You're all a load of snowflakes. A 2% fatality rate, it's a pussy. Come and have a go if you think … etc. I'm over 70 now and I remember pneumonia being called "old man's friend".
I thought WHO were only fretting about Africa - where the effects might be magnified. Whatever happened to the stiff upper lip?
You should know better than to write this kind of fact-light scaremongering article on this platform
Covid-19 is an nv coronavirus. These are well known. Zoonosis is a well understood phenomenon. Contagion in China was bad in one province because the Wuhan politicians were idiots.
The Diamond Princess contagion rates are pleasingly low given that they are in a confirmed area with vectors that can transmit the virus between passengers
In the U.K. 8 of the 9 infected individuals have already been released from hospital.
Fundamentally this is less severe but more contagious than SARS. We are going to be fine.
I have no problem with the article but I share your (relatively) sunny side up view of this. That said, I freely confess to zero expertise on the subject.
In terms of containing the thing if it kicked off here. Does the UK have the social capital and trust in government to put up with a draconian containment policy? Does the US under Trump?
The UK is particularly well positioned to deal with large epidemics precisely because of the the centralised health system. Insurance based systems might have more money per patient (under non-pandemic situations) but the fragmented control makes it much harder to implement a coordinated emergency response, and the cost of such a response is much higher. The government is in a much better position to say "we will provide 100 Million for the emergency response" than two hundred private and not-for-profit health insurance companies each to say "we will provide half a million"
When it will be time to panic is when the first Mars explorers come home. I've seen Species 2, I know how it goes down. A shame it already exists or it would have made a good one for Sean to write.
Anyway, this morning's ringside seat is watching Matthew Goodwin and Rob Ford, co-authors of "Revolt On The Right", knocking seven bells out of each other on Twitter about immigration. It's getting perilously close to History Today.
As it happens, I have a cold at the moment. I had a double seat to myself this morning on a crowded train. The guy who sat down next to me thought better of it after a few minutes.
#itsprobablynotcovid19
My wife is Chinese so I have quite the dilemma. Decamp for a while or stay and tough it out?
I'm over 70 now and I remember pneumonia being called "old man's friend".
In my lifetime it was also common to pollute the air with lead and to smoke indoors with children present. That pneumonia had a cute name does not mean we shouldn't prevent people of dying from it.
The fatality rate of COVID19 for those between 70 and 79 years old is at the moment 8%. Are you prepared to roll two dice and you die if you roll a 2 or 3? I though not.
Good thread. I think even in your best case scenario there is going to be a long lasting scarring effect. The Higher Education system is particularly exposed now to Chinese students. The enormous building of luxury student accommodation is looking a bit of a nightmare for those investors.
I'd say it has the potential to seriously put globalisation into decline. That's the best case.. I'm puzzled how Moonshine is claiming the balance of data shows this is all going to be OK. Please can you point us in the direction of this data?
.
A post with some insight into how the CCP operates - millions could die and they won’t give a shit as long as the CCP remains the ultimate power. Have you had the displeasure of living in China?
That said, the cancelling of the big party meetings next month doesn’t help the argument that everything’s getting better, suggesting, “go back to work it’s perfectly safe for the workers, but not for the leaders”.
Serious questions need to be asked of that chap from Imperial College with his "400k UK deaths" scaremongering on live tv.
That is more or less in line with the figures in my Trusts pandemic Flu plan. It makes grim reading.
The question is how many asymptomatic patients there have been to calculate the mortality rate. We don't know yet.
I don't suffer from COPD or asthma, but if it's got my number on it, I've had my three score and ten. I survived October 27th 1962 - now that was a real crisis.
Top rate thread header again Alastair. I am not sure it will age well (I hope it won't!) but it's certainly sparked conversation.
I hope it won't too. If we're all going to be wiped out, I'd rather it was something nice and dramatic like a supervolcano or an asteroid. There's something so lacking in dramatic dignity about an airborne infection.
I have to laugh at the MPs having lack of downtime, most of them spend the majority of their time in the subsidised bars and restaurants living high on the hog on our cash , with a few interruptions to go vote. Must be the cushiest job in the country. Don't get me started on the holidays the f***ers vote for themselves either.
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
You are probably both right, and that an MP's job is either very hard or very cushy depending how conscientious the MP is. Devote your life to select committees and constituency work or just turn up when the whips tell you and sit in the subsidised bars till the division bell rings; and let your staff draft all replies for signature. In a safe seat it is almost entirely a matter of conscience.
If it were down to me, I'd pay MPs a bit more, say £100k to bring them into line with doctors and head teachers, and increase (and professionalise) their staff, but realistically no government will pay to create more informed, troublesome backbenchers. Governments want lobby fodder, and prefer to force through flawed legislation than risk headlines about U-turns.
This is not a new problem:
When in that House M.P.s divide, If they've a brain and cerebellum, too, They've got to leave that brain outside, And vote just as their leaders tell 'em to. But then the prospect of a lot Of dull M. P.s in close proximity, All thinking for themselves, is what No man can face with equanimity.
I suppose I would feel pretty bitter if I woke up one day to find my nationhood and sense of identity had been taken away from me. For example if the UK became a provincial authority of the United States of Europe.
There aren’t many of them in Britain but I guess there are some whose sense of national self identity was that of “EU Citizen”. That sucks for you guys, hope you feel better in time because it must feel terrible right now. Doesn’t do much good throwing rocks at each other in the meantime.
It’s nothing to do with national self-identity. It’s the appalling realisation that a large body of the population is willing to and has trashed every civic institution in pursuit of a mad obsession. What’s been taken away is any sense that Britain is a country where decency and moderation wins out. It’s now a country where people like you enthusiastically fall into line behind xenophobic lies and look to impose a destructive Brexit on the rest of us. One day you will realise just how disgustingly you and other Leavers have behaved. In the meantime, the country continues to degrade.
Dude you need to take a holiday / get more sleep.
"People like me". "Xenophobic". "behaved disgustingly".
You personally smeared your opponents as mentally ill. So yes, people like you.
I find you quite interesting. Because you seem to think it is a smear to point out that MPs' mental health appeared to be at breaking point with all the MVs, public pressure and lack of downtime last year.
As I said before, you've written some cracking headers in your time. I've even read some of them out aloud to friends, long before I stopped lurking here.
