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  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Impostume is, boringly, an abscess.

    And quinsey a peritonsillar abscess.

    I guess most of it essentially meant death by sepsis, or blood poisoning as we used to call it.

    Sobering, imagine dying of toothache?
    Sepsis is the subject of a big advertising campaign by the NHS at the moment. With the threat of anti-biotics losing their efficacy it could be a major killer once again.
    It is a major killer if its not diagnosed v early. It nearly did for my wife but we have an outstanding GP who realised what it was....
  • Does anyone seriously believe that Cummings does not agree with every word Sabisky said?

    He must do. He hired him.

    Exactly.

    Ok, I'll bite.

    Cummings has publicly said he's interested in hiring misfits and weirdos and people who think outside the box. That is naturally going to attract some people who have some unusual views.

    Does that mean by necessity he agrees with them all?

    No. I might hire all sorts of people and I'd hire them on their skillset and capability. I can think of two people who'd be the first two I'd call if I had a major rail project I was in charge of delivering. One is a registered Labour party member. The other an evangelical Christian.

    I disagree with them both on both counts. They disagree with me on Brexit.

    My political views have no bearing on my recruitment choices and neither does the fact that I might hire someone who holds different views to mine reflect on me.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,229
    edited February 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Both Labour and Tory prefer to have each other as opponents, demonising each other to motivate their own troops is so easy.

    Yes. A more LibDemy (and more concise) way of saying what I am saying.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    Regardless, I too am currently going through quite a deep period of depression and it’s been quite the struggle. Especially when the big changes currently ongoing in my life should be happy and exciting (they are happy and exciting, but that doesn’t seem to make a difference). It’s very hard to speak to people about such things, even people who are close. I’m not sure why. When you try and open up, its almost like people don’t know how to deal with it.

    I just wanted to say that I spend a significant amount of “down time” here, especially during such times. The time I spend reading all your (mostly) informative posts outside (sometimes far outside) of my “bubble” is a very enjoyable change of perspective (not only on politics but also about life) and I feel it can only be a good thing to be exposed to such things. I really appreciate this resource and all your contributions to it.

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
  • kinabalu said:

    Precisely!

    By protecting their "Lib Dem flank" while exposing their Tory flank they ensured they got an appalling amount of seats despite having a not entirely atrocious share of the vote. Because of what I wrote - losing a vote to the Tories is twice as bad as losing a vote to the Lib Dems.

    If Labour strategists and fanbois don't understand basic maths like that, its a good thing they're not running the country.

    There is a big big aspect that you and others are missing. Here it is -

    If Labour had gone the other way - stuck with their 2017 policy of renegotiated Soft Leave, no Ref2 - there was a very serious risk of losing a ton of seats to the LDs in Remain areas. This could have led to the LDs staking a claim to be the main non-Tory party going forward. Or at least to have taken a giant stride down that path.

    And this is worse for Labour than what happened. It is better to lose big to the Cons but with the LDs crushed than to lose a bit less big to the Cons with the LDs rampant. The latter is what the LDs were hoping for. It is why they went for the election. Labour's approach snuffed it out. It was the best course open to them in the circumstances.
    I think an ultrasoft Leave (workers Brexit) with customs union membership and single market alignment (and no "freedom of movement", but a lot of "free movement") and the whole thing to be reviewed in 10 years time would have been the right position for Labour.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    @Gallowgate

    Very sorry to hear about your challenges. We are a funny group here for sure. But we are with you always. Please keep us informed about the progression of your law studies.

    Our concern is that with a knowledge of the law you might see through our bullshit on any particular topic.
  • It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,002
    edited February 2020
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Impostume is, boringly, an abscess.

    And quinsey a peritonsillar abscess.

    I guess most of it essentially meant death by sepsis, or blood poisoning as we used to call it.

    Sobering, imagine dying of toothache?
    Sepsis is the subject of a big advertising campaign by the NHS at the moment. With the threat of anti-biotics losing their efficacy it could be a major killer once again.
    Yep, we may end up seeing the age of antibiotics as a tragically brief one. My maternal Angus grand parents, like a lot of working folk, had all their teeth removed in the 1930s as a precautionary measure.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    Regardless, I too am currently going through quite a deep period of depression and it’s been quite the struggle. Especially when the big changes currently ongoing in my life should be happy and exciting (they are happy and exciting, but that doesn’t seem to make a difference). It’s very hard to speak to people about such things, even people who are close. I’m not sure why. When you try and open up, its almost like people don’t know how to deal with it.

    I just wanted to say that I spend a significant amount of “down time” here, especially during such times. The time I spend reading all your (mostly) informative posts outside (sometimes far outside) of my “bubble” is a very enjoyable change of perspective (not only on politics but also about life) and I feel it can only be a good thing to be exposed to such things. I really appreciate this resource and all your contributions to it.

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    Sadiq should be very jealous of that murder rate.
  • MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    What a remarkable question.

    I think that perhaps Burgon Boy needs to ask the legions of voters who walked away because they were not going to touch Corbyn and his ilk with a bargepole, rather than himself in the mirror.

    Genuinely funny.

    (Writing from a 'Red Wall' seat that went Tory for perhaps 4 main reasons - 1 Lab's lack of clarity on honouring the Brexit decision, 2 - Corbyn, 3 - Demographic shift over time, 4 - Here we had a strong independent who gave a non-Tory option for Lab protesters.)

    I think they will have a real problem if they keep patronising voters by describing them as "our heartlands". "Former heartlands", maybe - as that size 11 bootprint on the backside should remind them.

    All very interesting (and I mean that) but this post does not really belong there, hanging onto the last 2 sentences of my offering. Which was dealing precisely and forensically with one particular tweet of Burgon's - the one where he states the palpably reasonable view that Corbyn if he wishes has several years of political career ahead of him.
    He may have, but I am not convinced that it will help create a future for the party.

    A role more like the one Theresa May is adopting - ie more or less what he did before - may be a better call politically imo.
    Worth pointing out that Burgon had a massive negative swing in his own seat Leeds East, which is now the closest it has been since 1959 (down from 31% majority to 14%)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nearly three times as many died of TB (though I suspect ‘consumption’ might include other diseases) as old age.
    And to die of several accidents.... :smile:

    Planet ??

