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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Key GE2019 party constituency stats from the Commons Library a

SystemSystem Posts: 12,170
edited January 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Key GE2019 party constituency stats from the Commons Library analysis

Just before the Christmas break the Commons library published its analysis of the December general election and the above are some of the sets of data that relate to the main national parties.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,768
    First.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,768
    Good to see Crudas hang on in Dagenham. Labour will need people who can think in coming years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited January 2020
    Labour's safest seat had a drop od nearly 5% in their share. Granted, that sill mean they are on around 81% but it could be a marginal soon! Good to see the unionists did their bit in Fife. LD 4 in Scotland still in their top five marginals though, yeesh.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Bootle only fourth safest? :o

    Top target in 2024.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,768
    Biden’s support has not wavered, especially among people of color and disaffected whites — a coalition no other candidate can match. Once the nominating process gets past the white and unrepresentative states of Iowa and New Hampshire, the new America will show its power: States representing one-third of the United States population will vote on Super Tuesday, March 3. Biden is well positioned.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/opinion/joe-biden-age.html
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Tranmere were matched at 1000 to win and 350 to draw during this match. A few minutes left and they are 3-3 from 3-0 down and against 10 men!
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Biden’s support has not wavered, especially among people of color and disaffected whites — a coalition no other candidate can match. Once the nominating process gets past the white and unrepresentative states of Iowa and New Hampshire, the new America will show its power: States representing one-third of the United States population will vote on Super Tuesday, March 3. Biden is well positioned.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/opinion/joe-biden-age.html

    I agree with this, except that Iowa and NH could hurt him. We forget at our peril how big the swings in support can be one votes start being cast, but Biden is definitely very well positioned.

    He isn't that bad in Iowa/NH either. I think there's an underrated scenario where he wins one and does well in the other, wins big in SC/NV and it's basically over once Super Tuesday happens.
  • BantermanBanterman Posts: 287
    Has there ever been a general election loser who have doubled down on their 2 key points of failures, than Labour at the moment on Corbyn and Brexit. Its is beyond comprehension.

    And on top of that Corbyn pops up to remind everyone what a major security risk he is, with his reaction to the death of Iran's terror controller.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    It's interesting that both the LDs and Tories made their biggest gains in Tory seats. I think this is part of a trend, not an oddity of the 2019 election. The Tory coalition is becoming more socially conservative and Northern, the Lib Dems are finding new fertile territory in socially liberal southerners. I suspect the Lib Dems might do less well than we think in the South West in future, but will make further vote share gains in the South and South East.

    Much as Labour Leave voters who left the party didn't only disagree with Labour on Brexit, Tory Remainers who left and could leave are likely to have broad issues with the path the Tories are taking.

    Another reason I think this will last is it makes sense for both sides. The Lib Dems might gain a dozen Tory seats next election without a huge vote increase, they were a bit unlucky in 2019 with a few seats. And the Tories will win/hold more Northern/Midland seats from Labour than they'll lose down South; at least for another election or two.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    Banterman said:

    Has there ever been a general election loser who have doubled down on their 2 key points of failures, than Labour at the moment on Corbyn and Brexit. Its is beyond comprehension.

    And on top of that Corbyn pops up to remind everyone what a major security risk he is, with his reaction to the death of Iran's terror controller.

    Re: the second statement from the second paragraph. Welcome to PB Mr Pompeo.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    edited January 2020
    Quincel said:

    Biden’s support has not wavered, especially among people of color and disaffected whites — a coalition no other candidate can match. Once the nominating process gets past the white and unrepresentative states of Iowa and New Hampshire, the new America will show its power: States representing one-third of the United States population will vote on Super Tuesday, March 3. Biden is well positioned.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/opinion/joe-biden-age.html

    I agree with this, except that Iowa and NH could hurt him. We forget at our peril how big the swings in support can be one votes start being cast, but Biden is definitely very well positioned.

    He isn't that bad in Iowa/NH either. I think there's an underrated scenario where he wins one and does well in the other, wins big in SC/NV and it's basically over once Super Tuesday happens.
    I've been buying Biden pretty consistently since the last Democratic debate, and he's now my second biggest winner (after Buttigieg). I think this analysis is spot on: Biden has been working Iowa pretty hard, and 538 reckons he's now in the lead there. If he were to win it, then it's pretty much all over.

    Even if he doesn't win it, so long as he polls well, then he's in a great position given he should clean up in SC.

    The only really plausible way for Biden to lose is if another moderate (probably Buttigieg, maybe Klobuchar) wins Iowa, and then picks up New Hampshire. In that case, I think a lot of "establishment" Democrats would start to swing behind the the winner of the first two primaries, and Biden's lead would evaporate.

    But right now, that's a relatively low probability event (say 15-20%). Biden's price is far too low, buy him. (And keep selling Clinton and Bloomberg.)

    (My Democratic nomination book looks pretty good, all things considered. I got on Pete very early, and then sold Clinton in ridiculous size in the low teens. I'm Green on basically everyone except Williamson, Clinton and Bloomberg.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.

    As an aside, the January debate is going to be everyone vs Biden. Simply, the second tier candidates have hammered each other, and now everyone will be piling on Biden. It will be interesting to see how it goes.
  • BantermanBanterman Posts: 287

    Banterman said:

    Has there ever been a general election loser who have doubled down on their 2 key points of failures, than Labour at the moment on Corbyn and Brexit. Its is beyond comprehension.

    And on top of that Corbyn pops up to remind everyone what a major security risk he is, with his reaction to the death of Iran's terror controller.

    Re: the second statement from the second paragraph. Welcome to PB Mr Pompeo.
    That was what he was. Its similar to taking out someone like Himmler in WW2.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,768
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.

    Now we are getting down to it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,768
    Gabs3 said:
    Nikki Haley will be the first woman POTUS imho.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,768
    rcs1000 said:

    Quincel said:

    Biden’s support has not wavered, especially among people of color and disaffected whites — a coalition no other candidate can match. Once the nominating process gets past the white and unrepresentative states of Iowa and New Hampshire, the new America will show its power: States representing one-third of the United States population will vote on Super Tuesday, March 3. Biden is well positioned.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/opinion/joe-biden-age.html

    I agree with this, except that Iowa and NH could hurt him. We forget at our peril how big the swings in support can be one votes start being cast, but Biden is definitely very well positioned.

