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  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    ydoethur said:

    Yes, that would create a difficulty. This is true of a lot of Labour held seats that might otherwise be attractive targets for the Remain Alliance, such as Bristol West, Norwich South, Cambridge, Leeds North-West, etc.

    Surely the most difficult question is what to do in Leave seats with Remain MPs, who really would be at risk in a Brexit dominated election. Caroline Flint springs to mind (if she stands again) or Mary Creagh.

    Do they cut a deal with them even though Labour is not a Remainer party? Can they even do so?
    The thread header talks about a deal in 70 seats. Across the UK there are 63 seats which voted Remain by >65% and a further 99 seats which voted Remain by >55%. Some of these 162 seats will be in Scotland or Northern Ireland, or already held by the Lib Dems, Plaid or Greens, but I would guess that the remainder will account for the 70 seats to be targeted by the Remain Alliance.

    So the other seats we can presume will essentially have [several] paper candidates [each] from the Remain Alliance.
    The deal has already been done in all the Welsh seats. That is 40 seats.

    There are 30 seats left for England & Scotland. Presumably this includes the seats with the current LibDem MPs.

    In almost all the Welsh seats, I just don't think this "Remain Alliance" will have much effect, except to depress the Plaid Cymru vote.

    Perhaps in Brecon & Radnorshire (though YDoethur argues to the contrary), perhaps in Montgomeryshire. All to the marginal benefit of the LibDems.

    Good luck to Plaid in winning votes in the Valleys.

    The plucky LibDems have left Plaid Cymru the job of knocking on the doors of the Brexit voting majority in these areas and telling them they’re as thick as two short planks and a bunch of racists and they can’t be trusted to vote the way 'the Remain Alliance' wanted them to.
  • How on earth can Hillary be laid at 13.5?

    It's because the sane have maxed out.
    Does this mean an old bet on Gabbard at 22 is good value?
    "Asking for a friend"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    nico67 said:

    Does Trump actively want to create another migration crisis in Europe?

    https://twitter.com/sppeoples/status/1182024931615358976?s=21

    Worse than that . He’s basically saying he doesn’t give a fig if they come back to Europe and cause carnage .

    The Kurds have been instrumental in defeating ISIS and the thanks they get is to be stabbed in the back and now the nutjob Erdogan is going to run riot .

    Utterly despicable actions from Trump .
    Not giving a fig is one thing, but I think he actually calculates that this would help his re-election campaign.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Does Trump actively want to create another migration crisis in Europe?

    https://twitter.com/sppeoples/status/1182024931615358976?s=21

    Well Russia helped create the first one, and Russia controls Trump. So it's less about what Trump wants and more about what he'll do.
    We need to have a sharp word with Turkey about this.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The 1959 election is being broadcast live on BBC4 if anyone's interested.

    Live?

    Have we travelled back in time? Can we rerun 2016 without the referendum?
    I think it is very encouraging that we have developed time travel and are only using for responsible purposes, to enjoy historical moments like observing British General Elections.
    😁😁😁
  • humbuggerhumbugger Posts: 377
    Is anyone aware of any previous occasion where parliament has passed a law instructing a PM to do something and specifying how that something must be done? Is the Benn Act a first?
  • Andy_JS said:

    The 1959 election is being broadcast live on BBC4 if anyone's interested.

    Live?

    Have we travelled back in time? Can we rerun 2016 without the referendum?
    What do you mean 'Live'. You must think some of us haven't been born yet!

    I was born in 1965 so that means ..... oops (disappears)!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How dare anyone try to impersonate BritainElects or Opinium.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1181937892194705415

    I'm intrigued now, what did the fake poll say?
    It had Con on 40%. #FakePollingNews
    Uhuh. Dom's black ops?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Another attempt to dig up dirt on political opponents in exchange for a free trade deal/missile system?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The 1959 election is being broadcast live on BBC4 if anyone's interested.

    Live?

    Have we travelled back in time? Can we rerun 2016 without the referendum?
    I think it is very encouraging that we have developed time travel and are only using for responsible purposes, to enjoy historical moments like observing British General Elections.
    Any chance we could use it to see how Brexit turns out and save ourselves months (years?) of endless debate?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    How on earth can Hillary be laid at 13.5?

    It's because the sane have maxed out.
    Does this mean an old bet on Gabbard at 22 is good value?
    "Asking for a friend"
    Buttigieg is better at 16.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Noo said:

    Trump's an absolute [insert language that gets you banned from PB]

    https://twitter.com/SenatorRomney/status/1182015168466882560

    Starting to serious reappraise Romney. He is standing up for proper American values and sentiments. At least some are in the GOP.
    Mitt Romney was the one in 2012 who correctly identified Russia as the most serious strategic threat to the United States. He was laughed at at the time, because most people thought he was harking back to a very out of date view of the world, but in fact he was noticing the change in tone from Putin, from being a bit of a pussycat to adopting a quite nasty attitude towards the west. It was around the time that Putin was seriously embracing fascism.