I guess I'll leave it there because mud slinging does no good
I have to laugh at the MPs having lack of downtime, most of them spend the majority of their time in the subsidised bars and restaurants living high on the hog on our cash , with a few interruptions to go vote. Must be the cushiest job in the country. Don't get me started on the holidays the f***ers vote for themselves either.
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
It looks simple to me , as long as you can bullshit it looks a breeze. Late starts , attend a few votes, piss it up in the subsided facilities , half the year on holiday , claim anything you want as expenses and gold plated pension, what more could you ask for.
You should know better than to write this kind of fact-light scaremongering article on this platform
Covid-19 is an nv coronavirus. These are well known. Zoonosis is a well understood phenomenon. Contagion in China was bad in one province because the Wuhan politicians were idiots.
The Diamond Princess contagion rates are pleasingly low given that they are in a confirmed area with vectors that can transmit the virus between passengers
In the U.K. 8 of the 9 infected individuals have already been released from hospital.
Fundamentally this is less severe but more contagious than SARS. We are going to be fine.
I have no problem with the article but I share your (relatively) sunny side up view of this. That said, I freely confess to zero expertise on the subject.
A neat summary of the position many people are in (except those already panicking).
As Jeff Bezos said when he first pitched for funds to launch Amazon, "humans simply don't understand exponential growth"
I suppose I would feel pretty bitter if I woke up one day to find my nationhood and sense of identity had been taken away from me. For example if the UK became a provincial authority of the United States of Europe.
There aren’t many of them in Britain but I guess there are some whose sense of national self identity was that of “EU Citizen”. That sucks for you guys, hope you feel better in time because it must feel terrible right now. Doesn’t do much good throwing rocks at each other in the meantime.
It’s nothing to do with national self-identity. It’s the appalling realisation that a large body of the population is willing to and has trashed every civic institution in pursuit of a mad obsession. What’s been taken away is any sense that Britain is a country where decency and moderation wins out. It’s now a country where people like you enthusiastically fall into line behind xenophobic lies and look to impose a destructive Brexit on the rest of us. One day you will realise just how disgustingly you and other Leavers have behaved. In the meantime, the country continues to degrade.
Dude you need to take a holiday / get more sleep.
"People like me". "Xenophobic". "behaved disgustingly".
You personally smeared your opponents as mentally ill. So yes, people like you.
I find you quite interesting. Because you seem to think it is a smear to point out that MPs' mental health appeared to be at breaking point with all the MVs, public pressure and lack of downtime last year.
As I said before, you've written some cracking headers in your time. I've even read some of them out aloud to friends, long before I stopped lurking here.
I guess I'll leave it there because mud slinging does no good
I have to laugh at the MPs having lack of downtime, most of them spend the majority of their time in the subsidised bars and restaurants living high on the hog on our cash , with a few interruptions to go vote. Must be the cushiest job in the country. Don't get me started on the holidays the f***ers vote for themselves either.
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
It looks simple to me , as long as you can bullshit it looks a breeze. Late starts , attend a few votes, piss it up in the subsided facilities , half the year on holiday , claim anything you want as expenses and gold plated pension, what more could you ask for.
In your case, not having to spend half your time in London, surely?
You're all a load of snowflakes. A 2% fatality rate, it's a pussy. Come and have a go if you think … etc. I'm over 70 now and I remember pneumonia being called "old man's friend".
I thought WHO were only fretting about Africa - where the effects might be magnified. Whatever happened to the stiff upper lip?
On my last two visits to sub-S Africa, there were Chinese people all over the place. It's hard to believe it isn't in Africa already; they just don't know it.
I have to laugh at the MPs having lack of downtime, most of them spend the majority of their time in the subsidised bars and restaurants living high on the hog on our cash , with a few interruptions to go vote. Must be the cushiest job in the country. Don't get me started on the holidays the f***ers vote for themselves either.
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
You are probably both right, and that an MP's job is either very hard or very cushy depending how conscientious the MP is. Devote your life to select committees and constituency work or just turn up when the whips tell you and sit in the subsidised bars till the division bell rings; and let your staff draft all replies for signature. In a safe seat it is almost entirely a matter of conscience.
If it were down to me, I'd pay MPs a bit more, say £100k to bring them into line with doctors and head teachers, and increase (and professionalise) their staff, but realistically no government will pay to create more informed, troublesome backbenchers. Governments want lobby fodder, and prefer to force through flawed legislation than risk headlines about U-turns.
This is not a new problem:
When in that House M.P.s divide, If they've a brain and cerebellum, too, They've got to leave that brain outside, And vote just as their leaders tell 'em to. But then the prospect of a lot Of dull M. P.s in close proximity, All thinking for themselves, is what No man can face with equanimity.
Dammit, I'm going to humming that all morning, now.
You should know better than to write this kind of fact-light scaremongering article on this platform
Covid-19 is an nv coronavirus. These are well known. Zoonosis is a well understood phenomenon. Contagion in China was bad in one province because the Wuhan politicians were idiots.
The Diamond Princess contagion rates are pleasingly low given that they are in a confirmed area with vectors that can transmit the virus between passengers
In the U.K. 8 of the 9 infected individuals have already been released from hospital.
Fundamentally this is less severe but more contagious than SARS. We are going to be fine.
Given the French health minister yesterday said that the possibility of Covid-19 spreading worldwide was “both a working assumption and a credible risk", you will have to accept that your view is not universally held.
And it's hardly "scaremongering" to present three different scenarios, all of which are within the bounds of possibility. (And Charles is just a little fact light himself in failing to note that only a fraction of the Diamond Princess passengers have actually been tested for the virus, while drawing conclusions about the 'pleasingly low contagion rates'.)
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
Hard in what sense? It suffers from precarity but that's just about every job now that we're living in toryworld.
Genuinely hard jobs are roles like delivering disgusting food on a scooter in South London, working in a care home or being a biorobot in an Amazon distribution centre.
I have to laugh at the MPs having lack of downtime, most of them spend the majority of their time in the subsidised bars and restaurants living high on the hog on our cash , with a few interruptions to go vote. Must be the cushiest job in the country. Don't get me started on the holidays the f***ers vote for themselves either.
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
You are probably both right, and that an MP's job is either very hard or very cushy depending how conscientious the MP is. Devote your life to select committees and constituency work or just turn up when the whips tell you and sit in the subsidised bars till the division bell rings; and let your staff draft all replies for signature. In a safe seat it is almost entirely a matter of conscience.
