Just making the point that Guernsey has fulfilled 100% of it's target and Scotland 0%. The government's of Guernsey and Scotland face very different challenges - but only one of them hasn't had a new case in 17 days.

    I thought we'd buried that ludicrous comparison the other day.

    I can confirm that Rockall met its quota long before Guernsey.

    Not interested in learning from others? Fair enough.
    I hardly think we could learn anything from an island with 60K population , only a Tory could imagine something so bizarre. If you had said similar population small countries I could agree wholeheartedly.
    See my comments on Ireland.
    Yes not a great comparison , only excuse would be lesser concentration of population but a flimsy one. Strange the rates in Inverclyde and Midlothian but both have small population numbers even though similar other areas much lower.
    Other surprise for me is more affluent south Ayrshire being higher than north Ayrshire
    Never seen an explanation of Inverclyde and Midlothian - it may just be chance in the distribution of early spreaders, esp. with small populations which means more stochastic fluctuation and founder effect. Midlothian at least would also tend to contain numbers of workers for ERI on those radials outward from SE Edinburgh .
    Yes a good few areas have so small a population that they cannot possibly give good numbers for comparison. Ayrshire would have been far more sensible with all 3 areas combined. Same for some other areas.
    did you forget to add comment??
  • tlg86 said:

    No, its the please stick to the lockdown, better days are ahead. If you just told everybody, probably be 2 years, maybe 3, maybe never, could you please stay in your home for 3 months and then still only come out for very specific reasons, lots more people would say f##k it, lets get it and be over it.
    Are governments in other countries telling their people that the UK is working on a vaccine that might be ready quite soon?
    Our government has been telling us that more than 100 research efforts are under way worlwide, several of them in our country, that noone knows which ones will be successful (if any at all), that noone can say which one might be the quickest. Our government, and businesses and academic institutions which are playing a part in the development or the subsequent mass production, have been telling us that it would be the most sensible course of action to administer the vaccines first where they will be needed the most urgently, where the infection will be the most rampant, once they will be available, that a "me first" approach may not just be ethically questionable, but may also not be the most efficient when trying to suppress a global pandemic.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    Who knew that the fifth horseman would be being fukking nuts?

    https://twitter.com/ropoem/status/1261976922424254470?s=20

    'mon the immune system.

    The "dirt boosts the immune system" bollocks is persistent as anti-vax. And just as stupid.

    Every time I see a Guardian (type) journalist sneering at the "middle class" idea of washing every day, I feel like misquoting Abe Lincoln, and wishing that cholera be visited upon them.
    I thought there was some truth to it. When I was a child I had innumerable cuts and bruises, all dealt with my loving loving mother with witch hazel iirc. I was led to believe (possibly incorrectly) that the profusion of people who suffered allergies was a direct result of being too mollycoddled and washed inTCP 3 times a day ;)
    In my day it was iodine, bread poultices and vic rub , full medical kit. Cold penny for bumps.
    Beatings will continue until morale (and health) improve.
    We were fit as butchers dogs , outdoors all the time , no fat punters in those days, we covered miles and miles every day.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    CatMan said:

    malcolmg said:

    Who knew that the fifth horseman would be being fukking nuts?

    https://twitter.com/ropoem/status/1261976922424254470?s=20

    'mon the immune system.

    The "dirt boosts the immune system" bollocks is persistent as anti-vax. And just as stupid.

    Every time I see a Guardian (type) journalist sneering at the "middle class" idea of washing every day, I feel like misquoting Abe Lincoln, and wishing that cholera be visited upon them.
    I thought there was some truth to it. When I was a child I had innumerable cuts and bruises, all dealt with my loving loving mother with witch hazel iirc. I was led to believe (possibly incorrectly) that the profusion of people who suffered allergies was a direct result of being too mollycoddled and washed inTCP 3 times a day ;)
    In my day it was iodine, bread poultices and vic rub , full medical kit. Cold penny for bumps.
    Luxury...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k
    Malmesbury's 23rd Law - As discussions of childhood privation continue, the probability that someone will post a video of the Four Yorkshiremen sketch approaches 1.0
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    No idea where he is getting any idea that levels are that high. 20% i could probably at a stretch believe, but 50% is way out of the ballpark of any estimates / testing anywhere that has had it bad.

    Or does he believe a large chunk of the population are just naturally immune?
    That 50% was in the context of an antibody test to reveal how many people had already been infected.
    Reading what he wrote, I saw no indication of an actual testing program being carried out to generate the 50% number.
    I must admit I had missed the fact that the 50% was dated 29 March, and he quoted it 5 days ago. Apparently that was his guess for how many had been infected in late March.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,947
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I think they actually mean the UK government "in England":

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1261981892439674881?s=20

    Like England they imagine UK = England.
    How’s Contact Tracer hiring going in Scotland?
    I assume it is going well, applications do not close till 22nd , you still have time to apply.
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/coronavirus-scotland-despite-8500-people-22039844

    Guernsey has already hired and trained its Contact Tracers - proportionately 50% more than the Scottish Government target.
    So now you know better than the government and scientists on how many tracers they need
    Just making the point that Guernsey has fulfilled 100% of it's target and Scotland 0%. The government's of Guernsey and Scotland face very different challenges - but only one of them hasn't had a new case in 17 days.

