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  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    eristdoof said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Typical Guardian mistepresentation
    Our church us closed
    We talk by phone. Our vicar does a service online ..

    I will.never give the shitbag that is the Guardian a cent.
    No need to read the article. The Daily Mail type headline is typical of lazy journalism
    You don't have to give The Guardian a cent, it's not behind a paywall.

    Since you won't read the article you won't be able to point out its inaccuracies, but if you had read it you still wouldn't be able to find any either.
    It wont let me read it without paying. They can fuck off.
    Really?? Where are you?
    UKIP HQ :smiley:
    Lol but I woukdnt give ukip a cent either.
    Struggling to understand why you cannot see Guardian content for free - I can.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    IanB2 said:

    eristdoof said:

    IanB2 said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    It’s a balancing act, though, as there comes a point when powerful religion is able to inhibit free thinking and hence slow innovation and invention. Hence catholic Europe overtook the medieval Islamic world but was itself eclipsed by Protestant europe. Or compare North and South America.
    Yes I would agree. I'm thinking of much earlier, more like the time when farming and agriculture was taking hold.
    It was certainly key in bringing about the remarkable transformation from relatively equal and participatory hunter gatherer societies to empires with a few powerful wealthy rulers (appointed by god) and many slaves and serfs.
    I can't see how religion can be blamed for that tbh.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:
    Boris gets a bit of respect for me for soldering on and being notably chipper despite obviously being unwell.

    That's leadership. Like him or not.
    Yes but I did note @Foxy saying that when you got this it was very important to rest up and give your body every chance.
    I hope (for his sake) it's all for show and for national morale, and 99% of the time he's resting.

    People need to think their leaders are resilient and invulnerable.
    Sobering to think that, in about six/seven days, we will know whether the prime minister is likely to die, or not. Ditto the Health Secretary and the CMO.

    With all that means for the leadership of the UK.
    Give it a rest!
    Er, it’s true?

    Statistically, Matt Hanckok is extremely likely to survive, and Boris Johnson is very likely. But there is an unignorable risk that the PM will not.

    Or would you rather we ignore it?

    This site deals with data, not wishful dreams.
    Data? The statistics you have dreamed up over the last few weeks are very much on the outlier side of expectations.

    And I do take the situation seriously.
    Here you go. The death rate for corona sufferers over 50 is 1.3%. Given that Boris has two other significant and relevant conditions: being male (men are 50% more likely to die than women) and being overweight (we know it is material, we just don’t know how much yet), that puts him in my 2-4% category of possible death.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
    Surely by being in the fraction that display symptoms that increases the likelihood?
    Possibly. Not sure if the data sourced by worldometer distinguishes between symptomatic and non-symptomatic

    I know that if I get this, as a 50-something male, with no underlying conditions, I immediately have about a 1 in 50 chance of dying. If I go into a British ICU (after the standard but unlucky and deteriorating 7-8 day progression) I then have a 1 in 2 chance of dying.
    Isn't the 1 in 50 a yearly risk? Whereas the ICU Covid sufferer is lets be generous a 1 in 10 chance of dying within 2 weeks?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:
    Boris gets a bit of respect for me for soldering on and being notably chipper despite obviously being unwell.

    That's leadership. Like him or not.
    Yes but I did note @Foxy saying that when you got this it was very important to rest up and give your body every chance.
    I hope (for his sake) it's all for show and for national morale, and 99% of the time he's resting.

    People need to think their leaders are resilient and invulnerable.
    Sobering to think that, in about six/seven days, we will know whether the prime minister is likely to die, or not. Ditto the Health Secretary and the CMO.

    With all that means for the leadership of the UK.
    Give it a rest!
    Er, it’s true?

    Statistically, Matt Hanckok is extremely likely to survive, and Boris Johnson is very likely. But there is an unignorable risk that the PM will not.

    Or would you rather we ignore it?

    This site deals with data, not wishful dreams.
    Data? The statistics you have dreamed up over the last few weeks are very much on the outlier side of expectations.

    And I do take the situation seriously.
    Here you go. The death rate for corona sufferers over 50 is 1.3%. Given that Boris has two other significant and relevant conditions: being male (men are 50% more likely to die than women) and being overweight (we know it is material, we just don’t know how much yet), that puts him in my 2-4% category of possible death.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
    But the male-female thing appears to derive mostly from lifestyle: smoking, drinking, poor hygiene, and recklessness. Johnson certainly ticks the last, and probably the second last, but not the first.
    3 out of 4 icu admissions in Sweden are of men, but slightly more women than men smoke (10% vs 8 %)

    https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/nastan-8-av-10-av-de-svarast-sjuka-i-sverige-ar-man

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_in_Sweden
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    eristdoof said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:
    Boris gets a bit of respect for me for soldering on and being notably chipper despite obviously being unwell.

