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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In a State: Assessing WH2020

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  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    edited April 2020


    If I've seen something interesting on the internet or I have a casual interest about something, and I am talking to a professional expert in the subject, I ask them questions about it. All have been delighted that one is showing an interest. Evidently you'd prefer the proles to shut up and not worry their heads about it.
    "Oh, you're an oncologist? I saw an article the other day that said you can cure bone cancer with a diet rich in raw vegetables. Is that true?"

    "No, but the guy in the article said you'd say that, because you're in the grip of something called Big Farmer."

    This gets significantly worse with female experts, which I think is the point of the cartoon.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743

    Mr. Meeks, that sounds as daft as having Farage on wibbling about how we should deal with the pandemic.

    It's also why I never suggested Toby Young ought to be treated as an authority as regards health.

    A level of consistency would be fair.

    Yep - apparently he's an "expert" on the infection spread during a pandemic...

    https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1249303892405424130
    About that article:

    https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/1249618579126919168?s=21
    The trouble is that a lot of the morons shouting loudest have not the slightest basic understanding. Not only of scence - probably that would be too much to ask - they can't even understand simple English.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913

    The pressure to end the lockdown early is clearly intensifying, led by Sunak, who has probably seen the numbers. Williamson is right there with him.

    Then again, Sunak probably does not want to go down in history as the man who crashed the British economy more than any chancellor in history every could or would.

    Indeed, if the government goes for a long lockdown, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if he resigned, or at least threatened to.

    The virus is non-political and will take advantage if the lockdown is ended too early. It won't care about ministers resigning.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,745

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi Marquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    Lol - god forbid there should be posters on here with unhealthy obsessions about any thing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,407
    edited April 2020

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I don't think, .......that's an impression, rather than the result of scanning all of Mr G's comments over the years...... that one can describe him as having 'a servile loyalty to the Conservative party'. Pro-Conservative, yes, but IIRC last autumn he was being fairly critical.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    @rcs1000

    How are you seeing Florida and Texas?
  • Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913
    Endillion said:


    If I've seen something interesting on the internet or I have a casual interest about something, and I am talking to a professional expert in the subject, I ask them questions about it. All have been delighted that one is showing an interest. Evidently you'd prefer the proles to shut up and not worry their heads about it.
    "Oh, you're an oncologist? I saw an article the other day that said you can cure bone cancer with a diet rich in raw vegetables. Is that true?"

    "No, but the guy in the article said you'd say that, because you're in the grip of something called Big Farmer."

    This gets significantly worse with female experts, which I think is the point of the cartoon.
    'Big Farmer' - I love it.
    Also like the cartoon - there's one each week in 'New Scientist' by the same person.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,769
    Mr. Borough, I wouldn't claim especial geographical expertise, but the claim you linked to does rather neglect the fact that the United Kingdom does not appear to be in South America...
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    The pressure to end the lockdown early is clearly intensifying, led by Sunak, who has probably seen the numbers. Williamson is right there with him.

    Then again, Sunak probably does not want to go down in history as the man who crashed the British economy more than any chancellor in history every could or would.

    Indeed, if the government goes for a long lockdown, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if he resigned, or at least threatened to.

    The virus is non-political and will take advantage if the lockdown is ended too early. It won't care about ministers resigning.
    For the first month of the lockdown, I would agree.

    Now, the virus is getting intensely political.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I don't think, .......that's an impression, rather than the result of scanning all of Mr G's comments over the years...... that one can describe him as having 'a servile loyalty to the Conservative party'. Pro-Conservative, yes, but IIRC last autumn he was being fairly critical.
    Also, it's a strange way of describing someone who (twice) voted for Tony Blair's Labour party.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    You ducked my question. Paul Staines has no interest in the truth, only in being a fully on-message flying monkey for this government and Leave. Inconvenient stories are ignored, non-stories are twisted into hate-clicks.

    It’s noteworthy how lacking in useful achievements the far right commentariat is. If they want to be introduced for their specialist knowledge, they need to get some first. Till then, they’ll continue to be introduced as the cheerleaders for basement-dwelling incels and affluent reactionaries that they are.

    This is the problem with attempting political balance on matters other than politics. There are few experts in any field of human endeavour who are also passionately right wing in their politics. Therefore if you disclose the politics of people taking part in high profile discussions of this nature it will give the impression that the Right are being unfairly excluded when the truth is that they are being necessarily excluded.
    Does the left accept the concept of being 'necessarily excluded' for any other other group in any other context? I thought that inclusion and diversity were innate goods that must be enforced by policy - with quotas, if necessary - in areas where they do not naturally occur.

    Strange that right-wing representation should be the only exception, no?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,240

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Feels like going down the Fox News route. Not good. Do we now have to question every expert affiliation and have Tory facts and Labour facts?
    Comparing Sky to Fox news is a nonsense

    It is correct for impartial broadcasting that those invited to express their opinion should be introduced on their political allegiance whether it be right, left or centre
    It really isn’t. This way madness lies.
    Why are you scared of transparency
    If you were a guest, how would you answer the question on your allegiance?
    I am a liberal leaning conservative party member
    G, I think like HYFUD you will have blue blood running in your veins and are a die hard Tory. They can do no wrong.
    Yes they can and I have been critical often.

    And to be honest I do not want to fight over this

    It is clear the ones making the biggest objections to transparency are those on the left
    Happy to leave it at that G,

    I will leave it with this very apt saying, not for you but Tories in general.

    CENSORSHIP: THE LAST REFUGE OF THE IGNORANT, THE COWARDLY AND THE WEAK
    Are you ignorant?

    Are you a coward?

    Are you a weakling?

    When someone says, "Boo!" do you lose control of your bladder?

    Has your lack of education left you woefully unprepared to engage in debate with those whose opinions differ from yours?

    Are you tired of attempting to make an argument, only to have people much more intelligent than you prove to you that your premise is infantile, erroneous, stupid and nonsensical?

    If so, then your only recourse is to censor those with whom you do not agree.

    If you can't beat them, ban them.

    If that is your philosophy, how does it feel to be a weak, ignorant coward?

    Please inform those of us who are not weak, ignorant and cowardly how it feels to be you.
    What's put you in such an unusually good mood Malc? :lol:
    Lucky, the sun is shining , I am on holiday and finally got some beer at weekend so cannot complain at all. Hence my gentle measured tones this morning.
    I am glad - you deserve some good fortune. Long may it continue. Gloomy and grey here but it's been amazing over the weekend so cannot grumble.
    Cool and overcast here in Hampshire. We're promised some sun this afternoon so I'm going for a walk which is getting on for something I might do on a Bank Holiday Monday. Only I wouldn't start from home and would call into a couple of pubs en route
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I don't think, .......that's an impression, rather than the result of scanning all of Mr G's comments over the years...... that one can describe him as having 'a servile loyalty to the Conservative party'. Pro-Conservative, yes, but IIRC last autumn he was being fairly critical.
    Didn’t he resign from it at one point?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    You were fuming last week that Phillip Lee had given details about this. And now you affect to forget. Well, your default setting is pitifully obvious.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    So we get to a debate in early October and Biden just appears to be lacking in his mental faculties. Incoherence, names forgotten, dates wrong....

