Strange how Labour's social media strategy is to say Cameron's this, Cameron's that when attacking any and all Coalition supposed failings?
One would suggest that's because Cameron is still a net positive asset to the Tories and hence this very clear co-ordinated effort to weaken his value to the blues? Including of course the oh so subtle efforts seen even on these hallowed threads.
"A daughter of Sri Lankan Tamil Uma Kumaran is contesting to be the Labour Party’s Member of Parliament for the London Borough of Harrow.
Kumaran was born in London and raised in Harrow, but says she comes from a strong and closely knit family from Sri Lanka.
“My parents fled to Britain in the midst of a civil war, Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn worked tirelessly to help them settle here. They have since worked hard to rebuild their lives and raise a family in Harrow,” the Labour candidate says on her official website."
Interesting that the main shift seems to be about 2% from Tory to LD, could this be a reaction to Cameron's suggestion of 'permanent austerity', when he had previously suggested austerity was only required until the public finances had been restored? Clegg cleverly then positioned himself between a Tory right ideologically committed to slashing public services and a Labour left committed to spending without limit. Indeed, I may make such a switch myself
Strange how Labour's social media strategy is to say Cameron's this, Cameron's that when attacking any and all Coalition supposed failings?
One would suggest that's because Cameron is still a net positive asset to the Tories and hence this very clear co-ordinated effort to weaken his value to the blues? Including of course the oh so subtle efforts seen even on these hallowed threads.
that or tim's right for once.
Maria Hutchings polled quite well among the remaining 25% of people who ended up voting Tory too.
Interesting that the main shift seems to be about 2% from Tory to LD, could this be a reaction to Cameron's suggestion of 'permanent austerity', when he had previously suggested austerity was only required until the public finances had been restored? Clegg cleverly then positioned himself between a Tory right ideologically committed to slashing public services and a Labour left committed to spending without limit. Indeed, I may make such a switch myself
Perhaps there are some green Tories who Cameron has annoyed by exposing his fake persona to be fake, or not fake, or double fake. You know what I mean.
One would suggest that's because Cameron is still a net positive asset to the Tories and hence this very clear co-ordinated effort to weaken his value to the blues? Including of course the oh so subtle efforts seen even on these hallowed threads.
Interesting that the main shift seems to be about 2% from Tory to LD, could this be a reaction to Cameron's suggestion of 'permanent austerity', when he had previously suggested austerity was only required until the public finances had been restored? Clegg cleverly then positioned himself between a Tory right ideologically committed to slashing public services and a Labour left committed to spending without limit. Indeed, I may make such a switch myself
No - I'd be surprised if even 1% of the public are even aware of Clegg's recent "positioning".
There's no sign of any LD upsurge across all pollsters.
The Lab lead is widening because people aren't (yet) feeling any better off and Miliband has caught a populist mood with his energy freeze.
Pretty obvious I think that the Government is going to have to do something popular in the Autumn Statement.
And they may be able to - without any changes the deficit may be on track to come in about £15bn under forecast.
Tim Indeed, Cameron is not only now losing Thatcherites and old colonels to UKIP by the dozen, but now it would seem 'one nation' moderate Tories who would seem to be his natural constituency are moving to the LDs. Indeed, even Matthew Parris, normally a loyalist, was warning Cameron today to listen to Major and not abandon the centre ground. If the right distrust Cameron and the centre now start to distrust Cameron, and the left of course have always loathed Cameron who does that leave him? Maybe a gay, Old Etonian investment banker in Notting Hill?
Surbiton (previous thread) Finland selects at 16, Sweden does not select, although it has free schools and a few private boarding schools attended by the likes of the Royal Family
Jacky Crawford selected for Labour in Brigg & Goole, the party's number 86 target where they require a swing of 6%, equivalent to a national lead of about 5%:
Tim Indeed, Cameron is not only now losing Thatcherites and old colonels to UKIP by the dozen, but now it would seem 'one nation' moderate Tories who would seem to be his natural constituency are moving to the LDs. Indeed, even Matthew Parris, normally a loyalist, was warning Cameron today to listen to Major and not abandon the centre ground. If the right distrust Cameron and the centre now start to distrust Cameron, and the left of course have always loathed Cameron who does that leave him? Maybe a gay, Old Etonian investment banker in Notting Hill?
Why would a left-wing Tory have any objection to Cameron ( other than his being to the left of them?)
Yet another polling company showing the Labour lead increasing.
I blame Falkirk!
PB Hodges keep up the good work.
I believe you may find a subsection in there that shows that more of the electorate thinks Cameron makes better cup cakes than Red Ed, so the headline figure is irrelevant.
Cameron is, it seems, leading the Tories to a quite astonishing defeat, given than he has engineered a decent recovery - having received an appalling legacy from Labour - and is facing one of the most inept, unappetising Oppositions on record.
I predict that if and when he leads the Tories to this defeat, having never achieved a majority, he will go down as one of the most reviled Tory leaders in history: on a par with Heath. Sure, he will be wheeled out as an elder statesman like Major is now, but Tories will loathe him as a Loser. Everyone else will ignore him.
He'll be famous for the nuclear power contract. Even by HMG standards that's an awful deal.