    That's leadership. Like him or not.
    Yes but I did note @Foxy saying that when you got this it was very important to rest up and give your body every chance.
    I hope (for his sake) it's all for show and for national morale, and 99% of the time he's resting.

    People need to think their leaders are resilient and invulnerable.
    Sobering to think that, in about six/seven days, we will know whether the prime minister is likely to die, or not. Ditto the Health Secretary and the CMO.

    With all that means for the leadership of the UK.
    Give it a rest!
    Er, it’s true?

    Statistically, Matt Hanckok is extremely likely to survive, and Boris Johnson is very likely. But there is an unignorable risk that the PM will not.

    Or would you rather we ignore it?

    This site deals with data, not wishful dreams.
    Data? The statistics you have dreamed up over the last few weeks are very much on the outlier side of expectations.

    And I do take the situation seriously.
    Here you go. The death rate for corona sufferers over 50 is 1.3%. Given that Boris has two other significant and relevant conditions: being male (men are 50% more likely to die than women) and being overweight (we know it is material, we just don’t know how much yet), that puts him in my 2-4% category of possible death.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
    Surely by being in the fraction that display symptoms that increases the likelihood?
    Possibly. Not sure if the data sourced by worldometer distinguishes between symptomatic and non-symptomatic

    I know that if I get this, as a 50-something male, with no underlying conditions, I immediately have about a 1 in 50 chance of dying. If I go into a British ICU (after the standard but unlucky and deteriorating 7-8 day progression) I then have a 1 in 2 chance of dying.
    Isn't the 1 in 50 a yearly risk? Whereas the ICU Covid sufferer is lets be generous a 1 in 10 chance of dying within 2 weeks?
    According to R4 More or Less, getting the virus this year pretty much doubles the chance you already had of dying during 2020, whatever age you are.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    Religion was invented by the ancient elite to scare the plebs out of nicking their stuff.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    eristdoof said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Typical Guardian mistepresentation
    Our church us closed
    We talk by phone. Our vicar does a service online ..

    I will.never give the shitbag that is the Guardian a cent.
    No need to read the article. The Daily Mail type headline is typical of lazy journalism
    You don't have to give The Guardian a cent, it's not behind a paywall.

    Since you won't read the article you won't be able to point out its inaccuracies, but if you had read it you still wouldn't be able to find any either.
    It wont let me read it without paying. They can fuck off.
    Really?? Where are you?
    UKIP HQ :smiley:
    Lol but I woukdnt give ukip a cent either.
    Struggling to understand why you cannot see Guardian content for free - I can.
    And it’s often value for money too!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    eristdoof said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Typical Guardian mistepresentation
    Our church us closed
    We talk by phone. Our vicar does a service online ..

    I will.never give the shitbag that is the Guardian a cent.
    No need to read the article. The Daily Mail type headline is typical of lazy journalism
    You don't have to give The Guardian a cent, it's not behind a paywall.

    Since you won't read the article you won't be able to point out its inaccuracies, but if you had read it you still wouldn't be able to find any either.
    It wont let me read it without paying. They can fuck off.
    Really?? Where are you?
    UKIP HQ :smiley:
    Lol but I woukdnt give ukip a cent either.
    Struggling to understand why you cannot see Guardian content for free - I can.
    I am on android. I get a yellow screen with option of donate or subscribe.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    egg said:

    Nigelb said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Thought it was coping OK with quarantine.

    Then I caught myself thinking, "Maybe I should watch The Phantom Menace"

    Seriously worried now

    You know it has got really bad when you feel like watching the Hans Solo movie. And definitely call 999 if you feel an urge to listen to Radiohead live at Glastonbury.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d9S5FCThro

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98OugtctqTo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pOfAv9gQzs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11TsQwzA_XA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx0uqjTIBHA

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:
    Boris gets a bit of respect for me for soldering on and being notably chipper despite obviously being unwell.

    That's leadership. Like him or not.
    Yes but I did note @Foxy saying that when you got this it was very important to rest up and give your body every chance.
    I hope (for his sake) it's all for show and for national morale, and 99% of the time he's resting.

