Beyond that we still need more data on how (and where) the virus spreads. Bars and restaurants might be safe: hot food and alcohol; washed up plates and glasses. I think HMG was taken by surprise when the big chains closed their takeaway operations which were OK under the guidelines.
When I asked some years ago why all our office kitchens had dishwashers fitted, I was told that it is a H&S hygiene requirement that all commercial restaurants wash their dishes and cutlery at > 70c (i.e. too high for hand washing).
So the question is: is 70c enough?
Nope. Well not according to the piece I read a day or two ago. I may have even posted a link here. Researchers had to get to 90 degrees to kill the bastard iirc.
you did.
Longer report reproduced here, editing & bold is mine:
The new coronavirus can survive long exposure to high temperatures, according to an experiment by a team of French scientists.
Professor Remi Charrel and colleagues at the Aix-Marseille University in southern France heated the virus that causes Covid-19 to 60 degrees Celsius (140 Fahrenheit) for an hour and found that some strains were still able to replicate. The scientists had to bring the temperature to almost boiling point to kill the virus completely, according to their non-peer-reviewed paper released on bioRxiv.org on Saturday.
The team in France infected African green monkey kidney cells, a standard host material for viral activity tests, with a strain isolated from a patient in Berlin, Germany. The cells were loaded into tubes representing two different types of environments, one “clean” and the other “dirty” with animal proteins to simulate biological contamination in real-life samples, such as an oral swab.
After the heating, the viral strains in the clean environment were thoroughly deactivated. Some strains in the dirty samples, however, survived. The heating process resulted in a clear drop in infectivity but enough living strains remained to be able to start another round of infection, said the paper.
There had been hope that hotter weather, such as that in Singapore or northern hemisphere countries heading into summer, might reduce the spread of Covid-19. The heating process resulted in a clear drop in infectivity but enough living strains remained to be able to start another round of infection, said the paper.
The 60-degrees Celsius, hour-long protocol has been adapted in many testing labs to suppress a wide range of deadly viruses, including Ebola. For the new coronavirus, this temperature may be enough for samples with low viral loads because it could kill a large proportion of the strains. But it may be dangerous for samples with extremely high amounts of the virus, according to the researchers.
The French team found a higher temperature could help solve the problem. For instance, heating the samples to 92 degrees Celsius for 15 minutes rendered the virus completely inactive.
“The results presented in this study should help to choose the best suited protocol for inactivation in order to prevent exposure of laboratory personnel in charge of direct and indirect detection of Sars-CoV-2 for diagnostic purpose,” wrote the authors.
--- "it's a bit more complicated than that"
Combined with the news today from the WHO that there is so far no evidence that having the virus confers long term immunity, this has been a pretty rotten day for the fight against CV-19.
As I have said before many people seem to assume there will be a solution to this. There is no guarantee there will be.
We may just have to adapt to it being a part of life for several years to come as we get hit with new waves of it. Life will not fully return to pre-virus "normal" until an effective vaccine has been found and mass produced. That could easily be at least a couple of years away
It could be never.
We have never found a vaccine for a human coronavirus, eg the common cold
We have never found a vaccine for SARs either but the WHO declared it contained in summer 2003
SARS only killed 774 people worldwide.
888 people died of Covid-19 just in the UK today.
More people have died of one of the strains of flu than have yet died of Covid 19, life goes on, the focus should be on containment until a vaccine can be found
Other strains of flu have been around for decades. The current death toll, massively under reported is in 5 months. Plus the problem is much more than just about numbers of deaths.
Yes but it does give some perspective.
Former plagues in this country like Spanish flu, the Great Plague of the 1660s or Black Death also had a far higher death rate than Covid 19 and we did not have the lockdown capacity or testing capacity then we have now nor the ability to find a vaccine
I don't think that we are as reconciled to mass death via the fickle finger of infectious disease as our great grandparents were.
Can you define mass death for me, perhaps put a number on it?
The UK government (right or wrongly ) deliberately killed 25,000 in the fire bombing of Dresden in one night. Not sure why we are destroying the economy and kids lives to protect against a virus that will need to be got by a large amount of the population anyway before it goes away.
So recommendation is no precautions should be taken at all then?
well I get the trying to slow it to allow the NHS to not get overwhelmed to some extent and sensible social distancing measures are fine but schools need to open as to large parts of the economy as soon as possible . We will have an awful time coping with the poverty and inflation and depression that is coming becasue of this lockdown
Schools need to open.
So no social distancing at all then?
Well, the logical alternative to not re-opening the schools is to abolish them and legislate to force one parent or guardian to remain at home with a child until they reach the age of 18. We dig out some of the ideas from the last Labour manifesto - give every household free broadband and IT equipment - and then the children do all of their learning remotely. We establish a central educational institute for providing lessons in all the various specialisms, assign each child one tutor to counsel them and to check personally on their progress, make the remainder of the teaching profession redundant and sell all the schools off for housing, which would help to pay off some of the costs of dealing with the pandemic and release an enormous bank of brownfield land for development.
The first priority in all of this is to educate the children. If we then take it as read that we have no idea when we'll be able to abandon social distancing (and it could be years); that it is impossible to implement social distancing in the school environment; and that equipping every child and teacher with disposable full-body hazmat suits would result in an impossibly large requirement both for fresh PPE and the disposal of contaminated waste; then whatever solution to providing education that then remains, however radical, must be correct?