If this trend continues there is a possibility of Tory jumping ship to the Kippers.
It won't be Carswell though as he is too gutless
Carswell is not gutless. The reason he would not join UKIP is because he is so far apart from them on so many things. He has an extensive, well considered philosophy and many very good ideas of how to reform democracy and make it more accountable (of which leaving the EU is only a small part) and how to transform our society. Much of it is a long way from UKIP ideas.
SeanF Because this week Cameron called for 'permanent austerity' rather than his previous statements calling only to balance the budget. Hence the movement in this poll from the Tories to the LDs
Harrow East: Uma Kumaran (she beat Amina Ali, Helen Dennis and Ellie Southwood) Brigg & Goole: Jackie Crawford
5 Labour targets still have to select a PPC: Keighley (Nov 23), Kingswood (December 7 after the original PPC was forced to resign), Brent Central (Dec 7), Cleethorpes (also underway) and Bradford East.
I suppose it is socially liberal, pro europe people like me that are being lost to the libdems. I voted Tory in 2010, but will not next time. It is not Cameron that I dislike, he is rather innocuous, it is the swivel eyed loons in the wings that I would not want in power.
Tim Indeed, Cameron is not only now losing Thatcherites and old colonels to UKIP by the dozen, but now it would seem 'one nation' moderate Tories who would seem to be his natural constituency are moving to the LDs. Indeed, even Matthew Parris, normally a loyalist, was warning Cameron today to listen to Major and not abandon the centre ground. If the right distrust Cameron and the centre now start to distrust Cameron, and the left of course have always loathed Cameron who does that leave him? Maybe a gay, Old Etonian investment banker in Notting Hill?
Why would a left-wing Tory have any objection to Cameron ( other than his being to the left of them?)
SeanT But even Heath and Major won an election with an overall majority, Cameron could not even do that. Heath and Major also spent some time in the real world and did not have anything like Cameron's privileged background. It is still not impossible he can scrape home, after all Ed M and Balls are about as unappealing an opposition as you can get, but I would say the best Cameron can now hope for is a majority of about 4 (and that is if everything goes right for him from now on)
If this trend continues there is a possibility of Tory jumping ship to the Kippers.
It won't be Carswell though as he is too gutless
Carswell is not gutless. The reason he would not join UKIP is because he is so far apart from them on so many things. He has an extensive, well considered philosophy and many very good ideas of how to reform democracy and make it more accountable (of which leaving the EU is only a small part) and how to transform our society. Much of it is a long way from UKIP ideas.
That remark barely registered on here. It would not have shifted votes in the real world.
If there is a Labour recovery and a Tory drop then it is about Labour singing from yhe same hymnnsheet, and the Tories not. It has little to do with the particular hymn.
SeanF Because this week Cameron called for 'permanent austerity' rather than his previous statements calling only to balance the budget. Hence the movement in this poll from the Tories to the LDs
I suppose it is socially liberal, pro europe people like me that are being lost to the libdems. I voted Tory in 2010, but will not next time. It is not Cameron that I dislike, he is rather innocuous, it is the swivel eyed loons in the wings that I would not want in power.
But Pro-EU is such an endangered species these days I am not sure your abdication will make any real difference to the result. Certainly it is tiny compared to the loss to UKIP
If this trend continues there is a possibility of Tory jumping ship to the Kippers.
It won't be Carswell though as he is too gutless
Carswell is not gutless. The reason he would not join UKIP is because he is so far apart from them on so many things. He has an extensive, well considered philosophy and many very good ideas of how to reform democracy and make it more accountable (of which leaving the EU is only a small part) and how to transform our society. Much of it is a long way from UKIP ideas.
SeanT But even Heath and Major won an election with an overall majority, Cameron could not even do that. Heath and Major also spent some time in the real world and did not have anything like Cameron's privileged background. It is still not impossible he can scrape home, after all Ed M and Balls are about as unappealing an opposition as you can get, but I would say the best Cameron can now hope for is a majority of about 4 (and that is if everything goes right for him from now on)
HYUFD - In all seriousness I cannot see where Cameron can go. The only way I can see this going his way is a serious Labour implosion which just wont happen. If it is anything to do with Miliband they will just withdraw him from view. So he is left with two options. Move to the right and try and return some of their UKIP vote which will harden the Lib Dem switchers to Labour and the Lib Dems themselves and may turn off the Labour switchers who have gone to UKIP. Move to the centre and he strengthens the UKIP vote. The economy is not helping him as only a small proportion are seeing the benefits, and even this is causing him problems as the focus groups say people believe this is being manufactured on purpose to help a certain section of society. He is in between a rock and a hard place.....not that I am complaining.
I don't claim to speak for the majority, mine is a minority view. In a close fought election squeezing the LibDem vote in Midland marginals may well matter more than converting an enormous Tory majority to a smaller majority in some South East seat where UKIP becomes the second party.
I suppose it is socially liberal, pro europe people like me that are being lost to the libdems. I voted Tory in 2010, but will not next time. It is not Cameron that I dislike, he is rather innocuous, it is the swivel eyed loons in the wings that I would not want in power.