    Within four years, Putin had launched a hybrid war against Ukraine, attacked the democratic processes in USA and the UK, including hacking voting machines in all 50 US states in 2016, engaged in a terrifying campaign of civilian bombardment in Syria aimed at driving more refugees across the Mediterranean, and creating an RT- and Twitter-based propaganda machine designed to boost fascist parties in Europe, spread hatred of Muslims, destroy people's faith in democracy, destroy people's faith in media organisations, and destroy the concept of objective truth itself.

    As much as I despise the Republican party for its virulently anti-progress standpoint, Romney deserves praise for being ahead of the curve on spotting where Putin was going. Obama, whom I like, was caught with his pants down over Russia. Inexcusable failure on his part.
    :+1:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,605
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Syria decision is Trump's first serious mistake IMO.

    No, going into business was Trump's first mistake.

    Everything else flows naturally from that.
    Trump going into business was an inevitable reaction against hyper-liberalism.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    The Village People are looking old these days.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    humbugger said:

    Is anyone aware of any previous occasion where parliament has passed a law instructing a PM to do something and specifying how that something must be done? Is the Benn Act a first?

    It’s very unusual . I can’t remember that happening before. But we live in exceptional times .
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    Re Trump,

    The most important thing to remember is that - like a lot of rich people - he thinks only in terms of relative performance.

    If the US does better than the EU, Japan and China, then his tenure has been a success. Even if the numbers are -10, -15, -20 and -25, then the US has outpeformed and he is a winner.

    So, things that negatively affect the EU or China's economic growth (or political stability) are to be encouraged. Because they help the US "win", even if it is at the cost of Americans being - in absolute terms - poorer.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited October 2019
    He what now? What does that...why is he...I give up.

    I know Trump probably says a lot of things designed to provoke apoplectic or confused reactions out of people who already do not like him, and as astonishing as his remarks often are they haven't hurt him to date, but it's increasingly difficult to believe there's method in the madness.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    edited October 2019
    nico67 said:

    humbugger said:

    Is anyone aware of any previous occasion where parliament has passed a law instructing a PM to do something and specifying how that something must be done? Is the Benn Act a first?

    It’s very unusual . I can’t remember that happening before. But we live in exceptional times .
    Didn't the Cooper-Letwin Act (European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019) effectively do this too?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_(Withdrawal)_Act_2019
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited October 2019
    humbugger said:

    Is anyone aware of any previous occasion where parliament has passed a law instructing a PM to do something and specifying how that something must be done? Is the Benn Act a first?

    No I don't think it's ever happened before.
  • kle4 said:

    He what now? What does that...why is he...I give up.

    I know Trump probably says a lot of things designed to provoke apoplectic or confused reactions out of people who already do not like him, and as astonishing as his remarks often are they haven't hurt him to date, but it's increasingly difficult to believe there's method in the madness.
    https://twitter.com/jamiedupree/status/1182034394925670402
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    In terms of election campaigning what’s the excepted norms .

    Are you allowed to use a foreign politician in your campaign material.

    Clearly the best way for Labour is to tie Bozo to Trump .
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    ydoethur said:

    Yes, that would create a difficulty. This is true of a lot of Labour held seats that might otherwise be attractive targets for the Remain Alliance, such as Bristol West, Norwich South, Cambridge, Leeds North-West, etc.

    Surely the most difficult question is what to do in Leave seats with Remain MPs, who really would be at risk in a Brexit dominated election. Caroline Flint springs to mind (if she stands again) or Mary Creagh.

    Do they cut a deal with them even though Labour is not a Remainer party? Can they even do so?
    The thread header talks about a deal in 70 seats. Across the UK there are 63 seats which voted Remain by >65% and a further 99 seats which voted Remain by >55%. Some of these 162 seats will be in Scotland or Northern Ireland, or already held by the Lib Dems, Plaid or Greens, but I would guess that the remainder will account for the 70 seats to be targeted by the Remain Alliance.

    So the other seats we can presume will essentially have [several] paper candidates [each] from the Remain Alliance.
    The deal has already been done in all the Welsh seats. That is 40 seats.

    There are 30 seats left for England & Scotland. Presumably this includes the seats with the current LibDem MPs.

    In almost all the Welsh seats, I just don't think this "Remain Alliance" will have much effect, except to depress the Plaid Cymru vote.