School's out forever it is, then.
That’s state schools. Independent schools would be face to face used by those who can afford them. That would go down well. Online learning is actually seen as a likely change in time but your idea of punishing parents for daring to have children would be a particularly hard sell. Answering a logical argument with mad ravings isn’t a good look.
On the other hand, we could just plan for schools to restart in September when we are likely to have testing, tracking and tracing setup and so we don’t have to spread PPE even further, which seems a lot easier. Better than having it used as a ritual sacrifice to the gods of whatever for no measurable gain.
There’s something to be said for changing the start of the school year to January, that would be an interesting idea. There is no real reason why we couldn’t have what would have been the missed term starting in September and moving the start of the next year then. See? Simple to think of logical solutions rather than misplaced hyperbole.
Just had a nice long nightwalk. No ambulances this time, thankfully. God awful depressing day before that, though. Getting proper testing seems to be like trying to catch up to a rainbow; however far you walk, you never get any closer.
Beyond that we still need more data on how (and where) the virus spreads. Bars and restaurants might be safe: hot food and alcohol; washed up plates and glasses. I think HMG was taken by surprise when the big chains closed their takeaway operations which were OK under the guidelines.
When I asked some years ago why all our office kitchens had dishwashers fitted, I was told that it is a H&S hygiene requirement that all commercial restaurants wash their dishes and cutlery at > 70c (i.e. too high for hand washing).
So the question is: is 70c enough?
Nope. Well not according to the piece I read a day or two ago. I may have even posted a link here. Researchers had to get to 90 degrees to kill the bastard iirc.
you did.
Longer report reproduced here, editing & bold is mine:
The new coronavirus can survive long exposure to high temperatures, according to an experiment by a team of French scientists.
Professor Remi Charrel and colleagues at the Aix-Marseille University in southern France heated the virus that causes Covid-19 to 60 degrees Celsius (140 Fahrenheit) for an hour and found that some strains were still able to replicate. The scientists had to bring the temperature to almost boiling point to kill the virus completely, according to their non-peer-reviewed paper released on bioRxiv.org on Saturday.
The team in France infected African green monkey kidney cells, a standard host material for viral activity tests, with a strain isolated from a patient in Berlin, Germany. The cells were loaded into tubes representing two different types of environments, one “clean” and the other “dirty” with animal proteins to simulate biological contamination in real-life samples, such as an oral swab.
After the heating, the viral strains in the clean environment were thoroughly deactivated. Some strains in the dirty samples, however, survived. The heating process resulted in a clear drop in infectivity but enough living strains remained to be able to start another round of infection, said the paper.
There had been hope that hotter weather, such as that in Singapore or northern hemisphere countries heading into summer, might reduce the spread of Covid-19. The heating process resulted in a clear drop in infectivity but enough living strains remained to be able to start another round of infection, said the paper.
The 60-degrees Celsius, hour-long protocol has been adapted in many testing labs to suppress a wide range of deadly viruses, including Ebola. For the new coronavirus, this temperature may be enough for samples with low viral loads because it could kill a large proportion of the strains. But it may be dangerous for samples with extremely high amounts of the virus, according to the researchers.
The French team found a higher temperature could help solve the problem. For instance, heating the samples to 92 degrees Celsius for 15 minutes rendered the virus completely inactive.
“The results presented in this study should help to choose the best suited protocol for inactivation in order to prevent exposure of laboratory personnel in charge of direct and indirect detection of Sars-CoV-2 for diagnostic purpose,” wrote the authors.
--- "it's a bit more complicated than that"
Combined with the news today from the WHO that there is so far no evidence that having the virus confers long term immunity, this has been a pretty rotten day for the fight against CV-19.
As I have said before many people seem to assume there will be a solution to this. There is no guarantee there will be.
We may just have to adapt to it being a part of life for several years to come as we get hit with new waves of it. Life will not fully return to pre-virus "normal" until an effective vaccine has been found and mass produced. That could easily be at least a couple of years away
It could be never.
We have never found a vaccine for a human coronavirus, eg the common cold
We have never found a vaccine for SARs either but the WHO declared it contained in summer 2003
SARS only killed 774 people worldwide.
888 people died of Covid-19 just in the UK today.
More people have died of one of the strains of flu than have yet died of Covid 19, life goes on, the focus should be on containment until a vaccine can be found
Other strains of flu have been around for decades. The current death toll, massively under reported is in 5 months. Plus the problem is much more than just about numbers of deaths.
Yes but it does give some perspective.
Former plagues in this country like Spanish flu, the Great Plague of the 1660s or Black Death also had a far higher death rate than Covid 19 and we did not have the lockdown capacity or testing capacity then we have now nor the ability to find a vaccine
I don't think that we are as reconciled to mass death via the fickle finger of infectious disease as our great grandparents were.
Can you define mass death for me, perhaps put a number on it?
100,000 excess deaths in one season
World, Europe, UK, Shepherds Bush?
UK
Is anyone sensible putting anything like that number on the table at present?
If Twitter is anything like Britain (a quite enormous IF) then Boris is fucked.
I have no idea whether Boris is fucked or not but Twitter in no way resembles Britain. Evidence for this is practically every anti-Government campaign in the last decade which has seen massive social media support which has utterly failed to translate into action at the ballot box. The twitter bubble is even less representative of anything in real life than the Westminster bubble.
If Twitter is anything like Britain (a quite enormous IF) then Boris is fucked.
