I've never been to the Far East. Maybe one day. At this time of year with the cold weather, Bangkok seems a better bet than the Kings Cross Travelodge.
Talking of Bangkok, I've just discovered that you can spend a week there in a luxury hotel including return flight for the same price as a couple of nights in the Kings Cross Travelodge. That's a slight exaggeration, but not much.
There is no better place in the world to be a rich middle aged white man, than Bangkok. As jack Dromey and the reverend Flowers might attest.
It is particularly delicious from November to February. Not too hot, soft sweet evenings, just serene.
However I doubt you can get a flight here and a luxe hotel for a week, for the price of a weekend in the St Pancras premier inn. Central Bangkok prices are not far off London prices.
I've never been to the Far East. Maybe one day. At this time of year with the cold weather, Bangkok seems a better bet than the Kings Cross Travelodge.
Talking of Bangkok, I've just discovered that you can spend a week there in a luxury hotel including return flight for the same price as a couple of nights in the Kings Cross Travelodge. That's a slight exaggeration, but not much.
There is no better place in the world to be a rich middle aged white man, than Bangkok. As jack Dromey and the reverend Flowers might attest.
It is particularly delicious from November to February. Not too hot, soft sweet evenings, just serene.
However I doubt you can get a flight here and a luxe hotel for a week, for the price of a weekend in the St Pancras premier inn. Central Bangkok prices are not far off London prices.
Shocking! Ed Balls pulls a 'PB Tory' and alludes to Flowers' sexuality:
Challenged about Mr Flowers’ evidence to MPs, Mr Balls cast doubt on his honesty: “He was someone who was buying drugs and engaged with rent boys. He has made a lot of allegations. There is no truth in that at all.”
@evansma: Police reveal the three women rescued from 30-years in domestic servitude were held in a house in Lambeth. #slavery
Obviously the PB Tories will be furious with the immigration policies at the time, or something
Depends if those poor unfortunates were in this country all that time doesn't it... Might want to know the circumstances until political points smearing..
@evansma: Police reveal the three women rescued from 30-years in domestic servitude were held in a house in Lambeth. #slavery
Obviously the PB Tories will be furious with the immigration policies at the time, or something
You really are a sick individual. We have no idea what the story is, yet you try to score political points with it.
I hope the women get the help they need.
God you're pompous
Is that the best you can do? Of all the insults you can throw at me, you choose 'pompous'?
You're really off-form. Take some lessons from SeanT; he's much better at insulting people.
Pompous and tedious are the only two words that spring to mind. I guess while TGOHF drools over the perpetrators being either Catholic or Muslim you can contribute to the discussion on inprisonment by explaining how a Chubb lock works.
tim - imagine they are ....... TOFFS ! BURN THEM ALIVE. !!
@evansma: Police reveal the three women rescued from 30-years in domestic servitude were held in a house in Lambeth. #slavery
Obviously the PB Tories will be furious with the immigration policies at the time, or something
You really are a sick individual. We have no idea what the story is, yet you try to score political points with it.
I hope the women get the help they need.
God you're pompous
Is that the best you can do? Of all the insults you can throw at me, you choose 'pompous'?
You're really off-form. Take some lessons from SeanT; he's much better at insulting people.
Pompous and tedious are the only two words that spring to mind. I guess while TGOHF drools over the perpetrators being either Catholic or Muslim you can contribute to the discussion on inprisonment by explaining how a Chubb lock works.
13,607 posts under your belt, and you accuse someone else of being tedious!
BTW, I've got no idea how a Chubb lock works. That's too much like mechanical engineering for my liking. :-)
o/t - I see Paddy Power has withdrawn the "will Berlusconi stand as a PDL candidate" market. SOmeone must have told them about the PDL having been dissolved.
@evansma: Police reveal the three women rescued from 30-years in domestic servitude were held in a house in Lambeth. #slavery
Obviously the PB Tories will be furious with the immigration policies at the time, or something
You really are a sick individual. We have no idea what the story is, yet you try to score political points with it.
I hope the women get the help they need.
God you're pompous
Is that the best you can do? Of all the insults you can throw at me, you choose 'pompous'?
You're really off-form. Take some lessons from SeanT; he's much better at insulting people.
Pompous and tedious are the only two words that spring to mind. I guess while TGOHF drools over the perpetrators being either Catholic or Muslim you can contribute to the discussion on inprisonment by explaining how a Chubb lock works.
Err, you're the one normally bashing the archbishop when it comes to the subject of Catholicism.
''We should be much more aggressive in Europe. Proactive. Punchy. Since Thatcher every UK PM has been a total Reverend Flowers when it comes to Brussels.''
Particularly as we are the second biggest net contributor!!
It's like going to a restaurant and being told what to eat by a terse, rude waiter.
o/t - I see Paddy Power has withdrawn the "will Berlusconi stand as a PDL candidate" market. SOmeone must have told them about the PDL having been dissolved.
My bet probably prompted them to check wikipedia. (Not kidding on that one either)
@evansma: Police reveal the three women rescued from 30-years in domestic servitude were held in a house in Lambeth. #slavery
Obviously the PB Tories will be furious with the immigration policies at the time, or something
You really are a sick individual. We have no idea what the story is, yet you try to score political points with it.