    I can see a Trump landslide in those sorry circumstances.

    I am confident that either (i) Biden is up to the campaign or (ii) if he isn't he will not be selected.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited April 2020

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    Big G. you would be the first to rightly call for the heads of Drakeford and Gethin if it turns out Covid-19 deaths in Wales occurred through their errors or negligence. You do not apply the same standards to Westminster.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,401
    Endillion said:


    If I've seen something interesting on the internet or I have a casual interest about something, and I am talking to a professional expert in the subject, I ask them questions about it. All have been delighted that one is showing an interest. Evidently you'd prefer the proles to shut up and not worry their heads about it.
    "Oh, you're an oncologist? I saw an article the other day that said you can cure bone cancer with a diet rich in raw vegetables. Is that true?"

    "No, but the guy in the article said you'd say that, because you're in the grip of something called Big Farmer."

    This gets significantly worse with female experts, which I think is the point of the cartoon.
    Does it? What are you an professor in and getting continually pestered about by the great unwashed?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,303
    edited April 2020

    Guardian has an interesting article on the PPE discussion from the CEO of NHS Providers. The crucial para is, I think:
    NHS Providers does not represent GPs, care homes and hospices. But it’s clear that the shortages of PPE have been more extensive, serious and difficult to overcome in these places. That’s due, to a large extent, to the logistics of trying to deliver to more than 50,000 different providers, compared with the 217 trusts we represent, all of which have 24/7 central storage facilities. National leaders are working as hard and fast as they can to solve these problems but it’s taking time. Trusts are helping by sharing as much PPE stock as they can.

    In my working life, long ago, now I used to supply a hospice with pharmaceuticals, as part of my hospital pharmacist duties. It was made clear to me that this wasn't; NHS, especially when the Finance dept of the responsible Trust rang me up and asked why I was being so 'generous'. I said that what they had was clinically essential...... we treated them as a ward, and were neither more or less 'generous' and after a bit of muttering, that was that.

    So talking about NHS England only given Scotland does not have trusts.
    No doubt it will be at least as bad here.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I don't think, .......that's an impression, rather than the result of scanning all of Mr G's comments over the years...... that one can describe him as having 'a servile loyalty to the Conservative party'. Pro-Conservative, yes, but IIRC last autumn he was being fairly critical.
    Last Autumn the required belief system for on-message Conservatives abruptly changed, and it took some of the loyalist-but-less-hackish tribal Tories a few months to internalize the things they were now required to believe.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913

    The pressure to end the lockdown early is clearly intensifying, led by Sunak, who has probably seen the numbers. Williamson is right there with him.

    Then again, Sunak probably does not want to go down in history as the man who crashed the British economy more than any chancellor in history every could or would.

    Indeed, if the government goes for a long lockdown, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if he resigned, or at least threatened to.

    The virus is non-political and will take advantage if the lockdown is ended too early. It won't care about ministers resigning.
    For the first month of the lockdown, I would agree.

    Now, the virus is getting intensely political.
    Not sure whether that's a joke or if you misunderstood what I wrote ;-)
    It was meant literally.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,859

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,132

    The pressure to end the lockdown early is clearly intensifying, led by Sunak, who has probably seen the numbers. Williamson is right there with him.

    Then again, Sunak probably does not want to go down in history as the man who crashed the British economy more than any chancellor in history every could or would.

    Indeed, if the government goes for a long lockdown, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if he resigned, or at least threatened to.

    The virus is non-political and will take advantage if the lockdown is ended too early. It won't care about ministers resigning.
    For the first month of the lockdown, I would agree.

    Now, the virus is getting intensely political.
    Oh dear.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,303

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Feels like going down the Fox News route. Not good. Do we now have to question every expert affiliation and have Tory facts and Labour facts?
    Comparing Sky to Fox news is a nonsense

    It is correct for impartial broadcasting that those invited to express their opinion should be introduced on their political allegiance whether it be right, left or centre
    It really isn’t. This way madness lies.
    Why are you scared of transparency
    If you were a guest, how would you answer the question on your allegiance?
    I am a liberal leaning conservative party member
    G, I think like HYFUD you will have blue blood running in your veins and are a die hard Tory. They can do no wrong.
    Yes they can and I have been critical often.

    And to be honest I do not want to fight over this

    It is clear the ones making the biggest objections to transparency are those on the left
    Happy to leave it at that G,

    I will leave it with this very apt saying, not for you but Tories in general.

    CENSORSHIP: THE LAST REFUGE OF THE IGNORANT, THE COWARDLY AND THE WEAK
    Are you ignorant?

    Are you a coward?

    Are you a weakling?

    When someone says, "Boo!" do you lose control of your bladder?

    Has your lack of education left you woefully unprepared to engage in debate with those whose opinions differ from yours?

    Are you tired of attempting to make an argument, only to have people much more intelligent than you prove to you that your premise is infantile, erroneous, stupid and nonsensical?

    If so, then your only recourse is to censor those with whom you do not agree.

    If you can't beat them, ban them.

    If that is your philosophy, how does it feel to be a weak, ignorant coward?

    Please inform those of us who are not weak, ignorant and cowardly how it feels to be you.
    What's put you in such an unusually good mood Malc? :lol:
    Lucky, the sun is shining , I am on holiday and finally got some beer at weekend so cannot complain at all. Hence my gentle measured tones this morning.
    I am glad - you deserve some good fortune. Long may it continue. Gloomy and grey here but it's been amazing over the weekend so cannot grumble.
    Usually the other way round as well, certainly pleasant when you can sit in the garden. The shrubs, trees, flowers etc are bursting with life.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,519
    edited April 2020

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    An interesting take by Robert. At a stretch and with a smidgen of "confirmation bias" it supports my view that Trump is heading for a shellacking in November.

    I strongly believe there are a small but critical mass of Americans in the apolitical centre who either did not vote in 2016 or voted reluctantly for the Donald ("let's try him, you never know") who this time, since now they DO know - that they landed themselves with what is essentially a joke figure in the White House - will vote Dem. If so, given the rather freakish maths which delivered Trump's EC majority, the 2016 result will unwind and then some. He will lose almost every state except the ones he won comfortably last time.

    My call is therefore a Dem landslide. I think Trump will struggle to exceed 200 in the EC.

    Caveats are two. (1) That the Dems do not allow Joe Biden to run if he is medically incapable due to cognitive impairment. (2) That the Covid-19 crisis does not become so tragic and all consuming that even an individual as palpably unsuited to national political leadership as Donald Trump gets the benefit of "rally around the flag" and "not the time to change" sentiment.

