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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With six and a half months to go till WH2020 Trump is still in

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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited April 2020

    https://twitter.com/RibelleGS/status/1250089293084794880

    Getting Trump out of the Oval Office if he loses is going to push the US to the very brink.

    No it won't. If someone else is elected President by the Electoral College or House of Representatives, or no-one is elected at the office devolves to the Speaker of the House or President Pro Tem of the Senate, then at 12 noon, Eastern Standard Time, on January 20th 2021, that person will become President of the United States, and will assume the full powers of the office the moment they complete the Oath of Office (which can be administered by anyone). Trump's authority and powers lapse the moment his term in office ceases. No-one has to obey him after that, and no-one will obey him if he tries to stop his successor taking office.

    I don't think people outside the US truly understand the significance of the US Constitution to Americans. Sure, it gets bent this way or that at times, but it cannot be suspended, it cannot be dispensed with, and the rank and file officers of the United States, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Directors of the federal law enforcement authorities down to the newest minted PFC or Special Agent will obey it.

    If Trump loses the election, he is out of the Oval Office on January 20th, come what may, and if he refuses to leave, he will be physically removed.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,801
    TGOHF666 said:

    FF43 said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it. Otherwise intelligent people will actually believe that some handrubbing version of Edward longshanks really has asked a company with a contract to cover the whole of the UK to 'prioritise England hahahahahah', because of a supposed genuine antipathy to all Scottish people and conversely a genuine liking for English people that is just as quaintly unlikely. Plenty of callous, elitist politicians and civil servants exist in Westminster, but the idea that these people especially favour the incontinence pad wearers of Dudley over those of Dundee would be laughed at by anyone in England, but sadly not in Scotland. It runs that deep.

    Depends what the claim is. If it's that UK PPE suppliers are refusing to sell stuff to Scottish care homes because it is all being reserved to Public Health England for supply to English care homes, there are several website screenshots and recorded conversations showing such. If the claim is that the UK government ordered this stuff to be reserved to England, there is no evidence of that. PHE claim there is no discrimination but that statement appears not to match the evidence.
    Moaning faced woman at butchers complains that customer that got up earlier got the best steak...

    We all know you don't like Mrs Sturgeon, but she wasn't the one whgo was complaining - instead she was saying she'd need to find out the facts.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,986

    Reports today that bbc radio channels, including radio 4 today and 5 live, are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    I've moved to 6 Music. Although, to be fair, both 4 and 5live have gone out of their way to be more informative. It's just that the source material is relentlessly grim.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    rpjs said:

    https://twitter.com/RibelleGS/status/1250089293084794880

    Getting Trump out of the Oval Office if he loses is going to push the US to the very brink.

    No it won't. If someone else is elected President by the Electoral College or House of Representatives, or no-one is elected at the office devolves to the Speaker of the House or President Pro Tem of the Senate, then at 12 noon, Eastern Standard Time, on January 20th 2021, that person will become President of the United States, and will assume the full powers of the office the moment they complete the Oath of Office (which can be administered by anyone). Trump's authority and powers lapse the moment his term in office ceases. No-one has to obey him after that, and no-one will obey him if he tries to stop his successor taking office.

    I don't think people outside the US truly understand the significance of the US Constitution to Americans. Sure, it gets bent this way or that at times, but it cannot be suspended, it cannot be dispensed with, and the rank and file officers of the United States, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Directors of the federal law enforcement authorities down to the newest minted PFC or Special Agent will obey it.

    If Trump loses the election, he is out of the Oval Office on January 20th, come what may, and if he refuses to leave, he will be physically removed.
    Which gives him two months to sow absolute chaos.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rpjs said:

    https://twitter.com/RibelleGS/status/1250089293084794880

    Getting Trump out of the Oval Office if he loses is going to push the US to the very brink.

    No it won't. If someone else is elected President by the Electoral College or House of Representatives, or no-one is elected at the office devolves to the Speaker of the House or President Pro Tem of the Senate, then at 12 noon, Eastern Standard Time, on January 20th 2021, that person will become President of the United States, and will assume the full powers of the office the moment they complete the Oath of Office (which can be administered by anyone). Trump's authority and powers lapse the moment his term in office ceases. No-one has to obey him after that, and no-one will obey him if he tries to stop his successor taking office.

    I don't think people outside the US truly understand the significance of the US Constitution to Americans. Sure, it gets bent this way or that at times, but it cannot be suspended, it cannot be dispensed with, and the rank and file officers of the United States, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Directors of the federal law enforcement authorities down to the newest minted PFC or Special Agent will obey it.

    If Trump loses the election, he is out of the Oval Office on January 20th, come what may, and if he refuses to leave, he will be physically removed.
    Which gives him two months to sow absolute chaos.
    True, but there are limits to what he can do without the consent of Congress.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Reports today that bbc radio channels, including radio 4 today and 5 live, are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    Totally unsurprising. I'm a devotee of the daily briefing show but otherwise do my best to avoid the news. There's only so much of it that people can stand.

    BTW, it's also one more reason to suppose that the lockdown has a strictly finite shelf-life. The public will become inured to the daily death statistics soon enough; once 800 or 1,000 a day is the accepted norm, they'll tune out and cease to notice if not directly affected themselves.

    But they will continue noticing that they're under virtual house arrest, and that they can't see their friends and relatives, and can't do many of the things they enjoy, and - in many cases - that they're out of work and really struggling financially.