I hope the women get the help they need.
God you're pompous
Is that the best you can do? Of all the insults you can throw at me, you choose 'pompous'?
You're really off-form. Take some lessons from SeanT; he's much better at insulting people.
Pompous and tedious are the only two words that spring to mind. I guess while TGOHF drools over the perpetrators being either Catholic or Muslim you can contribute to the discussion on inprisonment by explaining how a Chubb lock works.
13,607 posts under your belt, and you accuse someone else of being tedious!
BTW, I've got no idea how a Chubb lock works. That's too much like mechanical engineering for my liking. :-)
o/t - I see Paddy Power has withdrawn the "will Berlusconi stand as a PDL candidate" market. SOmeone must have told them about the PDL having been dissolved.
My bet probably prompted them to check wikipedia. (Not kidding on that one either)
It sounds like you got a little bit more on than I managed.
''We should be much more aggressive in Europe. Proactive. Punchy. Since Thatcher every UK PM has been a total Reverend Flowers when it comes to Brussels.''
Particularly as we are the second biggest net contributor!!
It's like going to a restaurant and being told what to eat by a terse, rude waiter.
@evansma: Police reveal the three women rescued from 30-years in domestic servitude were held in a house in Lambeth. #slavery
Obviously the PB Tories will be furious with the immigration policies at the time, or something
You really are a sick individual. We have no idea what the story is, yet you try to score political points with it.
I hope the women get the help they need.
God you're pompous
Is that the best you can do? Of all the insults you can throw at me, you choose 'pompous'?
You're really off-form. Take some lessons from SeanT; he's much better at insulting people.
Pompous and tedious are the only two words that spring to mind. I guess while TGOHF drools over the perpetrators being either Catholic or Muslim you can contribute to the discussion on inprisonment by explaining how a Chubb lock works.
13,607 posts under your belt, and you accuse someone else of being tedious!
BTW, I've got no idea how a Chubb lock works. That's too much like mechanical engineering for my liking. :-)
@jilltreanor: Co-op has written to ex bank chairman Paul Flowers to ask him to hand back £31,000 he received when he left in June
Will they ask for the £50k back from Balls?
@ToryTreasury: Bad news for Balls: p.51 of Co-op Group's 2012 Annual Report says the Group Board, of which Flowers was a member, approved the £50k donation
@ToryTreasury: Bad news for Balls: p.51 of Co-op Group's 2012 Annual Report says the Group Board, of which Flowers was a member, approved the £50k donation
In what world does that qualify as "news" to anyone? It would be rather shocking (and there would be a case for repayment) if the donation had not been approved by the Board.
@ToryTreasury: Bad news for Balls: p.51 of Co-op Group's 2012 Annual Report says the Group Board, of which Flowers was a member, approved the £50k donation
In what world does that qualify as "news" to anyone? It would be rather shocking (and there would be a case for repayment) if the donation had not been approved by the Board.
To you, for one - you accused me of 'making it up'!
@jilltreanor: Co-op has written to ex bank chairman Paul Flowers to ask him to hand back £31,000 he received when he left in June
Will they ask for the £50k back from Balls?
@ToryTreasury: Bad news for Balls: p.51 of Co-op Group's 2012 Annual Report says the Group Board, of which Flowers was a member, approved the £50k donation
This is the danger that some of the Labour supporters on here don't seem to recognise: the relationships between Labour, the Cooperative Party, the Cooperative Group, and the Cooperative Bank, seem rather incestuous. This means that who made what decisions may become rather muddied.
Worse, they may become confused in the public's eyes.
In what world does that qualify as "news" to anyone? It would be rather shocking (and there would be a case for repayment) if the donation had not been approved by the Board.
In the World where Ed Balls repeated several times that Rev. Flowers was not involved, despite being a member of the board
To you, for one - you accused me of 'making it up'!
I had read the annual report, Carlotta. I knew it was a Board decision rather than something that had been personally arranged by Flowers. That was the claim that was "made up" and Balls has gone out on a limb to reiterate that today.
Ed Conway @EdConwaySky Remember those coalition commitments to keep health spending rising in real terms? They haven't been met, says OECD http://bit.ly/17sI2L8
You can sum up David Camerons oh so personal commitment to the NHS in three letters, LIE
tim you should really read stuff Ed "tickets please" Conway posts before getting excited.
it's health spending per capita - do you really think an examination of the Labour years will prove fruitful ?
And as the OECD mentions..
"A public sector pay freeze in the UK has been a major factor "
@jilltreanor: Co-op has written to ex bank chairman Paul Flowers to ask him to hand back £31,000 he received when he left in June
Will they ask for the £50k back from Balls?
@ToryTreasury: Bad news for Balls: p.51 of Co-op Group's 2012 Annual Report says the Group Board, of which Flowers was a member, approved the £50k donation
This is the danger that some of the Labour supporters on here don't seem to recognise: the relationships between Labour, the Cooperative Party, the Cooperative Group, and the Cooperative Bank, seem rather incestuous. This means that who made what decisions may become rather muddied.
Worse, they may become confused in the public's eyes.