If it were down to me, I'd pay MPs a bit more, say £100k to bring them into line with doctors and head teachers, and increase (and professionalise) their staff, but realistically no government will pay to create more informed, troublesome backbenchers. Governments want lobby fodder, and prefer to force through flawed legislation than risk headlines about U-turns.
This is not a new problem:
When in that House M.P.s divide, If they've a brain and cerebellum, too, They've got to leave that brain outside, And vote just as their leaders tell 'em to. But then the prospect of a lot Of dull M. P.s in close proximity, All thinking for themselves, is what No man can face with equanimity.
Dammit, I'm going to humming that all morning, now.
I sang it at university a long time ago: one of the best songs in the show and you only have to be there for act 2.
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
Hard in what sense? It suffers from precarity but that's just about every job now that we're living in toryworld.
Genuinely hard jobs are roles like delivering disgusting food on a scooter in South London, working in a care home or being a biorobot in an Amazon distribution centre.
I think the hardest jobs are those where you have to deal with the general public.
Genuinely surprised by Sanders numbers amongst Hispanics. His car crash interview on a Spanish language TV station was part of what sunk him against Hilary last time out.
The outbreak in Wuhan is serious, but in all likelihood the epidemic in this city is likely to be towards the most severe end of the viruses capabilities. The crisis hit in the middle of winter, in a large city with a high population density. I suspect that millions there live in substandard housing. Those physical conditions are very good to spread quickly as the virus is contagious like a cold and promotes severe pneumonia. Then there are the structural problems; the Chinese health system was not well prepared for this epidemic and coping with an outbreak of any new disease is much harder than an outbreak of a known disease.
Yup, apparently although parts of Wuhan are very modern and opulent-looking much of it is quite unhygienic. I know a guy who lived in Wuhan last year, he says at least once a week on his way to work he'd see someone doing a poo in the street.
What's the basis for the statement that "(m)ore than 80% of patients (have) mild disease (and) will recover"? That tweeter has quoted Tedros Adhanom of the WHO but it is not clear whether these are Adhanom's words and in any case the word "will" seems unreasonably strong at this point.
There is an ugly non-zero possibility that the Chinese government hit by falling growth and also having gained experience during this epidemic of new uses of command lines will decide to introduce Covid-19 into one or more of those Uighur camps.
I don't think there is any evidence of malintent by the Chinese, there are very few cases in Tibet or Western China.
Very good header, thank you AM. For the world economy the epidemic is a supply shock, which is to say that it can induce both recession and inflation at the same time. The wrong policy response would be to counter the recession by pumping up aggregate demand, either through monetary expansion or fiscal laxity, because that would just be inflationary - too much money chasing the too few goods. The right response would be to refrain from intervening and let production and economic activity recover gradually to the new post-epidemic equilibrium.
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Apart from one article, I've seen little mention of seasonality - the possibility it goes dormant after winter, and any pandemic only hits next winter. Any differences in transmission amongst and from the Chinese population in Singapore should be of great interest.
The second is to what extent COVID, if it does become a pandemic, which does look unlikely to be on a scale worse than a decennial winter flu, becomes normalised, in other words, how much we start to think of it as like a bad flu rather than newer, more exotic, scarier. And, in turn, how much governments are able to normalise their response to it.
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
Hard in what sense? It suffers from precarity but that's just about every job now that we're living in toryworld.
Genuinely hard jobs are roles like delivering disgusting food on a scooter in South London, working in a care home or being a biorobot in an Amazon distribution centre.
In evidence I offer those (mainly safe seat Tory) MPs who carry on their previous career alongside being an MP, as proof that the job can be unbelievably cushy given the level of reward.
Which isn't to say there aren't others working very long hours.
The outbreak in Wuhan is serious, but in all likelihood the epidemic in this city is likely to be towards the most severe end of the viruses capabilities. The crisis hit in the middle of winter, in a large city with a high population density. I suspect that millions there live in substandard housing. Those physical conditions are very good to spread quickly as the virus is contagious like a cold and promotes severe pneumonia. Then there are the structural problems; the Chinese health system was not well prepared for this epidemic and coping with an outbreak of any new disease is much harder than an outbreak of a known disease.
Yup, apparently although parts of Wuhan are very modern and opulent-looking much of it is quite unhygienic. I know a guy who lived in Wuhan last year, he says at least once a week on his way to work he'd see someone doing a poo in the street.
When I first started going to Hong Kong 20 years or so ago, it was not unusual for restaurants to sell the slops they collected from unfinished plates and for used chopsticks/cutlery to be dropped into cold tea and taken out, wiped dry and reused without being washed. In the markets animal carcasses and live fish were chopped up by blokes in filthy clothes with fags hanging out of their mouths. Even now, if you hit the back streets standards of hygiene are well below what we’d expect. And Hong Kong is miles ahead of mainland China.
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
The government states that if the applicant earns less than the required minimum salary threshold, but no less than £20,480, they may still be able to enter if they have a job offer in a specific shortage occupation, or if they have a PhD relevant to the job
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
The government states that if the applicant earns less than the required minimum salary threshold, but no less than £20,480, they may still be able to enter if they have a job offer in a specific shortage occupation, or if they have a PhD relevant to the job
On top of that, a nurse with 2-3 years experience, makes a minimum of £27k a year now in the NHS. Better skilled and more experienced nurses can make significantly more than that.
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
Hard in what sense? It suffers from precarity but that's just about every job now that we're living in toryworld.
Genuinely hard jobs are roles like delivering disgusting food on a scooter in South London, working in a care home or being a biorobot in an Amazon distribution centre.
Also call centre, cleaner, cashier, barista, traffic warden - long list.
Most jobs that add real value are tough and low paid.
You're all a load of snowflakes. A 2% fatality rate, it's a pussy. Come and have a go if you think … etc. I'm over 70 now and I remember pneumonia being called "old man's friend".
I thought WHO were only fretting about Africa - where the effects might be magnified. Whatever happened to the stiff upper lip?
On my last two visits to sub-S Africa, there were Chinese people all over the place. It's hard to believe it isn't in Africa already; they just don't know it.
Trump says it is always summer in Africa, so no need to worry......
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
Hard in what sense? It suffers from precarity but that's just about every job now that we're living in toryworld.
Genuinely hard jobs are roles like delivering disgusting food on a scooter in South London, working in a care home or being a biorobot in an Amazon distribution centre.
