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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s time for the Wednesday PB Nighthawks cafe

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  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    There is a bit of an issue with the Wuhan wet market theory,

    "There is no conclusive evidence that this happened at Wuhan’s notorious “wet” markets where wild animals were sold for meat. Analysis of the first 41 Covid-19 patients in medical journal the Lancet found that 27 of them had direct exposure to the Wuhan market. But the same analysis found that the first known case did not."

    Now perhaps the Chinese lied about this or the other people did, but they didn't find that out that they had visited there / had run into people who had.

    What we do know is the first known case was hushed up by China officials, but was leaked and they weren't anything to do with the wet market.

    Insofar as we know.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    philiph said:

    I know something that is nearly as rare as flour and yeast. A decent exercise mat that doesn't cost £60 cos its some poncy yoga jobbie.

    I need a new one and bugger me if I can get one that isn't some either utter garbage or requires the user to wear lululemon yoga pants are a prerequisite to purchasing it.

    Nothing wrong with lululemon - good employers who seem to treat staff well.
    So they should be....I have seen how much Mrs U has spent on a pair of pants from there.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708

    There is a bit of an issue with the Wuhan wet market theory,

    There is no conclusive evidence that this happened at Wuhan’s notorious “wet” markets where wild animals were sold for meat. Analysis of the first 41 Covid-19 patients in medical journal the Lancet found that 27 of them had direct exposure to the Wuhan market. But the same analysis found that the first known case did not.

    Now perhaps the Chinese lied about this or the other people did, but they didn't find that out. What we do know is the first known case was hushed up by China officials, but was leaked and they weren't anything to do with the wet market.

    I think it's suspicious that the link to the wet market was publicised by China on day one, and also that they didn't go public until cases were showing up outside mainland China. If they wanted to cover up a lab accident, it would make sense for them to promote that narrative.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    philiph said:

    I know something that is nearly as rare as flour and yeast. A decent exercise mat that doesn't cost £60 cos its some poncy yoga jobbie.

    I need a new one and bugger me if I can get one that isn't some either utter garbage or requires the user to wear lululemon yoga pants are a prerequisite to purchasing it.

    Nothing wrong with lululemon - good employers who seem to treat staff well.
    So they should be....I have seen how much Mrs U has spent on a pair of pants from there.
    They're the overpriced Ron Hills ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    I would be surprised if the US and its allies don't have a decent amount of intel in regards to this outbreak. There must have been a hell of a lot of communications from a local level of "we have this weird new respiratory disease", to national level "oh shit 1000s of people are dying, quick lock the place down and send 100,000 of medical staff there".

    All of that doesn't happen without a huge amount of chatter.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    philiph said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    I’ve never bought flour, what do people use it for?

    Cutting cocaine for the retail market.
    Due to the scarcity the roles of the white powders may be reversed.
    Essential workers these days....

    Cocaine dealer wearing high-vis outfit tells police he is a 'key worker' after being pulled over during lockdown

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8213819/Cocaine-dealer-told-police-key-worker-huge-57-000-haul-car.html
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    philiph said:

    I know something that is nearly as rare as flour and yeast. A decent exercise mat that doesn't cost £60 cos its some poncy yoga jobbie.

    I need a new one and bugger me if I can get one that isn't some either utter garbage or requires the user to wear lululemon yoga pants are a prerequisite to purchasing it.

    Nothing wrong with lululemon - good employers who seem to treat staff well.
    So they should be....I have seen how much Mrs U has spent on a pair of pants from there.
    😁
    Delighted she is part funding my daughter. Encourage her to keep up the good work. Saves me a fortune :smiley:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Floater said:

    Andy_JS said:

    WOW!.

    Fox news saying multiple sources say the virus escaped from a lab in Wuhan via an intern who went to a wet market.

    Is anyone shocked by the allegation?
    Not particularly, no
    Do they have interns in China?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    edited April 2020
    RE: New Zealand. You always have the issue of the excellent hygiene you brought on arriving in New Zealand. All I ever wanted to do after landing in Auckland was pay for access to the showers at the terminal because you always felt like an absolute stinker after that long haul flight. I suspect plenty of others were the same.

    Re: the Wuhan wet market etc.

    The lab theory has been going from Day 1 but there are plenty of others, dogs eating contaminated wild animals then carrying the disease and so on.

    Bottom line right now is this. it doesn't matter at the moment what the starting point was. They Chinese authorities covered up and lied. They still are lying. The intercepts at least from November 2019, possibly earlier were there in the hands of US intelligence agencies suggesting something irregular was underway. A full month before the Chinese went on record.