Why?
I do a PH test on Twitter now and again, knowing that it is balanced towards the Acidic - ie the anti Tory Left
But the reaction to the Sunday Times story is off the dial. It gives everyone who has a reason to hate Boris - from Remainers to Corbynites - a fantastic, apocalyptic reason to hate Boris even more.
Will it have any wider effect? Who knows. In Deep Britain they still like him. But the longer he remains off camera the greater the threat, and if I was a well known Tory SPAD I would be awaiting the next polls with trepidation
No Boris is fine at present. We are all still huddled around the flag singing the National Anthem, that might change.
It will be the unemployment and the home and car repossessions that will do for the Tories not Covid-19.
If Twitter is anything like Britain (a quite enormous IF) then Boris is fucked.
I have no idea whether Boris is fucked or not but Twitter in no way resembles Britain. Evidence for this is practically every anti-Government campaign in the last decade which has seen massive social media support which has utterly failed to translate into action at the ballot box. The twitter bubble is even less representative of anything in real life than the Westminster bubble.
I generally agree - hence why I said AN ENORMOUS IF
But there are massive warning klaxons for HMG here. Twitter is like a caffeinated canary in a coal mine. Often you can ignore the squawking, but not always
The canary is still singing sweetly. That is not to say there is no methane gas in the shaft, you might just not have found it yet.
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Spain’s prime minister Pedro Sanchez said on Saturday he would ask parliament for a third 15-day extension of the lockdown imposed to curb one of the world’s worst outbreaks of the new coronavirus, taking the restrictions up to 9 May.
Sanchez said he wanted to relax restrictions on children, who would be allowed out of their homes after 27 April, though that allowance would be “limited and subject to conditions to avoid contagion”. He did not go into further details.
Spain has begun to ease a strict lockdown imposed on 14 March and this week opened up some sectors of the economy, including manufacturing. But most people are still confined to their houses except for essential outings including shopping for food.
Nobody allowed out of their house except children is such a great movie premise
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
Spain’s prime minister Pedro Sanchez said on Saturday he would ask parliament for a third 15-day extension of the lockdown imposed to curb one of the world’s worst outbreaks of the new coronavirus, taking the restrictions up to 9 May.
Sanchez said he wanted to relax restrictions on children, who would be allowed out of their homes after 27 April, though that allowance would be “limited and subject to conditions to avoid contagion”. He did not go into further details.
Spain has begun to ease a strict lockdown imposed on 14 March and this week opened up some sectors of the economy, including manufacturing. But most people are still confined to their houses except for essential outings including shopping for food.
Nobody allowed out of their house except children is such a great movie premise
Be interested to see Government approval and whether there is any change.
Will Labour ever break through?
The answer is no
A really thoughtful and insightful analysis if you don't mind me saying.
Well CHB believes in what the labour party currently stands for and the 2019 manifesto. It has been explained on here countless times that this country is not ready to accept such a manifesto but people like CHB choose to find other scapegoats...it was the labour right wing infighting....it was Corbyn that was unpopular. Only so many times you can say people don't really want such a manifesto before it gets tiring.
Starmer has committed to keep to the Corbynite style manifesto therefore Labour remain a voting irrelevance for most of the country. I merely gave him the brief answer as it would be a waste of breath to say more
He has removed certain things like the ending of private education and shifted towards a more pro single market approach and taken a tougher line on anti Semitism.
However yes it is unlikely he will get a majority on his current platform, if he becomes PM it will likely be propped up by the LDs with Ed Davey pushing him in a more centrist direction
Without Scotland Starmer can whistle for a majority, and he won't get one. That doesn't mean to say other alternatives are not available.
Yes, though I think he might pick up a few seats there. However if he gets to 270+ seats he would probably have enough seats to form a government with LD and SNP support even if still short of a majority.
Although the LDs ruled out a deal with Corbyn remember had Labour dumped Brown for David Miliband soon after the 2010 election it is not impossible the coalition then could have been Labour and LD not Tory and LD
There is an inherent danger for Labour in accepting anything from the SNP that involves an IndyRef2. That isn't going to be an easy sell.
Which is why it would be better for Starmer to pick up some SNP seats in Scotland so he only needs LD not SNP support
True, but unlikely to pick up SNP seats.
Not necessarily, Starmer polls better with Scots than English Leavers for instance
Beyond that we still need more data on how (and where) the virus spreads. Bars and restaurants might be safe: hot food and alcohol; washed up plates and glasses. I think HMG was taken by surprise when the big chains closed their takeaway operations which were OK under the guidelines.
When I asked some years ago why all our office kitchens had dishwashers fitted, I was told that it is a H&S hygiene requirement that all commercial restaurants wash their dishes and cutlery at > 70c (i.e. too high for hand washing).
So the question is: is 70c enough?
Nope. Well not according to the piece I read a day or two ago. I may have even posted a link here. Researchers had to get to 90 degrees to kill the bastard iirc.
you did.
Longer report reproduced here, editing & bold is mine:
The new coronavirus can survive long exposure to high temperatures, according to an experiment by a team of French scientists.
Professor Remi Charrel and colleagues at the Aix-Marseille University in southern France heated the virus that causes Covid-19 to 60 degrees Celsius (140 Fahrenheit) for an hour and found that some strains were still able to replicate. The scientists had to bring the temperature to almost boiling point to kill the virus completely, according to their non-peer-reviewed paper released on bioRxiv.org on Saturday.