    I certainly cannot see a Biden landslide.
    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1249155074078773249?s=20
    It will be close and likely Pennsylvania will be the key swing state, with Biden hoping his growing up there will give him the edge
    So we get to a debate in early October and Biden just appears to be lacking in his mental faculties. Incoherence, names forgotten, dates wrong....

    I can see a Trump landslide in those sorry circumstances.
    Why? How would that differ from the incumbent?
    Because Trump will viciously exploit it - and Biden won't?
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    Endillion said:


    If I've seen something interesting on the internet or I have a casual interest about something, and I am talking to a professional expert in the subject, I ask them questions about it. All have been delighted that one is showing an interest. Evidently you'd prefer the proles to shut up and not worry their heads about it.
    "Oh, you're an oncologist? I saw an article the other day that said you can cure bone cancer with a diet rich in raw vegetables. Is that true?"

    "No, but the guy in the article said you'd say that, because you're in the grip of something called Big Farmer."

    This gets significantly worse with female experts, which I think is the point of the cartoon.
    Does it? What are you an professor in and getting continually pestered about by the great unwashed?
    no, just a senior lecturer.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    An interesting take by Robert. At a stretch and with a smidgen of "confirmation bias" it supports my view that Trump is heading for a shellacking in November.

    I strongly believe there are a small but critical mass of Americans in the apolitical centre who either did not vote in 2016 or voted reluctantly for the Donald ("let's try him, you never know") who this time, since now they DO know - that they landed themselves with what is essentially a joke figure in the White House - will vote Dem. If so, given the rather freakish maths which delivered Trump's EC majority, the 2016 result will unwind and then some. He will lose almost every state except the ones he won comfortably last time.

    My call is therefore a Dem landslide. I think Trump will struggle to exceed 200 in the EC.

    Caveats are two. (1) That the Dems do not allow Joe Biden to run if he is medically incapable due to cognitive impairment. (2) That the Covid-19 crisis does not become so tragic and all consuming that even an individual as palpably unsuited to national political leadership as Donald Trump gets the benefit of "rally around the flag" and "not the time to change" sentiment.

    I certainly cannot see a Biden landslide.
    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1249155074078773249?s=20
    It will be close and likely Pennsylvania will be the key swing state, with Biden hoping his growing up there will give him the edge
    Have you read the original post which says that the voting intention polls use 2016 Voters as the sampling population? Robert clais that the apporval ratings are a better guide. On top of that the poll was conducted by Trump's favourite news corporation.
  • Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    You were fuming last week that Phillip Lee had given details about this. And now you affect to forget. Well, your default setting is pitifully obvious.
    Philip Lee has an agenda, was introduced as a liberal when he defected from the conservative party and was not elected as a liberal and had a story about pandemic planning in 2016.

    I have no idea how relevant that planning could have been to this outbreak but it later transpired Jeremy Hunt sat on it, so it is to him questions would need to be asked in some future enquiry

  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    kle4 said:
    Darth Vader's holdall.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,859
    Syriza, Melenchon, Die Linke, Podemos also went outside the mainstream centre left in Europe too.
    However under FPTP in the UK the main beneficiaries of a split left would be the Tories
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    HYUFD said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
    The death count makes that judgement hard to sustain. But since you care more about Conservative electoral fortunes than a few thousand dead, that probably isn’t the metric you’re using.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:


    If I've seen something interesting on the internet or I have a casual interest about something, and I am talking to a professional expert in the subject, I ask them questions about it. All have been delighted that one is showing an interest. Evidently you'd prefer the proles to shut up and not worry their heads about it.
    "Oh, you're an oncologist? I saw an article the other day that said you can cure bone cancer with a diet rich in raw vegetables. Is that true?"

    "No, but the guy in the article said you'd say that, because you're in the grip of something called Big Farmer."

    This gets significantly worse with female experts, which I think is the point of the cartoon.
    Does it? What are you an professor in and getting continually pestered about by the great unwashed?
    I'm not a professor, but I'm really good at Reading Things And Not Deliberately Misinterpreting Them For Some Unexplained Reason.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    You were fuming last week that Phillip Lee had given details about this. And now you affect to forget. Well, your default setting is pitifully obvious.
    Philip Lee has an agenda, was introduced as a liberal when he defected from the conservative party and was not elected as a liberal and had a story about pandemic planning in 2016.

    I have no idea how relevant that planning could have been to this outbreak but it later transpired Jeremy Hunt sat on it, so it is to him questions would need to be asked in some future enquiry

    Right. So now you can start caring about it again. That’s fortunate.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,303

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi Marquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
    where do you find all these moths, most I see are the ones that love my wife's cashmere sweaters
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,401
    edited April 2020
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:


    If I've seen something interesting on the internet or I have a casual interest about something, and I am talking to a professional expert in the subject, I ask them questions about it. All have been delighted that one is showing an interest. Evidently you'd prefer the proles to shut up and not worry their heads about it.
    "Oh, you're an oncologist? I saw an article the other day that said you can cure bone cancer with a diet rich in raw vegetables. Is that true?"

    "No, but the guy in the article said you'd say that, because you're in the grip of something called Big Farmer."

    This gets significantly worse with female experts, which I think is the point of the cartoon.
    Does it? What are you an professor in and getting continually pestered about by the great unwashed?
    I'm not a professor, but I'm really good at Reading Things And Not Deliberately Misinterpreting Them For Some Unexplained Reason.
    So you were relating an imagined experience. Just checking.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    The pressure to end the lockdown early is clearly intensifying, led by Sunak, who has probably seen the numbers. Williamson is right there with him.

    Then again, Sunak probably does not want to go down in history as the man who crashed the British economy more than any chancellor in history every could or would.

    Indeed, if the government goes for a long lockdown, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if he resigned, or at least threatened to.

    The virus is non-political and will take advantage if the lockdown is ended too early. It won't care about ministers resigning.
    For the first month of the lockdown, I would agree.

    Now, the virus is getting intensely political.
    It's a good job the virus can't vote then.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,990
    edited April 2020
    DougSeal said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I don't think, .......that's an impression, rather than the result of scanning all of Mr G's comments over the years...... that one can describe him as having 'a servile loyalty to the Conservative party'. Pro-Conservative, yes, but IIRC last autumn he was being fairly critical.
    Didn’t he resign from it at one point?
    Yes I did last autumn when the dissident conservatives were sacked and I only rejoined when most of them were handed back the whip

    Indeed to those who think I am servile to the party my resignation letter to my local party withheld no punches
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,859
    edited April 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
    The death count makes that judgement hard to sustain. But since you care more about Conservative electoral fortunes than a few thousand dead, that probably isn’t the metric you’re using.
    A death count per head lower than France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands and the increase in which fell yesterday does make that judgement possible to sustain
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,407
    malcolmg said:

    Guardian has an interesting article on the PPE discussion from the CEO of NHS Providers. The crucial para is, I think:
    NHS Providers does not represent GPs, care homes and hospices. But it’s clear that the shortages of PPE have been more extensive, serious and difficult to overcome in these places. That’s due, to a large extent, to the logistics of trying to deliver to more than 50,000 different providers, compared with the 217 trusts we represent, all of which have 24/7 central storage facilities. National leaders are working as hard and fast as they can to solve these problems but it’s taking time. Trusts are helping by sharing as much PPE stock as they can.