    All the US has denied is that they had a distilled and 100% report and conclusions presented in November, not that the intelligence suggesting an issue wasn't in the take. Only two likely raw sources if if the intelligence was electronic and the US doesn't want to say too much about that.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    Andy_JS said:

    WOW!.

    Fox news saying multiple sources say the virus escaped from a lab in Wuhan via an intern who went to a wet market.

    Is anyone shocked by the allegation?
    Not particularly, no
    Do they have interns in China?
    Put it another way, I would not be surprised if this escaped from a Lab - similar things have happened in other countries
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited April 2020
    Friend of mine in ICU after having recovered from probable Covid-19, can't function without oxygen. He has diabetes and a high BMI if anyone wants the comorbidity factors. He will be fine but more proof Covid is a heck of a virus for some.
    Docs think his heart/lung system has been affected.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dodrade said:

    eek said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Skype = android
    Teams = iphone

    Both Msft products intended for different purposes

    Word = Android
    Excel = iPhone
    Nope Skype (the none business version) was a bought in consumer product.

    Skype for business was previously called Lync and was ok but never that great (it could however do conference calls if managed well).

    Teams can do both 1 to 1 calls and larger conference calls - it uses different technology (azure video) for the conference functionality.
    If Teams is superior why haven't Microsoft discontinued Skype yet?
    Because Skype is a consumer product in one part of Microsoft, while Teams is a business product that's part of the Office suite and meant to compete with Slack.
    The real question is does anyone still use Skype? I haven't come across it in any sense, consumer or business.
    What's the alternative to Skype?
    So many options. It depends on your setting. In the corporate world teams, hangouts/meet and zoom. In consumer land WhatsApp, duo, facetime, hangouts are all superior to Skype.
    I don't think the consumer-land comparison you're making is quite like-for-like here if someone (thinking of @AndyJS in particular) is looking for a Skype replacement, though clearly they're all competitors in a similar space. For example FaceTime is Apple-only - you do get some families where everyone uses Apple and they even give granny an iPhone or iPad for that reason, but you can't guarantee that none of your friends or relatives use Android or only have a Windows laptop.

    Duo is available on web, iOS and Android, and lets you do voice and video calls. But I don't think you can share files and photos, which is something I suspect a lot of people do with elderly relatives. Can you call a telephone line from Duo? Or do a text chat? I think in those respects it's missing features that a lot of people use Skype for.

    WhatsApp I wrote about below.

    Hangouts I would say is the closest in functionality. But as far as I can see, like Skype it's losing the race against the likes of FaceTime and the now-ubiquitous WhatsApp. Google doesn't seem to have much interest in Hangouts, I didn't like them getting rid of the rather fun picture-drawing tool a few years back! I wonder whether the fact Hangouts and Skype have so much functionality is one of the reasons they've slipped behind, and apps that focus on doing a few things well and have a clearer (albeit slimmer) purpose have prospered.

    Due to my dislike of Facebook I did try to get my family chat group to shift from WhatsApp to the more privacy-friendly Signal but nobody else had it installed on their phone!! >:-[ From memory you weren't a WhatsApp fan either @MaxPB? Did you ever persuade anyone to move away from it?
    Signal was cracked ages ago by the geeks at Cheltenham and Meade. They got some very useful stuff out of the Islamic extremists who used it, at one time, pretty extensively. Admittedly if you are a civilian they don't really have time to look at your stuff.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited April 2020
    Yokes said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dodrade said:

    eek said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Skype = android
    Teams = iphone

    Both Msft products intended for different purposes

    Word = Android
    Excel = iPhone
    Nope Skype (the none business version) was a bought in consumer product.

    Skype for business was previously called Lync and was ok but never that great (it could however do conference calls if managed well).

    Teams can do both 1 to 1 calls and larger conference calls - it uses different technology (azure video) for the conference functionality.
    If Teams is superior why haven't Microsoft discontinued Skype yet?
    Because Skype is a consumer product in one part of Microsoft, while Teams is a business product that's part of the Office suite and meant to compete with Slack.
    The real question is does anyone still use Skype? I haven't come across it in any sense, consumer or business.
    What's the alternative to Skype?
    So many options. It depends on your setting. In the corporate world teams, hangouts/meet and zoom. In consumer land WhatsApp, duo, facetime, hangouts are all superior to Skype.
    I don't think the consumer-land comparison you're making is quite like-for-like here if someone (thinking of @AndyJS in particular) is looking for a Skype replacement, though clearly they're all competitors in a similar space. For example FaceTime is Apple-only - you do get some families where everyone uses Apple and they even give granny an iPhone or iPad for that reason, but you can't guarantee that none of your friends or relatives use Android or only have a Windows laptop.