    The Government can get away with extending the current arrangements now, but when we get to the end of April/early May they're going to need to provide a road map to something at least vaguely resembling normality.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873

    Traitor McNichol +30 seats
    Loyal Formby -60 seats

    Yup. You can see how results improved after the traitors were removed and loyalists put in.
    McNichol like you! wanted Corbyn to lose in 2017.
    Why did he do such a bloody bad job of it, then? :wink:

    TBH I am more annoyed that AS wasnt dealt with more effectively during McTories time
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Reports today that bbc radio channels, including radio 4 today and 5 live, are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    It's not just the wall-to-wall whingeing, (although that is bad enough) it's the sheer inanity and repetitiveness of the BBC coverage. To cap it all, you don't actually get much news.
    Yup - the most up to date news on the virus is on the net.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    About Sweden...

    In an open letter, a group of 22 doctors, virologists and researchers from Sweden’s top hospitals, universities and research institutes pointed write:

    One would like to imagine that Sweden has also had a forward-looking strategy, especially as our country has always had a different way of dealing with the spread of infection than the rest of the world. One would like to imagine that our authorities have prepared well since the epidemic broke out in China, and especially since it was clear that the problem was likely to be global.

    … If there was a well-thought-out, well-functioning strategy for Swedish infection prevention work with Covid-19, Sweden would hardly have the same death toll as Italy today, and 10 times higher than Finland’s. If there had been a well-developed, well-functioning strategy, half of Stockholm’s elderly residents would not have been affected by the epidemic - and in some cases over 20% of the healthcare staff would be antibody positive.

    … The approach must be changed radically and quickly. As the disease-free virus spreads, it is necessary to increase social distance. Close schools and restaurants in the same way you do in Finland. Everyone who works with the elderly must wear adequate protective equipment. Prior to mass testing of infectiousness on all caring staff and testing for antibodies to sars-covid-2 so that established immune personnel can return to work. Require quarantine by the whole family if a member is ill or tests positive for viruses. Impress in society that anyone can be contagious.
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Chancellor says SNP moaning has "no truth - on the contrary close collaboration"

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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,726
    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    Agreed that Trump is not beaten, and that the Dems do not have the best candidate to beat him. But Trump's approval should be markedly better currently given he is the incumbent mid-crisis. That he has received almost no crisis bounce in his approvals bodes really badly for him

    And it's bugging him something terrible. He's really chasing it now. I predict implosion.
    His ego won`t allow exposing himself to defeat. He can`t bear losing. This is why, as I`ve said before, that if internal pollsters tell him he is unlikely to win, he will withdraw, loudly and petulantly, rather than run and be defeated. Even at this late stage I don`t think it`s a cert that he`ll run.
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790

    Socky said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it.

    Though there has been appropriate criticism of Labour's recent racism problems, anti-English racism has rather got a pass from the media.
    Thank goodness anti Scottish racism has been shown up to be the fantasy that it is.
    I have never encountered anti-Scottish racism anywhere in England, except perhaps a bit of borderline national stereotyping about parsimony and yet you only have to get in a taxi from the airport in Glasgow to the centre to hear anti-English racism on regular occasion. It normally starts with " I am not anti-English but...." and then a tedious prejudiced rant about "the English" as though we are some homogenous group of Jacob Rees Moggs. I spent two years travelling to Scotland once a week, and while I met some of the nicest friendliest people in the world, they were also interspersed with a significant minority who were some of the worst bigots I have ever encountered. I suspect most of the latter vote SNP.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    .

    eristdoof said:

    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
    Bligh is quite an interesting role model for Trump.

    I think the current historical appraisal is that Bligh was not the appalling bastard that he was painted as being in the earlier accounts. What he was is hot-tempered and incredibly inconsistent. So he'd turn a blind eye to his crew sleeping around with natives, but then fly into a rage when they picked up STDs. It isn't that he was very strict, just that it was never clear where the line was and how near crew members were to crossing it.

    Similarly with Trump. Some attack him for extremism, but his bigger trait is capriciousness. Opponents, colleagues, other world leaders - nobody can reliably predict him one day, and sometimes one moment, to the next. Sometimes he's very accommodating, sometimes he's absolutely intransigent. Sometimes he appears genuinely warm, sometimes publicly hostile. And so on. Now whether that's a feature or a bug is a matter for debate - I think the latter, but can see how it might work in some situations.
    There is a massive difference.
    Bligh, though a deeply flawed leader, was an exceptionally good sailor.
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    rpjs said:

    https://twitter.com/RibelleGS/status/1250089293084794880

    Getting Trump out of the Oval Office if he loses is going to push the US to the very brink.

    No it won't. If someone else is elected President by the Electoral College or House of Representatives, then at 12 noon, Eastern Standard Time, on January 20th 2021, that person will become President of the United States, and will assume the full powers of the office the moment they complete the Oath of Office (which can be administered by anyone). Trump's authority and powers lapse the moment his term in office ceases. No-one has to obey him after that, and no-one will obey him if he tries to stop his successor taking office.

    I don't think people outside the US truly understand the significance of the US Constitution to Americans. Sure, it gets bent this way or that at times, but it cannot be suspended, it cannot be dispensed with, and the rank and file officers of the United States, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Directors of the federal law enforcement authorities down to the newest minted PFC or Special Agent will obey it.

    If Trump loses the election, he is out of the Oval Office on January 20th, come what may, and if he refuses to leave, he will be physically removed.
    I basically agree with you. Pretty sure he'd grumble then fade away.

    But it isn't ONLY about physically removing him from the premises. I don't think he would, but he could just conceivably say, "This election has no legitimacy due to fake news and the deep state stealing it from me and YOU. You have a duty to resist, certainly by not paying your taxes but also, if necessary, by force".