    People need to think their leaders are resilient and invulnerable.
    Sobering to think that, in about six/seven days, we will know whether the prime minister is likely to die, or not. Ditto the Health Secretary and the CMO.

    With all that means for the leadership of the UK.
    Give it a rest!
    Er, it’s true?

    Statistically, Matt Hanckok is extremely likely to survive, and Boris Johnson is very likely. But there is an unignorable risk that the PM will not.

    Or would you rather we ignore it?

    This site deals with data, not wishful dreams.
    Data? The statistics you have dreamed up over the last few weeks are very much on the outlier side of expectations.

    And I do take the situation seriously.
    Here you go. The death rate for corona sufferers over 50 is 1.3%. Given that Boris has two other significant and relevant conditions: being male (men are 50% more likely to die than women) and being overweight (we know it is material, we just don’t know how much yet), that puts him in my 2-4% category of possible death.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
    But the male-female thing appears to derive mostly from lifestyle: smoking, drinking, poor hygiene, and recklessness. Johnson certainly ticks the last, and probably the second last, but not the first.
    3 out of 4 icu admissions in Sweden are of men, but slightly more women than men smoke (10% vs 8 %)

    https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/nastan-8-av-10-av-de-svarast-sjuka-i-sverige-ar-man

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_in_Sweden
    Yes, but the key “underlying medical conditions” we keep hearing about have heart problems at the top of the list, which is very male dominated. Even diabetes now has a slight male bias. Plus alcohol related illnesses.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    eristdoof said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Typical Guardian mistepresentation
    Our church us closed
    We talk by phone. Our vicar does a service online ..

    I will.never give the shitbag that is the Guardian a cent.
    No need to read the article. The Daily Mail type headline is typical of lazy journalism
    You don't have to give The Guardian a cent, it's not behind a paywall.

    Since you won't read the article you won't be able to point out its inaccuracies, but if you had read it you still wouldn't be able to find any either.
    It wont let me read it without paying. They can fuck off.
    Really?? Where are you?
    UKIP HQ :smiley:
    Lol but I woukdnt give ukip a cent either.
    Struggling to understand why you cannot see Guardian content for free - I can.
    I am on android. I get a yellow screen with option of donate or subscribe.
    Just click the small x to close that box, and the article is beneath
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IanB2 said:

    eristdoof said:

    IanB2 said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    It’s a balancing act, though, as there comes a point when powerful religion is able to inhibit free thinking and hence slow innovation and invention. Hence catholic Europe overtook the medieval Islamic world but was itself eclipsed by Protestant europe. Or compare North and South America.
    Yes I would agree. I'm thinking of much earlier, more like the time when farming and agriculture was taking hold.
    It was certainly key in bringing about the remarkable transformation from relatively equal and participatory hunter gatherer societies to empires with a few powerful wealthy rulers (appointed by god) and many slaves and serfs.
    I can't see how religion can be blamed for that tbh.
    I prefer the thesis that wheat is in the dock: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Against-Grain-History-Earliest-States/dp/0300182910
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:
    Boris gets a bit of respect for me for soldering on and being notably chipper despite obviously being unwell.

    That's leadership. Like him or not.
    Yes but I did note @Foxy saying that when you got this it was very important to rest up and give your body every chance.
    I hope (for his sake) it's all for show and for national morale, and 99% of the time he's resting.

    People need to think their leaders are resilient and invulnerable.
    Sobering to think that, in about six/seven days, we will know whether the prime minister is likely to die, or not. Ditto the Health Secretary and the CMO.

    With all that means for the leadership of the UK.
    Give it a rest!
    Er, it’s true?

    Statistically, Matt Hanckok is extremely likely to survive, and Boris Johnson is very likely. But there is an unignorable risk that the PM will not.

    Or would you rather we ignore it?

    This site deals with data, not wishful dreams.
    Data? The statistics you have dreamed up over the last few weeks are very much on the outlier side of expectations.