    I thought we'd buried that ludicrous comparison the other day.

    I can confirm that Rockall met its quota long before Guernsey.

    Not interested in learning from others? Fair enough.
    I hardly think we could learn anything from an island with 60K population , only a Tory could imagine something so bizarre. If you had said similar population small countries I could agree wholeheartedly.
    See my comments on Ireland.
    Yes not a great comparison , only excuse would be lesser concentration of population but a flimsy one. Strange the rates in Inverclyde and Midlothian but both have small population numbers even though similar other areas much lower.
    Other surprise for me is more affluent south Ayrshire being higher than north Ayrshire
    Never seen an explanation of Inverclyde and Midlothian - it may just be chance in the distribution of early spreaders, esp. with small populations which means more stochastic fluctuation and founder effect. Midlothian at least would also tend to contain numbers of workers for ERI on those radials outward from SE Edinburgh .
    Yes a good few areas have so small a population that they cannot possibly give good numbers for comparison. Ayrshire would have been far more sensible with all 3 areas combined. Same for some other areas.
    Having used all three, Crosshouse Hospital, which serves North and East Ayrshire, is an excellent hospital. Ayr Hospital, which covers South Ayrshire, not so much. Inverclyde, which is the other hospital in our area, is awful. If I had to go back, I would check my will was up to date. Maybe biased because they left my 92 year old Dad in one of those chairs with wheels for 6 hours after a fall. I wonder to what extent death rates are dependent on the quality of the hospital care in any area. Does Midlothian have a poor hospital compared with adjoining areas?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Who knew that the fifth horseman would be being fukking nuts?

    https://twitter.com/ropoem/status/1261976922424254470?s=20

    'mon the immune system.

    The "dirt boosts the immune system" bollocks is persistent as anti-vax. And just as stupid.

    Every time I see a Guardian (type) journalist sneering at the "middle class" idea of washing every day, I feel like misquoting Abe Lincoln, and wishing that cholera be visited upon them.
    I thought there was some truth to it. When I was a child I had innumerable cuts and bruises, all dealt with my loving loving mother with witch hazel iirc. I was led to believe (possibly incorrectly) that the profusion of people who suffered allergies was a direct result of being too mollycoddled and washed inTCP 3 times a day ;)
    In my day it was iodine, bread poultices and vic rub , full medical kit. Cold penny for bumps.
    Beatings will continue until morale (and health) improve.
    We were fit as butchers dogs , outdoors all the time , no fat punters in those days, we covered miles and miles every day.
    And Chiswick in London advertised itself, with the unbelievably low death rate of 6 per thousand per year, as the healthiest place to live in the country....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I think they actually mean the UK government "in England":

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1261981892439674881?s=20

    Like England they imagine UK = England.
    How’s Contact Tracer hiring going in Scotland?
    I assume it is going well, applications do not close till 22nd , you still have time to apply.
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/coronavirus-scotland-despite-8500-people-22039844

    Guernsey has already hired and trained its Contact Tracers - proportionately 50% more than the Scottish Government target.
    So now you know better than the government and scientists on how many tracers they need
    Just making the point that Guernsey has fulfilled 100% of it's target and Scotland 0%. The government's of Guernsey and Scotland face very different challenges - but only one of them hasn't had a new case in 17 days.

    I thought we'd buried that ludicrous comparison the other day.

    I can confirm that Rockall met its quota long before Guernsey.

    Not interested in learning from others? Fair enough.
    I hardly think we could learn anything from an island with 60K population , only a Tory could imagine something so bizarre. If you had said similar population small countries I could agree wholeheartedly.
    See my comments on Ireland.
    Yes not a great comparison , only excuse would be lesser concentration of population but a flimsy one. Strange the rates in Inverclyde and Midlothian but both have small population numbers even though similar other areas much lower.
    Other surprise for me is more affluent south Ayrshire being higher than north Ayrshire
    Never seen an explanation of Inverclyde and Midlothian - it may just be chance in the distribution of early spreaders, esp. with small populations which means more stochastic fluctuation and founder effect. Midlothian at least would also tend to contain numbers of workers for ERI on those radials outward from SE Edinburgh .
    Yes a good few areas have so small a population that they cannot possibly give good numbers for comparison. Ayrshire would have been far more sensible with all 3 areas combined. Same for some other areas.
    Having used all three, Crosshouse Hospital, which serves North and East Ayrshire, is an excellent hospital. Ayr Hospital, which covers South Ayrshire, not so much. Inverclyde, which is the other hospital in our area, is awful. If I had to go back, I would check my will was up to date. Maybe biased because they left my 92 year old Dad in one of those chairs with wheels for 6 hours after a fall. I wonder to what extent death rates are dependent on the quality of the hospital care in any area. Does Midlothian have a poor hospital compared with adjoining areas?
    I used to worry about Crosshouse and my wife swore she would never set foot in it , but after her being in there over 5 weeks ( I gave her no choice) I have to say it was not bad. The HDU where she spent most of the time was much better, superb care, than the ordinary wards where there were not enough staff for the number of patients in my opinion but I cannot complain , few mistakes made mind you. The staff restaurant was pretty good for meals and served great coffee.
  • matthiasfromhamburgmatthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    edited May 2020

    Pulpstar said:

    I wouldn’t have known that Tugendhat was a Jewish name TBH. Do most people?