In evidence I offer those (mainly safe seat Tory) MPs who carry on their previous career alongside being an MP, as proof that the job can be unbelievably cushy given the level of reward.
Which isn't to say there aren't others working very long hours.
There are probably some long serving MPs in safe seats who take the foot off the pedal but most seem pretty driven. You don't go through all the aggro of being selected and elected to do nowt. And, with the rise of select committees, there are more opportunities to do stuff - don't have to be a frontbencher.
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
There is a predictable response from those who oppose Brexit but the devil will be in the detail and I have no doubt the legislation will be amended in some areas as it passes through the HOC
However, it will be popular in the electorate and does put labour on the spot especially in those red wall seats that collapsed like a pack of cards in december
Furthermore, this system levels the playing field from across the world and is similar to many other countries
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
It is still disingenuous on a number of levels. It makes it sound like a whole range of trained healthcare professionals won't be eligible, when it isn't true.
Now on care assistants, it is still disingenuous, they have picked the lowest of the low, zero years of experience salary. Again if slightly better trained with a couple years of experience, you make more than £20k+.
On this they might have some point, all the other job titles they are deliberately being misleading as any of those jobs already make it (if there is a need) and if somebody is trained with some experience they easily make it. And my guess that is exactly why the levels have been set as they are.
Apart from one article, I've seen little mention of seasonality - the possibility it goes dormant after winter, and any pandemic only hits next winter. Any differences in transmission amongst and from the Chinese population in Singapore should be of great interest.
The second is to what extent COVID, if it does become a pandemic, which does look unlikely to be on a scale worse than a decennial winter flu, becomes normalised, in other words, how much we start to think of it as like a bad flu rather than newer, more exotic, scarier. And, in turn, how much governments are able to normalise their response to it.
That would be very good news, as we'd likely have an effective vaccine by then.
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
Hard in what sense? It suffers from precarity but that's just about every job now that we're living in toryworld.
Genuinely hard jobs are roles like delivering disgusting food on a scooter in South London, working in a care home or being a biorobot in an Amazon distribution centre.
In evidence I offer those (mainly safe seat Tory) MPs who carry on their previous career alongside being an MP, as proof that the job can be unbelievably cushy given the level of reward.
Which isn't to say there aren't others working very long hours.
There are probably some long serving MPs in safe seats who take the foot off the pedal but most seem pretty driven. You don't go through all the aggro of being selected and elected to do nowt. And, with the rise of select committees, there are more opportunities to do stuff - don't have to be a frontbencher.
My experience is in local government, where many councillors work hard, but there are certainly some who do very little in their patch and contribute very little on the council. I am sure it's the same in parliament. The common factor is that many of our politicians have career security arising from a voting system that grants them safe seats despite being useless and/or lazy.
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
There is a predictable response from those who oppose Brexit but the devil will be in the detail and I have no doubt the legislation will be amended in some areas as it passes through the HOC
However, it will be popular in the electorate and does put labour on the spot especially in those red wall seats that collapsed like a pack of cards in december
Furthermore, this system levels the playing field from across the world and is similar to many other countries
Really - do you think the Tees Valley is going to be happy as I import skilled people in from Pakistan above the head of the locals (I would save myself £14,000+ a head minimum that way)..
For an awful lot of jobs as of Jan 1st 2021 - £25,600 or something close to that is the maximum wage - accept it or we ship another worker in.
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
Hard in what sense? It suffers from precarity but that's just about every job now that we're living in toryworld.
Genuinely hard jobs are roles like delivering disgusting food on a scooter in South London, working in a care home or being a biorobot in an Amazon distribution centre.
In evidence I offer those (mainly safe seat Tory) MPs who carry on their previous career alongside being an MP, as proof that the job can be unbelievably cushy given the level of reward.
Which isn't to say there aren't others working very long hours.
There are those mps who also manage to fit in a role of being head of government (Also mainly safe seat Tory).
I don't have time to look at the maths, but here's a thought. When you consider a range of in work benefits like tax credits, housing benefit, etc, what is the break even point you have to make where you are paying more tax than benefits received?
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
There is a predictable response from those who oppose Brexit but the devil will be in the detail and I have no doubt the legislation will be amended in some areas as it passes through the HOC
However, it will be popular in the electorate and does put labour on the spot especially in those red wall seats that collapsed like a pack of cards in december
Furthermore, this system levels the playing field from across the world and is similar to many other countries
Really - do you think the Tees Valley is going to be happy as I import skilled people in from Pakistan above the head of the locals (I would save myself £14,000+ a head minimum that way)..
For an awful lot of jobs as of Jan 1st 2021 - £25,600 or something close to that is the maximum wage - accept it or we ship another worker in.
Btw, in the earlier discussion about the cruise ship and misdirecting comments about how it has supposedly become an 'incubator' for the virus, nobody seemed to notice the important implication of what has happened.
You see currently the theory is that the coronavirus is primarily transmitted within droplets, so it cannot travel far from the host or infected surfaces. That people appear to be getting infected during quarantine implies it can aerosolize, allowing it to travel further and escape quarantine measures.
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
It is still disingenuous on a number of levels. It makes it sound like a whole range of trained healthcare professionals won't be eligible, when it isn't true.
Now on care assistants, it is still disingenuous, they have picked the lowest of the low, zero years of experience salary. Again if slightly better trained with a couple years of experience, you make more than £20k+.
On this they might have some point, all the other job titles they are deliberately being misleading as any of those jobs already make it (if there is a need) and if somebody is trained with some experience they easily make it. And my guess that is exactly why the levels have been set as they are.
I disagree on social care. It is a big issue because the pay is relatively low, especially outside the M25, and it’s an area that does not lend itself to automation. Over time, as other areas do automate, more Brits might move into the sector, but that will be a process. In the meantime, a solution will have to be found. Other areas I am far less concerned about - it will just mean higher prices.
The other issue is that the black economy and illegal immigration will both almost inevitably increase. You’ll still be able to get into the UK very cheaply from Europe and will not need a visa, so a lot of people will come over and do cash in hand work until they’re caught.
You should know better than to write this kind of fact-light scaremongering article on this platform
Covid-19 is an nv coronavirus. These are well known. Zoonosis is a well understood phenomenon. Contagion in China was bad in one province because the Wuhan politicians were idiots.