The team in France infected African green monkey kidney cells, a standard host material for viral activity tests, with a strain isolated from a patient in Berlin, Germany. The cells were loaded into tubes representing two different types of environments, one “clean” and the other “dirty” with animal proteins to simulate biological contamination in real-life samples, such as an oral swab.
After the heating, the viral strains in the clean environment were thoroughly deactivated. Some strains in the dirty samples, however, survived. The heating process resulted in a clear drop in infectivity but enough living strains remained to be able to start another round of infection, said the paper.
There had been hope that hotter weather, such as that in Singapore or northern hemisphere countries heading into summer, might reduce the spread of Covid-19. The heating process resulted in a clear drop in infectivity but enough living strains remained to be able to start another round of infection, said the paper.
The 60-degrees Celsius, hour-long protocol has been adapted in many testing labs to suppress a wide range of deadly viruses, including Ebola. For the new coronavirus, this temperature may be enough for samples with low viral loads because it could kill a large proportion of the strains. But it may be dangerous for samples with extremely high amounts of the virus, according to the researchers.
The French team found a higher temperature could help solve the problem. For instance, heating the samples to 92 degrees Celsius for 15 minutes rendered the virus completely inactive.
“The results presented in this study should help to choose the best suited protocol for inactivation in order to prevent exposure of laboratory personnel in charge of direct and indirect detection of Sars-CoV-2 for diagnostic purpose,” wrote the authors.
--- "it's a bit more complicated than that"
Combined with the news today from the WHO that there is so far no evidence that having the virus confers long term immunity, this has been a pretty rotten day for the fight against CV-19.
As I have said before many people seem to assume there will be a solution to this. There is no guarantee there will be.
We may just have to adapt to it being a part of life for several years to come as we get hit with new waves of it. Life will not fully return to pre-virus "normal" until an effective vaccine has been found and mass produced. That could easily be at least a couple of years away
It could be never.
We have never found a vaccine for a human coronavirus, eg the common cold
We have never found a vaccine for SARs either but the WHO declared it contained in summer 2003
SARS only killed 774 people worldwide.
888 people died of Covid-19 just in the UK today.
More people have died of one of the strains of flu than have yet died of Covid 19, life goes on, the focus should be on containment until a vaccine can be found
Other strains of flu have been around for decades. The current death toll, massively under reported is in 5 months. Plus the problem is much more than just about numbers of deaths.
Yes but it does give some perspective.
Former plagues in this country like Spanish flu, the Great Plague of the 1660s or Black Death also had a far higher death rate than Covid 19 and we did not have the lockdown capacity or testing capacity then we have now nor the ability to find a vaccine
I don't think that we are as reconciled to mass death via the fickle finger of infectious disease as our great grandparents were.
Can you define mass death for me, perhaps put a number on it?
100,000 excess deaths in one season
World, Europe, UK, Shepherds Bush?
UK
Is anyone sensible putting anything like that number on the table at present?
Well, yes. The initial Imperial study which freaked Boris out of his torpor was 500,000 dead with herd immunity and 250,000 dead with mitigation (very mild lockdown)
So 100,000 is quite conservative. Indeed 100,000 is a bare minimum, over years, if we don’t get a vaccine or a treatment. This is the inexorable maths of pandemia.
It will probably infect 50% of the nation. It probably has a fatality rate of 1%+
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Be interested to see Government approval and whether there is any change.
Will Labour ever break through?
The answer is no
A really thoughtful and insightful analysis if you don't mind me saying.
Well CHB believes in what the labour party currently stands for and the 2019 manifesto. It has been explained on here countless times that this country is not ready to accept such a manifesto but people like CHB choose to find other scapegoats...it was the labour right wing infighting....it was Corbyn that was unpopular. Only so many times you can say people don't really want such a manifesto before it gets tiring.
Starmer has committed to keep to the Corbynite style manifesto therefore Labour remain a voting irrelevance for most of the country. I merely gave him the brief answer as it would be a waste of breath to say more
Starmer is not keeping a 'corbynite' agenda. The shadow cabinet appointments and Starmer's own sentiment is far from Corbyn left. We have lived in a decade of very poor opposition and some questionable centre right regimes have muddled through due to this. Maybe if it ever gets back to normal the alternate reality may play out with Starmer's sensible centre left being seen as a cosy alternative to the current crop.
Starmer was elected on the same mass nationalisation manifesto as proposed by Corbyn.
Sad milestone for the US over the last few days since they use this as a measure. They have now lost more people in the last 2 months to CV-19 than they lost in the whole of the Vietnam War.
Sad milestone for the US over the last few days since they use this as a measure. They have now lost more people in the last 2 months to CV-19 than they lost in the whole of the Vietnam War.
To be brutally honest.
71% of the deaths are people over 65, says worldometer.
If Twitter is anything like Britain (a quite enormous IF) then Boris is fucked.
I have no idea whether Boris is fucked or not but Twitter in no way resembles Britain. Evidence for this is practically every anti-Government campaign in the last decade which has seen massive social media support which has utterly failed to translate into action at the ballot box. The twitter bubble is even less representative of anything in real life than the Westminster bubble.
Beyond that we still need more data on how (and where) the virus spreads. Bars and restaurants might be safe: hot food and alcohol; washed up plates and glasses. I think HMG was taken by surprise when the big chains closed their takeaway operations which were OK under the guidelines.