    Perhaps in Brecon & Radnorshire (though YDoethur argues to the contrary), perhaps in Montgomeryshire. All to the marginal benefit of the LibDems.

    Good luck to Plaid in winning votes in the Valleys.

    The plucky LibDems have left Plaid Cymru the job of knocking on the doors of the Brexit voting majority in these areas and telling them they’re as thick as two short planks and a bunch of racists and they can’t be trusted to vote the way 'the Remain Alliance' wanted them to.
    Are you sure? The article says only "key seats" and specifies "England and Wales", and that the dynamics are different in Scotland and Northern Ireland. It doesn't say that the deal will apply to all 40 seats in Wales. It could just be for half a dozen.
  • ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    How likely is it today that a crowd would burst into 'For he's a jolly good fellow' following a declaration? I noticed that happened at both Billericay and Exeter in 1959.

    Considerably less likely than in 1959 given a much higher proportion are not 'fellows.'
    And none of them is jolly good.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    humbugger said:

    Is anyone aware of any previous occasion where parliament has passed a law instructing a PM to do something and specifying how that something must be done? Is the Benn Act a first?

    It’s very unusual . I can’t remember that happening before. But we live in exceptional times .
    Didn't the Cooper-Letwin Act (European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019) effectively do this too?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_(Withdrawal)_Act_2019


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_(Withdrawal)_Act_2019
    It wasn’t so pointed in terms of actions and didn’t set out a template for the letter . May was useless but isn’t a law breaker .
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    I am amused that psephology is really the study of pebbles.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Yeh Gods. Beyond belief.

    Hang your heads in utter shame Republicans. How can you get up in the mornings?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    rcs1000 said:

    Re Trump,

    The most important thing to remember is that - like a lot of rich people - he thinks only in terms of relative performance.

    If the US does better than the EU, Japan and China, then his tenure has been a success. Even if the numbers are -10, -15, -20 and -25, then the US has outpeformed and he is a winner.

    So, things that negatively affect the EU or China's economic growth (or political stability) are to be encouraged. Because they help the US "win", even if it is at the cost of Americans being - in absolute terms - poorer.

    I remember a question to US citizens 25 years plus ago in the economist. At the time Japan was thought likely to outperform the US in the long-term. The question was to "stop Japan outperforming the US would they support a lower US growth rate, which would stifle Japan's growth" and the respondents replied in the affirmative. So it validates your view of Trump, thinking he is winning when he is losing!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    edited October 2019
    Increasingly feel that the 25th Amendment is going to eject Trump before any impeachment.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    humbugger said:

    Is anyone aware of any previous occasion where parliament has passed a law instructing a PM to do something and specifying how that something must be done? Is the Benn Act a first?

    I cannot imagine there would have been a previous time, because generally the way to achieve it would be to change the identity of the Prime Minister, and it is only the special circumstances of this time - the Brexit split crossing party lines when the leader of the opposition is so toxic to MPs who might otherwise cross the floor - that has made it possible.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Andy_JS said:

    The Syria decision is Trump's first serious mistake IMO.

    Presumably you mean this week?
  • humbuggerhumbugger Posts: 377
    edited October 2019
    nico67 said:

    humbugger said:

    Is anyone aware of any previous occasion where parliament has passed a law instructing a PM to do something and specifying how that something must be done? Is the Benn Act a first?

    It’s very unusual . I can’t remember that happening before. But we live in exceptional times .
    I thought so too. Somebody downthread raised (facetiously I suspect) the prospect that the Benn Act infringed the PM's human rights. That reminded me of a recent column in the Sunday Times by Dominic Lawson which IIRC suggested that there is no precedent for parliament instructing a PM in the way the Benn Act does and that doing so is simply not the constitutional role of parliament. Might it be challenged in the courts on this basis?

    My apologies if this point has been covered previously on PB.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Floater said:
    They claim it was a typo... I can’t work out what for?!
    Nurtured
    Ok that works
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Increasingly feel that the 25th Amendment is going to do for Trump before any impeachment.

    Difficult to get away with that when he's so clearly lucid a lot of the time.
    He has his moments when one can believe he has dementia but he's clearly walking and talking, so any putative incapacity would be extremely difficult to justify.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Pesky fake polls !
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    How likely is it today that a crowd would burst into 'For he's a jolly good fellow' following a declaration? I noticed that happened at both Billericay and Exeter in 1959.

    Considerably less likely than in 1959 given a much higher proportion are not 'fellows.'
    And none of them is jolly good.
    It was only ever being polite, I suspect, rather than as a genuine indicator of jolly goodness. I expect we have a rose tinted views of politicians of a bygone age. There are probably people nostalgic for MPs of the 80s, but of the ones who are left from that time probably only half are any good.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Noo said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I am contemplating life as a criminal in retirement feeding kitchen scraps to my chickens.