But Pro-EU is such an endangered species these days I am not sure your abdication will make any real difference to the result. Certainly it is tiny compared to the loss to UKIP
FoxInSox It certainly would have registered more than scepticism about the EU. In middle of the road Middle England they see the need to solve the deficit, that does not mean they want endless library closures, cuts to social care and the police and armed forces. The only movement in this poll is Tory to LD (note not Labour or UKIP) this week, there is no other explanation
I don't claim to speak for the majority, mine is a minority view. In a close fought election squeezing the LibDem vote in Midland marginals may well matter more than converting an enormous Tory majority to a smaller majority in some South East seat where UKIP becomes the second party.
Elections are won in the middle ground.
No they are not. This is the myth the main parties keep pushing and is one of the main reasons Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010. The middle ground is far too crowded and the number of voters available there far too few. Look to the 30-40% of the electorate who don't vote or who are voting for minor parties and find out what they have to say if you want to win the next election.
I see hysteria is breaking out on here again tonight.
Cameron has been party leader for 8 years. Now for much of that time the Conservatives have done well in the polls and for some of it they have done poorly.
But Cameron has been posh throughout. So Cameron being posh is not the reason the Conservatives have been doing poorly in the last 4 to 6 weeks. The reason is Miliband's energy freeze.
Several Conservative supporters are just falling into tim's trap. tim knows that Labour's best chance is for Cameron to be removed and for there to be a massive row and upheaval in the Conservative party.
So tim posts 10,000 times that's it's all about Cameron being posh - just like parents telling a kid something 10,000 times - if it's said enough times some people actually start to believe it.
Solving the deficit and getting back to a tolerable debt will require long term austerity. My dept an hospital is sufferring from austerity; I am not speaking from some Surry pile.
More likely the decision to close Portsmouth Shipyard to pander to Scottish voters would have annoyed English voters without any discernible electoral advantage in Scotland.
FoxInSox It certainly would have registered more than scepticism about the EU. In middle of the road Middle England they see the need to solve the deficit, that does not mean they want endless library closures, cuts to social care and the police and armed forces
SeanF Because this week Cameron called for 'permanent austerity' rather than his previous statements calling only to balance the budget. Hence the movement in this poll from the Tories to the LDs
Obviously, I think the Conservatives erred in choosing Cameron, but wasn't that a statement of obvious from him? The days of lavish public spending aren't coming back
I don't claim to speak for the majority, mine is a minority view. In a close fought election squeezing the LibDem vote in Midland marginals may well matter more than converting an enormous Tory majority to a smaller majority in some South East seat where UKIP becomes the second party.
I suppose it is socially liberal, pro europe people like me that are being lost to the libdems. I voted Tory in 2010, but will not next time. It is not Cameron that I dislike, he is rather innocuous, it is the swivel eyed loons in the wings that I would not want in power.
But Pro-EU is such an endangered species these days I am not sure your abdication will make any real difference to the result. Certainly it is tiny compared to the loss to UKIP
If this trend continues there is a possibility of Tory jumping ship to the Kippers.
It won't be Carswell though as he is too gutless
Carswell is not gutless. The reason he would not join UKIP is because he is so far apart from them on so many things. He has an extensive, well considered philosophy and many very good ideas of how to reform democracy and make it more accountable (of which leaving the EU is only a small part) and how to transform our society. Much of it is a long way from UKIP ideas.
Both major parties have departed the middle ground, and with the LDs tainted it leaves a lot of unsettled voters.
Blair won from the centre, Major won from the centre, even Mrs T won her first election with a centrist platform.
The way of UKIP is the mirror of Foot in 1983; the way to put the other party in power for a generation. Follow it if you think that is the acceptable price of removing Cameron.
I don't claim to speak for the majority, mine is a minority view. In a close fought election squeezing the LibDem vote in Midland marginals may well matter more than converting an enormous Tory majority to a smaller majority in some South East seat where UKIP becomes the second party.
Elections are won in the middle ground.
No they are not. This is the myth the main parties keep pushing and is one of the main reasons Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010. The middle ground is far too crowded and the number of voters available there far too few. Look to the 30-40% of the electorate who don't vote or who are voting for minor parties and find out what they have to say if you want to win the next election.
Cameron is, it seems, leading the Tories to a quite astonishing defeat, given than he has engineered a decent recovery - having received an appalling legacy from Labour - and is facing one of the most inept, unappetising Oppositions on record.
I
In an era of increasing and evermore obvious social immobility the Tories, more than any other party, HAVE to show they are open to all - but at the moment they are led by poshos. This is the core of their problem.
I wouldn't have mattered as much if he hadn't insisted on surrounding himself with similarly chinless twits, I mean Osborne and Hunt are the other faces of the Tories at the moment, what's all that about?
The strange thing is that Cameron is quite good as prime minister, when it comes to high politics - in the Bismarckian, statesmanlike sense. He did his best in Libya (much better than Blair in Iraq), he has fended off euro-horrors, he plays the PM on the world stage OK.
And Osborne is a decent Chancellor: who has - whatever you might claim - given the UK the best growth in the G7, as of now, and kept unemployment stable (it's now falling quickly). He steered the Treasury quite well when it was facing total wreckage just three years ago, thanks to Labour.
