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  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited August 2019
    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
  • We all know how this goes in the cricket. Convicts get 250-300, England collapse against the spinning ball.
  • So when can we start burning Catholics?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    We all know how this goes in the cricket. Convicts get 250-300, England collapse against the spinning ball.

    Worth noting that we ARE in the lead, despite this collapse.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    Good job England bat deep....

    The only depth in our batting is how far they're out of it against the moving ball.
    I was right, we’re doomed.
    Without a significant first innings lead, England will lose badly as the pitch deteriorates.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
  • So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Surely pineapple pizza eaters are first, closely followed by those that think prosecco should be served with Christmas dinner.
  • Byronic said:

    We all know how this goes in the cricket. Convicts get 250-300, England collapse against the spinning ball.

    Worth noting that we ARE in the lead, despite this collapse.
    On this pitch, England need to be 100+ ahead.
  • justin124 said:

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
    Nonsense, Labour's manifesto however will include a commitment to burning Jews.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    justin124 said:

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
    There’s surely only so far they can go to suck up to the DUP
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    It's amazing how the most ardent europhiles don't understand the essential way the EU works. The EU is like the British Raj, it rules a vast space with relatively few people, because it allows the locals to rule themselves - as long as they apply imperial law.

    i.e. EU law is enforced by British courts, and British police, and British politicians, in Britain, on British people. In that sense the entire British state is employed by the EU, because EU law is supreme in Britain.
    I see you're struggling with that Remainer thing, again. ;)

    The point at odds was the OP's description of "vast bureaucracy". Which it isn't; we are agreed on that much.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Surely pineapple pizza eaters are first, closely followed by those that think prosecco should be served with Christmas dinner.
    Fifteen minutes ago Australia were 7/1 against for the win. Not any more.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    justin124 said:

    IanB2 said:

    While Corbyn is unlikely to lose his seat, the broader truth is that the LD revival is going to hit Labour hardest in London. If not in Islington North, there could be some really big majorities overturned elsewhere. It's why the LDs are also right to put their efforts into Uxbridge. The anger at both traditional main parties in this city is palpable.

    More specifically, remainer London - so as well as the SW that the LibDems already hold, the places to watch are Camden, Islington, Haringey, Ealing, Merton, Southwark and Lambeth in particular. I'd also expect an uptick in the West London Boroughs although the LDs have very little presence on the ground in Westminster-Kensington-Hammersmith (or Wandsworth, unless Justine joins).
    I will be surprised if there are any LibDem gains in London at Labour's expense.The 'Tories Little Helpers' message will be deployed effectively when needed.
    We'll have to see whether Labour being the Tories' little no deal Brexit helpers is a strong enough message, for sure.
  • Remember no Jimmy Anderson bowling for England, we're as doomed as the Canadians at Dieppe.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Surely pineapple pizza eaters are first, closely followed by those that think prosecco should be served with Christmas dinner.
    Or Ed Smith?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Remember no Jimmy Anderson bowling for England, we're as doomed as the Canadians at Dieppe.

    The only way we can win from here is if Bancroft is caught with sandpaper down his pants and the ACB forfeit the match in disgust.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Remember no Jimmy Anderson bowling for England, we're as doomed as the Canadians at Dieppe.

    You mean there was someone else fighting the Nazis?

    Actually, if I’m correctly informed, I had a cousin in the Commandos who got back from Dieppe!
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    It's amazing how the most ardent europhiles don't understand the essential way the EU works. The EU is like the British Raj, it rules a vast space with relatively few people, because it allows the locals to rule themselves - as long as they apply imperial law.

    i.e. EU law is enforced by British courts, and British police, and British politicians, in Britain, on British people. In that sense the entire British state is employed by the EU, because EU law is supreme in Britain.
    I see you're struggling with that Remainer thing, again. ;)

    The point at odds was the OP's description of "vast bureaucracy". Which it isn't; we are agreed on that much.
    No, we are not agreed. The EU does have a vast bureaucracy - the civil service and judicial system in each member state, which have to apply the supreme law of the EU.

    The best analogy is again with the British Raj.