    I had no idea tbh.
    The surname Tugendhat originates from German speaking Jewish communities in Eastern/Central Europe (Prague and surroundings). To a German speaker it appears somewhat strange to stick any slur to it, because the name is uncommon but sounds quite lovely. It translates literally to "person of virtue". Tugend = virtue; hat = has.
    Historically it has been predominantly, but not exclusively Jewish. There were a number of mosaic/christian converts of that name.
    I'd have guessed that the "hat" is an old version of the German "heit" suffix, so that Tugendhat would mean something like "virtuosity".
    I don't know for sure, your suggestion seems plausible as well, although I can't recall any other example of "heit" evolving into "hat". The one I made ("Jemand, der) Tugend hat" would be more in tune with similar constructs like "Gottlieb", but again, I'm not sure which one it is.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Who knew that the fifth horseman would be being fukking nuts?

    https://twitter.com/ropoem/status/1261976922424254470?s=20

    'mon the immune system.

    The "dirt boosts the immune system" bollocks is persistent as anti-vax. And just as stupid.

    Every time I see a Guardian (type) journalist sneering at the "middle class" idea of washing every day, I feel like misquoting Abe Lincoln, and wishing that cholera be visited upon them.
    I thought there was some truth to it. When I was a child I had innumerable cuts and bruises, all dealt with my loving loving mother with witch hazel iirc. I was led to believe (possibly incorrectly) that the profusion of people who suffered allergies was a direct result of being too mollycoddled and washed inTCP 3 times a day ;)
    In my day it was iodine, bread poultices and vic rub , full medical kit. Cold penny for bumps.
    Beatings will continue until morale (and health) improve.
    We were fit as butchers dogs , outdoors all the time , no fat punters in those days, we covered miles and miles every day.
    And Chiswick in London advertised itself, with the unbelievably low death rate of 6 per thousand per year, as the healthiest place to live in the country....
    where did it all go wrong, bloody Tories.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    edited May 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    I wonder how many letters Brady has?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1262033526519726083

    Well wonder no more my friend! B,R,A,D,Y - I make that 5.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    Interesting divergence in the favourability ratings:

    Net Favourable : ABC1 / C2DE
    Johnson: +1 / +16
    Starmer: +16 / -1
    Patel: -41 / -26

    On the other hand:
    Sunak: +37 / +29

    How that fares when he starts asking for it back is another matter.....

    Yes, those are really interesting. Boris srill has his new red wall supporters, but he's mislaid many of the others. Keir impresses the middle classes, but not yet others. Surprised so many people have a strong opinion about Patel one way or the other.

    On the more important Covid data, they really are starting to look quite encouraging.
    The plebs hate donkeys.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    MattW said:

    Labour is drawing up ambitious proposals to rescue the post-coronavirus economy with a radical green recovery plan focused on helping young people who lose their jobs by retraining them in green industries.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/17/labour-to-plan-green-economic-rescue-from-coronavirus-crisis

    Has anybody told them they lost the GE?

    Recovery plan, yes. Good ideas are welcome. Unfortunately radical and green are likely to be synonyms for total BS that would finish off the economy given the ideologies dominant in the LP at present.
    Isn't much of this just the gibberish from Richard Murphy warmed-over a little?
    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    Golly. I am all for pointing at lefty anti-semites and laughing, but I haven't seen a weaker claim than this. It is a completely pathetic "Foreign names are hilarious, especially when they accidentally contain proper English words" gag, but who knew Tugendhat was a Jewish name, if it is?
    Imagine that someone wrote an article in the Daily Mail, using the comic possibilities of the name of (say) a Muslim advisor to Lord Keith Starmer?

    I always find it a reasonable measure to rotate such things through a sequence of alternates (replace religions, political allegiance etc etc) - if it causes offence in one case, it should cause offence in all.
    It is worth noting that "Sir Keir" sounds a lot like "bell end" in Farsi.

    https://twitter.com/ali7adeh/status/1246753660933201925?lang=en

    If an Iranian newspaer made a joke about this, would it be racist towards the English?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I think they actually mean the UK government "in England":

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1261981892439674881?s=20

    Like England they imagine UK = England.
    How’s Contact Tracer hiring going in Scotland?
    I assume it is going well, applications do not close till 22nd , you still have time to apply.
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/coronavirus-scotland-despite-8500-people-22039844

    Guernsey has already hired and trained its Contact Tracers - proportionately 50% more than the Scottish Government target.
    So now you know better than the government and scientists on how many tracers they need
    Just making the point that Guernsey has fulfilled 100% of it's target and Scotland 0%. The government's of Guernsey and Scotland face very different challenges - but only one of them hasn't had a new case in 17 days.