    Fortunately there are few policemen in rural Cumbria and those that exist are busy investigating thefts of scones from tea shops.

    So I may get away with it.

    But, sshhhhh, don't tell anyone.

    I'll find a policewoman to arrest you ;)
    So my gin and lemon was not enough for you then.

    😥
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Increasingly feel that the 25th Amendment is going to eject Trump before any impeachment.

    Very much doubt it. His Cabinet is stuffed full of business friends isn't it?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    ydoethur said:

    Yes, that would create a difficulty. This is true of a lot of Labour held seats that might otherwise be attractive targets for the Remain Alliance, such as Bristol West, Norwich South, Cambridge, Leeds North-West, etc.

    Surely the most difficult question is what to do in Leave seats with Remain MPs, who really would be at risk in a Brexit dominated election. Caroline Flint springs to mind (if she stands again) or Mary Creagh.

    Do they cut a deal with them even though Labour is not a Remainer party? Can they even do so?
    The thread header talks about a deal in 70 seats. Across the UK there are 63 seats which voted Remain by >65% and a further 99 seats which voted Remain by >55%. Some of these 162 seats will be in Scotland or Northern Ireland, or already held by the Lib Dems, Plaid or Greens, but I would guess that the remainder will account for the 70 seats to be targeted by the Remain Alliance.

    So the other seats we can presume will essentially have [several] paper candidates [each] from the Remain Alliance.
    The deal has already been done in all the Welsh seats. That is 40 seats.

    There are 30 seats left for England & Scotland. Presumably this includes the seats with the current LibDem MPs.

    In almost all the Welsh seats, I just don't think this "Remain Alliance" will have much effect, except to depress the Plaid Cymru vote.

    Perhaps in Brecon & Radnorshire (though YDoethur argues to the contrary), perhaps in Montgomeryshire. All to the marginal benefit of the LibDems.

    Good luck to Plaid in winning votes in the Valleys.

    The plucky LibDems have left Plaid Cymru the job of knocking on the doors of the Brexit voting majority in these areas and telling them they’re as thick as two short planks and a bunch of racists and they can’t be trusted to vote the way 'the Remain Alliance' wanted them to.
    Are you sure? The article says only "key seats" and specifies "England and Wales", and that the dynamics are different in Scotland and Northern Ireland. It doesn't say that the deal will apply to all 40 seats in Wales. It could just be for half a dozen.
    In all the Welsh seats (except Ceredigion) there will be a Remain Alliance between Plaid Cymru/LibDems/Greens. That is 39 seats.

    I don't know where OGH got the figure "70+" from for England & Wales.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    humbugger said:

    nico67 said:

    humbugger said:

    Is anyone aware of any previous occasion where parliament has passed a law instructing a PM to do something and specifying how that something must be done? Is the Benn Act a first?

    It’s very unusual . I can’t remember that happening before. But we live in exceptional times .
    I thought so too. Somebody downthread raised (facetiously I suspect) the prospect that the Benn Act infringed the PM's human rights. That reminded me of a recent column in the Sunday Times by Dominic Lawson which IIRC that there is no precedent for parliament instructing a PM in the way the Benn Act does and that doing so is simply not the constitutional role of parliament. Might it be challenged in the courts on this basis?

    My apologies if this point has been covered previously on PB.
    Courts don't get to challenge Acts. That's what parliamentary sovereignty means.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Noo said:

    Trump's an absolute [insert language that gets you banned from PB]

    https://twitter.com/SenatorRomney/status/1182015168466882560

    Starting to serious reappraise Romney. He is standing up for proper American values and sentiments. At least some are in the GOP.
    Mitt Romney was the one in 2012 who correctly identified Russia as the most serious strategic threat to the United States. He was laughed at at the time, because most people thought he was harking back to a very out of date view of the world, but in fact he was noticing the change in tone from Putin, from being a bit of a pussycat to adopting a quite nasty attitude towards the west. It was around the time that Putin was seriously embracing fascism.

    Within four years, Putin had launched a hybrid war against Ukraine, attacked the democratic processes in USA and the UK, including hacking voting machines in all 50 US states in 2016, engaged in a terrifying campaign of civilian bombardment in Syria aimed at driving more refugees across the Mediterranean, and creating an RT- and Twitter-based propaganda machine designed to boost fascist parties in Europe, spread hatred of Muslims, destroy people's faith in democracy, destroy people's faith in media organisations, and destroy the concept of objective truth itself.