    He isn't that bad in Iowa/NH either. I think there's an underrated scenario where he wins one and does well in the other, wins big in SC/NV and it's basically over once Super Tuesday happens.
    I've been buying Biden pretty consistently since the last Democratic debate, and he's now my second biggest winner (after Buttigieg). I think this analysis is spot on: Biden has been working Iowa pretty hard, and 538 reckons he's now in the lead there. If he were to win it, then it's pretty much all over.

    Even if he doesn't win it, so long as he polls well, then he's in a great position given he should clean up in SC.

    The only really plausible way for Biden to lose is if another moderate (probably Buttigieg, maybe Klobuchar) wins Iowa, and then picks up New Hampshire. In that case, I think a lot of "establishment" Democrats would start to swing behind the the winner of the first two primaries, and Biden's lead would evaporate.

    But right now, that's a relatively low probability event (say 15-20%). Biden's price is far too low, buy him. (And keep selling Clinton and Bloomberg.)

    (My Democratic nomination book looks pretty good, all things considered. I got on Pete very early, and then sold Clinton in ridiculous size in the low teens. I'm Green on basically everyone except Williamson, Clinton and Bloomberg.)
    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:

    Quincel said:

    Biden’s support has not wavered, especially among people of color and disaffected whites — a coalition no other candidate can match. Once the nominating process gets past the white and unrepresentative states of Iowa and New Hampshire, the new America will show its power: States representing one-third of the United States population will vote on Super Tuesday, March 3. Biden is well positioned.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/opinion/joe-biden-age.html

    I agree with this, except that Iowa and NH could hurt him. We forget at our peril how big the swings in support can be one votes start being cast, but Biden is definitely very well positioned.

    He isn't that bad in Iowa/NH either. I think there's an underrated scenario where he wins one and does well in the other, wins big in SC/NV and it's basically over once Super Tuesday happens.
    I've been buying Biden pretty consistently since the last Democratic debate, and he's now my second biggest winner (after Buttigieg). I think this analysis is spot on: Biden has been working Iowa pretty hard, and 538 reckons he's now in the lead there. If he were to win it, then it's pretty much all over.

    Even if he doesn't win it, so long as he polls well, then he's in a great position given he should clean up in SC.

    The only really plausible way for Biden to lose is if another moderate (probably Buttigieg, maybe Klobuchar) wins Iowa, and then picks up New Hampshire. In that case, I think a lot of "establishment" Democrats would start to swing behind the the winner of the first two primaries, and Biden's lead would evaporate.

    But right now, that's a relatively low probability event (say 15-20%). Biden's price is far too low, buy him. (And keep selling Clinton and Bloomberg.)

    (My Democratic nomination book looks pretty good, all things considered. I got on Pete very early, and then sold Clinton in ridiculous size in the low teens. I'm Green on basically everyone except Williamson, Clinton and Bloomberg.)
    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.
    I'm only mildly Green on him, and that's only because I'm out a five figure sum if Clinton wins.

    For the record, I'm not losing any sleep over my Clinton position. Given she's not on the ballot in any of the states. And there is next to no chance that the DNC would hand the nomination to someone who got null delegates.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.

    And not one person of colour. Really embarrassing for the DNC.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffreyvs/status/1213319500822646785
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Quincel said:

    Biden’s support has not wavered, especially among people of color and disaffected whites — a coalition no other candidate can match. Once the nominating process gets past the white and unrepresentative states of Iowa and New Hampshire, the new America will show its power: States representing one-third of the United States population will vote on Super Tuesday, March 3. Biden is well positioned.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/opinion/joe-biden-age.html

    I agree with this, except that Iowa and NH could hurt him. We forget at our peril how big the swings in support can be one votes start being cast, but Biden is definitely very well positioned.

    He isn't that bad in Iowa/NH either. I think there's an underrated scenario where he wins one and does well in the other, wins big in SC/NV and it's basically over once Super Tuesday happens.
    I've been buying Biden pretty consistently since the last Democratic debate, and he's now my second biggest winner (after Buttigieg). I think this analysis is spot on: Biden has been working Iowa pretty hard, and 538 reckons he's now in the lead there. If he were to win it, then it's pretty much all over.

    Even if he doesn't win it, so long as he polls well, then he's in a great position given he should clean up in SC.

    The only really plausible way for Biden to lose is if another moderate (probably Buttigieg, maybe Klobuchar) wins Iowa, and then picks up New Hampshire. In that case, I think a lot of "establishment" Democrats would start to swing behind the the winner of the first two primaries, and Biden's lead would evaporate.

    But right now, that's a relatively low probability event (say 15-20%). Biden's price is far too low, buy him. (And keep selling Clinton and Bloomberg.)

    (My Democratic nomination book looks pretty good, all things considered. I got on Pete very early, and then sold Clinton in ridiculous size in the low teens. I'm Green on basically everyone except Williamson, Clinton and Bloomberg.)
    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.
    I'm only mildly Green on him, and that's only because I'm out a five figure sum if Clinton wins.

    For the record, I'm not losing any sleep over my Clinton position. Given she's not on the ballot in any of the states. And there is next to no chance that the DNC would hand the nomination to someone who got null delegates.
    If they do, it's going to be Michelle Obama....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.

    Re Bernie, his big, big problem is that he's no-one's second choice.

    If Sanders drops out, his support goes to Warren.
    If Buttigieg drops out, his support goes to Biden and Warren and Klobuchar.
    If Biden drops out, his support goes to whichever establishment Democrat remains.
    If Warren drops out, her vote splits equally between Sanders, Biden and Buttigieg.

    Given that, it's hard to see how he wins the nomination, because even if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, the establishment will end up coalescing on a single candidate, and that person (whoever it is) hammers Bernie.

    There also has to be a not-insignificant chance that he has another health issue in the next 12 months.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Amazing regionalism in those results for all the parties.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm only mildly Green on him, and that's only because I'm out a five figure sum if Clinton wins.