    I thought we'd buried that ludicrous comparison the other day.

    I can confirm that Rockall met its quota long before Guernsey.

    Not interested in learning from others? Fair enough.
    I hardly think we could learn anything from an island with 60K population , only a Tory could imagine something so bizarre. If you had said similar population small countries I could agree wholeheartedly.
    See my comments on Ireland.
    Yes not a great comparison , only excuse would be lesser concentration of population but a flimsy one. Strange the rates in Inverclyde and Midlothian but both have small population numbers even though similar other areas much lower.
    Other surprise for me is more affluent south Ayrshire being higher than north Ayrshire
    Never seen an explanation of Inverclyde and Midlothian - it may just be chance in the distribution of early spreaders, esp. with small populations which means more stochastic fluctuation and founder effect. Midlothian at least would also tend to contain numbers of workers for ERI on those radials outward from SE Edinburgh .
    Yes a good few areas have so small a population that they cannot possibly give good numbers for comparison. Ayrshire would have been far more sensible with all 3 areas combined. Same for some other areas.
    Having used all three, Crosshouse Hospital, which serves North and East Ayrshire, is an excellent hospital. Ayr Hospital, which covers South Ayrshire, not so much. Inverclyde, which is the other hospital in our area, is awful. If I had to go back, I would check my will was up to date. Maybe biased because they left my 92 year old Dad in one of those chairs with wheels for 6 hours after a fall. I wonder to what extent death rates are dependent on the quality of the hospital care in any area. Does Midlothian have a poor hospital compared with adjoining areas?
    None at all, in the sense of a proper hospital. The 'Midlothian C ommunity Hospital' is just a smallish geriatric hospital with a few added clinics for various purposes added on, as far as I know. The ERI (and Western General and St John's) are our true hospitals. So it can't be a simple matter of poor care compared to, say, anywhere else in Lothian.

    I don't know how many old folks' homes there are.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Who knew that the fifth horseman would be being fukking nuts?

    https://twitter.com/ropoem/status/1261976922424254470?s=20

    'mon the immune system.

    The "dirt boosts the immune system" bollocks is persistent as anti-vax. And just as stupid.

    Every time I see a Guardian (type) journalist sneering at the "middle class" idea of washing every day, I feel like misquoting Abe Lincoln, and wishing that cholera be visited upon them.
    I thought there was some truth to it. When I was a child I had innumerable cuts and bruises, all dealt with my loving loving mother with witch hazel iirc. I was led to believe (possibly incorrectly) that the profusion of people who suffered allergies was a direct result of being too mollycoddled and washed inTCP 3 times a day ;)
    In my day it was iodine, bread poultices and vic rub , full medical kit. Cold penny for bumps.
    Beatings will continue until morale (and health) improve.
    We were fit as butchers dogs , outdoors all the time , no fat punters in those days, we covered miles and miles every day.
    And Chiswick in London advertised itself, with the unbelievably low death rate of 6 per thousand per year, as the healthiest place to live in the country....
    where did it all go wrong, bloody Tories.
    I tried doing some maths on that the other day. I couldn't get exact numbers, but even after COVID19, Chiswick is still doing better than that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    kyf_100 said:

    MattW said:

    Labour is drawing up ambitious proposals to rescue the post-coronavirus economy with a radical green recovery plan focused on helping young people who lose their jobs by retraining them in green industries.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/17/labour-to-plan-green-economic-rescue-from-coronavirus-crisis

    Has anybody told them they lost the GE?

    Recovery plan, yes. Good ideas are welcome. Unfortunately radical and green are likely to be synonyms for total BS that would finish off the economy given the ideologies dominant in the LP at present.
    Isn't much of this just the gibberish from Richard Murphy warmed-over a little?
    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    Golly. I am all for pointing at lefty anti-semites and laughing, but I haven't seen a weaker claim than this. It is a completely pathetic "Foreign names are hilarious, especially when they accidentally contain proper English words" gag, but who knew Tugendhat was a Jewish name, if it is?
    Imagine that someone wrote an article in the Daily Mail, using the comic possibilities of the name of (say) a Muslim advisor to Lord Keith Starmer?

    I always find it a reasonable measure to rotate such things through a sequence of alternates (replace religions, political allegiance etc etc) - if it causes offence in one case, it should cause offence in all.
    It is worth noting that "Sir Keir" sounds a lot like "bell end" in Farsi.

    https://twitter.com/ali7adeh/status/1246753660933201925?lang=en

    If an Iranian newspaer made a joke about this, would it be racist towards the English?