When I asked some years ago why all our office kitchens had dishwashers fitted, I was told that it is a H&S hygiene requirement that all commercial restaurants wash their dishes and cutlery at > 70c (i.e. too high for hand washing).
So the question is: is 70c enough?
Nope. Well not according to the piece I read a day or two ago. I may have even posted a link here. Researchers had to get to 90 degrees to kill the bastard iirc.
you did.
Longer report reproduced here, editing & bold is mine:
The new coronavirus can survive long exposure to high temperatures, according to an experiment by a team of French scientists.
Professor Remi Charrel and colleagues at the Aix-Marseille University in southern France heated the virus that causes Covid-19 to 60 degrees Celsius (140 Fahrenheit) for an hour and found that some strains were still able to replicate. The scientists had to bring the temperature to almost boiling point to kill the virus completely, according to their non-peer-reviewed paper released on bioRxiv.org on Saturday.
The team in France infected African green monkey kidney cells, a standard host material for viral activity tests, with a strain isolated from a patient in Berlin, Germany. The cells were loaded into tubes representing two different types of environments, one “clean” and the other “dirty” with animal proteins to simulate biological contamination in real-life samples, such as an oral swab.
After the heating, the viral strains in the clean environment were thoroughly deactivated. Some strains in the dirty samples, however, survived. The heating process resulted in a clear drop in infectivity but enough living strains remained to be able to start another round of infection, said the paper.
There had been hope that hotter weather, such as that in Singapore or northern hemisphere countries heading into summer, might reduce the spread of Covid-19. The heating process resulted in a clear drop in infectivity but enough living strains remained to be able to start another round of infection, said the paper.
The 60-degrees Celsius, hour-long protocol has been adapted in many testing labs to suppress a wide range of deadly viruses, including Ebola. For the new coronavirus, this temperature may be enough for samples with low viral loads because it could kill a large proportion of the strains. But it may be dangerous for samples with extremely high amounts of the virus, according to the researchers.
The French team found a higher temperature could help solve the problem. For instance, heating the samples to 92 degrees Celsius for 15 minutes rendered the virus completely inactive.
“The results presented in this study should help to choose the best suited protocol for inactivation in order to prevent exposure of laboratory personnel in charge of direct and indirect detection of Sars-CoV-2 for diagnostic purpose,” wrote the authors.
--- "it's a bit more complicated than that"
Combined with the news today from the WHO that there is so far no evidence that having the virus confers long term immunity, this has been a pretty rotten day for the fight against CV-19.
As I have said before many people seem to assume there will be a solution to this. There is no guarantee there will be.
We may just have to adapt to it being a part of life for several years to come as we get hit with new waves of it. Life will not fully return to pre-virus "normal" until an effective vaccine has been found and mass produced. That could easily be at least a couple of years away
It could be never.
We have never found a vaccine for a human coronavirus, eg the common cold
We have never found a vaccine for SARs either but the WHO declared it contained in summer 2003
SARS only killed 774 people worldwide.
888 people died of Covid-19 just in the UK today.
More people have died of one of the strains of flu than have yet died of Covid 19, life goes on, the focus should be on containment until a vaccine can be found
Other strains of flu have been around for decades. The current death toll, massively under reported is in 5 months. Plus the problem is much more than just about numbers of deaths.
Yes but it does give some perspective.
Former plagues in this country like Spanish flu, the Great Plague of the 1660s or Black Death also had a far higher death rate than Covid 19 and we did not have the lockdown capacity or testing capacity then we have now nor the ability to find a vaccine
I don't think that we are as reconciled to mass death via the fickle finger of infectious disease as our great grandparents were.
Can you define mass death for me, perhaps put a number on it?
100,000 excess deaths in one season
World, Europe, UK, Shepherds Bush?
UK
Is anyone sensible putting anything like that number on the table at present?
Well, yes. The initial Imperial study which freaked Boris out of his torpor was 500,000 dead with herd immunity and 250,000 dead with mitigation (very mild lockdown)
So 100,000 is quite conservative. Indeed 100,000 is a bare minimum, over years, if we don’t get a vaccine or a treatment. This is the inexorable maths of pandemia.
It will probably infect 50% of the nation. It probably has a fatality rate of 1%+
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
I'm a Londoner and I can car share, drive in as far as I can get reasonable/ free parking and uber the rest.
Sad milestone for the US over the last few days since they use this as a measure. They have now lost more people in the last 2 months to CV-19 than they lost in the whole of the Vietnam War.
To be brutally honest.
71% of the deaths are people over 65, says worldometer.
Vietnam killed young kids.
Immaterial. Given I don't hold with the notion of an afterlife, I consider that someone of 70 - who might well otherwise live another 20 or 30 years - has just as much right to life as someone in their teens. This idea that a 70 year old has less value than a 20 year old is frankly obscene.
Be interested to see Government approval and whether there is any change.
Will Labour ever break through?
The answer is no
A really thoughtful and insightful analysis if you don't mind me saying.
Well CHB believes in what the labour party currently stands for and the 2019 manifesto. It has been explained on here countless times that this country is not ready to accept such a manifesto but people like CHB choose to find other scapegoats...it was the labour right wing infighting....it was Corbyn that was unpopular. Only so many times you can say people don't really want such a manifesto before it gets tiring.