    That would be total fantasy for most previous Presidents. For Trump? Still not at all likely, but a bit less fantastical.

    Even then, most people (including Republicans) would tell him to do one. But there are not insignificant numbers of people who could be very awkward indeed.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,931
    .

    eristdoof said:

    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
    Bligh is quite an interesting role model for Trump.

    I think the current historical appraisal is that Bligh was not the appalling bastard that he was painted as being in the earlier accounts. What he was is hot-tempered and incredibly inconsistent. So he'd turn a blind eye to his crew sleeping around with natives, but then fly into a rage when they picked up STDs. It isn't that he was very strict, just that it was never clear where the line was and how near crew members were to crossing it.

    Similarly with Trump. Some attack him for extremism, but his bigger trait is capriciousness. Opponents, colleagues, other world leaders - nobody can reliably predict him one day, and sometimes one moment, to the next. Sometimes he's very accommodating, sometimes he's absolutely intransigent. Sometimes he appears genuinely warm, sometimes publicly hostile. And so on. Now whether that's a feature or a bug is a matter for debate - I think the latter, but can see how it might work in some situations.
    You are probably better informed than me, watching the films, (and reading Mel Gibson!) it seems to me that Fletcher Christian was romanticised as a swashbuckling libertarian, whilst Bligh cast as the miserable disciplinarian. Modernity dictates that Christian is the hero and Bligh the villain, but I don’t think that’s the case.

    You’d probably rather Bligh captain your ship, it was quite incredible that he got those thrown off the Bounty ashore safe
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Reports today that bbc radio channels, including radio 4 today and 5 live, are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    It's not just the wall-to-wall whingeing, (although that is bad enough) it's the sheer inanity and repetitiveness of the BBC coverage. To cap it all, you don't actually get much news.
    All that airtime to fill and i am more informed about what is going on from watching 20 mins worth of youtube channels every day.
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    isam said:

    isam said:

    One of my favourites too. Bligh was the good guy as it turned out.
    Yes, but not in the movie versions......
    At the end of the Trevor Howard and Anthony Hopkins ones he is exonerated isn't he? Def Hopkins, Howard is cleared but reprimanded I think, they say they should have chosen a gentleman
    It is difficult to think of appropriate language to describe the absurdity of Trump. He just keeps on reminding us of his crass stupidity!
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. 86, I stopped watching the news regularly some months ago. I miss it surprisingly little.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    DavidL said:

    Rishi is just a class act. So articulate.

    He has a very human way of communicating.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited April 2020
    Obama's video endorsement of Biden is out

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-s3ANu4eMs
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    DavidL said:

    Rishi is just a class act. So articulate.

    The virus may have effectively "elected" two next leaders: Cuomo and Rishi.
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    eristdoof said:

    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
    Bligh is quite an interesting role model for Trump.

    I think the current historical appraisal is that Bligh was not the appalling bastard that he was painted as being in the earlier accounts. What he was is hot-tempered and incredibly inconsistent. So he'd turn a blind eye to his crew sleeping around with natives, but then fly into a rage when they picked up STDs. It isn't that he was very strict, just that it was never clear where the line was and how near crew members were to crossing it.

    Similarly with Trump. Some attack him for extremism, but his bigger trait is capriciousness. Opponents, colleagues, other world leaders - nobody can reliably predict him one day, and sometimes one moment, to the next. Sometimes he's very accommodating, sometimes he's absolutely intransigent. Sometimes he appears genuinely warm, sometimes publicly hostile. And so on. Now whether that's a feature or a bug is a matter for debate - I think the latter, but can see how it might work in some situations.
    In negotiation theory it is called the mad monk strategy - be unpredictable so that others give you more leeway as they cannot predict where the red lines are.

    Like you, I think this, and his OODA loop approach to politics is a bug, rather than a feature, but a bug that has served him well (at least in his own mind) throughout his career, so one that he has no reason to question, let alone fix.
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    Nigelb said:

    .

    eristdoof said:

    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
    Bligh is quite an interesting role model for Trump.

    I think the current historical appraisal is that Bligh was not the appalling bastard that he was painted as being in the earlier accounts. What he was is hot-tempered and incredibly inconsistent. So he'd turn a blind eye to his crew sleeping around with natives, but then fly into a rage when they picked up STDs. It isn't that he was very strict, just that it was never clear where the line was and how near crew members were to crossing it.

    Similarly with Trump. Some attack him for extremism, but his bigger trait is capriciousness. Opponents, colleagues, other world leaders - nobody can reliably predict him one day, and sometimes one moment, to the next. Sometimes he's very accommodating, sometimes he's absolutely intransigent. Sometimes he appears genuinely warm, sometimes publicly hostile. And so on. Now whether that's a feature or a bug is a matter for debate - I think the latter, but can see how it might work in some situations.
    There is a massive difference.
    Bligh, though a deeply flawed leader, was an exceptionally good sailor.
    Woah there. Donald Trump personally won the 1987 America's Cup for the US of A. I have that on very good authority. The best authority. Really fantastic authority.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    DavidL said:

    Rishi is just a class act. So articulate.

    He has a very human way of communicating.
    Indeed. He manages not to sound patronising which must be a challenge given the inane questions.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,931
    Nigelb said:

    .

    eristdoof said:

    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
    Bligh is quite an interesting role model for Trump.

    I think the current historical appraisal is that Bligh was not the appalling bastard that he was painted as being in the earlier accounts. What he was is hot-tempered and incredibly inconsistent. So he'd turn a blind eye to his crew sleeping around with natives, but then fly into a rage when they picked up STDs. It isn't that he was very strict, just that it was never clear where the line was and how near crew members were to crossing it.