    Duo is available on web, iOS and Android, and lets you do voice and video calls. But I don't think you can share files and photos, which is something I suspect a lot of people do with elderly relatives. Can you call a telephone line from Duo? Or do a text chat? I think in those respects it's missing features that a lot of people use Skype for.

    WhatsApp I wrote about below.

    Hangouts I would say is the closest in functionality. But as far as I can see, like Skype it's losing the race against the likes of FaceTime and the now-ubiquitous WhatsApp. Google doesn't seem to have much interest in Hangouts, I didn't like them getting rid of the rather fun picture-drawing tool a few years back! I wonder whether the fact Hangouts and Skype have so much functionality is one of the reasons they've slipped behind, and apps that focus on doing a few things well and have a clearer (albeit slimmer) purpose have prospered.

    Due to my dislike of Facebook I did try to get my family chat group to shift from WhatsApp to the more privacy-friendly Signal but nobody else had it installed on their phone!! >:-[ From memory you weren't a WhatsApp fan either @MaxPB? Did you ever persuade anyone to move away from it?
    Signal was cracked ages ago by the geeks at Cheltenham and Meade. They got some very useful stuff out of the Islamic extremists who used it, at one time, pretty extensively. Admittedly if you are a civilian they don't really have time to look at your stuff.
    Yes I bet they got some interesting things by doing that! Wasn't it Snowden's favourite choice too? Certainly lots of the anti-government types seem to sing its praises. For myself, I'm less concerned what the intelligence agencies or law enforcement can do with respect to my personal but rather unexciting communications, more that I'm keen on sharing so much data with Facebook.

    On the other hand, this move makes less sense bearing in mind the potential eavesdroppers:

    https://politico.eu/news/eu-commission-to-staff-switch-to-signal-messaging-app
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    Is Trump really threatening to close Congress because it won't agree with him?
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Yokes said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dodrade said:

    eek said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Skype = android
    Teams = iphone

    Both Msft products intended for different purposes

    Word = Android
    Excel = iPhone
    Nope Skype (the none business version) was a bought in consumer product.

    Skype for business was previously called Lync and was ok but never that great (it could however do conference calls if managed well).

    Teams can do both 1 to 1 calls and larger conference calls - it uses different technology (azure video) for the conference functionality.
    If Teams is superior why haven't Microsoft discontinued Skype yet?
    Because Skype is a consumer product in one part of Microsoft, while Teams is a business product that's part of the Office suite and meant to compete with Slack.
    The real question is does anyone still use Skype? I haven't come across it in any sense, consumer or business.
    What's the alternative to Skype?
    So many options. It depends on your setting. In the corporate world teams, hangouts/meet and zoom. In consumer land WhatsApp, duo, facetime, hangouts are all superior to Skype.
    I don't think the consumer-land comparison you're making is quite like-for-like here if someone (thinking of @AndyJS in particular) is looking for a Skype replacement, though clearly they're all competitors in a similar space. For example FaceTime is Apple-only - you do get some families where everyone uses Apple and they even give granny an iPhone or iPad for that reason, but you can't guarantee that none of your friends or relatives use Android or only have a Windows laptop.

    Duo is available on web, iOS and Android, and lets you do voice and video calls. But I don't think you can share files and photos, which is something I suspect a lot of people do with elderly relatives. Can you call a telephone line from Duo? Or do a text chat? I think in those respects it's missing features that a lot of people use Skype for.

    WhatsApp I wrote about below.

    Hangouts I would say is the closest in functionality. But as far as I can see, like Skype it's losing the race against the likes of FaceTime and the now-ubiquitous WhatsApp. Google doesn't seem to have much interest in Hangouts, I didn't like them getting rid of the rather fun picture-drawing tool a few years back! I wonder whether the fact Hangouts and Skype have so much functionality is one of the reasons they've slipped behind, and apps that focus on doing a few things well and have a clearer (albeit slimmer) purpose have prospered.