    Britain ran 300m Indians with a paltry 20,000 British soldiers and officials (a startling fact which obsessed Stalin, btw). The UK did this by creating a huge civil service OF INDIANS who diligently enforced the supreme law of the British Empire.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Betting Post

    F1: It'll take me a little while to put the blog up but Vettel at 9 each way (third the odds top 3) to 'win' qualifying looks good. He's been very close Friday and Saturday.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    justin124 said:

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
    Nonsense, Labour's manifesto however will include a commitment to burning Jews.
    And who will Boris burn? The Blacks, the Muslims, the Welsh? Though while we're on the subject, aren't the constant references here to the convicts a bit past their time?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    justin124 said:

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
    Nonsense, Labour's manifesto however will include a commitment to burning Jews.
    And who will Boris burn? The Blacks, the Muslims, the Welsh? Though while we're on the subject, aren't the constant references here to the convicts a bit past their time?
    You're implying a level of discrimination I don't recognise in Boris Johnson.

    He'll just burn them all.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Now here's a thing. Will DUP back Johnson on No Deal all the way through October?

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1157605352378122240
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    We will at least get a lead of 30. Probably.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Still no mention of what Boris's better deal will look like. But on the subject of B&R, must all the papers parrot the Tory excuse that their candidate was a convicted expenses cheat? They knew that when they picked him!
  • justin124 said:

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
    Nonsense, Labour's manifesto however will include a commitment to burning Jews.
    And who will Boris burn? The Blacks, the Muslims, the Welsh? Though while we're on the subject, aren't the constant references here to the convicts a bit past their time?
    Well a 1/3 of the team are (at least those are the ones that got caught).
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
    Nonsense, Labour's manifesto however will include a commitment to burning Jews.
    And who will Boris burn? The Blacks, the Muslims, the Welsh? Though while we're on the subject, aren't the constant references here to the convicts a bit past their time?
    You're implying a level of discrimination I don't recognise in Boris Johnson.

    He'll just burn them all.
    I can see the Tory manifesto now - 'The Final Solution'.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    justin124 said:

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
    Nonsense, Labour's manifesto however will include a commitment to burning Jews.
    And who will Boris burn? The Blacks, the Muslims, the Welsh? Though while we're on the subject, aren't the constant references here to the convicts a bit past their time?
    Well a 1/3 of the team are (at least those are the ones that got caught).
    It's a quarter, and it's a bit harsh to call them convicts. Cheating at cricket isn't technically a crime.

    It's Pakistan field an actual convict.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    I am imagining Boris as Henry VIII.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited August 2019

    justin124 said:

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
    Nonsense, Labour's manifesto however will include a commitment to burning Jews.
    And who will Boris burn? The Blacks, the Muslims, the Welsh? Though while we're on the subject, aren't the constant references here to the convicts a bit past their time?
    Well a 1/3 of the team are (at least those are the ones that got caught).
    Sandpaper aside, the convicts thing isn't an insult.

    I know Australia well. Families that can trace a direct convict descent wear it with pride - if they care at all.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    I am imagining Boris as Henry VIII.
    He's got a way to go for that, hasn't he? He's had the two girlfriends but needs at least four more wives.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    justin124 said:

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
    Nonsense, Labour's manifesto however will include a commitment to burning Jews.
    And who will Boris burn? The Blacks, the Muslims, the Welsh? Though while we're on the subject, aren't the constant references here to the convicts a bit past their time?
    It's nothing to the grievous insult of prefacing 'Englanders' with 'little'.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Ooh. We could get 50. 50 would be OK. 60?

    70???

    Fascinatingly tight. One more ball.
  • Chris Woakes' Test batting average has gone above Moeen Ali's
  • Byronic said:

    Ooh. We could get 50. 50 would be OK. 60?

    70???

    Fascinatingly tight. One more ball.

    Still won't be enough.
  • Cricviz has England as 67% to win...hmmm....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Is Anderson able to bat? (And ideally bowl too...)
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Cricviz has England as 67% to win...hmmm....