The trouble is both of them are utterly terrible at day-to-day ruthless ordinary politics (this is where Miliband thrives) and both of them are, by nature, ludicrously posh and detached, so posh and detached they are unable to see how posh and detached they appear to everyone else, and thus they blunder, continuously, on things like the pasty tax, or get horribly outflanked on energy prices.
NO MORE F*CKING ETONIANS.
The Tories REALLY need to learn this lesson. Their last successful posh male prime minister was Macmillan, HALF A CENTURY AGO, back when we had a bloody Empire, and even he wasn't that successful.
Both major parties have departed the middle ground, and with the LDs tainted it leaves a lot of unsettled voters.
Blair won from the centre, Major won from the centre, even Mrs T won her first election with a centrist platform.
The way of UKIP is the mirror of Foot in 1983; the way to put the other party in power for a generation. Follow it if you think that is the acceptable price of removing Cameron.
I don't claim to speak for the majority, mine is a minority view. In a close fought election squeezing the LibDem vote in Midland marginals may well matter more than converting an enormous Tory majority to a smaller majority in some South East seat where UKIP becomes the second party.
Elections are won in the middle ground.
No they are not. This is the myth the main parties keep pushing and is one of the main reasons Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010. The middle ground is far too crowded and the number of voters available there far too few. Look to the 30-40% of the electorate who don't vote or who are voting for minor parties and find out what they have to say if you want to win the next election.
But your definition of 'middle ground' is now a minority extremist position.
Both the LibDems and Labour favour staying in the EU. It is also the policy of the Greens, SNP and even the Conservative party. It is not an extreme minority opinion.
I don't claim to speak for the majority, mine is a minority view. In a close fought election squeezing the LibDem vote in Midland marginals may well matter more than converting an enormous Tory majority to a smaller majority in some South East seat where UKIP becomes the second party.
I suppose it is socially liberal, pro europe people like me that are being lost to the libdems. I voted Tory in 2010, but will not next time. It is not Cameron that I dislike, he is rather innocuous, it is the swivel eyed loons in the wings that I would not want in power.
But Pro-EU is such an endangered species these days I am not sure your abdication will make any real difference to the result. Certainly it is tiny compared to the loss to UKIP
I wouldn't have mattered as much if he hadn't insisted on surrounding himself with similarly chinless twits, I mean Osborne and Hunt are the other faces of the Tories at the moment, what's all that about?
The strange thing is that Cameron is quite good as prime minister, when it comes to high politics - in the Bismarckian, statesmanlike sense. He did his best in Libya (much better than Blair in Iraq), he has fended off euro-horrors, he plays the PM on the world stage OK.
And Osborne is a decent Chancellor: who has - whatever you might claim - given the UK the best growth in the G7, as of now, and kept unemployment stable (it's now falling quickly). He steered the Treasury quite well when it was facing total wreckage just three years ago, thanks to Labour.
The trouble is both of them are utterly terrible at day-to-day ruthless ordinary politics (this is where Miliband thrives) and both of them are, by nature, ludicrously posh and detached, so posh and detached they are unable to see how posh and detached they appear to everyone else, and thus they blunder, continuously, on things like the pasty tax, or get horribly outflanked on energy prices.
NO MORE F*CKING ETONIANS.
The Tories REALLY need to learn this lesson. Their last successful posh male prime minister was Macmillan, HALF A CENTURY AGO, back when we had a bloody Empire, and even he wasn't that successful.
NO. MORE. PUBLIC. SCHOOLBOYS.
End.
David Davis would have been far better.
I can't think of many questions where "David Davis would have been far better" is a valid answer. ;-)
Not that I'm particularly against Davis: I agree with some of what he says, although not always the way he says it. I just think he would have been a poor leader. How he'd have compared to Cameron as party leader is an interesting debate, and similar to the Ed versus David one for Labour, but without the familial resonances.
SeanF No it is a change, before the election he said the deficit would be solved by 2015, in 2011 he said the cuts were difficult, but necessary but not for ever
Secondly she'll win the most attractive MP contest by a distance
Not if the Conservative PPC for Harrow West wins.
She would also be the first Tamil to be elected, and the first Hindu woman in Parliament. She might also be the youngest MP - her age doesn't seem to be available at the moment.
Cameron is, it seems, leading the Tories to a quite astonishing defeat, given than he has engineered a decent recovery - having received an appalling legacy from Labour - and is facing one of the most inept, unappetising Oppositions on record.
I
In an era of increasing and evermore obvious social immobility the Tories, more than any other party, HAVE to show they are open to all - but at the moment they are led by poshos. This is the core of their problem.
I wouldn't have mattered as much if he hadn't insisted on surrounding himself with similarly chinless twits, I mean Osborne and Hunt are the other faces of the Tories at the moment, what's all that about?
The strange thing is that Cameron is quite good as prime minister, when it comes to high politics - in the Bismarckian, statesmanlike sense. He did his best in Libya (much better than Blair in Iraq), he has fended off euro-horrors, he plays the PM on the world stage OK.