    Due to my dislike of Facebook I did try to get my family chat group to shift from WhatsApp to the more privacy-friendly Signal but nobody else had it installed on their phone!! >:-[ From memory you weren't a WhatsApp fan either @MaxPB? Did you ever persuade anyone to move away from it?
    Signal was cracked ages ago by the geeks at Cheltenham and Meade. They got some very useful stuff out of the Islamic extremists who used it, at one time, pretty extensively. Admittedly if you are a civilian they don't really have time to look at your stuff.
    Yes I bet they got some interesting things by doing that! Wasn't it Snowden's favourite choice too? Certainly lots of the anti-government types seem to sing its praises. For myself, I'm less concerned what the intelligence agencies or law enforcement can do with respect to my personal but rather unexciting communications, more that I'm keen on sharing so much data with Facebook.

    On the other hand, this move makes less sense bearing in mind the potential eavesdroppers:

    https://politico.eu/news/eu-commission-to-staff-switch-to-signal-messaging-app
    Before I'm called out for Europhobia... nor does a UK government cabinet meeting via Zoom, of course...

    https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/uk-government-zoom-despite-mod/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If anyone wants proof that saving lives over the exercise of liberty is not always the priority of the government, consider this fact:

    They haven't banned smoking. Even though it kills about 78,000 people a year.

    https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/lifestyle/what-are-the-health-risks-of-smoking/

    Yes. If they can order us to stay indoors to save the NHS and people do so, I’d like to see smoking banned
    Can cigarette smoke or vapes carry the virus? Cigarette smoke doesn't obey the 2 metre rule...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    edited April 2020

    I would be surprised if the US and its allies don't have a decent amount of intel in regards to this outbreak. There must have been a hell of a lot of communications from a local level of "we have this weird new respiratory disease", to national level "oh shit 1000s of people are dying, quick lock the place down and send 100,000 of medical staff there".

    All of that doesn't happen without a huge amount of chatter.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8211291/U-S-government-gave-3-7million-grant-Wuhan-lab-experimented-coronavirus-source-bats.html

    "On Saturday, Anthony Bellotti, president of the US pressure group White Coat Waste, condemned his government for spending tax dollars in China, adding: 'Animals infected with viruses or otherwise sickened and abused in Chinese labs reportedly may be sold to wet markets for consumption once experiments are done.'"
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    Yokes said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dodrade said:

    eek said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Skype = android
    Teams = iphone

    Both Msft products intended for different purposes

    Word = Android
    Excel = iPhone
    Nope Skype (the none business version) was a bought in consumer product.

    Skype for business was previously called Lync and was ok but never that great (it could however do conference calls if managed well).

    Teams can do both 1 to 1 calls and larger conference calls - it uses different technology (azure video) for the conference functionality.
    If Teams is superior why haven't Microsoft discontinued Skype yet?
    Because Skype is a consumer product in one part of Microsoft, while Teams is a business product that's part of the Office suite and meant to compete with Slack.
    The real question is does anyone still use Skype? I haven't come across it in any sense, consumer or business.
    What's the alternative to Skype?
    So many options. It depends on your setting. In the corporate world teams, hangouts/meet and zoom. In consumer land WhatsApp, duo, facetime, hangouts are all superior to Skype.
    I don't think the consumer-land comparison you're making is quite like-for-like here if someone (thinking of @AndyJS in particular) is looking for a Skype replacement, though clearly they're all competitors in a similar space. For example FaceTime is Apple-only - you do get some families where everyone uses Apple and they even give granny an iPhone or iPad for that reason, but you can't guarantee that none of your friends or relatives use Android or only have a Windows laptop.

    Duo is available on web, iOS and Android, and lets you do voice and video calls. But I don't think you can share files and photos, which is something I suspect a lot of people do with elderly relatives. Can you call a telephone line from Duo? Or do a text chat? I think in those respects it's missing features that a lot of people use Skype for.

    WhatsApp I wrote about below.

    Hangouts I would say is the closest in functionality. But as far as I can see, like Skype it's losing the race against the likes of FaceTime and the now-ubiquitous WhatsApp. Google doesn't seem to have much interest in Hangouts, I didn't like them getting rid of the rather fun picture-drawing tool a few years back! I wonder whether the fact Hangouts and Skype have so much functionality is one of the reasons they've slipped behind, and apps that focus on doing a few things well and have a clearer (albeit slimmer) purpose have prospered.