    England are still faves at the bookies, too.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    I am imagining Boris as Henry VIII.
    He's got a way to go for that, hasn't he? He's had the two girlfriends but needs at least four more wives.
    How many women has Boris gotten pregnant? (No need to be precise, approximate numbers are fine.)
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    I am imagining Boris as Henry VIII.
    Well he’s well on the way as he’s on number three
  • Keeping the Aussies out past lunch is a good thing for morale. Broad used to be a very useful bat. Let’s hope he can whack them round for another 20-30 post lunch.
    Cant see why they would drop him for next test.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
    District Councils empty bins, not Counties.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
    So get rid of ours then problem solved
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    rcs1000 said:

    Is Anderson able to bat? (And ideally bowl too...)

    They've just said he will bat. Promising...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    Fenman said:

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
    District Councils empty bins, not Counties.
    The salient point remains the same.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Fenman said:

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
    District Councils empty bins, not Counties.
    Don't they all subcontract it anyway? How many councils still employ binmen directly?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Byronic said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is Anderson able to bat? (And ideally bowl too...)

    They've just said he will bat. Promising...
    Will he need to? Presumably we'll want to declare 40 minutes before the end of play today.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    rcs1000 said:

    Fenman said:

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
    District Councils empty bins, not Counties.
    Don't they all subcontract it anyway? How many councils still employ binmen directly?
    All authorities in the northeast are in-house.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fenman said:

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
    District Councils empty bins, not Counties.
    Don't they all subcontract it anyway? How many councils still employ binmen directly?
    All authorities in the northeast are in-house.
    There you go. Shows what I know.
  • Labour selection for Birkenhead

    Mick Whitley 224 votes
    Tony Norbury 116
    Danielle Cornish Spencer 52
    Helen Robinson 39


    https://www.mickwhitleyforbirkenhead.com
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
    But there must be some pretty significant economies of scale from doing things once in Brussels rather than 28 times around the continent.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fenman said:

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
    District Councils empty bins, not Counties.
    Don't they all subcontract it anyway? How many councils still employ binmen directly?
    All authorities in the northeast are in-house.
    So is ours (Mid Essex)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fenman said:

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
    District Councils empty bins, not Counties.
    Don't they all subcontract it anyway? How many councils still employ binmen directly?
    All authorities in the northeast are in-house.
    There you go. Shows what I know.
    Although, uniquely, the northeast has no two-tier authorities. Not sure if that has any bearing on anything, mind.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    I agree with @rcs1000 upthread.

    I want to support the Lib Dems, I *do* support the Lib Dems, but they need to get their shit together. There is no time to lose.

    They need to be hammering just two messages:

    1. Labour is enabling a No Deal Brexit

    2. Lib Dem’s single minded policy is to enable a government of national unity which will call a referendum on an impartial, fully and fairly explained “Remain” and “Brexit”.

    Oh and they need to junk the university fees, or find some other formula that means we are not saddling an entire generation with debts of up to £100k upon graduation. It’s their Clause 4.

    This may prove to be the most significant Lib Dem news for a while, aside from the obvious:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/blair-and-clinton-strategist-stan-greenberg-switches-to-help-lib-dems-get-elected-gg2qv3jtc

    “A political strategist who worked for Bill Clinton and Tony Blair has switched sides to help the Liberal Democrats prepare for the next election. Stan Greenberg said he was a Labour supporter “in my bones”, but accused Jeremy Corbyn of “dithering” over Brexit. The veteran pollster, 74, last week met a group of senior Liberal Democrats in London. The pro-Remain party is keen to capitalise on its success in the European elections.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    So when can we start burning Catholics?

    Doubtless that will be in the Tory Manifesto.
    Nonsense, Labour's manifesto however will include a commitment to burning Jews.
    And who will Boris burn? The Blacks, the Muslims, the Welsh? Though while we're on the subject, aren't the constant references here to the convicts a bit past their time?
    You're implying a level of discrimination I don't recognise in Boris Johnson.

    He'll just burn them all.
    I can see the Tory manifesto now - 'The Final Solution'.
    Surely that’s a Labour policy?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    edited August 2019
    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, you're Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!

    Edited for poor English.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited August 2019

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.