    It depends - are you signed up to the Racial Relativity Matrix theory? Or are you non-insane?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    I thought it was one of those English names actually!

    FPT by the way - you never did explain who King John was/is please ...?
    I think it will be this guy Carnyx.............
    John (24 December 1166 – 19 October 1216) was King of England from 1199 until his death in 1216. He lost the Duchy of Normandy and most of his other French lands to King Philip II of France, resulting in the collapse of the Angevin Empire and contributing to the subsequent growth in power of the French Capetian dynasty during the 13th century. The baronial revolt at the end of John's reign led to the sealing of Magna Carta, a document sometimes considered an early step in the evolution of the constitution of the United Kingdom.

    John was the youngest of the four surviving sons of King Henry II of England and Duchess Eleanor of Aquitaine. He was nicknamed John Lackland because he was not expected to inherit significant lands.[1] He became Henry's favourite child following the failed revolt of 1173–74 by his brothers Henry the Young King, Richard, and Geoffrey against the King. John was appointed the Lord of Ireland in 1177 and given lands in England and on the continent. The war between Henry II and his eldest sons ended with the deaths of Henry the Young King and Geoffrey. John unsuccessfully attempted a rebellion against the royal administrators of his brother, King Richard, whilst Richard was participating in the Third Crusade, but he was proclaimed king after Richard died in 1199. He came to an agreement with Philip II of France to recognise John's possession of the continental Angevin lands at the peace treaty of Le Goulet in 1200.
    THank you! Carlotta also explained the CIs link.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    I'm not sure what Hodges is bleating about. It was quite clearly stated in the briefing that it might not work and a vaccine might never be available, hence the fact that drug treatment trials were also in progress.

    I'm really not sure what he expects the Government to do about this. Chuck the money at the vaccine projects in secret and pretend that they don't exist?
    The uk government are involved in funding 24 different potential vaccines at the moment. But hard to keep that on the down-low.
    It is very hard to get a good TheGovernmentIsHidingTheTruth story going with all this publishing stuff going on. Won't someone please think of the conspiracy theorists?
    The one that gets me is when the press report the ONS figures as though they are some sort of secret alternate set of data from a third party.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    glw said:

    I'm not sure what Hodges is bleating about. It was quite clearly stated in the briefing that it might not work and a vaccine might never be available, hence the fact that drug treatment trials were also in progress.

    I'm really not sure what he expects the Government to do about this. Chuck the money at the vaccine projects in secret and pretend that they don't exist?
    The uk government are involved in funding 24 different potential vaccines at the moment. But hard to keep that on the down-low.
    It is very hard to get a good TheGovernmentIsHidingTheTruth story going with all this publishing stuff going on. Won't someone please think of the conspiracy theorists?
    The one that gets me is when the press report the ONS figures as though they are some sort of secret alternate set of data from a third party.
    Shhhhhh! Don't tell 'im, Pike!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    Is there a difference between petering out and burning out? I'm hearing both.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    tlg86 said:

    No, its the please stick to the lockdown, better days are ahead. If you just told everybody, probably be 2 years, maybe 3, maybe never, could you please stay in your home for 3 months and then still only come out for very specific reasons, lots more people would say f##k it, lets get it and be over it.
    Are governments in other countries telling their people that the UK is working on a vaccine that might be ready quite soon?
    Not quite a government, but these guys seem a whole lot more confident in the UK's capabilities than some of us here are:
    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3082193/indias-vaccine-king-bets-big-oxford-university
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Pulpstar said:

    Big event scheduled in 10 days time, the first launch of astronauts from American soil since July 2011.
    Expect the Musk/Trump love in to continue.

    Wouldn't mind Trump being on board that. Nice long trip.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    Is there a difference between petering out and burning out? I'm hearing both.
    "It's better to burn out than to fade away!"
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Can anyone suggest a link to the data slides for today's briefing? I thought it was a right mess today. No slides full screen, only one bigwig with Sharma. Incomplete data onscreen. We can't blame it all on Zoom, surely?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    Is there a difference between petering out and burning out? I'm hearing both.
    Sikora said both. I think it's a more scientific way of saying fizzle.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878

    Can anyone suggest a link to the data slides for today's briefing? I thought it was a right mess today. No slides full screen, only one bigwig with Sharma. Incomplete data onscreen. We can't blame it all on Zoom, surely?

    Tory Incompetence, surely?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    Is there a difference between petering out and burning out? I'm hearing both.
    "It's better to burn out than to fade away!"
    Yes - "burn out" sounds like it takes a couple of million down in a last blaze of glory.

    Much better from the point of view of the virus. Cements its legacy.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    Is there a difference between petering out and burning out? I'm hearing both.
    "It's better to burn out than to fade away!"
    "Nothing ever burned out by itself - every fizzle needs a little bit of help."
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Who knew that the fifth horseman would be being fukking nuts?

    https://twitter.com/ropoem/status/1261976922424254470?s=20

    'mon the immune system.