    And I do take the situation seriously.
    Here you go. The death rate for corona sufferers over 50 is 1.3%. Given that Boris has two other significant and relevant conditions: being male (men are 50% more likely to die than women) and being overweight (we know it is material, we just don’t know how much yet), that puts him in my 2-4% category of possible death.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
    But the male-female thing appears to derive mostly from lifestyle: smoking, drinking, poor hygiene, and recklessness. Johnson certainly ticks the last, and probably the second last, but not the first.
    3 out of 4 icu admissions in Sweden are of men, but slightly more women than men smoke (10% vs 8 %)

    https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/nastan-8-av-10-av-de-svarast-sjuka-i-sverige-ar-man

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_in_Sweden
    Yes, but the key “underlying medical conditions” we keep hearing about have heart problems at the top of the list, which is very male dominated. Even diabetes now has a slight male bias. Plus alcohol related illnesses.
    And high blood pressure.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    eristdoof said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Typical Guardian mistepresentation
    Our church us closed
    We talk by phone. Our vicar does a service online ..

    I will.never give the shitbag that is the Guardian a cent.
    No need to read the article. The Daily Mail type headline is typical of lazy journalism
    You don't have to give The Guardian a cent, it's not behind a paywall.

    Since you won't read the article you won't be able to point out its inaccuracies, but if you had read it you still wouldn't be able to find any either.
    It wont let me read it without paying. They can fuck off.
    Really?? Where are you?
    UKIP HQ :smiley:
    Lol but I woukdnt give ukip a cent either.
    Struggling to understand why you cannot see Guardian content for free - I can.
    I am on android. I get a yellow screen with option of donate or subscribe.
    You mean the one with the little X in the top right-hand corner?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
    It is the benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent entity that allows excruciating pain to innocent children to give us free will FFS.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited March 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    eristdoof said:

    IanB2 said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    It’s a balancing act, though, as there comes a point when powerful religion is able to inhibit free thinking and hence slow innovation and invention. Hence catholic Europe overtook the medieval Islamic world but was itself eclipsed by Protestant europe. Or compare North and South America.
    Yes I would agree. I'm thinking of much earlier, more like the time when farming and agriculture was taking hold.
    It was certainly key in bringing about the remarkable transformation from relatively equal and participatory hunter gatherer societies to empires with a few powerful wealthy rulers (appointed by god) and many slaves and serfs.
    I can't see how religion can be blamed for that tbh.
    I prefer the thesis that wheat is in the dock: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Against-Grain-History-Earliest-States/dp/0300182910
    Yes, I think this is Jared Diamond's thesis in Guns, Germs, and Steel.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
    It is the benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent entity that allows excruciating pain to innocent children to give us free will FFS.
    I do think it is possible that there are alien intelligences in the universe that, to our puny minds, are omniscient and omnipotent but I do not believe they are benevolent.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    eristdoof said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Typical Guardian mistepresentation
    Our church us closed
    We talk by phone. Our vicar does a service online ..

    I will.never give the shitbag that is the Guardian a cent.
    No need to read the article. The Daily Mail type headline is typical of lazy journalism
    You don't have to give The Guardian a cent, it's not behind a paywall.

    Since you won't read the article you won't be able to point out its inaccuracies, but if you had read it you still wouldn't be able to find any either.
    It wont let me read it without paying. They can fuck off.
    Really?? Where are you?
    UKIP HQ :smiley:
    Lol but I woukdnt give ukip a cent either.
    Struggling to understand why you cannot see Guardian content for free - I can.
    I am on android. I get a yellow screen with option of donate or subscribe.
    You mean the one with the little X in the top right-hand corner?
    As he really doesn’t love the Guardian, that’s not an option...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
    It is the benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent entity that allows excruciating pain to innocent children to give us free will FFS.
    I do think it is possible that there are alien intelligences in the universe that, to our puny minds, are omniscient and omnipotent but I do not believe they are benevolent.
    But it’s equally possible they are, perhaps ?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    egg said:

    egg said:

    Nigelb said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Thought it was coping OK with quarantine.

    Then I caught myself thinking, "Maybe I should watch The Phantom Menace"

    Seriously worried now

    You know it has got really bad when you feel like watching the Hans Solo movie. And definitely call 999 if you feel an urge to listen to Radiohead live at Glastonbury.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d9S5FCThro

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98OugtctqTo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pOfAv9gQzs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11TsQwzA_XA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx0uqjTIBHA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLDsE0AJxQY

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Nigelb said:

    eristdoof said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Typical Guardian mistepresentation
    Our church us closed
    We talk by phone. Our vicar does a service online ..

    I will.never give the shitbag that is the Guardian a cent.
    No need to read the article. The Daily Mail type headline is typical of lazy journalism
    You don't have to give The Guardian a cent, it's not behind a paywall.