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
Ed Conway @EdConwaySky Remember those coalition commitments to keep health spending rising in real terms? They haven't been met, says OECD http://bit.ly/17sI2L8
You can sum up David Camerons oh so personal commitment to the NHS in three letters, LIE
"A public sector pay freeze in the UK has been a major factor "
Inputs are what matters - more spending, more nurses, more managers - 'headcount up! spending up!' = 'success'......
Ed Conway @EdConwaySky Remember those coalition commitments to keep health spending rising in real terms? They haven't been met, says OECD http://bit.ly/17sI2L8
You can sum up David Camerons oh so personal commitment to the NHS in three letters, LIE
tim you should really read stuff Ed "tickets please" Conway posts before getting excited.
it's health spending per capita - do you really think an examination of the Labour years will prove fruitful ?
And as the OECD mentions..
"A public sector pay freeze in the UK has been a major factor "
Anecdote time - I met a former NHS finance director at a conference earlier this week. He regaled a group of us with a story of total organisational chaos - huge amounts of resources (he said) are being put into monitoring and auditing. Apparently trusts are audited on a range of indicators four times a year and whole swathes of managers are dedicated not to improving healthcare but servicing audits. The targeting regime has become so rigid that it is leading to worse outcomes (ie patients with minor complaints in A&E are being treated before those with more urgent problems purely in order to meet the 4-hour target - staff are under threat of the sack if this target slips, he said). There is a system of financial penalties if hospitals do not meet targets (eg on readmissions) but the only outcome of applying financial penalties to underperforming trusts is to cut their budgets and make it even more difficult for them to improve.
I'm sure there was a certain amount of poetic licence in this account, but it certainly didn't inspire much confidence in the post-Lansley NHS.
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
OT I fear to bring up matters Scotch, but it is increasingly clear that HMG have done a pretty grubby deal with the Welsh Government over their response to the Silk Commission and the Scottish Referendum, witness the First Minister's time north of the Border. It is probable that pressure will now be put on the Attorney General to withdraw his reference in relation to the Agricultural Sector (Wales) Bill.
HMG engaging in grubby deals? Surely not. We are shocked that you would even suggest such a thing.
And to also defame the good name of the Welsh Labour Party. Outrageous.
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
Ed Conway @EdConwaySky Remember those coalition commitments to keep health spending rising in real terms? They haven't been met, says OECD http://bit.ly/17sI2L8
You can sum up David Camerons oh so personal commitment to the NHS in three letters, LIE
"A public sector pay freeze in the UK has been a major factor "
Inputs are what matters - more spending, more nurses, more managers - 'headcount up! spending up!' = 'success'......
More nurses does matter a lot actually, caring hands on deck. If you were in need of urgent care would you prefer to go to hospital with more nurses or fewer?
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
I'm surprised you haven't denounced Ed Balls yet for his 'curtain twitching social conservatism' in referring to Rev Flowers 'rent boys'......surely 'prostitutes' would have avoided allusion to his sexuality?
To you, for one - you accused me of 'making it up'!
I had read the annual report, Carlotta. I knew it was a Board decision rather than something that had been personally arranged by Flowers. That was the claim that was "made up" and Balls has gone out on a limb to reiterate that today.
It's pretty pathetic isn't it? I am starting to think that Crosby and his obsessions will lose the election for the Tories.
By the way, apologies for my attack at you the other night Neil – it was late and I was tired but it was unfair and uncalled for.
Ed Conway @EdConwaySky Remember those coalition commitments to keep health spending rising in real terms? They haven't been met, says OECD http://bit.ly/17sI2L8
You can sum up David Camerons oh so personal commitment to the NHS in three letters, LIE
"A public sector pay freeze in the UK has been a major factor "
Inputs are what matters - more spending, more nurses, more managers - 'headcount up! spending up!' = 'success'......
More nurses does matter a lot actually, caring hands on deck. If you were in need of urgent care would you prefer to go to hospital with more nurses or fewer?
Which is why the coalition in England is going to make Health Trusts publish Nurse staffing levels - good idea, no?
Ed Conway @EdConwaySky Remember those coalition commitments to keep health spending rising in real terms? They haven't been met, says OECD http://bit.ly/17sI2L8
You can sum up David Camerons oh so personal commitment to the NHS in three letters, LIE
tim you should really read stuff Ed "tickets please" Conway posts before getting excited.
it's health spending per capita - do you really think an examination of the Labour years will prove fruitful ?
And as the OECD mentions..
"A public sector pay freeze in the UK has been a major factor "
Anecdote time - I met a former NHS finance director at a conference earlier this week. He regaled a group of us with a story of total organisational chaos - huge amounts of resources (he said) are being put into monitoring and auditing. Apparently trusts are audited on a range of indicators four times a year and whole swathes of managers are dedicated not to improving healthcare but servicing audits. The targeting regime has become so rigid that it is leading to worse outcomes (ie patients with minor complaints in A&E are being treated before those with more urgent problems purely in order to meet the 4-hour target - staff are under threat of the sack if this target slips, he said). There is a system of financial penalties if hospitals do not meet targets (eg on readmissions) but the only outcome of applying financial penalties to underperforming trusts is to cut their budgets and make it even more difficult for them to improve.