    And the poor unfortunate carried away by piles.
    What is "Planet"?
    Indeed.
    I suppose if you fell from a great height, the impact with our planet....

    Impostume... Quinsey...
    "Rising of the lights"?????
    Lungs, I think.

    Lights in the offal sense.


  • If Starmer excludes Long-Bailey, and I think he should for a whole host of reasons, it will cause some waves and as a consequence he will find it harder to bring in too many of Corbyn's harshest critics. If he's looking to unify the party, it would be hard to bring back those senior figures who declined from day one to serve under Corbyn, as opposed to resigning after 2016. Yvette Cooper was one of them.

    Not sure I follow you - are you saying that those who always politely declined are less acceptable to pro- and anti-Corbyn members than those who resigned after 2016? Speaking as a Corbynist, I'd be fine with those like Yvette who just quietly got on with Select Committee work; I'd need to swallow a bit harder about the active coup-makers (though no doubt I'd get over it!). And I'd think that those who dislike Corbyn would be OK with it too.

    I think Raynr is going to struggle to get a senior position inside a shadow cabinet led by Starmer or Nandy. She has made a mistake in being very publicly supportive of Long-Bailey. What she said on Marr today almost disqualifies her from a major role.

    On Long-Bailey, it's clear that she is not leadership material and that her heart is not really in it, but she has been a lot better than I thought she would be. There will be a role for her should either of her opponents win.

    I'll surprise myself and say I haven't disliked her as much as I thought I would. I saw her on Marr this morning. She has a tiny robotic mouth and a strong Salford accent, which can make it hard to bond with what she's saying, but you do warm to her. She is succinct, very patient and actually does have a sense of humour deep-down.

    The trouble is that what she says is extremely out-there left-wing: like extending collective pay bargaining to as many industries and businesses as possible, and some barking ideas on military action.

    But I've no doubt she'd be a competent shadow cabinet performer.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "America’s elite is plotting revenge
    What if the crisis facing the US is not Donald Trump, but the coming backlash against him?

    BY JUSTIN WEBB"

    https://unherd.com/2020/02/americas-elite-is-plotting-revenge/

    Webb is hardly the most acute observer of US politics.
    His point seems to be that reform to ensure that a President is elected by a majority of those voting and that the larger population States have better representation in the Senate than those with a smaller population would be a bad thing.
    I suspect he’s just repeating some Republican scare stories he’s heard.

    The likelihood of a constitutional amendment to alter representation in the Senate anytime in the next decade is about nil.

    Look at the ERA - still short of enactment after about half a century.
    The ERA just “passed” as I think it was Virginia just passed it taking the total to 38. However, six states have rescinded their ratifications since their initial passing and Congress set a time limit for ratifications which has long since passed. It’s going to the courts of course, but even Ruth Bader Ginsburg recently said she didn’t think there is a case for it having legally passed.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Impostume is, boringly, an abscess.

    And quinsey a peritonsillar abscess.

    I guess most of it essentially meant death by sepsis, or blood poisoning as we used to call it.

    Sobering, imagine dying of toothache?
    Sepsis is the subject of a big advertising campaign by the NHS at the moment. With the threat of anti-biotics losing their efficacy it could be a major killer once again.
    It is a major killer if its not diagnosed v early. It nearly did for my wife but we have an outstanding GP who realised what it was....
    My Dad got it in December, having had cancer removed in October. Not much fun. He is as enthusiastic about life as anyone I have ever met, I have never heard him complain, but it left him very down and nervous afterwards
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    @HYUFD

    Does your username stand for something?

    Is it initials?

    It stands for nothing much but as I have used it for 15 years no point in changing it
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,229
    edited February 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Yet if Labour are to get into power after the next general election it will almost certainly be with LD support and require the LDs to pick up seats in Tory seats in the South.

    Labour needs to gain 124 seats for a majority at the next general election (even without boundary changes favouring the Tories), a feat only 2 opposition leaders have matched or exceeded since WW2, Attlee in 1945 and Blair in 1997

    Good point and probably right. But there's a key observation to make here. We want the LDs doing well when we are ALSO doing well. This spells GTTO. What we do NOT want is the LDs doing well when we are doing badly. Because that spells something entirely different. It spells Tory government and the LDs on their way to muscling us out as HM Opposition. This prospect is what was featuring in Jo Swinson's reveries - if we could have had a window into them - when she called the election. But we saw her off with our Ref2. A little triumph of sorts.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    Regardless, I too am currently going through quite a deep period of depression and it’s been quite the struggle. Especially when the big changes currently ongoing in my life should be happy and exciting (they are happy and exciting, but that doesn’t seem to make a difference). It’s very hard to speak to people about such things, even people who are close. I’m not sure why. When you try and open up, its almost like people don’t know how to deal with it.

    I just wanted to say that I spend a significant amount of “down time” here, especially during such times. The time I spend reading all your (mostly) informative posts outside (sometimes far outside) of my “bubble” is a very enjoyable change of perspective (not only on politics but also about life) and I feel it can only be a good thing to be exposed to such things. I really appreciate this resource and all your contributions to it.

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    It sure can, but it is worth it when you manage it.
  • DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Precisely!

    By protecting their "Lib Dem flank" while exposing their Tory flank they ensured they got an appalling amount of seats despite having a not entirely atrocious share of the vote. Because of what I wrote - losing a vote to the Tories is twice as bad as losing a vote to the Lib Dems.

    If Labour strategists and fanbois don't understand basic maths like that, its a good thing they're not running the country.

    There is a big big aspect that you and others are missing. Here it is -

    If Labour had gone the other way - stuck with their 2017 policy of renegotiated Soft Leave, no Ref2 - there was a very serious risk of losing a ton of seats to the LDs in Remain areas. This could have led to the LDs staking a claim to be the main non-Tory party going forward. Or at least to have taken a giant stride down that path.