    As much as I despise the Republican party for its virulently anti-progress standpoint, Romney deserves praise for being ahead of the curve on spotting where Putin was going. Obama, whom I like, was caught with his pants down over Russia. Inexcusable failure on his part.
    :+1:
    Romney 2020 perhaps?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Trump is right to be bitter about WW2. Perhaps with a few more allies, his side could have won.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,488
    Oh, this is good, we don't believe No. 10's account of the Merkel call, but Trump's recollection of a conversation with Boris is faultless fact untainted by opinion.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Noo said:

    Trump is right to be bitter about WW2. Perhaps with a few more allies, his side could have won.
    Not sure Trump believes that war is really over. He's working on a new front in the USA.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    rpjs said:

    Noo said:

    Trump's an absolute [insert language that gets you banned from PB]

    https://twitter.com/SenatorRomney/status/1182015168466882560

    Starting to serious reappraise Romney. He is standing up for proper American values and sentiments. At least some are in the GOP.
    Mitt Romney was the one in 2012 who correctly identified Russia as the most serious strategic threat to the United States. He was laughed at at the time, because most people thought he was harking back to a very out of date view of the world, but in fact he was noticing the change in tone from Putin, from being a bit of a pussycat to adopting a quite nasty attitude towards the west. It was around the time that Putin was seriously embracing fascism.

    Within four years, Putin had launched a hybrid war against Ukraine, attacked the democratic processes in USA and the UK, including hacking voting machines in all 50 US states in 2016, engaged in a terrifying campaign of civilian bombardment in Syria aimed at driving more refugees across the Mediterranean, and creating an RT- and Twitter-based propaganda machine designed to boost fascist parties in Europe, spread hatred of Muslims, destroy people's faith in democracy, destroy people's faith in media organisations, and destroy the concept of objective truth itself.

    As much as I despise the Republican party for its virulently anti-progress standpoint, Romney deserves praise for being ahead of the curve on spotting where Putin was going. Obama, whom I like, was caught with his pants down over Russia. Inexcusable failure on his part.
    :+1:
    Romney 2020 perhaps?
    I'm on for beer money.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504

    Trump's an absolute [insert language that gets you banned from PB]

    https://twitter.com/SenatorRomney/status/1182015168466882560

    Scumbag.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    ydoethur said:

    Yes, that would create a difficulty. This is true of a lot of Labour held seats that might otherwise be attractive targets for the Remain Alliance, such as Bristol West, Norwich South, Cambridge, Leeds North-West, etc.

    Surely the most difficult question is what to do in Leave seats with Remain MPs, who really would be at risk in a Brexit dominated election. Caroline Flint springs to mind (if she stands again) or Mary Creagh.

    Do they cut a deal with them even though Labour is not a Remainer party? Can they even do so?
    The thread header talks about a deal in 70 seats. Across the UK there are 63 seats which voted Remain by >65% and a further 99 seats which voted Remain by >55%. Some of these 162 seats will be in Scotland or Northern Ireland, or already held by the Lib Dems, Plaid or Greens, but I would guess that the remainder will account for the 70 seats to be targeted by the Remain Alliance.

    So the other seats we can presume will essentially have [several] paper candidates [each] from the Remain Alliance.
    The deal has already been done in all the Welsh seats. That is 40 seats.

    There are 30 seats left for England & Scotland. Presumably this includes the seats with the current LibDem MPs.

    In almost all the Welsh seats, I just don't think this "Remain Alliance" will have much effect, except to depress the Plaid Cymru vote.

    Perhaps in Brecon & Radnorshire (though YDoethur argues to the contrary), perhaps in Montgomeryshire. All to the marginal benefit of the LibDems.

    Good luck to Plaid in winning votes in the Valleys.

    The plucky LibDems have left Plaid Cymru the job of knocking on the doors of the Brexit voting majority in these areas and telling them they’re as thick as two short planks and a bunch of racists and they can’t be trusted to vote the way 'the Remain Alliance' wanted them to.
    Are you sure? The article says only "key seats" and specifies "England and Wales", and that the dynamics are different in Scotland and Northern Ireland. It doesn't say that the deal will apply to all 40 seats in Wales. It could just be for half a dozen.
    In all the Welsh seats (except Ceredigion) there will be a Remain Alliance between Plaid Cymru/LibDems/Greens. That is 39 seats.

    I don't know where OGH got the figure "70+" from for England & Wales.
    It's from the linked Sky News article. Have you heard directly from Plaid Cymru, or do you have a different source?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Trump is right to be bitter about WW2. Perhaps with a few more allies, his side could have won.
    Not sure Trump believes that war is really over. He's working on a new front in the USA.
    Like a lost Japanese soldier* in the jungle, fighting on because he doesn't realise his side surrendered fifteen years ago.