I'm sure there was a certain amount of poetic licence in this account, but it certainly didn't inspire much confidence in the post-Lansley NHS.
That sounds right. Fresh from deriding targets, Hunt has been piling more on. In fairness what else can he do.There is simply not enough money in the system to cope with people living longer, but with chronic illness.
To you, for one - you accused me of 'making it up'!
I had read the annual report, Carlotta. I knew it was a Board decision rather than something that had been personally arranged by Flowers. That was the claim that was "made up" and Balls has gone out on a limb to reiterate that today.
It's pretty pathetic isn't it? I am starting to think that Crosby and his obsessions will lose the election for the Tories.
By the way, apologies for my attack at you the other night Neil – it was late and I was tired but it was unfair and uncalled for.
It looks more like a Daily Mail obsession. They're the ones shining a light into the shadows. Can't think why.
At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works
Labour is run by Unite, which is why Ed dare not publish the Falkirk report, and bankrolled by the Co-op, which is why Ed and Ed are pretending they don't know Rev. Flowers
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
I'm surprised you haven't denounced Ed Balls yet for his 'curtain twitching social conservatism' in referring to Rev Flowers 'rent boys'......surely 'prostitutes' would have avoided allusion to his sexuality?
Happy to if that's what he said. He shouldn't have raised it. Who cares?
OT - but Philomena is excellent - what you might expect from Judi Dench - but the surprise is the Steve Coogan script - which wisely give Judi the best lines. Great fun seeing this uncomplicated Mills & Boon loving former Nurse take the cynical Westminster hack off at the knees.....more than once....
At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works
"Labour is run by Unite", which is why Ed dare not publish the Falkirk report, and bankrolled by the Co-op, which is why Ed and Ed are pretending they don't know Rev. Flowers
You actually believe that Labour is run by Unite. Jesus wept.
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
I'm surprised you haven't denounced Ed Balls yet for his 'curtain twitching social conservatism' in referring to Rev Flowers 'rent boys'......surely 'prostitutes' would have avoided allusion to his sexuality?
Happy to if that's what he said. He shouldn't have raised it. Who cares?
Uhm, I think the world cares if Labour's favourite lefty banker, and donor, who also happens to be a vicar, is hiring rent boys and buying cocaine and taking ketamine for homosexual orgies and meanwhile fiddling his expenses, all at the same time.
Of course, if a senior Tory banker and donor who also happened to be a bishop had done all this, you would be demanding all discussion of this tedious non-event was closed immediately. Wouldn't you?
Yes. Let private lives be private. Show me one post of mine where I attack a politician of any shade for 'deviancy', or do one.
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
I'm surprised you haven't denounced Ed Balls yet for his 'curtain twitching social conservatism' in referring to Rev Flowers 'rent boys'......surely 'prostitutes' would have avoided allusion to his sexuality?
Happy to if that's what he said. He shouldn't have raised it. Who cares?
Uhm, I think the world cares if Labour's favourite lefty banker, and donor, who also happens to be a vicar, is hiring rent boys and buying cocaine and taking ketamine for homosexual orgies and meanwhile fiddling his expenses, all at the same time.
Of course, if a senior Tory banker and donor who also happened to be a bishop had done all this, you would be demanding all discussion of this tedious non-event was closed immediately. Wouldn't you?
There's no child benefit angle, so Bobajob doesn't care.
At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works
"Labour is run by Unite", which is why Ed dare not publish the Falkirk report, and bankrolled by the Co-op, which is why Ed and Ed are pretending they don't know Rev. Flowers
You actually believe that Labour is run by Unite. Jesus wept.
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
I'm surprised you haven't denounced Ed Balls yet for his 'curtain twitching social conservatism' in referring to Rev Flowers 'rent boys'......surely 'prostitutes' would have avoided allusion to his sexuality?
Happy to if that's what he said. He shouldn't have raised it. Who cares?
Uhm, I think the world cares if Labour's favourite lefty banker, and donor, who also happens to be a vicar, is hiring rent boys and buying cocaine and taking ketamine for homosexual orgies and meanwhile fiddling his expenses, all at the same time.
Of course, if a senior Tory banker and donor who also happened to be a bishop had done all this, you would be demanding all discussion of this tedious non-event was closed immediately. Wouldn't you?
There's no child benefit angle, so Bobajob doesn't care.
Senior businesspeople taking drugs and having paid-for sex isn't at all rare. This guy got caught.
You are right, I don't care. That so many people do says more about them than me.
At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works
"Labour is run by Unite", which is why Ed dare not publish the Falkirk report, and bankrolled by the Co-op, which is why Ed and Ed are pretending they don't know Rev. Flowers
You actually believe that Labour is run by Unite. Jesus wept.
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
I'm surprised you haven't denounced Ed Balls yet for his 'curtain twitching social conservatism' in referring to Rev Flowers 'rent boys'......surely 'prostitutes' would have avoided allusion to his sexuality?
Happy to if that's what he said. He shouldn't have raised it. Who cares?
You do when you think a PBTory has.....your "Curtain twitching social conservatives" ...
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
I'm surprised you haven't denounced Ed Balls yet for his 'curtain twitching social conservatism' in referring to Rev Flowers 'rent boys'......surely 'prostitutes' would have avoided allusion to his sexuality?