Starmer has committed to keep to the Corbynite style manifesto therefore Labour remain a voting irrelevance for most of the country. I merely gave him the brief answer as it would be a waste of breath to say more
Starmer is not keeping a 'corbynite' agenda. The shadow cabinet appointments and Starmer's own sentiment is far from Corbyn left. We have lived in a decade of very poor opposition and some questionable centre right regimes have muddled through due to this. Maybe if it ever gets back to normal the alternate reality may play out with Starmer's sensible centre left being seen as a cosy alternative to the current crop.
Starmer was elected on the same mass nationalisation manifesto as proposed by Corbyn.
Yes but polls show most voters want to renationalise the railways and utilities, that was one of the few popular bits of the Labour manifesto
Sad milestone for the US over the last few days since they use this as a measure. They have now lost more people in the last 2 months to CV-19 than they lost in the whole of the Vietnam War.
To be brutally honest.
71% of the deaths are people over 65, says worldometer.
Vietnam killed young kids.
A strange comparison to draw
You also miss the fact that the losses in Vietnam were spread over years
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Electric cars, uber, WFH, lots will change not just in London I think
Sad milestone for the US over the last few days since they use this as a measure. They have now lost more people in the last 2 months to CV-19 than they lost in the whole of the Vietnam War.
To be brutally honest.
71% of the deaths are people over 65, says worldometer.
Vietnam killed young kids.
Immaterial. Given I don't hold with the notion of an afterlife, I consider that someone of 70 - who might well otherwise live another 20 or 30 years - has just as much right to life as someone in their teens. This idea that a 70 year old has less value than a 20 year old is frankly obscene.
Though half of the deaths are over 80, average life expectancy in the US is late 70s
Sad milestone for the US over the last few days since they use this as a measure. They have now lost more people in the last 2 months to CV-19 than they lost in the whole of the Vietnam War.
To be brutally honest.
71% of the deaths are people over 65, says worldometer.
Vietnam killed young kids.
Immaterial. Given I don't hold with the notion of an afterlife, I consider that someone of 70 - who might well otherwise live another 20 or 30 years - has just as much right to life as someone in their teens. This idea that a 70 year old has less value than a 20 year old is frankly obscene.
Though half of the deaths are over 80, average life expectancy in the US is late 70s
Its bullshit anyway. I just went and looked again and realised I had misread the numbers. Apologies. Teach me not to read charts at gone midnight. Hopefully that horrible milestone will not be reached after all.
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Commuting's history. Anyone who can work from home will be working from home for now on permanently, probably. Many people still in jobs that can't be done from home, of course, but the white collar workers training it in from the burbs? Over.
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Commuting's history. Anyone who can work from home will be working from home for now on permanently, probably. Many people still in jobs that can't be done from home, of course, but the white collar workers training it in from the burbs? Over.
Yep - if the thought of myself and my team are anything to go by
Sad milestone for the US over the last few days since they use this as a measure. They have now lost more people in the last 2 months to CV-19 than they lost in the whole of the Vietnam War.
Got a way to go before they hit Vietnamese casualties.
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Commuting's history. Anyone who can work from home will be working from home for now on permanently, probably. Many people still in jobs that can't be done from home, of course, but the white collar workers training it in from the burbs? Over.
Maybe for a day or two a week but not full time, I will certainly be commuting back via tube post lockdown even with facemask
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Electric cars, uber, WFH, lots will change not just in London I think
I mentioned, a while back, of the anger an environmental lawyer felt towards Elon Musk....
"How can we stop people driving and demanding roads, if there is nothing wrong with driving?" - it's not a 100% accurate quote, but close enough
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Commuting's history. Anyone who can work from home will be working from home for now on permanently, probably. Many people still in jobs that can't be done from home, of course, but the white collar workers training it in from the burbs? Over.
Maybe for a day or two a week but not full time, I will certainly be commuting back via tube post lockdown even with facemask
Why bother with a face mask when a hot broth will see the virus off.....
Sad milestone for the US over the last few days since they use this as a measure. They have now lost more people in the last 2 months to CV-19 than they lost in the whole of the Vietnam War.
To be brutally honest.
71% of the deaths are people over 65, says worldometer.
Vietnam killed young kids.
Immaterial. Given I don't hold with the notion of an afterlife, I consider that someone of 70 - who might well otherwise live another 20 or 30 years - has just as much right to life as someone in their teens. This idea that a 70 year old has less value than a 20 year old is frankly obscene.
Be interested to see Government approval and whether there is any change.
Will Labour ever break through?
The answer is no
A really thoughtful and insightful analysis if you don't mind me saying.
Well CHB believes in what the labour party currently stands for and the 2019 manifesto. It has been explained on here countless times that this country is not ready to accept such a manifesto but people like CHB choose to find other scapegoats...it was the labour right wing infighting....it was Corbyn that was unpopular. Only so many times you can say people don't really want such a manifesto before it gets tiring.
Starmer has committed to keep to the Corbynite style manifesto therefore Labour remain a voting irrelevance for most of the country. I merely gave him the brief answer as it would be a waste of breath to say more
Starmer is not keeping a 'corbynite' agenda. The shadow cabinet appointments and Starmer's own sentiment is far from Corbyn left. We have lived in a decade of very poor opposition and some questionable centre right regimes have muddled through due to this. Maybe if it ever gets back to normal the alternate reality may play out with Starmer's sensible centre left being seen as a cosy alternative to the current crop.
Starmer was elected on the same mass nationalisation manifesto as proposed by Corbyn.