    Similarly with Trump. Some attack him for extremism, but his bigger trait is capriciousness. Opponents, colleagues, other world leaders - nobody can reliably predict him one day, and sometimes one moment, to the next. Sometimes he's very accommodating, sometimes he's absolutely intransigent. Sometimes he appears genuinely warm, sometimes publicly hostile. And so on. Now whether that's a feature or a bug is a matter for debate - I think the latter, but can see how it might work in some situations.
    There is a massive difference.
    Bligh, though a deeply flawed leader, was an exceptionally good sailor.
    Yes, he seems the opposite of Trump to me.
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    Tell George..

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1250008872116502529?s=20
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    https://twitter.com/RibelleGS/status/1250089293084794880

    Getting Trump out of the Oval Office if he loses is going to push the US to the very brink.

    No, it won't.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    The UK's mobile networks have reported a further 20 cases of phone masts being targeted in suspected arson attacks over the Easter weekend.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    DavidL said:

    Rishi is just a class act. So articulate.

    Sunak is the only one in cabinet that I rate at all and he got his job by accident. This is no coincidence.
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    DensparkDenspark Posts: 68
    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    is anyone saying they've lifted the lockdown? All the news reports ive seen use words like "easing" and mentioned that its only construction workers and some factory workers can return to work.
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    isam said:

    .

    eristdoof said:

    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
    Bligh is quite an interesting role model for Trump.

    I think the current historical appraisal is that Bligh was not the appalling bastard that he was painted as being in the earlier accounts. What he was is hot-tempered and incredibly inconsistent. So he'd turn a blind eye to his crew sleeping around with natives, but then fly into a rage when they picked up STDs. It isn't that he was very strict, just that it was never clear where the line was and how near crew members were to crossing it.

    Similarly with Trump. Some attack him for extremism, but his bigger trait is capriciousness. Opponents, colleagues, other world leaders - nobody can reliably predict him one day, and sometimes one moment, to the next. Sometimes he's very accommodating, sometimes he's absolutely intransigent. Sometimes he appears genuinely warm, sometimes publicly hostile. And so on. Now whether that's a feature or a bug is a matter for debate - I think the latter, but can see how it might work in some situations.
    You are probably better informed than me, watching the films, (and reading Mel Gibson!) it seems to me that Fletcher Christian was romanticised as a swashbuckling libertarian, whilst Bligh cast as the miserable disciplinarian. Modernity dictates that Christian is the hero and Bligh the villain, but I don’t think that’s the case.

    You’d probably rather Bligh captain your ship, it was quite incredible that he got those thrown off the Bounty ashore safe
    Bligh has been described as one of the finest navigators the Royal Navy ever produced and that is saying something. I suspect there are very few similarities with Trump, as Trump is a narcissist, and definitely not a careful navigator . I just hope that the American people have the sense to throw Trump overboard, and I hope the analogy ends there.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Urquhart, not to worry. It's not like people need the internet to order food.

    Some people are fucking idiots.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    eristdoof said:

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    So do you think it is just a coincidence that there are news stories doing the rounds about high proportions of care-home deaths over the weekend/last week is happening at the same time as a pandemic outbreak which is particulalty fatal for elderly people? I suppose it could be "just flu"
    No its not a coincidence, of course care homes are being hit and hit hard. They should have had more resources pre-virus and suffered from being behind the rest of the health service in terms of the initial govt (and press for that matter) response.

    I just prefer people being careful and clear when quoting numbers. Given most tests are to people with symptoms and most turn out negative, it is pretty likely that most of the suspected covid 19 deaths were not covid 19 related. With not much testing in care homes its possible the real numbers from that 521 sample are half what the tweet says.

    And for balance I pointed out that wasnt the whole picture, that on the opposite side, there were other deaths that are covid 19 related that were neither confirmed nor suspected.

    I dont know the point of the just flu comment.
    No, no, no. Most symptoms of Covid 19 are also symptoms of other things like colds and hay fever. One symptom- that of dying- is highly diagnostic of Covid19 as against most of those alternatives. So It is fallacious nonsense to say "Given most tests are to people with symptoms and most turn out negative, it is pretty likely that most of the suspected covid 19 deaths were not covid 19 related."
    Median life expectancy in a nursing home is about 5 months, for them colds can and do kill as well.
    Its over 2 years: numerous sources including

    https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2017-09-05/8937

    Even if it weren't it would be irrelevant. COVID 19 is more deadly than the common cold.
    I have been visiting my father at two different care homes over the last three years, and I've yet to hear of five residents on one floor die over the weekend, as I did yesterday.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    Tell George..

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1250008872116502529?s=20
    The media screamed lock us up, now scream let us out.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    Tim_B said:

    Obama's video endorsement of Biden is out

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-s3ANu4eMs

    NYT:

    "Behind the scenes, [Obama] has been involved for some time and played a key role in persuading Mr. Sanders to end his campaign and endorse Mr. Biden."
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    Tell George..

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1250008872116502529?s=20
    The media screamed lock us up, now scream let us out.
    Bloody ridiculous. Was Osborne calling for a lockdown in the first place?
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    Tell George..

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1250008872116502529?s=20
    The media screamed lock us up, now scream let us out.
    Spanish door looks wide open there.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    Reports today that bbc radio channels, including radio 4 today and 5 live, are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    It's not just the wall-to-wall whingeing, (although that is bad enough) it's the sheer inanity and repetitiveness of the BBC coverage. To cap it all, you don't actually get much news.
    My lockdown buddy is fed up of the repetitiveness despite not trusting government data in the slightest and therefore theoretically welcoming questioning of it. I think that the same questions are asked so often despite anwsers may be part of that.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,711

    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    Tell George..