Happy to if that's what he said. He shouldn't have raised it. Who cares?
You do when you think a PBTory has.....your "Curtain twitching social conservatives" ...
That's what I'm saying – that Balls should not have raised it. It's irrelevant.
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
I'm surprised you haven't denounced Ed Balls yet for his 'curtain twitching social conservatism' in referring to Rev Flowers 'rent boys'......surely 'prostitutes' would have avoided allusion to his sexuality?
Happy to if that's what he said. He shouldn't have raised it. Who cares?
Uhm, I think the world cares if Labour's favourite lefty banker, and donor, who also happens to be a vicar, is hiring rent boys and buying cocaine and taking ketamine for homosexual orgies and meanwhile fiddling his expenses, all at the same time.
Of course, if a senior Tory banker and donor who also happened to be a bishop had done all this, you would be demanding all discussion of this tedious non-event was closed immediately. Wouldn't you?
Yes. Let private lives be private. Show me one post of mine where I attack a politician of any shade for 'deviancy', or do one.
[snip]
AND it seems he fiddled his expenses and got away with it in the past.
But according to you this is his "private life" and is therefore not up for discussion??
If this was a Tory banker I would happily confess this was big juicy news, which deserved an airing. It's called a free society. You want us to stop talking about any of it.
Weird.
You talk about it as much as you like Sean. But be aware that buying cocaine is not rare among senior businesspeople. It's a puerile story and the guy's life is probably ruined. yet you laugh at him.
At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works
"Labour is run by Unite", which is why Ed dare not publish the Falkirk report, and bankrolled by the Co-op, which is why Ed and Ed are pretending they don't know Rev. Flowers
You actually believe that Labour is run by Unite. Jesus wept.
Co-Op went on an acquisition spree -bought up Somerfield, Britannia Building Society after mergers of Manchester based Co-Op Society with Rochdale's United Co-Operative Society. Looks as if it was getting bigger and bigger, possibly too big for its rather complex organisational structure. Oddly enough, few had said, slow down guys, manage what you have well, rather than keep on adding to it.
Plenty of leaks about Rev Flower's past life reaching the media, looks like some score settling, surely it can't be Labour The Nasty Party...
@SeanT - You missed out the funniest bit: a Methodist vicar
Don't think you get Methodist vicars do you? Preachers or ministers. Only slightly more likely to get Tory CofE Bishops, but that's a different matter.
At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works
"Labour is run by Unite", which is why Ed dare not publish the Falkirk report, and bankrolled by the Co-op, which is why Ed and Ed are pretending they don't know Rev. Flowers
You actually believe that Labour is run by Unite. Jesus wept.
You actually believe it isn't ?
Yes. It's a funder. It doesn't run the party.
Does it have a massive influence on policy ?
It has an influence. Not a massive influence.
I will now go away for a while. This will be described as a flounce, but it is more to save my own brain from turning to mush from spending too much time on here. I am becoming one of you!
At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works
"Labour is run by Unite", which is why Ed dare not publish the Falkirk report, and bankrolled by the Co-op, which is why Ed and Ed are pretending they don't know Rev. Flowers
You actually believe that Labour is run by Unite. Jesus wept.
From 4 years ago - some in Labour think that, http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/04/21/is-truelabour-right-to-worry-about-unite/ “If the Conservative party had a single donor called UnitePLC that provided 40% of its donations, provided the CEO of the Conservative party, had its Head of PR setup websites for the Conservatives, hired people like Derek McPoison to run smear campaigns, unfairly influenced the process whereby many of its UnitePLC employees become Conservative MPs through donations and Uniteplc block votes in CLPs….. we would all be outraged at the infiltration of the Conservative party by a single company. But if we just changed the word Conservative to Labour in the above and deleted “plc” we arrive at the state of the Labour party.”
Ed Conway @EdConwaySky Remember those coalition commitments to keep health spending rising in real terms? They haven't been met, says OECD http://bit.ly/17sI2L8
You can sum up David Camerons oh so personal commitment to the NHS in three letters, LIE
tim you should really read stuff Ed "tickets please" Conway posts before getting excited.
it's health spending per capita - do you really think an examination of the Labour years will prove fruitful ?
And as the OECD mentions..
"A public sector pay freeze in the UK has been a major factor "
Anecdote time - I met a former NHS finance director at a conference earlier this week. He regaled a group of us with a story of total organisational chaos - huge amounts of resources (he said) are being put into monitoring and auditing. Apparently trusts are audited on a range of indicators four times a year and whole swathes of managers are dedicated not to improving healthcare but servicing audits. The targeting regime has become so rigid that it is leading to worse outcomes (ie patients with minor complaints in A&E are being treated before those with more urgent problems purely in order to meet the 4-hour target - staff are under threat of the sack if this target slips, he said). There is a system of financial penalties if hospitals do not meet targets (eg on readmissions) but the only outcome of applying financial penalties to underperforming trusts is to cut their budgets and make it even more difficult for them to improve.
I'm sure there was a certain amount of poetic licence in this account, but it certainly didn't inspire much confidence in the post-Lansley NHS.