Yes but polls show most voters want to renationalise the railways and utilities, that was one of the few popular bits of the Labour manifesto
Basically claims Boris ignored scientific advice, missed 5 Cobra meetings so he could attend a ball, have a holiday and sort out his divorce, and failed to take the crisis seriously in time to prepare.
"Last week, a senior adviser to Downing Street broke ranks and blamed the weeks of complacency on a failure of leadership in cabinet. In particular, the prime minister was singled out.
“There’s no way you’re at war if your PM isn’t there,” the adviser said. “And what you learn about Boris was he didn’t chair any meetings. He liked his country breaks. He didn’t work weekends. It was like working for an old-fashioned chief executive in a local authority 20 years ago. There was a real sense that he didn’t do urgent crisis planning. It was exactly like people feared he would be.”"
Sad milestone for the US over the last few days since they use this as a measure. They have now lost more people in the last 2 months to CV-19 than they lost in the whole of the Vietnam War.
To be brutally honest.
71% of the deaths are people over 65, says worldometer.
Vietnam killed young kids.
Immaterial. Given I don't hold with the notion of an afterlife, I consider that someone of 70 - who might well otherwise live another 20 or 30 years - has just as much right to life as someone in their teens. This idea that a 70 year old has less value than a 20 year old is frankly obscene.
My parents are eighty-ish. They have plenty years left in them yet. They’re doing whatever it takes to get through this.
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Electric cars, uber, WFH, lots will change not just in London I think
I mentioned, a while back, of the anger an environmental lawyer felt towards Elon Musk....
"How can we stop people driving and demanding roads, if there is nothing wrong with driving?" - it's not a 100% accurate quote, but close enough
You wouldn't want him spending your life savings - would you?
Gosh, it seems like so long ago when the media were screaming for a total lockdown (possibly including even cats).
Three and half weeks later, the screams are for an end to this suffering.
As I wrote at the time, the later the moment the lockdown is judged to be needed the better, because we wont be able to keep it up.
And the media will scream about the government killing people if the death rate ticks up when restrictions lifted
Absolutely - fucking hindsight hypocrites
The problem is the Mail headline.
If it had said: "Load of Tory grandees rail against lockdown" then it would be more accurate as a news story. Instead it appears to be an editorial imploring of an end to the lockdown.
Basically claims Boris ignored scientific advice, missed 5 Cobra meetings so he could attend a ball, have a holiday and sort out his divorce, and failed to take the crisis seriously in time to prepare.
"Last week, a senior adviser to Downing Street broke ranks and blamed the weeks of complacency on a failure of leadership in cabinet. In particular, the prime minister was singled out.
“There’s no way you’re at war if your PM isn’t there,” the adviser said. “And what you learn about Boris was he didn’t chair any meetings. He liked his country breaks. He didn’t work weekends. It was like working for an old-fashioned chief executive in a local authority 20 years ago. There was a real sense that he didn’t do urgent crisis planning. It was exactly like people feared he would be.”"
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Commuting's history. Anyone who can work from home will be working from home for now on permanently, probably. Many people still in jobs that can't be done from home, of course, but the white collar workers training it in from the burbs? Over.
Maybe for a day or two a week but not full time, I will certainly be commuting back via tube post lockdown even with facemask
Why bother with a face mask when a hot broth will see the virus off.....
If I get it it probably would, I am under 40 and have a tin of hot broth in the cupboard if needed
Sad milestone for the US over the last few days since they use this as a measure. They have now lost more people in the last 2 months to CV-19 than they lost in the whole of the Vietnam War.
To be brutally honest.
71% of the deaths are people over 65, says worldometer.
Vietnam killed young kids.
Immaterial. Given I don't hold with the notion of an afterlife, I consider that someone of 70 - who might well otherwise live another 20 or 30 years - has just as much right to life as someone in their teens. This idea that a 70 year old has less value than a 20 year old is frankly obscene.
Though half of the deaths are over 80, average life expectancy in the US is late 70s
Its bullshit anyway. I just went and looked again and realised I had misread the numbers. Apologies. Teach me not to read charts at gone midnight. Hopefully that horrible milestone will not be reached after all.
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Commuting's history. Anyone who can work from home will be working from home for now on permanently, probably. Many people still in jobs that can't be done from home, of course, but the white collar workers training it in from the burbs? Over.
Maybe for a day or two a week but not full time, I will certainly be commuting back via tube post lockdown even with facemask
Why bother with a face mask when a hot broth will see the virus off.....
If I get it it probably would, I am under 40 and have a tin of hot broth in the cupboard if needed
Must be a chore keeping that broth constantly hot.
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Electric cars, uber, WFH, lots will change not just in London I think
I mentioned, a while back, of the anger an environmental lawyer felt towards Elon Musk....
"How can we stop people driving and demanding roads, if there is nothing wrong with driving?" - it's not a 100% accurate quote, but close enough
You wouldn't want him spending your life savings - would you?
With Elon Musk, there would be a pretty good chance that he would turn my life savings into a stake in a multi-billion dollar company. As track records go, there's far worse.
I could write a whole book, I think, on the anger I see in the non-technical part of the upper 10,000. The anger they feel towards "Tech Bros" (and similar insults) - changing the world, without asking *their* permission first.
One article (must find it) was a beautifully angry piece against Musk's interest in tunnelling - The Boring Company/Hyperloop. How dare he poke his nose into mass transport, coming up with ideas that hadn't been *sociologically* validated?