And Osborne is a decent Chancellor: who has - whatever you might claim - given the UK the best growth in the G7, as of now, and kept unemployment stable (it's now falling quickly). He steered the Treasury quite well when it was facing total wreckage just three years ago, thanks to Labour.
The trouble is both of them are utterly terrible at day-to-day ruthless ordinary politics (this is where Miliband thrives) and both of them are, by nature, ludicrously posh and detached, so posh and detached they are unable to see how posh and detached they appear to everyone else, and thus they blunder, continuously, on things like the pasty tax, or get horribly outflanked on energy prices.
NO MORE F*CKING ETONIANS.
The Tories REALLY need to learn this lesson. Their last successful posh male prime minister was Macmillan, HALF A CENTURY AGO, back when we had a bloody Empire, and even he wasn't that successful.
NO. MORE. PUBLIC. SCHOOLBOYS.
End.
David Davis would have been far better.
I think with every day that passes more and more people are now realising that. Imagine how Tim would be struggling trying to find a meme to attack the Tories if they were led by a grandson of a prominent communist who grew up on a council estate in a single parent family.
It resonated heavily with those in the Armed Forces in general, and the Navy in particar. These people and their families are a fairly substantal block. UKIP is pro armed forces and will have picked up the majority of those disgruntled.
"Permenant Austerity" did not register, whatever its merits.
Both major parties have departed the middle ground, and with the LDs tainted it leaves a lot of unsettled voters.
Blair won from the centre, Major won from the centre, even Mrs T won her first election with a centrist platform.
Maybe the centre ground now is different - and increasingly so - from the centre ground during the biggest credit bubble in history (1998-2008) - hence the moderniser/cameroon problem. The Tories adapted to the illusionary credit bubble economy just before it all blew up.
Fox Rubbish. Permanent austerity resonated with anyone who uses a library, has elderly relatives in social care, uses or is a legal aid lawyer, works as a teacher or a nurse, or a policeman or indeed in the armed forces which has also been cut. The dock announcement anyway was made on 6th Nov anyway, 10 days ago, the austerity announcement last week ie in the range of this poll
People kidding themselves as ever - Conservatives thinking Davis would have done better than Cameron is no different to Labour voters thinking how brilliant Michael Foot would have been.
No, Davis would not have won a majority.
But if, somehow, he had become PM he wouldn't have legalised Gay Marriage - which is, I suspect, of much more concern to many of those Davis supporters.
Completely OT but there is a great advert being shown at the moment trying to get people to think about lung cancer symptoms. If you haven't seen it it has Alex Ferguson finishing up with asking 'who wouldn't want a bit of extra time'.
Not been a great fan of Ferguson in the past but kudos to him for doing the advert and putting in a bit of self ribbing which is bound to help get the advert talked about more widely.
"Cameron has been really good at everything, but he is posh he can't win..
Much better to have a non-posho, even if he was total crap."
Let's climb into the wayback machine, and see what happened when Labour gave the crown to someone with a 'good' back story. Gordon Brown, the worst PM in living memory, and possibly of all time.
Both the LibDems and Labour favour staying in the EU. It is also the policy of the Greens, SNP and even the Conservative party. It is not an extreme minority opinion.
I don't claim to speak for the majority, mine is a minority view. In a close fought election squeezing the LibDem vote in Midland marginals may well matter more than converting an enormous Tory majority to a smaller majority in some South East seat where UKIP becomes the second party.
I suppose it is socially liberal, pro europe people like me that are being lost to the libdems. I voted Tory in 2010, but will not next time. It is not Cameron that I dislike, he is rather innocuous, it is the swivel eyed loons in the wings that I would not want in power.
But Pro-EU is such an endangered species these days I am not sure your abdication will make any real difference to the result. Certainly it is tiny compared to the loss to UKIP
Pro-europeanism isn't the middle ground
The middle ground position of VOTERS is, at best, resigned euro pragmatism, or euro apathy. A very large minority would be outright eurosceptic. Only a tiny minority of pitiful liberal spunk stains would eagerly admit to being 'pro European', maybe 3% of the electorate.
General Elections are not won by Persuading the pitiful three percenters.
Both major parties have departed the middle ground, and with the LDs tainted it leaves a lot of unsettled voters.
Blair won from the centre, Major won from the centre, even Mrs T won her first election with a centrist platform.
Blair deserted the left (Clause IV) and lost 4 million votes in 8 years. Major deserted the right and lost 5 million votes in 5 years. Thatcher occupied the centre ground from the right and maintained her voter base and gave Major the largest voter legacy in UK political history.
You can't win elections by making the centre ground your heartland and if you try to you will turn it into the no man's land wasteland between the two sides of the 'war' (just ask the Libdems). The way to do it is how Thatcher did it which is to occupy the centre ground whilst remaining firmly rooted in your traditional heartlands.
Cameron has deserted the right in far more ways than Major did (and is politically inept to boot). How many votes will he lose?
"Cameron has been really good at everything, but he is posh he can't win..
Much better to have a non-posho, even if he was total crap."
Let's climb into the wayback machine, and see what happened when Labour gave the crown to someone with a 'good' back story. Gordon Brown, the worst PM in living memory, and possibly of all time.