    In my working life, long ago, now I used to supply a hospice with pharmaceuticals, as part of my hospital pharmacist duties. It was made clear to me that this wasn't; NHS, especially when the Finance dept of the responsible Trust rang me up and asked why I was being so 'generous'. I said that what they had was clinically essential...... we treated them as a ward, and were neither more or less 'generous' and after a bit of muttering, that was that.

    So talking about NHS England only given Scotland does not have trusts.
    No doubt it will be at least as bad here.
    AFAIK, Malc, the basic structure is the same. You also have much greater problems with distance and isolated communities such as the Northern Isles and the Hebrides, especially the Outer Isles. You do though have an advantage of a smaller population and therefore friendship, and therefore support groups of CEOs etc are likely to be stronger; such people are more likely to have been at the same schools and universities.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    malcolmg said:

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi Marquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
    where do you find all these moths, most I see are the ones that love my wife's cashmere sweaters
    Keep up with it! You set a trap to collect the moths overnight.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,745
    malcolmg said:

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi Marquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
    where do you find all these moths, most I see are the ones that love my wife's cashmere sweaters
    LOL.

    Purchase yourself a moth trap, Malc. You can amuse yourself for hours - even while observing lockdown.
    Just think what might be lurking in the dark in Ayrshire....

    https://www.angleps.com/mothtraps.php

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    You were fuming last week that Phillip Lee had given details about this. And now you affect to forget. Well, your default setting is pitifully obvious.
    Philip Lee has an agenda, was introduced as a liberal when he defected from the conservative party and was not elected as a liberal and had a story about pandemic planning in 2016.

    I have no idea how relevant that planning could have been to this outbreak but it later transpired Jeremy Hunt sat on it, so it is to him questions would need to be asked in some future enquiry

    Why only Hunt? Just because Lee defected doesn’t distract from his views does it? Lee is a practicing GP so may have better understanding than others.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,743
    Been chatting to a Labour activist this morning, they still think they won the argument and Starmer will be a more presentable face to the same busted policies. If this is the thinking that Labour activists have then it's going to be a long road.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
    The death count makes that judgement hard to sustain. But since you care more about Conservative electoral fortunes than a few thousand dead, that probably isn’t the metric you’re using.
    A death count per head lower than France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands and the increase in which fell yesterday does make that judgement possible to sustain
    We’ll come back to that assessment in a couple of weeks over a cup of hot broth.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited April 2020


    Now you know how I feel on here being someone who gambles for a living

    Actually though, isn’t it equally an economic problem? We don’t spend all our money trying to keep everyone alive and never have
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,325
    kinabalu said:

    You ducked my question. Paul Staines has no interest in the truth, only in being a fully on-message flying monkey for this government and Leave. Inconvenient stories are ignored, non-stories are twisted into hate-clicks.

    It’s noteworthy how lacking in useful achievements the far right commentariat is. If they want to be introduced for their specialist knowledge, they need to get some first. Till then, they’ll continue to be introduced as the cheerleaders for basement-dwelling incels and affluent reactionaries that they are.

    This is the problem with attempting political balance on matters other than politics. There are few experts in any field of human endeavour who are also passionately right wing in their politics. Therefore if you disclose the politics of people taking part in high profile discussions of this nature it will give the impression that the Right are being unfairly excluded when the truth is that they are being necessarily excluded.
    There are certainly economists, lawyers, financiers, business people, who are passionately right wing, and who would count as experts in their fields.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:


    If I've seen something interesting on the internet or I have a casual interest about something, and I am talking to a professional expert in the subject, I ask them questions about it. All have been delighted that one is showing an interest. Evidently you'd prefer the proles to shut up and not worry their heads about it.
    "Oh, you're an oncologist? I saw an article the other day that said you can cure bone cancer with a diet rich in raw vegetables. Is that true?"

    "No, but the guy in the article said you'd say that, because you're in the grip of something called Big Farmer."

    This gets significantly worse with female experts, which I think is the point of the cartoon.
    Does it? What are you an professor in and getting continually pestered about by the great unwashed?
    I'm not a professor, but I'm really good at Reading Things And Not Deliberately Misinterpreting Them For Some Unexplained Reason.
    So you were relating an imagined experience. Just checking.
    Just so we're clear, are you saying:

    a) this never happens;
    b) this doesn't happen often enough to matter; or
    c) this doesn't apply to you, and therefore doesn't matter?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    kle4 said:
    Imperial baggage is carried in an AT-AT.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,607
    edited April 2020

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I don't think, .......that's an impression, rather than the result of scanning all of Mr G's comments over the years...... that one can describe him as having 'a servile loyalty to the Conservative party'. Pro-Conservative, yes, but IIRC last autumn he was being fairly critical.
    Last Autumn the required belief system for on-message Conservatives abruptly changed, and it took some of the loyalist-but-less-hackish tribal Tories a few months to internalize the things they were now required to believe.
    The Tory Party has always been at war with Eastasia. It is the wreckers who planted the false stories...

    As he supped his Victory Gin, a tear rolled down his cheek. Big G loved Big Boris.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,407

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    You were fuming last week that Phillip Lee had given details about this. And now you affect to forget. Well, your default setting is pitifully obvious.
    Philip Lee has an agenda, was introduced as a liberal when he defected from the conservative party and was not elected as a liberal and had a story about pandemic planning in 2016.

    I have no idea how relevant that planning could have been to this outbreak but it later transpired Jeremy Hunt sat on it, so it is to him questions would need to be asked in some future enquiry

    To be fair to Lee, I'm led to believe that there IS something nasty about pandemic planning in a locked drawer in the Dept of Health.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,132
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
    The death count makes that judgement hard to sustain. But since you care more about Conservative electoral fortunes than a few thousand dead, that probably isn’t the metric you’re using.
    A death count per head lower than France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands and the increase in which fell yesterday does make that judgement possible to sustain
    I'd reserve judgement on the 'fall' in deaths, figures around easter aren't going to be timely enough to be entirely correct.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,578
    kinabalu said:

    So we get to a debate in early October and Biden just appears to be lacking in his mental faculties. Incoherence, names forgotten, dates wrong....

    I can see a Trump landslide in those sorry circumstances.