    Edit - if he wanted to make a pointed comment about his late wife he would of course be better off using his third name.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Then civil wars, revolution, interegnum, restoration and invitation of the Dutch and Germans to take over running the country...
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 507
    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    And we still have a civil war to look forward to. Although you could argue this time we had that first...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    edited August 2019
    OT. League One is a shambles this season. Bolton deducted 12 points, with another deduction for failing to play a match to come. 3 senior outfield players for today. Bury's first 2 games cancelled, and 12 deducted too. Serious doubts if they will start the season. And Coventry homeless and playing at Birmingham City.
    Good job it is 4 down and not 3.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    dixiedean said:

    OT. League One is a shambles this season. Bolton deducted 12 points, with another deduction for failing to play a match to come. 3 senior outfield players for today. Bury's first 2 games cancelled, and 12 deducted too. Serious doubts if they will start the season. And Coventry homeless and playing at Birmingham City.
    Good job it is 4 down and not 3.

    And I think thought Yeovil Town were in a mess!
  • dixiedean said:

    OT. League One is a shambles this season. Bolton deducted 12 points, with another deduction for failing to play a match to come. 3 senior outfield players for today. Bury's first 2 games cancelled, and 12 deducted too. Serious doubts if they will start the season. And Coventry homeless and playing at Birmingham City.
    Good job it is 4 down and not 3.

    The efl really needs to sort out the fit and proper persons rules. It is a disgrace.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    In current circumstance the regnal name Philip might be appropriate. Was Mary I's husband ever crowned in England?
  • Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
  • Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
    As long as they are creaming off the top they will be but that club is in so much debt it is untrue

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
    As long as they are creaming off the top they will be but that club is in so much debt it is untrue

    The finance structure of football in this country is a disgrace. If Priti Patel wants to look for criminals........
  • Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
    As long as they are creaming off the top they will be but that club is in so much debt it is untrue

    The finance structure of football in this country is a disgrace. If Priti Patel wants to look for criminals........
    Good call. And as for Real Madrid......

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
    As long as they are creaming off the top they will be but that club is in so much debt it is untrue

    The finance structure of football in this country is a disgrace. If Priti Patel wants to look for criminals........
    Good call. And as for Real Madrid......

    Pirates of the Spanish Main come to mind?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    In current circumstance the regnal name Philip might be appropriate. Was Mary I's husband ever crowned in England?

    They were declared joint monarchs (of England, France, Ireland, Naples, Spain and Jerusalem to be exact) and coins were struck in their names. I own one of them.

    Whether he was ever formally crowned as King of England and Ireland I don't know.

    He certainly made no attempt to carry on as King in his own right after Mary's death, which would perhaps indicate not.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
    As long as they are creaming off the top they will be but that club is in so much debt it is untrue

    That was at the root of Bolton's problems. Massive debt, easily serviceable whilst in the PL...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    Cricket started again. Given the effect of Lyon, wonder what Ali and Root can do on a pitch which appears to be turning quite a lot.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    If we could just scrape and scramble to a lead of 80....

    I had forgotten what fun a good, close Test match can be.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    ydoethur said:

    In current circumstance the regnal name Philip might be appropriate. Was Mary I's husband ever crowned in England?

    They were declared joint monarchs (of England, France, Ireland, Naples, Spain and Jerusalem to be exact) and coins were struck in their names. I own one of them.

    Whether he was ever formally crowned as King of England and Ireland I don't know.

    He certainly made no attempt to carry on as King in his own right after Mary's death, which would perhaps indicate not.
    My old college, Trinity Oxford, was founded in 1555 and has the conjoined arms of Mary & Philip over the fireplace in hall. It’s a pretty Anglo-Catholic foundation historically - see Rees-Mogg, Jacob.
  • dixiedean said:

    Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
    As long as they are creaming off the top they will be but that club is in so much debt it is untrue

    That was at the root of Bolton's problems. Massive debt, easily serviceable whilst in the PL...
    Man Utd dropped out in the 70’s. Not inconceivable it could happen again. Then something may get done
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
    He could do worse than Charles II though. He had a reasonably good record in reconciling a deeply divided Kingdom.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    dixiedean said:

    Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
    As long as they are creaming off the top they will be but that club is in so much debt it is untrue