Public to be told to wear masks on public transport.
I wonder if this will remain long after COVID-19 is immunised against.
As an aside, what this will do is kill the attempts to get more people to voluntarily use more public transport as an alternative to their cars in the foreseeable future. All the more so if everyone has to wear a visible sign of how dangerous it potentially is. I mean who in their right mind will use the option of public transport as opposed to their own vehicles where they are protected from the spread of a potentially fatal disease?
Not in London, where cars are not an option for most
That is why I said voluntarily as an alternative to cars. Of course there are millions for whom public transport is the only option. But successive Governments have been trying to get people to voluntarily use public transport instead of private cars for years - and with quite some success judging by the growth in rail passenger numbers.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
But you’re not a Londoner and for 90% of Londoners driving into work, parking, paying the charge, is simply not affordable. It’s fifty quid a day.
They will use the Tube and the bus, and masks if told.
And London is not the whole country. For all its importance it is still only 15% or so of the total population. Public transport will survive in London. It will struggle elsewhere and we will certainly see a reverse of the trends of the last few decades when it comes to growth in things like rail usage.
Electric cars, uber, WFH, lots will change not just in London I think
I mentioned, a while back, of the anger an environmental lawyer felt towards Elon Musk....
"How can we stop people driving and demanding roads, if there is nothing wrong with driving?" - it's not a 100% accurate quote, but close enough
You wouldn't want him spending your life savings - would you?
With Elon Musk, there would be a pretty good chance that he would turn my life savings into a stake in a multi-billion dollar company. As track records go, there's far worse.
I could write a whole book, I think, on the anger I see in the non-technical part of the upper 10,000. The anger they feel towards "Tech Bros" (and similar insults) - changing the world, without asking *their* permission first.
One article (must find it) was a beautifully angry piece against Musk's interest in tunnelling - The Boring Company/Hyperloop. How dare he poke his nose into mass transport, coming up with ideas that hadn't been *sociologically* validated?
Electric cars are good and cool. The Boring Company gameplan is dumb as shit.
I am confused .. on the one hand you have people complaining that the the lockdown didnt come quick enough and hhose same pepple are complaing they want an easi g of lockdown now full knowung that more will die uf we do. Clever these people...
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On the other hand, we could just plan for schools to restart in September when we are likely to have testing, tracking and tracing setup and so we don’t have to spread PPE even further, which seems a lot easier. Better than having it used as a ritual sacrifice to the gods of whatever for no measurable gain.
There’s something to be said for changing the start of the school year to January, that would be an interesting idea. There is no real reason why we couldn’t have what would have been the missed term starting in September and moving the start of the next year then. See? Simple to think of logical solutions rather than misplaced hyperbole.
Just had a nice long nightwalk. No ambulances this time, thankfully. God awful depressing day before that, though. Getting proper testing seems to be like trying to catch up to a rainbow; however far you walk, you never get any closer.
It will be the unemployment and the home and car repossessions that will do for the Tories not Covid-19.
But that is all fucked now. I would rather pay the congestion charge, car parking charges and all the additional costs of using my own car to go to London than use the train or any other form of public transport. There will be millions like me. It just isn't worth the risk.
If twitter was an accurate gauge of public opinion Corbyn would now be PM
We just don't know.
https://twitter.com/joebilsborough/status/1251615410748882944
Have I missed something?
Starmer was elected on the same mass nationalisation manifesto as proposed by Corbyn.
Gosh, it seems like so long ago when the media were screaming for a total lockdown (possibly including even cats).
Three and half weeks later, the screams are for an end to this suffering.
As I wrote at the time, the later the moment the lockdown is judged to be needed the better, because we wont be able to keep it up.
71% of the deaths are people over 65, says worldometer.
Vietnam killed young kids.
You also miss the fact that the losses in Vietnam were spread over years
It's another irregular verb -
I am completely objective.
You are partisan.
He is an idiot mouthpiece.
"How can we stop people driving and demanding roads, if there is nothing wrong with driving?" - it's not a 100% accurate quote, but close enough
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh
Basically claims Boris ignored scientific advice, missed 5 Cobra meetings so he could attend a ball, have a holiday and sort out his divorce, and failed to take the crisis seriously in time to prepare.
"Last week, a senior adviser to Downing Street broke ranks and blamed the weeks of complacency on a failure of leadership in cabinet. In particular, the prime minister was singled out.
“There’s no way you’re at war if your PM isn’t there,” the adviser said. “And what you learn about Boris was he didn’t chair any meetings. He liked his country breaks. He didn’t work weekends. It was like working for an old-fashioned chief executive in a local authority 20 years ago. There was a real sense that he didn’t do urgent crisis planning. It was exactly like people feared he would be.”"
If it had said: "Load of Tory grandees rail against lockdown" then it would be more accurate as a news story. Instead it appears to be an editorial imploring of an end to the lockdown.
The same person who wrote "End the Lockdown Now!" will write "Stop killing people", the next day.
Why not?
I could write a whole book, I think, on the anger I see in the non-technical part of the upper 10,000. The anger they feel towards "Tech Bros" (and similar insults) - changing the world, without asking *their* permission first.
One article (must find it) was a beautifully angry piece against Musk's interest in tunnelling - The Boring Company/Hyperloop. How dare he poke his nose into mass transport, coming up with ideas that hadn't been *sociologically* validated?