    For the record, I'm not losing any sleep over my Clinton position. Given she's not on the ballot in any of the states. And there is next to no chance that the DNC would hand the nomination to someone who got null delegates.

    If they do, it's going to be Michelle Obama....
    She'd be a more likely nominee than Ms Clinton. (Checks book... and I am actually green on her...)

    But my M Obama position is simply a consequence of selling Clinton and Bloomberg and various others who were ridiculously overpriced at one point or another. (Mr Yang...)
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    kle4 said:

    Labour's safest seat had a drop od nearly 5% in their share. Granted, that sill mean they are on around 81% but it could be a marginal soon! Good to see the unionists did their bit in Fife. LD 4 in Scotland still in their top five marginals though, yeesh.

    The YouGov MRP warned about Libdem vulnerability in Scotland.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Bernie is going to win Iowa.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    rcs1000 said:

    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.

    Re Bernie, his big, big problem is that he's no-one's second choice.

    If Sanders drops out, his support goes to Warren.
    If Buttigieg drops out, his support goes to Biden and Warren and Klobuchar.
    If Biden drops out, his support goes to whichever establishment Democrat remains.
    If Warren drops out, her vote splits equally between Sanders, Biden and Buttigieg.

    Given that, it's hard to see how he wins the nomination, because even if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, the establishment will end up coalescing on a single candidate, and that person (whoever it is) hammers Bernie.

    There also has to be a not-insignificant chance that he has another health issue in the next 12 months.
    I'd have thought that a lot of Warren's support will go to him. Do you hsave evidence to the contrary? I agree that the others much less so.

    But Biden's steady lead is impressive anyway. Sometimes favourites do just go on and win, despite all the media efforts to make it more exciting.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,768
    nunu2 said:

    Bernie is going to win Iowa.

    That will age well :smiley:
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    Banterman said:

    Has there ever been a general election loser who have doubled down on their 2 key points of failures, than Labour at the moment on Corbyn and Brexit. Its is beyond comprehension.

    And on top of that Corbyn pops up to remind everyone what a major security risk he is, with his reaction to the death of Iran's terror controller.

    The tories in 2001 when they put in IDS.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,768

    rcs1000 said:

    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.

    Re Bernie, his big, big problem is that he's no-one's second choice.

    If Sanders drops out, his support goes to Warren.
    If Buttigieg drops out, his support goes to Biden and Warren and Klobuchar.
    If Biden drops out, his support goes to whichever establishment Democrat remains.
    If Warren drops out, her vote splits equally between Sanders, Biden and Buttigieg.

    Given that, it's hard to see how he wins the nomination, because even if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, the establishment will end up coalescing on a single candidate, and that person (whoever it is) hammers Bernie.

    There also has to be a not-insignificant chance that he has another health issue in the next 12 months.
    I'd have thought that a lot of Warren's support will go to him. Do you hsave evidence to the contrary? I agree that the others much less so.

    But Biden's steady lead is impressive anyway. Sometimes favourites do just go on and win, despite all the media efforts to make it more exciting.
    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1213147672250478592
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    nunu2 said:

    Bernie is going to win Iowa.

    That will age well :smiley:
    Does nunu mean win as in Corbyn 2017 win? ;)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:

    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.

    Re Bernie, his big, big problem is that he's no-one's second choice.

    If Sanders drops out, his support goes to Warren.
    If Buttigieg drops out, his support goes to Biden and Warren and Klobuchar.
    If Biden drops out, his support goes to whichever establishment Democrat remains.
    If Warren drops out, her vote splits equally between Sanders, Biden and Buttigieg.

    Given that, it's hard to see how he wins the nomination, because even if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, the establishment will end up coalescing on a single candidate, and that person (whoever it is) hammers Bernie.

    There also has to be a not-insignificant chance that he has another health issue in the next 12 months.
    I'd have thought that a lot of Warren's support will go to him. Do you hsave evidence to the contrary? I agree that the others much less so.

    But Biden's steady lead is impressive anyway. Sometimes favourites do just go on and win, despite all the media efforts to make it more exciting.
    According to Morning Consult, 32% of Warren's support goes to him, which is good... but almost as much (22%) goes to Biden.

    Although my analysis above was a little misleading, because a fair number of Sanders supporters (29%) have Biden as a second choice.

    Again, this puts Biden in a very strong position.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836

    rcs1000 said:

    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.

    Re Bernie, his big, big problem is that he's no-one's second choice.

    If Sanders drops out, his support goes to Warren.
    If Buttigieg drops out, his support goes to Biden and Warren and Klobuchar.
    If Biden drops out, his support goes to whichever establishment Democrat remains.
    If Warren drops out, her vote splits equally between Sanders, Biden and Buttigieg.

    Given that, it's hard to see how he wins the nomination, because even if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, the establishment will end up coalescing on a single candidate, and that person (whoever it is) hammers Bernie.

    There also has to be a not-insignificant chance that he has another health issue in the next 12 months.
    I'd have thought that a lot of Warren's support will go to him. Do you hsave evidence to the contrary? I agree that the others much less so.

    But Biden's steady lead is impressive anyway. Sometimes favourites do just go on and win, despite all the media efforts to make it more exciting.
    Sanders base is the union working class, Warren's base is the highly educated.
  • Interesting to see the top LD seats as being much less safe than the top Con and top Lab seats.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484
    Banterman said:

    Has there ever been a general election loser who have doubled down on their 2 key points of failures, than Labour at the moment on Corbyn and Brexit. Its is beyond comprehension.

    And on top of that Corbyn pops up to remind everyone what a major security risk he is, with his reaction to the death of Iran's terror controller.

    I don't think 'terror controller' will stick. He was a general. And Iran isn't a big terror sponsor like Saudi Arabia. Raab's statement was exactly right, as is Boris's lack of statement.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836

    rcs1000 said:

    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.

    Re Bernie, his big, big problem is that he's no-one's second choice.

    If Sanders drops out, his support goes to Warren.
    If Buttigieg drops out, his support goes to Biden and Warren and Klobuchar.
    If Biden drops out, his support goes to whichever establishment Democrat remains.
    If Warren drops out, her vote splits equally between Sanders, Biden and Buttigieg.