The Diamond Princess contagion rates are pleasingly low given that they are in a confirmed area with vectors that can transmit the virus between passengers
In the U.K. 8 of the 9 infected individuals have already been released from hospital.
Fundamentally this is less severe but more contagious than SARS. We are going to be fine.
Given the French health minister yesterday said that the possibility of Covid-19 spreading worldwide was “both a working assumption and a credible risk", you will have to accept that your view is not universally held.
And it's hardly "scaremongering" to present three different scenarios, all of which are within the bounds of possibility. (And Charles is just a little fact light himself in failing to note that only a fraction of the Diamond Princess passengers have actually been tested for the virus, while drawing conclusions about the 'pleasingly low contagion rates'.)
I note I did Charles an injustice, as the majority of passengers do now appear to have been tested. http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13141065 Among the 3,711 passengers and crew, 542 people were found to be infected with the new coronavirus as of Feb. 18, although nearly half of them displayed no symptoms. Authorities said 2,404 people took the virus test and that 25 people are in serious condition.
I don't have time to look at the maths, but here's a thought. When you consider a range of in work benefits like tax credits, housing benefit, etc, what is the break even point you have to make where you are paying more tax than benefits received?
I wonder if it is roughly £20k a year?
Dunno, never saw any of those even when I was on 10k a year. Is having kids the megabooster to in work benefits ?
For the Guardian wailing about Lithuanian nannies, it really does seem a very liberal point based system. Graduate level jobs pay £24-25k a year, and the government have taken the sensible step of allowing foreign born graduates from the UK 2 years to find such a job after their degree. It is hardly booting out Johnny Foreigner ASAP.
Try to going to somewhere like Canada without a degree or a specialist skill and especially if over 40.
For the Guardian wailing about Lithuanian nannies, it really does seem a very liberal point based system. Graduate level jobs pay £24-25k a year, and the government have taken the sensible step of allowing foreign born graduates from the UK 2 years to find such a job after their degree. It is hardly booting out Johnny Foreigner ASAP.
Try to going to somewhere like Canada without a degree or a specialist skill and especially if over 40.
But who will wash Tarquin’s car and who will care for baby Gemima?
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
It is still disingenuous on a number of levels. It makes it sound like a whole range of trained healthcare professionals won't be eligible, when it isn't true.
Now on care assistants, it is still disingenuous, they have picked the lowest of the low, zero years of experience salary. Again if slightly better trained with a couple years of experience, you make more than £20k+.
On this they might have some point, all the other job titles they are deliberately being misleading as any of those jobs already make it (if there is a need) and if somebody is trained with some experience they easily make it. And my guess that is exactly why the levels have been set as they are.
I disagree on social care. It is a big issue because the pay is relatively low, especially outside the M25, and it’s an area that does not lend itself to automation. Over time, as other areas do automate, more Brits might move into the sector, but that will be a process. In the meantime, a solution will have to be found. Other areas I am far less concerned about - it will just mean higher prices.
The other issue is that the black economy and illegal immigration will both almost inevitably increase. You’ll still be able to get into the UK very cheaply from Europe and will not need a visa, so a lot of people will come over and do cash in hand work until they’re caught.
Phew. For a moment I thought I won’t be able to buy a big issue.
For the Guardian wailing about Lithuanian nannies, it really does seem a very liberal point based system. Graduate level jobs pay £24-25k a year, and the government have taken the sensible step of allowing foreign born graduates from the UK 2 years to find such a job after their degree. It is hardly booting out Johnny Foreigner ASAP.
Try to going to somewhere like Canada without a degree or a specialist skill and especially if over 40.
But who will wash Tarquin’s car and who will care for baby Gemima?
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
It is still disingenuous on a number of levels. It makes it sound like a whole range of trained healthcare professionals won't be eligible, when it isn't true.
Now on care assistants, it is still disingenuous, they have picked the lowest of the low, zero years of experience salary. Again if slightly better trained with a couple years of experience, you make more than £20k+.
On this they might have some point, all the other job titles they are deliberately being misleading as any of those jobs already make it (if there is a need) and if somebody is trained with some experience they easily make it. And my guess that is exactly why the levels have been set as they are.
I disagree on social care. It is a big issue because the pay is relatively low, especially outside the M25, and it’s an area that does not lend itself to automation. Over time, as other areas do automate, more Brits might move into the sector, but that will be a process. In the meantime, a solution will have to be found. Other areas I am far less concerned about - it will just mean higher prices.
The other issue is that the black economy and illegal immigration will both almost inevitably increase. You’ll still be able to get into the UK very cheaply from Europe and will not need a visa, so a lot of people will come over and do cash in hand work until they’re caught.
For the Guardian wailing about Lithuanian nannies, it really does seem a very liberal point based system. Graduate level jobs pay £24-25k a year, and the government have taken the sensible step of allowing foreign born graduates from the UK 2 years to find such a job after their degree. It is hardly booting out Johnny Foreigner ASAP.
Try to going to somewhere like Canada without a degree or a specialist skill and especially if over 40.
But who will wash Tarquin’s car and who will care for baby Gemima?
I notice that the tw@ts ripping up the ancient lawn in Cambridge the other day of course included an Amelia and a Tily...
I don't have time to look at the maths, but here's a thought. When you consider a range of in work benefits like tax credits, housing benefit, etc, what is the break even point you have to make where you are paying more tax than benefits received?
I wonder if it is roughly £20k a year?
It’s about £35k. But there’s caveats. If you have no family you draw no call on education. If you are young (and not pregnant) you again are unlikely to make material draw on health.
I don't have time to look at the maths, but here's a thought. When you consider a range of in work benefits like tax credits, housing benefit, etc, what is the break even point you have to make where you are paying more tax than benefits received?
The outbreak in Wuhan is serious, but in all likelihood the epidemic in this city is likely to be towards the most severe end of the viruses capabilities. The crisis hit in the middle of winter, in a large city with a high population density. I suspect that millions there live in substandard housing. Those physical conditions are very good to spread quickly as the virus is contagious like a cold and promotes severe pneumonia. Then there are the structural problems; the Chinese health system was not well prepared for this epidemic and coping with an outbreak of any new disease is much harder than an outbreak of a known disease.
Yup, apparently although parts of Wuhan are very modern and opulent-looking much of it is quite unhygienic. I know a guy who lived in Wuhan last year, he says at least once a week on his way to work he'd see someone doing a poo in the street.