    I am confident that either (i) Biden is up to the campaign or (ii) if he isn't he will not be selected.
    As long as Clinton doesn't get the nomination.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,929
    MaxPB said:

    Been chatting to a Labour activist this morning, they still think they won the argument and Starmer will be a more presentable face to the same busted policies. If this is the thinking that Labour activists have then it's going to be a long road.

    Except of course, half the nation are now suckling on the government teat of furlough, soon to wind up on universal credit as the redundancies start coming in.

    Massive state intervention is here to stay, and is going to look a lot more popular for the forseeable future than it did in 2019.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,550

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
    The death count makes that judgement hard to sustain. But since you care more about Conservative electoral fortunes than a few thousand dead, that probably isn’t the metric you’re using.
    A death count per head lower than France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands and the increase in which fell yesterday does make that judgement possible to sustain
    We’ll come back to that assessment in a couple of weeks over a cup of hot broth.
    What would be the point of trying to draw comparisons in a couple of weeks when this is something the whole world will be dealing with for at least the next year?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,407

    malcolmg said:

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi Marquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
    where do you find all these moths, most I see are the ones that love my wife's cashmere sweaters
    LOL.

    Purchase yourself a moth trap, Malc. You can amuse yourself for hours - even while observing lockdown.
    Just think what might be lurking in the dark in Ayrshire....

    https://www.angleps.com/mothtraps.php

    'Just think what might be lurking in the dark in Ayrshire....'

    Or read Tam 'O Shanter. Young ladies in very short skirts.
  • Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    Big G. you would be the first to rightly call for the heads of Drakeford and Gethin if it turns out Covid-19 deaths in Wales occurred through their errors or negligence. You do not apply the same standards to Westminster.
    Drakeford and Sturgeon are part of Cobra headed by Boris and following the expert advice. I therefore support them all as they have no choice and if at some stage the advice was wrong then that will have to be addressed

    On covid I have no criticism of Sturgeon or Drakeford who have largely acted in sync with Boris
  • blairfblairf Posts: 98
    two thoughts this morning.

    UK can't have the 'Nordic' high tax high welfare model. we currently have a ~45% drop in tax revenue, and likely a persistent ~20% over the next years. We cannot sustain our current welfare state and health system with that let alone fund any increases. Something will have to give.

    The developing world are screwed. They are at the end of the supply chains of our consumption based economies (energy, materials, unfinished goods etc.) The long march away from global inequality and absolute poverty will end and then reverse.

    Neither of these have put me in a good mood. I shall try to bake this afternoon and not think about it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
    The death count makes that judgement hard to sustain. But since you care more about Conservative electoral fortunes than a few thousand dead, that probably isn’t the metric you’re using.
    A death count per head lower than France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands and the increase in which fell yesterday does make that judgement possible to sustain
    You are wilfully mis-using data again.
  • nichomar said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    You were fuming last week that Phillip Lee had given details about this. And now you affect to forget. Well, your default setting is pitifully obvious.
    Philip Lee has an agenda, was introduced as a liberal when he defected from the conservative party and was not elected as a liberal and had a story about pandemic planning in 2016.

    I have no idea how relevant that planning could have been to this outbreak but it later transpired Jeremy Hunt sat on it, so it is to him questions would need to be asked in some future enquiry

    Why only Hunt? Just because Lee defected doesn’t distract from his views does it? Lee is a practicing GP so may have better understanding than others.
    He was secretary of state for health at the time
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    Mr. Meeks, that sounds as daft as having Farage on wibbling about how we should deal with the pandemic.

    It's also why I never suggested Toby Young ought to be treated as an authority as regards health.

    A level of consistency would be fair.

    Yep - apparently he's an "expert" on the infection spread during a pandemic...

    https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1249303892405424130
    Another piece on “Read why everything should be back to how I liked it and how I want to ignore anything that indicates otherwise”

    Let’s see what egregious misinterpretations of reality and facts he comes up with this time to support his denial that anything is wrong.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,303

    malcolmg said:

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi Marquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
    where do you find all these moths, most I see are the ones that love my wife's cashmere sweaters
    LOL.

    Purchase yourself a moth trap, Malc. You can amuse yourself for hours - even while observing lockdown.
    Just think what might be lurking in the dark in Ayrshire....

    https://www.angleps.com/mothtraps.php

    Burgessian, for sure they will be ugly beggars about here
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,407
    edited April 2020
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:


    If I've seen something interesting on the internet or I have a casual interest about something, and I am talking to a professional expert in the subject, I ask them questions about it. All have been delighted that one is showing an interest. Evidently you'd prefer the proles to shut up and not worry their heads about it.
    "Oh, you're an oncologist? I saw an article the other day that said you can cure bone cancer with a diet rich in raw vegetables. Is that true?"

    "No, but the guy in the article said you'd say that, because you're in the grip of something called Big Farmer."

    This gets significantly worse with female experts, which I think is the point of the cartoon.
    Does it? What are you an professor in and getting continually pestered about by the great unwashed?
    I'm not a professor, but I'm really good at Reading Things And Not Deliberately Misinterpreting Them For Some Unexplained Reason.
    So you were relating an imagined experience. Just checking.
    Just so we're clear, are you saying:

    a) this never happens;
    b) this doesn't happen often enough to matter; or
    c) this doesn't apply to you, and therefore doesn't matter?
    I wouldn't get Ydoethur or any of our other teacher colleagues on the subject of ill-informed discussions about education.


    After all, we've all been to school..........
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,859

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
    The death count makes that judgement hard to sustain. But since you care more about Conservative electoral fortunes than a few thousand dead, that probably isn’t the metric you’re using.
    A death count per head lower than France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands and the increase in which fell yesterday does make that judgement possible to sustain
    You are wilfully mis-using data again.
    Just facts
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
    The death count makes that judgement hard to sustain. But since you care more about Conservative electoral fortunes than a few thousand dead, that probably isn’t the metric you’re using.
    A death count per head lower than France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands and the increase in which fell yesterday does make that judgement possible to sustain
    I'd reserve judgement on the 'fall' in deaths, figures around easter aren't going to be timely enough to be entirely correct.
    Reporting pattern yesterday actually looked pretty consistent with the days before - eg for deaths on 10 April, there were 115 reported on 11 April and a further 308 reported on 12 April. That's an increase by a factor of 3.68 - simple average for the preceding three days was 3.47. There was a big weekend lag effect last week, but not obviously so far through this weekend.

    (Based on England only as I don't have the data for anywhere else.)