    That was at the root of Bolton's problems. Massive debt, easily serviceable whilst in the PL...
    Man Utd dropped out in the 70’s. Not inconceivable it could happen again. Then something may get done
    Dropped out of the top level perhaps. Don't recall them ever dropping right out and fighting their way back a la a Rangers.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited August 2019
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
    He could do worse than Charles II though. He had a reasonably good record in reconciling a deeply divided Kingdom.
    David Starkey wrote a piece in the Telegraph, comparing Boris, in character, to the Merry Monarch. Quite astute, I reckon.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/13/priapic-emotional-desperate-unite-nation-boris-truly-modern/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,264

    IanB2 said:

    Utterly deluded. These people are off their heads with this nonsense. They just can't accept a modern, interconnected world.
    Do we need a vast bureaucracy and power exercised so remotely in a modern, interconnect world? The idea is so 20th century as to seem quaint.
    Surrey County Council employs more people than the EU
    Surrey county council employs 23,000 people. The EU employs 55,000 people. Basic innacuracy excepted though, your point is well made (though it possibly says more about Surrey County Council than the EU). But county councils at least have to empty the bins and the like. In an age where even modern hotels have one person who acts as receptionist, bar person etc., I see the political and legal structures of the EU sitting atop our national ones to be deeply wasteful and anachronistic.
    I expect that - notwithstanding 60% fewer staff - the EU still has a higher total salary bill :-).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
    He could do worse than Charles II though. He had a reasonably good record in reconciling a deeply divided Kingdom.
    And shagging everything with a vagina.

    And, of course, the last king to prorogue Parliament and rule directly, although people often forget that.

    And leaving a major succession crisis that erupted into civil war in two years and revolution followed by war in Ireland in three.

    Apart from that, he was a dazzling success.

    (Fun fact - if he becomes King, William will be the first descendant of Charles II to be King.)
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Australia out to 10/3 again, for any England fans who want an emotional hedge.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
    He could do worse than Charles II though. He had a reasonably good record in reconciling a deeply divided Kingdom.
    The regicides were nearly all chased down and executed though. Some, like Cromwell, after they'd died!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Byronic said:

    Australia out to 10/3 again, for any England fans who want an emotional hedge.

    If Australia get to 10/3 in their second innings I shall be very happy but also very surprised.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534

    I agree with @rcs1000 upthread.

    I want to support the Lib Dems, I *do* support the Lib Dems, but they need to get their shit together. There is no time to lose.

    They need to be hammering just two messages:

    1. Labour is enabling a No Deal Brexit

    2. Lib Dem’s single minded policy is to enable a government of national unity which will call a referendum on an impartial, fully and fairly explained “Remain” and “Brexit”.

    Oh and they need to junk the university fees, or find some other formula that means we are not saddling an entire generation with debts of up to £100k upon graduation. It’s their Clause 4.

    If youre looking for clarity you're looking in the wrong place (except on Brexit). Work with Labour? Well, maybe. But not a coalition. Well, not with Corbyn. Work with the Tories? Well, not over Brexit. With Boris? Well, it hasn't come up. Austerity? Was a good thing, but maybe too much. Time to stop it anyway. Well, within reason.

    I don't dislike the LibDems. Hell, I'm in coalition with them. But if you rely on them to do anything in particular nationally, you're building on sand.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
    He could do worse than Charles II though. He had a reasonably good record in reconciling a deeply divided Kingdom.
    The regicides were nearly all chased down and executed though. Some, like Cromwell, after they'd died!
    If you are going to be executed, that is probably the best time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited August 2019

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
    He could do worse than Charles II though. He had a reasonably good record in reconciling a deeply divided Kingdom.
    The regicides were nearly all chased down and executed though. Some, like Cromwell, after they'd died!
    If you are going to be executed, that is probably the best time.
    That is unarguable logic.

    Henry V was the best one. After one of his friends rebelled against him, he gave him a fair trial.

    But it was five months after the friend in question had been hanged.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    I agree with @rcs1000 upthread.

    I want to support the Lib Dems, I *do* support the Lib Dems, but they need to get their shit together. There is no time to lose.

    They need to be hammering just two messages:

    1. Labour is enabling a No Deal Brexit

    2. Lib Dem’s single minded policy is to enable a government of national unity which will call a referendum on an impartial, fully and fairly explained “Remain” and “Brexit”.