    Due to my dislike of Facebook I did try to get my family chat group to shift from WhatsApp to the more privacy-friendly Signal but nobody else had it installed on their phone!! >:-[ From memory you weren't a WhatsApp fan either @MaxPB? Did you ever persuade anyone to move away from it?
    Signal was cracked ages ago by the geeks at Cheltenham and Meade. They got some very useful stuff out of the Islamic extremists who used it, at one time, pretty extensively. Admittedly if you are a civilian they don't really have time to look at your stuff.
    Yes I bet they got some interesting things by doing that! Wasn't it Snowden's favourite choice too? Certainly lots of the anti-government types seem to sing its praises. For myself, I'm less concerned what the intelligence agencies or law enforcement can do with respect to my personal but rather unexciting communications, more that I'm keen on sharing so much data with Facebook.

    On the other hand, this move makes less sense bearing in mind the potential eavesdroppers:

    https://politico.eu/news/eu-commission-to-staff-switch-to-signal-messaging-app
    Before I'm called out for Europhobia... nor does a UK government cabinet meeting via Zoom, of course...

    https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/uk-government-zoom-despite-mod/
    Don't get me wrong, Signal is in conventional terms a secure application and, I suspect, someone has to make a specific effort to target you as a user.

    I'd agree, Facebook is headed by right fucking case and its attitude to data is particularly pernicious.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dodrade said:

    eek said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Skype = android
    Teams = iphone

    Both Msft products intended for different purposes

    Word = Android
    Excel = iPhone
    Nope Skype (the none business version) was a bought in consumer product.

    Skype for business was previously called Lync and was ok but never that great (it could however do conference calls if managed well).

    Teams can do both 1 to 1 calls and larger conference calls - it uses different technology (azure video) for the conference functionality.
    If Teams is superior why haven't Microsoft discontinued Skype yet?
    Because Skype is a consumer product in one part of Microsoft, while Teams is a business product that's part of the Office suite and meant to compete with Slack.
    The real question is does anyone still use Skype? I haven't come across it in any sense, consumer or business.
    What's the alternative to Skype?
    So many options. It depends on your setting. In the corporate world teams, hangouts/meet and zoom. In consumer land WhatsApp, duo, facetime, hangouts are all superior to Skype.
    I don't think the consumer-land comparison you're making is quite like-for-like here if someone (thinking of @AndyJS in particular) is looking for a Skype replacement, though clearly they're all competitors in a similar space. For example FaceTime is Apple-only - you do get some families where everyone uses Apple and they even give granny an iPhone or iPad for that reason, but you can't guarantee that none of your friends or relatives use Android or only have a Windows laptop.

    Duo is available on web, iOS and Android, and lets you do voice and video calls. But I don't think you can share files and photos, which is something I suspect a lot of people do with elderly relatives. Can you call a telephone line from Duo? Or do a text chat? I think in those respects it's missing features that a lot of people use Skype for.

    WhatsApp I wrote about below.

    Hangouts I would say is the closest in functionality. But as far as I can see, like Skype it's losing the race against the likes of FaceTime and the now-ubiquitous WhatsApp. Google doesn't seem to have much interest in Hangouts, I didn't like them getting rid of the rather fun picture-drawing tool a few years back! I wonder whether the fact Hangouts and Skype have so much functionality is one of the reasons they've slipped behind, and apps that focus on doing a few things well and have a clearer (albeit slimmer) purpose have prospered.

    Due to my dislike of Facebook I did try to get my family chat group to shift from WhatsApp to the more privacy-friendly Signal but nobody else had it installed on their phone!! >:-[ From memory you weren't a WhatsApp fan either @MaxPB? Did you ever persuade anyone to move away from it?
    Signal was cracked ages ago by the geeks at Cheltenham and Meade. They got some very useful stuff out of the Islamic extremists who used it, at one time, pretty extensively. Admittedly if you are a civilian they don't really have time to look at your stuff.
    Yes I bet they got some interesting things by doing that! Wasn't it Snowden's favourite choice too? Certainly lots of the anti-government types seem to sing its praises. For myself, I'm less concerned what the intelligence agencies or law enforcement can do with respect to my personal but rather unexciting communications, more that I'm keen on sharing so much data with Facebook.

    On the other hand, this move makes less sense bearing in mind the potential eavesdroppers:

    https://politico.eu/news/eu-commission-to-staff-switch-to-signal-messaging-app
    Before I'm called out for Europhobia... nor does a UK government cabinet meeting via Zoom, of course...

    https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/uk-government-zoom-despite-mod/
    Don't get me wrong, Signal is in conventional terms a secure application and, I suspect, someone has to make a specific effort to target you as a user.

    I'd agree, Facebook is headed by right fucking case and its attitude to data is particularly pernicious.
    No problem, I think I interpreted your point correctly the first time ... all about the threat model!