    Since you won't read the article you won't be able to point out its inaccuracies, but if you had read it you still wouldn't be able to find any either.
    It wont let me read it without paying. They can fuck off.
    Really?? Where are you?
    UKIP HQ :smiley:
    Lol but I woukdnt give ukip a cent either.
    Struggling to understand why you cannot see Guardian content for free - I can.
    I am on android. I get a yellow screen with option of donate or subscribe.
    You mean the one with the little X in the top right-hand corner?
    As he really doesn’t love the Guardian, that’s not an option...
    I appreciate it must be a difficult puzzle for him to solve :wink:
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Brave Boris to slay the Thatcher 'No such thing as society' shibboleth.

    I'm beginning to think this virus is going to be the making of Johnson as a great Prime Minister. The one thing he absolutely must do is sack Cummings. Boris can cut himself free of the petty-minded Cummings and be his own man now and rise to be one of the greats.

    This isn't parody. I'm impressed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    eristdoof said:

    IanB2 said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    It’s a balancing act, though, as there comes a point when powerful religion is able to inhibit free thinking and hence slow innovation and invention. Hence catholic Europe overtook the medieval Islamic world but was itself eclipsed by Protestant europe. Or compare North and South America.
    Yes I would agree. I'm thinking of much earlier, more like the time when farming and agriculture was taking hold.
    It was certainly key in bringing about the remarkable transformation from relatively equal and participatory hunter gatherer societies to empires with a few powerful wealthy rulers (appointed by god) and many slaves and serfs.
    I can't see how religion can be blamed for that tbh.
    Religion and inequality have gone hand in hand throughout history. The correlation survives through to the modern day.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
    It is the one that we are indoctrinated into that we then escape from that we disbelieve. I say this as a Catholic Atheist.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    eristdoof said:

    IanB2 said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    It’s a balancing act, though, as there comes a point when powerful religion is able to inhibit free thinking and hence slow innovation and invention. Hence catholic Europe overtook the medieval Islamic world but was itself eclipsed by Protestant europe. Or compare North and South America.
    Yes I would agree. I'm thinking of much earlier, more like the time when farming and agriculture was taking hold.
    It was certainly key in bringing about the remarkable transformation from relatively equal and participatory hunter gatherer societies to empires with a few powerful wealthy rulers (appointed by god) and many slaves and serfs.
    I can't see how religion can be blamed for that tbh.
    Religion and inequality have gone hand in hand throughout history. The correlation survives through to the modern day.
    Yes indeed, but which is the cause and which the effect?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    Nigelb said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
    It is the benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent entity that allows excruciating pain to innocent children to give us free will FFS.
    I do think it is possible that there are alien intelligences in the universe that, to our puny minds, are omniscient and omnipotent but I do not believe they are benevolent.
    But it’s equally possible they are, perhaps ?
    No. If they were all-knowing and all-powerful and benevolent they wouldn't allow the pain that innocents suffer. It is the problem of evil. The "get out" for religionists is that is it is a consequence of free will. Sort it out for God's sake if you are omnipotent!
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Barnesian said:


    It is the benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent entity that allows excruciating pain to innocent children to give us free will FFS.

    Clearly no benevolent deity would have allowed Hawaiian pizza to come into existence. Therefore, any god is either a total ****, or doesn't exist.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    Nigelb said:

    eristdoof said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Typical Guardian mistepresentation
    Our church us closed
    We talk by phone. Our vicar does a service online ..

    I will.never give the shitbag that is the Guardian a cent.
    No need to read the article. The Daily Mail type headline is typical of lazy journalism
    You don't have to give The Guardian a cent, it's not behind a paywall.

    Since you won't read the article you won't be able to point out its inaccuracies, but if you had read it you still wouldn't be able to find any either.
    It wont let me read it without paying. They can fuck off.
    Really?? Where are you?
    UKIP HQ :smiley:
    Lol but I woukdnt give ukip a cent either.
    Struggling to understand why you cannot see Guardian content for free - I can.
    I am on android. I get a yellow screen with option of donate or subscribe.
    You mean the one with the little X in the top right-hand corner?
    As he really doesn’t love the Guardian, that’s not an option...
    I appreciate it must be a difficult puzzle for him to solve :wink:
    Go suck a.lemon. there is no x or i would have used it
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
    It is the one that we are indoctrinated into that we then escape from that we disbelieve. I say this as a Catholic Atheist.
    As a Catholic Atheist I remember that God. I think it is question 17 in the Catholic Catechism. What is God? "God is the supreme spirit who alone exists of himself and is infinite in all perfections."