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,519

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi Marquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
    Sword-grass is very rare in Devon - I had one last year, the first here for over a decade. Red Sword-grass is less scarce, but I have only had a couple. Both impressive beasties. The camouflage of the Red Sword-grass can be spectacular - just a piece of broken wood.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-vetusta/#prettyPhoto
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    Big G. you would be the first to rightly call for the heads of Drakeford and Gethin if it turns out Covid-19 deaths in Wales occurred through their errors or negligence. You do not apply the same standards to Westminster.
    Drakeford and Sturgeon are part of Cobra headed by Boris and following the expert advice. I therefore support them all as they have no choice and if at some stage the advice was wrong then that will have to be addressed

    On covid I have no criticism of Sturgeon or Drakeford who have largely acted in sync with Boris
    Well I would. If the lack of PPE and testing contribute to any unnecessary deaths in Wales they should be vilified.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    You ducked my question. Paul Staines has no interest in the truth, only in being a fully on-message flying monkey for this government and Leave. Inconvenient stories are ignored, non-stories are twisted into hate-clicks.

    It’s noteworthy how lacking in useful achievements the far right commentariat is. If they want to be introduced for their specialist knowledge, they need to get some first. Till then, they’ll continue to be introduced as the cheerleaders for basement-dwelling incels and affluent reactionaries that they are.

    This is the problem with attempting political balance on matters other than politics. There are few experts in any field of human endeavour who are also passionately right wing in their politics. Therefore if you disclose the politics of people taking part in high profile discussions of this nature it will give the impression that the Right are being unfairly excluded when the truth is that they are being necessarily excluded.
    There are certainly economists, lawyers, financiers, business people, who are passionately right wing, and who would count as experts in their fields.
    There are plenty of scientists that "dress right". However most keep their heads down as academia is heavily slanted to the left publicly and those that out themselves as not being on the left politically tend to find themselves castigated.

    Much the same as teachers I am told where admitting to being on the right I am told is social death in the staff room.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:


    I certainly cannot see a Biden landslide.
    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1249155074078773249?s=20
    It will be close and likely Pennsylvania will be the key swing state, with Biden hoping his growing up there will give him the edge

    Have you read the original post which says that the voting intention polls use 2016 Voters as the sampling population? Robert clais that the apporval ratings are a better guide. On top of that the poll was conducted by Trump's favourite news corporation.
    TBF although the Fox network in general is very propagandistic their polling is pretty good. 538 shows them using two different polling firms, one leaning Dem +1.5 and one GOP +0.4. And they're both pretty highly rated in terms of accuracy. This one appears to be Beacon, which is the one that leans Dem.

    However there's a different problem with just posting that poll which is that there are plenty more other good polls with recent fieldwork showing quite decent Biden leads, and Biden +5.9 as the average, so if you're trying to make a prediction (as opposed to making some hackish point) you'd be extremely dumb to just use that particular one.
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html#!


  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I see Ebola flaring up again in DRC

    In city of Beni, a city with over 200k inhabitants 2 people died this weekend

    .

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited April 2020

    nichomar said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    You were fuming last week that Phillip Lee had given details about this. And now you affect to forget. Well, your default setting is pitifully obvious.
    Philip Lee has an agenda, was introduced as a liberal when he defected from the conservative party and was not elected as a liberal and had a story about pandemic planning in 2016.

    I have no idea how relevant that planning could have been to this outbreak but it later transpired Jeremy Hunt sat on it, so it is to him questions would need to be asked in some future enquiry

    Why only Hunt? Just because Lee defected doesn’t distract from his views does it? Lee is a practicing GP so may have better understanding than others.
    He was secretary of state for health at the time
    So what that doesn’t make him an expert. Only an unqualified government minister is allowed an opinion, well it’s a view.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited April 2020
    Great persuasive thread header from Robert Smithson.

    Certainly this extract convinced me that the Democrats look virtually certain to win Wisconsin come November:

    " And she won with more votes than President Trump got in 2016. I want you to think about that for a second. A Senatorial candidate, in a midterms year, got more votes than the winning Presidential candidate got two years earlier. If anyone can find another example of that, I will send along a 20 pound Amazon voucher. I expect I’ll keep my money.":

    I've put my money down for a Democratic win in this State at odds of 8/11 with BetFred (Betfair Sportsbook offer the same odds).

    DYOR.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
    The death count makes that judgement hard to sustain. But since you care more about Conservative electoral fortunes than a few thousand dead, that probably isn’t the metric you’re using.
    A death count per head lower than France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands and the increase in which fell yesterday does make that judgement possible to sustain
    You are wilfully mis-using data again.
    Just facts
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Facts not applied in the appropriate context, and quoted out of context for politically mischievous purposes.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,303
    eristdoof said:

    malcolmg said:

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi Marquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
    where do you find all these moths, most I see are the ones that love my wife's cashmere sweaters
    Keep up with it! You set a trap to collect the moths overnight.
    I thought they were out wandering at night with a torch
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Bloody hell.....

    Police collect nearly 800 bodies from Ecuador's virus epicenter
    Ecuador said police have removed almost 800 bodies in recent weeks from homes in Guayaquil, the epicenter of the country's coronavirus outbreak, after the disease overwhelmed emergency services, hospitals and funeral parlours.

    Mortuary workers in the Pacific port city have been unable to cope with a backlog, with residents posting videos on social media showing abandoned bodies in the streets.

    "The number we have collected with the task force from people's homes exceeded 700 people," said Jorge Wated, who leads a team of police and military personnel created by the government to help with the chaos unleashed by Covid-19.

    He later said Sunday on Twitter that the joint task force, in operation for the past three weeks, had retrieved 771 bodies from homes and another 631 from hospitals, whose morgues are full.

    Wated did not specify the cause of death for the victims, 600 of whom have now been buried by the authorities.

    Ecuador has recorded 7,500 cases of the coronavirus since the first diagnosis was confirmed on February 29.

    Ok Eadric, you can have this one.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    rkrkrk said:

    Socky said:

    rkrkrk said:

    If you hate expertise, then experts are going to find it pretty tricky to vote for your party. And before long they're all in another party.

    It is interesting that you assume that everyone will have a party affiliation.

    I probably should have said 'voting for another party'. In the US, some polls have found that just 6% of scientists identify as Republicans vs. 55% as Democrats.
    If that figure of 55% really is for "identifying as Democrats" that is a really high figure. A large number of scientists will vote but not consider themselves "to be a Democrat" we would be looking at a split of 20% voting Rep 70% voting Dem and 10% not voting. (It is reasonable to assume that scientists are more likely to vote than an average adult citizen and that "scientist" means working as a scientist or is a post-graduate in a science subject.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,607
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    So what if he is? 30% of the country are partisan Tories, voting Tory even in 1997 and 2001 (although to be fair to him BigG actually voted for New Labour at both those elections).

    Beyond a bit more testing the government has not done too badly relatively speaking anyway in terms of the pandemic
    The death count makes that judgement hard to sustain. But since you care more about Conservative electoral fortunes than a few thousand dead, that probably isn’t the metric you’re using.
    A death count per head lower than France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands and the increase in which fell yesterday does make that judgement possible to sustain
    This chart may help:

    https://twitter.com/James_Barr/status/1249616577961562112?s=19

    Comparing nations at different points on the curve is a fools game, particularly when different criteria are used for inclusion.