    *with bone spurs
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504

    malcolmg said:

    nichomar said:

    Floater said:

    Bercow and Verhofstadt

    What to say

    So does ANYONE still think Bercow is a fit person for speaker?

    Yes me
    Great speaker
    and me
    And me.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Says in the article she’s going on maternity leave, not quitting...
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    ydoethur said:

    Yes, that would create a difficulty. This is true of a lot of Labour held seats that might otherwise be attractive targets for the Remain Alliance, such as Bristol West, Norwich South, Cambridge, Leeds North-West, etc.

    Surely the most difficult question is what to do in Leave seats with Remain MPs, who really would be at risk in a Brexit dominated election. Caroline Flint springs to mind (if she stands again) or Mary Creagh.

    Do they cut a deal with them even though Labour is not a Remainer party? Can they even do so?
    The thread header talks about a deal in 70 seats. Across the UK there are 63 seats which voted Remain by >65% and a further 99 seats which voted Remain by >55%. Some of these 162 seats will be in Scotland or Northern Ireland, or already held by the Lib Dems, Plaid or Greens, but I would guess that the remainder will account for the 70 seats to be targeted by the Remain Alliance.

    So the other seats we can presume will essentially have [several] paper candidates [each] from the Remain Alliance.
    The deal has already been done in all the Welsh seats. That is 40 seats.

    There are 30 seats left for England & Scotland. Presumably this includes the seats with the current LibDem MPs.

    In almost all the Welsh seats, I just don't think this "Remain Alliance" will have much effect, except to depress the Plaid Cymru vote.

    Perhaps in Brecon & Radnorshire (though YDoethur argues to the contrary), perhaps in Montgomeryshire. All to the marginal benefit of the LibDems.

    Good luck to Plaid in winning votes in the Valleys.

    The plucky LibDems have left Plaid Cymru the job of knocking on the doors of the Brexit voting majority in these areas and telling them they’re as thick as two short planks and a bunch of racists and they can’t be trusted to vote the way 'the Remain Alliance' wanted them to.
    Are you sure? The article says only "key seats" and specifies "England and Wales", and that the dynamics are different in Scotland and Northern Ireland. It doesn't say that the deal will apply to all 40 seats in Wales. It could just be for half a dozen.
    In all the Welsh seats (except Ceredigion) there will be a Remain Alliance between Plaid Cymru/LibDems/Greens. That is 39 seats.

    I don't know where OGH got the figure "70+" from for England & Wales.
    It's from the linked Sky News article. Have you heard directly from Plaid Cymru, or do you have a different source?
    I think I have seen which parties will fight each Welsh seat somewhere -- I will try and find a link.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    egg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The 1959 election is being broadcast live on BBC4 if anyone's interested.

    No spoilers please.

    My money would be on SuperMac increasing the Tory majority.
    I love watching people smoke on-screen. It makes me feel young again.
    The one that was an eye opener was I think the 1970 election repeat when Robin Day pretty much letched over Janet Fookes, he did have a thing for women with red hair.

    Christ I cringed so hard my feet shrank three sizes.
    Everyone will be slipping their shoes off, this is just jaw dropping.

    “Outside, in the Bentley, ten minutes. And bring your friend”

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xhHB0dOVOYs

    Christ that is awful. The past is another country, indeed. Loved the bit of description of her hair colour "for those watching in black and white," though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Trump also defended the woman who killed a motorcyclist in Northamptonshire, saying, "We've all done it."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-car-crash-us-diplomat-uk-a9149746.html
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,488
    Given the history of the new Government with parliament so far, not sure this is exactly a blow...
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    edited October 2019
    rpjs said:

    Noo said:

    Trump's an absolute [insert language that gets you banned from PB]

    https://twitter.com/SenatorRomney/status/1182015168466882560

    Starting to serious reappraise Romney. He is standing up for proper American values and sentiments. At least some are in the GOP.
    Mitt Romney was the one in 2012 who correctly identified Russia as the most serious strategic threat to the United States. He was laughed at at the time, because most people thought he was harking back to a very out of date view of the world, but in fact he was noticing the change in tone from Putin, from being a bit of a pussycat to adopting a quite nasty attitude towards the west. It was around the time that Putin was seriously embracing fascism.

    Within four years, Putin had launched a hybrid war against Ukraine, attacked the democratic processes in USA and the UK, including hacking voting machines in all 50 US states in 2016, engaged in a terrifying campaign of civilian bombardment in Syria aimed at driving more refugees across the Mediterranean, and creating an RT- and Twitter-based propaganda machine designed to boost fascist parties in Europe, spread hatred of Muslims, destroy people's faith in democracy, destroy people's faith in media organisations, and destroy the concept of objective truth itself.