    I remember it well more than 60 years later because the Irish Christian Brothers who taught me beat with a thick leather strap until I was word perfect.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Andrew said:

    Barnesian said:


    It is the benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent entity that allows excruciating pain to innocent children to give us free will FFS.

    Clearly no benevolent deity would have allowed Hawaiian pizza to come into existence. Therefore, any god is either a total ****, or doesn't exist.
    Pineapple on pizza was surely the Devil's work, not God's?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited March 2020
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    eadric said:

    Message from a friend in New Orleans


    “Day nine of two weeks isolation, Lindsey is five days behind that (isolated in a different part of the house). I’m feeling ok but the situation in Nola is awful. Way worse than New York but not being covered in the media. We have a dem governor so trump will make him kiss his boots before sending ventilators...”

    The most dangerous thing about Donald Trump is not his lying, or his preening. It's his division of the United States into those who are his people, and whose who are not.

    I don't think there's been a President in the last 100 years who has thought like he has.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
    It is the one that we are indoctrinated into that we then escape from that we disbelieve. I say this as a Catholic Atheist.
    As a Catholic Atheist I remember that God. I think it is question 17 in the Catholic Catechism. What is God? "God is the supreme spirit who alone exists of himself and is infinite in all perfections."

    I remember it well more than 60 years later because the Irish Christian Brothers who taught me beat with a thick leather strap until I was word perfect.
    Is there a more confirmed atheist than a Catholic one ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
    It is the one that we are indoctrinated into that we then escape from that we disbelieve. I say this as a Catholic Atheist.
    As a Catholic Atheist I remember that God. I think it is question 17 in the Catholic Catechism. What is God? "God is the supreme spirit who alone exists of himself and is infinite in all perfections."

    I remember it well more than 60 years later because the Irish Christian Brothers who taught me beat with a thick leather strap until I was word perfect.
    Christian values, eh?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    I have no idea how other cities look, but the effect on Birmingham centre of this pandemic is simply astonishing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=174&v=J9svrUUeIJ8
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    The US predicted a ventilator shortage over a decade back....

    The U.S. Tried to Build a New Fleet of Ventilators. The Mission Failed.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    Nigelb said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
    It is the one that we are indoctrinated into that we then escape from that we disbelieve. I say this as a Catholic Atheist.
    As a Catholic Atheist I remember that God. I think it is question 17 in the Catholic Catechism. What is God? "God is the supreme spirit who alone exists of himself and is infinite in all perfections."

    I remember it well more than 60 years later because the Irish Christian Brothers who taught me beat with a thick leather strap until I was word perfect.
    Is there a more confirmed atheist than a Catholic one ?
    That would be an ecumenical matter.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    edited March 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Darwinism in action.
    A theory of mine* is that religion became successful in the first place is because of social darwinism. Populations are more likely to be sucessful are ones with a reasonable level of compliance such as not stealing or killing and general obeying laws. A population with religion obtians this level of compliance quicker.


    *but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have come up with it
    There is that, but also the altruism and collective actions of religion foster civilisation.

    I have never had a problem with Darwinism. I think God is clever enough to create systems that improve themselves.
    Yes sorry I wanted to keep the post short, I agree the altruism and community in a religion is also a social Darwinian driver.

    I also do not see Darwinism and Christianity as mutually exclusive. And I know plenty of Christians who believe in both. Sadly there are scientists who think that almost all Christians are anti-Darwinists, because those are the ones who make the most noise.
    I know. Atheists are usually very certain of which god they dont believe in.
    It is the one that we are indoctrinated into that we then escape from that we disbelieve. I say this as a Catholic Atheist.
    As a Catholic Atheist I remember that God. I think it is question 17 in the Catholic Catechism. What is God? "God is the supreme spirit who alone exists of himself and is infinite in all perfections."

    I remember it well more than 60 years later because the Irish Christian Brothers who taught me beat with a thick leather strap until I was word perfect.
    Is there a more confirmed atheist than a Catholic one ?
    Probably not :) I'm not bitter. I actually enjoyed school and I think the Catholism has informed my own personal morality which is good. I'm comfortable with that. But I certainly don't believe in a personal God that you pray to and have a personal relationship with. I think it is rather child-like. By the age of 7, 65% of children will have had an imaginary friend.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:
    Boris gets a bit of respect for me for soldering on and being notably chipper despite obviously being unwell.