    And this is worse for Labour than what happened. It is better to lose big to the Cons but with the LDs crushed than to lose a bit less big to the Cons with the LDs rampant. The latter is what the LDs were hoping for. It is why they went for the election. Labour's approach snuffed it out. It was the best course open to them in the circumstances.
    Yet if Labour are to get into power after the next general election it will almost certainly be with LD support and require the LDs to pick up seats in Tory seats in the South.

    Labour needs to gain 124 seats for a majority at the next general election (even without boundary changes favouring the Tories), a feat only 2 opposition leaders have matched or exceeded since WW2, Attlee in 1945 and Blair in 1997
    So Labour needs to do the thing it has done twice before. The number of seats to be captured is the wrong metric. It is not as if capturing 100 seats is 100 times as hard as winning the first one. The swing needed would be better, because each percentage point will deliver several seats.
    OK, Labour needs a 10.52% swing for a majority of 1, even Blair only got a 10% swing in 1997

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited February 2020
    Another day another Huawei story...

    Chinese company Huawei’s Silicon Valley outpost allegedly stole trade secrets from Cisco

    The U.S. Department of Justice claimed in its racketeering indictment and a news release that Huawei and its Silicon Valley subsidiary stole operating system code and other data needed to make routers, and used the pilfered secrets to make Huawei-branded routers sold in the U.S. The indictment also alleges that five other unnamed U.S. firms were targeted. Cisco is not mentioned by name in the indictment, which refers to "Company 1." But the indictment cites a lawsuit filed in Texas against Futurewei and Huawei over the alleged router-data theft...

    https://www.siliconvalley.com/2020/02/13/chinese-company-huaweis-silicon-valley-outpost-allegedly-stole-trade-secrets-from-cisco/
  • Mark Wood single-handedly losing the game for England here.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,104
    edited February 2020
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    Regardless, I too am currently going through quite a deep period of depression and it’s been quite the struggle. Especially when the big changes currently ongoing in my life should be happy and exciting (they are happy and exciting, but that doesn’t seem to make a difference). It’s very hard to speak to people about such things, even people who are close. I’m not sure why. When you try and open up, its almost like people don’t know how to deal with it.

    I just wanted to say that I spend a significant amount of “down time” here, especially during such times. The time I spend reading all your (mostly) informative posts outside (sometimes far outside) of my “bubble” is a very enjoyable change of perspective (not only on politics but also about life) and I feel it can only be a good thing to be exposed to such things. I really appreciate this resource and all your contributions to it.

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    I do not agree about medication. Our family have had 40 years involved with mental health and the correct medication can be a game changer. It has to be done with clinical advice and it may take a time to land on the correct dosage but sometimes it is needed to deal with chemical imbalances. It has worked for us and I am cautious when advice may be given to avoid medication
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Being with your wife who's giving birth is pretty much up there as traumatic experiences go. I believe that a woman's brain releases a chemical so that they often don't remember how awful it was. It doesn't apply to the husband, unfortunately.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Impostume is, boringly, an abscess.

    And quinsey a peritonsillar abscess.

    I guess most of it essentially meant death by sepsis, or blood poisoning as we used to call it.

    Sobering, imagine dying of toothache?
    Sepsis is the subject of a big advertising campaign by the NHS at the moment. With the threat of anti-biotics losing their efficacy it could be a major killer once again.
    I believe Rupert Brooke died of Sepsis way back in 1915. Incredible it remains quite so deadly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Maternity services are really quite alarming in this country. East Kent is in the news, Shropshire too, but also Morcambe Bay and Wales.

    Blaming it on individuals and single units is avoiding the real crisis issues.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Maternity services are really quite alarming in this country. East Kent is in the news, Shropshire too, but also Morcambe Bay and Wales.

    Blaming it on individuals and single units is avoiding the real crisis issues.
    So why is that @Foxy? Is it lack of resources, failure to apply good practice, what? We have had similar scandals in Scotland too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,229

    Yep, we may end up seeing the age of antibiotics as a tragically brief one. My maternal Angus grand parents, like a lot of working folk, had all their teeth removed in the 1930s as a precautionary measure.

    All 4 of my Gs did that. Amazing when you think about it. And if anybody ever challenges my working class roots, it's a killer and a clincher.

    I really ought to put it in my Class Test. Regardless of what you score on the rest, if you have grandparents who voluntarily had their teeth removed for fear of serious disease and no dentistry, you are PUKKA.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Being with your wife who's giving birth is pretty much up there as traumatic experiences go. I believe that a woman's brain releases a chemical so that they often don't remember how awful it was. It doesn't apply to the husband, unfortunately.
    Um. So confession time.

    I'd been up 26 hours with her and the midwifes had taken pity on me. At the time the doctors rushed in I was asleep on a made up bed on the floor next to hers.

    The doctors asked if she wanted them to wake me up but she said no as I'd then panic and stress her out even more.

    So I slept through the whole thing and only found out after the worst had passed. I woke up c.10 mins before the baby arrived, then received said baby in my arms before she was immediately whisked off to theatre with me left all emotionally overcome by the birth and confused. I was literally left holding the baby by myself for almost two hours.

    I'm a hell of a husband.
  • justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Impostume is, boringly, an abscess.

    And quinsey a peritonsillar abscess.

    I guess most of it essentially meant death by sepsis, or blood poisoning as we used to call it.

    Sobering, imagine dying of toothache?
    Sepsis is the subject of a big advertising campaign by the NHS at the moment. With the threat of anti-biotics losing their efficacy it could be a major killer once again.
    I believe Rupert Brooke died of Sepsis way back in 1915. Incredible it remains quite so deadly.
    Resulting from a humble mossy bite.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    .
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Being with your wife who's giving birth is pretty much up there as traumatic experiences go. I believe that a woman's brain releases a chemical so that they often don't remember how awful it was. It doesn't apply to the husband, unfortunately.
    My son was born via elective Caeserian and I was in and out in 10 mins! They were playing "Low" by Flo Rida in the theatre as he was born, and I video'd his first moments. Building up to it I was convinced I would feint, could barely stand being in the hospital for the scans.
  • Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Maternity services are really quite alarming in this country. East Kent is in the news, Shropshire too, but also Morcambe Bay and Wales.