    Given that, it's hard to see how he wins the nomination, because even if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, the establishment will end up coalescing on a single candidate, and that person (whoever it is) hammers Bernie.

    There also has to be a not-insignificant chance that he has another health issue in the next 12 months.
    I'd have thought that a lot of Warren's support will go to him. Do you hsave evidence to the contrary? I agree that the others much less so.

    But Biden's steady lead is impressive anyway. Sometimes favourites do just go on and win, despite all the media efforts to make it more exciting.
    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1213147672250478592
    It's amazing how much people forget the terrible ramifications of the same arguments. Saddam Hussein was a very bad man too, yet you could oppose him without supporting war in Iraq. The likes of Luntz at the time were using the same arguments about anti-war people being on Saddam's side.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    James Felton and Owen Jones were tweeting it, so it was likely to be based on hope and hate than fact

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1213512765945634819?s=21
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836

    Banterman said:

    Has there ever been a general election loser who have doubled down on their 2 key points of failures, than Labour at the moment on Corbyn and Brexit. Its is beyond comprehension.

    And on top of that Corbyn pops up to remind everyone what a major security risk he is, with his reaction to the death of Iran's terror controller.

    I don't think 'terror controller' will stick. He was a general. And Iran isn't a big terror sponsor like Saudi Arabia. Raab's statement was exactly right, as is Boris's lack of statement.
    I think Saudi Arabia is a worst government than Iran's but Iran is definitely more of a terrorism sponsor.
  • nunu2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.

    And not one person of colour. Really embarrassing for the DNC.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffreyvs/status/1213319500822646785
    Buttigieg would be the first openly gay president, Klobuchar or Warren the first woman president, Biden or Sanders the oldest president (I think), so hardly terrible for diversity. Nothing to be embarrassed about.
  • Gabs3 said:

    Banterman said:

    Has there ever been a general election loser who have doubled down on their 2 key points of failures, than Labour at the moment on Corbyn and Brexit. Its is beyond comprehension.

    And on top of that Corbyn pops up to remind everyone what a major security risk he is, with his reaction to the death of Iran's terror controller.

    I don't think 'terror controller' will stick. He was a general. And Iran isn't a big terror sponsor like Saudi Arabia. Raab's statement was exactly right, as is Boris's lack of statement.
    I think Saudi Arabia is a worst government than Iran's but Iran is definitely more of a terrorism sponsor.
    Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    nunu2 said:

    Bernie is going to win Iowa.

    He may well do.

    But his big problem is that while Buttigieg has 27 offices and over 100 paid staffers, he has only 9 offices, and they're concentrated in Iowa's major urban areas.

    Sanders also has fewer staffers and offices than Biden, Warren and Klobuchar.

    That puts him at a disadvantage in cold and dusty church halls in rural parts of Iowa. And Iowa has a lot of rural parts. I can see Sanders sweeping all before him around the University of Iowa and similar places. But out in the boondocks, where the voters are older and less left wing, he's likely to struggle hard.

    And if you drop below 15% in a precinct, you get null delegates.

    My rough guessimate would be that Biden is probably favourite for Iowa right now, given his "No Malarky" tour in the state, and an impressive build up of presence there. I'd give him a 35% chance.

    Buttigieg is probably a 30% chance, given his organisation in the state, and that he pretty much looks like a perfect candidate for Iowa. (Being white and Christian and centrist).

    Sanders is probably a 25% chance, because he's got a tonne of committed supporters and he's been rising in the polls. I also suspect the ratcheting up on tensions in the Middle East favours him.

    (As an aside, I suspect Buttigieg will come out at the debate broadly in favour of Trump's killing of that Iranian dude. Which is probably smart politics.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    Interesting to see the top LD seats as being much less safe than the top Con and top Lab seats.

    That's because the LDs only got 11.8% in the election.
  • Banterman said:

    Banterman said:

    Has there ever been a general election loser who have doubled down on their 2 key points of failures, than Labour at the moment on Corbyn and Brexit. Its is beyond comprehension.

    And on top of that Corbyn pops up to remind everyone what a major security risk he is, with his reaction to the death of Iran's terror controller.

    Re: the second statement from the second paragraph. Welcome to PB Mr Pompeo.
    That was what he was. Its similar to taking out someone like Himmler in WW2.
    Not really. First, because everyone is everyone's enemy in that part of the world, Soleimani was sometimes on the same side as the West, for instance when defeating ISIS. Secondly, unlike in the Second World War, there is no actual war. Whether we should have "taken out" Himmler in 1937 is left as an exercise for the reader.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    nunu2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.

    And not one person of colour. Really embarrassing for the DNC.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffreyvs/status/1213319500822646785
    Not really. There were several ethnic minorities in the race and they just didn't perform. Even among black and brown voters. I think it is a good thing that Democrats vote for the person not the race.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    rcs1000 said:



    I've been buying Biden pretty consistently since the last Democratic debate, and he's now my second biggest winner (after Buttigieg). I think this analysis is spot on: Biden has been working Iowa pretty hard, and 538 reckons he's now in the lead there. If he were to win it, then it's pretty much all over.

    Even if he doesn't win it, so long as he polls well, then he's in a great position given he should clean up in SC.

    The only really plausible way for Biden to lose is if another moderate (probably Buttigieg, maybe Klobuchar) wins Iowa, and then picks up New Hampshire. In that case, I think a lot of "establishment" Democrats would start to swing behind the the winner of the first two primaries, and Biden's lead would evaporate.

    But right now, that's a relatively low probability event (say 15-20%). Biden's price is far too low, buy him. (And keep selling Clinton and Bloomberg.)

    (My Democratic nomination book looks pretty good, all things considered. I got on Pete very early, and then sold Clinton in ridiculous size in the low teens. I'm Green on basically everyone except Williamson, Clinton and Bloomberg.)

    I think there's also a risk for Biden that the more liberal vote consolidates. At the moment he benefits quite a lot from Warren and Sanders splitting that vote fairly evenly. Having said which I agree that Biden is a worthy frontrunner, and I think that he is about right at 2/1.