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1250008872116502529?s=20
    The media screamed lock us up, now scream let us out.
    The government does something
    The media scream do something else!!!!
    The government does something else
    The media scream do something!!!!!
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,130
    edited April 2020

    Socky said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it.

    Though there has been appropriate criticism of Labour's recent racism problems, anti-English racism has rather got a pass from the media.
    Thank goodness anti Scottish racism has been shown up to be the fantasy that it is.
    I have never encountered anti-Scottish racism anywhere in England, except perhaps a bit of borderline national stereotyping about parsimony and yet you only have to get in a taxi from the airport in Glasgow to the centre to hear anti-English racism on regular occasion. It normally starts with " I am not anti-English but...." and then a tedious prejudiced rant about "the English" as though we are some homogenous group of Jacob Rees Moggs. I spent two years travelling to Scotland once a week, and while I met some of the nicest friendliest people in the world, they were also interspersed with a significant minority who were some of the worst bigots I have ever encountered. I suspect most of the latter vote SNP.
    Definitely happened.

    I'm reminded of those outraged folk who say that some bloke in a pub called them an 'English cnut' under the mistaken impression that only one of those descriptors was accurate.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    eristdoof said:

    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
    Bligh is quite an interesting role model for Trump.

    I think the current historical appraisal is that Bligh was not the appalling bastard that he was painted as being in the earlier accounts. What he was is hot-tempered and incredibly inconsistent. So he'd turn a blind eye to his crew sleeping around with natives, but then fly into a rage when they picked up STDs. It isn't that he was very strict, just that it was never clear where the line was and how near crew members were to crossing it.

    Similarly with Trump. Some attack him for extremism, but his bigger trait is capriciousness. Opponents, colleagues, other world leaders - nobody can reliably predict him one day, and sometimes one moment, to the next. Sometimes he's very accommodating, sometimes he's absolutely intransigent. Sometimes he appears genuinely warm, sometimes publicly hostile. And so on. Now whether that's a feature or a bug is a matter for debate - I think the latter, but can see how it might work in some situations.
    There is a massive difference.
    Bligh, though a deeply flawed leader, was an exceptionally good sailor.
    Yes, he seems the opposite of Trump to me.
    I had no idea Trump was a deeply flawed sailor, or (WTF) an exceptionally good leader!! Can I have what you are smoking please?
  • Options
    Can we ban journos from these press conferences with shit broadband speeds?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    Tell George..

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1250008872116502529?s=20
    The media want gotcha headlines - news simply does not come into it.
  • Options
    The media have been out of step with the public over this all along

    The recent poll showing a big drop in trust of the media together with the report today of listeners drifting away from BBC radio to classical music is evidence to support this poll

    When this is over the media will be the biggest failure
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790

    The UK's mobile networks have reported a further 20 cases of phone masts being targeted in suspected arson attacks over the Easter weekend.

    The self styled son of God has had a busy weekend
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    To be absolutely fair, from what little I've caught of the news today I was under the impression that the Spanish lockdown had scarcely been eased. Almost the same as before, only with workers in a limited number of sectors (mainly construction and manufacturing) allowed back to work.

    Incidentally, I know some will disagree because they think our Government should've gone in even harder on the lockdown, but I'm very happy that we've managed to get this far without calling the Army in to carry out enforcement. It's clear that some people are taking the piss, but the restrictions currently in force still attract very broad public support (the transport usage figures for yesterday looked from the graph like they had reached record lows,) and all without the waving of firearms.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Can we ban journos from these press conferences with shit broadband speeds?

    He was silenced by MI5.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442

    The media have been out of step with the public over this all along

    The recent poll showing a big drop in trust of the media together with the report today of listeners drifting away from BBC radio to classical music is evidence to support this poll

    When this is over the media will be the biggest failure
    If you look at that poll sideways, the public are giving someone the finger....
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Socky said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it.

    Though there has been appropriate criticism of Labour's recent racism problems, anti-English racism has rather got a pass from the media.
    Thank goodness anti Scottish racism has been shown up to be the fantasy that it is.
    I have never encountered anti-Scottish racism anywhere in England
    Good for you.

    I have.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
  • Options

    isam said:

    .

    eristdoof said:

    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
    Bligh is quite an interesting role model for Trump.

    I think the current historical appraisal is that Bligh was not the appalling bastard that he was painted as being in the earlier accounts. What he was is hot-tempered and incredibly inconsistent. So he'd turn a blind eye to his crew sleeping around with natives, but then fly into a rage when they picked up STDs. It isn't that he was very strict, just that it was never clear where the line was and how near crew members were to crossing it.

    Similarly with Trump. Some attack him for extremism, but his bigger trait is capriciousness. Opponents, colleagues, other world leaders - nobody can reliably predict him one day, and sometimes one moment, to the next. Sometimes he's very accommodating, sometimes he's absolutely intransigent. Sometimes he appears genuinely warm, sometimes publicly hostile. And so on. Now whether that's a feature or a bug is a matter for debate - I think the latter, but can see how it might work in some situations.
    You are probably better informed than me, watching the films, (and reading Mel Gibson!) it seems to me that Fletcher Christian was romanticised as a swashbuckling libertarian, whilst Bligh cast as the miserable disciplinarian. Modernity dictates that Christian is the hero and Bligh the villain, but I don’t think that’s the case.