    Blaming it on individuals and single units is avoiding the real crisis issues.
    I'm not. North Hampshire were superb. Couldn't fault them.

    I even cultivated popularity with the nurses on the ward by buying in a very large and very unofficial Dominos, which they tucked into once they'd checked the coast was clear.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Being with your wife who's giving birth is pretty much up there as traumatic experiences go. I believe that a woman's brain releases a chemical so that they often don't remember how awful it was. It doesn't apply to the husband, unfortunately.
    Um. So confession time.

    I'd been up 26 hours with her and the midwifes had taken pity on me. At the time the doctors rushed in I was asleep on a made up bed on the floor next to hers.

    The doctors asked if she wanted them to wake me up but she said no as I'd then panic and stress her out even more.

    So I slept through the whole thing and only found out after the worst had passed. I woke up c.10 mins before the baby arrived, then received said baby in my arms before she was immediately whisked off to theatre with me left all emotionally overcome by the birth and confused. I was literally left holding the baby by myself for almost two hours.

    I'm a hell of a husband.
    With our first I went out to the reception area of the hospital and bought a book. Its still brought up pretty regularly but in fairness it was only 29 years ago.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Being with your wife who's giving birth is pretty much up there as traumatic experiences go. I believe that a woman's brain releases a chemical so that they often don't remember how awful it was. It doesn't apply to the husband, unfortunately.
    Um. So confession time.

    I'd been up 26 hours with her and the midwifes had taken pity on me. At the time the doctors rushed in I was asleep on a made up bed on the floor next to hers.

    The doctors asked if she wanted them to wake me up but she said no as I'd then panic and stress her out even more.

    So I slept through the whole thing and only found out after the worst had passed. I woke up c.10 mins before the baby arrived, then received said baby in my arms before she was immediately whisked off to theatre with me left all emotionally overcome by the birth and confused. I was literally left holding the baby by myself for almost two hours.

    I'm a hell of a husband.
    Hell of a good husband I would say
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    Regardless, I too am currently going through quite a deep period of depression and it’s been quite the struggle. Especially when the big changes currently ongoing in my life should be happy and exciting (they are happy and exciting, but that doesn’t seem to make a difference). It’s very hard to speak to people about such things, even people who are close. I’m not sure why. When you try and open up, its almost like people don’t know how to deal with it.

    I just wanted to say that I spend a significant amount of “down time” here, especially during such times. The time I spend reading all your (mostly) informative posts outside (sometimes far outside) of my “bubble” is a very enjoyable change of perspective (not only on politics but also about life) and I feel it can only be a good thing to be exposed to such things. I really appreciate this resource and all your contributions to it.

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    I do not agree about medication. Our family have had 40 years involved with mental health and the correct medication can be a game changer. It has to be done with clinical advice and it may take a time to land on the correct dosage but sometimes it is needed to deal with chemical imbalances. It has worked for us and I am cautious when advice may be given to avoid medication
    Agreed.
    There's no right or wrong answer, as I think all cases have their own characteristics, and what works for some doesn't work for others.

    From my family experience, I'd only caution that it's not a problem you should expect to solve, so much as mitigate and learn the best way to live with.

    Sympathetic listeners undoubtedly help, but professional advice is important - though again be aware this can be of greatly varying quality. (As can the help a particular university or university department might offer.)

    I wish Gallowgate all the best.
  • Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    Regardless, I too am currently going through quite a deep period of depression and it’s been quite the struggle. Especially when the big changes currently ongoing in my life should be happy and exciting (they are happy and exciting, but that doesn’t seem to make a difference). It’s very hard to speak to people about such things, even people who are close. I’m not sure why. When you try and open up, its almost like people don’t know how to deal with it.

    I just wanted to say that I spend a significant amount of “down time” here, especially during such times. The time I spend reading all your (mostly) informative posts outside (sometimes far outside) of my “bubble” is a very enjoyable change of perspective (not only on politics but also about life) and I feel it can only be a good thing to be exposed to such things. I really appreciate this resource and all your contributions to it.

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    I do not agree about medication. Our family have had 40 years involved with mental health and the correct medication can be a game changer. It has to be done with clinical advice and it may take a time to land on the correct dosage but sometimes it is needed to deal with chemical imbalances. It has worked for us and I am cautious when advice may be given to avoid medication
    Agreed.
    There's no right or wrong answer, as I think all cases have their own characteristics, and what works for some doesn't work for others.

    From my family experience, I'd only caution that it's not a problem you should expect to solve, so much as mitigate and learn the best way to live with.

    Sympathetic listeners undoubtedly help, but professional advice is important - though again be aware this can be of greatly varying quality. (As can the help a particular university or university department might offer.)

    I wish Gallowgate all the best.
    Agree +1
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    Mark Wood single-handedly losing the game for England here.

    Ffs try and show some positivity.. no doubt you were whining in the last 2020 until we won and then posibly still after we had won......
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Being with your wife who's giving birth is pretty much up there as traumatic experiences go. I believe that a woman's brain releases a chemical so that they often don't remember how awful it was. It doesn't apply to the husband, unfortunately.
    Um. So confession time.

    I'd been up 26 hours with her and the midwifes had taken pity on me. At the time the doctors rushed in I was asleep on a made up bed on the floor next to hers.

    The doctors asked if she wanted them to wake me up but she said no as I'd then panic and stress her out even more.

    So I slept through the whole thing and only found out after the worst had passed. I woke up c.10 mins before the baby arrived, then received said baby in my arms before she was immediately whisked off to theatre with me left all emotionally overcome by the birth and confused. I was literally left holding the baby by myself for almost two hours.

    I'm a hell of a husband.
    Hell of a good husband I would say
    You're very kind.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    Mark Wood single-handedly losing the game for England here.

    Ffs try and show some positivity.. no doubt you were whining in the last 2020 until we won and then posibly still after we had won......
    Anything under 210 and its game on. Anything over that and expect a clatter of wickets.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    @Gallowgate

    Sorry to hear that you are not in the best place. But I think sharing how you feel with us is a positive step. We are one community here on PB, and can pull together when one of us needs a helping hand.