    The "dirt boosts the immune system" bollocks is persistent as anti-vax. And just as stupid.

    Every time I see a Guardian (type) journalist sneering at the "middle class" idea of washing every day, I feel like misquoting Abe Lincoln, and wishing that cholera be visited upon them.
    I thought there was some truth to it. When I was a child I had innumerable cuts and bruises, all dealt with my loving loving mother with witch hazel iirc. I was led to believe (possibly incorrectly) that the profusion of people who suffered allergies was a direct result of being too mollycoddled and washed inTCP 3 times a day ;)
    In my day it was iodine, bread poultices and vic rub , full medical kit. Cold penny for bumps.
    Beatings will continue until morale (and health) improve.
    We were fit as butchers dogs , outdoors all the time , no fat punters in those days, we covered miles and miles every day.
    And Chiswick in London advertised itself, with the unbelievably low death rate of 6 per thousand per year, as the healthiest place to live in the country....
    where did it all go wrong, bloody Tories.
    I tried doing some maths on that the other day. I couldn't get exact numbers, but even after COVID19, Chiswick is still doing better than that.
    what magic formula do they have
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    I don't know about anyone else, but I veer between three different attitudes to the Plague:

    1. Optimism - either it turns out that this disease has a lower than expected threshold for herd immunity, or a vaccination or drug treatment trial tames it at some point in the next few months
    2. Pessimism - we're going to be stuck with the misery of social distancing for years, it's going to destroy the economy and make everyone's lives unbearable. Mass cliff-jumping and wrist-slitting will commence by Christmas at the latest
    3. Fatalism - the disease will take off again but attempts to reimpose lockdown will fail because people will have lost all faith in it. Best efforts will be made to protect the vulnerable and will hopefully do some good; much of the rest of the population will get it, and it'll burn itself out by the end of the year

    I've the personal aspect and the societal aspect. Personally, I'm scared of this virus and have adapted how I live and interact with people to avoid catching it until a vaccine becomes available.

    At a wider level, once it became clear this wasn't an extinction-level pandemic, it was inevitable human ingenuity would rapidly seek to understand and find solutions to the problem. Changes have and will continue to be made but we are in a better place than we were two months ago.

    This is why I'm absolutely confident climate change can and will be addressed - human ingenuity and adaptability are infinite - we will change how we live and adapt while technology is harnessed to save the planet.

    Short of a global nuclear war or an artificial pandemic of extinction-level proportions and assuming astronomical events don't intervene, I view the future with cautious optimism.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Chris said:

    On the Oxford vaccine, I don't know whether this has been posted, but it's worth reading:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/05/16/did-the-oxford-covid-vaccine-work-in-monkeys-not-really/#45572ba13c71

    I noted on here that Witty the other day was much more cautious about vaccines. Its like he had read some new academic material or something.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Can anyone suggest a link to the data slides for today's briefing? I thought it was a right mess today. No slides full screen, only one bigwig with Sharma. Incomplete data onscreen. We can't blame it all on Zoom, surely?

    Does anyone actually care ?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    As expected, hard pressed local authorities are the next group seeking Government help:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52697979
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Can anyone suggest a link to the data slides for today's briefing? I thought it was a right mess today. No slides full screen, only one bigwig with Sharma. Incomplete data onscreen. We can't blame it all on Zoom, surely?

    Does anyone actually care ?
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conference-17-may-2020
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    Can anyone suggest a link to the data slides for today's briefing? I thought it was a right mess today. No slides full screen, only one bigwig with Sharma. Incomplete data onscreen. We can't blame it all on Zoom, surely?

    Does anyone actually care ?
    you would need to be pretty desperate to want copies of that crap
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    stodge said:

    As expected, hard pressed local authorities are the next group seeking Government help:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52697979

    The magic money forest is being cleared faster than a typical burn season in the Amazon basin...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Who knew that the fifth horseman would be being fukking nuts?

    https://twitter.com/ropoem/status/1261976922424254470?s=20

    'mon the immune system.

    The "dirt boosts the immune system" bollocks is persistent as anti-vax. And just as stupid.

    Every time I see a Guardian (type) journalist sneering at the "middle class" idea of washing every day, I feel like misquoting Abe Lincoln, and wishing that cholera be visited upon them.
    I thought there was some truth to it. When I was a child I had innumerable cuts and bruises, all dealt with my loving loving mother with witch hazel iirc. I was led to believe (possibly incorrectly) that the profusion of people who suffered allergies was a direct result of being too mollycoddled and washed inTCP 3 times a day ;)
    In my day it was iodine, bread poultices and vic rub , full medical kit. Cold penny for bumps.
    Beatings will continue until morale (and health) improve.
    We were fit as butchers dogs , outdoors all the time , no fat punters in those days, we covered miles and miles every day.
    And Chiswick in London advertised itself, with the unbelievably low death rate of 6 per thousand per year, as the healthiest place to live in the country....
    where did it all go wrong, bloody Tories.
    I tried doing some maths on that the other day. I couldn't get exact numbers, but even after COVID19, Chiswick is still doing better than that.
    what magic formula do they have
    Nothing magical - just that people used to die much more often in the Good Olde Days
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060

    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    Here is Karol Sikora again, telling us he suspects there's more immunity than estimated, and the pandemic could be petering out. Later he asks whether 50% [sic] are already infected.
    https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora

    Is there a difference between petering out and burning out? I'm hearing both.
    "It's better to burn out than to fade away!"
    "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long"
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Can anyone suggest a link to the data slides for today's briefing? I thought it was a right mess today. No slides full screen, only one bigwig with Sharma. Incomplete data onscreen. We can't blame it all on Zoom, surely?