When I first started going to Hong Kong 20 years or so ago, it was not unusual for restaurants to sell the slops they collected from unfinished plates and for used chopsticks/cutlery to be dropped into cold tea and taken out, wiped dry and reused without being washed. In the markets animal carcasses and live fish were chopped up by blokes in filthy clothes with fags hanging out of their mouths. Even now, if you hit the back streets standards of hygiene are well below what we’d expect. And Hong Kong is miles ahead of mainland China.
I've never been, but I understand that the Chinese are also very keen on spitting. Apparently there was a big campaign before the Beijing Olympics to stop people spitting in the street quite so much.
For the Guardian wailing about Lithuanian nannies, it really does seem a very liberal point based system. Graduate level jobs pay £24-25k a year, and the government have taken the sensible step of allowing foreign born graduates from the UK 2 years to find such a job after their degree. It is hardly booting out Johnny Foreigner ASAP.
Try to going to somewhere like Canada without a degree or a specialist skill and especially if over 40.
It's doing my head in that the sort of people who usually come up with stuff like "the minimum wage should be £15 per hour" are now moaning that we won't be able to import labour to do our crappiest lowest-paid jobs. It's almost like they want there to be millions of people exploited by Britain's worst employers.
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
There is a predictable response from those who oppose Brexit but the devil will be in the detail and I have no doubt the legislation will be amended in some areas as it passes through the HOC
However, it will be popular in the electorate and does put labour on the spot especially in those red wall seats that collapsed like a pack of cards in december
Furthermore, this system levels the playing field from across the world and is similar to many other countries
Really - do you think the Tees Valley is going to be happy as I import skilled people in from Pakistan above the head of the locals (I would save myself £14,000+ a head minimum that way)..
For an awful lot of jobs as of Jan 1st 2021 - £25,600 or something close to that is the maximum wage - accept it or we ship another worker in.
Not sure I understand your point to be fair
Why pay a smoggy in a tracksuit 30k for a job when you can import a foreigner for 26k?
Seems like Boris has screwed this up. Not a surprise.
No he has not
Big G! I think HYUFD might have hijacked your PB account! Unless you too have now joined the Boris fan club.
I have my reservation about Boris but I expect the new immigration policy to be popular but some amendments will be needed during it's progress through the HOC
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
There is a predictable response from those who oppose Brexit but the devil will be in the detail and I have no doubt the legislation will be amended in some areas as it passes through the HOC
However, it will be popular in the electorate and does put labour on the spot especially in those red wall seats that collapsed like a pack of cards in december
Furthermore, this system levels the playing field from across the world and is similar to many other countries
Really - do you think the Tees Valley is going to be happy as I import skilled people in from Pakistan above the head of the locals (I would save myself £14,000+ a head minimum that way)..
For an awful lot of jobs as of Jan 1st 2021 - £25,600 or something close to that is the maximum wage - accept it or we ship another worker in.
Not sure I understand your point to be fair
Why pay a smoggy in a tracksuit 30k for a job when you can import a foreigner for 26k?
Correct, it's not difficult - I will just go abroad and bring someone in who is skilled rather than training up..
I don't have time to look at the maths, but here's a thought. When you consider a range of in work benefits like tax credits, housing benefit, etc, what is the break even point you have to make where you are paying more tax than benefits received?
I wonder if it is roughly £20k a year?
Dunno, never saw any of those even when I was on 10k a year. Is having kids the megabooster to in work benefits ?
It used to be under old tax credits regime. Eastern European would come over, leave wife and two kids back home, do min wage job, pay pretty much no income tax but be able to double salary Income from child tax credits, working tax credits and child benefit.
Seems like Boris has screwed this up. Not a surprise.
No he has not
Big G! I think HYUFD might have hijacked your PB account! Unless you too have now joined the Boris fan club.
I have my reservation about Boris but I expect the new immigration policy to be popular but some amendments will be needed during it's progress through the HOC
That is one of my many beefs with Boris. The key indicator is not does it work? but is it popular?
I don't have time to look at the maths, but here's a thought. When you consider a range of in work benefits like tax credits, housing benefit, etc, what is the break even point you have to make where you are paying more tax than benefits received?
I wonder if it is roughly £20k a year?
That will depend on where you live, won’t it?
Well obviously and how many kids etc. I just wonder if you live outside London, have a kid, does ~£20k sound about right for when you start paying in more than you receive in the more direct instant benefits i.e. before you consider potential pension, cost to NHS, school for you kid.
Instinctively, it is probably more than that, as £20k a year results in £1,364 in NI, £1,498 in IC, so roughly £3k a year in direct taxation.
Just trying to get a handle on why the £20k <-> £25k a year levels were picked.
"Tory chancellor Ken Clarke predicted Mr Cummings will not last long as the PM's top adviser unless he 'vanishes' and returns to being a 'back room' operator.
Mr Clarke suggested the 'exotic aide' will only survive in the job if his 'personal appearances stop'."
The outbreak in Wuhan is serious, but in all likelihood the epidemic in this city is likely to be towards the most severe end of the viruses capabilities. The crisis hit in the middle of winter, in a large city with a high population density. I suspect that millions there live in substandard housing. Those physical conditions are very good to spread quickly as the virus is contagious like a cold and promotes severe pneumonia. Then there are the structural problems; the Chinese health system was not well prepared for this epidemic and coping with an outbreak of any new disease is much harder than an outbreak of a known disease.
Yup, apparently although parts of Wuhan are very modern and opulent-looking much of it is quite unhygienic. I know a guy who lived in Wuhan last year, he says at least once a week on his way to work he'd see someone doing a poo in the street.
When I first started going to Hong Kong 20 years or so ago, it was not unusual for restaurants to sell the slops they collected from unfinished plates and for used chopsticks/cutlery to be dropped into cold tea and taken out, wiped dry and reused without being washed. In the markets animal carcasses and live fish were chopped up by blokes in filthy clothes with fags hanging out of their mouths. Even now, if you hit the back streets standards of hygiene are well below what we’d expect. And Hong Kong is miles ahead of mainland China.
I've never been, but I understand that the Chinese are also very keen on spitting. Apparently there was a big campaign before the Beijing Olympics to stop people spitting in the street quite so much.
Seems like Boris has screwed this up. Not a surprise.
No he has not
Big G! I think HYUFD might have hijacked your PB account! Unless you too have now joined the Boris fan club.