    You’d probably rather Bligh captain your ship, it was quite incredible that he got those thrown off the Bounty ashore safe
    Bligh has been described as one of the finest navigators the Royal Navy ever produced and that is saying something. I suspect there are very few similarities with Trump, as Trump is a narcissist, and definitely not a careful navigator . I just hope that the American people have the sense to throw Trump overboard, and I hope the analogy ends there.
    The criticism of Bligh isn't that he was a poor navigator but that he demanded, but was poor at commanding, the loyalty of his crew.

    I agree Trump isn't a good navigator (if you mean charting a safe course for his country, avoiding storms and rocks, and heading to the right destination).

    But the loyalty and discipline point is recognisable, isn't it? He's incredibly insistent on loyalty that he does little or nothing to earn. He has lost a lot of his crew, and many that remain don't know whether they have support from one day to the next.
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    edited April 2020
    Alistair said:

    Socky said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it.

    Though there has been appropriate criticism of Labour's recent racism problems, anti-English racism has rather got a pass from the media.
    Thank goodness anti Scottish racism has been shown up to be the fantasy that it is.
    I have never encountered anti-Scottish racism anywhere in England
    Good for you.

    I have.
    You shouldn't try and spend those funny notes in a pub then..
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,711
    The Imperial Public Health Professor attacking politicians not scientists for politicians following scientific advice is......well, you know the rest:

    https://order-order.com/2020/04/14/top-scientist-attacking-government-passionate-corbynista/
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,220

    Can we ban journos from these press conferences with shit broadband speeds?

    I thought it was a question from Norman Collier.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    The Times are reporting it. Does that make them the source?
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,359
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    Rishi is just a class act. So articulate.

    Sunak is the only one in cabinet that I rate at all and he got his job by accident. This is no coincidence.
    Raab has done well imho
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    Tell George..

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1250008872116502529?s=20
    The media screamed lock us up, now scream let us out.
    The government does something
    The media scream do something else!!!!
    The government does something else
    The media scream do something!!!!!
    If that's the best defence against criticisms of the government's management of the pandemic response you can come up with, you're as bad as you say the media is.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:

    Reports today that bbc radio channels, including radio 4 today and 5 live, are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    It's not just the wall-to-wall whingeing, (although that is bad enough) it's the sheer inanity and repetitiveness of the BBC coverage. To cap it all, you don't actually get much news.
    My lockdown buddy is fed up of the repetitiveness despite not trusting government data in the slightest and therefore theoretically welcoming questioning of it. I think that the same questions are asked so often despite answers may be part of that.
    True. The questions about care home figures will be asked over and over every day unless or until the up-to-date statistics are updated (at some inconvenience both to local government and the care home providers themselves) to include them.

    At which point, the hacks will point to the sudden mammoth jump in the death totals and scream about why it is we are doing so much worse than the comparable figures from other countries.

    Except that most of those figures don't include deaths in care homes.

    And we will then have questions about why the mortality figures for the UK are apparently worse than everywhere else in Europe, day after day after day after day after day after day...

    Crackling and skipping and screeching and choking like a broken f***ing record.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,315
    edited April 2020

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    Rishi is just a class act. So articulate.

    Sunak is the only one in cabinet that I rate at all and he got his job by accident. This is no coincidence.
    Raab has done well imho
    Raab, Rushi and Hancock have done well but Patel is a disaster
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790

    Socky said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it.

    Though there has been appropriate criticism of Labour's recent racism problems, anti-English racism has rather got a pass from the media.
    Thank goodness anti Scottish racism has been shown up to be the fantasy that it is.
    I have never encountered anti-Scottish racism anywhere in England, except perhaps a bit of borderline national stereotyping about parsimony and yet you only have to get in a taxi from the airport in Glasgow to the centre to hear anti-English racism on regular occasion. It normally starts with " I am not anti-English but...." and then a tedious prejudiced rant about "the English" as though we are some homogenous group of Jacob Rees Moggs. I spent two years travelling to Scotland once a week, and while I met some of the nicest friendliest people in the world, they were also interspersed with a significant minority who were some of the worst bigots I have ever encountered. I suspect most of the latter vote SNP.
    Definitely happened.

    I'm reminded of those outraged folk who say that some bloke in a pub called them an 'English cnut' under the mistaken impression that only one of those descriptors was accurate.
    It happened numerous times . Shows your deep prejudice and chauvinistic bias to claim it couldn't. The party you support feeds off prejudice and hatred, whilst at the same time pretending to be "progressive". There is nothing more backward than nationalism. That article feeds the scummy narrative that the SNP needs to lie about to keep itself fed. What a sad bunch to take advantage of a pandemic in such a way.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,220

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    Rishi is just a class act. So articulate.

    Sunak is the only one in cabinet that I rate at all and he got his job by accident. This is no coincidence.
    Raab has done well imho
    Raab, Rushi and Hancock have done well but Patel is a disaster
    How would you rate Gove and Boris?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    Rishi is just a class act. So articulate.

    Sunak is the only one in cabinet that I rate at all and he got his job by accident. This is no coincidence.
    Raab has done well imho
    We have different views, I think. To be fair to Raab, acting PM wasn't an easy gig. I don't believe he rose to the challenge but I don't particularly hold that against him. Not rising to the challenge of being a competent cabinet minister, which is his day job, is the issue for me.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,130

    Socky said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it.