    On March 11 we had 6 UK deaths. Moving a few days back and forth in the curves starting points can produce any comparison you like.

    The real question is whether we made the right decisions at the right time, and how that influences what we do now. It is quite reasonable to argue that an earlier lock down would have been shorter. I suspect not politically possible though, which is where the politics intersects with the epidemiology.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,578
    Latest data.

    I look at these stats daily to assess how the curves are changing country by country and I'll continue to do so.

    But is it worth me publishing them every day or is it just cluttering up the threads?




  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Floater said:

    Bloody hell.....

    Police collect nearly 800 bodies from Ecuador's virus epicenter
    Ecuador said police have removed almost 800 bodies in recent weeks from homes in Guayaquil, the epicenter of the country's coronavirus outbreak, after the disease overwhelmed emergency services, hospitals and funeral parlours.

    Mortuary workers in the Pacific port city have been unable to cope with a backlog, with residents posting videos on social media showing abandoned bodies in the streets.

    "The number we have collected with the task force from people's homes exceeded 700 people," said Jorge Wated, who leads a team of police and military personnel created by the government to help with the chaos unleashed by Covid-19.

    He later said Sunday on Twitter that the joint task force, in operation for the past three weeks, had retrieved 771 bodies from homes and another 631 from hospitals, whose morgues are full.

    Wated did not specify the cause of death for the victims, 600 of whom have now been buried by the authorities.

    Ecuador has recorded 7,500 cases of the coronavirus since the first diagnosis was confirmed on February 29.

    Ok Eadric, you can have this one.

    "But it is no worse than seasonal flu"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    edited April 2020

    Does the left accept the concept of being 'necessarily excluded' for any other other group in any other context? I thought that inclusion and diversity were innate goods that must be enforced by policy - with quotas, if necessary - in areas where they do not naturally occur.

    Strange that right-wing representation should be the only exception, no?

    My point is the opposite. We should not shoehorn party politics into areas which have nothing to do with party politics. Nobody should be excluded from a discussion in the area of their expertise because of their politics. The valid exclusion is on the grounds of not having any expertise. It just so happens that this will in practice have a disproportionate impact on the Right.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,743
    kyf_100 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Been chatting to a Labour activist this morning, they still think they won the argument and Starmer will be a more presentable face to the same busted policies. If this is the thinking that Labour activists have then it's going to be a long road.

    Except of course, half the nation are now suckling on the government teat of furlough, soon to wind up on universal credit as the redundancies start coming in.

    Massive state intervention is here to stay, and is going to look a lot more popular for the forseeable future than it did in 2019.
    When the bill for all of the largesse comes due it's going to look a lot less popular. At the moment these are emergency measures in the middle of a global pandemic, most people understand that. If Labour thinks it can propose these policies outside of an unprecedented emergency then they deserve to stay in opposition, which is what will happen.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,519
    malcolmg said:

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi M2,6arquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
    where do you find all these moths, most I see are the ones that love my wife's cashmere sweaters
    malcy, there's 2,600 species of moth in the UK - and only 2 will chew clothes. They are both tiny, even for micro moths. If you can tell it is a moth with the naked eye, then the cashmere should be safe.

    The rest of your veg garden though? Maybe not so much.....

    Put out a bright light and white sheet behind it, on a warm still night without a full moon, and you shoud find plenty of moths. Any time between April and October.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Floater said:

    Bloody hell.....

    Police collect nearly 800 bodies from Ecuador's virus epicenter
    Ecuador said police have removed almost 800 bodies in recent weeks from homes in Guayaquil, the epicenter of the country's coronavirus outbreak, after the disease overwhelmed emergency services, hospitals and funeral parlours.

    Mortuary workers in the Pacific port city have been unable to cope with a backlog, with residents posting videos on social media showing abandoned bodies in the streets.

    "The number we have collected with the task force from people's homes exceeded 700 people," said Jorge Wated, who leads a team of police and military personnel created by the government to help with the chaos unleashed by Covid-19.

    He later said Sunday on Twitter that the joint task force, in operation for the past three weeks, had retrieved 771 bodies from homes and another 631 from hospitals, whose morgues are full.

    Wated did not specify the cause of death for the victims, 600 of whom have now been buried by the authorities.

    Ecuador has recorded 7,500 cases of the coronavirus since the first diagnosis was confirmed on February 29.

    Ok Eadric, you can have this one.

    And chucking corpses in the sea

    https://twitter.com/RestitutorOrien/status/1249623826616508418
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,797

    malcolmg said:

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi Marquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
    where do you find all these moths, most I see are the ones that love my wife's cashmere sweaters
    LOL.

    Purchase yourself a moth trap, Malc. You can amuse yourself for hours - even while observing lockdown.
    Just think what might be lurking in the dark in Ayrshire....

    https://www.angleps.com/mothtraps.php

    'Just think what might be lurking in the dark in Ayrshire....'

    Or read Tam 'O Shanter. Young ladies in very short skirts.
    A small but pedantic point, if I may: a sark is a shift or chemise (in the context of female dress, a shirt in a male dress context). Item 3 here refers.

    https://dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/sark

    So cutty sark = short chemise
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    HYUFD said:
    What was that about not having enough police to do their job?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,653
    Barnesian said:

    Latest data.

    I look at these stats daily to assess how the curves are changing country by country and I'll continue to do so.

    But is it worth me publishing them every day or is it just cluttering up the threads?




    Keep them coming
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,490
    Barnesian said:

    Latest data.

    I look at these stats daily to assess how the curves are changing country by country and I'll continue to do so.

    But is it worth me publishing them every day or is it just cluttering up the threads?




    Still worth it. It is information and it is up to us to decide its value. We can't do that if you don't post it. Thanks for doing this.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,745

    Your Moth du Jour - the Waved Umber.


    Hi Marquee

    Nice one. My moth du jour yesterday was - wait for it - a Sword Grass! Also got a Red Sword Grass which, I think, is a bit more common.

    10 species in total with Clouded Drab and Satellite both newbies as well.

    Lots of Hebrew Characters, Pine Beauties and Common Quakers.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-exsoleta
    Sword-grass is very rare in Devon - I had one last year, the first here for over a decade. Red Sword-grass is less scarce, but I have only had a couple. Both impressive beasties. The camouflage of the Red Sword-grass can be spectacular - just a piece of broken wood.

    https://ukmoths.org.uk/species/xylena-vetusta/#prettyPhoto
    They are impressive. I had them resting side-by-side which was a great way of seeing the differences, which are very obvious when they are together.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,519
    Barnesian said:

    Latest data.

    I look at these stats daily to assess how the curves are changing country by country and I'll continue to do so.

    But is it worth me publishing them every day or is it just cluttering up the threads?