    As much as I despise the Republican party for its virulently anti-progress standpoint, Romney deserves praise for being ahead of the curve on spotting where Putin was going. Obama, whom I like, was caught with his pants down over Russia. Inexcusable failure on his part.
    :+1:
    Romney 2020 perhaps?
    For those who like things a little mystical, Mitt Romney is supposed by some to be the subject of a Mormon prophecy about someone who saves the US when its constitution is hanging by a thread:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Horse_Prophecy

    Well, it is. And Mitt could* be the man to lead the Republicans in Senate to impeach that motherfker.

    *probably not
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Trump also defended the woman who killed a motorcyclist in Northamptonshire, saying, "We've all done it."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-car-crash-us-diplomat-uk-a9149746.html

    I have to say I'm struggling to recall the time I knocked down and killed a motorcyclist.
  • Trump also defended the woman who killed a motorcyclist in Northamptonshire, saying, "We've all done it."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-car-crash-us-diplomat-uk-a9149746.html

    So much for being our most important ally :(
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Says in the article she’s going on maternity leave, not quitting...
    Shall I? No, I shan't.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    I'm guessing Erdogan isn't doing Turkey's chances of joining the EU much good.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504
    Scott_P said:
    Tonight’s cunning plan.

    Tomorrow: Boris Johnson is going to hand deliver the letter to EU HQ while dressed as a mandarin duck, set fire to the building with vanilla vodka and cooks’ matches, and escape in a hot air ballon.
  • tlg86 said:

    I'm guessing Erdogan isn't doing Turkey's chances of joining the EU much good.

    EU talks have essentially been frozen since the crackdown against the alleged coup-plotters in 2016.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The 1959 election is being broadcast live on BBC4 if anyone's interested.

    Hugh Gaitskill says he accepts the will of the people (which makes a change) but dismisses Lord Hailshsm's argument the Labour defeat 'means the extinction of Socialism'.

    "Lord Hailsham is not an authority on socialism."
    He had this great knack of sounding authoritative even when he knew the square root of bugger all about the topic 😆
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504
    Roger said:

    Just watching a recording of the 'Tory Party at War'. Very funny particularly Alan Duncan. Speaks his mind! like 'Priti Patel the most useless and incompetent minister we've ever had'. Most of his predictions were right though Including that Patel would be in a Johnson Cabinet. What a bunch of shits the ERG were. How anyone voted for Johnson is just baffling. Surprisingly Farage is more likable than I'd imagined but in that company it's not too difficult

    Where can I find this show?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    tlg86 said:

    I'm guessing Erdogan isn't doing Turkey's chances of joining the EU much good.

    Turkey hasn't cared about that for years.
    TGOHF2 said:
    Doesn't that demand mean opposition parties better vote for one of those options before the Summit?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    Says in the article she’s going on maternity leave, not quitting...
    Whose the father!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    TGOHF2 said:
    Why does he need to. The EU will know he doesn't want to extend.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Scott_P said:
    Tonight’s cunning plan.

    Tomorrow: Boris Johnson is going to hand deliver the letter to EU HQ while dressed as a mandarin duck, set fire to the building with vanilla vodka and cooks’ matches, and escape in a hot air ballon.
    Sounds like a canard to me. Still, where there's smoke there's fire, and Boris is an absolut basket case, so it all fits.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    They are "seeking to obtain" an extension as Parliament wishes.

    But Boris is then perfectly entitled to send another letter saying he doesn't want or agree with it if he wishes

    We're getting to the point where Benn must be infringing Boris's human rights! :D
    I think that's right - Boris can send another letter but the EU will know they should rightly ignore it. It's clear which will be the official letter.
    The second letter doesn’t say he doesn’t want an extension. It says how he will use an extension
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The 1959 election is being broadcast live on BBC4 if anyone's interested.

    Hugh Gaitskill says he accepts the will of the people (which makes a change) but dismisses Lord Hailshsm's argument the Labour defeat 'means the extinction of Socialism'.

    "Lord Hailsham is not an authority on socialism."
    He had this great knack of sounding authoritative even when he knew the square root of bugger all about the topic 😆
    I know you are sensitive on the subject, but I was under the impression that was the whole point of an Eton education!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Charles said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    They are "seeking to obtain" an extension as Parliament wishes.