    Though there has been appropriate criticism of Labour's recent racism problems, anti-English racism has rather got a pass from the media.
    Thank goodness anti Scottish racism has been shown up to be the fantasy that it is.
    I have never encountered anti-Scottish racism anywhere in England, except perhaps a bit of borderline national stereotyping about parsimony and yet you only have to get in a taxi from the airport in Glasgow to the centre to hear anti-English racism on regular occasion. It normally starts with " I am not anti-English but...." and then a tedious prejudiced rant about "the English" as though we are some homogenous group of Jacob Rees Moggs. I spent two years travelling to Scotland once a week, and while I met some of the nicest friendliest people in the world, they were also interspersed with a significant minority who were some of the worst bigots I have ever encountered. I suspect most of the latter vote SNP.
    Definitely happened.

    I'm reminded of those outraged folk who say that some bloke in a pub called them an 'English cnut' under the mistaken impression that only one of those descriptors was accurate.
    It happened numerous times . Shows your deep prejudice and chauvinistic bias to claim it couldn't. The party you support feeds off prejudice and hatred, whilst at the same time pretending to be "progressive". There is nothing more backward than nationalism. That article feeds the scummy narrative that the SNP needs to lie about to keep itself fed. What a sad bunch to take advantage of a pandemic in such a way.
    Nurse, he's off on one again.
    Well I say one, it's exactly the same tedious, hysteria-ridden rubbish as all the other ones.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,711
    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    Tell George..

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1250008872116502529?s=20
    The media screamed lock us up, now scream let us out.
    The government does something
    The media scream do something else!!!!
    The government does something else
    The media scream do something!!!!!
    If that's the best defence against criticisms of the government's management of the pandemic response you can come up with, you're as bad as you say the media is.
    Its not a "defence of the government's management of the pandemic response" - its a response to the Evening Standard's fatuous and misleading cartoon.

  • Options
    johnoundlejohnoundle Posts: 120

    Which Scotland's National Clinical Director called rubbish.

    Who to believe the SNP or the clinical director?
  • Options

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    Rishi is just a class act. So articulate.

    Sunak is the only one in cabinet that I rate at all and he got his job by accident. This is no coincidence.
    Raab has done well imho
    Raab, Rushi and Hancock have done well but Patel is a disaster
    How would you rate Gove and Boris?
    Do you need to ask me how I rate Boris but Gove has not made an impression for me

    Of course Boris for shear personality and optimism tops my poll
  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The government is still committed to driving the country over a cliff at the end of the year .

    Every time you think Sunak might be quite sane the lunacy of that decision brings home the fact that beneath the veneer of sanity which might have been shown with their response to the economic impact of the virus you’ll still find a bunch of nutjobs .
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,420
    OT FAO lawyers and other well-expensed types who use videoconferences

    LTT has a new 12-minute video which, while strictly about something else, does show the difference made by separately upgrading lighting, camera and microphone.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGqU_stcXDw

    Linus does not address the crucial arrangement of intellectual books or cheese-flavour curtains behind you.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Carnyx said:


    Just to say many thanks for the lepidoptera - a much appreciated treat in those times.

    Thanks - but wait until the REALLY showy stuff starts turning up!




  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,130


    Which Scotland's National Clinical Director called rubbish.

    Who to believe the SNP or the clinical director?
    I didn't think the intellectual level could be lowered, but hey..

    You mean the clinical director who works for the SNP government and regularly appears at briefings with the SNP FM? Who is this 'the SNP' of whom you speak and what unbelievable things have they been saying?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    edited April 2020
    Nobody should ever buy a copy of The Telegraph again, it was an arm of the Chinese government and their misinformation, for that they deserve to be punished.

    The Daily Telegraph has stopped publishing paid-for propaganda on behalf of Chinese state media, amid growing scrutiny of how Beijing is using the pandemic to grow its influence in English-language media aimed at western audiences.

    The long-running China Watch section, funded by the government-controlled China Daily news outlet, has appeared in the Telegraph for more than a decade. The content, written by Chinese state journalists, presents relentlessly upbeat views on China’s standing in the world in both print supplements and on a branded section of the Telegraph’s website.

    However, in recent days the dedicated content has been wiped from the Telegraph’s website along with another section that reproduced material from China’s People’s Daily Online – the official outlet of the country’s ruling communist party.

    Articles deleted by the Telegraph as part of the removal had headlines such as: “Why are some framing China’s heroic efforts to stop coronavirus as inhumane?”; “Traditional Chinese medicine ‘helps fight coronavirus’”; and “Coronavirus outbreak is not an opportunity to score points against China”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/apr/14/daily-telegraph-stops-publishing-section-paid-for-by-china
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    I wouldn't write off this story about Public Health England trying to sideline the devolved administrations. One of the complaints in Wales is how civil servants in Westminster often don't consider the implications of devolution in what they are doing.

    Public Health England hardly seems to have covered itself in glory amidst this pandemic. I don't find it implausible that they might brush the smaller health services aside and it doesn't seem it stems from anti-scottish racism.
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    nico67 said:

    The government is still committed to driving the country over a cliff at the end of the year .

    Every time you think Sunak might be quite sane the lunacy of that decision brings home the fact that beneath the veneer of sanity which might have been shown with their response to the economic impact of the virus you’ll still find a bunch of nutjobs .

    Can you explain your first sentence
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726


    Which Scotland's National Clinical Director called rubbish.

    Who to believe the SNP or the clinical director?
    Neither. Believe the evidence that care homes in Scotland and Wales were refused supplies on the direction of Public Health England. I would suggest NOT screaming "false narrative peddled by the SNP playing politics in the midst of a pandemic". Instead I would suggest either explaining the equally good Scottish and Welsh arrangements that are available to care homes in those countries, or admit someone screwed up and we'll sort it out. This denial in the face of evidence is doing no-one any good.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,171

    The UK's mobile networks have reported a further 20 cases of phone masts being targeted in suspected arson attacks over the Easter weekend.