Ridiculous stuff Scott - there is no possibly about it. Brown was hyped to the max and was simply dreadful - borderline unfit for office - quite possibly not sane.
Fox Rubbish. Permanent austerity resonated with anyone who uses a library, has elderly relatives in social care, uses or is a legal aid lawyer, works as a teacher or a nurse, or a policeman or indeed in the armed forces which has also been cut. The dock announcement anyway was made on 6th Nov anyway, 10 days ago, the austerity announcement last week ie in the range of this poll
The problem is that austerity is likely to be permanent. We aren't going to see living standards doubling every 30 years any time soon, for all the reasons given on David Herdson's thread.
Ridiculous stuff Scott - there is no possibly about it. Brown was hyped to the max and was simply dreadful - borderline unfit for office - quite possibly not sane.
Just a gentle reminder of that to the 'David "resigned for no good reason" Davis would have been brilliant' brigade...
People kidding themselves as ever - Conservatives thinking Davis would have done better than Cameron is no different to Labour voters thinking how brilliant Michael Foot would have been.
No, Davis would not have won a majority.
But if, somehow, he had become PM he wouldn't have legalised Gay Marriage - which is, I suspect, of much more concern to many of those Davis supporters.
He would have done better among C1/C2 voters than Cameron does.
Cameron is, it seems, leading the Tories to a quite astonishing defeat, given than he has engineered a decent recovery - having received an appalling legacy from Labour - and is facing one of the most inept, unappetising Oppositions on record.
I
In an era of increasing and evermore obvious social immobility the Tories, more than any other party, HAVE to show they are open to all - but at the moment they are led by poshos. This is the core of their problem.
I wouldn't have mattered as much if he hadn't insisted on surrounding himself with similarly chinless twits, I mean Osborne and Hunt are the other faces of the Tories at the moment, what's all that about?
The strange thing is that Cameron is quite good as prime minister, when it comes to high politics - in the Bismarckian, statesmanlike sense. He did his best in Libya (much better than Blair in Iraq), he has fended off euro-horrors, he plays the PM on the world stage OK.
End.
He seems to be making an epic twit of himself in Sri Lanka, losing a fight that no one asked him to start or is interested in. Syria redux.
Both major parties have departed the middle ground, and with the LDs tainted it leaves a lot of unsettled voters.
Blair won from the centre, Major won from the centre, even Mrs T won her first election with a centrist platform.
Blair deserted the left (Clause IV) and lost 4 million votes in 8 years. Major deserted the right and lost 5 million votes in 5 years. Thatcher occupied the centre ground from the right and maintained her voter base and gave Major the largest voter legacy in UK political history.
You can't win elections by making the centre ground your heartland and if you try to you will turn it into the no man's land wasteland between the two sides of the 'war' (just ask the Libdems). The way to do it is how Thatcher did it which is to occupy the centre ground whilst remaining firmly rooted in your traditional heartlands.
Cameron has deserted the right in far more ways than Major did (and is politically inept to boot). How many votes will he lose?
Cameron is, it seems, leading the Tories to a quite astonishing defeat, given than he has engineered a decent recovery - having received an appalling legacy from Labour - and is facing one of the most inept, unappetising Oppositions on record.
I
In an era of increasing and evermore obvious social immobility the Tories, more than any other party, HAVE to show they are open to all - but at the moment they are led by poshos. This is the core of their problem.
I wouldn't have mattered as much if he hadn't insisted on surrounding himself with similarly chinless twits, I mean Osborne and Hunt are the other faces of the Tories at the moment, what's all that about?
The strange thing is that Cameron is quite good as prime minister, when it comes to high politics - in the Bismarckian, statesmanlike sense. He did his best in Libya (much better than Blair in Iraq), he has fended off euro-horrors, he plays the PM on the world stage OK.
End.
He seems to be making an epic twat of himself in Sri Lanka, losing a fight that no one asked him to start or is interested in. Syria redux.
You asked any Sri Lankans ? Or is that just the view from behind your latte in the west ?
Fox yes, but that does not mean public services have to be slashed to the bone either, Clegg hit the right note, no more bottomless Labour public spending, but no Tory slashing for slashing's sake either, hence the LD rise in the polls and the Tory fall. Anyway, off to see Gravity
If I were Labour I would be relieved to see the lead increasing. I would also be very worried that the increase of the lead in these polls is created by Labour adding 0 percent to the VI number. Those are soft increases not hard commitment to Labour.
It goes without saying Tory party shouldn't celebrate a dip, but a dip, as government is better than no increase for the opposition.
Just a gentle reminder of that to the 'David "resigned for no good reason" Davis would have been brilliant' brigade...
By his resignation, the Conservatives were forced to continue to oppose the authoritarian madness of detention without trial for 48 days which Brown was hell bent on introducing for political reasons. It is perfectly plausible, and indeed perhaps likely that the spineless Cameron would have otherwise caved in.
I cannot see that we are going to agree on this. It usually takes a week or two for news to filter through to polling trends.
And anyone who thinks that there is a realistic alternative to permenant austerity is deluded enough to want to follow the Hollande path. Cameron was being honest, and like I said, it hardly registered in the news, while the shipyard closure did. There are a lot of forces and ex-forces people in the Tory inclined bloc, and they would not be happy.