    I took a new approach to this year, and basically laid no-hopers the market liked and did little else. This started with Yang, and then I rolled over the amount against Clinton, Obama, Gabbard, Bloomberg, and even Winfrey.

    I did place a few, smaller, back bets. Mostly on Biden, I also backed Warren at 25/1 and cashed out at 6/1. Overall I've now got a bet at 2/9 that none of the longshot above win, with a bonus if Biden does.

    Bloomberg wasn't meant to run in my plan, and he is polling a bit higher than I'd like, but I'm probably all right. His decision to skip the early states is nuts.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Gabs3 said:

    nunu2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.

    And not one person of colour. Really embarrassing for the DNC.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffreyvs/status/1213319500822646785
    Not really. There were several ethnic minorities in the race and they just didn't perform. Even among black and brown voters. I think it is a good thing that Democrats vote for the person not the race.
    Yes, there were two high profile black candidates, and one high profile Asian one. (As well as Tulsi Gabbard.)

    They just didn't perform as well as the establishment candidates.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Gabs3 said:

    nunu2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.

    And not one person of colour. Really embarrassing for the DNC.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffreyvs/status/1213319500822646785
    Not really. There were several ethnic minorities in the race and they just didn't perform. Even among black and brown voters. I think it is a good thing that Democrats vote for the person not the race.
    I'm not sure what the DNC could have done better. The slowly rising poll threshold is a reasonable way to winnow the field, and one which can't reasonably be accused of being rigged by them (since they don't influence the polls). It's surprising that there's been a sudden poll drought, and while they might want to extend the window if they can this time I don't see the problem otherwise.
  • nunu2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.

    And not one person of colour. Really embarrassing for the DNC.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffreyvs/status/1213319500822646785
    Whoa there! What about old Pocahontas? She's on the stage.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm only mildly Green on him, and that's only because I'm out a five figure sum if Clinton wins.

    For the record, I'm not losing any sleep over my Clinton position. Given she's not on the ballot in any of the states. And there is next to no chance that the DNC would hand the nomination to someone who got null delegates.

    If they do, it's going to be Michelle Obama....
    She'd be a more likely nominee than Ms Clinton. (Checks book... and I am actually green on her...)

    But my M Obama position is simply a consequence of selling Clinton and Bloomberg and various others who were ridiculously overpriced at one point or another. (Mr Yang...)
    Polls which included Michelle Obama were really impressive for her I thought. Granted, she's never have held on to that support once she took positions and opposed politicians that Dem voters liked, and etc. But she polled a lot better than Clinton at any point.

    She's a good speaker as well, imho in the same league as Barack. I think that she had a big window to become an Illinois senator in 2016, when Barack was leaving office and there was an open seat coming up. The fact she didn't go for it and hasn't teased an entry into politics since made me very confident she was never going to run for office.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Chances of Esmail Ghaani getting any new life insurance policies now?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esmail_Ghaani
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    isam said:

    James Felton and Owen Jones were tweeting it, so it was likely to be based on hope and hate than fact

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1213512765945634819?s=21

    It's amazing how many people let their own biases blind them to fake news from their own side.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Quincel said:

    I took a new approach to this year, and basically laid no-hopers the market liked and did little else. This started with Yang, and then I rolled over the amount against Clinton, Obama, Gabbard, Bloomberg, and even Winfrey.

    That's essentially been my strategy too. The price on Clinton was ridiculous. I kept offering 15-1 on Betfair, and people kept buying, even as it became clear she'd missed the filing deadlines for a bunch of states.

    Pretty much the only "positive" bets I've made have been on Buttigieg (at 40-1 and more), Klobuchar (at even higher odds) and Biden (around the current level).

    2-1 is a 33% chance. That seems too low. It seems to me that the probabilities look something like this:

    Biden 50%
    Warren 15%
    Sanders 15%
    Buttigieg 12.5%

    The field 7.5%.

    Buttigieg has to win Iowa and New Hampshire, and then grab the establishment mantle.

    Warren has to beat Sanders in Iowa and New Hampshire and grab the liberal mantle. It's possible, but not easy.

    Sanders has to beat Warren in the first two states, and then hope to pick up more than a third of Warren's votes.

    Biden just has to avoid getting hammered in the early states, because South Carolina should be great for him.
  • isam said:

    James Felton and Owen Jones were tweeting it, so it was likely to be based on hope and hate than fact

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1213512765945634819?s=21

    They may well have been. The underlying story there was posted here last year.

    But of equal interest is something in Dominic Cummings' "weirdos and misfits" recruitment post, where he goes on to say about social media:
    I noticed in the recent campaign that the world of digital advertising has changed very fast since I was last involved in 2016. This is partly why so many journalists wrongly looked at things like Corbyn’s Facebook stats and thought Labour was doing better than us — the ecosystem evolves rapidly while political journalists are still behind the 2016 tech, hence why so many fell for Carole’s conspiracy theories. The digital people involved in the last campaign really knew what they are doing, which is incredibly rare in this world of charlatans and clients who don’t know what they should be buying.

    The full story of what went on in the election's social media campaigns has yet to be written.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    nunu2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.

    And not one person of colour. Really embarrassing for the DNC.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffreyvs/status/1213319500822646785
    Whoa there! What about old Pocahontas? She's on the stage.
    Also, Bernie gets a bit red when he's angry.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453

    nunu2 said:

    Bernie is going to win Iowa.

    That will age well :smiley:
    Yes, it will.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    James Felton and Owen Jones were tweeting it, so it was likely to be based on hope and hate than fact

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1213512765945634819?s=21

    It's amazing how many people let their own biases blind them to fake news from their own side.
    That's true, but wasn't that stat from a study of Facebook ads from a reasonably independent source? Or is there something I don't know about First Draft News? I won't pretend I have heard of them before.

    https://firstdraftnews.org/latest/thousands-of-misleading-conservative-ads-side-step-scrutiny-thanks-to-facebook-policy/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    edited January 2020
    @rcs1000

    And Biden beats Trump, doesn't he? - doesn’t he?

    🙏
  • Gabs3 said:

    nunu2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Democratic Primaries, worth noting that there will be only five candidates on stage in January: Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren. That's a serious narrowing of the field.