That sounds right. Fresh from deriding targets, Hunt has been piling more on. In fairness what else can he do.There is simply not enough money in the system to cope with people living longer, but with chronic illness.
The damage Lansley did is immense, hopefully it will cost Cameron his job and he can spend a few decades contemplating using his family to lie
I doubt he'll be too bothered tim.
Like most before him, he'll likely find immense riches elsewhere, happy in the knowledge that he didn't start any wars.
“If the Conservative party had a single donor called UnitePLC that provided 40% of its donations, provided the CEO of the Conservative party, had its Head of PR setup websites for the Conservatives, hired people like Derek McPoison to run smear campaigns, unfairly influenced the process whereby many of its UnitePLC employees become Conservative MPs through donations and Uniteplc block votes in CLPs….. we would all be outraged at the infiltration of the Conservative party by a single company. But if we just changed the word Conservative to Labour in the above and deleted “plc” we arrive at the state of the Labour party.”
I suppose people think it's acceptable to represent the interests of ordinary working people but less acceptable to represent the interests of, say, traders whose companies fiddle LIBOR.
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
I'm surprised you haven't denounced Ed Balls yet for his 'curtain twitching social conservatism' in referring to Rev Flowers 'rent boys'......surely 'prostitutes' would have avoided allusion to his sexuality?
Happy to if that's what he said. He shouldn't have raised it. Who cares?
You do when you think a PBTory has.....your "Curtain twitching social conservatives" ...
That's what I'm saying – that Balls should not have raised it. It's irrelevant.
And that has how the vast majority of the coverage - and responses on here have been about - he bought drugs to entice young prostitutes into having sex with him - their gender is irrelevant.
Similarly (with all due respect to the PMBod) had a senior Labour politician, spouse of a prominent anti-porn campaigner tweeted pics of opposite gender mammaries the response would have been very similar - tho of course the marital row might have been different....
At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works
"Labour is run by Unite", which is why Ed dare not publish the Falkirk report, and bankrolled by the Co-op, which is why Ed and Ed are pretending they don't know Rev. Flowers
You actually believe that Labour is run by Unite. Jesus wept.
You actually believe it isn't ?
Yes. It's a funder. It doesn't run the party.
Does it have a massive influence on policy ?
At the local level union influence is pretty much zero IMO. My CLP raises about 90% of its money through subscriptions and fundraising events from its own members and supporters. Union persons are conspicuous by their absence at most meetings. They sometimes turn up at election time, make extravagant promises of support, which they usually completely fail to live up to, and then disappear again. As for the Co-Op - they give a tiny annual sum - about £30 I think - and that's it.
“If the Conservative party had a single donor called UnitePLC that provided 40% of its donations, provided the CEO of the Conservative party, had its Head of PR setup websites for the Conservatives, hired people like Derek McPoison to run smear campaigns, unfairly influenced the process whereby many of its UnitePLC employees become Conservative MPs through donations and Uniteplc block votes in CLPs….. we would all be outraged at the infiltration of the Conservative party by a single company. But if we just changed the word Conservative to Labour in the above and deleted “plc” we arrive at the state of the Labour party.”
I suppose people think it's acceptable to represent the interests of ordinary working people but less acceptable to represent the interests of, say, traders whose companies fiddle LIBOR.
Did UNITE represent the ordinary workers of Grangemouth?
As for the bankers, like them or not they STILL provide a large chunk of the taxes that fund the British economy; .
This claim is often made but is it not the case that the cost of government subsidies and guarantees to the financial sector since 2008 must be well in excess of the taxes paid by banks? Not to mention the cost to the economy of the output that has been lost through the banking failures which were a key cause of the recession.
“If the Conservative party had a single donor called UnitePLC that provided 40% of its donations, provided the CEO of the Conservative party, had its Head of PR setup websites for the Conservatives, hired people like Derek McPoison to run smear campaigns, unfairly influenced the process whereby many of its UnitePLC employees become Conservative MPs through donations and Uniteplc block votes in CLPs….. we would all be outraged at the infiltration of the Conservative party by a single company. But if we just changed the word Conservative to Labour in the above and deleted “plc” we arrive at the state of the Labour party.”
I suppose people think it's acceptable to represent the interests of ordinary working people but less acceptable to represent the interests of, say, traders whose companies fiddle LIBOR.
Did UNITE represent the ordinary workers of Grangemouth?
As for the bankers, like them or not they STILL provide a large chunk of the taxes that fund the British economy; .
This claim is often made but is it not the case that the cost of government subsidies and guarantees to the financial sector since 2008 must be well in excess of the taxes paid by banks? Not to mention the cost to the economy of the output that has been lost through the banking failures which were a key cause of the recession.
they'd probably be better off without a union altogether
The last statistics I saw showed that members of unions usually get paid more, have better pensions, more time off, safer workplaces than non unionised workplaces.
But, hey, why not turn the clock back to before there were unions? Working people did very well back then.
Incestuous as in they are all part of the Labour movement? Incestuous as in Unite incestuous, it's an affiliate trade union in the Labour movement. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, merely that incestuous is rather an odd word to use given that they are openly partner bodies in the same movement.
You're right, they are partners, working closely together in the same movement. Precisely so.