    All the best.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2020

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    Regardless, I too am currently going through quite a deep period of depression and it’s been quite the struggle. Especially when the big changes currently ongoing in my life should be happy and exciting (they are happy and exciting, but that doesn’t seem to make a difference). It’s very hard to speak to people about such things, even people who are close. I’m not sure why. When you try and open up, its almost like people don’t know how to deal with it.

    I just wanted to say that I spend a significant amount of “down time” here, especially during such times. The time I spend reading all your (mostly) informative posts outside (sometimes far outside) of my “bubble” is a very enjoyable change of perspective (not only on politics but also about life) and I feel it can only be a good thing to be exposed to such things. I really appreciate this resource and all your contributions to it.

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    I do not agree about medication. Our family have had 40 years involved with mental health and the correct medication can be a game changer. It has to be done with clinical advice and it may take a time to land on the correct dosage but sometimes it is needed to deal with chemical imbalances. It has worked for us and I am cautious when advice may be given to avoid medication
    Last resort. First off I would say try to get physically fit through excercise and healthy eating as it encourages good mental health too. I have seen many such cases as well as personal experience.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Being with your wife who's giving birth is pretty much up there as traumatic experiences go. I believe that a woman's brain releases a chemical so that they often don't remember how awful it was. It doesn't apply to the husband, unfortunately.
    Um. So confession time.

    I'd been up 26 hours with her and the midwifes had taken pity on me. At the time the doctors rushed in I was asleep on a made up bed on the floor next to hers.

    The doctors asked if she wanted them to wake me up but she said no as I'd then panic and stress her out even more.

    So I slept through the whole thing and only found out after the worst had passed. I woke up c.10 mins before the baby arrived, then received said baby in my arms before she was immediately whisked off to theatre with me left all emotionally overcome by the birth and confused. I was literally left holding the baby by myself for almost two hours.

    I'm a hell of a husband.
    Hell of a good husband I would say
    You're very kind.
    You were there when baby was born and there when you were needed most

    The very essence of a good husband
  • kinabalu said:

    Precisely!

    By protecting their "Lib Dem flank" while exposing their Tory flank they ensured they got an appalling amount of seats despite having a not entirely atrocious share of the vote. Because of what I wrote - losing a vote to the Tories is twice as bad as losing a vote to the Lib Dems.

    If Labour strategists and fanbois don't understand basic maths like that, its a good thing they're not running the country.

    There is a big big aspect that you and others are missing. Here it is -

    If Labour had gone the other way - stuck with their 2017 policy of renegotiated Soft Leave, no Ref2 - there was a very serious risk of losing a ton of seats to the LDs in Remain areas. This could have led to the LDs staking a claim to be the main non-Tory party going forward. Or at least to have taken a giant stride down that path.

    And this is worse for Labour than what happened. It is better to lose big to the Cons but with the LDs crushed than to lose a bit less big to the Cons with the LDs rampant. The latter is what the LDs were hoping for. It is why they went for the election. Labour's approach snuffed it out. It was the best course open to them in the circumstances.
    No there wasn't. There was not the risk of losing a hundred seats to the LDs in Remain areas.

    Its a simple exercise: How many Remain seats did Labour have that were Lib Dem targets and what level of swing was required to see them fall?

    The numbers are not there. There were a handful of Lib Dem target seats, there was a plethora of Tory target seats.
  • Good luck to @Gallowgate - I’d echo @isam’s advice that if you can exercise regularly it really will help. Make sure you get and follow professional help.

    And be patient. It’s a long road.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    Regardless, I too am currently going through quite a deep period of depression and it’s been quite the struggle. Especially when the big changes currently ongoing in my life should be happy and exciting (they are happy and exciting, but that doesn’t seem to make a difference). It’s very hard to speak to people about such things, even people who are close. I’m not sure why. When you try and open up, its almost like people don’t know how to deal with it.

    I just wanted to say that I spend a significant amount of “down time” here, especially during such times. The time I spend reading all your (mostly) informative posts outside (sometimes far outside) of my “bubble” is a very enjoyable change of perspective (not only on politics but also about life) and I feel it can only be a good thing to be exposed to such things. I really appreciate this resource and all your contributions to it.

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    I do not agree about medication. Our family have had 40 years involved with mental health and the correct medication can be a game changer. It has to be done with clinical advice and it may take a time to land on the correct dosage but sometimes it is needed to deal with chemical imbalances. It has worked for us and I am cautious when advice may be given to avoid medication
    Last resort. First off I would say try to get physically fit through excercise and healthy eating as it encourages good mental health too. I have seen many such cases as well as personal experience.
    In my family's experience I would agree. I also think that talking therapies such as CBT and MBT can be more effective than medication. But there is no one answer to this. All the best @Gallowgate.
  • isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    Regardless, I too am currently going through quite a deep period of depression and it’s been quite the struggle. Especially when the big changes currently ongoing in my life should be happy and exciting (they are happy and exciting, but that doesn’t seem to make a difference). It’s very hard to speak to people about such things, even people who are close. I’m not sure why. When you try and open up, its almost like people don’t know how to deal with it.

    I just wanted to say that I spend a significant amount of “down time” here, especially during such times. The time I spend reading all your (mostly) informative posts outside (sometimes far outside) of my “bubble” is a very enjoyable change of perspective (not only on politics but also about life) and I feel it can only be a good thing to be exposed to such things. I really appreciate this resource and all your contributions to it.

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    I do not agree about medication. Our family have had 40 years involved with mental health and the correct medication can be a game changer. It has to be done with clinical advice and it may take a time to land on the correct dosage but sometimes it is needed to deal with chemical imbalances. It has worked for us and I am cautious when advice may be given to avoid medication
    Last resort. First off I would say try to get physically fit through excercise and healthy eating as it encourages good mental health too. I have seen many such cases as well as personal experience.
    It isn't really last resort. For some maybe, but many need chemical imbalances to be addressed

    I do not want anyone to feel that medication is a last resort in mental health
  • Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nearly three times as many died of TB (though I suspect ‘consumption’ might include other diseases) as old age.
    And to die of several accidents.... :smile:

    Planet ??

    And the poor unfortunate carried away by piles.
    What is "Planet"?
    Indeed.
    I suppose if you fell from a great height, the impact with our planet....