    Oh and they need to junk the university fees, or find some other formula that means we are not saddling an entire generation with debts of up to £100k upon graduation. It’s their Clause 4.

    If youre looking for clarity you're looking in the wrong place (except on Brexit). Work with Labour? Well, maybe. But not a coalition. Well, not with Corbyn. Work with the Tories? Well, not over Brexit. With Boris? Well, it hasn't come up. Austerity? Was a good thing, but maybe too much. Time to stop it anyway. Well, within reason.

    I don't dislike the LibDems. Hell, I'm in coalition with them. But if you rely on them to do anything in particular nationally, you're building on sand.
    But the Lib Dems really will deliver a 2nd referendum, and really will campaign hard for Remain, if they ever get a sniff of power.

    For millions of Brits, that is all that matters, all that will matter, for years to come.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    dixiedean said:

    Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
    As long as they are creaming off the top they will be but that club is in so much debt it is untrue

    That was at the root of Bolton's problems. Massive debt, easily serviceable whilst in the PL...
    Man Utd dropped out in the 70’s. Not inconceivable it could happen again. Then something may get done
    Dropping out is fine, as long as you get back before the parachute money ends, as Newcastle and West Ham have proved more than once. It is if you don't, and, even worse, fall into the third a la Leeds. Now Bolton. Nowt will get done.
  • Convicts cheating again...

    Steve Smith is fairly blatantly the man setting the field for Australia at the moment. He is still banned by Cricket Australia from holding a leadership position for another year.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Convicts cheating again...

    Steve Smith is fairly blatantly the man setting the field for Australia at the moment. He is still banned by Cricket Australia from holding a leadership position for another year.

    If he's going to set them so the number 10 can put in any half century stand, let's not complain.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Convicts cheating again...

    Steve Smith is fairly blatantly the man setting the field for Australia at the moment. He is still banned by Cricket Australia from holding a leadership position for another year.

    Yes. And the camera always switches to him as if he is the captain. It's quite telling. Tsk.
  • ydoethur said:

    Convicts cheating again...

    Steve Smith is fairly blatantly the man setting the field for Australia at the moment. He is still banned by Cricket Australia from holding a leadership position for another year.

    If he's going to set them so the number 10 can put in any half century stand, let's not complain.
    Lock him up, lock him up....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    edited August 2019

    I agree with @rcs1000 upthread.

    I want to support the Lib Dems, I *do* support the Lib Dems, but they need to get their shit together. There is no time to lose.

    They need to be hammering just two messages:

    1. Labour is enabling a No Deal Brexit

    2. Lib Dem’s single minded policy is to enable a government of national unity which will call a referendum on an impartial, fully and fairly explained “Remain” and “Brexit”.

    Oh and they need to junk the university fees, or find some other formula that means we are not saddling an entire generation with debts of up to £100k upon graduation. It’s their Clause 4.

    If youre looking for clarity you're looking in the wrong place (except on Brexit). Work with Labour? Well, maybe. But not a coalition. Well, not with Corbyn. Work with the Tories? Well, not over Brexit. With Boris? Well, it hasn't come up. Austerity? Was a good thing, but maybe too much. Time to stop it anyway. Well, within reason.

    I don't dislike the LibDems. Hell, I'm in coalition with them. But if you rely on them to do anything in particular nationally, you're building on sand.
    I don't think Clegg managed his side of the coalition well. Apart from anything else he assumed that Cameron was an honourable man.

    Anyway I'm off. Need some fresh air. It's either our local Second XI cricket team or our local non-league side's pre-season friendly.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
    As long as they are creaming off the top they will be but that club is in so much debt it is untrue

    That was at the root of Bolton's problems. Massive debt, easily serviceable whilst in the PL...
    Man Utd dropped out in the 70’s. Not inconceivable it could happen again. Then something may get done
    Dropping out is fine, as long as you get back before the parachute money ends, as Newcastle and West Ham have proved more than once. It is if you don't, and, even worse, fall into the third a la Leeds. Now Bolton. Nowt will get done.
    True

This discussion has been closed.