As is no secret to anyone. At least you have a vague understanding of how the Labour movement works, unlike some of the numpties on here.
I'm surprised you haven't denounced Ed Balls yet for his 'curtain twitching social conservatism' in referring to Rev Flowers 'rent boys'......surely 'prostitutes' would have avoided allusion to his sexuality?
Happy to if that's what he said. He shouldn't have raised it. Who cares?
You do when you think a PBTory has.....your "Curtain twitching social conservatives" ...
That's what I'm saying – that Balls should not have raised it. It's irrelevant.
And that has how the vast majority of the coverage - and responses on here have been about - he bought drugs to entice young prostitutes into having sex with him - their gender is irrelevant.
Similarly (with all due respect to the PMBod) had a senior Labour politician, spouse of a prominent anti-porn campaigner tweeted pics of opposite gender mammaries the response would have been very similar - tho of course the marital row might have been different....
You're still being too kind to Mr Dromey. He didn't *favourite* the hetero male equivalent of a boob shot. He favourited the BBC.
BBGC, surely?
Balls is very far from stupid, and knows exactly what dogwhistle the average labour voter responds to on the issue of gays.
“If the Conservative party had a single donor called UnitePLC that provided 40% of its donations, provided the CEO of the Conservative party, had its Head of PR setup websites for the Conservatives, hired people like Derek McPoison to run smear campaigns, unfairly influenced the process whereby many of its UnitePLC employees become Conservative MPs through donations and Uniteplc block votes in CLPs….. we would all be outraged at the infiltration of the Conservative party by a single company. But if we just changed the word Conservative to Labour in the above and deleted “plc” we arrive at the state of the Labour party.”
I suppose people think it's acceptable to represent the interests of ordinary working people but less acceptable to represent the interests of, say, traders whose companies fiddle LIBOR.
Did UNITE represent the ordinary workers of Grangemouth?
As for the bankers, like them or not they STILL provide a large chunk of the taxes that fund the British economy; they are also crucial to London, which is the mighty, world class, economic engine of the nation. Without them we're f*cked.
Not sure you can say the same about Len McCluskey.
How many gazillion pounds have we fed to these cretins, the amount of tax they pay is miniscule compared to what it cost us to bail them out. Unprincipled robbers aided and abetted by their chums. The rest of teh country has paid a very high price to keep bankers and London at the trough.
they'd probably be better off without a union altogether
The last statistics I saw showed that members of unions usually get paid more, have better pensions, more time off, safer workplaces than non unionised workplaces.
But, hey, why not turn the clock back to before there were unions? Working people did very well back then.
This is simply a function of unionised workforces now being concentrated, overwhelmingly, in the useless, parasitic public sector, which was liberally showered with our money by Labour. The private sector, which actually has to earn a living to keep the country going, cannot afford to give its selfless workers the 3 day weeks and £5m pensions and platinum bum guns enjoyed by the waddling fat toads "employed" by the state.
Unions ain't got nothing to do with it.
There's almost enough hard statistical analysis in that post for one of your blogs, SeanT.
Front page of the Sun - First decent headline for the conservatives in ages. Cameron vowing to 'cut the green crap' I reckon there'll be a ~ 3 pt swing from UKIP -> Con in the next few opinion polls.
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This is simply a function of unionised workforces now being concentrated, overwhelmingly, in the useless, parasitic public sector, which was liberally showered with our money by Labour. The private sector, which actually has to earn a living to keep the country going, cannot afford to give its selfless workers the 3 day weeks and £5m pensions and platinum bum guns enjoyed by the waddling fat toads "employed" by the state.
There is probably a PhD thesis or two in elements of government services that have been outsourced.
Some of the staff were TUPEd and remained on civil service T&C, willing to accept block negotiated 1% pay rises and retain their gold plated pension.
Some staff were on "standard" terms of the outsourcer, who had to buy their own pensions, but as employees of global companies operating pay for performance could move around the World and double their pay a matter of years.
they'd probably be better off without a union altogether
The last statistics I saw showed that members of unions usually get paid more, have better pensions, more time off, safer workplaces than non unionised workplaces.
But, hey, why not turn the clock back to before there were unions? Working people did very well back then.
Speak to the members of the NUM about that one. Oh wait, they're not there any more. The same fate waits the others.
Please explain how an employees of 'exploitative' businesses such as, for example, self employed mechanic, window clearner can be unionised, and why it would be a good thing to do so.
Balls is very far from stupid, and knows exactly what dogwhistle the average labour voter responds to on the issue of gays.
That's probably why Labour spent so much time and energy on the gay rights agenda while in government.
It's kind of built in to the metaphor in "dogwhistle" that you send out one message explicitly and audibly, and quite another one subliminally. So thank you for reinforcing my point.
Some staff were on "standard" terms of the outsourcer, who had to buy their own pensions, but as employees of global companies operating pay for performance could move around the World and double their pay a matter of years.
But back in the real world. If you think the new entrants were in the better tier of two tier workforces you really are in some fantasy world completely unconnected to reality.
Balls is very far from stupid, and knows exactly what dogwhistle the average labour voter responds to on the issue of gays.
That's probably why Labour spent so much time and energy on the gay rights agenda while in government.