    Impostume... Quinsey...
    "Rising of the lights"?????
    Lights = Lungs, so Bronchitis/Emphysema?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    DavidL said:

    Mark Wood single-handedly losing the game for England here.

    Ffs try and show some positivity.. no doubt you were whining in the last 2020 until we won and then posibly still after we had won......
    Anything under 210 and its game on. Anything over that and expect a clatter of wickets.
    210 up and an over to go. Gulp.
  • Target 223
  • Next cabinet meeting.

    Boris: Ok guys, how many dead kids a year is it worth for the societal benefits gained by giving everyone modafinil once a week?

    Priti looks to Hancock and Hancock looks to Priti as they both work out which of them is going to first dumbo to pipe up.
  • Mark Wood single-handedly losing the game for England here.

    Ffs try and show some positivity.. no doubt you were whining in the last 2020 until we won and then posibly still after we had won......
    Well cricviz (flawed) model has England as 60/40 favourites...is that positive enough?

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,229

    No there wasn't. There was not the risk of losing a hundred seats to the LDs in Remain areas.

    Its a simple exercise: How many Remain seats did Labour have that were Lib Dem targets and what level of swing was required to see them fall?

    The numbers are not there. There were a handful of Lib Dem target seats, there was a plethora of Tory target seats.

    Let me rephrase so that it doesn't look like I was saying that YOU were wrong. I think it will be less stressful for both of us that way.

    OK -

    So I simply added into the debate the fear that Labour have of the LDs starting to look like contenders for main non-Tory opposition party if they have a great election (picking up lots of seats from both sides) at the same time as Labour have a very poor one. The debate was missing this angle and it is quite an important one. It would have played into Labour thinking when considering their GE tactics.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    Mark Wood single-handedly losing the game for England here.

    Ffs try and show some positivity.. no doubt you were whining in the last 2020 until we won and then posibly still after we had won......
    Well cricviz (flawed) model has England as 60/40 favourites...is that positive enough?

    Betfair have SA 1/3. I think that's more like it tbh.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,294
    edited February 2020

    I think Raynr is going to struggle to get a senior position inside a shadow cabinet led by Starmer or Nandy. She has made a mistake in being very publicly supportive of Long-Bailey. What she said on Marr today almost disqualifies her from a major role.

    On Long-Bailey, it's clear that she is not leadership material and that her heart is not really in it, but she has been a lot better than I thought she would be. There will be a role for her should either of her opponents win.

    If Starmer wins, I expect RLB and Rayner will neither be promoted nor demoted, but will retain their current briefs. Nandy, I think, will almost certainly be offered a big role... probably Shadow Home Secretary. Burgon hopefully will be sacked, while I expect Starmer will try and bring Cooper, Reeves, and Ed back into the fold.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    Regardless, I too am currently going through quite a deep period of depression and it’s been quite the struggle. Especially when the big changes currently ongoing in my life should be happy and exciting (they are happy and exciting, but that doesn’t seem to make a difference). It’s very hard to speak to people about such things, even people who are close. I’m not sure why. When you try and open up, its almost like people don’t know how to deal with it.

    I just wanted to say that I spend a significant amount of “down time” here, especially during such times. The time I spend reading all your (mostly) informative posts outside (sometimes far outside) of my “bubble” is a very enjoyable change of perspective (not only on politics but also about life) and I feel it can only be a good thing to be exposed to such things. I really appreciate this resource and all your contributions to it.

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    It certainly is sometimes. Swimming is a good option in my experience once you do get out of the front door.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    .

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    I do not agree about medication. Our family have had 40 years involved with mental health and the correct medication can be a game changer. It has to be done with clinical advice and it may take a time to land on the correct dosage but sometimes it is needed to deal with chemical imbalances. It has worked for us and I am cautious when advice may be given to avoid medication
    Last resort. First off I would say try to get physically fit through excercise and healthy eating as it encourages good mental health too. I have seen many such cases as well as personal experience.
    It isn't really last resort. For some maybe, but many need chemical imbalances to be addressed

    I do not want anyone to feel that medication is a last resort in mental health
    Why not? Are you recommending it should be the first port of call?

    @Gallowgate is young man, he doesn't need to be rattling around like Dot Cotton until he has exhausted every other avenue, and I would expect a Doctor in 2020 to say similar
  • kinabalu said:

    No there wasn't. There was not the risk of losing a hundred seats to the LDs in Remain areas.

    Its a simple exercise: How many Remain seats did Labour have that were Lib Dem targets and what level of swing was required to see them fall?

    The numbers are not there. There were a handful of Lib Dem target seats, there was a plethora of Tory target seats.

    Let me rephrase so that it doesn't look like I was saying that YOU were wrong. I think it will be less stressful for both of us that way.

    OK -

    So I simply added into the debate the fear that Labour have of the LDs starting to look like contenders for main non-Tory opposition party if they have a great election (picking up lots of seats from both sides) at the same time as Labour have a very poor one. The debate was missing this angle and it is quite an important one. It would have played into Labour thinking when considering their GE tactics.
    So let me see if I have this right?

    You are saying that despite the election strategy being a total disaster, despite the fact it led to the Tories getting a massive majority, that it was the right strategy for Labour because its better for Labour if the Tories get a large majority than for there to be a smaller majority or Hung Parliament with the Lib Dems in a healthier state?

    Better to lose many more seats to the Tories than smaller amounts to the Lib Dems?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Well now. This - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/new-chancellor-rishi-sunak-cashed-in-on-fund-that-helped-break-banks-rb7zgfqkz - is very interesting indeed.

    I know a very great deal about this matter, far more than has ever been made public.

    How can I put it? When I have been involved in a matter it is not because everything was tickety boo. Quite the opposite in fact. Very much the opposite in this case, in fact.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    DavidL said:

    Mark Wood single-handedly losing the game for England here.

    Ffs try and show some positivity.. no doubt you were whining in the last 2020 until we won and then posibly still after we had won......
    Well cricviz (flawed) model has England as 60/40 favourites...is that positive enough?