As far as Davis goes, he had so little charisma and support that Tory members and MPs jumped on the most plausible alternative, even though Cameron was an unknown at the time. Ken Clarke was another candidate at that contest, and he would have nailed Brown in 2010.
Fox Rubbish. Permanent austerity resonated with anyone who uses a library, has elderly relatives in social care, uses or is a legal aid lawyer, works as a teacher or a nurse, or a policeman or indeed in the armed forces which has also been cut. The dock announcement anyway was made on 6th Nov anyway, 10 days ago, the austerity announcement last week ie in the range of this poll
Cameron is, it seems, leading the Tories to a quite astonishing defeat, given than he has engineered a decent recovery - having received an appalling legacy from Labour - and is facing one of the most inept, unappetising Oppositions on record.
I
In an era of increasing and evermore obvious social immobility the Tories, more than any other party, HAVE to show they are open to all - but at the moment they are led by poshos. This is the core of their problem.
I wouldn't have mattered as much if he hadn't insisted on surrounding himself with similarly chinless twits, I mean Osborne and Hunt are the other faces of the Tories at the moment, what's all that about?
The strange thing is that Cameron is quite good as prime minister, when it comes to high politics - in the Bismarckian, statesmanlike sense. He did his best in Libya (much better than Blair in Iraq), he has fended off euro-horrors, he plays the PM on the world stage OK.
End.
He seems to be making an epic twit of himself in Sri Lanka, losing a fight that no one asked him to start or is interested in. Syria redux.
To be fair, there is evidence that the Sri Lankan government carried out atrocities.
So you agree that Euroscepticism is a minority position? And that what you call europragmatism is well supported?
The swivel eyed loons may dominate the Telegraph comments but that is not equivalent to the electorate.
As an Orange book LD I suspect that I am in a small minority, possibly 5%; but being in a minority is not the same as being wrong.
UKIP are the polar opposite of Militant 30 years ago. History repeats itself first as tragedy and then as farce.
UKIP will put Miliband and Balls in Downing st, as surely as Militant kept Mrs T in power in 83 and 87.
Euroscepticism is in no way a minority position. Indeed the only reason that there is not a large majority for complete withdrawal right now is because plenty of people still believe that it is possible to return powers from the EU in any meaningful way. The numbers who actually want to stay in under the current arrangements are pitifully small.
"Cameron has been really good at everything, but he is posh he can't win..
Much better to have a non-posho, even if he was total crap."
Let's climb into the wayback machine, and see what happened when Labour gave the crown to someone with a 'good' back story. Gordon Brown, the worst PM in living memory, and possibly of all time.
Ridiculous stuff Scott - there is no possibly about it. Brown was hyped to the max and was simply dreadful - borderline unfit for office - quite possibly not sane.
Borderline, BORDERLINE????????
Totally unfit and those craven muppets knew it and still elected him unopposed.
Comments
Ed impeachment impending.
One would suggest that's because Cameron is still a net positive asset to the Tories and hence this very clear co-ordinated effort to weaken his value to the blues? Including of course the oh so subtle efforts seen even on these hallowed threads.
that or tim's right for once.
Report from a few weeks ago:
Http://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/a-daughter-of-sri-lankan-tamil-to-contest-for-labour-party-in-harrow-east/
"A daughter of Sri Lankan Tamil Uma Kumaran is contesting to be the Labour Party’s Member of Parliament for the London Borough of Harrow.
Kumaran was born in London and raised in Harrow, but says she comes from a strong and closely knit family from Sri Lanka.
“My parents fled to Britain in the midst of a civil war, Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn worked tirelessly to help them settle here. They have since worked hard to rebuild their lives and raise a family in Harrow,” the Labour candidate says on her official website."
One would suggest that's because Cameron is still a net positive asset to the Tories and hence this very clear co-ordinated effort to weaken his value to the blues? Including of course the oh so subtle efforts seen even on these hallowed threads.
There's no sign of any LD upsurge across all pollsters.
The Lab lead is widening because people aren't (yet) feeling any better off and Miliband has caught a populist mood with his energy freeze.
Pretty obvious I think that the Government is going to have to do something popular in the Autumn Statement.
And they may be able to - without any changes the deficit may be on track to come in about £15bn under forecast.
"http://www.theguardian.com/politics/cartoon/2013/nov/16/martin-rowson-comment-cartoon"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yzrjcvrlZs
It won't be Carswell though as he is too gutless
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24972028
Said to be in serious pain!
I blame Falkirk!
PB Hodges keep up the good work.
I believe you may find a subsection in there that shows that more of the electorate thinks Cameron makes better cup cakes than Red Ed, so the headline figure is irrelevant.
Tic Toc Tic Toc!
Indeed they are more vociferous in their desire to keep the Roma out than any Briton that I have met!
Mark Tyrrell UKIP @MarkTyrrellUKIP
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan: “There is no country named Cyprus”
< Cameron wants Turkey in EU http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2013/11/12/turkish-pm-erdogan-there-is-no-country-named-cyprus/ …
Harrow East: Uma Kumaran (she beat Amina Ali, Helen Dennis and Ellie Southwood)
Brigg & Goole: Jackie Crawford
5 Labour targets still have to select a PPC: Keighley (Nov 23), Kingswood (December 7 after the original PPC was forced to resign), Brent Central (Dec 7), Cleethorpes (also underway) and Bradford East.