It's kind of built in to the metaphor in "dogwhistle" that you send out one message explicitly and audibly, and quite another one subliminally. So thank you for reinforcing my point.
Your point is that while equalising the age of consent, legislating for civil partnerships, allowing gays in the military, outlawing discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation and repealing Section 28 Labour was keeping in with the homophobes by using the term "rent boys" from time to time. Well, it's a point.
Something about the juxtaposition of "the struggling Co-op" with "depraved sex sessions" has the smack of journalistic genius, especially when added to "plush". Give that sub-editor a promotion.
Comments
I hope the women get the help they need.
Challenged about Mr Flowers’ evidence to MPs, Mr Balls cast doubt on his honesty: “He was someone who was buying drugs and engaged with rent boys. He has made a lot of allegations. There is no truth in that at all.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10465404/Ed-Balls-proud-of-50000-donation-linked-to-disgraced-cocaine-Co-op-chairman.html
UKIP abstained.......
Might want to know the circumstances until political points smearing..
Still nice to know where your priorities are.....
You're really off-form. Take some lessons from SeanT; he's much better at insulting people.
http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/11/what-milibandism
To the gallows !
BTW, I've got no idea how a Chubb lock works. That's too much like mechanical engineering for my liking. :-)
Particularly as we are the second biggest net contributor!!
It's like going to a restaurant and being told what to eat by a terse, rude waiter.
JJ is right - you have lost it.
You put the key in and turn it.
:-)
I'm impressed! I imagine they're wondering if they can wangle out of it now but I think they'll probably pay out in the end, you certainly cant lose.
Will they ask for the £50k back from Balls?
@ToryTreasury: Bad news for Balls: p.51 of Co-op Group's 2012 Annual Report says the Group Board, of which Flowers was a member, approved the £50k donation
Worse, they may become confused in the public's eyes.
it's health spending per capita - do you really think an examination of the Labour years will prove fruitful ?
And as the OECD mentions..
"A public sector pay freeze in the UK has been a major factor "
I'm sure there was a certain amount of poetic licence in this account, but it certainly didn't inspire much confidence in the post-Lansley NHS.
And to also defame the good name of the Welsh Labour Party. Outrageous.
By the way, apologies for my attack at you the other night Neil – it was late and I was tired but it was unfair and uncalled for.
What's happening in Labour Wales?
In fairness what else can he do.There is simply not enough money in the system to cope with people living longer, but with chronic illness.
You are right, I don't care. That so many people do says more about them than me.
'This matter did not preclude him from his activities in the church.' according to a Methodist spokesman.
No conflict with the ideals of the Temperance Movement then.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/21/co-op-bank-paul-flowers-drug-charity-investigation-expenses
Plenty of leaks about Rev Flower's past life reaching the media, looks like some score settling, surely it can't be Labour The Nasty Party...
Only slightly more likely to get Tory CofE Bishops, but that's a different matter.
I will now go away for a while. This will be described as a flounce, but it is more to save my own brain from turning to mush from spending too much time on here. I am becoming one of you!
http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/04/21/is-truelabour-right-to-worry-about-unite/
“If the Conservative party had a single donor called UnitePLC that provided 40% of its donations, provided the CEO of the Conservative party, had its Head of PR setup websites for the Conservatives, hired people like Derek McPoison to run smear campaigns, unfairly influenced the process whereby many of its UnitePLC employees become Conservative MPs through donations and Uniteplc block votes in CLPs….. we would all be outraged at the infiltration of the Conservative party by a single company. But if we just changed the word Conservative to Labour in the above and deleted “plc” we arrive at the state of the Labour party.”
They're all the same.
Like most before him, he'll likely find immense riches elsewhere, happy in the knowledge that he didn't start any wars.
Similarly (with all due respect to the PMBod) had a senior Labour politician, spouse of a prominent anti-porn campaigner tweeted pics of opposite gender mammaries the response would have been very similar - tho of course the marital row might have been different....
UNITE is its members, ordinary workers; not Len McCluskey, no matter how much you or others like to obsess about him.
Do the ordinary members of Grangemouth get paid what Len get's paid ?
Did the ordinary members of Grangemouth put a flyer with Ed's coupon on it in the leader voting pack ?
Did the ordinary members of Grangemouth shit themselves and sacrifice the Union flunkey when the owner called Pat Rafferty's bluff ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25030372
We need them more than we do Len.
But, hey, why not turn the clock back to before there were unions? Working people did very well back then.
Balls is very far from stupid, and knows exactly what dogwhistle the average labour voter responds to on the issue of gays.
Just my thoughts !
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Some of the staff were TUPEd and remained on civil service T&C, willing to accept block negotiated 1% pay rises and retain their gold plated pension.
Some staff were on "standard" terms of the outsourcer, who had to buy their own pensions, but as employees of global companies operating pay for performance could move around the World and double their pay a matter of years.
Please explain how an employees of 'exploitative' businesses such as, for example, self employed mechanic, window clearner can be unionised, and why it would be a good thing to do so.
For your own safety, don't try it in a mosque, another bedrock of Labour support.
Jeremy Vine @theJeremyVine 18 Nov
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Jeremy Vine @theJeremyVine 18 Nov
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