I have my reservation about Boris but I expect the new immigration policy to be popular but some amendments will be needed during it's progress through the HOC
Looking forward to Home Office administering this. It's track record is "not fit for purpose" to quote a long forgotten occupant.
Seems like Boris has screwed this up. Not a surprise.
No he has not
Big G! I think HYUFD might have hijacked your PB account! Unless you too have now joined the Boris fan club.
I have my reservation about Boris but I expect the new immigration policy to be popular but some amendments will be needed during it's progress through the HOC
That is one of my many beefs with Boris. The key indicator is not does it work? but is it popular?
It was in the manifesto and will work with some adjustments
Thinks that jumps out at me from the header is that cruise ships are full of old people so we shouldn’t extrapolate from the number of the passengers on the Princess who have caught the virus to the wider world
I think being an MP is one of the hardest jobs there is.
Hard in what sense? It suffers from precarity but that's just about every job now that we're living in toryworld.
Genuinely hard jobs are roles like delivering disgusting food on a scooter in South London, working in a care home or being a biorobot in an Amazon distribution centre.
In evidence I offer those (mainly safe seat Tory) MPs who carry on their previous career alongside being an MP, as proof that the job can be unbelievably cushy given the level of reward.
Which isn't to say there aren't others working very long hours.
There are probably some long serving MPs in safe seats who take the foot off the pedal but most seem pretty driven. You don't go through all the aggro of being selected and elected to do nowt. And, with the rise of select committees, there are more opportunities to do stuff - don't have to be a frontbencher.
My experience is in local government, where many councillors work hard, but there are certainly some who do very little in their patch and contribute very little on the council. I am sure it's the same in parliament. The common factor is that many of our politicians have career security arising from a voting system that grants them safe seats despite being useless and/or lazy.
Safe seats are not the problem with the current voting system. The problem lies in those seats where say 65% of the voters don't get the MP they want.
Seems like Boris has screwed this up. Not a surprise.
No he has not
Big G! I think HYUFD might have hijacked your PB account! Unless you too have now joined the Boris fan club.
I have my reservation about Boris but I expect the new immigration policy to be popular but some amendments will be needed during it's progress through the HOC
Looking forward to Home Office administering this. It's track record is "not fit for purpose" to quote a long forgotten occupant.
I do agree administration will be difficult in the early years
Anyway, this morning's ringside seat is watching Matthew Goodwin and Rob Ford, co-authors of "Revolt On The Right", knocking seven bells out of each other on Twitter about immigration. It's getting perilously close to History Today.
It’s quite possible all that will happen with the new immigration laws is that the same number of people are happy and unhappy as before, except the sides will have switched. Hope so, as that’s the only reason I voted Leave.
I'm a little skeptical of those humongous projections.
It does look rather like the doom-and-gloom 15 year projections / claims from the Remain Campaigners, based on the assumption that nothing was going to change.
Thinks that jumps out at me from the header is that cruise ships are full of old people so we shouldn’t extrapolate from the number of the passengers on the Princess who have caught the virus to the wider world
The difference is not in infection rates, it's in severity. It's not like young people don't contract the virus, it just doesn't generally cause symptoms.
Thinks that jumps out at me from the header is that cruise ships are full of old people so we shouldn’t extrapolate from the number of the passengers on the Princess who have caught the virus to the wider world.
Yes, point.
But look it's IMMIGRATION day. The new post Brexit policy.
And you are one of the precious few Leavers (on here) who openly recognizes that a desire for tighter borders was probably the main driver of that seismic 2016 Referendum result.
Thinks that jumps out at me from the header is that cruise ships are full of old people so we shouldn’t extrapolate from the number of the passengers on the Princess who have caught the virus to the wider world.
Yes, point.
But look it's IMMIGRATION day. The new post Brexit policy.
And you are one of the precious few Leavers (on here) who openly recognizes that a desire for tighter borders was probably the main driver of that seismic 2016 Referendum result.
So, big question, the biggest -
Do you like the new regime? Are you happy now?
Like me, he has probably been gloriously happy since June 2016.
"Tory chancellor Ken Clarke predicted Mr Cummings will not last long as the PM's top adviser unless he 'vanishes' and returns to being a 'back room' operator.
Mr Clarke suggested the 'exotic aide' will only survive in the job if his 'personal appearances stop'."
Gone by the summer I reckon.
Yes, for his sake we need to stop seeing him. It would also be nice for us if we could stop seeing him.
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
Disingenious tweet....From the link itself, all those earning £24k like a nurse get enough points from the category of "designated shortage occupation".
But not, for instance, in social care, which is one of the biggest domestic concerns we have and which has a huge impact on NHS care. The other three questions on this area have been carefully avoided, I notice.
There is a predictable response from those who oppose Brexit but the devil will be in the detail and I have no doubt the legislation will be amended in some areas as it passes through the HOC
However, it will be popular in the electorate and does put labour on the spot especially in those red wall seats that collapsed like a pack of cards in december
Furthermore, this system levels the playing field from across the world and is similar to many other countries
Social care is a big issue. Wages are low. If they are low, the new immigration system will not help.
If wages have to rise, how will councils fund social care? How will private clients?
If the funding is not there, immigrant labour is not available then the brutal reality is that social care will not be available for those who need it.
An answer to these practical questions would be helpful.
A male Twitter user in his 30s aboard the ship who goes by the handle of @daxa_tw said he was in limbo. “I don’t know when I’ll be getting off because my test results haven’t come back yet,” he said in a direct message.
The measures may not be enough to curtail the virus that has spread rapidly throughout the ship, health officials said. With people aboard hailing from more than 50 countries, the end of the quarantine raises worries the vessel could become the source of a fresh wave of global infections.
“It’s entirely possible to get tested, be negative and get on an airplane and be positive once you land,” said Keiji Fukuda, the director of the School of Public Health at Hong Kong University and a former World Health Organization official who has led responses to outbreaks. “That’s just how infections work.”
Fukuda says it’s prudent for countries to quarantine passengers even though they have been under isolation and test results came back negative. “It’s providing a high level of safety for the place they’re being brought back to.”
The risk became apparent after the U.S. evacuated more than 300 of its nationals over the weekend and received notice during the process that 14 passengers, who had been tested two to three days earlier, had contracted the virus...
Comments
I thought WHO were only fretting about Africa - where the effects might be magnified. Whatever happened to the stiff upper lip?
"As it happens, I have a cold at the moment. I had a double seat to myself this morning on a crowded train."