    I wish I could unhook myself more thoroughly from the tentacles of Google but FB's use of data really gets my goat.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    This is the Fox News report:


    "There is increasing confidence that COVID-19 originated in a Wuhan laboratory not as a bioweapon, but as part of China's effort to demonstrate that its efforts to identify and combat viruses are equal to or greater than the capabilities of the United States, multiple sources who have been briefed on the details of early actions by China's government and seen relevant materials tell Fox News.

    This may be the "costliest government coverup of all time," one of the sources said.

    The sources believe the initial transmission of the virus was bat-to-human, and that "patient zero" worked at the laboratory, then went into the population in Wuhan."

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Andy_JS said:

    This is the Fox News report:


    "There is increasing confidence that COVID-19 originated in a Wuhan laboratory not as a bioweapon, but as part of China's effort to demonstrate that its efforts to identify and combat viruses are equal to or greater than the capabilities of the United States, multiple sources who have been briefed on the details of early actions by China's government and seen relevant materials tell Fox News.

    This may be the "costliest government coverup of all time," one of the sources said.

    The sources believe the initial transmission of the virus was bat-to-human, and that "patient zero" worked at the laboratory, then went into the population in Wuhan."

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

    "Sources"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    When we are considering honesty of China and medical data, worth looking at their reporting of organ transplants....

    Analysis of official deceased organ donation data casts doubt on the credibility of China’s organ transplant reform

    https://bmcmedethics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12910-019-0406-6
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    edited April 2020
    Of course the US funded research at Wuhan, and so they should. Its a public health issue so its natural that the US might put money in in the hope of better understanding the potential conditions that may emerge. Better to do that research in China where SARS and other novel Coronaviruses seem to originate than in the US.

    That the Chinese authorities withheld information is probable not possible and that the US managed to, I assume find out via comms intelligence, also probably tells you that the Chinese authorities did delay, mislead and outright bullshitted. If they'd been open, no mention of clandestine intelligence take would ever need to be mentioned.

    A BSL4 lab is as high as you can get on its measures and is used for dealing with the very contagious very dangerous and the unknown. So if this thing has any viability its a balls up at least or they were pissing about on more than animal health at Wuhan. If the story is true what makes me think that its cock up at this stage rather than conspiracy is the fact the location is too well known. Its the only well known BSL4 in China. There are others no doubt but they aren't on the published lists.

    It would also suggest that its likely that both the two electronic forms of intercept that I mentioned on here recently may have provided the raw take,
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    Andy_JS said:

    This is the Fox News report:


    "There is increasing confidence that COVID-19 originated in a Wuhan laboratory not as a bioweapon, but as part of China's effort to demonstrate that its efforts to identify and combat viruses are equal to or greater than the capabilities of the United States, multiple sources who have been briefed on the details of early actions by China's government and seen relevant materials tell Fox News.

    This may be the "costliest government coverup of all time," one of the sources said.

    The sources believe the initial transmission of the virus was bat-to-human, and that "patient zero" worked at the laboratory, then went into the population in Wuhan."

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

    "Sources"
    Un-named sources or not, it cant be ruled out, These guys were mixing virus samples in their research, its on open published record and it was also a facility where concerns had been raised that it was a bit lax in previous years.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    As a final note on the veracity of the frankenstein virus leaked from a lab idea.

    The US government runs a fairly well established pattern of trying to embarass or just overwhelm other governments into admitting culpability if it has 100% certainty of its position.

    Stage 1, is exactly what you see now. Unnamed officials start pushing to the media.

    Stage 2 that we haven't seen yet and may not see is that face front US officials or occasionally senior politicians, start to raise the story.

    Stage 3: Ministerial level member of the US administration makes statement

    If it stops at Stage 1, then likeliest possibilities are that the US govt either 1) isn't at a high enough level of confidence that the Chinese had a major bio safety failure but think its probable 2) politically they don't want to raise it 3) they don't want to reveal intelligence gathering methodologies or more detailed knowledge or 4) someone within the IC is getting the story out because the administration doesn't want to talk about it.

    Stage 1 can just carry on running as briefing after briefing trying to get someone somewhere to break cover but if it ever goes Stage 2, you can bet they are firm on the picture and are looking to extract an admission from China or use it as a stick.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    Per Worldometer yesterday was the worst day so far for daily deaths.

    This comes after 8 days when the number of deaths plateaued and even trended slightly downwards.
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