If there is a Labour recovery and a Tory drop then it is about Labour singing from yhe same hymnnsheet, and the Tories not. It has little to do with the particular hymn.
Elections are won in the middle ground.
Cameron has been party leader for 8 years. Now for much of that time the Conservatives have done well in the polls and for some of it they have done poorly.
But Cameron has been posh throughout. So Cameron being posh is not the reason the Conservatives have been doing poorly in the last 4 to 6 weeks. The reason is Miliband's energy freeze.
Several Conservative supporters are just falling into tim's trap. tim knows that Labour's best chance is for Cameron to be removed and for there to be a massive row and upheaval in the Conservative party.
So tim posts 10,000 times that's it's all about Cameron being posh - just like parents telling a kid something 10,000 times - if it's said enough times some people actually start to believe it.
More likely the decision to close Portsmouth Shipyard to pander to Scottish voters would have annoyed English voters without any discernible electoral advantage in Scotland.
Pro-europeanism isn't the middle ground
Not good for CON
Blair won from the centre, Major won from the centre, even Mrs T won her first election with a centrist platform.
The way of UKIP is the mirror of Foot in 1983; the way to put the other party in power for a generation. Follow it if you think that is the acceptable price of removing Cameron.
Not that I'm particularly against Davis: I agree with some of what he says, although not always the way he says it. I just think he would have been a poor leader. How he'd have compared to Cameron as party leader is an interesting debate, and similar to the Ed versus David one for Labour, but without the familial resonances.
1) "Stay in" will undoubtedly win the referendum and then, more importantly:
2) Having voted to "Stay in" it will be much EASIER to integrate us more deeply into the EU without much resistance.
Idiots. People are unbelievably stupid.
"Permenant Austerity" did not register, whatever its merits.
Edit: it's actually 46%.
Some potential problems with the first Sony Playstation 4's sold, particularly with the HDMI port:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/15/playstation_4_on_sale_complaints/
Hardly unexpected, and we can expect similar from XBox One's release next week, especially with Microsoft's travails on the 360.
Also unexpectedly, the media will play heavily on any problems, perhaps spinning them out of proportion.
The curse of the (very) early adopter...
No, Davis would not have won a majority.
But if, somehow, he had become PM he wouldn't have legalised Gay Marriage - which is, I suspect, of much more concern to many of those Davis supporters.
The public hate everyone.
Not been a great fan of Ferguson in the past but kudos to him for doing the advert and putting in a bit of self ribbing which is bound to help get the advert talked about more widely.
"Cameron has been really good at everything, but he is posh he can't win..
Much better to have a non-posho, even if he was total crap."
Let's climb into the wayback machine, and see what happened when Labour gave the crown to someone with a 'good' back story. Gordon Brown, the worst PM in living memory, and possibly of all time.
The swivel eyed loons may dominate the Telegraph comments but that is not equivalent to the electorate.
As an Orange book LD I suspect that I am in a small minority, possibly 5%; but being in a minority is not the same as being wrong.
UKIP are the polar opposite of Militant 30 years ago. History repeats itself first as tragedy and then as farce.
UKIP will put Miliband and Balls in Downing st, as surely as Militant kept Mrs T in power in 83 and 87.
Both major parties have departed the middle ground, and with the LDs tainted it leaves a lot of unsettled voters.
Blair won from the centre, Major won from the centre, even Mrs T won her first election with a centrist platform.
Blair deserted the left (Clause IV) and lost 4 million votes in 8 years. Major deserted the right and lost 5 million votes in 5 years. Thatcher occupied the centre ground from the right and maintained her voter base and gave Major the largest voter legacy in UK political history.
You can't win elections by making the centre ground your heartland and if you try to you will turn it into the no man's land wasteland between the two sides of the 'war' (just ask the Libdems). The way to do it is how Thatcher did it which is to occupy the centre ground whilst remaining firmly rooted in your traditional heartlands.
Cameron has deserted the right in far more ways than Major did (and is politically inept to boot). How many votes will he lose?
It goes without saying Tory party shouldn't celebrate a dip, but a dip, as government is better than no increase for the opposition.
And anyone who thinks that there is a realistic alternative to permenant austerity is deluded enough to want to follow the Hollande path. Cameron was being honest, and like I said, it hardly registered in the news, while the shipyard closure did. There are a lot of forces and ex-forces people in the Tory inclined bloc, and they would not be happy.
As far as Davis goes, he had so little charisma and support that Tory members and MPs jumped on the most plausible alternative, even though Cameron was an unknown at the time. Ken Clarke was another candidate at that contest, and he would have nailed Brown in 2010.
Totally unfit and those craven muppets knew it and still elected him unopposed.
@Andrew_ComRes: ComRes / IoS / S Mirror: net econ trust in Ed M and B -38 (-10), in Cam & Osb -27 (-6) http://t.co/Pq1vPfV6zr