    Betfair have SA 1/3. I think that's more like it tbh.
    So difficult to judge what the right price is when a team have smashed the first Inns IMO. I seem to notice teams chasing often lose a wicket in the first over
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    edited February 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    Well now. This - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/new-chancellor-rishi-sunak-cashed-in-on-fund-that-helped-break-banks-rb7zgfqkz - is very interesting indeed.

    I know a very great deal about this matter, far more than has ever been made public.

    How can I put it? When I have been involved in a matter it is not because everything was tickety boo. Quite the opposite in fact. Very much the opposite in this case, in fact.

    Blimey.
    So our new Chancellor had a small part in precipitating the banking crisis... ?


    Speaking of blimey...
    https://twitter.com/johncurtinEA/status/1229009897326555136
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    kinabalu said:

    No there wasn't. There was not the risk of losing a hundred seats to the LDs in Remain areas.

    Its a simple exercise: How many Remain seats did Labour have that were Lib Dem targets and what level of swing was required to see them fall?

    The numbers are not there. There were a handful of Lib Dem target seats, there was a plethora of Tory target seats.

    Let me rephrase so that it doesn't look like I was saying that YOU were wrong. I think it will be less stressful for both of us that way.

    OK -

    So I simply added into the debate the fear that Labour have of the LDs starting to look like contenders for main non-Tory opposition party if they have a great election (picking up lots of seats from both sides) at the same time as Labour have a very poor one. The debate was missing this angle and it is quite an important one. It would have played into Labour thinking when considering their GE tactics.
    So let me see if I have this right?

    You are saying that despite the election strategy being a total disaster, despite the fact it led to the Tories getting a massive majority, that it was the right strategy for Labour because its better for Labour if the Tories get a large majority than for there to be a smaller majority or Hung Parliament with the Lib Dems in a healthier state?

    Better to lose many more seats to the Tories than smaller amounts to the Lib Dems?
    Yes indeed. Because the system favours them, and the LibDems are a threat to the system itself. Sooner or later - later in this case, but still - Labour believes it will enjoy majority power again, delivered on a minority vote.

    Enduring the other side enjoying the same meanwhile is the price. Sadly it’s one we all have to pay.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    .

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    I do not agree about medication. Our family have had 40 years involved with mental health and the correct medication can be a game changer. It has to be done with clinical advice and it may take a time to land on the correct dosage but sometimes it is needed to deal with chemical imbalances. It has worked for us and I am cautious when advice may be given to avoid medication
    Last resort. First off I would say try to get physically fit through excercise and healthy eating as it encourages good mental health too. I have seen many such cases as well as personal experience.
    It isn't really last resort. For some maybe, but many need chemical imbalances to be addressed

    I do not want anyone to feel that medication is a last resort in mental health
    Why not? Are you recommending it should be the first port of call?

    @Gallowgate is young man, he doesn't need to be rattling around like Dot Cotton until he has exhausted every other avenue, and I would expect a Doctor in 2020 to say similar
    Rather than get in a war over it, I'd leave specific advice to the professionals.

    Pretty well all research into depression indicates there are no hard and fast rules.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Well now. This - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/new-chancellor-rishi-sunak-cashed-in-on-fund-that-helped-break-banks-rb7zgfqkz - is very interesting indeed.

    I know a very great deal about this matter, far more than has ever been made public.

    How can I put it? When I have been involved in a matter it is not because everything was tickety boo. Quite the opposite in fact. Very much the opposite in this case, in fact.

    I can't read that behind the paywall. Does that imply that Sunak did anything wrong? Or did he see what was coming before others and thus benefit from it?

    Is the story that he was involved with a hedge fund that had a similar role to Soros on Black Wednesday? I don't believe Soros did anything wrong then.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    In light of the tragic Caroline Flack affair and various similar events, I just wanted to make a personal and off-topic comment in order to get something off my chest. I apologise if this is the wrong outlet for this and clearly it has nothing to do with betting on politics so please feel free to ignore.

    .

    Spending a lot of time arguing on forums such as this is surely as good an indicator of depression or loneliness as any, if you think about it. Hope you are alright. If I feel the way you do I try to get a lot more exercise and fresh air in. Not to belittle it, but it really does work and in the long term is better than pills in my opinion, if you were tempted to take them
    Sometimes getting out of the front door to be able to exercise can be a formidable challenge.
    I do not agree about medication. Our family have had 40 years involved with mental health and the correct medication can be a game changer. It has to be done with clinical advice and it may take a time to land on the correct dosage but sometimes it is needed to deal with chemical imbalances. It has worked for us and I am cautious when advice may be given to avoid medication
    Last resort. First off I would say try to get physically fit through excercise and healthy eating as it encourages good mental health too. I have seen many such cases as well as personal experience.
    It isn't really last resort. For some maybe, but many need chemical imbalances to be addressed

    I do not want anyone to feel that medication is a last resort in mental health
    Why not? Are you recommending it should be the first port of call?

    @Gallowgate is young man, he doesn't need to be rattling around like Dot Cotton until he has exhausted every other avenue, and I would expect a Doctor in 2020 to say similar
    Rather than get in a war over it, I'd leave specific advice to the professionals.

    Pretty well all research into depression indicates there are no hard and fast rules.
    'War' is a tiny bit of a stretch I'd say!

    I am not claiming to be a professional, but I have experience of this and so am relating it to someone who has said they are suffering. If someone else thinks popping pharmaceuticals is a better idea, that's down to them.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    isam said:

    DavidL said:

    Mark Wood single-handedly losing the game for England here.

    Ffs try and show some positivity.. no doubt you were whining in the last 2020 until we won and then posibly still after we had won......
    Well cricviz (flawed) model has England as 60/40 favourites...is that positive enough?

    Betfair have SA 1/3. I think that's more like it tbh.
    So difficult to judge what the right price is when a team have smashed the first Inns IMO. I seem to notice teams chasing often lose a wicket in the first over
    Second over. England really under the cosh here.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,229
    edited February 2020

    So let me see if I have this right?

    You are saying that despite the election strategy being a total disaster, despite the fact it led to the Tories getting a massive majority, that it was the right strategy for Labour because its better for Labour if the Tories get a large majority than for there to be a smaller majority or Hung Parliament with the Lib Dems in a healthier state?