    Does anyone actually care ?
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conference-17-may-2020
    Thanks. I only want it for the record.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    stodge said:

    As expected, hard pressed local authorities are the next group seeking Government help:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52697979

    The magic money forest is being cleared faster than a typical burn season in the Amazon basin...
    Local authorities of all political persuasions have been at the front-line of all this and speaking to clients across the political spectrum I hear the same story of unprecedented demand and a collapse in income.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,947
    Malcolm. Just shows that the most important component of a hospital is the staff.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Trials for a second UK-based vaccine project - by Imperial College London - will begin in October

    Fairly sure initially they were taking about the summer for start their trials.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Can anyone suggest a link to the data slides for today's briefing? I thought it was a right mess today. No slides full screen, only one bigwig with Sharma. Incomplete data onscreen. We can't blame it all on Zoom, surely?

    Does anyone actually care ?
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conference-17-may-2020
    I've noticed that, despite all the caterwauling about a spike in public transport use in London after the Boris broadcast last weekend (and OMFG the virus will spread like wildfire and we're all going to die,) the trend line for the Tube appears to show no increase in passengers at all.

    The TfL bus numbers are no longer available, presumably because they have stopped charging passengers, so I suppose that it is theoretically possible that some huge increase in demand for them isn't being picked up - but the national railway and bus graphs are also completely flat.

    The hospital numbers appear still to be steadily declining; the positive tests have been disappointingly sticky over the last few days though, so we'll have to see if that continues.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Can anyone suggest a link to the data slides for today's briefing? I thought it was a right mess today. No slides full screen, only one bigwig with Sharma. Incomplete data onscreen. We can't blame it all on Zoom, surely?

    Does anyone actually care ?
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conference-17-may-2020
    I've noticed that, despite all the caterwauling about a spike in public transport use in London after the Boris broadcast last weekend (and OMFG the virus will spread like wildfire and we're all going to die,) the trend line for the Tube appears to show no increase in passengers at all.

    The TfL bus numbers are no longer available, presumably because they have stopped charging passengers, so I suppose that it is theoretically possible that some huge increase in demand for them isn't being picked up - but the national railway and bus graphs are also completely flat.

    The hospital numbers appear still to be steadily declining; the positive tests have been disappointingly sticky over the last few days though, so we'll have to see if that continues.
    Yes, I noticed that. I think that after not looking at public transport for a while, it suddenly appeared on the press radar again.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    Can anyone suggest a link to the data slides for today's briefing? I thought it was a right mess today. No slides full screen, only one bigwig with Sharma. Incomplete data onscreen. We can't blame it all on Zoom, surely?

    Does anyone actually care ?
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conference-17-may-2020
    indeed
    they are all in the same place :/
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    kyf_100 said:

    MattW said:

    Labour is drawing up ambitious proposals to rescue the post-coronavirus economy with a radical green recovery plan focused on helping young people who lose their jobs by retraining them in green industries.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/17/labour-to-plan-green-economic-rescue-from-coronavirus-crisis

    Has anybody told them they lost the GE?

    Recovery plan, yes. Good ideas are welcome. Unfortunately radical and green are likely to be synonyms for total BS that would finish off the economy given the ideologies dominant in the LP at present.
    Isn't much of this just the gibberish from Richard Murphy warmed-over a little?
    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    Why did the Guardian think this was clever?

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1262023800276881412?s=20

    James O'Brien says he doesn't think he meant it, but taking the mick out of foreign sounding names is fair game anyway, whats the fuss?

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1262030864235393024?s=20
    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1261986981438988293?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1262021419225006080?s=20
    Golly. I am all for pointing at lefty anti-semites and laughing, but I haven't seen a weaker claim than this. It is a completely pathetic "Foreign names are hilarious, especially when they accidentally contain proper English words" gag, but who knew Tugendhat was a Jewish name, if it is?
    Imagine that someone wrote an article in the Daily Mail, using the comic possibilities of the name of (say) a Muslim advisor to Lord Keith Starmer?

    I always find it a reasonable measure to rotate such things through a sequence of alternates (replace religions, political allegiance etc etc) - if it causes offence in one case, it should cause offence in all.
    It is worth noting that "Sir Keir" sounds a lot like "bell end" in Farsi.

    https://twitter.com/ali7adeh/status/1246753660933201925?lang=en

    If an Iranian newspaer made a joke about this, would it be racist towards the English?