    And not one person of colour. Really embarrassing for the DNC.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffreyvs/status/1213319500822646785
    Not really. There were several ethnic minorities in the race and they just didn't perform. Even among black and brown voters. I think it is a good thing that Democrats vote for the person not the race.
    Not "were"... there still are a couple of ethnic minority candidates in the race - Booker and Yang.

    The latter of those can't be accused of not having performed either. Yang isn't going to be preparing to move into the White House this time next year, but that probably hasn't been the aim and his stock has risen with a spirited performance, and he's probably advanced his agenda.

    I've been a little surprised Booker hasn't had a "moment". He's pulled in good fundraising, and reliably performs quite well. It's probably (although not definitely) too late for him, and he may well be running for VP at this point.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,210
    There was a definite lack of enthusiasm for Labour round here (Top of east mids/bottom of S Yorkshire)
  • nunu2 said:

    nunu2 said:

    Bernie is going to win Iowa.

    That will age well :smiley:
    Yes, it will.
    Well, Sanders is indeed betting favourite albeit above evens.

    I'd still tend towards Buttigieg for that one despite evidence that his latest surge is over. He seems very well organised in Iowa and I think the format favours him... it's horribly stereotypical, but I suspect a lot of Pete's activists are terribly well turned-out, charming young men and that the caucus set-up is ideal on that basis.
  • Quincel said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    James Felton and Owen Jones were tweeting it, so it was likely to be based on hope and hate than fact

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1213512765945634819?s=21

    It's amazing how many people let their own biases blind them to fake news from their own side.
    That's true, but wasn't that stat from a study of Facebook ads from a reasonably independent source? Or is there something I don't know about First Draft News? I won't pretend I have heard of them before.

    https://firstdraftnews.org/latest/thousands-of-misleading-conservative-ads-side-step-scrutiny-thanks-to-facebook-policy/
    Yes but the 0% misleading Labour adverts claim was itself misleading because it really meant not many had been checked.
    See https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2020/01/were-88-of-tory-facebook-adverts-lies.html

    What seems to be happening now is whataboutery rather than exonerating Conservative adverts.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Quincel said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    James Felton and Owen Jones were tweeting it, so it was likely to be based on hope and hate than fact

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1213512765945634819?s=21

    It's amazing how many people let their own biases blind them to fake news from their own side.
    That's true, but wasn't that stat from a study of Facebook ads from a reasonably independent source? Or is there something I don't know about First Draft News? I won't pretend I have heard of them before.

    https://firstdraftnews.org/latest/thousands-of-misleading-conservative-ads-side-step-scrutiny-thanks-to-facebook-policy/
    It's a leftist front made to look neutral.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    isam said:

    James Felton and Owen Jones were tweeting it, so it was likely to be based on hope and hate than fact

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1213512765945634819?s=21

    They may well have been. The underlying story there was posted here last year.

    But of equal interest is something in Dominic Cummings' "weirdos and misfits" recruitment post, where he goes on to say about social media:
    I noticed in the recent campaign that the world of digital advertising has changed very fast since I was last involved in 2016. This is partly why so many journalists wrongly looked at things like Corbyn’s Facebook stats and thought Labour was doing better than us — the ecosystem evolves rapidly while political journalists are still behind the 2016 tech, hence why so many fell for Carole’s conspiracy theories. The digital people involved in the last campaign really knew what they are doing, which is incredibly rare in this world of charlatans and clients who don’t know what they should be buying.

    The full story of what went on in the election's social media campaigns has yet to be written.
    Memes shared via platforms like Whatsapp are an invisible vector and nearly impossible to quantify. But I'd hazard a guess they were huge this time.

    Everybody is in at least one group chat and there's always that one person sharing memes non stop. It's also much easier to share content like that in a closed group with people you already trust (post anything Tory on facebook and you will be sworn at or called a bigot).

    The Conservatives will have employed some very clever, very young people to make and distribute them, silently, away from the big social media platforms.

    There's huge power there and I'd hazard a guess that's what Cummings means when he says Labour's facebook stats don't matter.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Pulpstar said:

    There was a definite lack of enthusiasm for Labour round here (Top of east mids/bottom of S Yorkshire)

    Some of the falls were extraordinary.

    Exactly the type of area you'd expect to be anti Corbyn but still, you would expect those types of changes to be happening over long term not in one election!
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    James Felton and Owen Jones were tweeting it, so it was likely to be based on hope and hate than fact

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1213512765945634819?s=21

    It's amazing how many people let their own biases blind them to fake news from their own side.
    Bu far the biggest lie was told by Labour!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,768
    Go Leeds Uni (my alma mater).

    Both Kier and Jess did degrees there.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,768

    nunu2 said:

    nunu2 said:

    Bernie is going to win Iowa.

    That will age well :smiley:
    Yes, it will.
    Well, Sanders is indeed betting favourite albeit above evens.

    I'd still tend towards Buttigieg for that one despite evidence that his latest surge is over. He seems very well organised in Iowa and I think the format favours him... it's horribly stereotypical, but I suspect a lot of Pete's activists are terribly well turned-out, charming young men and that the caucus set-up is ideal on that basis.
    :+1:
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    edited January 2020

    nunu2 said:

    nunu2 said:

    Bernie is going to win Iowa.

    That will age well :smiley:
    Yes, it will.
    Well, Sanders is indeed betting favourite albeit above evens.

    I'd still tend towards Buttigieg for that one despite evidence that his latest surge is over. He seems very well organised in Iowa and I think the format favours him... it's horribly stereotypical, but I suspect a lot of Pete's activists are terribly well turned-out, charming young men and that the caucus set-up is ideal on that basis.
    :+1:
    Pete is also a former management consultant at an elite firm so I suspect he is pretty effective at project management, and knows a lot of people who are too.
  • Go Leeds Uni (my alma mater).

    Both Kier and Jess did degrees there.

    Keir even!
  • Lavery's price has just come in from around 55 to 26 on Betfair in the last half hour - have I missed the Amalgamated Union of Embezzlers, Socialist Hooligans and Halfwits come out and said they'd back him or something?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    nunu2 said:

    felix said:

    Monica Lennon says Scottish Labour must split from UK party

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50982723

    They should merge with the Conservatives :wink:
    I guess then they might be able to scrape up a not-entirely-crap leader between them.