    Better to lose many more seats to the Tories than smaller amounts to the Lib Dems?

    Not exactly. My point is that Labour fear of the LDs threatening their Big 2 position would have been a factor in going for Ref2. And I raise this since it's important and nobody else is.

    Consider the alternative scenario of sticking with Soft Delayed Leave as their policy. Saves some Red Wall seats but perhaps not many since Soft Delayed Leave is no match in Leavers minds (or in the minds of those simply fed up with the impasse) for "Boris" and his Get Brexit Done NOW.

    But it costs some seats to the LDs. PLUS the LDs take a lot of Con seats - as they were expected to do, remember, when all this stuff was being worked out. How many seats go to the LDs? Hard to know. But there was a very real and non-negligible risk that they could have taken off like a rocket if they had been the one Remain Party at the GE. Plus the LDs could have stuck with Ref2 then. No need for that Revoke pivot.

    OK. So Labour's Ref2 offer focused on this risk and nullified it.

    It was a factor, Philip, there's no doubt about that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037

    I think Raynr is going to struggle to get a senior position inside a shadow cabinet led by Starmer or Nandy. She has made a mistake in being very publicly supportive of Long-Bailey. What she said on Marr today almost disqualifies her from a major role.

    On Long-Bailey, it's clear that she is not leadership material and that her heart is not really in it, but she has been a lot better than I thought she would be. There will be a role for her should either of her opponents win.

    If Starmer wins, I expect RLB and Rayner will neither be promoted nor demoted, but will retain their current briefs. Nandy, I think, will almost certainly be offered a big role... probably Shadow Home Secretary. Burgon hopefully will be sacked, while I expect Starmer will try and bring Cooper, Reeves, and Ed back into the fold.
    I agree on Nandy as Shadow Home Secretary. I'm thinking Reeves for Shadow Chancellor. Thornberry to stay put.

    Cooper Shadow Justice. EdM Shadow BEIS.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,229
    IanB2 said:

    Yes indeed. Because the system favours them, and the LibDems are a threat to the system itself. Sooner or later - later in this case, but still - Labour believes it will enjoy majority power again, delivered on a minority vote.

    Enduring the other side enjoying the same meanwhile is the price. Sadly it’s one we all have to pay.

    You have it, Ian. We would rather have a big Con majority with the LDs crushed than a smaller Con majority with the LDs rampant and staking a claim as serious contenders for HM Opposition next time.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    This thread has been replaced by one appointed by Dominic Cummings...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    HYUFD said:



    Looks nailed on, 5-4 odds with powers if anyone would like free money.

    Fair enough, FF, FG and the Greens combined represent over 50% of Irish voters, only 24% of them voted for Sinn Fein
    Like UK the old corrupt establishment parties hanging on at the trough as long as they can. Next time they will get what the Labour and Tory regional parties in Scot have had since 2007, consigned to the bin.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,229
    Cyclefree said:

    Well now. This - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/new-chancellor-rishi-sunak-cashed-in-on-fund-that-helped-break-banks-rb7zgfqkz - is very interesting indeed.

    I know a very great deal about this matter, far more than has ever been made public.

    How can I put it? When I have been involved in a matter it is not because everything was tickety boo. Quite the opposite in fact. Very much the opposite in this case, in fact.

    Don't know about the HF angle but certainly that deal - RBS acquiring ABN - will go down in the annals as the absolute epitome of the hubris and "Big Boy" idiocy which almost brought the House down back then - and would have done absent the injection of a gigantic amount of public money.

    And what I always found amusing was that the supposedly super shrewd Bob Diamond was only prevented from bankrupting Barclays with the same deal on account of being outbid by the Bigger Boy, Sir Fred.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Impostume is, boringly, an abscess.

    And quinsey a peritonsillar abscess.

    I guess most of it essentially meant death by sepsis, or blood poisoning as we used to call it.

    Sobering, imagine dying of toothache?
    Sepsis is the subject of a big advertising campaign by the NHS at the moment. With the threat of anti-biotics losing their efficacy it could be a major killer once again.
    What do you mean again David , in 2017 it killed 11 million , at least 1 in 5 of all deaths is Sepsis.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Learned nothing, forgotten nothing.

    https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1207614350363631616

    Worth a read, covers Labour's responses to the General Election defeat of 1983.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    It's the infant mortality that's so depressing there.
    And 171 women in childbed. Very dangerous business giving birth in those days.
    It's pretty dangerous these days too.

    My wife almost had a cardiac arrest giving birth to our daughter last year, and suffered a 70% third degree tear.

    It's very upsetting to think that "back in the day", the birthing process, or the blood loss or post natal septicemia or infection could have killed her, even if the baby survived (which it might not have either as formula milk wasn't a thing then).
    Maternity services are really quite alarming in this country. East Kent is in the news, Shropshire too, but also Morcambe Bay and Wales.

    Blaming it on individuals and single units is avoiding the real crisis issues.
    So why is that @Foxy? Is it lack of resources, failure to apply good practice, what? We have had similar scandals in Scotland too.
    FPT:

    I would say that the widespread geography of the scandals shows a systematic problems rather than unit specific. It is worth noting that while our maternal and perinatal mortality is poorer than most of Europe, it is better than the USA. I wouldn't want to pre-judge any enquiry, but would suggest the following merit attention:

    1) the toxic relationships between midwives and obstetricians and anaesthetists, going back even before the Wendy Savage business in the Eighties.

    2) the collapse of Obstetrics from one of the most oversubscribed specialities 20 years ago, to struggling to fill training slots.

    3) this may well explain the difficulties providing adequate and competent Labour ward cover, and increasing burden on ageing senior Consultants.

    4) the Cinderella nature of a speciality that has become a money loser for Trusts. There are no targets, unlike waiting list oriented specialities, nor interest by the vulture capitalists of the independent sector. No targets means minimal investment.

    5) the rising demand, not just from birthrate, but also from older mothers, and increase in multiple births. All in an increasingly litigious environment.

    There are more issues, and sadly not easy ones to fix.
This discussion has been closed.