    That's leadership. Like him or not.
    Yes but I did note @Foxy saying that when you got this it was very important to rest up and give your body every chance.
    I hope (for his sake) it's all for show and for national morale, and 99% of the time he's resting.

    People need to think their leaders are resilient and invulnerable.
    Sobering to think that, in about six/seven days, we will know whether the prime minister is likely to die, or not. Ditto the Health Secretary and the CMO.

    With all that means for the leadership of the UK.
    Give it a rest!
    Er, it’s true?

    Statistically, Matt Hanckok is extremely likely to survive, and Boris Johnson is very likely. But there is an unignorable risk that the PM will not.

    Or would you rather we ignore it?

    This site deals with data, not wishful dreams.
    While your numbers might be true for a random 55 year old, they are probably not true for the Prime Minister.

    A random 55 year old would probably not have got tested so early, and would probably not be so closely monitored. If it comes to getting a ventilator, I think we know that Boris isn't going to wait in a crowded hospital corridor, or be put in an overflow hospital.

    I would reckon his chance of death from this is probably comfortably under 1%.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I see burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    Floater said:

    I see burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy

    Every cloud...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:
    Boris gets a bit of respect for me for soldering on and being notably chipper despite obviously being unwell.

    That's leadership. Like him or not.
    Yes but I did note @Foxy saying that when you got this it was very important to rest up and give your body every chance.
    I hope (for his sake) it's all for show and for national morale, and 99% of the time he's resting.

    People need to think their leaders are resilient and invulnerable.
    Sobering to think that, in about six/seven days, we will know whether the prime minister is likely to die, or not. Ditto the Health Secretary and the CMO.

    With all that means for the leadership of the UK.
    Give it a rest!
    Er, it’s true?

    Statistically, Matt Hanckok is extremely likely to survive, and Boris Johnson is very likely. But there is an unignorable risk that the PM will not.

    Or would you rather we ignore it?

    This site deals with data, not wishful dreams.
    Data? The statistics you have dreamed up over the last few weeks are very much on the outlier side of expectations.

    And I do take the situation seriously.
    Here you go. The death rate for corona sufferers over 50 is 1.3%. Given that Boris has two other significant and relevant conditions: being male (men are 50% more likely to die than women) and being overweight (we know it is material, we just don’t know how much yet), that puts him in my 2-4% category of possible death.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
    As I'm on this...

    The 2.3% death rate is based on diagnosed cases. Most people with CV-19, perhaps like your goodself, have not been diagnosed. You know, as well as I do, that except in Germany, then unless you are extremely symptomatic then you will not get tested, and you will not get added to the statistics.

    That's not true for the PM.

    I suspect that, along with all the members of the cabinet, he has been tested while either asymptomatic, or while having only modest symptoms. It is likely therefore that his likelihood of expiring is maybe a third of the headline 2-3%, even before we talk about his quality of care.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    Floater said:

    I see burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy

    It's more that someone wants you to think that burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy.
  • Floater said:

    I see burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy

    It's more that someone wants you to think that burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy.
    Waste of good bog paper..... :D
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    Advert for Velux on Sky News: "We spend so much of our time indoors..."

    No shit!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    edited March 2020

    Floater said:

    I see burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy

    Every cloud...
    ....has a good chance of being caused by an EU flag bonfire?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Is it me, or does Trump look a little bit breathless?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250

    Brave Boris to slay the Thatcher 'No such thing as society' shibboleth.

    I'm beginning to think this virus is going to be the making of Johnson as a great Prime Minister. The one thing he absolutely must do is sack Cummings. Boris can cut himself free of the petty-minded Cummings and be his own man now and rise to be one of the greats.

    This isn't parody. I'm impressed.

    That claim about Thatcher is a myth.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    I see burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy

    It's more that someone wants you to think that burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy.
    So its always been a thing?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Floater said:

    I see burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy

    It's been very cold there lately....
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited March 2020
    Floater said:

    I see burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy

    EU flags don't burn because Brussels fire safety rules.

    https://youtu.be/ruBfCWZbDT4
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709

    Is it me, or does Trump look a little bit breathless?