    But Boris is then perfectly entitled to send another letter saying he doesn't want or agree with it if he wishes

    We're getting to the point where Benn must be infringing Boris's human rights! :D
    I think that's right - Boris can send another letter but the EU will know they should rightly ignore it. It's clear which will be the official letter.
    The second letter doesn’t say he doesn’t want an extension. It says how he will use an extension
    It wont be up to him how he uses it, they know by the fact of the extension itself that he can be overruled by Parliament whenever it chooses.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    Dadge said:
    Are we getting an election?

    We may just have a change of PM without a GE, or the opposition may let BoZo twist in the wind until Feb or so.
  • Says in the article she’s going on maternity leave, not quitting...
    Bloody baby...couldnt it write a letter to the EU asking for an extension in the womb or something...

    I am sure the media are getting worse at reporting / spinning stuff.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Turkey was never going to join . This was a diplomatic game that was played . And several countries would have vetoed it anyway .

  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Dadge said:



    Well we're getting an election, so that's a yes then.

    What's the betting parliament tries to meet that condition with a referendum instead?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited October 2019
    Forget mrs rooney / vardy bust up, this is really the #1 story in the world. It has huge potential fallout.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    She quit in January too.

    Did she come back in between, or is this the same story reheated?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,504
    Andy_JS said:

    How dare anyone try to impersonate BritainElects or Opinium.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1181937892194705415

    A fake poll is no better or worse than a genuine one at this stage in the game. Generate some random numbers, take your pick.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,488
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    They are "seeking to obtain" an extension as Parliament wishes.

    But Boris is then perfectly entitled to send another letter saying he doesn't want or agree with it if he wishes

    We're getting to the point where Benn must be infringing Boris's human rights! :D
    I think that's right - Boris can send another letter but the EU will know they should rightly ignore it. It's clear which will be the official letter.
    The second letter doesn’t say he doesn’t want an extension. It says how he will use an extension
    It wont be up to him how he uses it, they know by the fact of the extension itself that he can be overruled by Parliament whenever it chooses.
    Unless he wants to pass any statutes, he can use the extension however he pleases.
  • Trump also defended the woman who killed a motorcyclist in Northamptonshire, saying, "We've all done it."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-car-crash-us-diplomat-uk-a9149746.html

    Fake news, I'm afraid, Billy. Trump is a moron but he was actually talking about driving on the wrong side of the road by accident in a foreign country. I watched that segment of the presser, and Trump was very fair to be honest.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Another attempt to dig up dirt on political opponents in exchange for a free trade deal/missile system?
    Nah - he’ll return the diplomats wife in exchange for “a number of things”

    Possibly including banning wind farms near a golf course
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    Trump also defended the woman who killed a motorcyclist in Northamptonshire, saying, "We've all done it."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-car-crash-us-diplomat-uk-a9149746.html

    For the record, most of us have only done it while wearing blackface.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    tlg86 said:

    Trump also defended the woman who killed a motorcyclist in Northamptonshire, saying, "We've all done it."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-car-crash-us-diplomat-uk-a9149746.html

    I have to say I'm struggling to recall the time I knocked down and killed a motorcyclist.
    Pissed, were you sir?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    tlg86 said:

    Trump also defended the woman who killed a motorcyclist in Northamptonshire, saying, "We've all done it."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-car-crash-us-diplomat-uk-a9149746.html

    I have to say I'm struggling to recall the time I knocked down and killed a motorcyclist.
    Ah, the old 'forgetfulness' defence. Let us know how that works out.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,488
    rcs1000 said:

    Trump also defended the woman who killed a motorcyclist in Northamptonshire, saying, "We've all done it."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-car-crash-us-diplomat-uk-a9149746.html

    For the record, most of us have only done it while wearing blackface.
    You only apply the black to your face? #amateurhour
  • So is this the EU / Bercow.stitch up, extension with 2nd referendum clause.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,605

    Andy_JS said:

    How dare anyone try to impersonate BritainElects or Opinium.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1181937892194705415

    A fake poll is no better or worse than a genuine one at this stage in the game. Generate some random numbers, take your pick.
    Rubbish. Genuine polls are very useful, (except for Corbyn supporters).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,488

    tlg86 said:

    I'm guessing Erdogan isn't doing Turkey's chances of joining the EU much good.

    EU talks have essentially been frozen since the crackdown against the alleged coup-plotters in 2016.
    Yet it's never taken off the table.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    What he’s saying is the Kurds are acting out of their own self interest not because they are strong allies of the US and therefore we do t owe them any favours

    That’s a plausible argument to make (even though he has made the wrong decision)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616

    So is this the EU / Bercow.stitch up, extension with 2nd referendum clause.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    (As 17.4m boycott the 2nd referendum......)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Maternity leave is not the same as quits
This discussion has been closed.