That would be London - Snowflake Central?
The fatality rate of COVID19 for those between 70 and 79 years old is at the moment 8%. Are you prepared to roll two dice and you die if you roll a 2 or 3? I though not.
The question is how many asymptomatic patients there have been to calculate the mortality rate. We don't know yet.
I don't suffer from COPD or asthma, but if it's got my number on it, I've had my three score and ten. I survived October 27th 1962 - now that was a real crisis.
When in that House M.P.s divide,
If they've a brain and cerebellum, too,
They've got to leave that brain outside,
And vote just as their leaders tell 'em to.
But then the prospect of a lot
Of dull M. P.s in close proximity,
All thinking for themselves, is what
No man can face with equanimity.
As Jeff Bezos said when he first pitched for funds to launch Amazon, "humans simply don't understand exponential growth"
Genuinely hard jobs are roles like delivering disgusting food on a scooter in South London, working in a care home or being a biorobot in an Amazon distribution centre.
https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1230034108308508677?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1229999593846386689?s=20
For the world economy the epidemic is a supply shock, which is to say that it can induce both recession and inflation at the same time. The wrong policy response would be to counter the recession by pumping up aggregate demand, either through monetary expansion or fiscal laxity, because that would just be inflationary - too much money chasing the too few goods. The right response would be to refrain from intervening and let production and economic activity recover gradually to the new post-epidemic equilibrium.
Quite how we are going to attract all the NHS workers we will need under the government’s new immigration policy is another matter. The starting salaries for most of them are below the minimum salary required.
See here - https://twitter.com/doctor_oxford/status/1230043859167666176?s=21
It would also be interesting to know how “innovation in technology and automation” is going to help provide services in the social care sector and what this will mean for elderly sick patients. If wages have to raise will the government provide the additional funding needed to local authorities?
Oh - and where is the plan for social care that Boris announced he had when he became PM?
The second is to what extent COVID, if it does become a pandemic, which does look unlikely to be on a scale worse than a decennial winter flu, becomes normalised, in other words, how much we start to think of it as like a bad flu rather than newer, more exotic, scarier. And, in turn, how much governments are able to normalise their response to it.
Which isn't to say there aren't others working very long hours.
https://www.unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2019/03/25502.pdf
Most jobs that add real value are tough and low paid.
(well, he will tweet it!)
However, it will be popular in the electorate and does put labour on the spot especially in those red wall seats that collapsed like a pack of cards in december
Furthermore, this system levels the playing field from across the world and is similar to many other countries
Now on care assistants, it is still disingenuous, they have picked the lowest of the low, zero years of experience salary. Again if slightly better trained with a couple years of experience, you make more than £20k+.
On this they might have some point, all the other job titles they are deliberately being misleading as any of those jobs already make it (if there is a need) and if somebody is trained with some experience they easily make it. And my guess that is exactly why the levels have been set as they are.
https://twitter.com/e_casalicchio/status/1229877582591643650?s=21
For an awful lot of jobs as of Jan 1st 2021 - £25,600 or something close to that is the maximum wage - accept it or we ship another worker in.
I wonder if it is roughly £20k a year?
You see currently the theory is that the coronavirus is primarily transmitted within droplets, so it cannot travel far from the host or infected surfaces. That people appear to be getting infected during quarantine implies it can aerosolize, allowing it to travel further and escape quarantine measures.
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1229941167459950592
The other issue is that the black economy and illegal immigration will both almost inevitably increase. You’ll still be able to get into the UK very cheaply from Europe and will not need a visa, so a lot of people will come over and do cash in hand work until they’re caught.
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13141065
Among the 3,711 passengers and crew, 542 people were found to be infected with the new coronavirus as of Feb. 18, although nearly half of them displayed no symptoms.
Authorities said 2,404 people took the virus test and that 25 people are in serious condition.
Try to going to somewhere like Canada without a degree or a specialist skill and especially if over 40.
Oh, the horror......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv_uXv04JBM
There are weeks where decades happen, as Father Lenin taught us...
Instinctively, it is probably more than that, as £20k a year results in £1,364 in NI, £1,498 in IC, so roughly £3k a year in direct taxation.
Just trying to get a handle on why the £20k <-> £25k a year levels were picked.
"Tory chancellor Ken Clarke predicted Mr Cummings will not last long as the PM's top adviser unless he 'vanishes' and returns to being a 'back room' operator.
Mr Clarke suggested the 'exotic aide' will only survive in the job if his 'personal appearances stop'."
Gone by the summer I reckon.
It does look rather like the doom-and-gloom 15 year projections / claims from the Remain Campaigners, based on the assumption that nothing was going to change.
But look it's IMMIGRATION day. The new post Brexit policy.
And you are one of the precious few Leavers (on here) who openly recognizes that a desire for tighter borders was probably the main driver of that seismic 2016 Referendum result.
So, big question, the biggest -
Do you like the new regime? Are you happy now?
If wages have to rise, how will councils fund social care? How will private clients?
If the funding is not there, immigrant labour is not available then the brutal reality is that social care will not be available for those who need it.
An answer to these practical questions would be helpful.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/19/national/diamond-princess-covid19-quarantine/#.Xk0Ksi10cW8
... Japan will ask those with negative results to provide their contact information and will give them instructions for what to do if they start feeling sick, the ministry’s notice said, while foreign nationals who have contracted the virus are set to stay in Japan for treatment.
A male Twitter user in his 30s aboard the ship who goes by the handle of @daxa_tw said he was in limbo. “I don’t know when I’ll be getting off because my test results haven’t come back yet,” he said in a direct message.
The measures may not be enough to curtail the virus that has spread rapidly throughout the ship, health officials said. With people aboard hailing from more than 50 countries, the end of the quarantine raises worries the vessel could become the source of a fresh wave of global infections.
“It’s entirely possible to get tested, be negative and get on an airplane and be positive once you land,” said Keiji Fukuda, the director of the School of Public Health at Hong Kong University and a former World Health Organization official who has led responses to outbreaks. “That’s just how infections work.”
Fukuda says it’s prudent for countries to quarantine passengers even though they have been under isolation and test results came back negative. “It’s providing a high level of safety for the place they’re being brought back to.”
The risk became apparent after the U.S. evacuated more than 300 of its nationals over the weekend and received notice during the process that 14 passengers, who had been tested two to three days earlier, had contracted the virus...