    ¿Quixotic, no?

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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    I've just read the Times article, it's literally based on one company that has a contract with PHE who are purchasing all of their capacity.

    It is extremely irresponsible reporting.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    FF43 said:


    Which Scotland's National Clinical Director called rubbish.

    Who to believe the SNP or the clinical director?
    Neither. Believe the evidence that care homes in Scotland and Wales were refused supplies on the direction of Public Health England. I would suggest NOT screaming "false narrative peddled by the SNP playing politics in the midst of a pandemic". Instead I would suggest either explaining the equally good Scottish and Welsh arrangements that are available to care homes in those countries, or admit someone screwed up and we'll sort it out. This denial in the face of evidence is doing no-one any good.
    Actually Public Health England said they would be pleased to help but the Scottish government needed to step up with the funding first.

    Sturgeon must have known she was peddling a false narrative

    Why would a Nat do that I wonder?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Fianna Fail came first on seats and Varadkar seems to have got a bounce recently so seems reasonable
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited April 2020
    isam said:
    Assuming that these data are accurate, that's another cautiously encouraging piece of evidence to emerge today. The Nightingale hospital at the Excel Centre is reported to be nearly empty.

    https://www.hsj.co.uk/service-design/exclusive-nightingale-largely-empty-as-icus-handle-surge/7027398.article
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
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    Carnyx said:


    Just to say many thanks for the lepidoptera - a much appreciated treat in those times.

    Thanks - but wait until the REALLY showy stuff starts turning up!




    Garden Tiger. We get the Jersey one occasionally.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226

    I basically agree with you. Pretty sure he'd grumble then fade away.

    But it isn't ONLY about physically removing him from the premises. I don't think he would, but he could just conceivably say, "This election has no legitimacy due to fake news and the deep state stealing it from me and YOU. You have a duty to resist, certainly by not paying your taxes but also, if necessary, by force".

    That would be total fantasy for most previous Presidents. For Trump? Still not at all likely, but a bit less fantastical.

    Even then, most people (including Republicans) would tell him to do one. But there are not insignificant numbers of people who could be very awkward indeed.

    Whenever I picture Trump leaving the White House - which is pretty much every waking hour - the footage is always jerky and he is in a horizontal position. Make of that what you will.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    edited April 2020
    felix said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    A very non-political friend of mine just posted this angrily on FB:

    "Copied and shared so my Friends outside Spain know the truth, not fake news!

    Contrary to UK news reports Spain has not lifted it's lockdown .
    We are not lifting our lockdown, some construction and industrial workers can return to work. Schools are still closed, universities are still closed, all bars, restaurants and hotels are closed, all retail shops except food outlets are closed.
    We are only allowed out of our homes to shop for food, medical appointments and pharmacies and go to work if allowed as specified by the Decree.
    We are only allowed to purchase essential items.... ie food, drink
    We are not allowed out to exercise.
    Dog owners can briefly take their pets out within immediate vicinity of home.
    Our slightly eased lockdown is still way more strict than the UK one.
    Fines for disobeying the lockdown START at €600.
    We still have the Guardia and Army checking cars, shopping, receipts etc to ensure compliance
    So, having just listened to the UK news stating that Spain has lifted the lockdown, leaves me wondering why I even bother listening! The media obviously know best! 😡
    Borrowed wording."

    Tell George..

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1250008872116502529?s=20
    The media want gotcha headlines FACTS simply do not come into it.
    fixed it for you :-)
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    The government is still committed to driving the country over a cliff at the end of the year .

    Every time you think Sunak might be quite sane the lunacy of that decision brings home the fact that beneath the veneer of sanity which might have been shown with their response to the economic impact of the virus you’ll still find a bunch of nutjobs .

    Can you explain your first sentence
    Nothings ready . The virus has stopped the recruitment of customs officers , no infrastructure in NI , business after being devastated by the virus will be forced to enact more changes with little time left .

    Only a government which has become ideologically fixated with ending the transition period at the end of the year would subject business to this . Even many Leavers are okay with extending that but the government seems determined to plow on regardless!

    It’s absolute lunacy !
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    johnoundlejohnoundle Posts: 120
    edited April 2020


    Which Scotland's National Clinical Director called rubbish.

    Who to believe the SNP or the clinical director?
    I didn't think the intellectual level could be lowered, but hey..

    You mean the clinical director who works for the SNP government and regularly appears at briefings with the SNP FM? Who is this 'the SNP' of whom you speak and what unbelievable things have they been saying?

    Embarrassing that their own clinical director says Sturgeon's claim is rubbish,he's obviously seen through her diversionary tactics.

    Any idea why Sturgeon is only allowing one question at her briefings before the mic is cut off with no follow up questions allowed?
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226

    Thanks - but wait until the REALLY showy stuff starts turning up!


    Amazing colours! Did you paint that yourself?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    I've just had a quick look at the German stats office to see if they do a similar weekly deaths release like the ONS and they don't appear to.

    I don't know what the respective budgets would be, but I think the ONS deserve a lot of credit for the day to day work they do that for the most part goes unnoticed. Right now their weekly publication of death statistics is invaluable.
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    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    RobD said:
    As do the hospital numbers today
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226

    Mr. 86, I stopped watching the news regularly some months ago. I miss it surprisingly little.

    You and I really are chalk and cheese. I believe nothing until I've heard it from Huw Edwards.
This discussion has been closed.