    Actually, scrub that.

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/1213375414544084992?s=20
    Bring back Ruth!
    Funnily enough, Ruth is still the 2nd shortest Unionist on the next FM market, at 20/1. Richard Leonard is the Unionist front-runner, at 12/1.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    Gabs3 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.

    Re Bernie, his big, big problem is that he's no-one's second choice.

    If Sanders drops out, his support goes to Warren.
    If Buttigieg drops out, his support goes to Biden and Warren and Klobuchar.
    If Biden drops out, his support goes to whichever establishment Democrat remains.
    If Warren drops out, her vote splits equally between Sanders, Biden and Buttigieg.

    Given that, it's hard to see how he wins the nomination, because even if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, the establishment will end up coalescing on a single candidate, and that person (whoever it is) hammers Bernie.

    There also has to be a not-insignificant chance that he has another health issue in the next 12 months.
    I'd have thought that a lot of Warren's support will go to him. Do you hsave evidence to the contrary? I agree that the others much less so.

    But Biden's steady lead is impressive anyway. Sometimes favourites do just go on and win, despite all the media efforts to make it more exciting.
    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1213147672250478592
    It's amazing how much people forget the terrible ramifications of the same arguments. Saddam Hussein was a very bad man too, yet you could oppose him without supporting war in Iraq. The likes of Luntz at the time were using the same arguments about anti-war people being on Saddam's side.
    As is Vladimir Putin (and likely responsible for more deaths). Would taking him out be a good idea ?
    There is a case to be made for this strike, but Luntz is not making it. Though his blether is of the kind to impress Trump, which is also in its own way concerning, what with an election coming up....
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited January 2020
    Just as I expected a couple of days ago, the Trump administration is expecting a much greater level of subordination if Britain isn't to be included in the ranks of the "Europeans".

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/04/mike-pompeo-european-response-to-suleimani-killing

    "Pompeo: European response to Suleimani killing 'not helpful enough'"

    US secretary of state unfavourably compares European reaction with ‘partners in the region’
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    nunu2 said:

    nunu2 said:

    Bernie is going to win Iowa.

    That will age well :smiley:
    Yes, it will.
    Well, Sanders is indeed betting favourite albeit above evens.

    I'd still tend towards Buttigieg for that one despite evidence that his latest surge is over. He seems very well organised in Iowa and I think the format favours him... it's horribly stereotypical, but I suspect a lot of Pete's activists are terribly well turned-out, charming young men and that the caucus set-up is ideal on that basis.
    The other thing is... we're still a month from the Primary, and there are a lot of moving parts.

    At this time in 2004, the two candidates ahead in the polls in Iowa were Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt.

    John Kerry, in the last poll in December, was on 9%, and John Edwards was on 5%. Between them, just eight weeks later, they got 70% of the delegates from Iowa.

    My simple tactic here is to sell people when they become "too favourite". Sanders, at an implied probability of about 41% is too much of a favourite. Biden, at an implied probability of 25% is too cheap.

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    MaxPB said:

    Quincel said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    James Felton and Owen Jones were tweeting it, so it was likely to be based on hope and hate than fact

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1213512765945634819?s=21

    It's amazing how many people let their own biases blind them to fake news from their own side.
    That's true, but wasn't that stat from a study of Facebook ads from a reasonably independent source? Or is there something I don't know about First Draft News? I won't pretend I have heard of them before.

    https://firstdraftnews.org/latest/thousands-of-misleading-conservative-ads-side-step-scrutiny-thanks-to-facebook-policy/
    It's a leftist front made to look neutral.
    Maybe, but I just Googled it and its background isn't leftist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Draft_News
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Gabs3 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.

    Re Bernie, his big, big problem is that he's no-one's second choice.

    If Sanders drops out, his support goes to Warren.
    If Buttigieg drops out, his support goes to Biden and Warren and Klobuchar.
    If Biden drops out, his support goes to whichever establishment Democrat remains.
    If Warren drops out, her vote splits equally between Sanders, Biden and Buttigieg.

    Given that, it's hard to see how he wins the nomination, because even if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, the establishment will end up coalescing on a single candidate, and that person (whoever it is) hammers Bernie.

    There also has to be a not-insignificant chance that he has another health issue in the next 12 months.
    I'd have thought that a lot of Warren's support will go to him. Do you hsave evidence to the contrary? I agree that the others much less so.

    But Biden's steady lead is impressive anyway. Sometimes favourites do just go on and win, despite all the media efforts to make it more exciting.
    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1213147672250478592
    It's amazing how much people forget the terrible ramifications of the same arguments. Saddam Hussein was a very bad man too, yet you could oppose him without supporting war in Iraq. The likes of Luntz at the time were using the same arguments about anti-war people being on Saddam's side.
    Indeed - and many see Trump as an equally 'bad guy'. By his action Trump has certainly become a legitimate assassination target - and were it to happen many in the West would celebrate.
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    Sir_Geoff said:

    Lavery's price has just come in from around 55 to 26 on Betfair in the last half hour - have I missed the Amalgamated Union of Embezzlers, Socialist Hooligans and Halfwits come out and said they'd back him or something?

    Not seen anythinglike that. Posted first thing this morning saying I had completed a yougov poll for members and Lavery was included for the first time. I would expect he will be polling close to RBL, as there is probably as much support for Lavery on social media, as there is for RBL
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    justin124 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am so red on Bernie that it hurts me to look at the numbers. Otherwise looking good.

    Re Bernie, his big, big problem is that he's no-one's second choice.

    If Sanders drops out, his support goes to Warren.
    If Buttigieg drops out, his support goes to Biden and Warren and Klobuchar.
    If Biden drops out, his support goes to whichever establishment Democrat remains.
    If Warren drops out, her vote splits equally between Sanders, Biden and Buttigieg.

    Given that, it's hard to see how he wins the nomination, because even if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, the establishment will end up coalescing on a single candidate, and that person (whoever it is) hammers Bernie.