    Publish and be damned....
  • Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Big G, your partisanship is becoming tiresome and dare I say it silly.

    I have been given a list of dangerously strenuous (for a man of my years) DIY and gardening tasks which I have been procrastinating over on account of NHS rationing and am barely a quarter through. Time to get to it I think!
    With respect you do not need to read my post

    And talking about 'silly' is a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'
    I always read your posts Big G. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. In my opinion you have turned the pro-Boris, pro- government rhetoric up to 11 in the last 24 hours.
    Right now Boris and HMG is key to this country's immediate future

    Of course I will support him and of course opponents will object

    It is called

    Politics




    Why do you support him “of course”?

    Oh, given you didn’t care that the government’s lack of pandemic preparedness may have cost untold lives, why am I asking that question?
    You throw away comments about respecting lives with utter disdain almost as an act of hate.

    It is sad and belittles you

    I care for every lost life and if you read my posts that is my constant theme together with compassion

    I’m afraid it isn’t. Your constant theme is a servile loyalty to the Conservative party, as illustrated by your hostility to the idea that pandemic preparedness might have been inadequate rather than look at the evidence. Better many people should die than a Conservative government should be seen to have been inadequate.
    I do not even know what you are talking about on the pandemic preparedness other than a report was given to Jeremy Hunt and he failed to action it.

    No doubt that is part of a conversation to be had at a later date but your hostility to the conservatives is coming from your hate of brexit which has poisioned your attitude to Boris and anything he does
    Big G. you would be the first to rightly call for the heads of Drakeford and Gethin if it turns out Covid-19 deaths in Wales occurred through their errors or negligence. You do not apply the same standards to Westminster.
    Drakeford and Sturgeon are part of Cobra headed by Boris and following the expert advice. I therefore support them all as they have no choice and if at some stage the advice was wrong then that will have to be addressed

    On covid I have no criticism of Sturgeon or Drakeford who have largely acted in sync with Boris
    Well I would. If the lack of PPE and testing contribute to any unnecessary deaths in Wales they should be vilified.
    Scotland and Wales have devolved health services so lots of variables will be in play but it is all so easy to attack those making life and death decisions from the comfort of one's own home
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,346


    If I've seen something interesting on the internet or I have a casual interest about something, and I am talking to a professional expert in the subject, I ask them questions about it. All have been delighted that one is showing an interest. Evidently you'd prefer the proles to shut up and not worry their heads about it.
    There is a clear and, frankly, obvious difference between 'being asked questions' and 'being lectured'.
    Indeed yes. In one of the areas I teach - New Testament Studies - there is a pianist called René Salm who has for years been arguing that Nazareth did not exist during the first century BC and down to 70 AD. Whenever anyone brings up archaeological evidence that proves him wrong, his immediate answer is to tell them they have dated it wrong, or made false assumptions about stratification, or that they are not experts in numismatics. So far, he has lectured Ken Dark of the University pf Reading, Ross Voss of Harvard, Stephen of the University of the Holy Land, and the entirety of the Israeli Archaeological Association.

    But what’s funny is how he’s never actually even been to Nazareth.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    Jonathan said:

    Sky just outed Prof John Ashton as a labour supporter and he really lost it, objecting that he was not a member of the labour party and has not been in the labour party for the last year.

    He asked Sky not to politicise this !!!

    Oh the irony

    This is the first time I have seen Sky declare the politics of those experts they interview and it is refreshing

    Feels like going down the Fox News route. Not good. Do we now have to question every expert affiliation and have Tory facts and Labour facts?
    Comparing Sky to Fox news is a nonsense

    It is correct for impartial broadcasting that those invited to express their opinion should be introduced on their political allegiance whether it be right, left or centre
    Can they please introduce Brendan O’Neill as ‘an idiot who claims to be a Marxist yet who promotes an agenda that is akin to the hard right’, please? Every time, so we can see him explode? Anyway, Ashton appears to have been much more accurate than most, so that’s all that matters. Have we got any further in having those members of SAGE who supported herd immunity exposed and sacked, yet? The media are not pursuing the people who made sure that we are weeks behind where we could have been. They must be held to account. It is, by far, the biggest scandal to have emerged and has likely cost thousands of lives.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    kinabalu said:

    Does the left accept the concept of being 'necessarily excluded' for any other other group in any other context? I thought that inclusion and diversity were innate goods that must be enforced by policy - with quotas, if necessary - in areas where they do not naturally occur.

    Strange that right-wing representation should be the only exception, no?

    My point is the opposite. We should not shoehorn party politics into areas which have nothing to do with party politics. So nobody should be excluded from a discussion in the area of their expertise on the grounds of their politics. The valid exclusion is on the grounds on not having any expertise. It just so happens that this will in practice have a disproportionate impact on the Right.
    Experts from both left and right certainly bring their politics to the table with their opinions don't be so damn naive. There are plenty of ways to present facts that whilst not untrue are definitely misleading. Knowing the affiliation is crucial to being fully informed.

    Example: An expert in renewable energy commenting on a new scheme will highlight some facts as more important than others or even omit others depending on whether they are an XR guy, a green party guy, a labour guy, or a tory guy.

    All the facts will be true. All will paint a different picture by what is omitted or downplayed.

    Anyone saying strong affiliation with an ideology is not important in experts and we don't need to know is basically saying "Hey we don't need full information"
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    edited April 2020
    Barnesian said:

    Latest data.

    I look at these stats daily to assess how the curves are changing country by country and I'll continue to do so.

    But is it worth me publishing them every day or is it just cluttering up the threads?




    Please carry on posting them, thank you.
    The are a good source of information, so long as we remember the short comings of the data. That is the data are real (ie dirty), recent (so contain some lags) and different countries count different things. However they are the best quality we get on a daily basis and in particular the curves are informative.

    Edited to point out we are in a 4 day bank holiday weekend for many of these countries so the figures are somewhat affected by this.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,346
    Anyway, I’ve just been out for my bike ride, and I’m quite pleased with myself because for once I made it all the way to Marquis Drive using the cycle trails from Hednesford without a single wrong turn.

    Nice and sunny but the wind is colder than Donald Trump’s heart. I was seriously wishing I had taken a jacket.

    The roads are very quiet. Between Marquis Drive and Cannock - which is the main road across Cannock Chase to Rugeley - I saw precisely one lorry and no cars at all.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    kyf_100 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Been chatting to a Labour activist this morning, they still think they won the argument and Starmer will be a more presentable face to the same busted policies. If this is the thinking that Labour activists have then it's going to be a long road.

    Except of course, half the nation are now suckling on the government teat of furlough, soon to wind up on universal credit as the redundancies start coming in.

    Massive state intervention is here to stay, and is going to look a lot more popular for the forseeable future than it did in 2019.
    Then the cold reality of paying for all this lands on peoples doorsteps and they think that spending this much outside of an emergency would be madness.
This discussion has been closed.