    Since Keir is of entirely Scottish/Gaelic origin, outrage would be a bit misplaced, unless you thought it was a vile slur against the British/English honours system?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316

    Chris said:

    On the Oxford vaccine, I don't know whether this has been posted, but it's worth reading:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/05/16/did-the-oxford-covid-vaccine-work-in-monkeys-not-really/#45572ba13c71

    I noted on here that Witty the other day was much more cautious about vaccines. Its like he had read some new academic material or something.
    Vaccines are hard & something of a black art. Some interesting articles on the topic by Derek Lowe on his blog "In The Pipeline" here: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/

    In particular, PB readers might be interested in his overview of leading vaccine candidates: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/23/a-close-look-at-the-frontrunning-coronavirus-vaccines-as-of-april-23
    & this article, where he talks about vaccine development, timelines etc etc: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/15/coronavirus-vaccine-prospects
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I think they actually mean the UK government "in England":

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1261981892439674881?s=20

    Like England they imagine UK = England.
    How’s Contact Tracer hiring going in Scotland?
    I assume it is going well, applications do not close till 22nd , you still have time to apply.
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/coronavirus-scotland-despite-8500-people-22039844

    Guernsey has already hired and trained its Contact Tracers - proportionately 50% more than the Scottish Government target.
    So now you know better than the government and scientists on how many tracers they need
    Just making the point that Guernsey has fulfilled 100% of it's target and Scotland 0%. The government's of Guernsey and Scotland face very different challenges - but only one of them hasn't had a new case in 17 days.

    I thought we'd buried that ludicrous comparison the other day.

    I can confirm that Rockall met its quota long before Guernsey.

    Not interested in learning from others? Fair enough.
    I hardly think we could learn anything from an island with 60K population , only a Tory could imagine something so bizarre. If you had said similar population small countries I could agree wholeheartedly.
    See my comments on Ireland.
    Yes not a great comparison , only excuse would be lesser concentration of population but a flimsy one. Strange the rates in Inverclyde and Midlothian but both have small population numbers even though similar other areas much lower.
    Other surprise for me is more affluent south Ayrshire being higher than north Ayrshire
    Never seen an explanation of Inverclyde and Midlothian - it may just be chance in the distribution of early spreaders, esp. with small populations which means more stochastic fluctuation and founder effect. Midlothian at least would also tend to contain numbers of workers for ERI on those radials outward from SE Edinburgh .
    Yes a good few areas have so small a population that they cannot possibly give good numbers for comparison. Ayrshire would have been far more sensible with all 3 areas combined. Same for some other areas.
    Having used all three, Crosshouse Hospital, which serves North and East Ayrshire, is an excellent hospital. Ayr Hospital, which covers South Ayrshire, not so much. Inverclyde, which is the other hospital in our area, is awful. If I had to go back, I would check my will was up to date. Maybe biased because they left my 92 year old Dad in one of those chairs with wheels for 6 hours after a fall. I wonder to what extent death rates are dependent on the quality of the hospital care in any area. Does Midlothian have a poor hospital compared with adjoining areas?
    Even within one hospital one department or ward can be far better than another.

    The figure that you want to know is the Standardised Hospital Mortality Index (SHMI). The English figures are published here, not sure if Scotland does the same.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/clinical-indicators/shmi/current

    These adjust by case mix, age of population, deprivation etc.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404

    the positive tests have been disappointingly sticky over the last few days though, so we'll have to see if that continues.

    If the people being infected are skewed younger (I am assuming that is the group most likely to take risks) then it might not be seen in the hospital numbers.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    edited May 2020


    I've noticed that, despite all the caterwauling about a spike in public transport use in London after the Boris broadcast last weekend (and OMFG the virus will spread like wildfire and we're all going to die,) the trend line for the Tube appears to show no increase in passengers at all.

    The TfL bus numbers are no longer available, presumably because they have stopped charging passengers, so I suppose that it is theoretically possible that some huge increase in demand for them isn't being picked up - but the national railway and bus graphs are also completely flat.

    There was some video shot at North Acton which was used by the anti-lock down media as evidence said lock down was collapsing and should be eased.

    North Acton is where Central Line trains from Ealing Broadway meet those coming from West Ruislip so it's not surprising you see people getting off one Central Line onto another (the same happens at Leytonstone). What the video doesn't show is how full or empty the trains were but that wasn't the point - the image was aimed to illustrate the lock down in London was collapsing and people in their hordes were returning to work.

    As you say, passenger number and other anecdotal evidence suggests tubes and trains are and remain very quiet. Buses will be charging again from tomorrow as part of the "deal" Sadiq Khan was forced to make with the Government to keep any kind of service going.

    The Government take over of Transport for London (akin to what happened in Northamptonshire) hasn't yet been mirrored among the rail operators but they too are running almost empty trains and must be suffering financially.
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