    There also has to be a not-insignificant chance that he has another health issue in the next 12 months.
    I'd have thought that a lot of Warren's support will go to him. Do you hsave evidence to the contrary? I agree that the others much less so.

    But Biden's steady lead is impressive anyway. Sometimes favourites do just go on and win, despite all the media efforts to make it more exciting.
    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1213147672250478592
    It's amazing how much people forget the terrible ramifications of the same arguments. Saddam Hussein was a very bad man too, yet you could oppose him without supporting war in Iraq. The likes of Luntz at the time were using the same arguments about anti-war people being on Saddam's side.
    Indeed - and many see Trump as an equally 'bad guy'. By his action Trump has certainly become a legitimate assassination target - and were it to happen many in the West would celebrate.
    I'd be very careful about what you wish for. The attempted assassination of George Wallace or the actual assassination of Pim Fortuyn led to a surge in popularity.

    In fact, I'd go so far as to say an attempted assassination (which he survived with minor injury) would be truly excellent news for Trump's re-election chances.

    It simultaneously would make him less of a monster and more of a superman.
  • This Suleimani assassination business (or "taking out" as we must now learn to call it). Is there something else going on? Specifically is President Trump losing his grip on power?

    It seems that all the old Bush-era neocons are all over the news. Are Jared Kushner and Ivanka now sidelined? Are the hawks taking back control of foreign policy after the dismissal of John Bolton?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    All I get from this is that she wants free graphic design work.
  • Sir Keir confirms he is standing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,210

    Sir Keir confirms he is standing.

    Good. That should make the betting nice and simple then
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,152
    edited January 2020



    I'd be very careful about what you wish for. The attempted assassination of George Wallace or the actual assassination of Pim Fortuyn led to a surge in popularity.

    In fact, I'd go so far as to say an attempted assassination (which he survived with minor injury) would be truly excellent news for Trump's re-election chances.

    It simultaneously would make him less of a monster and more of a superman.

    To borrow from the Usual Suspects, how do you shoot the Devil in the back? I mean, what if you miss?

    The idea of an attack on Trump personally isn't realistic, in my view. It would be a massive escalation, guaranteeing war. It isn't feasible - security around the President is far tighter than around an Iranian general. And, as you suggest, what if you miss (which is pretty likely)?

    We're looking at different steps here from Iran - proxy attacks on outposts, kidnapping of US nationals and allies, making special forces operations in Syria nigh on impossible and so on. And I'm afraid security will need tightening around more junior administration members and around public events involving US citizens around the world.

    It's terrible to have to say these things, and I fervently hope none of them come to pass. But that's the sort of escalation Iran will be discussing internally.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Love the bit where he stood with the guild of chandlers to oppose the light bulb factory being built.

    What a pile of crud.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Quincel said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    James Felton and Owen Jones were tweeting it, so it was likely to be based on hope and hate than fact

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1213512765945634819?s=21

    It's amazing how many people let their own biases blind them to fake news from their own side.
    That's true, but wasn't that stat from a study of Facebook ads from a reasonably independent source? Or is there something I don't know about First Draft News? I won't pretend I have heard of them before.

    https://firstdraftnews.org/latest/thousands-of-misleading-conservative-ads-side-step-scrutiny-thanks-to-facebook-policy/
    Yes but the 0% misleading Labour adverts claim was itself misleading because it really meant not many had been checked.
    See https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2020/01/were-88-of-tory-facebook-adverts-lies.html

    What seems to be happening now is whataboutery rather than exonerating Conservative adverts.
    Interesting and detailed takedown, thanks.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    The print workers??? Possibly the least deserving of all the unions in the whole of the UK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    The safest Tory seats all rural, the most marginal urban or suburban, the biggest swing to the Tories in Leave seats, the biggest swing against in Remain seats.

    The safest Labour seats in urban areas, the biggest swing to the LDs and Labour in Remain areas, the biggest swing against them in Leave areas. A clear pattern there
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,210
    Looks good enough to me. I think he's going to win
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited January 2020
    TGOHF666 said:

    Love the bit where he stood with the guild of chandlers to oppose the light bulb factory being built.

    What a pile of crud.
    Leftwing mood music and tone, and Miliband-like poliicies that pragmatize and moderate the Corbyn-era ones. That's the plan, and not popular for the tory core, but it may go down well with a lot of members and some lab/tory switchers, particularly if Brexit proves to be a total balls-up.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    rcs1000 said:



    Biden just has to avoid getting hammered in the early states, because South Carolina should be great for him.

    As far as this slender polling evidence goes, Biden seems to be losing ground rapidly in SC (especially if the Sanders-Warren duel gets resolved in favour of one or the other).

    Worth noting that Bloomberg has done well in the last two polls, with 11% and 7%. He appears not to be trying to get any delegates, though. What's his plan? - a third party candidacy?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Looks good enough to me. I think he's going to win
    So do I, with Labour using the fantastic alternative vote system to elect their leader, I think he'll be the most transfer friendly candidate, certainly more so than Jess Phillips and Ian Lavery.
  • Sir Keir confirms he is standing.

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    The Tories also got a higher vote in the Eastern region, 57.2% and the East Midlands, 54,8% than they did in the South East where they got 54%. The lowest voteshare for the Tories in England and Wales came in London, where they got just 32%, even lower than the 38.3% they got in the North East and the 36.1% they got in Wales.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8749/CBP-8749.pdf
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:



    Biden just has to avoid getting hammered in the early states, because South Carolina should be great for him.

    As far as this slender polling evidence goes, Biden seems to be losing ground rapidly in SC (especially if the Sanders-Warren duel gets resolved in favour of one or the other).

    Worth noting that Bloomberg has done well in the last two polls, with 11% and 7%. He appears not to be trying to get any delegates, though. What's his plan? - a third party candidacy?
    No, his plan is to stand on Super Tuesday.

    He's been an enormous boon for Sanders (and to a lesser extent Warren). He splits the moderate/centrist vote and makes it more likely centrist candidates fail to make the 15% cut-off.

    The question is whether he's able to maintain his position given he's going to get null delegates in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina.

    My guess is no. But he's Sanders best hope of the nomination.
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