    I like the way he pronounces Mike Kaufmann's surname like 'cough man'.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    I see burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy

    It's more that someone wants you to think that burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy.
    So its always been a thing?
    I must admit that if I was breaking curfew in Italy, the last thing I'd want to do is burn a flag.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    I see burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy

    It's more that someone wants you to think that burning the EU flag is now a thing in Italy.
    So its always been a thing?
    I must admit that if I was breaking curfew in Italy, the last thing I'd want to do is burn a flag.
    Some of them are burning small ones indoors ... each to their own
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    rcs1000 said:

    eadric said:

    Message from a friend in New Orleans


    “Day nine of two weeks isolation, Lindsey is five days behind that (isolated in a different part of the house). I’m feeling ok but the situation in Nola is awful. Way worse than New York but not being covered in the media. We have a dem governor so trump will make him kiss his boots before sending ventilators...”

    The most dangerous thing about Donald Trump is not his lying, or his preening. It's his division of the United States into those who are his people, and whose who are not.

    I don't think there's been a President in the last 100 years who has thought like he has.
    Depressing.

    I read that the likelihood is that Blue states will be battered far more than Red states, allowing Trump's fans to wonder what all the fuss was about.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    rcs1000 said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:
    Boris gets a bit of respect for me for soldering on and being notably chipper despite obviously being unwell.

    That's leadership. Like him or not.
    Yes but I did note @Foxy saying that when you got this it was very important to rest up and give your body every chance.
    I hope (for his sake) it's all for show and for national morale, and 99% of the time he's resting.

    People need to think their leaders are resilient and invulnerable.
    Sobering to think that, in about six/seven days, we will know whether the prime minister is likely to die, or not. Ditto the Health Secretary and the CMO.

    With all that means for the leadership of the UK.
    Give it a rest!
    Er, it’s true?

    Statistically, Matt Hanckok is extremely likely to survive, and Boris Johnson is very likely. But there is an unignorable risk that the PM will not.

    Or would you rather we ignore it?

    This site deals with data, not wishful dreams.
    While your numbers might be true for a random 55 year old, they are probably not true for the Prime Minister.

    A random 55 year old would probably not have got tested so early, and would probably not be so closely monitored. If it comes to getting a ventilator, I think we know that Boris isn't going to wait in a crowded hospital corridor, or be put in an overflow hospital.

    I would reckon his chance of death from this is probably comfortably under 1%.
    Ironically he survives corona virus, and bounces back leaner, tidier, more moderate in ideology, with a new chief spad who is 100% human.

    But then his heart gives out when Sunak shows him the bill.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    edited March 2020

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Typical Guardian mistepresentation
    Our church us closed
    We talk by phone. Our vicar does a service online ..

    I will.never give the shitbag that is the Guardian a cent.
    No need to read the article. The Daily Mail type headline is typical of lazy journalism
    You don't have to give The Guardian a cent, it's not behind a paywall.

    Since you won't read the article you won't be able to point out its inaccuracies, but if you had read it you still wouldn't be able to find any either.
    I read it - quite ironic.

    Guardian geography seems to be up there with their Maths and their Journalism.

    "All over the world" they quote seems to consist of a couple of churches in Moscow, a few in Brazil, one in Georgia and one in Romania. Even the piece acknowledges that they are a few examples and lists others that are closed.

    Apparently in Guardian geography most of the continents do not exist.

    Classic Guardian dishonest (or thick) journalism giving a misleading impression, when they know only the misleading headline reaches a lot of readers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Churchgoers all over world ignore physical distancing advice
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-ignore-social-distance-advice

    (Not my mum.)

    Typical Guardian mistepresentation
    Our church us closed
    We talk by phone. Our vicar does a service online ..

    I will.never give the shitbag that is the Guardian a cent.
    No need to read the article. The Daily Mail type headline is typical of lazy journalism
    You don't have to give The Guardian a cent, it's not behind a paywall.

    Since you won't read the article you won't be able to point out its inaccuracies, but if you had read it you still wouldn't be able to find any either.
    I read it - quite ironic.

    Guardian geography seems to be up there with their Maths and their Journalism.

    "All over the world" they quote seems to consist of a couple of churches in Moscow, a few in Brazil, one in Georgia and one in Romania. Even the piece acknowledges that they are a few examples and lists others that are closed.

    Apparently in Guardian geography most of the continents do not exist.

    Classic Guardian dishonest (or thick) journalism giving a misleading impression, when they know only the misleading headline reaches a lot of readers.
    Show me a paper that doesn't do that.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    NEW THREAD
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    edited March 2020
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570
    Damn that really would be terrible. I rate Angel From Montgomery as perhaps one of the greatest songs ever written.
This discussion has been closed.